You mean the post apocalyptic show where technology was destroyed by EMPs, but everyone had working, brand bew SUVs (with a bit of mud swiped on the hood to make it look post apocalyptic), cell phones, Macs, motorcycles, etc? The one with freakin' Vincent from Beauty and the Beast? The one with the genetically enhanced girl that can inexplicably leap over a 20ft fence? Who's rent-a-womb mother (with no genetic link to her) looks exactly like her?
The show with a hot chick that goes in heat?
That wasn't a quality show, that was a hot chick vehicle, there's a difference. The chick was hot, the show was not.
I like that too, gives it that extra "ship at sea" feel that a lot of sci-fi doesn't have (because you can't have shows upon shows where they dont land anywhere).
The only character I never "believed" was Jane. Joss has a hard time writing thugs because I don't think he knows enough of them;-) but the actor did a fine job.
Funny, I think he's one of the most believable characters. The actor does a fine job playing him because, well, he ALWAYS plays military types. Hell, this guy feels like Animal Mother (from Full Metal Jacket, played by him also) just enrolled on a spaceship after 'nam... I love how he starts off as a simple thug but then shows different aspects of his brutish personality. He's brave in a fight but cowardly at times, he doesn't want others to know he's a thief, a backstabber... He feels shame, he feels remorse. He's a horrible human being, but he's still a human being (granted, he wouldn't be this human if Mal wasn't there to give lessons in criminal decency)....the man they call...Jayne... : )
I think you meant Mal, as is captain Malcom Reynolds...
FireFly is the realised version of a western in space Kevin Sorbo always wanted the Andromeda show to be.
And I'm sorry, but Sorbo wanted it to be "Hercules...in space!".
Also, comparing Andromeda to Firefly is unfair. The only similarity is that they both (add Farscape to that to make it 3) were comfortable with campyness. Andromeda by being cheap and using campyness as an excuse to not make efforts (IMO, my wrasslin loving freinds liked it), Firefly by going all the way with the space western motif (they had a cargo of cows, making them officially cowboys), and Farscape with the muppets and the sexy alien space monsters (which are campy, but enjoyable). : )
Lest everyone forgets about the battle we are fighting let me remind that he is not "contributing years of effort to our cultural heritage", but to the profits of rapacious corporations, thanks to all the copyright extensions and the comatose public domain.
Well, if and when this battle is won, then the work will still be there, taken from the hands of its opressor and given back to the public to whom it shall one day rightfully belong.
In the meantime I agree with the basic premise of author's rights that it should be controlled by the creator or someone whom the creator chooses for a few dozen years. Lest parasites profit from the creative efforts of others.
Carbon is a conductor of electricity, I'd be a bit worried about carbon pellets, or at the very least dust being left in the case and possible shorting something out. Plus it's messy as hell.
The things I'm talking about are consummer stuff you'll find in hardware stores. They comes in a small sealed plastic container, you open the container and leave the things lying around in their opened container in the area where the offending odor is found.
Used these when my basement smelled of sewer (drainage pipe to the sewer let in the smell, the solution was these things and regularly pouring water in the drain so the U bend would fill and not let air up).
I've only seen the TV trailers, but I get the distinct impression that the Miyazaki film "Castle in the Sky" served as the inspiration for the visuals. Not only in the blimp-battleships, but also those walking robots
Or they both could have been inspired by 1930's and 40's blimp battleships and robots.
Tentacle arms on giant walking machines are described as far back as The War Of The Worlds, a book from the 19th century!
Not sayin' he ain't a Miyazaki fan and he did not take any inspiration from it (I don't know that), just pointing out that his inspirations definatly go farther back than the 80's.... and that you need to broaden your pop culture background : )
Of course as other fans of the genre said, it might be nice to see the world again where the future is optimistic, and there are genuine heroes.
Exactly, I love gritty postmodern tales of a dark future where science and technology have screwed us all, but I need the occasional retro modern optimistic sense of wonder and exitement of the prospects of the future. : )
I hope so, hope that you're not really this dense is what kept me from listing you as a foe...maybe you're having a bad day or something.
I am not posting to declare a hatred for this movie, but rather a lament for the fact that it could have been so much more.
Lamenting what it is while expressing a wish that it were something entirely different, especially since you have apparently not seen it, ishatred (prejudiced hostility). Have you seen it yet? If not, then do not claim that it could have been anyting. It will be something, and you are not in a position to judge what that is yet.
So many times I have gone to the movies this year to be viscerally amazed, but mentally repulsed.
Keep your bile for what caused it. Don't spread it over the innocent. If you were foolish enough to spend money on I Robot or Alien VS Predator, I can understand that you would have some pent up anger, but keep it focused on those who irked you, don't lash out at others.
As for the plot, why does a movie with special effects have to be a pulp?
You are approching this completly backwards. Its not a movie with SFX that has to be a pulp; Its a pulp movie that has to have SFX.
Why not run with the great effects and make a movie like Minority Report?
Because that movie was already made? Why do you object to people making the storie they want to make? He started this with a mac in his house. You don't like it? Buy a mac, make your own instead of attacking his movie, without even having seen it no less! If you have a movie in your head you want to see on a screen, make it instead of demanding that others refrain from making theirs in order to make what you want to see.
God I can't stand that attitude! He's not taking anything away from you! He's making something new, he's contributing years of effort to our cultural heritage, and you sit there complaining that he spent these years making something he likes instead of something you like. Sheesh.
Then you should rather enjoy the adventures ofTom Strong, from America's Best Comics. Very good pulp.
I have a strong feeling that this movie is based more on the modern steampunk and Sons of Ether (a la White Wolf's Mage) genre. A modern retake on an era
There is a vocabulary used to discuss and analyse art, and by extension science fiction, that uses the words "modern" and "postmodern" that you might or might not be aware of. I don't want to go into a lenghty explanation of the differences, but basically, postmodern sci-fi is darker and recycles elements of past stories.
Yes, "modern" means "contemporary", but art gave it another meaning:
modern artistic or literary philosophy and practice; especially : a self-conscious break with the past and a search for new forms of expression
And by opposition:
Main Entry: postmodern
Pronunciation: "pOs(t)-'mä-d&rn, ÷-'mä-d(&-)r&n Function: adjective : of, relating to, or being any of several movements (as in art, architecture, or literature) that are reactions against the philosophy and practices of modern movements and are typically marked by revival of traditional elements and techniques
The fun with sky captain is that it looks like its got the retro modern feel to it: A sense of adventure and wonder, as opposed to the post modern weariness (post as in after that era of "modernism"... using the word "modern" to refer to the past can be confusing, I know).
So Sky Captain and Tom Strong are both postmodern, but they seek to reanimate the feel of their inspiration's modern attitude (the "gee whiz" feeling of the newness of things that are now retro to us).
Conran's groundbreaking film The plot, which hurtles across maps of the world Indiana Jones style, definitely take a back seat to the effects. The character interactions are all predictable. But all of that is consistent with the genre
Special effects are not ground-breaking.
Why not? There's no SFX ground to break? Or does this not constitute a ground-breaking level of SFX achievement according to you?
Give me a movie with effects like these and a plot that doesn't insult me.
The plot insults you? WTF?
Its a pulp! I love these! Indiana Jones, Tom Strong, and now Sky Captain. I'm happy. If you don't like pulps, that's your loss, but to say that it insults you...that's something else.
Suppose we were discussing Adolf Hitler and I told you that: 3. He conquered most of Europe. These are historically verifiable facts
I would inform you that CONQUER implies gaining mastery of the territory in question. What he did was invade most of Europe, and then had it taken away from him.
[Moore] shows the portions of interviews and events that support his goal. It's not 'spin' or 'bias'. A half truth is a full lie.
Well, I agree that he only shows the part that support his point. But I don't think that is the same as a lie, not in his context. Its not the most honest thing he could do, but he's honest about his goals. He flat out says he wants to bring Bush down, so you know you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.
And say what you will, but the man makes entertaining flicks.
I get roasted by "hard core fans" on a regular basis for saying this, but DS9 was the best of all the Trek series. Moreover, a large part of why it was the best is because it goes directly against Roddenberry's utopianism. None of the characters are the shiny perfect people from TNG, Earth is explicitly portrayed as not a paradise, religion was handled pretty realistically, and technobabble rarely saved the day.
It wasn't Star Trek then. Its not the best Star Trek series at all, its the first fraud. Abusing the name to draw in the fans, but it was actually something else.
That is why the "hard core fans" bash you about it. You applaud the deceit of passing an imposture for what they loved.
(Now Gredo and Han shoot at the SAME time!) What are Star Wars nerds gonna bitch about now?!
Greedo shot first!?
Screw this, I'm not giving him money for the Speical Dinosaur Editio of these films. He's gone crazy but his marketing department is as agressive as ever...
Yes, though I have nothing agaisnt the actor, he made a fine bad guy in Starship Mine (the Picard Die-Hard), and he was a non-obtrusive extra in one of the movies...6 or 7... The character was a mess, however.
Sisko wasn't overly violent.
Punched Q in the face! Q! Right in the face!
The bloke played by OCP's #2 (robocop) makes Sisko look positive tame.
Dunno who you're referring to (well, I remember Robocop, I don't remember him in ST).
But if your point is that violence is a trait that is not race-specific in ST, you are right. However, I believe the number of out of controll violent black characters is disproportionate to the number of like-minded caucasian characters (there's a bigger percentage of violent black characters than violent white characters).
a software-only construct that was not even embodied demanding the same rights and exhibiting the same creative powers as humans.
I'm sorry, but holograms need a holo matrix, power to run the matrix, engineers to maintain the matrix, computer space and processing to house and run the AI, etc.
I found the Captain, the Doctor, Tom Paris, Neelix, Harry Kim, Tuvok, Belanna - ALL of them were more "human" to me than any characters in the previous series.
That is part of the problem. Tuvok was much too human. Spock was haf human, he had an excuse for his human-like behaviour, Tuvok, on the other hand...
Hell, not only do they feel he need for tokenism to the point of giving alien species our races (yuck), but they throw in racial clichés with it as well! Tuvok, after 28 years of seeing Vulcans, from scientists to security guards to ambassadors, all of a sudden, there's a african-american-vulcan. That's just plain stupid, but to add to it, he's the first violent and impulsive Vulcan (outside of Pon Farr)! Jeez, way to drag racist preconceptions to the stars Berman! Much like Sisko was violent and impulsive. In Berman's Star Trek, if you're black, you're violent and impulsve. Pisses me off...
Kes wasn't one of the characters I was particularly interested in.
She was lame and they replaced her with a different babe.
Slashdot Mirror
You obviouslyt watched it. - more than once
I cant have been that bad...
She's really hot.
If that doesn't scream either hobbit or smurf to you, then you are crazy.
;-)
Smurfs live in hollowed-out mushrooms.
The kind of mushrooms the creator took before he came up with the concept I believe
The only way to be safe is to be underground.
Unless there's a flood, and/or an earthquake...
Dark Angel (a quality show)
You mean the post apocalyptic show where technology was destroyed by EMPs, but everyone had working, brand bew SUVs (with a bit of mud swiped on the hood to make it look post apocalyptic), cell phones, Macs, motorcycles, etc?
The one with freakin' Vincent from Beauty and the Beast?
The one with the genetically enhanced girl that can inexplicably leap over a 20ft fence? Who's rent-a-womb mother (with no genetic link to her) looks exactly like her?
The show with a hot chick that goes in heat?
That wasn't a quality show, that was a hot chick vehicle, there's a difference. The chick was hot, the show was not.
Sorbo wanted Dylan to be a less ambiguous, more straightforward character. (Mr. T also only wanted to play overt good guys.
Hey now, don't drag Mr. T into this : )
: )
the scarcity of fresh vegetables
;-) but the actor did a fine job.
...the man they call...Jayne...
I like that too, gives it that extra "ship at sea" feel that a lot of sci-fi doesn't have (because you can't have shows upon shows where they dont land anywhere).
The only character I never "believed" was Jane. Joss has a hard time writing thugs because I don't think he knows enough of them
Funny, I think he's one of the most believable characters.
The actor does a fine job playing him because, well, he ALWAYS plays military types. Hell, this guy feels like Animal Mother (from Full Metal Jacket, played by him also) just enrolled on a spaceship after 'nam...
I love how he starts off as a simple thug but then shows different aspects of his brutish personality. He's brave in a fight but cowardly at times, he doesn't want others to know he's a thief, a backstabber... He feels shame, he feels remorse. He's a horrible human being, but he's still a human being (granted, he wouldn't be this human if Mal wasn't there to give lessons in criminal decency).
: )
Matt --> Dylan
I think you meant Mal, as is captain Malcom Reynolds...
FireFly is the realised version of a western in space Kevin Sorbo always wanted the Andromeda show to be.
And I'm sorry, but Sorbo wanted it to be "Hercules...in space!".
Also, comparing Andromeda to Firefly is unfair. The only similarity is that they both (add Farscape to that to make it 3) were comfortable with campyness. Andromeda by being cheap and using campyness as an excuse to not make efforts (IMO, my wrasslin loving freinds liked it), Firefly by going all the way with the space western motif (they had a cargo of cows, making them officially cowboys), and Farscape with the muppets and the sexy alien space monsters (which are campy, but enjoyable).
: )
Lest everyone forgets about the battle we are fighting let me remind that he is not "contributing years of effort to our cultural heritage", but to the profits of rapacious corporations, thanks to all the copyright extensions and the comatose public domain.
Well, if and when this battle is won, then the work will still be there, taken from the hands of its opressor and given back to the public to whom it shall one day rightfully belong.
In the meantime I agree with the basic premise of author's rights that it should be controlled by the creator or someone whom the creator chooses for a few dozen years. Lest parasites profit from the creative efforts of others.
Carbon is a conductor of electricity, I'd be a bit worried about carbon pellets, or at the very least dust being left in the case and possible shorting something out. Plus it's messy as hell.
The things I'm talking about are consummer stuff you'll find in hardware stores. They comes in a small sealed plastic container, you open the container and leave the things lying around in their opened container in the area where the offending odor is found.
Used these when my basement smelled of sewer (drainage pipe to the sewer let in the smell, the solution was these things and regularly pouring water in the drain so the U bend would fill and not let air up).
Off course, they don't last forever...
There are activated carbon pellets that are designed to absorb odors. They do a pretty nice job of it.
I suggest cleaning up the equippement as best you can and then placing a few of these in or around the offending hardware.
I've only seen the TV trailers, but I get the distinct impression that the Miyazaki film "Castle in the Sky" served as the inspiration for the visuals. Not only in the blimp-battleships, but also those walking robots
Or they both could have been inspired by 1930's and 40's blimp battleships and robots.
The Superman Cartoons from the 40's also have giant robots who's arm are wings. Who show up, take what they came for and leave without a trace.
Tentacle arms on giant walking machines are described as far back as The War Of The Worlds, a book from the 19th century!
Not sayin' he ain't a Miyazaki fan and he did not take any inspiration from it (I don't know that), just pointing out that his inspirations definatly go farther back than the 80's.... and that you need to broaden your pop culture background : )
if every movie was matrix-quality
I would settle for every Matrix movie to be Matrix-quality.
Alas its only one out of three : (
Fallout. Game looked incredibly silly, but was one of the best RPG's ever (and it was also a '1940s post appocalyptic world' genre
50's
Of course as other fans of the genre said, it might be nice to see the world again where the future is optimistic, and there are genuine heroes.
Exactly, I love gritty postmodern tales of a dark future where science and technology have screwed us all, but I need the occasional retro modern optimistic sense of wonder and exitement of the prospects of the future.
: )
You are getting me all wrong.
I hope so, hope that you're not really this dense is what kept me from listing you as a foe...maybe you're having a bad day or something.
I am not posting to declare a hatred for this movie, but rather a lament for the fact that it could have been so much more.
Lamenting what it is while expressing a wish that it were something entirely different, especially since you have apparently not seen it, is hatred (prejudiced hostility).
Have you seen it yet? If not, then do not claim that it could have been anyting. It will be something, and you are not in a position to judge what that is yet.
So many times I have gone to the movies this year to be viscerally amazed, but mentally repulsed.
Keep your bile for what caused it. Don't spread it over the innocent.
If you were foolish enough to spend money on I Robot or Alien VS Predator, I can understand that you would have some pent up anger, but keep it focused on those who irked you, don't lash out at others.
As for the plot, why does a movie with special effects have to be a pulp?
You are approching this completly backwards.
Its not a movie with SFX that has to be a pulp; Its a pulp movie that has to have SFX.
Why not run with the great effects and make a movie like Minority Report?
Because that movie was already made?
Why do you object to people making the storie they want to make? He started this with a mac in his house. You don't like it? Buy a mac, make your own instead of attacking his movie, without even having seen it no less!
If you have a movie in your head you want to see on a screen, make it instead of demanding that others refrain from making theirs in order to make what you want to see.
God I can't stand that attitude! He's not taking anything away from you!
He's making something new, he's contributing years of effort to our cultural heritage, and you sit there complaining that he spent these years making something he likes instead of something you like.
Sheesh.
Then you should rather enjoy the adventures ofTom Strong, from America's Best Comics. Very good pulp.
I have a strong feeling that this movie is based more on the modern steampunk and Sons of Ether (a la White Wolf's Mage) genre. A modern retake on an era
There is a vocabulary used to discuss and analyse art, and by extension science fiction, that uses the words "modern" and "postmodern" that you might or might not be aware of.
I don't want to go into a lenghty explanation of the differences, but basically, postmodern sci-fi is darker and recycles elements of past stories.
Yes, "modern" means "contemporary", but art gave it another meaning:
And by opposition:
The fun with sky captain is that it looks like its got the retro modern feel to it: A sense of adventure and wonder, as opposed to the post modern weariness (post as in after that era of "modernism"
So Sky Captain and Tom Strong are both postmodern, but they seek to reanimate the feel of their inspiration's modern attitude (the "gee whiz" feeling of the newness of things that are now retro to us).
Special effects are not ground-breaking.
Why not? There's no SFX ground to break? Or does this not constitute a ground-breaking level of SFX achievement according to you?
Give me a movie with effects like these and a plot that doesn't insult me.
The plot insults you? WTF?
Its a pulp! I love these! Indiana Jones, Tom Strong, and now Sky Captain. I'm happy.
If you don't like pulps, that's your loss, but to say that it insults you...that's something else.
Suppose we were discussing Adolf Hitler and I told you that:
3. He conquered most of Europe.
These are historically verifiable facts
I would inform you that CONQUER implies gaining mastery of the territory in question.
What he did was invade most of Europe, and then had it taken away from him.
[Moore] shows the portions of interviews and events that support his goal. It's not 'spin' or 'bias'. A half truth is a full lie.
Well, I agree that he only shows the part that support his point. But I don't think that is the same as a lie, not in his context. Its not the most honest thing he could do, but he's honest about his goals. He flat out says he wants to bring Bush down, so you know you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.
And say what you will, but the man makes entertaining flicks.
I get roasted by "hard core fans" on a regular basis for saying this, but DS9 was the best of all the Trek series. Moreover, a large part of why it was the best is because it goes directly against Roddenberry's utopianism. None of the characters are the shiny perfect people from TNG, Earth is explicitly portrayed as not a paradise, religion was handled pretty realistically, and technobabble rarely saved the day.
It wasn't Star Trek then.
Its not the best Star Trek series at all, its the first fraud. Abusing the name to draw in the fans, but it was actually something else.
That is why the "hard core fans" bash you about it. You applaud the deceit of passing an imposture for what they loved.
Good point. He was just playing along...
Good point, I had completely forgotten about the context.
(Now Gredo and Han shoot at the SAME time!) What are Star Wars nerds gonna bitch about now?!
Greedo shot first!?
Screw this, I'm not giving him money for the Speical Dinosaur Editio of these films. He's gone crazy but his marketing department is as agressive as ever...
Tuvok was clearly miscast and badly written.
Yes, though I have nothing agaisnt the actor, he made a fine bad guy in Starship Mine (the Picard Die-Hard), and he was a non-obtrusive extra in one of the movies...6 or 7...
The character was a mess, however.
Sisko wasn't overly violent.
Punched Q in the face! Q! Right in the face!
The bloke played by OCP's #2 (robocop) makes Sisko look positive tame.
Dunno who you're referring to (well, I remember Robocop, I don't remember him in ST).
But if your point is that violence is a trait that is not race-specific in ST, you are right.
However, I believe the number of out of controll violent black characters is disproportionate to the number of like-minded caucasian characters (there's a bigger percentage of violent black characters than violent white characters).
a software-only construct that was not even embodied demanding the same rights and exhibiting the same creative powers as humans.
I'm sorry, but holograms need a holo matrix, power to run the matrix, engineers to maintain the matrix, computer space and processing to house and run the AI, etc.
I found the Captain, the Doctor, Tom Paris, Neelix, Harry Kim, Tuvok, Belanna - ALL of them were more "human" to me than any characters in the previous series.
That is part of the problem.
Tuvok was much too human. Spock was haf human, he had an excuse for his human-like behaviour, Tuvok, on the other hand...
Hell, not only do they feel he need for tokenism to the point of giving alien species our races (yuck), but they throw in racial clichés with it as well!
Tuvok, after 28 years of seeing Vulcans, from scientists to security guards to ambassadors, all of a sudden, there's a african-american-vulcan. That's just plain stupid, but to add to it, he's the first violent and impulsive Vulcan (outside of Pon Farr)! Jeez, way to drag racist preconceptions to the stars Berman!
Much like Sisko was violent and impulsive. In Berman's Star Trek, if you're black, you're violent and impulsve. Pisses me off...
Kes wasn't one of the characters I was particularly interested in.
She was lame and they replaced her with a different babe.