The article is a little vague on the tank topic. A water cooling system has to pump water somewhere in order to move the heat around.
If the tank, or whatever destination, is contained in the laptop, then the heat is also contained in the laptop. The heat may not be in the processor, but it is still in your lap!
It seems they plan to use a 3mm radiator plate that is the size of the laptop's base. This will add 3mm to the height of the unit. The base of the laptop now must be sunk - in other words, it must be used on something solid. I would wager a wood table would not conduct enough heat away from a P4 that is doing something like, for instance, playing a DVD.
Do not underestimate the cooling ability of good old air. The water cooling system may be sexy but in the end contain too many problems.
Sodium was used mostly in applications requiring high reliability -- such as aircraft engines (Lycoming comes to mind). But as far as I know they were discontinued because they bring their own problems. Sodium valves seem to stick more; fortunately one bad valve doesn't usually bring the plane down.
Also VW Bus motors used them, but they also used magnesium engine blocks -- have you ever seen a VW Bus burn? The firefighters do not even pump water on 'em because the magnesium burns so hot that water is electrolytically split into hydrogen and oxygen.
All for a *slight* weight advantage.
It just seems to me water cooling in notebooks is a gee-whiz thing, like Sony Jog-Dials and other crap designed to get the guy in the store to buy.
I have no idea who would be running 3ghz all out on the laptop, unless they were running XP with indexing on:)
Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't seem smart to pump liquid through an expensive and fragile machine, just for the purpose of a debatable performance and/or noise improvement.
I don't like there being *anything* required to be attached to the laptop to run. It is too easy to forget the charger and suck, but at least it will run. But a tank (of any size)? Imagine the conversation at the presentation: "I am sorry, but this thing won't run because I forgot the radiator?"
I have several laptops, and fan noise is the least objectionable thing about them. Hard disk scrubbing is what drives me up the wall and I am an expert by now in which notebook drives are noisy and which are not (Hint: DO NOT use Hitachi drives).
But fan noise? Fan noise? To me, water cooling is in there with glass cases and neon light kits. Too much work and too much risk for the benefit.
I had to put my 240x together from parts. Ultimate portability (tho screen max size is 800x640) as long as you don't need a CD on the road. 500 mhz P3 and I stuffed in a 40gb drive and maxed out the ram, the whole thing cost maybe $500. If it had been made with built-in NIC and two PCMCIA slots, it would be my only machine.
My friend bought himself one of those new Sonys with a 16" LCD. It even has a DVD burner built-in. Weighs 10 pounds. Runs at 2.8 ghz. Does not fit in his bag, needs its own case. But he uses it the same purpose I do, to transfer digital images. I don't think he gets it done any faster on the Sony.
If heat is an issue, instead of attaching a huge tank to the side of a ghee-whiz watercooled notebook, why not build one using *underclocked* cpus and air cooling. Or use the crusoe. I don't know about NEC, but my personal preference is that my laptop be portable.
It seems to me manufacturers think everybody wants one with desktop CPUs drawing 20 amps, just so they can say Lookie, my laptop runs at 2.8 ghz!!!!
Permit me to remind you that you and I already pay for the music. For instance, radio stations pay ASCAP/BMI to play music. That money comes from ads for products you and I buy.
Whenever you buy these products you are supporting ALL the music, even (and this is tha part that galls me the most) shitty gangster crap music that rocks my fucking apartment at 3 in the morning.
The only way to completely NOT pay for music is to actively avoid products advertised on radio and TV, and also those sold in stores that play background music.
RIAA insisting on being paid, in advance, for every molecule of air moved by their recordings is the reason for the almost universal hatred for them.
Face it, the RIAA you love and support is done as a business model. The only reason they have made it this far is that the technology only came into existence in the last 10 years.
>>...and for the most part the actual costs of getting a ticket are pretty low, so long as you don't get one more than once every 18 months, here in california at least.
That's an OK policy if you don't plan to surface later in life. But, down the road, try to get a gov't job, or run for office, having to explain all those tickets you had gotten every 18.1 months.
Those little citations are criminal convictions that will cost you the job.
I usually get the generic cartridges for my pre-chip Epson. When they ran out of those, I had to buy the "economical" two-pack of genuine Epson.
Aside from the $40 cost (deep-discount, as I understand), just getting the cartridges out from all the packaging was a chore. It was like peeling an onion. It was time- consuming. I needed a knife to get past the hard shell. There were slick-coated 4-color ads in and on the packaging.
The resulting stack of garbage took up half the wastebasket -- not including the spent cartridges, which I am starting to save for refilling.
Knowing I paid for all that glossy, 4-color trash makes me highly reluctant to buy those genuine cartridges again.
What, are you kidding me? If you read the article instead of trying to hit first post, it says people are buying laptops for the portability -- imagine that! I thought we all wanted smaller & easier to use.
Not discussed in the article, CRTs and desktops use much more energy. Laptops can be used when the power is out - what a concept, not just a UPS where you can gracefully shut down when the power goes out.
The desktop is king only where unit cost is important. Oh, and gaming.
It is possible. If you had picked out a email address that had been used before by someone else, you will be getting the previous guy's spam.
This is more likely if you used a common or desirable name. Hotmail, which recycles your account if unused for only 30 days, gets blamed for this all the time.
This happens because spammers don't seem to check their bounces. I reactivated an old AOL address I had in '98. When I checked it after only one day, there were 50 spams in there.
Uhhh.... Grey Davis has something like a 16% approval rating. You must be one of the sixteen. Hell, even the teachers -- who put him over the top against Simon last year, are screaming bloody murder about the budget cuts he just applied against them. How is THAT different than some blood-sucking Republican?
Davis is gone -- this guy could fuck up a cup of coffee. ANYBODY ELSE, another Dem, another Republican, give me Arnold, but Davis is gone. Dismissed. The state of California is bankrupt. It is the work of Davis, who, assisted by a State House and State Senate in his own party, have spent $40 billion more than came in in a 5-year orgy of spending. They have no grasp -- not the first inkling -- of money management.
I have supreme confidence that Davis will fuck up his anti-recall effort as he has everything else. He waited this long to respond (no surprise, research his energy mess), and then overreacted (again, research his energy mess).
Interesting you should mention Davis... I just heard the most vicious anti-recall ad on the radion here. Basically it is an ad hominem attack against Calif. congressman Darryl Issa. It calls him a car thief, a carjacker, talks about his arrests (he was found innocent) and tells you to run and lock up your kids if you see a recall petitioner coming. Utterly unbelievable.
If you are not a troll, or a spammer, you are grossly misinformed.
The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that advertising enjoys less protection than ordinary speech. The most recent decision was in 1980 and is called the Central Hudson Case.
In the decision, the exceptions to First Amendment protection of advertising speech were clearly outlined (the four-part Central Hudson Test).
Here is a link: http://www.bodi.com/papers/advertising/adv-1.htm but to summarize, spam speech cannot even get past the first test (the advertising must be of lawful activity and not be misleading).
The FTC handles actions against spammers in the US. In a decision only today, the infamous Berrytrim Plus spammer had their ass handed to them to the tune of a million dollars. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibs ys/20030701/lo_WCVB/1681009
They are not interested in us PERSONALLY. They are interested in us FINANCIALLY.
If your credit is good, believe me they are very very interested in you. Also identity theft scammers, who like to pick up all the loose bits of information these companies like to toss in the Dumpster. If your information is found and your fico is over 700, well... it won't be that high for long. The fact that you are so cavalier about your financials tells me that the probability is that your credit is not noteworthy.
Further, if you have achieved some importance in your community, all this loose information makes it much easier for your opponents to get a handle on you. In that case, there would be individuals interested in your PERSONAL info -- just ask all the celebs and politicians.
Perhaps there is no law, but the businesses pay in the end. Perhaps half of shoppers are now reluctant to shop online due to previous negative experiences, including distribution of their personal information.
This has already happened to charities, which long ago shedded their decency and yielded to aggressive, outsourced, for-profit donation management. Now, as soon as you donate to one you are deluged with solicitations from others. Maybe their numbers spiked at the start, but now they wonder why giving is down.
If in the end business dries up because of their behind-the-scenes bullshit, they only have themselves to blame.
Really! They have waited so long to do it, they might as well as forget about it. Harrison Ford *IS* Indiana Jones. It is a little late in his life cycle to try to pull off the rugged adventurer (although I recall Richard Chamberlain did Indiana ripoff "King Solomons Mines" at 55+).
I know you're running servers and I'm using 2000 on the desktop, but I can make 2k blow up at will by trying to use certain programs when a network printer is offline. The system will stall for a second when certain programs (including adobe products and openoffice) are started, then crashes violently and dumps the memory (unfortunately, 640mb) to disk and restarts. At least with win98se, the bsod episode only lasts a couple minutes.
If it is OTG techies on the phonelines, then it will cost them more in the end. But if it is the usual $6/hr script-reading monkeys, outsourced as usual, then their final cost is known and already factored into the price.
The same is true in the gaming world. Game salesmen were openly laughing at the million idiots who bought copies of The Matrix Retarded before people suddenly realized what a POS it is.
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The article is a little vague on the tank topic. A water cooling system has to pump water somewhere in order to move the heat around.
If the tank, or whatever destination, is contained in the laptop, then the heat is also contained in the laptop. The heat may not be in the processor, but it is still in your lap!
It seems they plan to use a 3mm radiator plate that is the size of the laptop's base. This will add 3mm to the height of the unit. The base of the laptop now must be sunk - in other words, it must be used on something solid. I would wager a wood table would not conduct enough heat away from a P4 that is doing something like, for instance, playing a DVD.
Do not underestimate the cooling ability of good old air. The water cooling system may be sexy but in the end contain too many problems.
Sodium was used mostly in applications requiring high reliability -- such as aircraft engines (Lycoming comes to mind). But as far as I know they were discontinued because they bring their own problems. Sodium valves seem to stick more; fortunately one bad valve doesn't usually bring the plane down.
Also VW Bus motors used them, but they also used magnesium engine blocks -- have you ever seen a VW Bus burn? The firefighters do not even pump water on 'em because the magnesium burns so hot that water is electrolytically split into hydrogen and oxygen.
All for a *slight* weight advantage.
It just seems to me water cooling in notebooks is a gee-whiz thing, like Sony Jog-Dials and other crap designed to get the guy in the store to buy.
I have no idea who would be running 3ghz all out on the laptop, unless they were running XP with indexing on :)
Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't seem smart to pump liquid through an expensive and fragile machine, just for the purpose of a debatable performance and/or noise improvement.
I don't like there being *anything* required to be attached to the laptop to run. It is too easy to forget the charger and suck, but at least it will run. But a tank (of any size)? Imagine the conversation at the presentation: "I am sorry, but this thing won't run because I forgot the radiator?"
I have several laptops, and fan noise is the least objectionable thing about them. Hard disk scrubbing is what drives me up the wall and I am an expert by now in which notebook drives are noisy and which are not (Hint: DO NOT use Hitachi drives).
But fan noise? Fan noise? To me, water cooling is in there with glass cases and neon light kits. Too much work and too much risk for the benefit.
>> Hitachi came out with a watercooled P4 notebook a while back....
So YOU'RE the guy I saw spill a Big Gulp on his Hitachi.
I had to put my 240x together from parts. Ultimate portability (tho screen max size is 800x640) as long as you don't need a CD on the road. 500 mhz P3 and I stuffed in a 40gb drive and maxed out the ram, the whole thing cost maybe $500. If it had been made with built-in NIC and two PCMCIA slots, it would be my only machine.
My friend bought himself one of those new Sonys with a 16" LCD. It even has a DVD burner built-in. Weighs 10 pounds. Runs at 2.8 ghz. Does not fit in his bag, needs its own case. But he uses it the same purpose I do, to transfer digital images. I don't think he gets it done any faster on the Sony.
I believe some nuclear fission reactors pump liquid sodium metal as coolant. Not to give notebook mfg's any ideas!
If heat is an issue, instead of attaching a huge tank to the side of a ghee-whiz watercooled notebook, why not build one using *underclocked* cpus and air cooling. Or use the crusoe. I don't know about NEC, but my personal preference is that my laptop be portable.
It seems to me manufacturers think everybody wants one with desktop CPUs drawing 20 amps, just so they can say Lookie, my laptop runs at 2.8 ghz!!!!
Run Crusoe, it's cool in more ways than one.
Permit me to remind you that you and I already pay for the music. For instance, radio stations pay ASCAP/BMI to play music. That money comes from ads for products you and I buy.
Whenever you buy these products you are supporting ALL the music, even (and this is tha part that galls me the most) shitty gangster crap music that rocks my fucking apartment at 3 in the morning.
The only way to completely NOT pay for music is to actively avoid products advertised on radio and TV, and also those sold in stores that play background music.
RIAA insisting on being paid, in advance, for every molecule of air moved by their recordings is the reason for the almost universal hatred for them.
Face it, the RIAA you love and support is done as a business model. The only reason they have made it this far is that the technology only came into existence in the last 10 years.
>> ...and for the most part the actual costs of getting a ticket are pretty low, so long as you don't get one more than once every 18 months, here in california at least.
That's an OK policy if you don't plan to surface later in life. But, down the road, try to get a gov't job, or run for office, having to explain all those tickets you had gotten every 18.1 months.
Those little citations are criminal convictions that will cost you the job.
Change the law then. (HINT: It's going to take a LOT of money!)
I usually get the generic cartridges for my pre-chip Epson. When they ran out of those, I had to buy the "economical" two-pack of genuine Epson.
Aside from the $40 cost (deep-discount, as I understand), just getting the cartridges out from all the packaging was a chore. It was like peeling an onion. It was time- consuming. I needed a knife to get past the hard shell. There were slick-coated 4-color ads in and on the packaging.
The resulting stack of garbage took up half the wastebasket -- not including the spent cartridges, which I am starting to save for refilling.
Knowing I paid for all that glossy, 4-color trash makes me highly reluctant to buy those genuine cartridges again.
What, are you kidding me? If you read the article instead of trying to hit first post, it says people are buying laptops for the portability -- imagine that! I thought we all wanted smaller & easier to use.
Not discussed in the article, CRTs and desktops use much more energy. Laptops can be used when the power is out - what a concept, not just a UPS where you can gracefully shut down when the power goes out.
The desktop is king only where unit cost is important. Oh, and gaming.
In that case, they're busted!!
"They denied giving my email address to anybody."
It is possible. If you had picked out a email address that had been used before by someone else, you will be getting the previous guy's spam.
This is more likely if you used a common or desirable name. Hotmail, which recycles your account if unused for only 30 days, gets blamed for this all the time.
This happens because spammers don't seem to check their bounces. I reactivated an old AOL address I had in '98. When I checked it after only one day, there were 50 spams in there.
Uhhh.... Grey Davis has something like a 16% approval rating. You must be one of the sixteen. Hell, even the teachers -- who put him over the top against Simon last year, are screaming bloody murder about the budget cuts he just applied against them. How is THAT different than some blood-sucking Republican?
Davis is gone -- this guy could fuck up a cup of coffee. ANYBODY ELSE, another Dem, another Republican, give me Arnold, but Davis is gone. Dismissed. The state of California is bankrupt. It is the work of Davis, who, assisted by a State House and State Senate in his own party, have spent $40 billion more than came in in a 5-year orgy of spending. They have no grasp -- not the first inkling -- of money management.
I have supreme confidence that Davis will fuck up his anti-recall effort as he has everything else. He waited this long to respond (no surprise, research his energy mess), and then overreacted (again, research his energy mess).
Interesting you should mention Davis... I just heard the most vicious anti-recall ad on the radion here. Basically it is an ad hominem attack against Calif. congressman Darryl Issa. It calls him a car thief, a carjacker, talks about his arrests (he was found innocent) and tells you to run and lock up your kids if you see a recall petitioner coming. Utterly unbelievable.
If you are not a troll, or a spammer, you are grossly misinformed.
but to summarize, spam speech cannot even get past the first test (the advertising must be of lawful activity and not be misleading).
s ys/20030701/lo_WCVB/1681009
The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that advertising enjoys less protection than ordinary speech. The most recent decision was in 1980 and is called the Central Hudson Case.
In the decision, the exceptions to First Amendment protection of advertising speech were clearly outlined (the four-part Central Hudson Test).
Here is a link: http://www.bodi.com/papers/advertising/adv-1.htm
The FTC handles actions against spammers in the US. In a decision only today, the infamous Berrytrim Plus spammer had their ass handed to them to the tune of a million dollars. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ib
It doesn't matter who they blame, as long as they experience financial failure.
I think you've missed the point.
They are not interested in us PERSONALLY. They are interested in us FINANCIALLY.
If your credit is good, believe me they are very very interested in you. Also identity theft scammers, who like to pick up all the loose bits of information these companies like to toss in the Dumpster. If your information is found and your fico is over 700, well... it won't be that high for long. The fact that you are so cavalier about your financials tells me that the probability is that your credit is not noteworthy.
Further, if you have achieved some importance in your community, all this loose information makes it much easier for your opponents to get a handle on you. In that case, there would be individuals interested in your PERSONAL info -- just ask all the celebs and politicians.
Perhaps there is no law, but the businesses pay in the end. Perhaps half of shoppers are now reluctant to shop online due to previous negative experiences, including distribution of their personal information.
This has already happened to charities, which long ago shedded their decency and yielded to aggressive, outsourced, for-profit donation management. Now, as soon as you donate to one you are deluged with solicitations from others. Maybe their numbers spiked at the start, but now they wonder why giving is down.
If in the end business dries up because of their behind-the-scenes bullshit, they only have themselves to blame.
Really! They have waited so long to do it, they might as well as forget about it. Harrison Ford *IS* Indiana Jones. It is a little late in his life cycle to try to pull off the rugged adventurer (although I recall Richard Chamberlain did Indiana ripoff "King Solomons Mines" at 55+).
This makes me wonder about the takeoffs, the publishers and how much they let others get away with.
:P
I'm not sure what's going on in Japan, but it seems the Sailor Moon hentai outnumbers the original Sailor Moon series. Seems better drawn too
I know you're running servers and I'm using 2000 on the desktop, but I can make 2k blow up at will by trying to use certain programs when a network printer is offline. The system will stall for a second when certain programs (including adobe products and openoffice) are started, then crashes violently and dumps the memory (unfortunately, 640mb) to disk and restarts. At least with win98se, the bsod episode only lasts a couple minutes.
If it is OTG techies on the phonelines, then it will cost them more in the end. But if it is the usual $6/hr script-reading monkeys, outsourced as usual, then their final cost is known and already factored into the price.
The same is true in the gaming world. Game salesmen were openly laughing at the million idiots who bought copies of The Matrix Retarded before people suddenly realized what a POS it is.