SWF is not a hack. Another attempt at fud. The format has stayed VERY lean of cruft.
I wasnt talking about speed or bytecode, but about its lack of fitting in with the big picture, they tackle things on a problem by problem basis - adding accessability support, XML and CSS, DOM etc where as SVG has everything to begin with because its inherently designed like that.
If you compressed 40 bytes I bet you could get it down to 9...some of the time. I don't know though, all the SVG I've seen has been ungodly enormous
This is true and a byte-code for SVG would be welcomed aslong as it was a direct translation (as assembly is to machine code) this wouldnt compromise the format and could still be mixed with HTML (if required) and wouldnt have to change the underlaying idea at-all. However, most compression is very good at dealing with the sort of thing SVG/XML puts out (a tag can be turned into a symbol of very short length) (I managed to stay awake through comms lectures enough to learn that).
We dont use XML for Images for several reasons, apart from JPEG being so widely adopted already, XML wouldnt add any extra information to a flat 2D image because its just a sequence of pixel values, (where as it would for a vector image which is very object-orientated), just as most text goes between 2 XML tags because its just an ordered sequence of characters instead of us using 'word' or 'letter' tags everywhere, and of-course it would be bloat, which is why im all for SVG byte-code aslong as it was pretty transparent to the user and didnt break the format, infact Macromedia could do this and I would bow down to them, but SWF is not SVG in bytecode.
I'm not going to code a flash animation in Flash. I'm going to draw it in Flash. I'm not going to make an SVG animation by hand, I'm going to draw it in an SVG program.
Mostly you will do abit of both. Drawing elements such as icons and designing menu elements but then you want these to have a degree of abstraction and automation. I want my XSLT to transform the data automatically deciding what pre-drawn elements, icons, menus, animations, effects etc to put where after i've defined it. Both formats can do this but the W3C way is just the best, there are somethings that you just cant do that well by clicking on menus and people are still amazed when i change 5 lines of CSS and make every menu in the site go down instead of across and every link turn red but only if its in a form etc. SVG is a continuation of the W3Cs great work.
you will be very hard pressed to create an application that can create SVG output, compress it, and send it out faster than a pre-compiled binary.
I don't see why it would be much slower and yes byte-code would probably help here too. I want SVG with byte-code!
More FUD. SVG can be compressed and viewers support this already, in fact if you have any kind of Huffman type of encoding, the efficiency would be very high, maybe even higher than a human derived byte code and with some cleaver passing could be run on the fly like that? SVG is a W3C standard, this has nothing to do with open-source, SWF is a format to which the specs are fully available but does not attempt to integrate with HTML in any way other than being an embedded object. XML isn't bloat, its the future for reasons that are too much to describe here (ask an XML guru). Its true that in practical terms flash is slightly better, but only just, and in this day and age comparing 9 bytes with 40 is like comparing 0.0001 seconds with 0.00001 even on a mobile. Flash does have an incredible user-base however and i respect them but I see flash as just something you stick in a page as a media object. SVG will always integrate better with everything else on the web, an SVG image/animation/app doesn't have to be just another embedded rectangle in an HTML page, it can be more a part of the page and mixed with other HTML elements and can take on CSS (which the latest flash can do in a limited way), it works with already existent scripting languages such as java-script (which as become very useful with its DOM model). Flash pioneered the area and have been responsible for an entire internet sub-culture but they could still move towards SVG with success, SWF is basically just another format that Flash outputs to. SVG being part of the W3C big picture inherently has some advantages, for example, if i have a slow or old computer (or mobile) its feasible that the browser could ignore allot of the special effects and show an un-flashy page just like if a browser doesn't support CSS the page will still be totally usable. Braille/speech readers have full access (something which Macromedia bolted onto Flash after getting some stick) and server-side software or XSL transforms can use the DOM model to easily create SVG objects (without any sort of license restrictions i might add) meaning fully XML based data-sources can be complex and yet outputted easily (without miles of actionscript) Flash/SWF is very useful but it is and always will be a hack, we're fast reaching the point in terms of processing power where hacks are not needed but instead (as the amount of data we have to deal with keeps going up) organised formats, data and abstracting presentation is required.
I don't think theres any need for the conspiracy hat here, or even just a cheepo tin-foil hat, its well known that Bush loves his special laws that seem so nice to the average joe because they give him afew cents, but are loved by the rich because they give them a few billion cents. And he would have gotten away with it if it wasnt for those pesky share-holders.
If they want to find out how many of these are real hits then why not take a look at the reported child rape/abuse statistics, they're probably a little higher this month..
Re:My fitting 1984/2004 conspiracy theory..
on
1984 Comes To Boston
·
· Score: 1
Mark my words, when the revolution comes, the tyrant Bush will be paraded in chains and his blood money will be distributed to the people! Thus saint Moore will be paraded in gold silk and finery as the new leader and will decree that all followers be blessed with several virgin slave girls of their choosing!
My fitting 1984/2004 conspiracy theory..
on
1984 Comes To Boston
·
· Score: 0, Troll
The idea is that they will be able to get 1000's of Democrat's faces on camera and stored, facial recognition will then work on profiling them as best it can so they can be classed as terrorists (because they question the great leader bush). As a side line, anyone who so much drops a cigarette on the ground will be charged with a minor offence and their name will be taken off the voter roll (just in time) they will of course get a full apology and have their name put back on after a small 'processing' time which should be done sometime after November 2004. The face recognition database will be used in up-coming Republican rallies so that any Democrats seen there can be quickly moved away. As for monitoring boats, they're just bored.
It will happen, meanwhile, the FBI has no problems confiscating equipment for their investigations. An ISP or uni will have a hard time running with all their computers gone.
An Olympic event is a one-time event, and there are no do-overs Yeah, but there are video recorders and delays? Most of the crap^H^H^H^H sport is going to have to be time shifted anyway. What i would do for all that bandwidth and equipment! (deathmatch on the big screen)
They just figured they cant stop people doing it on their network so they either pay off the mafia COUGH sorry i mean RIAA, or they get sued for 10 times as much, then they really will be bitching.
So lets see, is Elvis outraged, or some greedy money grabbing fuckwit who wants to milk their dead relative at the expense of polluting the law with even more crap? I thought so.
The problem is its not in the IT guys interests to fix it or let anyone know its broken so if you bring it up with them they're just gonna pretend you broke it and make a fuss. The people at the top don't want that sort of reputation either so they're not going to side with the bringer of bad news as long as they think they can make it all go away. If you believe the security is bad enough to put you at risk you could always rat the little buggers out, the data protection act will cover your ass here you have the right for your personal data to be kept secure but you dont have the right to break it so if you have done, keep very very quiet about it and just point someone else in the right direction. Anonymous letters might be a good option if you want it on the front-page.
And why not? granted it would take abit of time but you could get a polygraph every couple of months and get a certificate? This would also stop people cheating at customs.
Its a great idea, keep a database of terrorists - kinda like the pedophile lists, so once they've done one offence and got on the list you can make sure they dont get on a plane again. I also like the name check system that checks to see if a terrorist has made a fake ID with an anagram of their name or their same date of birth! Biometrics is going to be the key here, you've got to iris scan everyone to make sure they are who they said they were at the passport office or who they told that guy they got the fake ID from.
One idea though - why not add one of those little "Are you a terrorist?" tick-boxes when you buy tickets? I think if they also asked you the same question at the gate they could check to see if you had changed your choice - which would mean you were probably not telling the truth.
Some great ideas here. Oh BTW If they do start doing all that bank account checking stuff and they discover lots of money going between Saudi-Arabia and certain people in the US, they might want to make an exception if the person in question is the owner of any oil companies or their name begins with "prince" because obviously they're not terrorists! that would be abit embaressing, especially if Bush got pulled over trying to get on Air Force 1!
Its time to start tracking the government, why should leaders be allowed to sit behind closed doors giving favours to big corporations, and dont tell me that doesnt happen. On the other arm, i think any technology like this - biometrics and implants is a very bad idea. It now means that in order to get mugged, someone could go to the length of cutting your arm off or gouging out your eyes, or going the opposite way and stopping you having access to something by burning your finger-prints off. I don't think we even need to debate that it should be a basic human right for someone to choose not be forced to identify themselves with certain biometrics or implants, where do we draw the line though?
Definately 24/7 recording of all politicians though or atleast sand-boxing them so they cant talk to un-authorised people, you don't see a jury having a little chat with the murderer do you?
Of course, it makes perfect sense, they built a timer into all the DVD players that expires in about 10 years! The scary thing is i wouldnt put it past them to do that. He might not be too far off on this one. He could be talking about two things: DRM or internet storage. DVD used to be a locked down format, but thanks to some people who risked their own freedom to get us some, we have a pretty free format. Obviously this cant be allowed to continue so DVD must be retired and replaced with something more DRM'd.
On the other hand an hour ago I was about to get a big pack of CDRs and was thinking about a DVD burner and then it struck me, why not just by a new hard-drive? its not that much more expensive per GB, its more reliable (aslong as its not an IBM) and much faster especially considering you dont have to look for a disk. I used to burn lots of CDs just to carry work around, but these days i just store things online, CDs have replaced floppies but now they're starting to seem just as crap (with some going bad after just a year or two) DVDs are still not a perfect CD replacement because there are plenty of computers at uni's and work places etc that are stuck with CD drives and with fast internet access getting more popular i can just email myself files or leave my PC running and ftp to it from anywhere. We're going towards everything being networked and online, I havnt used a computer that wasnt on the net for some time now.
How about all those things that are illigal but shouldnt be? You should have the right to do anything you want in your own home aslong as its not hurting someone or endangering your neighbourhood, and yet taking certain (safe) things that you own apart (DMCA), smoking various plants, and doing certain things with certain people are illigal in the US and plenty of other places. Take a look at all the outdated sex laws and you could be arrested for just about anything (maybe even for reading them?) And why should you go to prision or pay $100,000s for downloading a song or taking a video camera to the cinema. Things like the patriot Act show just how fast and quietly new ground-breaking laws can be passed and just how many politicians dont even bother to read what they vote on. How fast could writing dissident material be outlawed? Remember the weeks after September 11th 2001? People were being visited by the FBI daily just because they had conversations with friends about Bush - imagine trying to have a talk in your own home about what a total utter cunt hes is, it would go something like this "Say, that president is a.." "SHHH Bob" "..err a not so bad leader and by golly hes doing his best". The FCC already decides what you say on the airwaves, would you like to be mic'd daily and cited for swearing? The problem is that you cant fix these laws for ever, its natural for any government to slowly push the law over liberty until the people react in a big way and then the cycle goes on. Its kinda like slowly taking abit of the duvet at a time until you have most of it and then it gets yanked back, but while you've got most of it, someone at big-brother central is staring at your wife through the mandatory ceiling camera and selling the frame-grabs.
The problem is i can type "x = 1 + 2;" allot quicker than i can click to create two objects, click on each and give it a value, create a 3rd object and draw two lines to wire it together. Also whenever i use a block system (spent some time with simulink/matlab at uni) i always start trying to make the boxes line up and look neat, where as coding is just a matter of pressing tab a couple of times.
Its the new browser wars, but this time its not about who looks the best its about who can manage to take the simple thing that is HTML, and turn it into the most deadly virus-pushing force known to computers. I think IE is definately in the lead on this, Mozilla did have a little lead with their shell bug but then we learnt the shocking news that they had stolen the technology from windows! now IE is back in its rightful lead and on its way into victory. And lets not forget IE's secret weapon: the ability to flood the screen with pop-ups at a moments notice, really how anyone could live without pop-ups is just beyond me.
Why not just wait until election day and call out names and then ask everyone in the state to put their hands up if they want that person? I think it would just about be better than Diebold.
Since when has it been acceptable to say those words on broadcast television?
Well in the UK and most other countries in the world it is (obviously not including the sort of countries that everything and cut peoples limbs off) I always thought the US was supposed to be the 'land of freedom'. People shouldnt have to pay to say something and even if it is just a publicity stunt, its good to bring the issue out in the open. I can imagine the next debate will be "should people who want to listen to censored words have to buy a box that plugs into their tv and decodes the bleeps or should the people who want them censored have to buy a box that bleeps everytime it gets a signal"
Slashdot Mirror
your anti-anti-fud is also fud..
SWF is not a hack. Another attempt at fud. The format has stayed VERY lean of cruft.
I wasnt talking about speed or bytecode, but about its lack of fitting in with the big picture, they tackle things on a problem by problem basis - adding accessability support, XML and CSS, DOM etc where as SVG has everything to begin with because its inherently designed like that.
If you compressed 40 bytes I bet you could get it down to 9...some of the time. I don't know though, all the SVG I've seen has been ungodly enormous
This is true and a byte-code for SVG would be welcomed aslong as it was a direct translation (as assembly is to machine code) this wouldnt compromise the format and could still be mixed with HTML (if required) and wouldnt have to change the underlaying idea at-all. However, most compression is very good at dealing with the sort of thing SVG/XML puts out (a tag can be turned into a symbol of very short length) (I managed to stay awake through comms lectures enough to learn that).
We dont use XML for Images for several reasons, apart from JPEG being so widely adopted already, XML wouldnt add any extra information to a flat 2D image because its just a sequence of pixel values, (where as it would for a vector image which is very object-orientated), just as most text goes between 2 XML tags because its just an ordered sequence of characters instead of us using 'word' or 'letter' tags everywhere, and of-course it would be bloat, which is why im all for SVG byte-code aslong as it was pretty transparent to the user and didnt break the format, infact Macromedia could do this and I would bow down to them, but SWF is not SVG in bytecode.
I'm not going to code a flash animation in Flash. I'm going to draw it in Flash. I'm not going to make an SVG animation by hand, I'm going to draw it in an SVG program.
Mostly you will do abit of both. Drawing elements such as icons and designing menu elements but then you want these to have a degree of abstraction and automation. I want my XSLT to transform the data automatically deciding what pre-drawn elements, icons, menus, animations, effects etc to put where after i've defined it. Both formats can do this but the W3C way is just the best, there are somethings that you just cant do that well by clicking on menus and people are still amazed when i change 5 lines of CSS and make every menu in the site go down instead of across and every link turn red but only if its in a form etc. SVG is a continuation of the W3Cs great work.
you will be very hard pressed to create an application that can create SVG output, compress it, and send it out faster than a pre-compiled binary.
I don't see why it would be much slower and yes byte-code would probably help here too. I want SVG with byte-code!
Its just a question of which interest group or old friend had it pushed through and how much they paid.
More FUD.
SVG can be compressed and viewers support this already, in fact if you have any kind of Huffman type of encoding, the efficiency would be very high, maybe even higher than a human derived byte code and with some cleaver passing could be run on the fly like that? SVG is a W3C standard, this has nothing to do with open-source, SWF is a format to which the specs are fully available but does not attempt to integrate with HTML in any way other than being an embedded object. XML isn't bloat, its the future for reasons that are too much to describe here (ask an XML guru). Its true that in practical terms flash is slightly better, but only just, and in this day and age comparing 9 bytes with 40 is like comparing 0.0001 seconds with 0.00001 even on a mobile. Flash does have an incredible user-base however and i respect them but I see flash as just something you stick in a page as a media object. SVG will always integrate better with everything else on the web, an SVG image/animation/app doesn't have to be just another embedded rectangle in an HTML page, it can be more a part of the page and mixed with other HTML elements and can take on CSS (which the latest flash can do in a limited way), it works with already existent scripting languages such as java-script (which as become very useful with its DOM model). Flash pioneered the area and have been responsible for an entire internet sub-culture but they could still move towards SVG with success, SWF is basically just another format that Flash outputs to. SVG being part of the W3C big picture inherently has some advantages, for example, if i have a slow or old computer (or mobile) its feasible that the browser could ignore allot of the special effects and show an un-flashy page just like if a browser doesn't support CSS the page will still be totally usable. Braille/speech readers have full access (something which Macromedia bolted onto Flash after getting some stick) and server-side software or XSL transforms can use the DOM model to easily create SVG objects (without any sort of license restrictions i might add) meaning fully XML based data-sources can be complex and yet outputted easily (without miles of actionscript) Flash/SWF is very useful but it is and always will be a hack, we're fast reaching the point in terms of processing power where hacks are not needed but instead (as the amount of data we have to deal with keeps going up) organised formats, data and abstracting presentation is required.
I don't think theres any need for the conspiracy hat here, or even just a cheepo tin-foil hat, its well known that Bush loves his special laws that seem so nice to the average joe because they give him afew cents, but are loved by the rich because they give them a few billion cents. And he would have gotten away with it if it wasnt for those pesky share-holders.
I know this is off topic, but it has to be said, percolators suck, get a proper pot!
Anyone wanna bet their proprietary technology is an Indian IP list?
If they want to find out how many of these are real hits then why not take a look at the reported child rape/abuse statistics, they're probably a little higher this month..
Mark my words, when the revolution comes, the tyrant Bush will be paraded in chains and his blood money will be distributed to the people!
Thus saint Moore will be paraded in gold silk and finery as the new leader and will decree that all followers be blessed with several virgin slave girls of their choosing!
The idea is that they will be able to get 1000's of Democrat's faces on camera and stored, facial recognition will then work on profiling them as best it can so they can be classed as terrorists (because they question the great leader bush). As a side line, anyone who so much drops a cigarette on the ground will be charged with a minor offence and their name will be taken off the voter roll (just in time) they will of course get a full apology and have their name put back on after a small 'processing' time which should be done sometime after November 2004. The face recognition database will be used in up-coming Republican rallies so that any Democrats seen there can be quickly moved away. As for monitoring boats, they're just bored.
It will happen, meanwhile, the FBI has no problems confiscating equipment for their investigations. An ISP or uni will have a hard time running with all their computers gone.
An Olympic event is a one-time event, and there are no do-overs
Yeah, but there are video recorders and delays? Most of the crap^H^H^H^H sport is going to have to be time shifted anyway. What i would do for all that bandwidth and equipment! (deathmatch on the big screen)
They just figured they cant stop people doing it on their network so they either pay off the mafia COUGH sorry i mean RIAA, or they get sued for 10 times as much, then they really will be bitching.
So lets see, is Elvis outraged, or some greedy money grabbing fuckwit who wants to milk their dead relative at the expense of polluting the law with even more crap? I thought so.
The problem is its not in the IT guys interests to fix it or let anyone know its broken so if you bring it up with them they're just gonna pretend you broke it and make a fuss. The people at the top don't want that sort of reputation either so they're not going to side with the bringer of bad news as long as they think they can make it all go away. If you believe the security is bad enough to put you at risk you could always rat the little buggers out, the data protection act will cover your ass here you have the right for your personal data to be kept secure but you dont have the right to break it so if you have done, keep very very quiet about it and just point someone else in the right direction. Anonymous letters might be a good option if you want it on the front-page.
And why not? granted it would take abit of time but you could get a polygraph every couple of months and get a certificate? This would also stop people cheating at customs.
Yes i know, which is exactly why it should be added to _ALL_ persons on _ALL_ flights. It works so damn well!
Its a great idea, keep a database of terrorists - kinda like the pedophile lists, so once they've done one offence and got on the list you can make sure they dont get on a plane again. I also like the name check system that checks to see if a terrorist has made a fake ID with an anagram of their name or their same date of birth! Biometrics is going to be the key here, you've got to iris scan everyone to make sure they are who they said they were at the passport office or who they told that guy they got the fake ID from.
One idea though - why not add one of those little "Are you a terrorist?" tick-boxes when you buy tickets? I think if they also asked you the same question at the gate they could check to see if you had changed your choice - which would mean you were probably not telling the truth.
Some great ideas here. Oh BTW If they do start doing all that bank account checking stuff and they discover lots of money going between Saudi-Arabia and certain people in the US, they might want to make an exception if the person in question is the owner of any oil companies or their name begins with "prince" because obviously they're not terrorists! that would be abit embaressing, especially if Bush got pulled over trying to get on Air Force 1!
Its time to start tracking the government, why should leaders be allowed to sit behind closed doors giving favours to big corporations, and dont tell me that doesnt happen. On the other arm, i think any technology like this - biometrics and implants is a very bad idea. It now means that in order to get mugged, someone could go to the length of cutting your arm off or gouging out your eyes, or going the opposite way and stopping you having access to something by burning your finger-prints off. I don't think we even need to debate that it should be a basic human right for someone to choose not be forced to identify themselves with certain biometrics or implants, where do we draw the line though?
Definately 24/7 recording of all politicians though or atleast sand-boxing them so they cant talk to un-authorised people, you don't see a jury having a little chat with the murderer do you?
Of course, it makes perfect sense, they built a timer into all the DVD players that expires in about 10 years! The scary thing is i wouldnt put it past them to do that. He might not be too far off on this one. He could be talking about two things: DRM or internet storage. DVD used to be a locked down format, but thanks to some people who risked their own freedom to get us some, we have a pretty free format. Obviously this cant be allowed to continue so DVD must be retired and replaced with something more DRM'd.
On the other hand an hour ago I was about to get a big pack of CDRs and was thinking about a DVD burner and then it struck me, why not just by a new hard-drive? its not that much more expensive per GB, its more reliable (aslong as its not an IBM) and much faster especially considering you dont have to look for a disk. I used to burn lots of CDs just to carry work around, but these days i just store things online, CDs have replaced floppies but now they're starting to seem just as crap (with some going bad after just a year or two) DVDs are still not a perfect CD replacement because there are plenty of computers at uni's and work places etc that are stuck with CD drives and with fast internet access getting more popular i can just email myself files or leave my PC running and ftp to it from anywhere. We're going towards everything being networked and online, I havnt used a computer that wasnt on the net for some time now.
How about all those things that are illigal but shouldnt be? You should have the right to do anything you want in your own home aslong as its not hurting someone or endangering your neighbourhood, and yet taking certain (safe) things that you own apart (DMCA), smoking various plants, and doing certain things with certain people are illigal in the US and plenty of other places. Take a look at all the outdated sex laws and you could be arrested for just about anything (maybe even for reading them?) And why should you go to prision or pay $100,000s for downloading a song or taking a video camera to the cinema. Things like the patriot Act show just how fast and quietly new ground-breaking laws can be passed and just how many politicians dont even bother to read what they vote on. How fast could writing dissident material be outlawed? Remember the weeks after September 11th 2001? People were being visited by the FBI daily just because they had conversations with friends about Bush - imagine trying to have a talk in your own home about what a total utter cunt hes is, it would go something like this "Say, that president is a.." "SHHH Bob" "..err a not so bad leader and by golly hes doing his best". The FCC already decides what you say on the airwaves, would you like to be mic'd daily and cited for swearing? The problem is that you cant fix these laws for ever, its natural for any government to slowly push the law over liberty until the people react in a big way and then the cycle goes on. Its kinda like slowly taking abit of the duvet at a time until you have most of it and then it gets yanked back, but while you've got most of it, someone at big-brother central is staring at your wife through the mandatory ceiling camera and selling the frame-grabs.
I hope they wernt intending for this to be the answer to the comming oil crisis?
The problem is i can type "x = 1 + 2;" allot quicker than i can click to create two objects, click on each and give it a value, create a 3rd object and draw two lines to wire it together. Also whenever i use a block system (spent some time with simulink/matlab at uni) i always start trying to make the boxes line up and look neat, where as coding is just a matter of pressing tab a couple of times.
Its the new browser wars, but this time its not about who looks the best its about who can manage to take the simple thing that is HTML, and turn it into the most deadly virus-pushing force known to computers. I think IE is definately in the lead on this, Mozilla did have a little lead with their shell bug but then we learnt the shocking news that they had stolen the technology from windows! now IE is back in its rightful lead and on its way into victory. And lets not forget IE's secret weapon: the ability to flood the screen with pop-ups at a moments notice, really how anyone could live without pop-ups is just beyond me.
Why not just wait until election day and call out names and then ask everyone in the state to put their hands up if they want that person? I think it would just about be better than Diebold.
Since when has it been acceptable to say those words on broadcast television?
Well in the UK and most other countries in the world it is (obviously not including the sort of countries that everything and cut peoples limbs off) I always thought the US was supposed to be the 'land of freedom'. People shouldnt have to pay to say something and even if it is just a publicity stunt, its good to bring the issue out in the open. I can imagine the next debate will be "should people who want to listen to censored words have to buy a box that plugs into their tv and decodes the bleeps or should the people who want them censored have to buy a box that bleeps everytime it gets a signal"