Slashdot Mirror
Japanese Schoolchildren to be Tagged with RFID
oostevo writes "CNET has reported that Japanese schoolchildren in the city of Osaka will be tagged with RFID tags. Apparently this is in addition to the trial program in Tabe that The Register reported earlier, where parents can track their children on their way to school."
How else will they know if their schoolchildren are being attacked by this month's Tentacle Monster?
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The tags will be read by readers installed in school gates and other key locations to track the kids' movements.
/tinfoil_hat_on
/tinfoil_hat_stays_on
In 2 years replace the word 'kids' with 'employees'.
In 5 years replace the word 'employers' with 'shoppers'.
in 9 years replace the word 'shoppers' with...
They love electronics. They'll probably be signing up for Hello Kitty themed RFID tags voluntarily.
RFID in my skull.
Total Recall?
With other implants parents or governments could monitor stress levels and investigate high readings for possible crimes.
Oh I feel so warm and cuddly, let me have them. My every move recorded, it will make cattle envious.
But won't the metal cover of the vending machines prevent the RFID tags from working?
I can't think of any other culture that would want to do something like this. I love Japan. Everything about it seems to be 20 years in the future. If you ever say anything weird or unbelievable, add "in Japan" at the end, and it sounds more realistic.
Try it out.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I'd tell 'em they have it when they're old enough to understand. And if they don't like, when they're old enough they can take it out themselves.
.. if it saves one kid, then it's worth it...
Or just think about yourself trying to explain how you don't want to see this because it violates privacy to a parent whose child is missing/abducted..
are belong to us!
The only problem with the way they are implementing it (and I don't see any workaround short of implanting the kids skin with RFID devices) is that since the tracking devices are tied to their book bags, if a pedo or other person wants the kid, they just have to drop or incapacitate the book bag chip .. thus making the tracking device useless.
,. than it might be useful.
Now if parents want to know if their kid is down at the pachinko parlour or some such
What happens when someone else besides the school is able to access them? I can view my whole school district's security cams and people think that is a privacy issue.
What is going to happen when someone is able to track these kids and it isn't the school?
the japanese school system is very rigid and regimented. It is the ultimate test market for these RFIDs since there is a predicable pattern to the student movements.
This allows the school to track down errant kids, make sure everyone is out in case of fire, and parents to know where their kids are, as many work long hours.
I am not saying RFID everything, but in this market (Japan) it works and fits in.
RoundTop
First they tag the kids, then they tag the crims. Then it is only a matter of time before we all have a RFID tag. This makes me want to read 1984 again.
Big Brother Loves You
"The most dangerous creation of any society is that man who has nothing to lose." - James Baldwin, American author
Well I can understand all the privacy issues surrounding putting RFID tags on people, but it's not the worst idea in the world with kids on that age. I know it runs the risk of setting a precedent, but kids that age aren't really at the stage where they need a huge degree of independance from their parents, and aren't sneaking off to drink/smoke like high school kids might do, so it's not really a situation where the parents are violating their kids' privacy. It would certainly allay certain fears about kids being abducted or getting into trouble. The only thing that concerns me somewhat is the alarm on "danger areas", because that could be abused by an over-strict system.
the Japanese can't tell their own children apart?
Will these be installed in the left wrist or the forehead. Revelations
Hmmm. Who wants to start placing bets on which child will emerge as the lone survivor of class 9-B?
Aside from the obviously frightening implications of this, how does it make sense? Are Japanese school children disappearing left and right? I thought Japan was an incredibly safe country.
On the other hand, if the kids are smart enough, think of the opportunity to play hookie: simply leave your RFID tag *within* the school, and sneak out! Go play video games all day, with an electronic alibi!
I am going to see if I can get work to start using these...
---------------------
Freedom or Evil: freevil.net
G. W. Bush says, "You decide!"
Longhorn is released, nearly bug-free, and crushes Linux once and for all... in Japan!
Slashdot in 5 Paragraphs
Ah, I remember the first day in school. We had to wear our name tag made out of 3x5 sticker on our shirts.
The simpler days...
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
The story is really light on detail. They say they'll be tracking them by placing the chip in their bag, nametag, etc., but they don't really say why.
I don't really see the point. Kidnap the kid? Easy enough, find the chip and dump it, near the school, then disappear. How does that help anything?
I'd like to see some justification provided for this test. I just don't really see where they're going with it right now.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Battle Royale
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
How many readers will they have to put up in these dangerous places so when kids get close they can read them?
How would you like to be a store owner in that area? Oh don't mind me Mr. Store Owner just putting up this reader since this is a dangerous place. Kids dont go there, then parents wont go there since it is now termed dangerous.
Course like kids wont be like hey Johnny cover for me carry my bag inside to trigger the reader, meet you back here at 3.
So you can now tag school kids like your pet dogs? Does that mean you now "own" your kids? I'm sorry but I see a generation of people growing up feeling violated and wanting conpensation for their suffering.
We already know the zealots bitching about Gmail scanning your e-mail for related adverts. Having real people watching you and where you do is just going to push them off the edge with screams of 1984 (think that's it) being thrown around left and right.
I guess it's time to invest in tin foil if you live in Osaka.
I like muppets.
they should tag the monsters? Giant Robo? anyone?
in America, Slashdotters would be saying "OMG, Bush and the patriot act have seen no ends. 1984 folks, happening right here"
But since its happening in Japan, it's "Well, I can see why they would want to do that. Yeah, it makes sense. The Japanese are so innovative."
s/Japan/Europe if you want.
Come with us now as we study the migratory patterns of the Japanese School Child.
[Helicoptor flys over a school yard full of children, one is separated out from the herd and tranqualized with a dart, scientist staples an RFID tag in his ear...]
Adults are the ones who need tracking...who abuse children....who (generally) commit crimes. Freakin' track them!
-psy
Congress repeals mandatory cattle RFID tagging. (It makes them nervous, they produce less milk, lose weight). Congressmen Disney "There is no reason to extend this repeal to humans though, their increasesd self-awareness makes it possible for them shrug off the effect."
Also in the news, Olsen triplets (clones of the twins) debut in their new triple XXX movie tonight, experts expect NBC to win sweeps month.
There's nothing more important to very young children than their privacy.
I'm also worried about how this affects "My Rights Online".
1. Copy the RFID tag of a classmate
2. Change it for yours when you're out of school.
3. Enter the max. number of shops/places considered "dangerous" for you in one day.
4. Restore your RFID before going home.
5. Make fun of the poor bastard the next day of class
No profit but lots of fun
I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
That's great. Now we're treating children like c(h)attle.
With a few slight mods to the screen formats, the Online Herd Management System should be applicable to schools.
Wonderful ... but from a paranoid's perspective how do you know that tracking employees or worse yet, citizen/terrorists (so confusing these days) already? I've had an RFID badge on my to get into various buildings at multiple workplaces for years. I could walk past a detector that just doesn't emit a pleasing "beep". They track bathroom visits now, I imagine, and see how many times the smokers hit the smoking lounge in a given day.
Didn't somebody have a program that tracked the position of US dollar bills around the country (or was that just an episode of Seven Days?).
One can't be paranoid enough, it seems. I've simply watched WAY too much Sci-Fi.
Let's keep in mind that a technology is not intrinsicly good or evil. The use of RFID tags on kids might or might not be acceptable, but it ends up as a very good way to keep track of little kids. Imho it's acceptable. Doesn't mean that scaling it to other circumstances would. Howeber, how long before they realize kids can drop the tags and then start implanting them beneath skin? Obviously the more imaginative among us can relate to sci-fi scenarios where you receive your tag when you're born, but they're not quite there yet. Wait and see? As for the slashdotter above that posted that odd things happen in Japan... actually the really odd things happen in the US. What's the last time you heard of someone being sued in Japan for a no-brainer? What other country defends abstinence as the primary means to counter Aids? I mean... c'mon. :)
"I don't mind God, it's his fan club I can't stand!" E8
These kids are NOT (I repeat... they are NOT) getting an RFID chip implanted in them. Instead, they'll be given RFID tags that they'll be expected to wear/carry so that as they pass by a scanner, their attendance is automatically recorded, automating the school attendance process from paper to bits without the teachers having to spend much time on it.
Of course, the flaw in this system would be that Student A could give their chip to Student B and sucessfully cut class...
:PICTURE CENSORED:
Name: Misty Dragon
Figure: 30 24 26
Occupation: School Girl
Tag Id: 21898494
Missing Children in Canada: Where did they go.
Martin will no longer be alone.
Obscure Simpsons reference.
Seriously though, one has to wonder about the ethics of something like tagging humans. The example I think of is the debate in ethics about 'coercion'... which is usually wrong except in rare circumstances such as protecting your own children. RFID tracking might be fine if a parent wants to have it for their young children, but under no circumstances could be mandated for adults (which I would argue, is more like 13 and older)
What if we had grown up wearing RFID tags? We probably wouldn't be objecting to today's chidren wearing RFID tags. More likely, the argument would be about something like "Should RFID tags be implanted or worn outside the body?".
That's the real danger of children wearing RFID tags. They will lose the ability to object when their own children are violated.
Seriously. I mean, I could provide the famous "give up liberty for security" quote, but rather than use rhetoric I encourage you to just think about it: life is short. Life is damned short and uncertain. Hell, that's what makes it's *precious* in the first place.
But in any case, yes, kids die on occasion. They die in accidents. They die due to malice or misfortune or whatever else. It sucks. But that doesn't mean that it's worth it to adopt some truly creepy tactics.
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure about this specific example, though it does creep me out. But your general rule ("if it saves one kid") is horribly flawed. By that logic, it would eventually be worth maintaining a full police state, just in order to save a few lives.
Older people die, too, people of all ages, until eventually everyone seems to succumb. Again, it sucks. But saving a few lives is not worth lowering the quality of life for everyone, not in every situation at least. Think of it almost in terms of game theory, if you will: the total utility of saving a life or two versus screwing up many many more lives just isn't worth it. Granted, using math and statistics to talk about life and death is often seen as inensitive, but it's still an interesting way to ponder the issue.
See, it's your kind of logic that has been used to justify some of the more egregious steps in the "war on terror." Some people think that it's worth having a police state (or a police world) in order to guarantee as much security as humanly possible. Me? I'd rather have a freer life, with a side of danger. We all die someday anyway.
No way. "If it saves one kid..." is such a BS argument to put in basically anything a particular group wants. Truth is, this would not prevent a kidnapping. Maybe help in the resolution, but just like Lo-jack for your car, they still get taken.
Want to save far more kids' lives? Abolish cars. "If it saves one kid", right?
Few are stranger abductions
Just what your local pedophile has been asking for all along.. a way to track kids so that they can grab them in much more concealed places. Oh look, that one kid just seperated from his friends and is now going down an empty street all by himself.. yum!
The article says that the RFID tags are to be placed on the kids clothing, name-tags, and bookbags. However, aren't those the first things a Pedophile is going to remove from a school kid before taking the kid to their "secret lair"?
... and in the DRM, bind them.
The Japanese always get the newest technologies to abuse. /Those/ kids will become experts in defeating RFIDs while it's easy to do so, while us Americans will get it at a much more advanced stage. I much prefer being the guinea pig-- it's an important learning opportunity.
This is friggen nuts! How dehumanizing. To be tracked like an animal. It's appauling to the point of panic.
but then you couldn't put your kids in the microwave anymore.
And more importantly, it conditions them to be tracked more in the future. That may not *physically* harm them, but it's still damn creepy and arguably quite harmful. I sure wouldn't want it done to me.
As regular UCB viewers know, you can do the same thing with "in bed", e.g. I can't think of any other culture that would want to do something like this... in bed.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
The saddest part is how far can a kid possibly get lost in an island? Japan isn't remotely close to being the biggest country in the world. The people are ridiculously disciplined with the lowest crime rate imaginable. WTF are they tagging these people for.
Aand it was actually relatively skillfully done, in my opinion at least. You refute an argument by showing how its logic leads to absurdity. The argument isn't meant to provide a serious assertion, but rather an obviously silly assertion that reflects badly on the argument it is replying to.
The whole recurring theme about man and machine? Ghost in the Shell? Tetsuo in Akira merging with all the machinery around him? How many other examples can you name? I've always wondered why that's such a common idea in anime. I have my answer now.
It's because the Japanese think it's a good idea, that's why.
You know, Slashdot is a great place to be a geek. Look at the new technologies coming out, marvel at their application...but sometimes you just gotta say enough is enough.
And I have to draw the line right before RFID tagging my children.
It's impressively geeky, but c'mon guys - sometimes "because you can" isn't the right answer!
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
You're it!
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - Orwell
"if a pedo or other person wants the kid, they just have to drop or incapacitate the book bag chip
Worse yet, the tags could actually aid in the abduction (assuming these things can be detected far enough away to be "useful" in the first place). Just stick the tag to a dog/taxi/etc. that's going to move around on its own and tie up the authorities, since they're trusting that the detected RFID is where the kid is.
And if they don't have that trust, then isn't this system merely a complex flawed replacement for simple class roll-calls?
I know a lot of people here think this can fight abduction. But how? Would a kidnapper really care whether or not the kid has a tag? If the sensors were placed EVERYWHERE, maybe they could track a missing child, but the abductor would certainly not stick around school with a tagged (or any) kid. I could see this as a potential means to fight truency, but not abduction.
This also poses an interesting threat to privacy in future, Imagine parents having access to buddy details of their kid, which can be found by "RFID Pairing"(just coined this new term).
This information can be recovered by checking the most common RFID tag(the other kid) registers at RFID scanners along with their kids.
Just a thought, Not sure how far this can be implemented!!
Including the gym teacher who was arrested for putting a camera in the girls locker room, and the math teacher busted for giving alcohol to the kids, and getting them to make a porn video.
So am I to believe that either, the children will be wearing low jacks a la out on parole convict, have these things stapled to them like some sort of in store garment dye tag or implanted under the skin at the back of the neck directly below the bar code?
I can not see any other way of guarenteeing the child is where the tag says they are.
Gotta say this...
In Japan parents tag you.
flinging poop since 1969
Yes, kids are under adult attention a lot of the time. Still, I cannot dismiss this as just a "more efficient method" as you do. Is torture just a more efficient method of interrogation? Efficiency is not a justifying dictum, just a bonus.
That's your choice. Me, I do care. I'm not a totally paranoid tinfoil-hatter, but I have purposely avoided owning a cellphone and intend to continue doing so until it becomes an absolute necessity (if it does). And even then, I doubt I'll keep it with me all the time, much less on. I don't want to be reachable or trackable 24/7, that's not human nature, or at least not my nature.
This seems like a real waste of resources, especially in Japan, unless there's some kind of kidnapping wave there that I haven't heard about. And it encourages parents to complacently trust technology, rather than communicate directly with their children.
As for the slippery slope, remember that children have fewer rights than adults. To kids it looks like their rights are just suppressed, because they don't have the power to take it back. But it's actually because they are still learning to be people, when subordination to experience is necessary, and haven't actually developed the inalienable rights inherent in adults. Otherwise kids would have all emancipated themselves already, at latest in the 1960s when they all got money, cars, and TV role models.
It will be important to remember these distinctions when the police states attempt to raise the age of application of these tracking devices, saying that kids don't mind, why shouldn't adults, whose lives are risker. Adults who are monitored become even more neurotic, sources of risk. Monitoring us will make us less safe, as society becomes unhinged from the transferred social pressure. At least watching the increase in deviance, from unfairly implanted kids who are already developed into adults, will give us some data warning us away from general application of the technique.
--
make install -not war
Um, Denmark. RTFA.
Maybe I'm just not a good geek, but for some reason I can't muster all the outrage that everyone else has. I don't know what it is, but I just can't get too upset. Perhaps I'm resigned to our fate. I think it's inevitable that RFID or some similar tracking device will be commonplace within our lifetimes. It'll just be another step in having a baby - push, breathe, here it comes, spank, cry, name it, get the tag installed. I'm not trolling, that's just what I think'll happen.
I used to rant against any invasion of privacy whatsoever. But I soon realized that if I wasn't doing anything illegal, I had nothing to worry about even if there were cameras all over my house. Kind of like people arguing for P2P sharing's "legitimate" uses. I mean c'mon - how many times has someone really used it legitimately?
But to stay on topic, I guess I just don't get it all. I'd actually be okay with tagging as long as any monitoring wasn't used irresponsibly - like confiscating my computer for writing dissident material. That sort of thing is what I think the whole debate is about, really - not that we'd be monitored, but that the people doing the monitoring might be evil and that there are a few capabilities for abuses. If the monitoring were somehow magically assured to be flawless and apply only towards the prevention of illegal activities, I might even lobby openly for them.
Call me crazy, but I don't think that "right to privacy" should mean "right to privately commit illegal acts." Keep things in perspective. Sure, the gov. has a history of abuses, but even slightly creepy RFID tags can and will have some very widespread advantages.
And on a lighter note, here's one of my favorite quotes on the subject from "That 70's show!"
Red: Damn US government? Without our government you'd be stuck in Siberia now, sucking the juice from a rotten commi potato! Lemme tell you something... if the US government decides to stick a tracking device up your ass, you say thank you... and god bless america!!
Haha!
CBS$#@
free ipod and free gmail!
Recently released cellphones from F900 series have support for "FeLiCa" which is some type of RFID-like device. There are plans to use these for banking, shopping, as door keys (holding your phone next to the door to open it), etc.
And because Japland isn't filled with privacy freaks like say U.S., these things will happen and nobody will be complaining.
When HDTV copy protection was enabled in April 2004, few thousand people complained, then everyone shut up. I'd imagine most complaining people were probably foreigners living in Japan.
I think you'd find that the most likely second target for a scheme like this would be (convicted) criminals, not employees.
(IIRC Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders)
First our pets and cattle, then our children, then criminals, then the rest of us.
A while ago, after reading a newspaper article about some hideous unsolved crime, I mentioned to a friend that we should start putting radiotags on criminals. Man, he hit the roof! Wow. He used a variety of terms to describe this idea, the one that I remember most was 'Nazi'.
Radio tagging people has its merits and can certainly make the world a 'Better Place'(tm), but it is simply too prone to abuse/misuse.
Who would you trust to manage and control the monitoring system? Your government? The United Nations? Your local police department? Your favourite church/religion/cult/sect?
CSharpMinor's Recent Submissions
9 020357,39160027,00.htm
5 31&cid=5&cname=Asia+%26+Pacific
Title Datestamp
Japanese Primary Schools to Tag Students with RFID Sunday July 11, @09:12PM Rejected
Methinks I dislike Michael.
I had more links, to boot.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,3
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=9
I think CNN had a story, too, but I can't find it.
Whatever it is I'm complaining about, I'm sure the Republicans did it. This is
I just wanna see the face on whoever's monitoring this thing as some kid straps his/her nametag to a rocket and launches it past a bunch of ditectors really fast....
Go on, be afraid. Encourage the terrorists
Then its possible that they might be .... GASP! reliable and good parents !
I was just in Osaka (last week), and I noticed some smaller school children who had this small clear electronics-looking box on one of their backpacks' shoulder straps. students at the same school tend to have the same backpacks and atire, so that would explain why I saw so few -- not totally widespread yet.
You sir, are my hero.
Japan is far from having the "lowest crime rate imaginable"
And the Antichrist causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.
And that no man might buy or sell, save except he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Does this mean they're going to run the schoolgirl by an RFID reader before they dump buckets of spooge on her face?
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
that option aside then, and despite the fact the county sherif is the one who brings the drugs into the area (which the FBI has taged as a major entry point for pot and coke on the east coast), local police I trust the most out of all the options. The government is crooked no matter who is in charge, and the UN is crooked and not from around "these here parts." I'm not letting some African track me, sorry, not happening. I don't want anyone doing it, but i am not going to let foreiners in particular.
The More Laws, the less Justice --Marcus Tullius Cicero
If this could prevent child-napping, yes I'd put one on my kids.
The odds of being kidnapped (in general, of course if your area has higher stats, then my arguments change) are so low that this sort of thing doesn't do a lot of good. The odds are very high, however, of RFID tags being used for undesirable purposes (unless RFID is well-regulated with regards to privacy, which seems unlikely at this point).
We have:
1. A dubious benefit.
2. A certain detriment.
In complete seriousness, if my parents had tagged me in this way, I'd be very upset with them. I could forgive ignorance on their part (them being fed the line that this is a good thing, and that there are no drawbacks). I could *not* forgive them if they did this with full knowledge (not that I'd disown them or something, just that there would always be this one issue that, regardless of how good our relationship is, I could not forgive).
Now, in Japan the culture is quite different. This doesn't strike me as being too terribly unacceptable there.
Yeah, like Manhattan's just an island; how could a kid possibly get lost there?
...I would think the primary value of this technology would be to prevent 13 year old schoolgirls from having sex with older men for money.
"Yes, it hurts alot and the men smell really bad and sometimes they get violent...but they pay in cash and now I can afford more stuff to attach to my cell phone! Oh yeah, and the latest Puffy Ami Yumi CD! Yay!"
Or, perhaps, it will help them prevent their daughters from falling through a well into the distant past to find the shards of a magical jewel with a half-demon dog guy.
Or, maybe, it's to stop them from being sucked into a parallel universe where they'll have to fight for the affections of an unprepossessing young boy who is involved in a love duodecahedron with several retired military officers, an alien soul installed in a cloned body and Rara's personal assistant. It's also scary having to fight daily contents in giant robots using only the power of your will.
Or it could be to stop their sons from being abducted by a space pirate, the crown princess of Jurai, the greatest scientist in the universe, two galaxy police officers, a small rabbit-cat that transforms into a spaceship and a magical 8 year old girl who can make space pirates and crown princesses become lesbian lovers with the power of her magical love bow.
Oh god, somebody help me!!! I have to stop watching the anime...but I can't...I CAN'T!!!!!
Remember kids, RFID is a four letter word!
Learn something new.
The article states that "school authorities in the Japanese city of Osaka have decided the benefits outweigh the disadvantages and will now be chipping children in one primary school." The submitter states "Japanese schoolchildren in the city of Osaka will be tagged with RFID tags."
Actually, the the Kinki Bureau of Telecommunications of the Ministry of Public Management, Home Affairs, Posts and Telecommunications (an organization you probably would not refer to as "school authorities," which happens to be located in the city of Osaka, Osaka prefecture) will be testing RFID tags with the cooperation of an elementary school in the city of Tabe, Wakayama prefecture.
You can read an accurate article here.
... Till some wiseguy records grades in the thing. You can scan your kid to see how they did in their class that day. Hell, maybe they'll wire up the bathroom (The Japanese have the BEST lavatory technology.) "I'm sorry. You can't come in till your grades improve."
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
One of the (many) unintended consequences of this will be that parents and authorities will have a higher perceived confidence level but a lower real confidence level.
Current situation: Parent sends child to school. Did they get there? Probably, based on past behavior and other factors, but not necessarily definitely. Therefore, the parents continue to assert controls and recieve feedback (aka nagging and snooping) over time to increase the liklihood of the child going to school and behaving safely.
Proposed situation: Parent sends child to school. Did they get there? Definitely, based on the feedback from the sensors at the school. Parents don't need to check and reinforce behavior (spy and nag), because they can be sure that their little darling is safe at school. Except that only the tag is at school, in their little darling's friend's bag. Little darling is skipping school and is currenly at a bukkake shoot earning some extra coin.
I'll stick with the nagging and snooping.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Much to Skinner's dismay, only Martin volunteered to get the tracking device implanted into his skull.
Wait, he's such a good student....just like all Japanese kids! We may be on to something here.
[tinfoil_hat_on] This will cause more problems than it will solve. [/tinfoil_hat_on]
Read or seen Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban? Mischief managed?
but is RFID making some kinda huge headlines lately on slashdot? perhaps cowboyneal has purchased some stock? OR MAYBE works for the evil bad not nice dudes! AH HA!!
#define TinHat 1
#define Libretarian 0
Now before I start, understand that we are talking about younger children, but whats to stop the gov't from RFIDing highschool students?
Personally, I've needed my freedom as a teen to grow up a well balanced individual (so far).
I don't do drugs, I make it home by my lenient curfew, ~12:30 AM, and I drive myself the 20 miles into work.
If kids do stupid things as teens, it's the fault of the parents for not teaching good morals, although the society shares amost if not the same amount of blame for whatever it's youth do.
I was worried about getting beat up/abducted, so I joined a local Karate Dojo on my own, no parent input aside from the consent on the legal paperwork.
I have my own checking/bank account, that I have made as secure as possible, My bank knows to only cash and allow withdrawls when I am present, my parent's have no control, and they support me 100%.
You do realise the tags are being put in their schoolbags, on their clothes, nametags, etc? It's not like they're being injected under the skin. How old would you child have to be to take apart the lining of their bag and rip the tag out, or to leave the nametag somewhere, if they really wanted?
"Why are you watching the washing machine?"
"I love entertainment, as long as it's clean"
As an adult, I'm very concerned about the idea of being able to track innocent people as they move about. I'm quite amenable to the idea of being able to trace the movements of known criminals as they reintegrate into society, but not innocent schoolkids.
As a parent of young kids, I'm very interested in a solution that would let me ensure my kids are safe and well. If I could tell where my kids were at any time, say within a 50-100 metre radius, I'd feel significantly better.
BTW, as many people have pointed out, there are implementation issues with this particular situation: kid takes off schoolbag and he/she is no longer traceable. However, that's not going to be the case for long; all that needs to happen is for this solution to become entrenched as "normal" and very quickly we'll start having chips embedded under the skin or somewhere that they aren't easily removed.
Are you a divorced parent? Because you realize how miniscule the odds of your child being abducted are by anyone other than your vengeful spouse? That violent abduction by molesters, Satanists and boogeymen happens to one in half a million children?
Not to say it isn't a terrible thing when it does happen-- but despite what sensationalist news stories and worried PTA members have told us our entire lives, it should really not be a concern, certainly not enough to embrace a technology that can only lead to abuse.
'Silence, Humans! We used to be exactly like you. Flawed. Weak. Organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic. Now we use both to attain perfection. Those who disagree are wrong, and must be assimilated.'
I, for one, welcome our new RFID masters.
Real programmers use "copy con program.exe"
But where is this leading... RFIDs on Japanese children now, criminals worldwide in 3 years, American and European Kids in 5 years, then in 12 years when all the kids are adults.... well... everyone has them.... With all new technology there is always the privacy issue, and quite frankly my boss doesn't need to know when I go for a smoke break, or go to the washroom, and the government don't need to know when I got home last night, and where I was prior to that
This is one technology where the privacy issues far outweigh the potential benefits if it sees wide spread, long term use
Now to make a tinfoil hat
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
I don't think anyone thinks this kind of thing is bad, except for the potential 'misuse' (a concept which varies from person to person, slippery slope, etc).
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
NOBODY expects the Third Man Argument.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
Apparently kidnappers will never use RFID readers to find the most desirable kids (rich, paranoid parents) and jammers to cover their tracks.
I guess they lack imagination.
I know that a lot of people today don't read the Bible. Some people even look at like it's just a book written by man. Most people won't touch it because it's been so prevented by a few people to control the masses in so many churches all over the world. However, just read Revelation 13:16-18 and think about what WalMart is doing. Think about how in few years you'll have no choice but to take a RFID or you won't be able to buy or sell anything. If this is true, what else is true?
If you're intrested in the truth, go where money is not.
The journey is better then the end.
Why do we need to radio tag everyone with RFID? Isn't everyone already walking around with a cellphone that can track their location/who they are, etc, voluntarily no less?
The current goal is one reduction of school bueracracy and truency rather than stopping crime and abduction. Why not do this more simply with Bluetooth enabled key cards instead? Maybe the goal of taking this the more invasive aims like those is on the horizon, but must be introduced one step to hell at a time.
Get the RFID tags implanted to help locate children in earthquakes and major disasters. Get long lasting bio-driven versions that will survive between school sessions and vacations to protect against abductors. Widely deploy readers to track school kids who might choose to vandalize a school. Will the tags be removed at the end of one's education? No, they're harmless. Within a few generations you have a populace with high percentages of people already RFID tagged and having no problems. Require it of everyone.
If the current uses are "just" to reduce bueracracy, I'd definitely side with technologies that would not be easily expandable to a more trecherous slope.
You likely have that point of view because you grew up in a world *without* RFID. If the practice is standard from the time you're 3 years old, you won't get upset with your parents - to you it'll just be normal... scary.
Well you can call me RFID!
I wonder what anyone with those initials would think .
http://siokaos.org/
This is going to sound strange coming from a Security Engineer, but sometimes you have to call 'em as you see 'um. Here is a relevant quote from Robert Heinlein...
"When a place gets crowded enough to require IDs, it's time to move elsewhere."
I can only imagine what he would have thought of implanted RFIDs.
As an English teacher at a Japanese elementary school, I'd like to explain a few things about how the commuting works for students here.
. pl5 ?ek20040520ag.htm
Almost no kids in Japanese public schools are driven to school by their parents. It is not against the rules, but is generally discouraged. Public schools generally do not have buses, though some students will take a bus if their parents can afford it and they live far from school. Middle and high school students might bike or take a train, but those are often off-limits for elementary students, who must either walk or come by bus (Kids generally go to the local elementary/middle school, but there are exams for high school, which might require a long trip every day).
In my small rural town (pop. 7000), and in many other places, elementary and middle school students who are walking/biking must follow certain routes to and from school. Teachers are posted at locations along the route to check up on the students. But, they can't be everywhere. The middle school in my town has recently had problems with middle-aged men approaching female students. Students are out in the open for a much longer period of time than in the US and are thus bigger targets.
That said, I don't want to see my students given RFID tags. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it became very popular here. Elementary and middle school students already have tags with their full name and the school's name on it which must be worn at all times. Also, nearly all middle and high schools have uniforms. With all this required attire, it's hard for students to go someplace after school that they're not supposed to be, and this is part of the point. People will even sometimes complain to a school if they see its students doing something they don't approve of. There is already a lot of monitoring in place here, and I don't see this as being a big shift.
Related article -
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle
PS - It's not that important, but the CNET article is poorly written and unclear. Osaka city and Wakayama prefecture are completely seperate places, but someone who knows very little about Japan might think that Osaka city is the small "town" in Wakayama where the RFID tags are being tested. Anyone have a better article?
"The Nazi's had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear"
Isn't this what happened to those "special" children ('Thirds', were they?) in Ender's Game? And look at what a wonderful dude he turned out to be!
Oh, wait....
. . . expended all that time and effort for nothing, trying for seven years after WW2 to "democratize" Japan.
Yes, he managed to "un-deify" the Emperor;
but, sixty years later, the Japanese people still exhibit a Hive Mind.
It's sad.
Seriously, someone needs to come up with some better categories for slashdot stories. I have been seeing things in this category in the past that didn't belong here, but this...
Your Rights
Everyone here who is a japanese schoolkid, please respond to this post. Don't worry, I just want to know how many are reading this post. Anyway, we wouldn't get far with that RFID implant thingie anyway.
Online
Maybe. But not really. It's not like they are going to be prohibited from downloading music or having their email read or anything.
I never been so broke that I couldn't leave town.
If this could prevent child-napping, yes I'd put one on my kids.
But it wouldn't. An RFID detector would be easy enough to buy or manufacture from parts you could get at Radioshack. If the tag is injected under the skin you'd use the detector to locate it, then cut it out.
Remember, it's not as if the kidnapper is at all concerned with the welfare of the child. Cutting out a small hunk of flesh isn't going to bother them. And a canny kidnapper would do something interesting with that hunk of flesh - like tape it to the underside of someone else's car so the police would waste time trying to locate and storm(trooper) the house of some innocent.
There is no upside to tagging kids in the crime prevention department. The only use that such a system has is to track the child itself, for the benefit of the parents (in terms of control) or the government (also in terms of control).
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
imagine a Beowolf cluster of... hold on, I gotta visit the bathroom real quick.
I must say, this invention is great! Now they can run but they'll never hide!
Sincerely,
P. Dophile.
PS: with this invention, parents will never lose their RFID tags again!
out of curiosity why did you mention the UN in that list?
seriously, they are the last organization i would have do, well anything of any importance.
the problem with technology like this though is that it makes us feel too comfortable. "oh that person was at the crime scene he must have done it" and justice will fail when you rely on that.
if you are gonna treat previously released criminals as criminals, then they shouldnt be released (no, parole doesnt count on that one because they were out earlier than the full sentance they had).
granted your statistic does hold up, but when you treat someone as a criminal, they might as well be a criminal and in prison.
i didnt bother with the abuse/misuse by authority because thats a given. im all for the authorities to having tools to solve crime, but that will never cover treating the general population or a segment of that population in a free society, as criminals.
Really, I do. And I think it should be enforced on the population as a whole, with something that can't easily be removed, like an injectable microchip.
As a professional assassin, it'd make my job a hell of a lot easier in terms of tracking the movements of the mark and hitting him with the best chance of escaping undetected. And since I often need to be technically savvy in order to do my job with the least amount of risk, I'm quite sure I'll be able to disable my own tag while the hit goes down - or even better, spoof someone else's tag.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
honestly i would take it out way before i was old enough.
there is a thing as trust, and this type of garbage doesnt instill it.
and its not about preventing kidnapping, the chance of that is so low its not even worth the worry.
i would be more worried about children being killed by bee stings because that probably, unsuprisingly has a higher incident rate than kidnappings.
He knows what he's talking about, unlike most of the Insightful-modded posts so far.
Since this article is talking about elementary school students, I'm really disgusted by the number of Funny-modded jokes about tentacle rape and spooge and what not. Sickos. You know, those kinds of anime & manga are much more popular in the US than in Japan, so despite its origin, what does that say about who are really the pervs?
But, for what its worth, despite Japan's reputation for being a safe country (which it generally is when talking about violent crime/theft/drug crimes), there is a disproportionately high rate of child abuse, kidnapping, rape, and violent attacks against young children.
I don't think RFID tags on kids is the answer, though. Its a big social problem and needs to be worked on from more than just the preventative angle.
..will someone think of the children !
Let the Japanese, and the Chinese, and the Russians, and the French, and the Saudi Arabians tag themselves. Easier for us to track them. Just don't try that crap in America. Live free or die.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
if it saves one kid, then it's worth it... ...that you are one of those parents you sometimes see in the mall who walks their kid around on a leash too. Tracking chips and leashes are for dogs damn it. To many people have forgotten that children are human beings and deserve some respect and dignity. Like everything in live the pendulum can swing too far in either direction. very oerprotective behaviour, in my opinion, damages kids every bit as much as an alcoholic parent that smacks his kids around over spilled milk.
Besides the violation of privacy and dignity, what favours are we doing for our children by such protective treatment? What is the result when we mandate by some oficial decree constant monitoring of a childs every move, allow them to only play with toys made of soft rubber foam with no corners and make sure to the best of out abilities that they never see or hear anything on print, radio, TV or the Internet that might be the slightest bit offensive or controversial?
I'd say it would mean we have abdicated our resonsibilities as parents to a bunch of distant, beareaucratic social engineers, and result in a generation of dependent, weak, ignorant and cowardly citizens willing to give up anything that matters in life for safety and security, because, after all, it MIGHT save ONE person. this is a dystopian outlook to be sure, but these screwball ideas and your responses are evidence we have moved in that direction.
And I think I know exactly what I'd say to the parent of an abducted child on the matter. I'd say I hope they catch the bastard who took your kid and throw him in jail for the rest of his life. Fact is, the reason so many kids go missing is because of dysfunctional legal and family-welfare systems. It is very rare and tragic when a child is kidnapped by a complete stranger with no history of criminal behaviour or abuse. More often the kidnapper is a non-custodial parent, step parent, relative or other person known to the victim. Lot of good RF tags would to then--"oh yeah...my kid is seeing his mum"--until mum runs for the border with him. in cases of strange abduction, the kidnapper is always some kind of deviant--psychotic, a paedophile, raised in an abusive situation, a substance abuser, etc. Tragically, their stories are most often known before the abduction.
The way we deal with child abduction borders on perversion where I live (Canada). People conviced of kidnapping or raping children are often put away for as little as three years (maybe less), and the sentences rarely get worse for repeat offences. Only absolute monsters get put away indefinitely as a dangerous offender--generally they have to kill first.
And you think tagging children is a good way to solve the problem? If we are going to add more restrictions to anyones freedom, how about we start with the CRIMINALS instead? Let's forget about these damn RF tags and throw incurable and repeat violent offenders in jail for life, and never give them a chance to be released. That, and leave the rest of us law-abiding citizens the hell alone.
Japanese schoolkids have enough pressure to deal with as it is. Tagging them like animals isn't going to do them good. Just how high a youth suicide rate do they want?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
This is stupid. If it is about truancy, those parents who do care are already making sure their kids aren't truant eg. by punishing them when they find out. Japanese schools like many other countries, take roll-calls. Those who don't care - well this scheme won't make them care any more. If it is about protecting the kids - well unless its surgically implanted in their brain any decent criminal will be able to get around it easily and all this scheme provides is a false sense of security.
"Children don't have a "right" to privacy."
Entirely correct. Virtually anywhere in the world, you're perfectly entitled to do everything possible to ensure that your child will become a life-long depressive self-loathing dependent inadequate fscked-up sociopath.
Shall we continue to discuss it strictly in legalisms?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/07/13/mexic o.chip.reut/index.html
While its not explicitly RFID, it is a chip that allows him to be tracked, and to access information and thats close enough. Whats worse is hes making his staff do it. Imagine if you boss could tell you to do such a thing or youd be fired. and all this time christians are obsessing over a damn number or UPC bardcodes. Puuuhhhleeezz... this is the real deal. XD
"We don't need no RF-IDs!"
One of the things you have to look at is that today's society has changed. Before we really worried too much about the dangers of living in this world we had community.
Before children and adults for that matter were watched and tracked my other members of the community. In stead of...
You would have had...
But modern day is go go go and fornicate fornicate instant gratification. Hence the push for that same neighborhood watch bundled into a small neat package implanted under the skin. So for many parents this is a godsend because it provides that sense of security you used to have.
I presume you would envision this more in an urban setting rather then your small towns and villages in rural areas.
> SELECT * FROM brain_cells WHERE synaptic_rate > 0
0 row returned
This may be the first time I've ever seen a potential Slashdot major meme start. This could easily reach the level of:
...
...
* Natalie Portman, naked and petrified
* Pouring hot grits down the front of my pants
* In SOVIET RUSSIA
* Imagine a Beowulf cluster of
May we never see th
Well, it's possible that Japanese schoolgirls' used underwear has been RFID tagged during its product cycle already, so this is just getting closer to the source, right?
Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
Here is a sampling of crime that happened in one day in Japan (July 10th): Knife-wielding maniac cuts up 2nd-grade boy and 4-year-old http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20040710-0000106 9-mai-soci
Bomb-making manual discovered from home of dentist who blew himself up
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20040710-0000106 8-mai-soci
Wife has affair with man, kills husband
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20040710-0000030 4-yom-soci
Single Mother's boyfriend punches 1-year-old, causing massive internal injuries
http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0710/011.html
School teacher pulls down 4th-grade boy's underwear and hides them
http://www.sanspo.com/sokuho/0710sokuho025.html
15-year-old dumps newborn baby in trash can, killing her
http://news13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/newsplus/10894 30808/
4th grade schoolteacher orders students to punch pupil who didn't do homework
http://www.sankei.co.jp/news/040710/sha035.htm
24-year-old mother drowns 3-year-old in bathtub
http://news13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/newsplus/10894 05680/
5th grader gets bookbag impaled by knife-wielding maniac
http://news16.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/dqnplus/108939 2047/
High school girl commits suicide on train tracks, exploding into strawberry jello
http://www.sankei.co.jp/news/040710/sha044.htm
The military.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Here is a sampling of crime that happened in one day in Japan:
4 0710-0000106 9-mai-soci
0 0106 8-mai-soci
1 0-0000030 4-yom-soci
1 0/011.html
h tml
/ 10894 30808/
0 35.htm
p lus/10894 05680/
u s/108939 2047/
. htm
Knife-wielding maniac cuts up 2nd-grade boy and 4-year-old
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=200
Bomb-making manual discovered from home of dentist who blew himself up
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20040710-00
Wife has affair with man, kills husband
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=200407
Single Mother's boyfriend punches 1-year-old, causing massive internal injuries
http://www.asahi.com/national/update/07
School teacher pulls down 4th-grade boy's underwear and hides them
http://www.sanspo.com/sokuho/0710sokuho025.
15-year-old dumps newborn baby in trash can, killing her
http://news13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/newsplus
4th grade schoolteacher orders students to punch pupil who didn't do homework
http://www.sankei.co.jp/news/040710/sha
24-year-old mother drowns 3-year-old in bathtub
http://news13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/news
5th grader gets bookbag impaled by knife-wielding maniac
http://news16.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/dqnpl
High school girl commits suicide on train tracks, exploding into strawberry jello
http://www.sankei.co.jp/news/040710/sha044
Then who is a criminal? I understand if you would like to tag people under probation like in Sweden, but attaching a radio tag for every ex-con? Isn't the whole idea of sentence that it will "wash out" your criminal activity and after that you should get a fresh start, not as a second class citizen but as a normal citizen for your capability and skills?
Then think about the Big Brother aspect: They say that in a police state, only criminals have to be afraid - and in a police state, you will become a criminal. The reason we are so afraid of giving power to the government is the possibility to abuse it. Think the situation in Burma, for example. You are a criminal if you oppose the military regime. Then get your RFID, and you can't run away or hide.
Today, There is no way to reveal my identity and position automatically, and I don't have a reason why I should keep those secret. As long as I don't have a reason to keep my position and identity secret, should I worry for my right to keep my identity and position secret? You bet! The latter is much easier for government to change.
?SYNTAX ERROR
Just a thought, can somebody think up some abuses that aren't that far fetched? Sure, it's easy to imagine RFID tags being used to round up undesirables, but most people don't think that's ever going to happen (in a civillized country anyway. And keep in mind I'm talking about people's perceptions not reality).
The worst I can come up with is politicians using the data for smear campaigns against their opponents. Maybe some sicko using it to stalk somebody. Both are things that'll affect a pretty small margin of people.
Anyway, we all whine about the privacy implications, but most people don't care about privacy as long as noone sees 'em nekkid. Is there a better arguement against this? If not, I see it as inevitable.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The word You were looking for is: 'person' not human...or what, we're half-monkeys when young?(mmmh ok, sometimes children behave like that).
Smokin' & rubying away
Is anyone thinking of the rights of the children here?
Oh wait, I forgot, children are *objects* owned by their parents - my bad.
Anybody and their dog would want one of 'em.
Smokin' & rubying away
But there's also this, which fits the definition provided in grandparent post: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reductio+ ad+absurdum&r=67
"Disproof of a proposition by showing that it leads to absurd or untenable conclusions."
My guess is there are multiple meanings out there. You know how those philosophers and logicians are...
Yeah, there's an i in reductio. Silly latin.
I'm quite certain you are wrong (about me specifically and assuming all else remains the same). If you just meant 'you' in general, then I agree that it's likely most people wouldn't care.
I tend to care about things that most people just shrug at. You'd have to change *that* about me for me to not care about being RFID tagged.
Every time someone gets kidnapped over there I wonder if something like this would work.
> out of curiosity why did you mention the UN in that list?
My list of suggested authorative entities suitable for the management and implementation of a independent and incorruptible global individual human position tracking system was meant as a joke.
I would not trust any of them.
I mentioned the UN because they are more or less the closest thing we have to a 'world-government'. Or not. I think all they do is argue and squabble amongst each other and nobody listens to them, something like that.
Or reason B: I've read too much old Sci-Fi, which generally rather optimistically paints a future in which the UN *IS* the world-government. Yeah right.
You obviously do not have children (at least, not to whom you are actually filling the role of a father), and I sincerely hope that you will straighten out your thinking before you even consider having any. Or go out and get yourself snipped this week.
If you do not involve yourself in your children's lives, specifically including knowing where they are going, with whom they are associating, and what they are doing, they will turn out exactly as you describe. And/or kidnapped and sexually assaulted, maybe even killed, by some weirdo. Or on drugs. Or in juvie, and prison after that.
Not only do children not have a right to privacy, parents have a moral obligation to make sure they know the things described above.
Watch out for the 666th kid they tag this way...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Hey, who better to do drugs than kids? What are you gonna fuck up at age 16 that you can't bounce back from - what, you going to get a F?
I can't do drugs any more - At my age I have shit to do. I can't go on a 2 day acid binge cos I have to move my car on street sweeping day. Drugs are for kids.
Paraphrased from a piece by the guy in my sig
I personally wouldn't tag my kids, but i'm only 20, so i'm also ready to admit that my attitude may change by the time i actually have kids
/. so you're probably a geek. if you were tagged with an RFID chip all day, particularly when you were in that inquisitive age at school, wouldn't you try your hardest to disassemble it, see how it worked, try to reprogram it? it's a child's natural instinct to push the boundaries. kids like to see what they can do. and if some smartass kid finds out a workaround, then he'll be able to act with nigh impunity.
but what i think is bad about this is that it gives parents the illusion of knowing what their kids are up to. most people are lazy. they'll reckon that the kids won't try anything if they know they're being tracked.
bulls[h|p]it.
think about this. you're reading
in my opinion this is the tool of the uninterested parent. it's the sort of thing that would be used by a parent who lets TV raise their child. if you're involved with your child, and if you're intersted, then you won't need to tag your child.
if you're not and you feel the need to tag your child, then you shouldn't be allowed, thus providing you with more incentive to get involved
a child who's been over parented is still better than a child who's been under parented
and if you see me strut, remind me of what left this outlaw torn...
maybbe you really don`t understand what "666" is all about. but i1l give you a clue.... everyone rich or poor, small, or great has to to take the mark or else! meaning if you don`t take it you get killed, or prison or both. wake up!
Even if RFID tags can be removed, you can still know the last place where the child was seen. This will help tremendously in the efforts to find eye witnesses and find out what had actually happened.
RFID tagging a bunch of small school children wondering around a big metropolis might be a smart thing after all, don't you think?
It's like RFID tagging luggage at the airports. You can find the luggage more easily if you need to (=it gets lost).
Problem with the 'tag criminals' idea is that you'll have so many tags wandering around that you won't know what to look out for. We (Americans at least) live in a country where you can go to prison for bringing a camcorder into a theater, and all someone needs to do to make you a convicted sex offender is call the police and cry rape. If you set up a tracking system based on who the government decides is a criminal/terrorist and whatnot, you'll be left with only a few people including aristocrats and politicians who have no tracking devices.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
uhh i was afraid we are talking about some of those japanese porn movies the net is full of - scat, children and so on. NUKE THEM AGAIN!!!!
'd tell 'em they have it when they're old enough to understand. And if they don't like, when they're old enough they can take it out themselves.
Of course, by that time they'll be so familiar with cutting their wrists that it should be no problem at all.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
Even worse, once "everyone" has it, people will start linking things to it (like they currently do with social security numbers). Imagine not being able to order food at a restaurant because you're not tagged, and hence are not "verifiable", or being able to enter a movie theatre or concert, because you could "be one of those subversives."
Of course, the criminals will have a field day - once they can wand you to verify your ID, people might just stop looking at photo IDs (which are easy enough to fake anyways), making false transmitters a great way of ripping people off (cloning car key transmitters, or cellphones, anyone?)
The key argument, of course, will be - "Well, if you have nothing to hide, then this shouldn't be a problem, right?" That one and the other argument, "Only criminals fear more government. We citizens have nothing to be afraid of..."
On the other hand if all the soldiers had tracking tags physically implanted the current hostage taking problem in Iraq wouldn't be nearly as bad.
If this could prevent child-napping, yes I'd put one on my kids.
I enjoyed nap-time as a child. As an adult, I continue to enjoy the occasional nap. Must we really deprive the children of their naps?
They aren't considered to be full humans, until on their 18th birthday they make an overnight magical transformation into a full adult. Prisoners have more rights than them.
Bitter, or still bitter?
It's not full adult, it's having reached a minimum level of rationality. If it weren't an age limit, it'd be periodic, mandatory testing. Which do you prefer?
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
/s/full adult/fully human/
Please pardon the grammar fascist his little impropriety...
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
I do, have children, and of course I want to know all the important things in their lifes, but I will never abuse of my super-powers of father to take away their privacy, because confidence is also an inportant part in the relationships between parents and children.
The old Christians, Nazis, slavists, the KKK, they all, also thought that they had a moral obligation to make sure thing will be as they should, even if it meant to burn "wiches",kill Jewish , Islamist, and black people.
Life is a human right, as privacy is.
Taking away the privacy of a person is only the fist step towards the wrong path.
As the saying says:"If you hold a bird with too much force you will kill it, if you do it too weak the bird will escape."
Since this has been the first attempt at continuous tracking, your logic concludes that, so far, every able-bodied child in the history of the world not subjected to imprisonment in the home has grown up into a depressive self-loathing dependent inadequate fscked-up sociopath.
Including yourself, whence your psychological state is too unstable for you or anyone else to trust your own reasoning anyway.
Congratulations on another self-defeating argument!
An Open Letter To
The US Congress
Commentary
From an American Citizen
7-14-4
To the Members of the US Congress -
I'm extremely alarmed at the Newsweek article on MSNBC today, and related articles earlier this week, indicating that the Bushites have asked Ashcroft, through Ridge's department, to look into legal precedents (as they did for torture earlier) that would enable them to justify the suspension or postponement of our nation's democratic elections in November.
I have been predicting to those who would listen for over two years now that if the 2004 election is close, the Bushites would rig the system to enable them, through the use of Diebold voting machines and similar devices manufactured by corporations extremely loyal to the Bushites, to steal a second consecutive democratic election. In states throughout the US the Florida chad fiasco has been used to justify statewide contracts to Diebold and other Bush supporters to install machines that leave no paper trail (no way to prove our votes) and which can be easily broken into (per recent studies) in about 15 seconds by operatives. Obviously, citizens who love democracy should be alarmed at the implications. In a relatively close election (say, within a few million votes), the Bushites can easily make the winning votes simply "disappear" in a few key districts nationwide and steal the next election.
However, in an election in which the vote spread is significant, e.g. a projected landslide victory for the Kerry-Edwards ticket, I've predicted for more than a year that the Bushites would be unwilling to peacefully surrender the White House, and that they would obviously use the same tactic -- I am convinced (if you aren't, read: "The New Pearl Harbor") -- that worked so well for them on Sept. 11, 2001: They would once again engineer a politically strategic attack on the USA and, once again, blame Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda for the attack.
For several months now I've been convinced that in a scenario where Bush-Cheney were to be soundly defeated, they would probably arrange through secret operatives in the DIA, private security forces, or other black ops to detonate a "dirty bomb" (radiological weapon) in a major urban area, probably LA, SF, NY or possibly Miami or Chicago. I personally wouldn't put it past them to make the Democratic National Convention "ground zero" for this attack!!! The official line would blame the attack on al Qaeda and be used as a pretext (just as 9/11 was used as a pretext for the Bushites private oil grab in Afghanistan and Iraq) to suspend the democratic election and give the Bushites a convenient excuse to perhaps even declare a state of martial law in the country, including the presumed enactment of even far more sinister legislation further depriving innocent Americans of our civil liberties.
Now, to my great alarm, it's obvious, if you read the recent news, that the Bushites are panicking about the election and have aggressively begun a campaign this week to implement this second more alarming option. Today's Newsweek article indicates that, under the auspices of Ridge's department, the Bushites are actively preparing to suspend the elections and will likely attempt to enact emergency legislation of some sort for the very reasons I've been indicating. Through the news media, they are obviously initiating an attempt to condition the masses to accept the inevitability of a major attack and are actively seeking a legal basis to justify postponing or suspending the election. Since they will be responsible for the attack, they can predict it with absolute certainty. And when it occurs, they will proclaim themselves soothsayers and prophets of the first order!
This is an exceedingly alarming new development. I believe the most dangerous moment in the history of our nation is fast approaching -- at least the most dangerous in my lifetime, and since McCarthy. But the peril seems much greater to me than that posed by that self-righteous Republican demagogue. If the Democ
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Its known that RFID can be hacked, so whats to stop anyone replacing the ID on a book with 'their' ID... parents will assume the little blip on the map is their child "my, how safe they are, i'm glad i've got this"...
and if it's to stop such rare events like a kidnapping, wouldnt the clever kidnapper disable the rfid tag?
at the end of the day, the outcome is that most of the people, most of the time, are tagged.
Osaka is a city of around 3 million people. Wakayama is a city with about 300,000 people. Can't see how they could be confused.
Not saying I am doubting this story, but I haven't been able to find any information on the story in Japanese. I read the papers and watch the Japanese news every day and haven't heard anything about this either. Where does CNET and the register get its information?
The whole idea makes sense though. There have been a couple of incidents involving children recently - a 12 year old girl killed an 11 year old girl, a boy of a similar age slashed a classmate, etc. I heard about one school where the school had a list of all of the parents cell phone email addresses. If something happened at the school they parents would be mailed immediately. They ended up putting it into action a month ago. The parents were emailed that the police had reported there was a flasher (or some kind of pervert) somewhere around the school that day, and they were cancelling classes. The parents were in the loop and could come and pick the kids up immediately.
But it can't. RFID has such limited range that you have to have a pretty good idea of where the child is before you can use the RFID to locate it. A kidnapper can easily defeat this. From what I've read, the RFID is used to alert people when the kids stray near known dangerous places.
quote: The project requires tag readers to be installed at the school and attached to any such undesirable locale outside.
You didn't bother to read the story...
"The chips will be put onto kids' schoolbags, name tags or clothing in one Wakayama prefecture school"
They are in no way implanted under skin. Put the tag in a metal box or even wrap in up in tin foil and your privacy in ok.
All your children are belong to us.
Nonaggression works!
It is, but is the RFID method a good way of preventing crime, or is it more just a way of discouraging it, like say, macrovision for DVD ripping?
If you really want to stop crimes, you need to educate people, not tag them.
Now you can track your little "Billy" as he roams about the neighborhood.
...imagining a bunch of small children at recess with cowbells on?
I guess after all that testing on tracking peoples pets during the 90's has moved on. Now we must track out most addored pets, our own family. I'm sure this will come in use when the 40 year old Alpha male wishes to track his wife, who is bored and dare i say "tired", when she is out with her friends for a meet up at the country club. Because he is scared she might sleep with one of the divorced members on the trot.
- Japanese schoolchildren mistakingly land up in prison due to prisonbus falsely identifying RFID-tags as type "prisoner"
- Prisoners are issued schooluniforms and released by mistake
- Cattle shows up in schoolclass - a mystery unfolds
Not meant to be funny really - this is a bleak prospect for mankind.
But I guess there are already a few PHB's wondering whether equipping their employees with RFID would ease their hour-registration problems...
If I don't do it... somebody else will...
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
> Students are out in the open for a much longer period of time than in the US
Wow, that sounds so degenerated.
I easily survived 13 years of walking / biking to school in Germany as did most of my friends.
The only person of our school who got raped and killed was raped and killed by her uncle. Four people died in car accidents - while sitting IN the car.
The most dangerous people to your children are not the people on the street but your family. That's statistically evident.
> tags with their full name and the school's name on it which must be worn at all times.
Where I live parents teach there children their name, address and telephone number.
> it's hard for students to go someplace after school that they're not supposed to be, and this is part of the point.
This is soooooo wrong. When are they supposed to learn to make use of freedom and to make their own decisions if they don't have the chance to do so as a child?
k2r
The hostage takers would simply remove the tags with a sharp object.
It's not full adult, it's having reached a minimum level of rationality. If it weren't an age limit, it'd be periodic, mandatory testing. Which do you prefer?
Somehow I prefer the idea of periodic mandatory testing. Still, I have two primary questions:
1) When would testing begin (and how often would it be done)?
2) What do you do with the people over 18 that can't show a minimum level of rationality (and how do you determine if they've tricked the test, which could go for those that pass it under age, as well)?
#1 would reintroduce some arbitrary numbers into the system, and #2 introduces some issues with priviledges and rights that are given to people at certain ages. After all, if someone doesn't show a minimum level of rationality, should they be allowed to drive? vote? buy tobacco? consume alcohol?
In the end, we're stuck with arbitrary numbers that make little sense. Even the testing itself would introduce fairly arbitrary numbers unless the scores required were adjusted periodically according to the levels generally found in the population.
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Must we really deprive the children of their naps?
I think the poster was trying to remove the emphasis on kidnapping, because calling children kids is really an insult, not all of them look like goats.
I read some of the "dehumanizing" articles with a bit of a smile. If any of you are working for a large corporation you are already tagged. Every large company I worked for (Tandy, CSC, Lockheed, Sprint, Sabre) required all employees to carry a RFID badge and you could not get into the work area unless you had your badge. In three of the places (Tandy, Lockheed, Sabre) you could not get OUT unless you had your badge.
Badge readers were strategically placed at the entrances/exits of all buildings/floors so movement could be restricted to designated areas.
Doing the same in the schools would provide security because you would know that the only people on the school grounds are people who are suppose to be there. If a child does not show up for class you know the last set of doors the child walked past and when.
As far as dehumanizing look at your friends and colleagues that have professional jobs and see if they still have their soul.
Peon 3 of 5, Assimilated 1993
Why? I thought most of the hostages were civilians, not soldiers.
just a thought, but do you have kids? have you taken this route with them?
This is a great idea because someone needs to look after the children while their parents are at the Love Hotel. Seriously
Are any of you under 30? (Not that I am!) That was a great show in its day, but is it even on cable anywhere in the US (or in the world, for that matter)?
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
"This is happening here because of an epidemic of kidnappings and murders in the last few years. Parents are really scared. Just this week there were two stories in the news, one a middle aged school teacher who tried to abduct two girls, and the other a 50 something policeman caught in molestation. Every week brings more stories. It has me scared too.
"On top of that, the 'youth culture' here is really out of control. Parents are just scared silly that their kids are heading into Tokyo to work the streets for quick yen. The girls selling sex, of course, and the boys doing muggings and the like.
"There are real problems and parents are desperate for any kind of solution."
are they guinea pigs or something? this is bordering on the insane. thus begins the cyborg race! i presume we will see an early cyborg who's got the recent MS chips so that the employers and identify how much time an employee spends (no, make that wastes) in the loo. or how many times the kid doesnt attend school.the govt needs to know what you are doing... and other associated "useful things" using the chips... help!
It seems to me that while the potential for abuse is high, potential for assistance is equally high.
Perhaps to alleviate the grief people see in placing these devices in/on children/law abiding citizens, we should just place them on criminals.
Perhaps we would be violating the rights of these criminals, however, since they violated their rights or those of someone elses (thats why they are criminals right?) we should be able to track them, especially while on parole.
This would be a boon to the sex offender tracking system that could ensure that registered sex offenders stay away from places like schools.
There are numerous other applications on criminals without violating the privacy and rights of the law abiding public.
Eat a Chicken, You know you want to.
That thing wont do any real good if the guts of it have been fried- it might indicate that you had one but it'd not identify much else.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
This is both sides of the coin. Good idea, bad idea. True it would be great, to check up to make sure your children are getting to school on time, and checking where they like to hang out. What if a pedophile got hold of a frequency list. This would make it easier for them to track a victim down to when the victim is alone.
We already know through poor security people get passwords, bank account info, and credit card numbers, who is to say the same wouldnt happen here.
And for those people who will chime in and say "Pedophile have to register on a list". Well yes they do, but only if they are convicted. What if they have not been caught, are working for the chip makers/distributers and have access to the lists already.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Obviously, the solution is to require kidnappers to also swide the RFID tags into some kind of reader.
I was wondering about the culture difference and the acceptance of this technology. Well, I guess that would be part of my question - is this "no big deal" to the Japanese? Or do they have tinfoil hats over there too? The thing is, in the USA we NEED the tinfoil hats. It has been proven over and over again that we as a culture have a tendency to abuse power. Not that other countries don't, but they don't have our Constitution. We keep saying "freedom freedom freedom" and yet at the same time we don't necessarily honor it all the time.
Maybe in Japan they can implement this technology without worry of abuse because that would be wrong. Or maybe it will be abused, but nobody will care. Anyone know more about modern Japanese culture to comment?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
First of all I have some questions about this. Are these worn or implanted under the skin. If they are just worn what is to keep the kids or kidnappers from taking them off. If they are implanted under the skin there goes human rights. What is there to stop the governments from requiring the people to have them so that we can be tracked anywhere anytime. I for one do not want big brother knowing where I am going and when I get there. I am all for anything to protect children in this world of kidnappers and sickos but at what price for freedom do these things cost . Again if they are implanted at what age are they removed?
And you obviously haven't been a crossdresser as a child. Sometimes there are things you wouldn't want the damn neanderthal in the livingroom to know about.
.MOD PARENT UP
Here in the UK some criminals are radio tagged, often as part of parole or early release for non-violent criminals. Been done for ages.
Seems if I trust the police and prision system to look after criminals when they lock them up, I'd trust them with this (Group 4 private security are another matter). So far, no sign of tagging everyone else.
IIRC Japanese uniforms (for boys anyway) are all the same - prussian military style black. It must make it difficult when there are 5 different schools all visiting the same museum/temple.
Good ol' slippery slope argument, how we have missed you. If we use radio tagging on children or convicts, the rest of us will be next!
As for children, I don't know about your country, but in the UK you get some rights at 16. Giving rights based on age isn't a great way of doing things, but it's the only practical one people have. They are considered fully human, but they aren't considered fully responsible humans.
I know in the US it is possible to get legally emancipated from your parents, and get the rights of an adult sooner.
the nazis did that over 60s years ago using yellow stars :(
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Therefore it follows, that it is in my self-interest (as someone who is in none of these groups) to ensure that members of the military, prisoners and children are accorded their human rights as much as possible.
The lessons learnt in taming and controlling these groups will be used tomorrow against the populous at large.
The ancient Egyptians would wrap the bodie sof the dead tightly in order that the soul would project out. A similar practice was performed with the living, so that when they dreamed their mind would travel to astral realms.
If you watch every move someone makes and chain them (regardless how invisible the tether) some part of them will yearn for freedon and will escape. If kids cannot hide their body from their parents then they will hide their mind, allo wit to run amok social and virtual networks.
To be academic abou it - it is by this same principle that artists are born from social ostracization.
.
-shpoffo
king of gives a new meaning to that familiar childhood phrase "tag, you're it!"
Agreed... what's worse is that usually the same people that say children have the right to do what they want, tend to be the same people that feel parents should loose their kids when something goes wrong. It is so easy for a parent to loose their child in this country. All it takes is someone spreading rumors or blowing a situation out of proportion. Child services will be on you like a monkey on a banana.
I, Sir, am a rather reputable chimpanzee from the jungles of Zaire.
My preferences tend toward the slow-moving beetle or careless flying insect.
Bananas? You insensitive clod!
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
We all could wait till they figure out how to put RFID tags on every spermatozoid or eggcells, so everybody could track where and what goes on, even before kid has born. And the kid then will have the RFID without any action from parents so there is no way of getting a mistrust from kid, when he realises that his balls are makeing interference to the tv. Nobody to blame - "we all are having and it's for our goos sake and To Make World A Better Place". Only bad thing is that kidnapper will have to cut Your sunnys balls off, to get rid of the tags. Or even worse - when kid get's to know about TV interference, he could try to remove (cut) tag unit off himself. Or put his balls into microwave to disable all tronics in them. So, today, RFID tag insertion surgeries are going on, and all people seem to be more than happy to inject this innovation into their everyday... in Japan.
Yeah tell that to a guy I know who overdosed twice when he was 17 and was put in a mental ward. He's out now, deals drugs, and thinks that he's jesus. He showed me a scribbler once where he was working out equations on how astrology relates to the creation of the universe, and how it's possible to direct the course of future by just thinking hard.
;)
Oh well, the guy was always kind of a douche anyway. But it just to show you there *are* things kids can't bounce back from
I would feed it to a stray dog.
Power off before disconnecting connecting connector. Seen on a cash register
I'm the author of the "fscked-up sociopath" post #9694289. From the reactions it has received, I obviously must have expressed myself ineffectually.
My point wasn't that children should be given the rights and independence of adults. My point *was* that children who become "depressive" etc. frequently result from parents who display an autocratic, cold, unloving, "I own your ass" drill-sergeant attitude.
Children shouldn't be given the *rights* of adults, but they *do* deserve the same respect and consideration of their sense of dignity and self-worth. Any parent who uses the phrase "because *I* say so, *that's* why", has failed their duty and their child.
A parent's *ethical* responsibilities vary widely from their legal powers, which is why I spoke disdainfully of speaking in curt brusque legalisms such as "Children don't have a "right" to privacy."
What's this teaching the children? That adults are always checking up on them, that they they're always being monitors and hence can always be got out of any trouble. In short, that they don't need to take responsibility for themselves.
Mobile phones have already had some of this effect, and IDs will have more. Why bother learning how to make arrangement and stick to them? Why bother making the effort to be at the agreed place at the agreed time? After all, you can always call and explain...
Why bother to learn self-discipline, when you know it's always being enforced on you anyway?
If we raise a generation of children who know they don't need to look after themselves, we'll end up with a generation of adults who can't look after themselves.
And I find that just as scary as the civil liberties implications.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
I think you mean this: Where's George?
Power off before disconnecting connecting connector. Seen on a cash register
I'd tell 'em they have it when they're old enough to understand. And if they don't like, when they're old enough they can take it out themselves.
I think that is just horrible. The chance of your kids getting nabbed is pretty low to begin with. This RFID thing demonstrantes a fundamental mistrust in children. Yeah, you tell them they have it to find them if they get nabbed, but how do you think they feel if they know you can track them whereever they go? Now what happens later when other forces want to encourage people to keep their RFID's or even get updated ones to satisfy other "fears."
I'm sorry, but people are getting way too hysterical these days. Yeah, the world is a scary place, but you know what? You just can't give in. You can't cave in to the fear and hand over your or your children's freedom like this! It just isn't right.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Since when did people become like luggage?
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
So, what are "these things..." that "...all start with the same 3 groups" ?
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
You argument doesn't hold water. We already have ID cards. Had 'em for a long time. None of these have come to pass.
The only diff is rfid is like your ID card (drivers license, etcc...) readable from a distance. It doesn't really provide for the social change you are talking about beyond what a plain-old paper id card would.
<tinfoil-hat-on>
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Point one "dubious benefit" shows you didn't read the article.
So what is the "certain detriment" ?
How about an example.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
This will finally curb the menace of Japanese school children once an for all!
All that is necessary for Japanese school children to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Because hostage takers who don't mind killing people will have a problem with cutting out the device or even just microwaving the soldier's hand?
You obviously do not have children
The battle cry of the narrow-minded parent who can't possibly understand that someone else that has children might have a different opinion on how they should be raised.
There's being involved in your child's life and there's being so oppressive they have no choice but to rebel and rebel hard. One of the worst things you can do as a parent is to make your child believe you do not trust him at all.
Let me ask you this: If you treat your child as if he's a criminal, what incentive does he have to not be a criminal? If your home is already a prison, how effective is the threat of prison going to be? And furthermore, how is this complete lack of trust preparing him for life without you?
I would suggest that if you need to track your child's every movement when they are old enough to go places by themselves then you haven't done your job as a parent. Getting children to behave properly when you are with them is trivial. Getting them to behave properly when you aren't with them is what parenting is all about.
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
The Dutch are renowned for their attention to the welfare of children. I'd really like to hear the opinions of any Dutch readers.
Tag 'em, bag 'em, 'cause you don't want no one to grab 'em...
You can't take the sky from me...
Here.
Your child has about 1 in a million chance of being abducted by a non-family member.
Ed.
Japan is already a country where the parents do not spy and nag or parent their children in any way familar to, say, American parents.
Also, in many ways, Japan is already a country where the level of personal resonsibility is diminished, though the reason for that is not that the scope of government has expanded - it's just a feature of the culture. Success of the group has always been valued over one's own success and individuals behave in a way that supports that. There is also no expectation of personal privacy or personal "space".
Wacky country, that Japan. But it's been successful, and with only lipservice paid to the things "the west" would consider critical for a free society. Personally it drove me crazy so I left in my late 20s. But as I get older, and priorities change, it becomes more attractive again. I may retire there eventually.
What are you gonna fuck up at age 16 that you can't bounce back from
Killing a mother of 4 while driving home from a rave?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
I'm just wondering that if they use some type of system that is not self contained and they use it with say "ARCVIEW GIS" and um "GPS" have it connected to a company database, um, do companies like sale that data? It would mean literally a day and night tracking system that my company would gladly consider being the sponser of. Okay. Well I'm anonymouse, so's the company. If the president of the company is really named his real name. :)
:)
Have a nice day.
RFID + Biometrics + Patriot act + DMCA = 1984
of your daughter's condition, but did anyone else instantly think she worked in a stone quarry?
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Give'r a try, what's your score? http://www.alllooksame.com/
Here here! What kind of chaos would this world be in if everyone waited until they were 25 and salaried to drop acid? Back in the day, i could just tell someone to do it but now i have to stop and think, 'hmm will he be realy sober by monday'? Geez what if George W waited until now to start blowing coke?
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
So finally after years a horrible pedo case comes to a conclusing and only a few days later another emerges. A frenchman living in belgium (same country as dutroux) is turned in by his wive (the wive of dutroux got a very hefty sentence for not helping the killed childeren or reporting anything to the police) and he so far confessed to 9 killings.
You got some horrible cases in holland and some nasty ones in holland. People here are very ready for such a scheme.
of course it is all pointless. All the horrific things could have been reduced if the goverment had just been doing it jobs and the cry babies had kept their mouth shut. All of the killers had been well known to the police but somehow failed to be put in jail for life even after raping kids before.
This scheme in japan won't stop them if the criminals caught emerge 2 yrs later from jail, move to another area and aren't known to the local police.
In england a conviced child molester was hired AS A TEACHER. He of course killed two kids and noone in charge of the screw up has so far been shot for being a waste of space.
So my solution, send child molesters to the chair but after you kill all the cry babies who insist people should be allowed to rape two kids. (that is what a second chance amounts to, pedophilia can't be cured, pedo's themselves who know they are in jail for life with no chance out no matter how much they lie admit this.)
Oh and if you insist even these scum deserve a second change since they are now "healed" I have a simple solution. Fine they are let out BUT if they ever offend again you go to the chair with them. Oh you aren't willing to bet your life on the fact they are really cured? Why should someone else bet their kids life on it then? Put your life where your mouth is or shut the fuck up.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
That guy's problem is not that he did drugs, but that he's mentally unstable. Corrolation, Causation, etc.
People with mental "instability" are more likely to take drugs, so someone with a bias to put forward, or someone who doesn't know better could look at the same data & say drugs cause mental problems, when it is the other way 'round.
no, no, it's the USA that doesn't listen to the UN when it disagrees with them. The states is basically like a retarded little kid that won't listen to it's parents and won't grow up. The UN like most parents now adays has no idea what to do to make the child listen to reason.
You, sir, are stupid.
2000 BC; a child is a burnt offering to the false god Molech and various other false gods.
1000 BC; a child has a right to expect to be sexually raped, married against will, and in general treated as a slave.
0; a child is a heritage to God and their birth is his reward. A child is a blessing from heaven and any that dare to deny the children of the father will be in worse favor that it better the offender tie a rock around self's neck and jump in a deep lake. Everyone is a child of God and there are no *dult(s) to stand before God.
200 AD; children are again the manure between your toes and they make comforting noises when scalded with a hot poker stick in the anus.
600 AD; what about the children?
1200 AD; children are putty from God, placed in our hands to raise for his glory.
1700 AD; those American children are getting roudy.
1770 AD; the Americans are children, all right. And look, they believe in the persuit of happiness and liberty from one another! A new idea?
1871 AD; the Americans are now subjects unto the United States corporation
2004 AD; the United States, morally bankrupt as well as financialy bankrup through Federal Reserve System corporation ussurpation since 1933; continue plundering the world for competing with the United States in unethical behavior.
2005 AD; United States corporation installs the first RFID tracking instruments upon small animals such as entire hives of honeybees and rats; pleased with collection of accurate information and marvels at the wonders of increasing technology for data-storage efficiency.
2012 AD; United States corporation completes RFID installation of all its citizen subjects/ securities and begins scything through the remaining state Citzens of the old republic, compelling non-participants of United States corporation to either take the RFID or be extradited to Liberia.
2017 AD; World War 3 and biological warfare. I for one welcome our flesh-eating bacterial overlords!
That's not a drug problem, that's an intelligence problem - if he does something like that he's a fuckup, high or not.
Do they even realise it can be easily hacked? What are they planning in the case of inevitable disaster? Sadly, these questions remain unanswered.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
ROFL
Periodic mandatory testing. 18 year olds are not rational. Most 30 year olds aren't rational. Most politicians aren't rational. I'd say test away, we'd be better off for it.
Except that everybody knows that the penal system doesn't work. Unfortunately we still have it because even though science can show it doesn't work, science can't come up with a solution.
Watch your 16 year old daughter take a shower and you will be in jail faster than you can say "pervert". You can only invade children's privacy to the extent that they can not take care of themselves according to their age and individual ability.
-
Children. They aren't considered to be full humans, until on their 18th birthday they make an overnight magical transformation into a full adult. Prisoners have more rights than them.
You have a good point but it's more muddled than that for the poor kids:- They gain the right to consensually have sex between 14 and 18 (in the US at least, it varies more in the world at large).
- To add to the confusion while they can have sex consensually they probably can't marry without their parent's permission until 18.
- They can start driving at 16 (in most US states), but can't vote till 18.
- Also they can legally smoke at 18 but they can't drink until 21!
So exactly when do they really become an official adult?Seems if I trust the police and prision system to look after criminals when they lock them up, I'd trust them with this (Group 4 private security are another matter). So far, no sign of tagging everyone else
The point is that convicted criminals are tagged ding their sentence to enforce a curfew, for example. Once someone has served his sentence and been released, he's not tagged any more.
The proposal made here was to indefinitely tag criminals, so when a crime was committed, you could just check whether anyone that had done anything like that before was nearby. That's quite different from the tagging that we have in the UK.
Oh, and someone who is out on parole is still serving his sentence. If he violates the terms of his parole, he'll go back inside.
Children shouldn't be given the *rights* of adults, but they *do* deserve the same respect and consideration of their sense of dignity and self-worth. Any parent who uses the phrase "because *I* say so, *that's* why", has failed their duty and their child.
Eh, I understand where you're coming from, that if that's always their explanation, that's a problem, but honestly, there are times when a parent can't get the reasoning through to a child, or does not have the opportunity to do so. I would say that if the child never does what they're told without demanding to have explanations every time, the parent has failed. Yes, parents should respect their children, but children should also respect their parents. The children should understand that talking back and sass are not a good thing. If they have objections, they can bring them up in a rational manner so that the parent can correspondingly discuss it in a rational manner. And the child should know that some situations require following orders and bringing up and arguing later. To bring up an admittedly extreme example, when a parent yells at you to get off the road, they may be seeing an oncoming car.
In short, I think the whole thing comes down to that "If all your friends were jumping off a bridge, would you?" line. Blind obedience is bad, but sometimes there's a good reason to jump (oncoming runaway truck anyone?). *shrug* I grew up that way. I respected my parents, but they let us know that we were allowed to disagree with them. ^_^ Sometimes it was a democratic process where the parents held 51% of the vote, but we knew that they were always willing to listen to our arguments and sometimes they'd be swayed by them.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Right... And drugs (alcohol included) don't effect ones ability to think correctly.
I sure hope you're 16 and stupid, and not 30 and stupid. At least ignorance could be an excuse for you...
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
And don't forget: if you can use this to track them, anyone else (who wants to badly enough) can too.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
What kind of rationale is that? The US is both older and more powerful than the UN. The UN exists due to the benevolence of the US.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I'm 26 and I'm half a fucking idiot, but I never thought it was a good idea to drive while under the influence of any drug - hell, I won't even cycle a bike after a cigarette.
Yes, drugs can affect your judgment but if your judgment is poor to begin with then it doesn't matter if you're stoned, drunk, high, whatever. You're destined to do stupid shit through your lack of ability to think.
Unicef, UN, and Amnisty International can all bite me with their anti-American spew.
That's funny, because there was nothing anti-american in my post. I simply named the 2 countries on earth who refused to ratify the declaration on the rights of children.
so, you're saying that kids of Iran, Iraq (two years ago), Afghanistan (3 years ago) Syria, and the like all have a right to privacy?
Yes, they had a right to it.
Maybe their rights were being violated...but they had rights.
Where's the UN on the Sudan? Rwanda?
When the genocides started in Rwanda in 1994, the U.N. tried to move in with a peacekeeping force, but the move was blocked by the U.S. because they didn't think the deathtoll of hundreds of thousands of africans was high enough to risk U.S. soldier casualties that might result from their participation.
Where's Unicef on female genital mutilation?
Here.
You can't take the sky from me...
I dunno - but it sounds like it has application to mine-triggering devices.
Imagine a mine that blows up only when in the vicinity of a colonel or higher...
Getting children to behave properly when you are with them is trivial.
In case you haven't met any of the incredibly spoiled brats who definately can't, let me tell you this: Not all parents manage even this "trivial" task. As with everything in life, too much or too little is not good. And it changes depending on the childs age, maturity and behavior. Saying "Go out and do what you want, I trust you" is not necessarily good parenting either, at least not always.
I think I'll just sum it up with a quote from H.L. Mencken: "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
"having a 'bug' up y'ur ass", that might be the only way to keep the buggers'/buggerers' tools from "swapping hands" or bodies...
Yech!!! Not exactly Mr. Spock's 'subcuteanous transponder' to keep tabs on Krik, ummm, Kirk...
Now, this reminds me of racing home from Sunday mass to catch our fav shows (back round 1977 or so) by 10 AM...
Gamara, Guldar, and Ultra Man. God, I MISS Hayata/UltraMan!!!
(Between Ultraman and Guldar shows, we (my brother, sister and I) managed to get our rosary prayers down to about 4.5 minutes... in retrospect, we might as well have said the Rosary at 500 baud to God...Afterall, if God knows our thoughts, we could just emit GodBaud, as in blee-blee-bilee-baleee....(warming up the vocal box), then... bidd, bidd, and...."bahhhhhddddd". GodBaud..)
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
and how old are the countries that belong to the UN? And yes, i do agree with you that the US uses it's strength to bully the UN and it's member nations. Drug war anyone?
that wasn't "informative", that was ignorant, AND offtopic!
In case you haven't met any of the incredibly spoiled brats who definately can't, let me tell you this: Not all parents manage even this "trivial" task.
That speaks more of their parenting than it does of the task, but I was speaking comparatively. Of the two, getting them to behave in your presence is the easier.
Saying "Go out and do what you want, I trust you" is not necessarily good parenting either, at least not always.
I never said it was. That I disapprove of one extreme does not mean I approve of the other. That I am against total mistrust of a child does not mean I endorse total and unconditional trust.
I think I'll just sum it up with a quote from H.L. Mencken: "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
I also never said parenting was simple. If anything it's the technology to track your child's every move that is the simple, neat and wrong solution.
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
Nah, it's better to throw away such utopian ideas and accept that the age limit is good enough. It's the most effective and most democratic scheme we're likely to find.
18 is the age where you can vote and you can be put in jail, surely the most important things as far as your fundamental rights go. Ability to vote implies that you're responsible enough to affect the workings of the state (which is able to modify all of the other age limits). The drinking at 21 business is only a minor kludge to please prohibition symphatizers, and it's fairly meaningless in practice anyway.
For those who don't know what bukkake in parent post means: Bukkake is a group sex practice where a series of men takes turns ejaculating on a kneeling woman or man. At the end of the process, the recipient usually drinks the semen. There are strong overtones of erotic humiliation in this practice. When the term bukkake is used in Japan, it usually refers to a method of preparing noodles and its sexual use does not generally include a group of men ejaculating on another man. The practice supposedly originated in the feudal age in Japan to punish unfaithful women. A woman who had disgraced her husband was first tied to a post in a kneeling position and then forced to endure being ejaculated on by every man in the community. Today in Japan bukkake still retains this theme of degradation. American bukkake, however, is intended to be mutually enjoyable, men who enjoy ejaculating on men and/or women who enjoy being ejaculated on. This is best displayed in the American Bukkake film series. A "lite" version of bukkake also exists, and is known as "gokkun". Gokkun is an onomatopoeia, which translates into English as "gulp", i.e., the sound one makes swallowing. People outside of Japan often mistake gokkun for bukkake. Many women have gone public regarding their sexual enjoyment of bukkake. Prominent examples include Dr. Susan Block and Catherine Millet. A number of sources have stated that bukkake may have a non-obvious risk of infection by HIV and other blood-borne infections such as hepatitis through semen contacting the surface of the eye. Read more on Wikipedia. You can find more on Google but before following any links please keep in mind that some people might find it offensive. As a bukkake practitioner, I'm posting it as AC for rather obvious reasons.
Since when does anyone take orders from Unicef, or the UN for that matter? This is like saying that because the Communist Party dictates that all property is theft, we're suddenly all criminals. When a legislative & judicial body, to whom I've given sanction, pronounces something, then its "law", anything else is lies and balderdash, and I'm happy to have no part of it.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
"parents theoretically have the choice to take their children to another school"
not in the places i've lived, unless you go to private schools. Your address determines your school.
Oh, I understand that some people may have a different opinion and believe in laissez-fair parenting. I also understand that those people are wrong. That is not being narrow-minded, that is being correct-minded.
I also understand that, lacking any solid argument of my own, you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. This makes you a liar, in addition to someone who is clueless about parenting.
Correction, "Any solid argument of your own." Haven't had a day off in three weeks.
That someone can become a soldier at 16. So, you are old enough to kill and/or die for your country but not old enough to vote?
The rest of your life and/or - more importantly - someone else's. I can think of a half dozen examples right off the top of my head. If you can't, you're very young and/or have led a very sheltered life.
I can't do drugs any more - At my age I have shit to do. I can't go on a 2 day acid binge cos I have to move my car on street sweeping day. Drugs are for kids.
The single biggest problem with illicit drugs is that they are created without any sort of quality control. Remember, kids, the people making those drugs have absolutely no interest in even *trying* not to kill you. Drug users are like porn stars - there's always plenty more where the last one came from.
Maybe it's just me, but it took a while from me to realize that they are talking also about boys as well. All I could visualize was to japanese schoolgirls in their uniforms and miniskirts...
A truly safe society is one where everyone agrees on the rules, and eveyone follows the rules.
When one group (i.e. the police or in Iraq, the US Military) are in charge of making sure everyone is following the rules, no one is safe.
Great read, I didn't know that. Thanks.
Moderators:
Mod parent up: +5, Informative!
and consequently:
Mod granparent down: -1, Troll
or up: +5, Funny
(depanding on your sense of humor - IMO: +6, FUNNY!)
Drug users are like porn stars - there's always plenty more where the last one came from.
I miss Savannah...
Culturally the major nations of the UN, such as those in Western Europe, predate the US by thousands of years. But if you count their current forms of government, they're actually younger than the US. Especially Germany and France.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Oh, I understand that some people may have a different opinion and believe in laissez-fair parenting.
Show me where I said I believed in laissez-fair parenting before you go accusing me of putting words in your mouth.
I also understand that those people are wrong. That is not being narrow-minded, that is being correct-minded.
narrow-minded:
"Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty. Of narrow mental scope; illiberal; mean"
That anyone disagrees with you means they can't possibly be a parent is narrow-minded. You aren't even willing to discuss it. That makes you narrow-minded. You are intolerant of any view which differs from your own. That makes you narrow-minded.
lacking any solid argument of [your] own,
You might try reading my comment before responding.
you are putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Exactly what did I claim you said that you didn't?
This makes you a liar,
If you can't attack the argument, attack the man.
in addition to someone who is clueless about parenting.
Care to make an argument or are you just going to call me names?
Why don't you answer some of the questions I asked you? Or would you rather resort to name calling and baseless accusations?
Correction, "Any solid argument of your own." Haven't had a day off in three weeks.
Maybe if you spent more time with your kids you might be able to trust them more and wouldn't have to resort to invading their privacy.
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
-
18 is the age where you can vote and you can be put in jail, surely the most important things as far as your fundamental rights go.
Except exceptions are often made for heinous crimes and someone under 18's tried as an adult. That just confuses it more, did committing the crime make them an adult magically, or did they commit it because they're still not an adult and didn't understand the full extent of their actions?Frankly I'm not sure anyone can really determine when a child's a child and when they're an adult except on a case-by-case basis.
And sometimes where you live determines where you work too. If you want to change jobs you may have to move. If you want to change schools you may have to move. I don't see the big difference that some of the other /.'ers see here. If you feel really strongly that you don't want to wear a tag on your job you can move and get another job (you will be uprooting your career and family but if you feel that stongly...). If you really feel that strongly that you don't want your children wearing tags on campus you can move and send your children to another school (you will be uprooting your career and family but if you feel that stongly...).
Honestly if my children came home with a note saying that the school is going to a school uniform dress code and all uniforms will have RFID tags in them to track the kids if they try and escape my first reaction would be to ask the school why are they so bad that children are running away. If they can answer that question to my satisfaction then I would buy them uniforms. To me, at work, there is nothing so bad about wearing a badge that I would quit and find another job. Using the same logic there is nothing so bad about a badge that I would pull my kids out of school and send them somewhere else.
I don't see the differentiation that you are using that would say its okay to wear a tag at work but not at school. Its either all okay or its not.
King James Bible at umich.edu