Good points, but they are deeper than you make them sound like they are.
any company infringing on my government-issued rights isn't getting any sympathy from me.
They are not. They are saying, "If you want to use it through us, through our bandwidth, you have to use it this way." Much like a toll road, no?
Am I not supposed to use my PSP for homebrew just because Sony doesn't like it? Or not install my extra legal OSX license on non-Apple hardware just because Apple says I shouldn't?
No, you shouldn't and no you shouldn't. Why? It may be Uncle-Sam-Legal to do those things, but if it violates a terms of service, don't look to the company for any such support any longer? Kind of like voiding a warranty, etc. That said, I'd use my DS for homebrew stuff any chance I could get... but I understand that that violates a warranty and effectively makes that physical piece of hardware no longer a nintendo DS.
As generous as your offer is (It is Natural Light, not Guinness, sorry.:P ), Netflix is not so giving. They are not giving these things away - they are renting them to me. (Emphasis mine)
What would you do if Blockbuster told you that the DVD you rented from the store could only be played between 1am and 6am on Thursday, and you could only play it on the DVD player in your basement next to the furnace?
I would do exactly what everyone who disagrees with a terms of service should do: Take my business elsewhere.
Squeezing blood from a turnip may be possible, but it may also be against the Netflix TOS to do so, which in that specific case you are violating not the legal side of the media, but the Terms of Service side...
Just because a company claims something in their "terms of agreement" doesn't make it law
This is very true. However, if a company says in order to be "on par" with the TOS you have to break the law they do not have a legal terms of service. If a company says you have to watch a DRM'd video while watching it through their subscription service - then you have to. It is not illegal to DRM stuff, and it is not illegal to say "If you do this in my space on my time, you have to do it my way." (See my analogy re: beer.)
Ok so the time shifting may be legal, but still, doing it in a way that Netflix does not want you to do it in - break the +Netflix+ terms of service, no? Which would, in effect, be "illegal" according to Netflix.
That's where my beef is. Fair use or not, getting the data through Netflix means you have to deal with it in the way Netflix wants you to deal with it.
Just like, if I allowed you to walk through my house (free coffee and beer) while on your way to work and I said that you had to finish your beer before leaving my house... would it not be against my "policy" if you hid your beer under your coat and took it with you for use later?
So you are telling me that say... Will Smith will be ok if I purchase one of his CDs and play it, in my business while I use it to help me make money? Or that he'd be ok if I played it to a "concert" of 200 people, that I charged for? Come on... why do you think businesses have to pay royalties to record labels? There is a fair use line, and Netflix has said that "fair use" does *not* include copying the streaming video so you can play it later...iF they are smart they will work something out so you *can* download and play later, however. (I'd love that. I use netflix a lot.)
Have you actually read the terms of service? Remember the "please be kind, rewind" stickers? Blockbuster *owns* the dvd you rented from them, that's why they call it rental service... not "buy and return kindly within two days" service...
The concept of the internet does not imply one must watch it at the time it is downloading (and be subject to network burps and such),
No, this is where you are wrong. The netflix TOS says that you must watch it at the time it is downloading... if you want to download and watch something else later, do it somewhere else. If you do not do it the way Netflix says you must do it, you are doing it wrong (according to netflix). That is to say, also, that while you and I may understand that bandwidth is bandwidth and cpu cycles are cpu cycles so what does it really (financially) matter if you download now and watch later... Netflix may not, and then again they may... but they had their reasons for writing the TOS like that... and if you violate it, you violate it. And that's not to say that DRM is just about forcing people to watch it while streaming DRM is about forcing people to follow a TERMS OF SERVICE. Since it is clearly obvious that while people accept them, they may not always agree, and find ways around that disagreement...
Who knows, (you and I certainly do not) maybe Netflix will make packaged exes that expire after x days that you can download and watch whenever you want, etc...
If you want to watch it offline, have it mailed to you via Netflix - that is what that portion of the service they offer is for. If you want to stream a video and save it, and that is ok with them, then go ahead. Except for the part where saving streams is not ok with them. Which is why it is DRM'd... why is this so confusing? Am I missing something with what you are upset about?
I don't accuse you of actually saving streams or breaking DRM, but I do accuse you of not seeing the bigger picture. No not the picture that says DRM makes the planet warmer... but the picture that says the use of the streams was designed to be single use; the use of dvds in the mail was designed to be offline use... using one for the other breaks that intention and breaks that terms of service.
Which is why I say to the people who say "NO DRM ON NETFLIX STREAMS,"... Why? What is the point? The streams are there for a reason. Are you so lazy that you can't wait for the dvd to arrive in the mail that you have to hack the drm?
I think it's great that it's hackable... or at least that someone found out how, in terms of the old-fashioned "white hat just because I can" aspect of hacking...
However if I wanted to watch something offline, I'd buy it or wait until Netflix mailed it.
How slow are you? When you *stream* something, you are paying for the ability to stream it - a single use license. Did you actually read the terms of service? When you record a stream, you are now "upgrading" that single use into a multi-use license. Oh and playing a stream twice does not make it a multi-use stream... it is simply two copies of the same stream, in terms of licenses.
What's the difference between this and breaking DRM on a music CD so that you can rip it to MP3 to play on your iPod? Or do you enjoy being ass-raped by the media companies?
Easy: With the music CD you pay for the physical media - and even though you are "renting" the ability to play the music, the media is yours. With Netflix, you are only paying for the ability to rent, at their terms, the movie you are streaming.
I would argue, however, that once the data hits my machine, stored in my cache, or travels through my inter-tube into my house, that it is mine to do with what I please. Much like the telephone company demarc being at the telephone network interface... and the lines on the inside of the house being mine to do with what I please (so long as it doesn't break the telephone system).
Here here! My wife has breast cancer - does that mean, not only do we have to pay more because one of us is "unhealthy" but when we find out about the cancer, we get raped for more money too? We already have lots of "C" related costs as it is! That's the entire reasons she put money into the system.
As I look out here, at the Hartford skyline, I realize that more and more insurance companies are moving away from what used to be the insurance capital of the world. Why? We know they are making money hand over fist... or are they? Is this a last ditch effort to "repair" a non-broken insurance industry? No. It is simply a way to "tax" people who are not the statistical norm. I may be considered thin, with a very very low BMI! Will I get five extra bucks??:P
Does it? Is myspace / facebook the new "geocities"? Think about it. They were designed, from the beginning, to represent "circles" of friends - either with the open myspace or the closed "forced network" of facebook.
But people keep crying that they aren't exactly what they could have if they just looked elsewhere - that is to say, a webpage. A personal webpage, with a network people use. (Which is where geocities failed back in the 90s. (among other reasons...))
I have only ever used myspace or facebook to reconnect with people once or twice and have always brought the conversation with them into a better medium - chat, email, "lj" (Blog websites are not more like "real" webpages, however LJ actually has a community that works.), or even *gasp* the telephone and face-to-face visits.
To the people that use myspace or facebook and expect to be able to link to individual images so they can show grandma... I say, "you are using it wrong."
My wife is a breast cancer survivor (people are survivors from day one) and we are in the process of finding out that, hopefully, it has not spread to her bones. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that cancer patients and caregivers do not care what the insurance companies say. The doctor can bill me personally and take the money right out of my paycheck if you need to. I will also say that, in my own experience, the oncology centers we have used have cared less about insurance than my PCP! One of the first things they ask is, "Do you need money to help pay bills during all of this?"
I would hope that this is used in conjunction with other treatment options - not as a "failsafe to lower level insurances"...
I actually got it all to play nice last night... here's to trying to finally get away from Windows; as I actually like the desktop effects and it runs better on my hardware, too!
Find me a version of Linux, FreeBSD, etc that will run on my hardware and play the only game I really play on a regular (that is twice a week) basis; World of Warcraft... and I'll try to switch to it.
Did you read the article and realize that the person got the laptop _after_ they had the music player already? And rather than install windows on it, they are trying to keep using a Linux variant....has nothing to do with a "new" music player...
#2 The batteries are more toxic than those in a normal car- and with each hybrid carrying between 5 and 7 of those batteries, they are not better for the environment.
But, the batteries do not leak like lead-acid (current car) batteries do or will.
I am a volunteer one - and if I didn't need the money that being in IT brings me at this time, I would take the pay cut to a paid FF any day. (Having a wedding, a bride to be going through cancer, and three children in the house makes money an important fact of life. So, I usually just put a nice FD background image on my computer and stare out the window.:P)
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Good points, but they are deeper than you make them sound like they are.
:P ), Netflix is not so giving. They are not giving these things away - they are renting them to me. (Emphasis mine)
any company infringing on my government-issued rights isn't getting any sympathy from me.
They are not. They are saying, "If you want to use it through us, through our bandwidth, you have to use it this way." Much like a toll road, no?
Am I not supposed to use my PSP for homebrew just because Sony doesn't like it? Or not install my extra legal OSX license on non-Apple hardware just because Apple says I shouldn't?
No, you shouldn't and no you shouldn't. Why? It may be Uncle-Sam-Legal to do those things, but if it violates a terms of service, don't look to the company for any such support any longer? Kind of like voiding a warranty, etc. That said, I'd use my DS for homebrew stuff any chance I could get... but I understand that that violates a warranty and effectively makes that physical piece of hardware no longer a nintendo DS.
As generous as your offer is (It is Natural Light, not Guinness, sorry.
What would you do if Blockbuster told you that the DVD you rented from the store could only be played between 1am and 6am on Thursday, and you could only play it on the DVD player in your basement next to the furnace?
I would do exactly what everyone who disagrees with a terms of service should do: Take my business elsewhere.
Squeezing blood from a turnip may be possible, but it may also be against the Netflix TOS to do so, which in that specific case you are violating not the legal side of the media, but the Terms of Service side...
Just because a company claims something in their "terms of agreement" doesn't make it law
This is very true. However, if a company says in order to be "on par" with the TOS you have to break the law they do not have a legal terms of service. If a company says you have to watch a DRM'd video while watching it through their subscription service - then you have to. It is not illegal to DRM stuff, and it is not illegal to say "If you do this in my space on my time, you have to do it my way." (See my analogy re: beer.)
Ok so the time shifting may be legal, but still, doing it in a way that Netflix does not want you to do it in - break the +Netflix+ terms of service, no? Which would, in effect, be "illegal" according to Netflix.
That's where my beef is. Fair use or not, getting the data through Netflix means you have to deal with it in the way Netflix wants you to deal with it.
Just like, if I allowed you to walk through my house (free coffee and beer) while on your way to work and I said that you had to finish your beer before leaving my house... would it not be against my "policy" if you hid your beer under your coat and took it with you for use later?
That's not a bad idea - especially when solid-state drives are becoming more and more common and cheap...
So you are telling me that say... Will Smith will be ok if I purchase one of his CDs and play it, in my business while I use it to help me make money? Or that he'd be ok if I played it to a "concert" of 200 people, that I charged for? Come on... why do you think businesses have to pay royalties to record labels? There is a fair use line, and Netflix has said that "fair use" does *not* include copying the streaming video so you can play it later. ..iF they are smart they will work something out so you *can* download and play later, however. (I'd love that. I use netflix a lot.)
Have you actually read the terms of service? Remember the "please be kind, rewind" stickers? Blockbuster *owns* the dvd you rented from them, that's why they call it rental service... not "buy and return kindly within two days" service...
The concept of the internet does not imply one must watch it at the time it is downloading (and be subject to network burps and such),
No, this is where you are wrong. The netflix TOS says that you must watch it at the time it is downloading... if you want to download and watch something else later, do it somewhere else. If you do not do it the way Netflix says you must do it, you are doing it wrong (according to netflix). That is to say, also, that while you and I may understand that bandwidth is bandwidth and cpu cycles are cpu cycles so what does it really (financially) matter if you download now and watch later... Netflix may not, and then again they may... but they had their reasons for writing the TOS like that... and if you violate it, you violate it. And that's not to say that DRM is just about forcing people to watch it while streaming DRM is about forcing people to follow a TERMS OF SERVICE. Since it is clearly obvious that while people accept them, they may not always agree, and find ways around that disagreement...
Who knows, (you and I certainly do not) maybe Netflix will make packaged exes that expire after x days that you can download and watch whenever you want, etc...
If you want to watch it offline, have it mailed to you via Netflix - that is what that portion of the service they offer is for. If you want to stream a video and save it, and that is ok with them, then go ahead. Except for the part where saving streams is not ok with them. Which is why it is DRM'd... why is this so confusing? Am I missing something with what you are upset about?
... Why? What is the point? The streams are there for a reason. Are you so lazy that you can't wait for the dvd to arrive in the mail that you have to hack the drm?
I don't accuse you of actually saving streams or breaking DRM, but I do accuse you of not seeing the bigger picture. No not the picture that says DRM makes the planet warmer... but the picture that says the use of the streams was designed to be single use; the use of dvds in the mail was designed to be offline use... using one for the other breaks that intention and breaks that terms of service.
Which is why I say to the people who say "NO DRM ON NETFLIX STREAMS,"
I think it's great that it's hackable... or at least that someone found out how, in terms of the old-fashioned "white hat just because I can" aspect of hacking...
However if I wanted to watch something offline, I'd buy it or wait until Netflix mailed it.
How slow are you? When you *stream* something, you are paying for the ability to stream it - a single use license. Did you actually read the terms of service? When you record a stream, you are now "upgrading" that single use into a multi-use license. Oh and playing a stream twice does not make it a multi-use stream... it is simply two copies of the same stream, in terms of licenses.
What's the difference between this and breaking DRM on a music CD so that you can rip it to MP3 to play on your iPod? Or do you enjoy being ass-raped by the media companies?
Easy: With the music CD you pay for the physical media - and even though you are "renting" the ability to play the music, the media is yours. With Netflix, you are only paying for the ability to rent, at their terms, the movie you are streaming.
I would argue, however, that once the data hits my machine, stored in my cache, or travels through my inter-tube into my house, that it is mine to do with what I please. Much like the telephone company demarc being at the telephone network interface... and the lines on the inside of the house being mine to do with what I please (so long as it doesn't break the telephone system).
Here here! My wife has breast cancer - does that mean, not only do we have to pay more because one of us is "unhealthy" but when we find out about the cancer, we get raped for more money too? We already have lots of "C" related costs as it is! That's the entire reasons she put money into the system.
:P
As I look out here, at the Hartford skyline, I realize that more and more insurance companies are moving away from what used to be the insurance capital of the world. Why? We know they are making money hand over fist... or are they? Is this a last ditch effort to "repair" a non-broken insurance industry? No. It is simply a way to "tax" people who are not the statistical norm. I may be considered thin, with a very very low BMI! Will I get five extra bucks??
Does it? Is myspace / facebook the new "geocities"? Think about it. They were designed, from the beginning, to represent "circles" of friends - either with the open myspace or the closed "forced network" of facebook.
But people keep crying that they aren't exactly what they could have if they just looked elsewhere - that is to say, a webpage. A personal webpage, with a network people use. (Which is where geocities failed back in the 90s. (among other reasons...))
I have only ever used myspace or facebook to reconnect with people once or twice and have always brought the conversation with them into a better medium - chat, email, "lj" (Blog websites are not more like "real" webpages, however LJ actually has a community that works.), or even *gasp* the telephone and face-to-face visits.
To the people that use myspace or facebook and expect to be able to link to individual images so they can show grandma... I say, "you are using it wrong."
My wife is a breast cancer survivor (people are survivors from day one) and we are in the process of finding out that, hopefully, it has not spread to her bones. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that cancer patients and caregivers do not care what the insurance companies say. The doctor can bill me personally and take the money right out of my paycheck if you need to. I will also say that, in my own experience, the oncology centers we have used have cared less about insurance than my PCP! One of the first things they ask is, "Do you need money to help pay bills during all of this?"
I would hope that this is used in conjunction with other treatment options - not as a "failsafe to lower level insurances"...
I actually got it all to play nice last night... here's to trying to finally get away from Windows; as I actually like the desktop effects and it runs better on my hardware, too!
I'll be checking that out too... thanks for that thought! :) Glad I have a big 2nd hd for backup.
Find me a version of Linux, FreeBSD, etc that will run on my hardware and play the only game I really play on a regular (that is twice a week) basis; World of Warcraft... and I'll try to switch to it.
Welcome to the fact that people sell what people will buy... proven by the point that it has not been sold to you, since you would not buy it.
Did you read the article and realize that the person got the laptop _after_ they had the music player already? And rather than install windows on it, they are trying to keep using a Linux variant. ...has nothing to do with a "new" music player...
Exactly! Mod that one up!
...yes! But *ONLY* if the parking spot contains a sign that says "Parking for patrons of XYZ Store only. All others will be towed....yada yada"
Does this include bulk sales to companies like Dell and Gateway that may or may not sell all of them right away?
#2 The batteries are more toxic than those in a normal car- and with each hybrid carrying between 5 and 7 of those batteries, they are not better for the environment.
But, the batteries do not leak like lead-acid (current car) batteries do or will.
I am a volunteer one - and if I didn't need the money that being in IT brings me at this time, I would take the pay cut to a paid FF any day. (Having a wedding, a bride to be going through cancer, and three children in the house makes money an important fact of life. So, I usually just put a nice FD background image on my computer and stare out the window. :P)
Every male already plays as a Human female, anyway...
...there is a difference between trend and fad??
We all know it had to do with the fact that the scientists neglected to update their routers...