I got sickened reading this article. It is plain biased. Period.You see, most Linux Sites root for some Distro or Desktop environment. And what is worst, they flame the rest of the Desktops/Distros. This is plain childish and unprofessional. The reviewer is attacking Mandrake constantly through her "review". Look at her conclusion for one example:
Mandrake 9 seems to be a bit out of focus. The OS itself has no clear focus of what it wants to operate as. A Server? Desktop? Workstation? All? No one really knows what the actual market of Mandrake is.
And she goes on but I already feel like vomiting.
You know where I go to read reviews ?. Slashdot, users comments. You get real smart people telling you their real stories. People who really know what they are talking about and have no reason to bias one way or the other. And the good reviews get modded up. Peer review. I just don't understand however why this "review" in OS news was posted in slashdot, especially since the submitter of the story is clearly trolling .
On the Issue of Mandrake 9.0 . I installed it in three machines: home desktop, laptop, office workstation. It all went fantastic, and I have never ever been happier with a distro. It is saving me lots of time in administration, it is pleasant to use, I just love it. Almost everything works out of the box. It autodetected local and network harware, I crossed mounted disks through NFS, etc, all without effort from the Control Center. Software Installs and upgrades are a pleasure with the RPM front end. Simply outstanding. But you see, I don't need to flame or trash or bitch other distros to simply state that I became a happy Mandrake user.
It would have been much more productive for slashdot to post a pointer to the several "first impression" reviews of Mandrake 9.0 on the net, which are much more balanced than the one in OS news (see distrowatch.com section Mandrake), and encourage people to write their own reviews. I have lots of cool stuff to say about Mandrake 9.0, but I ended up biting for the troll. Oh well:-(
If this really helps reduce IDE prices even further, the difference to SCSI will be so significant that SCSI drives will become a niche product for high end servers and that will be it.
Memory prices are dropping, there is a tendence to store more information in RAM only (for obvious bandwidth reasons), hard drive manufacturers need to drop IDE prices one way or the other. The arguments they gave are b***t. They are just cutting costs in commodity hardware. But hey, this is PR:-)
I am one of the many people sickened by the "optimized for 'whatever x watever' resolution" web pages. A good web page should scale gracefully at different resolutions, and for different displays including text browsers. And this is doable. Just avoid this moronic 800 pixels wide table framing your pages, and use a good desing, and
follow the standards.
If enough people start surfing the net from small devices, web logs will show that and the web designers will have to listen.
Other than that, this is the way to go. We don't need yet one more document format for small devices. Better use HTML/XHTML and adapt the rendering to the device you are using...
Well, CVS is fine for small projects. Linux is anything BUT a small project;
KDE, GNOME and XFree86 are not precisely
small projects. They all use CVS.
there's a lot of things that cvs either doesn't support, or supports poorly. Binary files and renaming files, for example
Well, subversion
will support those two, and also be almost compatible with CVS (except when there is a strong reason not to). A compromise solution would be: use CVS and then switch to Subversion. They are going golden early next year it seems.
Even though I contribute code every once in a while, my background is not in CS and I am not an expert in Security by any means. What matters to me is not whether open source solutions are inherently a little more or less secure than open source solutions. What really matters to me is what can I do to secure my machine .
Security holes happen for any development model, shit happens. With open source, GNU/Linux in particular, I keep an eye on security updates to my distro and that's it. Almost no effort if you use a friendly distro. Well, that and I check not to run services I do not need, use a firewall, etc. I know that as fast as a hole is found a fix will appear and I'll download new packages in a couple days. If I am really concerned I can compile and install in the meantime. Here is where the freedom meaning of
free software shines.
Oh, and the title should better be "Open source vs propietary security". Old same old...
Thank you donators
on
Blender Is GPL
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I know it is always easier to just sit back and wait for others to do things. In this case make donations. I do not use Blender, I probably will not use it in the foreseeable future, but I might end up using free software that uses Blender. Anyways, thank you folks for the donations. Every one and all of them counted:-)
How about mentioning something useful ?.
is KDE 3.04 is out, with several bugfixes (including two security advisories and several memory leaks in the libs).
And according to rpmfind.net, RedHat 8.0 too, and I can tell Mandrake 9.0 does (and 8.2 did), and the list goes on... but yes, I never understood why RH 7.3 would ship Python1.52. They actually use python a lot for their config tools (which I consider a smart decision). Anyways...
Such a phenomenal genious was A. Einstein that he even influenced the social perception of what physics is. Being himself a theoretician, the prototype of a physicist is some sort of a lunatic doing fancy calcuations on a blackboard. However, voila, most Nobel prizes go to experimentalists. And that is the way it should be. Physics is an experimental science. If you cannot measure it, it ain't. Einstein himself understood this better than anyone, and he based his theories in solid experimental evidence.
Now let me disgress: how does it feel winning a part of a Nobel prize ? I see it coming: "Our next speaker, Prof. Inodoro Pereyra, 1/8th of the Nobel Prize 2004"
There were a couple similar requests in Slashdot recently, please do a search for more. The simplest idea I read at the time was the following. Do a basic install, configure a simple desktop for a typical user, save the corresponding "/home/user" somewhere as root so nobody can mess it up. Set the PC up only for one user.
Then let people login, but make sure that when they log out the only home directory in the machine gets wiped out and the original setup is copied back from the place where it is backed up.
You will need to probably run a very lightweight desktop such as Xfce, if your hardware is very old. If you use Mandrake, you can play around choosing a minimal set of packages in the install, and then save the packages list on a floppy so that you only need to do the selection once. Installing in the rest of the machines will be much faster.
Probably half an hour or so per machine if you do a light install.
Good luck, and thank you for choosing GNU/Linux:-)
While I agree with a previous poster in that the "light browser" is really a myth and Phoenix will eventually get bloated and there is nothing wrong with that, I also think that the real advantage of Phoenix is that they can improve the old and not so intuitive User Interface that Mozilla inherited from Netscape.
Mozilla, and for that matter Netscape >= 6, was designed as we know from the ground up with a greatly improved, new codebase. But they kept the same UI to make sure the old users wouldn't freak out. I won't argue whether that was a good decision. But I think that Phoenix has nothing to inherit and should go ahead and put all the effort on an improved UI. That by itself will make the effort worthwhile.
This is something we need... yesterday. An XML (or whatever SGML they choose) office format standard. I know there is
work in progress from the Open Office Project, but I would rather have this work merged in a standard dictated by the Free Standards group. That alone would represent a HUGE step forward. Let's hope.
Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of open-source stuff, I admire RMS and the GNU project for everything they've contributed to the computing world, and I enjoy having the freedom to tinker with stuff. In the end, though, I'll use whatever is going to work best for ME in whatever situation.
Fine, but you don't seem to understand that if everybody did what you do, you wouldn't have free software to enjoy. So, in short, you adopt a comfortable "I use the right tool for the job" attitude, you "get sick" of people who really stand for free software and finally use their software when it is done. Brilliant.
Re:Desktop integration was a *Debian* first...
on
Red Hat 8.0 Released
·
· Score: 2
I wanted to confirm your statement, but I can't find the other two Debian users to ask them.:(
You mean 2 million. According to the 130k registerd users at the Linux Counter,
Debian users are 13% of the estimated (by the Linux Counter) 18 million users. That places them in 3rd place, after RedHat (30%) and Mandrake (19%)
In the right direction, but don't forget Mandrake
on
Red Hat 8.0 Released
·
· Score: 3, Offtopic
I would like to say something that I hope is understood correctly. I love to see RH moving to usability (in addition to stability). I love RH as I consider them very useful members of the free software community. And I think there is little doubt that they are the most popular commercial distro.
Now, that doesn't mean that redhat == linux. I am a bit disappointed to see that now that RH takes the step to the desktop (which IMHO they should have taken long ago, when they are actually preaching against Linux adoption in the desktop marker) everybody seem to be discovering that Linux can run on desktops. Hello, have you tried mandrake ?. Mandrake also has dektop integration, my menues look the same in GNOME and KDE. The task oriented menues pick the best apps wherever they come from. It really feels integrated. But it looks like RH invented the concept. And this is simply not true.
I tried myself Mandrake a week ago with 9.0. It blew mi mind. Really really much more useable than anything else I tried. I switched my Laptop from RH 7.3 to ML 9.0. Then my home desktop. Now I'll switch my office workstation. I am configuring in 15 seconds with "point'n click" things that took me several minutes (if not hours) of HOWTOs and RTFM's and what not. Almost everything gets autodetected. SMB mounts, NFS mounts, hardware, it is really amazing.
In general, the improvement in usability I feel in the transition RH 7.3 -> ML 9.0 is similar to the one I experienced back in the day when I switched Slackware -> RH 6.0
I am not flaming RH, they do a damn fine distro. I am just saying, if you are looking for usability, may be you'll find rewarding to give Mandrake 9.0 a shot. The install will take no effort and little time. If you are looking for mission-critical stability, I cannot tell because I haven't used ML long enough to compare.
I agree in general terms. But first, it is not an Anti-Mandrake thing. People who disregard Mandrake as a "newbie distro" are actually anti-massive adoption of Linux. Also:
Sure, its not for the more Advanced so much as the Newbies, but
atleast the Newbies have something that can get them started.
The idea that if it is good for Newbies it isn't for advanced users is just elite thinking. Maybe the experts don't what to use what newbies use to differenciate themselves ?. I would actually agree in what you say if you mean that Mandrake spends part of the effort on (very useful) GUI tools, and advanced users who don't need these tools would be better off using a distro which spends its efforts in stability and robustness. However, note that the growing popularity of Mandrake means it is being more tested, and hopefully they'll be able to alocate more resources in quality assurance.
And BTW. I see no freaking reason why editing/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcg* by hand is faster, safer or even more instructive than doing it with a GUI. I can do both, I prefer the GUI. It saves me time. The computer does not see the difference, and the text files are always there in case something goes wrong.
For what it's worth, here go my fist impressions after more than a day running it (I dowloaded the newsest rc3 ISOs yesterday, I believe they were renamed as "final" later). Here is what I liked the most:
Supermount. This is so cool. Get floppys and CDs in and out without need for mounting/umounting. I hope the patch makes it to 2.4.* and 2.6.* . Applying the patch is NOT trivial at this point.
RPM manager. I forgot the name, but the graphical interface to urpmi is very sweet. This is a killer (yeah, kind of apt/get I know). For instance, I forgot to install LaTeX. So I go afterwards:
Control-Center -> Software Management ->Install Software
Then I search for "tex", I get a list of packages, I can see descriptions of each, I select some, it tells me that I will need some more to satisfy dependeces, I say OK, it tells me what CD to put in, THATS freaking it !. Sweet.
Control Center. Very useful, most configuration can be done consistently from there.
Menus . Very friendly way of organizing the menus, and consistency across different desktop environments.
Installation Easy, simple, good looking, intuitive, very, very nice. Had some problems with the ATI 128 mobility card though, luckily I had an old config file around !
In short, it is a great distro. It gives you the feeling of a consistent operating system, not just a collection of free software. But nothing is perfect. Mandrake's configuration utilities are very nice for basic, typical stuff, but they'll need some work in future releases to cover more complex situations. That's the main drawback I found. I cannot really use ONLY their tools for everything. But they are getting there.
Overall, I have the feeling that they are not as mature as RedHat, but they have many other advantages as I said before. I hope they build on 9.0 . It is already a great release, and so far my best Linux experience. If they just keep improving what they have right now (as opposed to adding new tools/functionality), the next release will be far ahead of the rest of the distros, at least to my taste and needs.
I hope I am wrong. But should we expect something different for Mono ? Is microsoft not going to screw them when and if.Net and Mono get bigger ? I respect Miguel so much for what he did and does for Gnome. But from the announcement of Mono I always had a bad feeling. I DO NOT trust microsoft, and I think I have reasons why.
There is a quiet and steady trend for GNU/Linux to go mainstream. It is not happening at the exponentical rate some of us thought it would. But every little step helps. This is an egg and chicken problem and we all know it. If more people used Linux there would be more apps available, and the other way around. Whenever we achieve "critical mass" we are in:-)
Things are happening.
Governments considering/adopting open source solutions here and there. Mass media covering Linux/Open Source every now and then. The world's biggest computer chain selling computers with Linux preinstalled online for now. Not to mention the impressive inroads in the server market.
Now imagine all these win* gamers opening their UT boxes to find a "linux version" in there. They won't give a damn, but deep in their minds they will start to get to the idea that Linux is there, that it exists, that it is as "normal" as "win*".
One more step.
Many Thanks to the UT team !
Do not lock yourself with .doc
on
Accurate OCR?
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
A bit off your question, but I think you may want to consider this. If you have the choice:
... reading packets, etc. into electronic text(RTF or Word)...
you will do yourself and your lab a big favor if you choose RTF. RTF is
documented, so you do not lock yourself with a single vendor (microsoft) for further processing of the electronic data. It may not matter now, but it could be very important for you guys at some point in future...
Texstar was nice to put some
screenshots of the upcoming Mandrake Linux 9.0. Now take a look at the menus in GNOME and KDE. For instance, see the "mandrake10.jpg" and "mandrake02.jpg"
Mandrake is also providing a similar menu structure for both desktops.
And this is good . This is actually what a distribution is supposed to do . Put software together, configure, etc., save the user the hundreds of hours it would take her or him get the damn thing working and looking good. Make it easy to the user to get work done with the damn thing.
Linux is getting better and better. Thank you KDE, thank you GNOME, thank you GNU, kernel folks, RedHat, Mandrake, Debian and so on...
Yes, definitely. With the three most popular e-mail clients in the world (Mozilla Mail, KMail and Evolution) all supporting encryption, I'm sure e-mail encryption will finally be the rule.
Please, AxelTorvalds was obviously talking about the Linux world. You could also object that he said "the first major distributor" instead of "the first major GNU/Linux distributor". What's the need for a cheap shot ?. How about being a bit nicer to other posters ?.
However, note that it isn't a volunteer project; Germany contracted a company to deliver the product by the end of the year
I bet they will, the tools are there as you said. Can you imagine 1993 for GNU/Linux ?
OpenOffice 1.* / StarOffice 6.*
Mozilla 1.* / Netscape 7.*
Stable GCC/C++ ABI for a long time (we hope:-)
Stable KDE API for a long time (3.*)
Stable GNOME API for a long time (2.*)
Groupware solution (kroupware)
Apache and the usual server stuff
Lots of commercial software already ported (Kylix, Oracle, Games, etc)
I think the time for maturity of GNU/Linux as a whole (embedded, desktop, workstation, low-end server, high-end server) has come. There is only one main thing remaining: an office (XML) file-format standard for all free software office suites, please !. This is the next big step IMHO. Filters are holding Office suite projects behind. A common standard would make infinetly easier to everybody. There is
a
kickstart here but there is no much activity yet it seems. Please go and help if you can !
Slashdot Mirror
And she goes on but I already feel like vomiting.
You know where I go to read reviews ?. Slashdot, users comments. You get real smart people telling you their real stories. People who really know what they are talking about and have no reason to bias one way or the other. And the good reviews get modded up. Peer review. I just don't understand however why this "review" in OS news was posted in slashdot, especially since the submitter of the story is clearly trolling .
On the Issue of Mandrake 9.0 . I installed it in three machines: home desktop, laptop, office workstation. It all went fantastic, and I have never ever been happier with a distro. It is saving me lots of time in administration, it is pleasant to use, I just love it. Almost everything works out of the box. It autodetected local and network harware, I crossed mounted disks through NFS, etc, all without effort from the Control Center. Software Installs and upgrades are a pleasure with the RPM front end. Simply outstanding. But you see, I don't need to flame or trash or bitch other distros to simply state that I became a happy Mandrake user.
It would have been much more productive for slashdot to post a pointer to the several "first impression" reviews of Mandrake 9.0 on the net, which are much more balanced than the one in OS news (see distrowatch.com section Mandrake), and encourage people to write their own reviews. I have lots of cool stuff to say about Mandrake 9.0, but I ended up biting for the troll. Oh well :-(
If this really helps reduce IDE prices even further, the difference to SCSI will be so significant that SCSI drives will become a niche product for high end servers and that will be it.
Memory prices are dropping, there is a tendence to store more information in RAM only (for obvious bandwidth reasons), hard drive manufacturers need to drop IDE prices one way or the other. The arguments they gave are b***t. They are just cutting costs in commodity hardware. But hey, this is PR :-)
If enough people start surfing the net from small devices, web logs will show that and the web designers will have to listen.
Other than that, this is the way to go. We don't need yet one more document format for small devices. Better use HTML/XHTML and adapt the rendering to the device you are using ...
KDE, GNOME and XFree86 are not precisely small projects. They all use CVS.
Well, subversion will support those two, and also be almost compatible with CVS (except when there is a strong reason not to). A compromise solution would be: use CVS and then switch to Subversion. They are going golden early next year it seems.
Security holes happen for any development model, shit happens. With open source, GNU/Linux in particular, I keep an eye on security updates to my distro and that's it. Almost no effort if you use a friendly distro. Well, that and I check not to run services I do not need, use a firewall, etc. I know that as fast as a hole is found a fix will appear and I'll download new packages in a couple days. If I am really concerned I can compile and install in the meantime. Here is where the freedom meaning of free software shines.
Oh, and the title should better be "Open source vs propietary security". Old same old ...
I know it is always easier to just sit back and wait for others to do things. In this case make donations. I do not use Blender, I probably will not use it in the foreseeable future, but I might end up using free software that uses Blender. Anyways, thank you folks for the donations. Every one and all of them counted :-)
How about mentioning something useful ?. is KDE 3.04 is out, with several bugfixes (including two security advisories and several memory leaks in the libs).
And according to rpmfind.net, RedHat 8.0 too, and I can tell Mandrake 9.0 does (and 8.2 did), and the list goes on ... but yes, I never understood why RH 7.3 would ship Python1.52. They actually use python a lot for their config tools (which I consider a smart decision). Anyways ...
Now let me disgress: how does it feel winning a part of a Nobel prize ? I see it coming: "Our next speaker, Prof. Inodoro Pereyra, 1/8th of the Nobel Prize 2004"
You will need to probably run a very lightweight desktop such as Xfce, if your hardware is very old. If you use Mandrake, you can play around choosing a minimal set of packages in the install, and then save the packages list on a floppy so that you only need to do the selection once. Installing in the rest of the machines will be much faster. Probably half an hour or so per machine if you do a light install.
Good luck, and thank you for choosing GNU/Linux :-)
While I agree with a previous poster in that the "light browser" is really a myth and Phoenix will eventually get bloated and there is nothing wrong with that, I also think that the real advantage of Phoenix is that they can improve the old and not so intuitive User Interface that Mozilla inherited from Netscape.
Mozilla, and for that matter Netscape >= 6, was designed as we know from the ground up with a greatly improved, new codebase. But they kept the same UI to make sure the old users wouldn't freak out. I won't argue whether that was a good decision. But I think that Phoenix has nothing to inherit and should go ahead and put all the effort on an improved UI. That by itself will make the effort worthwhile.
My 1.99 cts
This is something we need ... yesterday. An XML (or whatever SGML they choose) office format standard. I know there is
work in progress from the Open Office Project, but I would rather have this work merged in a standard dictated by the Free Standards group. That alone would represent a HUGE step forward. Let's hope.
Fine, but you don't seem to understand that if everybody did what you do, you wouldn't have free software to enjoy. So, in short, you adopt a comfortable "I use the right tool for the job" attitude, you "get sick" of people who really stand for free software and finally use their software when it is done. Brilliant.
You mean 2 million. According to the 130k registerd users at the Linux Counter, Debian users are 13% of the estimated (by the Linux Counter) 18 million users. That places them in 3rd place, after RedHat (30%) and Mandrake (19%)
Now, that doesn't mean that redhat == linux. I am a bit disappointed to see that now that RH takes the step to the desktop (which IMHO they should have taken long ago, when they are actually preaching against Linux adoption in the desktop marker) everybody seem to be discovering that Linux can run on desktops. Hello, have you tried mandrake ?. Mandrake also has dektop integration, my menues look the same in GNOME and KDE. The task oriented menues pick the best apps wherever they come from. It really feels integrated. But it looks like RH invented the concept. And this is simply not true.
I tried myself Mandrake a week ago with 9.0. It blew mi mind. Really really much more useable than anything else I tried. I switched my Laptop from RH 7.3 to ML 9.0. Then my home desktop. Now I'll switch my office workstation. I am configuring in 15 seconds with "point'n click" things that took me several minutes (if not hours) of HOWTOs and RTFM's and what not. Almost everything gets autodetected. SMB mounts, NFS mounts, hardware, it is really amazing.
In general, the improvement in usability I feel in the transition RH 7.3 -> ML 9.0 is similar to the one I experienced back in the day when I switched Slackware -> RH 6.0
I am not flaming RH, they do a damn fine distro. I am just saying, if you are looking for usability, may be you'll find rewarding to give Mandrake 9.0 a shot. The install will take no effort and little time. If you are looking for mission-critical stability, I cannot tell because I haven't used ML long enough to compare.
The idea that if it is good for Newbies it isn't for advanced users is just elite thinking. Maybe the experts don't what to use what newbies use to differenciate themselves ?. I would actually agree in what you say if you mean that Mandrake spends part of the effort on (very useful) GUI tools, and advanced users who don't need these tools would be better off using a distro which spends its efforts in stability and robustness. However, note that the growing popularity of Mandrake means it is being more tested, and hopefully they'll be able to alocate more resources in quality assurance.
And BTW. I see no freaking reason why editing /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcg* by hand is faster, safer or even more instructive than doing it with a GUI. I can do both, I prefer the GUI. It saves me time. The computer does not see the difference, and the text files are always there in case something goes wrong.
Control-Center -> Software Management ->Install Software
Then I search for "tex", I get a list of packages, I can see descriptions of each, I select some, it tells me that I will need some more to satisfy dependeces, I say OK, it tells me what CD to put in, THATS freaking it !. Sweet.
In short, it is a great distro. It gives you the feeling of a consistent operating system, not just a collection of free software. But nothing is perfect. Mandrake's configuration utilities are very nice for basic, typical stuff, but they'll need some work in future releases to cover more complex situations. That's the main drawback I found. I cannot really use ONLY their tools for everything. But they are getting there.
Overall, I have the feeling that they are not as mature as RedHat, but they have many other advantages as I said before. I hope they build on 9.0 . It is already a great release, and so far my best Linux experience. If they just keep improving what they have right now (as opposed to adding new tools/functionality), the next release will be far ahead of the rest of the distros, at least to my taste and needs.
Thank you Mandrake, I am having so much fun :-)
I hope I am wrong. But should we expect something different for Mono ? Is microsoft not going to screw them when and if .Net and Mono get bigger ? I respect Miguel so much for what he did and does for Gnome. But from the announcement of Mono I always had a bad feeling. I DO NOT trust microsoft, and I think I have reasons why.
Things are happening. Governments considering/adopting open source solutions here and there. Mass media covering Linux/Open Source every now and then. The world's biggest computer chain selling computers with Linux preinstalled online for now. Not to mention the impressive inroads in the server market.
Now imagine all these win* gamers opening their UT boxes to find a "linux version" in there. They won't give a damn, but deep in their minds they will start to get to the idea that Linux is there, that it exists, that it is as "normal" as "win*".
One more step. Many Thanks to the UT team !
you will do yourself and your lab a big favor if you choose RTF. RTF is documented, so you do not lock yourself with a single vendor (microsoft) for further processing of the electronic data. It may not matter now, but it could be very important for you guys at some point in future ...
And this is good . This is actually what a distribution is supposed to do . Put software together, configure, etc., save the user the hundreds of hours it would take her or him get the damn thing working and looking good. Make it easy to the user to get work done with the damn thing.
Linux is getting better and better. Thank you KDE, thank you GNOME, thank you GNU, kernel folks, RedHat, Mandrake, Debian and so on ...
Please, AxelTorvalds was obviously talking about the Linux world. You could also object that he said "the first major distributor" instead of "the first major GNU/Linux distributor". What's the need for a cheap shot ?. How about being a bit nicer to other posters ?.
I bet they will, the tools are there as you said. Can you imagine 1993 for GNU/Linux ?
- OpenOffice 1.* / StarOffice 6.*
- Mozilla 1.* / Netscape 7.*
- Stable GCC/C++ ABI for a long time (we hope
:-)
- Stable KDE API for a long time (3.*)
- Stable GNOME API for a long time (2.*)
- Groupware solution (kroupware)
- Apache and the usual server stuff
- Lots of commercial software already ported (Kylix, Oracle, Games, etc)
I think the time for maturity of GNU/Linux as a whole (embedded, desktop, workstation, low-end server, high-end server) has come. There is only one main thing remaining: an office (XML) file-format standard for all free software office suites, please !. This is the next big step IMHO. Filters are holding Office suite projects behind. A common standard would make infinetly easier to everybody. There is a kickstart here but there is no much activity yet it seems. Please go and help if you can !Actually it is the same host:
grisell: myname> host www.kroupware.org
www.kroupware.org has address 131.173.30.110
grisell: myname> host kroupware.kde.org
kroupware.kde.org is an alias for kolab.kde.org.
kolab.kde.org has address 131.173.30.110
You mean you are ignoring this ?. I just read David Faure's comment. Is it me or this article is a troll ???