Don't diss rhubarb! Strawberry rhubarb pie is awesome. Especially when it's warm, with some vanilla ice cream on top. Mmm.
A mini-rhubarb pie that I could take with me would be great. I'm wondering how I would carry around a mini-scoop of ice cream without it melting, though. That could be tricky.
5. Quotes around multiple words are more important that the operators. It means that the words have to appear together and in that order.
A small addition for anyone who, like me until recently, doesn't know: you can put an asterisk in quotes to wildcard words. For example: "red * car" will search for 'red', zero or more words, then 'car'. It comes in handy quite often in searching for technical things.
I got you beat. I got in line at Target at 7:40am for the 8am opening (I knew they'd have around 24 and only 20 people were in line). At 8:05, I found out they'd given out tickets and wouldn't be getting one. I headed over to K-Mart, getting there 15 minutes after they opened. I walked in and bought the 2nd to last one. And I spent like 10-15 minutes talking to the sales clerk before someone showed up to buy the last one.
I actually debated buying it because they forced the purchase of two games, and I wasn't planning on buying any right away (waiting for reviews). I figured I'd better get one now or I wouldn't get one, and I could sell the games or something.
Then I drove to Sam's Club. I got there just before 9am, and they opened at 10am. I was fifth in line out of six (the next person showed up a few minutes later), and they had six. No one else showed up. So I could have gotten there when they opened and gotten one. This starkly contrasts with the "big" stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, etc) which had people camping overnight, and had pretty long lines before opening. However, I do live in Greenville, NC; not exactly a hotbed of activity here.
And yes, I did return the other unit to K-Mart that day. The lady that helped me (a manager) did not even know what the Wii was. I could probably have returned the games separately and saved myself waiting in line at Sam's. Oh well.
You're keeping your argument centred on macro programs in general terms, rather than talking about WoWGlider specifically, because I think you know that that is the only area where you've got a solid argument. It probably couldn't *quite* be classified as a straw man...but it's close.;-)
No, I'm trying to point out how this case, if successful, could be used to target any general piece of software that a corporation doesn't like. "Your honor, in Blizzard v. WoWGlider, it was found that examining the contents of RAM on one's own computer is a delinquent act. The defendent in this case has done so in a way that hurts our bottom line/image and/or reveals sneaky things we are doing to exploit the public. We hereby move that the defendent be jailed, along with any other developers suspicious of our actions."
b) Use of *any* programs which run outside WoW and interact with it are specifically prohibited in the Terms of Service. What that means is that it doesn't in fact matter what WoWGlider does; as a third party program it is in violation of the ToS.
Look, I agreed with you on this point. Blizzard has the right to ban anyone they want for breaking the TOS. I don't care about those people. They knew they were breaking the rules, and they should be banned.
What I'm arguing against is suing the developer. The most Blizzard should be able to do in this case is ban people that use his software, including him. They shouldn't be able to sue him just for developing it.
My understanding is that WoWGlider works by reading the memory WoW writes to, using that to determine what's going on, and sending keypresses and mouse movements to control the character. Please explain how this is a copyright violation or circumventing an authentication measure.
Would you like all macro programs, even ones that aren't used for cheating in games, to be illegal? Because this is how they all work. In fact, this is how almost every piece of software works. Programs need to read from and write to memory, and to be useful, they need to produce output. This program's output is keystrokes and mouse movements. I realize you don't like cheaters, but how about focus on them instead? They are the ones violating the terms of service.
It would be pretty disappointing if developing software became illegal because corporations don't like some of the things that are produced. This guy has done nothing illegal. It seems rather dangerous to set a precedent for punishing people that haven't broken the law. Please stop being so short-sighted.
I'm not sure how your argument speaks against his. Although he does specifically mention charging for time spent, that wouldn't be the only way to charge, just like it's not the only way to charge now. Obviously a photographer that produces higher quality photos could charge more, and people would pay more for the quality. What does that have to do with having control over the reproduction?
I'd be surprised if this ever happens without some kind of mass psychological change in humanity. People are selfish; they like owning things. While I agree that if people could get over that, things would be more peaceful, I doubt it will happen. What makes you think it will happen in the next 80-120 years when it hasn't happen in the last few millenia?
I had forgotten the DC, thanks for the link. That article makes it clear, however, that the Dreamcast was mostly irrelevant. Japan ignored it, waiting for the Playstation 2, and even though it did well in the beginning in the US, it couldn't keep enough attention there either. Sega announced it was discontuing the DC just 3 months after the PS2 was released in the US. I don't think the DC was enough of a competitor that it actually made a difference.
* Was it last to release in Europe/Australia by 3+ months? Not quite, it trailed by about a month, but what is the point of this question?
I'm not sure where your "about a month" figure comes from here. If you're still talking about the DC, Wikipedia gives more than a year after for the PS2 release. If not, the PS2 beat the other two to Europe by a year and a half. So it wasn't last to Europe either way. The point of the question was to note that, of this generation's three major consoles, the PS3 will be the last to launch in Europe by over three months. Reversing the situation of the PS2, where it beat the main competitors to all territories by over a year.
* Did the PS2 face a manufacturing shortage, while the others did not during the same period? Yes. But it was the only system ramping up at the time
Yeah, that's why I worded the question that way. By the time the Gamecube and XBox came out, the PS2's manufacturing problems were over. There wasn't a time when the PS2 was having a shortage and the GC and Xbox were not. That's the reverse of this launch, where the PS3 will be facing a pretty serious shortage while the other two won't be.
Any more questions?
Sure. Why not answer the real argument rather than throw shadows? The parent of my post was basically stating that although the PS3 launch has the same naysayers as the PS2 launch, that they will all be proven wrong for the same reasons. I was pointing out some of the differences. Like I said, I don't think the PS3 will be a miserable failure. If it is wildly successful, it will be for different reasons than the PS2 because almost none of the circumstances are the same. The only things that are really the same are: the words "Sony" and "Playstation", and probably the brand loyalty. I doubt those things are enough to disprove the naysayers, so if it happens, it will be due to other factors.
The only thing that is really different this time for Sony is the bitterness is ramped up a notch.
I didn't follow the action during the PS2 / Gamecube / Xbox launch period, so tell me if any of these things were different: * Was the PS2 released an entire year after one of the others? * Was it last to release in Europe/Australia by 3+ months? * Did the PS2 face a manufacturing shortage, while the others did not during the same period? * Was the PS2 priced over twice as much as one of the others?
I'm pretty sure all of those are different this time. I don't think the PS3 is going to be a miserable failure, but it clearly does not have many of the advantages the PS2 had when it launched. The PS2 had a long time to shake out its launch mistakes before the other two came along. The PS3 doesn't have that. In fact, if Sony follows history, the PS3 will have some pretty bad quality problems, in addition to the shortage that is already expected. Do you think that will help them? When the competition is out in full force without those problems or shortages?
You're just as bad as the FUD flingers if you can't see those disadvantages.
Shortage? Doesn't take away from the console, just my ability to buy one.
The shortage could have a bigger effect than you think. The PS3 isn't coming out a year ahead of its competitors, leaving no real alternative but waiting. I'm guessing there will be more than a few people who will pass on the PS3 because the Wii and XBox360 are sitting right there on the shelf ready to take home. To add to that fun, it won't even be released in Europe and Australia until March. Meanwhile, Wiis and 360s will be selling everywhere.
Okay, you got yours so big deal, right? Who cares if no one else has one. Well, the developers care. They want their games to sell to the most people. If the PS3 has a smaller install base because the machines aren't available, developers will be looking to the other consoles first. That means less exclusives for the PS3, and maybe more exclusives with the other two.
I think a shortage will hurt the PS3 more than any of the other "reasons for failure" that people keep bringing up. It simply won't be able to grow the install base fast enough to generate the massive snowball effect the PS2 had.
but the prices for SD cards are currently so high that you'll be spending more on storage than on the game.
A quick froogle/pricegrabber search finds 2Gb SD cards for $30. Doesn't seem to bad to me, although I don't know how big the average Saturn game was. Also, the Wii has two USB ports on the back, which may be able to connect to USB hard drives for another storage option.
By definition you cannot sell poorly if you are selling every unit you make.
Perhaps in the absolute sense, but how about relative to the other consoles? If the PS3 only sells a million by years end because that's all they can produce, but the Wii sells 4 million by years end, I think it would be accurate to say the PS3 sold poorly compared to the Wii. Certainly the game developers will think so, because there will be 4 times as many people wanting games for the Wii as for the PS3. That is the kind of thing that sets up a cycle of more games leading to more appeal leading to more games, etc. That cycle was a major advantage for the PS2, but because of potentially poor relative sales, it might work against the PS3.
Good point, except for the fact that each one of those expansion sets actually added entire consistent and novel things to the Sims and Sims 2 franchises.
Sure they added things, but they aren't new games. They're the same game in a different setting. Like decorating the same cookie differently.
Obviously this interpretation depends on your viewpoint. Someone who likes The Sims type games will probably see the expansions as novel and entertaining. I don't really like those games, so I see the expansions as cookie-cutter, because to me they all share the same kind of dullness.
who has repeatedly reached a large level of success not producing cookie-cutter games
Ahem:
* The Sims
* The Sims: Livin' Large
* The Sims: House Party
* The Sims: Hot Date
* The Sims: Vacation
* The Sims: Unleashed
* The Sims: Superstar
* The Sims: Makin' Magic
* The Sims Bustin' Out
* The Sims 2
* The Sims 2: University
* The Sims 2: Nightlife
* The Sims 2: Holiday Edition
* The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff
* The Sims 2: Glamour Life Stuff
* The Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff/Mini Pack
* The Sims 2: Open for Business
* The Sims 2: Pets
* The Sims 2: In Season
Slashdot Mirror
Christmas is on a Monday this year. New VC games are released on Mondays. Maybe N will give everyone a nice gift this year with a few of the classics.
The new language features? Taken from Haskell. The only functional implementation at the moment? Written in Haskell. OOPS.
What do you have against Haskell? Haskell kicks ass.
Yes, they did cover it.
You had it easy. In my day, we didn't have batteries, so I had to do all of that myself. And play Taps at the funeral.
Don't diss rhubarb! Strawberry rhubarb pie is awesome. Especially when it's warm, with some vanilla ice cream on top. Mmm.
A mini-rhubarb pie that I could take with me would be great. I'm wondering how I would carry around a mini-scoop of ice cream without it melting, though. That could be tricky.
5. Quotes around multiple words are more important that the operators. It means that the words have to appear together and in that order.
A small addition for anyone who, like me until recently, doesn't know: you can put an asterisk in quotes to wildcard words. For example: "red * car" will search for 'red', zero or more words, then 'car'. It comes in handy quite often in searching for technical things.
I got you beat. I got in line at Target at 7:40am for the 8am opening (I knew they'd have around 24 and only 20 people were in line). At 8:05, I found out they'd given out tickets and wouldn't be getting one. I headed over to K-Mart, getting there 15 minutes after they opened. I walked in and bought the 2nd to last one. And I spent like 10-15 minutes talking to the sales clerk before someone showed up to buy the last one.
I actually debated buying it because they forced the purchase of two games, and I wasn't planning on buying any right away (waiting for reviews). I figured I'd better get one now or I wouldn't get one, and I could sell the games or something.
Then I drove to Sam's Club. I got there just before 9am, and they opened at 10am. I was fifth in line out of six (the next person showed up a few minutes later), and they had six. No one else showed up. So I could have gotten there when they opened and gotten one. This starkly contrasts with the "big" stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, etc) which had people camping overnight, and had pretty long lines before opening. However, I do live in Greenville, NC; not exactly a hotbed of activity here.
And yes, I did return the other unit to K-Mart that day. The lady that helped me (a manager) did not even know what the Wii was. I could probably have returned the games separately and saved myself waiting in line at Sam's. Oh well.
You bought an extra nunchunk, but not an extra remote? What will you use it with?
And how is Rayman? I've been trying to decide between that and Super Monkeyball for fun gaming with my wife.
make sure you open your windows and get a fan, and be prepared for a smelly kitchen for a day or so.
Or just take your microwave outside.
You're keeping your argument centred on macro programs in general terms, rather than talking about WoWGlider specifically, because I think you know that that is the only area where you've got a solid argument. It probably couldn't *quite* be classified as a straw man...but it's close. ;-)
No, I'm trying to point out how this case, if successful, could be used to target any general piece of software that a corporation doesn't like. "Your honor, in Blizzard v. WoWGlider, it was found that examining the contents of RAM on one's own computer is a delinquent act. The defendent in this case has done so in a way that hurts our bottom line/image and/or reveals sneaky things we are doing to exploit the public. We hereby move that the defendent be jailed, along with any other developers suspicious of our actions."
b) Use of *any* programs which run outside WoW and interact with it are specifically prohibited in the Terms of Service. What that means is that it doesn't in fact matter what WoWGlider does; as a third party program it is in violation of the ToS.
Look, I agreed with you on this point. Blizzard has the right to ban anyone they want for breaking the TOS. I don't care about those people. They knew they were breaking the rules, and they should be banned.
What I'm arguing against is suing the developer. The most Blizzard should be able to do in this case is ban people that use his software, including him. They shouldn't be able to sue him just for developing it.
My understanding is that WoWGlider works by reading the memory WoW writes to, using that to determine what's going on, and sending keypresses and mouse movements to control the character. Please explain how this is a copyright violation or circumventing an authentication measure.
Would you like all macro programs, even ones that aren't used for cheating in games, to be illegal? Because this is how they all work. In fact, this is how almost every piece of software works. Programs need to read from and write to memory, and to be useful, they need to produce output. This program's output is keystrokes and mouse movements. I realize you don't like cheaters, but how about focus on them instead? They are the ones violating the terms of service.
It would be pretty disappointing if developing software became illegal because corporations don't like some of the things that are produced. This guy has done nothing illegal. It seems rather dangerous to set a precedent for punishing people that haven't broken the law. Please stop being so short-sighted.
I'm not sure how your argument speaks against his. Although he does specifically mention charging for time spent, that wouldn't be the only way to charge, just like it's not the only way to charge now. Obviously a photographer that produces higher quality photos could charge more, and people would pay more for the quality. What does that have to do with having control over the reproduction?
I'd be surprised if this ever happens without some kind of mass psychological change in humanity. People are selfish; they like owning things. While I agree that if people could get over that, things would be more peaceful, I doubt it will happen. What makes you think it will happen in the next 80-120 years when it hasn't happen in the last few millenia?
Nice response. I can see you have a firm grasp of debate.
Dude! A gaming journal having a slow news day posted a fluff piece listing a bunch of similarities to the current situation! I win!
I bow to your superior pwnage. By the way, did you see the second page?
I had forgotten the DC, thanks for the link. That article makes it clear, however, that the Dreamcast was mostly irrelevant. Japan ignored it, waiting for the Playstation 2, and even though it did well in the beginning in the US, it couldn't keep enough attention there either. Sega announced it was discontuing the DC just 3 months after the PS2 was released in the US. I don't think the DC was enough of a competitor that it actually made a difference.
* Was it last to release in Europe/Australia by 3+ months?
Not quite, it trailed by about a month, but what is the point of this question?
I'm not sure where your "about a month" figure comes from here. If you're still talking about the DC, Wikipedia gives more than a year after for the PS2 release. If not, the PS2 beat the other two to Europe by a year and a half. So it wasn't last to Europe either way. The point of the question was to note that, of this generation's three major consoles, the PS3 will be the last to launch in Europe by over three months. Reversing the situation of the PS2, where it beat the main competitors to all territories by over a year.
* Did the PS2 face a manufacturing shortage, while the others did not during the same period?
Yes. But it was the only system ramping up at the time
Yeah, that's why I worded the question that way. By the time the Gamecube and XBox came out, the PS2's manufacturing problems were over. There wasn't a time when the PS2 was having a shortage and the GC and Xbox were not. That's the reverse of this launch, where the PS3 will be facing a pretty serious shortage while the other two won't be.
Any more questions?
Sure. Why not answer the real argument rather than throw shadows? The parent of my post was basically stating that although the PS3 launch has the same naysayers as the PS2 launch, that they will all be proven wrong for the same reasons. I was pointing out some of the differences. Like I said, I don't think the PS3 will be a miserable failure. If it is wildly successful, it will be for different reasons than the PS2 because almost none of the circumstances are the same. The only things that are really the same are: the words "Sony" and "Playstation", and probably the brand loyalty. I doubt those things are enough to disprove the naysayers, so if it happens, it will be due to other factors.
Calm down. I hate them both.
The only thing that is really different this time for Sony is the bitterness is ramped up a notch.
I didn't follow the action during the PS2 / Gamecube / Xbox launch period, so tell me if any of these things were different:
* Was the PS2 released an entire year after one of the others?
* Was it last to release in Europe/Australia by 3+ months?
* Did the PS2 face a manufacturing shortage, while the others did not during the same period?
* Was the PS2 priced over twice as much as one of the others?
I'm pretty sure all of those are different this time. I don't think the PS3 is going to be a miserable failure, but it clearly does not have many of the advantages the PS2 had when it launched. The PS2 had a long time to shake out its launch mistakes before the other two came along. The PS3 doesn't have that. In fact, if Sony follows history, the PS3 will have some pretty bad quality problems, in addition to the shortage that is already expected. Do you think that will help them? When the competition is out in full force without those problems or shortages?
You're just as bad as the FUD flingers if you can't see those disadvantages.
Shortage? Doesn't take away from the console, just my ability to buy one.
The shortage could have a bigger effect than you think. The PS3 isn't coming out a year ahead of its competitors, leaving no real alternative but waiting. I'm guessing there will be more than a few people who will pass on the PS3 because the Wii and XBox360 are sitting right there on the shelf ready to take home. To add to that fun, it won't even be released in Europe and Australia until March. Meanwhile, Wiis and 360s will be selling everywhere.
Okay, you got yours so big deal, right? Who cares if no one else has one. Well, the developers care. They want their games to sell to the most people. If the PS3 has a smaller install base because the machines aren't available, developers will be looking to the other consoles first. That means less exclusives for the PS3, and maybe more exclusives with the other two.
I think a shortage will hurt the PS3 more than any of the other "reasons for failure" that people keep bringing up. It simply won't be able to grow the install base fast enough to generate the massive snowball effect the PS2 had.
Guess I should have read the rest of your post:P Bleh.
Sorry for the redundancy.
but the prices for SD cards are currently so high that you'll be spending more on storage than on the game.
A quick froogle/pricegrabber search finds 2Gb SD cards for $30. Doesn't seem to bad to me, although I don't know how big the average Saturn game was. Also, the Wii has two USB ports on the back, which may be able to connect to USB hard drives for another storage option.
By definition you cannot sell poorly if you are selling every unit you make.
Perhaps in the absolute sense, but how about relative to the other consoles? If the PS3 only sells a million by years end because that's all they can produce, but the Wii sells 4 million by years end, I think it would be accurate to say the PS3 sold poorly compared to the Wii. Certainly the game developers will think so, because there will be 4 times as many people wanting games for the Wii as for the PS3. That is the kind of thing that sets up a cycle of more games leading to more appeal leading to more games, etc. That cycle was a major advantage for the PS2, but because of potentially poor relative sales, it might work against the PS3.
but at this point why not just buy a GameCube?
Because it won't have all the fun new games that the Wii will have? Isn't the point of a console to play the fun games?
All the Wii is offering me is a nifty controller.
And fun new games.
If you don't care about the gameplay, stick to watching movies and sports. You'll get much more realistic and fantastic picture with those.
Good point, except for the fact that each one of those expansion sets actually added entire consistent and novel things to the Sims and Sims 2 franchises.
Sure they added things, but they aren't new games. They're the same game in a different setting. Like decorating the same cookie differently.
Obviously this interpretation depends on your viewpoint. Someone who likes The Sims type games will probably see the expansions as novel and entertaining. I don't really like those games, so I see the expansions as cookie-cutter, because to me they all share the same kind of dullness.
Besides, he's working on The Sims 3 right now.
Yeah, maybe they'll use green frosting this time.
who has repeatedly reached a large level of success not producing cookie-cutter games
Ahem:
* The Sims
* The Sims: Livin' Large
* The Sims: House Party
* The Sims: Hot Date
* The Sims: Vacation
* The Sims: Unleashed
* The Sims: Superstar
* The Sims: Makin' Magic
* The Sims Bustin' Out
* The Sims 2
* The Sims 2: University
* The Sims 2: Nightlife
* The Sims 2: Holiday Edition
* The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff
* The Sims 2: Glamour Life Stuff
* The Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff/Mini Pack
* The Sims 2: Open for Business
* The Sims 2: Pets
* The Sims 2: In Season
What if you replace the software?