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DVD Jon's DoubleTwist Unlocks the iPod
An anonymous reader writes, "On the 5-year anniversary of the iPod, Fortune Magazine has an article called Unlocking the iPod about Jon Lech Johansen's new venture. Slashdot briefly covered DoubleTwist earlier this month, and those of you who complained that he was not enabling iPod competitors to play FairPlay files will be happy to learn that according to the Fortune article he will also be going after the hardware market." From the article: "As [Johansen] and Farantzos explain DoubleTwist in a conference room they share with several other companies, he points to a sheet of printer paper tacked on the wall that has a typed quote Jobs gave the Wall Street Journal in 2002: 'If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own.' As Johansen sees it, Jobs didn't follow through on this promise, so it's up to him to fix the system... Johansen has written [two] programs...: one that would let other companies sell copy-protected songs that play on the iPod, and another that would let other devices play iTunes songs."
Great news, this will only makes the iPod stronger!
http://www.mil.gov.int.edu.org/
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this constitute a blatant violation via reverse-engineering of the Fairplay DRM? I'm not saying I disagree with his actions, I'm just asking the question...
I left my wallet in El Sigundo!
.. at least, it is for me. I bought some music from iTunes a while ago, when my iPod was still working, and - oh the irony - lost it when I switched over to a Mac Mini. So what did I do? I tried to download the music in question, since I'd paid for it, right? Apparently not - once you've downloaded music on iTunes, you don't get to download it again. What a waste of money.
What user actually wants/needs DRM anyway.
As you can see, Dvd Jon has done a lot of things. The biggest question I have is why are so many companies affraid of developing portable software? I mean this guy write 300 lines of code enabling Linux machines (via VLC) to what some types of media. Now why don't more companies want this freedom? My comment is to ask the EFF.
Basing your lifes work and new company on an obscure quote from 4 years ago seems a bit niave. If we held all companies responsible for promises from their CEOs no company would ever stand up to it.
If Apple wants to DRM their music that is their choice. If people want to buy DRM music that is their choice. No one is forcing you to buy iPods, iTunes, or CDs, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Just because it's socially acceptable to hack DRM doesn't mean its legal or right.
Good thing we don't base our lives around things said in the Constitution in the 1700s, eh?
You must not have that big of a music library if you don't realize something is very wrong with this. I should not have to pay for hundreds of blank CDs just to be able to transfer my music collection.
"It's a reverse vampire...they....they crave the sun!"
The problem isn't that he's writing software that allows people to copy music to other devices they own. As has been said, that's allowed.
The problem is that he's writing software that allows people to copy music to device they DON'T own. To send the files over the net. To burn copies and sell them on the street.
If DVD Jon was smart, he'd write software that would unlock FairPlay, allow the user to copy it to another device, and then lock it down again (through FairPlay or whatever else). If the user wanted to copy it to 5 devices that he/she owned, he would have to copy it manually to each one, and it would always lock afterwards. That way, he would get Apple/MPAA/etc. off his back. Heck, he could even make a worthwhile business out of it.
Instead, he's created software that unlocks and stays unlocked. It just looks like a thinly-veiled tool for piracy.
If you want to play the word game ("Steve Jobs said this") don't mince them, Jon. He didn't say we should create tools to totally strip DRM so we could then copy files across the net. Artists make enough money already, they won't miss it, blah blah blah -- fact of the matter is there are artists who *are* working to eat, and we have to respect copyrights at least a little for them. Otherwise may as well throw out capitalism in the digital distribution age.
{IANAL and other disclaimers here}
The best thing about DVD Jon's work is that it proves, disturbingly and resoundingly, that the current *AA business model based on DRM is at best faulty, and at worst an attack on fair use and civil liberties. While that sounds a bit over the top, imagine a world where there were no DVD Jon's to show that the big corporations locks can be picked. Imagine a world where the emporer's new clothes were never laughed at?
The point being that this only serves to help illuminate, in the minds of lawmakers, how feeble the current DRM schemes and laws really are, whether the work is ultimately found illegal or not.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
See lossy vs lossless.
You're wrong.
(If you'd asked about ethics or morals, you'd have a point.)
At 15 cents per blank CD I'm not going to worry about it. Besides, I can simply use a CR-RW disc and just keep re-using it if I'm too cheap.
It's fairly easy to play DRM'd iTunes Music Store music on any MP3 player. All you do is burn an audio CD from the DRM'd files and then rip that CD into MP3s.
It's fairly easy to further degrade shitty quality 128k AAC files from iTunes. All you do is burn an audio CD from shitty quality compressed DRM'd AAC files and then rip that CD into another shitty, lossy, and compressed audio codec of your choice (in this case MP3).
Great idea.
After all, "WE THE PEOPLE" grant "creators" the temporary right to restrict others from copying their work. We in no way, shape, or form grant a permanent right to restrict others from copying works. So, what happens at the end of "the temporary right"? I mean, will iPods suddenly allow us unrestricted use of legally purchased files?
We have always been at war with Eurasia!
``Apparently not - once you've downloaded music on iTunes, you don't get to download it again. What a waste of money.''
Yay, another one figured it out. Spread the word!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
If you rip the audio CD at 256K you'll have an almost sonically identical copy of the original AAC file. But yeah, the ITMS 128K originals are not nearly audiophile quality to begin with.
There are still some heroes still in the world of technology.
Unfortunately, "DVD Jon" has a big target painted on his back. As soon as the large international multimedia corporations use their political influence to normalize intellectual property laws on both sides of the pond, they'll come after him. This isn't about copy protection, per se. It's about creating and preserving monopolies. It's about making huge piles of money outside the constraints of competition.
DMCA type laws are a perversion of the rights balance between content producers and consumers. They should be abolished, not enhanced.
And a complete pain. Tell that to someone who has bought say 20-50 CDs worth of music off iTunes (not me, I just have the free album that came with my iPod).
"You can use whatever player you want. All you have to do is waste 50 blank CD-Rs (or a CD-RW)) by copying your music to CD then back. Best of all, after you've wasted all that time, you'll have to waste space by using lower compression just to get it to sound about the same."
The fact is, I'd have a hard time switching off the iPod if I wanted to unless the new player supported AACs. I've got about half my music collection ripped off of CDs into AAC and I would not want to do it again just to switch.
But then again, I'm quite happy with my iPod. I don't think too much of iTMS, but I like having physical property (the CD), not a licence to some bits.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
It's actually a lot easier than that. Use a faked-up sound driver that dumps the audio to a file. Works every time.
What would Lemmy do?
If DVD Jon was smart, he'd write software that would unlock FairPlay, allow the user to copy it to another device, and then lock it down again
And what of the copy to another device? How exactly do you dictate what happens to it?
Look. Jon is simply giving people The Tools to do whatever they would wish to do with their purchases. If you do something illegal with the tools, that's your problem. Same could be said of owning a car. Or a gun. Or a freaking two by four for that matter.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I thought "civil liberties" were things like "freedom of religion" and "right to assemble" and such, not the injustice of paying .99 for the latest Britney Spears hit and not be able to exercise the constitutionally-guarenteed right to copy it to another mp3 player.
There are actually quite a few non-Apple players that support unprotected AAC. AAC is not an Apple-proprietary format. It's owned by Dolby and Apple is merely a licensee.
Is it like the swirl?
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
``It's fairly easy to play DRM'd iTunes Music Store music on any MP3 player. All you do is burn an audio CD from the DRM'd files and then rip that CD into MP3s. That's it.''
Easy, perhaps, but time-consuming and labor intensive. Not exactly what you would be paying for when using iTunes, whose major selling point is convenience (at least, it's neither cheap, nor do you get great value).
``You might have to rip at higher bitrate to make sure you capture all the original audio information,''
It won't help. The AAC files iTunes sells already aren't great quality (according to independent listening tests; of course, Apple will tell you different). You can never get back the information that was lost in the conversion to AAC, and you will be losing more information in the conversion to MP3, no matter what bitrate you use.
``but it's perfectly doable--and legal.''
So are buying your music on CDs (which gives you higher quality and no DRM), buying it from AllofMP3 (AFAIK; IANAL; AllofMP3 lets you determine format and bitrate/quality, and does not impose DRM on you), and, in many places (but not the USA, AFAIK), copying music from a friend or downloading it off your favorite filesharing network.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
With quotes like this why does Apple have so much geek cred?
I'm sure this makes me unpopular, but I'm going to say it anyway. Anyone who buys DRM'd music is either an idiot or ignorant, and it's a shame so few of them have learned their lesson yet. In this case, you're paying for a vague not-a-promise that you can probably listen to the music now and if you're really lucky you'll be able to listen in the future.
If music really needed DRM to be a profitable business, I wouldn't still be able to buy CDs. So the only reason I can buy a CD and turn it into MP3s yet can't buy those MP3s to start with is because some jackass in a skyscraper either doesn't understand his own business or is trying really hard to pretend not to.
That should get some discussion going.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
That's a point a lot of people seem to be missing. Well said, BTW.
It takes a foreigner to show us the trees in the forest.
Too bad he isn't a US citizen- I would nominate him for the Prez!
Go DVD Jon!
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
I never said that ITMS files sounded great to begin with. They're pretty mediocre, in fact. My point was simply that it's relatively easy to make unprotected copies that sound very close to them.
And I agree that buying commercial CDs is a better way to go if you want better audio quality. Again, that's a separate issue.
All of these lamentations about Apple cheating and *AA "suing its customers" — what is your problem? It is Apple's own device, and it is *AA's customers. If you don't like these companies, then stop using the darn things.
The "Joe Sixpack" you pretend to be concerned about may be excused, but you — your real concern — may not. You — the /.-crowd — know full well, that the DVD you are buying can not be put online for everyone to donwload (whether it is, actually, stealing, or merely copyright violation is irrelevant). You knew, iTunes will limit your downloads and sharing abilities...
So, why do you buy these things from these corporations and other entities you so dislike? Was life really so miserable before DVDs and portable digital-audio players? It was not. And now, despite all of the above-listed limitations, it is only better...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I'm aware. I just mentnioned that because at this stage I can't go to any player on the market like I could a few years ago when I had everything in MP3s.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
``The best thing about DVD Jon's work is that it proves, disturbingly and resoundingly, that the current *AA business model based on DRM is at best faulty, and at worst an attack on fair use and civil liberties.''
Or, alternatively, it proves that DRM alone isn't going to stop people from doing illegal things with content, and we need to crack down on tools made to circumvent the DRM to protect the *AA's interests.
And since the government holds the interests of the corporations over civil rights, it's the latter interpretation that gets used, and we get the DMCA, which is then globally enforced, because the USA is currently King of the Hill.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
If it's so trivial, what's the problem with putting a "burn to MP3" button up there next to "burn to CD"? Somehow, I don't think it's Steve Jobs' holdings of Memorex stock.
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
OK.
I lost them when I loved,
Can you talk about it in public?
So what did I do?
Please tell us all about it!
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
And everyone else: please stop fucking with iTunes
There are alternatives. Use them if you don't like iTunes or iPods.
'but the other devices you own will all be iPods.'
Sort of the Henry Ford line of thinking: ... as long as you want black."
"You can have any color Model T you want
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
Sounds like something I'd wanna do to get MP3s on my player, especially considering if I want I can just bittorrent em and have a whole album free in 15 minutes... But thanks!
If they think that's a true alternative to piracy they are kidding themselves. Not everyone wants to use their player.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Ummm, is it possible to do this process on Linux, or other OS's where we can use virtual CD's? Then all you need is drive space, and not much of it, each CD isent even worth a gig, so you should have plenty of room.
Compared to other software and hardware vendors, I really don't think Apple are particularly different in their outlook on keeping users tied to their systems. Here's what Steve Jobs said in an interview with Walter Mossberg in the Wall Street Journal (June 2004)
Put another way, by controlling the software we can tie users to our products. It's an attitude shared by many other software companies and obviously Apple doesn't "Think Different(ly)" in this regard.
Just because it's socially acceptable to hack DRM doesn't mean its legal or right.
Also, just because something is illegal (though not yet challenged in court for validity), doesn't mean that it's wrong. See also: George W. Bush presidency, laws enacted therein.
yes, and anyone that care enough about that, won't be buying the iTunes files in the first place.
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
Sorry if this is offtopic.
If I buy a CD, I can stick it in my computer and rip it into iTunes. That's legal, right?
If I buy a DVD, why can't I do the same thing? Rip it into iTunes, put it on my iPod, import it into other programs and play with it, etc.
Is there a fundamental difference between video content and audio content?! Why? Is it just that CDs were invented before DRM? That when CDs were standardized, the technology didn't exist to import and "get at" that audio content - technology that for the media companies "necessitated" DRM?
So, back to the question: Is it legal to import CDs? (I hope so.) Is it legal to import DVD's a la DVD Jon's software? (I assume the media companies would say no.) Why?!
In this brave new world of DRM, the rules are made by what The Companies technologically let you do, rather than what the laws actually decree. I am sure that once CDs go by the wayside, all content (audio, video, commercial software) will be DRM'd and authenticated to "make sure" that you cannot distribute it in any way once it gets to you - no matter what media is used to get it to you. I'm not looking forward to it.
is mostly US, so they can mostly prosecute / sue him if deemed necessary.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
"*YOU* buy iTunes songs for *YOUR* iPod for only *YOU* to listen to..."
Maybe someday iTunes / iPod would let you share your music with others over a network... or burn CDs... or re-rip burned CDs... or...
Naaaaah, it'll never happen. Those lousy rats.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I didn't and it doesn't. Where do people get these ideas?
The transaction is nominally a sale and practically a lease. Continued use of a song requires an active account with the iTunes Store, which is subject to certain terms of service, which is not a license. Use on a desktop computer requires at least QuickTime and usually iTunes, which are subject to licensing agreements--the software, not the songs.
[Movie Announcer Guy]: In a world where nobody has the courage to stand up to the big corporations, a lone hero prowls the streets. When everyone lives in constant fear, he has the strength to fight for what's right. This summer, free your mind and your music with DVD Jon in "Unlocking DRM : Biting The Hand That Feeds"! This picture not yet rated.
Such a world is known as America.
I've bought 4 or 5 albums from the ITMS over the years and it's always been on an impulse. It's late at night or I'm at work and I have a sudden urge to listen to something. ITMS AAC files are like what pre-recorded cassettes used to be: Passable, but not great quality that you buy mostly for the convenience.
99% of the time, when I want music I buy it on CD and then rip it at a high bitrate to get near-lossless quality.
#1 Download Audacity or some other F/OSS audio program that allows you to capture and edit sounds from your sound card.
#2 Buy MP3 Freeplay Songs from Apple iTunes for your iPod or to play on iTunes.
#3 Open up Audacity, select your sound card output as the source, check the volume. Get the record button ready on a new audio file. Hit the record button in Audacity and hit the play button on iTunes, when the iTunes program is finished playing the song, stop the recording and cut out the silence between the song playing and "Export" to MP3 or OGG or whatever format you wish to export to. (Might need the LAME library to make a MP3)
#4 You now have a MP3 or OGG file without any DRM, quality may vary. Play it on your Non-Freeplay, Linux, OS/2, BeOS, whatever system or music player.
If the RIAA and Apple throws a hissy fit about this, reference the MPAA verses BetaMax case and the RIAA verses Casette recorders case, and see how TiVO brought about digital rights to make recordings of TV shows, movies, songs, etc as long as you paid for access to them first or got them off a free broadcast.
Remember as long as you own the rights to listen to a song, you have a right to a backup. This method does not remove DRM, nor does it crack it, in fact it does not even modify the original SafePlay file, all it does is make a standard audio file recording of the audio file you have the rights to listen to anyway. The downside is that it takes a long while to convert your collection over that way, but the upside is that it is not costly to do so.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
...Apple's entire business model is based on being closed. You pay through the nose for Apple hardware and Apple software (that can ONLY legally be run on Apple hardware), a large percentage of which is used by the big players in the content creation industry to produce closed content. Apple gets brownie points for Darwin (which IS a big deal, but not as big as the content creation industry) and making products that "just work" and "look cool". For a community that is (supposedly) about openness it seems both hypocritical and somewhat ironic that Apple is as beloved as it is.
I was about to explain the basics of data compression to you. But this is slashdot. You shouldn't be that stupid. Go do an internet search for "lossy compression." Find out what happens when you take the output of one lossy-compressed piece of data, then compress it again with a different lossy-compression algorithm.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
The earlier poster has a good point. iPods and iTunes are based on the concept that you get music by either buying it from the iTunes store, downloading a legal mp3, or Ripping a CD, which used to be a haxt00r thing, now it's commonplace. Even W does it, well, he has someone do it for him, I'm sure.
But the DVD content. I got the latest Weird Al album, iTunes lets me copy the music. It's a duodisk, so I can flip the cd, it's now a dvd. I don't have a DVD player on my computer, so I copied the relevant (videos) DVD file onto a CD at a friend's computer, took the copy home, then converted that to Quicktime on my computer for viewing..
None of these things are going anywhere outside of my house, let alone the internets. Did I break the law, which ones, and at what point?
I've gotten iTunes music before, too. Immediately converted them to non-DRM content. (using one of Jon's earlier programs.)
Didn't share them. Lawbreaker? I still have the original m4a's. Last played: over a year ago. I listen to my non-DRM'd copies.
Infinity is overrated, Infinity+1, now that's cool!
Other OSs like, say Windows? Anyway, this whole line of thinking doesn't take into account the fact that this is at best lossy trans-coding.
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
'If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own.'
Thing is, lost in the transcription is that Jobs was talking to two people. To clarify:
"If you [the consumer] legally acquire music, you [the copyright holder] need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you [the consumer] own."
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I was going to be equally condescending to you. But this is slashdot. Oh, wait.... Re-read the thread. I was responding to a suggestion that the best way of getting the raw data out of iTunes was burning to a CD. Uncompressing then putting the bits out to a WAV file introduces no more losses than uncompressing and burning the bits to a CD. If you compress a second time, the results are the same whether the data comes from a CD or a WAV.
What would Lemmy do?
Do you know any off the top of your head? I'm in the market for one after Itunes 7 killed my ipod shuffle with a botched firmware upgrade.
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
Of course it is. What's happening here, I'm not used to 2 karma, is that all the idiots that bought into i-tunes and apple computers for that matter are way too dumb to hack the tunes free by themselves. Not surprising really. After all they were smart enough to buy a MAC, but of course MACs are for the "it just works crowd" .... it's gonna be blindingly stupid in there.
... Standards and Practices !
That should get my karma back whrer it belongs.
PenGun
Do What Now ???
I would agree.
And, as i recall, Windows dosent have support for loopback, or anything like that natively (as in, no third party apps absolutely nessesary). But, the last time i used Windows was years ago, but knowing MS, i dont think they would have added that feature, maybe in Vista tho.
Sony and Archos both have models that play unprotected AAC files, as does Microsoft's Zune. There are others too. A good place to find more info on this is here:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/
Whether you ripped your CD collection or got them from p2p Apple don't interfere with that.
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
AllOfMP3 is not legal in the U.S., and in most European countries.
In order to sell music "by the pound", as it were, AllOfMP3 are exploiting a loophole in Russian copyright law that allows them to "broadcast" digital copies over the internet, as if they were a radio station. Since such an activity would be illegal in the U.S. and most of Europe (AFAIK, please pipe up if you know otherwise), it is prohibited by import laws (for the same reason that you cannot fly back from Amsterdam with a pocket full of marijuana). The act of downloading the music from a Russian server constitutes importation, and there are restrictions on that.
Buying a CD, however, is still perfectly legal.
For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
However realize when you buy an Ipod, you're agreeing to use it the way Apple says you can. That means no changing it so it suddenly plays videos if it didn't before. You can, they likely won't hurt you, but the device itself has an agreement somewhere built into it.
The first sale doctrine says that once I buy a device I am free to use it however I see fit--it is mine.
Copyrighted materials attempt to skirt this (with mixed success) by saying that you are paying for a "license" rather than making a purchase. Thus the existence of the EULA for software.
Hardware though does not come with a EULA and even if it did, it would almost certainly be unenforcable.
iTunes has a EULA. iPods do not. It's an important distinction.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Seriously though. What pisses me off is we get giant monopolies like Microsoft who thumb their noses at the law and interoperability but when Apple gets a good thing going, some Bill Gates look-alike geek who's idea of an awesome vacation is to hack into a DRM, has to slip and slide between paragraphs of law to reverse engineer it with the sole interest in breaking up the harmony Apple's got going between the store and the iPod.
... else who has one so they can share it wirelessly with them up to three times.
Sheesh
I won't deny that Apple's setup forces customers to buy iPods and use the iTunes music store. THAT'S THE POINT BEHIND IT! Helloooo! Besides, both the store and the iPod are awesome. If they sucked, they wouldn't have the market share they do. If someone doesn't like Apple's setup, they should buy/rip CD's or buy MP3's from a different store and load them into a different brand's player. What's that? They can't because the other players suck? They should wait for the Zune. Then when they get the "Urge", they can buy a crappier, more limited version of the song from MS and put it on their knock off iPod Zune player and wander around looking for someone... *anyone*
Wrong. It is not exactly the same. You just bought a lower-quality version of the audio tracks compared to what you would have had with a used CD. That is the great iTunes ruse.
Yet some people are willing to accept a slight loss in quality (that may well not be noticable in the way they listen) in order to pay a lot less by buying only a single song instead of a whole CD...
Or nothing. Is nothing better than an iTunes track? Because in some cases, you cannot find a CD used or otherwise.
I've bought some things from ITMS fully understanding the reduced quality an limitations imposed. As the original poster noted you can get out of the restrictions by burning to CD or using an AAC DRM stripper.
There is no ruse, because most people couldn't really tell the difference in quality between tapes and CD's. CD's just offer easier random access which was the real resaon for mass adoption.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The iPod plays MP3's just fine, so anything can play on the iPod. Burning to MP3 is easy last I looked.
So why do it need this tool exactly? Seems like a hacker feeling full of himself after some fame due to hacking.
Now Apple will have to change iTunes constantly, or music companies (the RIAA) will leave iTunes. They would do the same if this "tool" showed up for Windows Media too, it's in their contracts.
Nice job.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
What if your house burns to the ground with CD"s inside? Who is supposed to replace them?
Apple letting you download files again is an enhancement of the way things are now, even if they make it difficult to do so. If they did not allow you to do so you'd only be as badly off as if you'd had physical CD's destroyed.
Besides, you were supposed to have all your music on an iPod as well. iPods are a little cheaper when you realize they also serve as a hot backup for your music.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The compression doesn't have to get worse than where it starts, that's where lossless compression comes in.
I realize there are horrified looks out there from those that use lossless compresion they way it's meant to be used, but hey, it's an option. What else are you going to do with the 1TB iPod of the future?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why should an iPod ad tell you about how purchases from the iTMS are restricted? iPod != iTunes, and no one is forcing you to listen to DRM-encumbered music on your iPod.
RE: your apple iTunes songs....
I burned them to standard CD format (removing the DRM) and I used a program to legally strip off the DRM restrictions using my valid key, and thus not breaking any encryption (no DMCA issues)
Question for you-
Is the quality of your burned CD the same as the one you bought at the store? No.
Now, you can argue I am being picky, but I think that matters and relates to the GP's post about "starting" at MP3. The mp3's you re-rip from your burned album are, relatively speaking, low quality when compared to a 192 or 320 ripped from a store bought CD. Correct, no?
a "terms of service" agreement isn't the same as a EULA. This is about someone complaining that Apple won't provide a service that they never agreed to provide. When MS puts something shady in their EULA people complain about not being allowed to do something with property that they purchased with their own money. Presumably it would be objectionable if Apple put such things in their EULA too.
But then you actually have to listen to the music in order to make a copy of it. Like software and movies, most of us want the right to collect copies of songs on our hard drives; not really to actually, um, listen to the music.
Just get jHymn to strip the copy protection of your downloaded tracks, then convert them to whatever format you wish:
http://hymn-project.org/jhymndoc/
There is even a previous slashdot article...
when you buy an Ipod, you're agreeing to use it the way Apple says you can.
No. No. No. And also, No. What am I agreeing to? Did I sign anything? I don't think so. Well, maybe a credit card statement, but then I'm only agreeing to pay for it. That's it.
If you would so desire to use Apple's iTunes interface to interact with this device, then you have to agree with the use of iTunes' EULA.
Well to that, iTunes can kiss my f*cking ass. You don't have to use iTunes by any means. There are alternatives to iTunes. Hell, some of them even have games that don't suck.
Remember, if you buy a piece of hardware, it's not licensed to you, you're not borrowing it, and you don't have to agree to jack shit. I am sure there are some issues about writing software to circumvent such (crappy/pointless) security measures as FairPlay. But those are unimportant to the end-user. You didn't sign anything saying you wouldn't install software that would hurt Steve Jobs' feelings (well at least I didn't). Exercise your rights. This is the best piece of software for the iPod I've seen in a long time. I'm downloading as we (I) speak.
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
What's stopping Apple from doing the same thing to DVD Jon as they did to Real Networks?
(excuse me if it's a basic question for those following this issue...but what's the answer)
Oh man, so you're telling me you invented the "call people sheep/stupid for having a certain opinion" post? I thought you were just another boring copycat, but you seem to be against parroting out the same old crap. You must have invented it!
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
The point being that this only serves to help illuminate, in the minds of lawmakers, how feeble the current DRM schemes and laws really are, whether the work is ultimately found illegal or not.
That may have been true 10 years ago when the DVD standard was proposed. Things are getting harder. Take the Xbox 360, for example. After a full year of hacking, so far people have not managed to get unsigned executables to run without hardware modifications. And with the compelling online service tied to unmodified hardware, the proposition becomes even less attractive.
Sure, you can run backups on the 360, though that firmware hole is being plugged. But you can expect with every successive generation, hardware in general will get harder and harder to hack, until it is linux-like in its imperviousness.
In other words, demand and protect your rights under the law. Because given enough time you won't be able to do it through hacks.
The ______ Agenda
Real player has worked with the iPod for a while now http://www.real.com/beta/harmony.html http://service.real.com/realplayer/support.html?se ction=iPodRPinstall
It made a lot of news when it was released, but it looks like everyone's more or less forgotten about it.
Of course, I've never used it and I'm not aware of anyone who has, so maybe the geek cred of DVD Jon will make this effort more successful.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
So you are just explaining a quicker way to suck? It still sucks. But at least you realize that.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
The only reason I asked about the authorize/deauthorization backend, is because without it... wouldn't your DVDJohn-FairPlay tunes be locked to just [arbitrary number] of computers &/or iPods?
Wouldn't that sortof mean you get less flexibility than with iTunes?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
That's Wikiality for ya!
Wikileaks, no DNS
What troubles me is that Jon is not trying to help humanity with this new product, he just wants to make money, by screwing someone else's business. That is not very ethical and I personally wouldn't do it. From my point a view, he deserves a nice lawsuit just to help him grow up.
Since when can you overwrite a used sector on a CD-RW? It'll end up costing you a bit less than 1p per song at 15p per CD-RW, since you can fit maybe 20 songs on each. The smaller available mp3 players can hold 2GB; that's about four thousand songs. Being generous, that's sixteen hundred CDs at 25 songs per CD. Do you want to sit there for three hours changing CDs in your CD burner? Do you want to spend a further $240 on your music collection in blank CDs?
And the larger iPods have a capacity of 30GB, not 2GB.
> DT isn't even the first, Real was looking to license their reverse engineering results.
What Real was trying was totally different and could NOT have been stopped by a patent fight. Real was trying to add a module to an iPod to support THEIR closed garden DRM scheme. And as should have been obvious to a small child, Apple thwarted it by continually changing the firmware/software in the iPod. Real produced code implementing Real's DRM schemes was totally legal and immune to a patent fight though.
This is different. If I'm reading this right DT would produce FairPlay encoded tracks. Apparently Apple really was stupid enough to produce a system that didn't sign every track with a public key known only to Apple (or not even DVD-Jon could have done squat to break it open) so an iPod won't be able to tell the difference between an iTunes store produced track and a Walmart.com track. Obviously Apple has patents on FairPlay (yea, patenting DRM, crypto, being cool enough to have Steve bless it, exactly what is non-obvious but they certainly will fight) along with DMCA and any other legal (or not) anti-competitive tricks they can think up.
All of Apple's anti-competitive tricks probably won't be enough legal noise to stop anyone of even moderate means though. There isn't a single thing in FairPlay that isn't self evident to anyone with half a clue so it would only be a matter of someone being willing to spend the cash to push the case to a win. The actaul payload behind the DRM is a standard. While AC3 IS encumbered with patents (that would probably stand up) they aren't owned by Apple and are available under RAND terms.
Democrat delenda est
Just Buy the Friggin CD ALREADY!!! And encode it to whatever format you want and play it on whatever player you want!!! All you who cry about DRM are just a bunch of theives anyways! Who cares about DRM. If i want illegal nonDRMed free music its called BitTorrent not iTunes. If i want legal nonDRMed music its called an AudioCD. If I want instant legal music to play right away its a DRMed AAC file from iTunes. If your player doesn't support DRMed AAC buy the see above examples on how to get an MP3!!!! What is the big f'n deal? There are plenty of options out there people!
Question: What if it's the *same* codec, i.e. AAC? Will the quality be similar to the original? I'm sure it will lose something, but I'm curious how much.
Random is the New Order.
Meanwhile, Apple is teaching consumers--the majority clueless about what they're losing--that highly-compressed, proprietary files are good value.
As His Dudeness says in The Big Lebowski, "This will not stand, ya know, this will not stand, man." Believe it or not, there is a future after so-so quality
Seems that Slashdot is becoming a mouthpiece of the established NeoCon USA Media. How many references to COURTs does one need in ONE article? An attempt at fear mongering? Make sure no one contacts Jon to buy a license?
Notice the lack of discussion about the CRAZED monopolistic Jobs. Hmm seems like they forgot to mention how Jobs lifted the Icon/GUI from Xerox.
If they release it they should be in Jail by the end of the week. iTunes songs as digital files are only liscenced for "authorized devices" enabling any other device would be a blatant DMCA violation. It would be akin to selling a pice of software to enable you to install licensed one copy of windows on hundreds machines.
Admodieus (Monday October 23, @10:17PM): You must not have that big of a music library if you don't realize something is very wrong with this. I should not have to pay for hundreds of blank CDs just to be able to transfer my music collection.
You only need one rewritable CD ...
Either open up the iPod and iTMS this way (Jon) or better yet (Steve) license Fairplay. It's going to happen anyway, so do it on Apple's terms. That's the last you'll hear from Zune, WMA, Microsoft's ability to drag any market through the mud by its nose (repurchase your music library annually anyone?) and the end of the Microsoft Living Room. iPod sales won't be harmed because the rest of the player designers apparently don't "get it" and haven't for years anyway. Require the ability to flash the algorithm in every Fairplay licensed player with a standard command set and Apple could simultaneously defeat bandits and leverage the RIAA greed machine with every incremental update of Fairplay.
Trust the hippies to do the right thing.
Most of the stuff on
In many EU countries (at least the Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain), as well as Canada (I think), downloading music from _any_ source is legal; file sharing networks and AllofMP3.
The same isn't the case in the USA, but I've read that buying from AllofMP3 is ok, because it is considered legally bought in Russia, and then imported into the USA.
You are probably right that AllofMP3's activities wouldn't be legal in many places besides Russia, but this doesn't necessarily imply that it is illegal to do business with them.
Disclaimer: IANAL, but I have made reasonable efforts to understand the issues here.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Seriously though. What pisses me off is we get giant monopolies like Microsoft who thumb their noses at the law and interoperability but when Apple gets a good thing going, some Bill Gates look-alike geek who's idea of an awesome vacation is to hack into a DRM, has to slip and slide between paragraphs of law to reverse engineer it with the sole interest in breaking up the harmony Apple's got going between the store and the iPod.
If you were in front of me right now I would shoot you in the face. I know it sounds harsh but it's for the good of humanity.
Actually I'd do it twice. Once for the pro-DRM, pro-Apple corporate shilling. The other for using "Helloooo!" in a written comment.
I recently wandered into a conversation at work about DRM. One of the guys here uses a 'pay montly' subscription service to get his music. I'm not sure of the details, but from what I gather, as long as you're paying, your music is playable.
Something happened and he was no longer able to play all of his music on one of his devices and he was asking for help fixing it. During the discussion it became totally clear that he has no problem letting someone else tell him what he can do with his content. His exact statement was "Life is full of rules where people tell you what you can and can't do"
Nothing I or anyone else said could convince him that this was a foolish mindset. And we're not talking about an 18 year old kid here, we're talking about a 35 year old professional.
The DRM battle is lost. We can rage against it for as long as we like, but the man in the street appears to have accepted it as fait accompli
However realize when you buy an Ipod, you're agreeing to use it the way Apple says you can. That means no changing it so it suddenly plays videos if it didn't before.
By using the software on the iPod's boot ROM, you are agreeing not to use or distribute the software it in a certain way. You are free to clear the boot ROM, load it with another OS, and use your hardware in any legal way you see fit.
Thanks to alternate OSes, iPods were playing video well before the video iPod was released by Apple.
Er, Allstate? It's called Homeowner's or Renter's insurance. Look into it.
Wow, I didn't know they had the power to force Sony to reprint CD's! That's incredible! Can you point me to the portion of allstae devoted to forcing giant media companies to pull stuff out of a back catalog, or bring lables back from the dead that are gone?
Can they resurrect my cat as well?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Perhaps someone can explain to me where this expectation of interoperability comes from with online (and specifically iTunes) music purchases... Apple makes it very clear that what they're selling you is for consumption using iTunes and iPod only. They even thrown in the ability to burn to a CD, at which point you can do whatever you want!
Perpend:
- nobody buys PS2 games and complains that they don't work on your XBOX
- nobody buys DVDs and then complain that they don't work on VCR
- nobody buys a CD at HMV and then complains that it doesn't fit into your ghetto old walkman
- nobody buys MS Office for Windows with the expectation that it'll run natively on their PowerMac G5
By the logic people seem to be applying here, there should be much outrage that there isn't the interoperability above, but if you ask about doing such thinks people claim that demanding such things is absurd. They'd probably pull out something like "Mechanically, they're different" or "Stop being an idiot, you buy PS2 games for PS2s, not XBOX!"
Apple isn't any more or less clear about what they're selling than the above examples. Just because the "container" happens to be software rather than a physical objet like a CD doesn't mean that there should be an expectation of interoperability. If you feel it's too limiting and it doesn't meet your needs, don't buy from them!
Who here REALLY believes that the game they bought for PS2 should be playable on their XBOX?
On the other hand, most codecs use psycho-accoustic models and introduce noise (loss) where the model says it matters least. This means that the noise introduced by the first compression should be very similar to the noise introduced by the second compression.
The most obvious difference between CD-Rs and CD-RWs is that CD-Rs are write-once read-many media while CD-RWs are re-writeable. That's why people are willing to pay more for CD-RWs.
I'm a bit curious. What did you think was the main advantage of CD-RWs over CD-Rs?
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
Monique Farantzos, managing director at DoubleTwist said:
So, it looks like they're hoping to clone the iTunes Music Store, sell some sort of DRM'd content to existing iPod users and somehow profit. If that's the plan, I have some questions:
Since Apple makes much more money from iPod hardware sales than they do from selling $.99 songs, I can't see a thousand iPod compatible online stores being anything but beneficial to Apple.
Are slashdotters anti-DRM, or just anti-Apple? In the end, it's true, this is not bad for Apple, but they'll still have to fight it, because the studios are watching. Once your DRM is cracked, if it remains cracked you will lose the labels, and that's the end of your store.
Interesting to see that the outlaw rebel freedom fighter DVD Jon is just another damn businessman, huh?
That depends on many things, including the algorithm itself, its configuration, and the type of input.
If you are interested, I encourage you to write a script that uncompresses and recompresses an audio file many times using lossy codes. Please publish your results.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
AllOfMP3 is not legal in the U.S., and in most European countries.
I can't speak for European countries, but all of the researched opinions I've found state that US residents can legally buy music from AllOfMP3 via the internet. The product is purchased in Russia, and imported into the USA. Buying a product in Russia is not illegal, and importing music (including by wire) is not illegal, so the whole process is not illegal. Technically. Of course, IANAL, this has yet to be tested in court, and I'm sure the RIAA is working as we speak to make it illegal.
Don't confuse "legal" with "ethical" or "moral". Using AllOfMP3 seems to be legal in the USA; the question of whether it is ethical or moral is thornier, so I leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Buying a CD, however, is still perfectly legal.
Ripping that CD, however, might not be. And that assumes that you can find a CD which plays correctly in the first place. Three of the last ten CDs I bought had some form of copy-protection on them. I've had four of five discs in the last year which were so screwed up that I couldn't even play them on my standalone, stock, consumer Sony CD player at the house. The RIAA is doing a fine job of killing the CD in my mind.