Look, I respect your opinions, but I think you're seeing some dark spectre, but its just your mind playing tricks.
Yeah, you can't sell SuSE. You can give it away. IANAL but if you give a free copy of SuSE with system purchase, I'd guess there's no foul there.
They're a business, and I find the value-added to be worth the price of admission. So, no one can host an ftp of a SuSE ISO. You can give them away to anyone who wants one though. An enterprise can buy a single copy and use it on thousands of units.
The SuSE NDA uproar was in period for all of 2 weeks, for early-look previeis of the distro, and the publicly available UL release requires no NDA whatsoever.
Here's a link to SuSE's license:
http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/ya st.html
If I come across as a SuSE apologist, its cause I think their work is THAT good, both for their linux distro and their business solutions.
I think they're trying to make money off their own work, much of which is given back via GPL. Any GPL work they incorporate into their products is freely available from their ftp, alongside of Yast et al.
One more post with...SuSE...proprietary... is gonna make me hurl. Have you ever read the Yast license (the only proprietary bit)? It is freely distributable, and you are allowed to modify. You must have a Yast splash screen saying that this is a modified yast and suse is not responsible, and if you modify source, you must make a comment in the source everywhere you made a change. That's it! SuSE is a huge sponsor of KDE and Reiserfs research among many other projects, and you are just spouting off about something you have surmised from other thoughtless posts!
I was thinking that as well, having just installed SuSE 8.1...
However, SuSE allows an update to KDE by simply running their GUI Online Update. I have no doubt that wuthin a few weeks it will be a simple 2 click, restart X Server and voila 3.1. It already updtaed to 3.04, after bundling 3.03 with the release...
I bet that my news submission from 2 days ago:
2002-09-26 11:58:06 Pssst... United Linux Public Beta has been released (articles,linuxbiz) (rejected)
Gets a slashdot article today.
I "switched" my laptop to an iBook...
on
Flirting With Mac OS X
·
· Score: 2, Informative
2 months ago. Still using home brew desktops, but since I can't build a laptop, I figured an OS X, and very sweet looking iBook would work well. There was always PPC Linux and Virtual PC if OS X didn't work out. Well its worked out. I can take care of all my remote administration via command line. The FINK project has ported a lot of good GPL apps to PPC OS X, and incorporates apt-get into the iBook's reportoire.
The iBook 700Mhx (my purchase) is not a speed demon. It runs well though, and can play Warcraft3 acceptably. The Airport card range and battery life is awesome. Two features the Ti Books trail far behind in. Since wireless is a big factr I decided to save about 500 bucks and stick with the iBook. Don't regret it. I'm not switching my desktop off of x86 Linux anytime in the foreseeable future but an Apple laptop is a great machine to tote around.
Gotta disagree. Doom 3 will push your system exponentially harder than UT2k3, and guess what? It'll run natively on linux with any video card you care to use. You don't need S3TC/DXTC to make amazingly complex and detailed graphics. If Epic had chosen to write their engine in OpenGL from the start the non-nvidia linux gamers out there wouldn't be SOL. Its just a lucky break that a single guy on the team made the port, and that's only 'cause the Mac needs an OpenGL engine.
Actually, in my experience, if you delete a file off a network drive under windows, it vanishes forever *POOF*, its only a local file that is placed in the recycle bin. So if a user has been working for hours on a network file and deletes it (before the nightly backup), an admin can browse to its former location and use undelete via the NW client to restore it. A very nice feature.
I've been using it exclusively on the desktop for 2 years and on a few servers at work. This is a step in the right direction for the distro. In SuSE 8, the developer's sought to become more compliant to the LSB (Linux Standard Base) and to streamline their distro. Prior to 8.0, SuSE was sporting both Yast and Yast2. Yast was a carry over from ealier distro's which included an NCURSES based package manager (among many other things). Yast2 provided a clean GUI that could be run under X or via NCurses at a terminal (or over SSH...great!) allowing for easy system updates and administration for newbies and exerienced alike. Those who don't like Yast can turn it off and take responsibility for managing the system manually.
With 8.0, Yast was removed from the distro and a BIG complaint from their user base was the loss of the Yast1 package manager. This clearly is a response to their user base to integrate a package manager into Yast2 (and a powerful looking manager at that).
Please. If you don't use SuSE refrain from the constant "apt" this and "emerge" that. SuSE works very well with apt4rpm if you so desire and if you like Debian or Gentoo (I don't have the patience, it was fun to get it working, but when I'm building several workstations, Gentoo ain't happening), then use them. Linux distro's can peacefully coexist, and as an admin and desktop user of SuSE's distro, I'm glad to see a GUI and console package manager re-integrated into the distro. I'm sure it will only get better.
My sister has a ti G4 450 and yeah, os x is a dog. Works pretty well on the G3 700 that I have, very well actually, and 10.2 is in the mail this week from Apple and should be faster. The early gen ti-books just don't have the power. I wouldn't have bought one back then, UNIX is the only reason I got Apple and frankly, it is only recently viable with current PPC CPU speeds and OS X revisions. I don't think Apple f@@ked up though. They just sold the machine. You bought it.
an iBook. I think laptops are where Apple has a chance. I still build my own boxen, and will not be buying ANYBODY's pre-built systems for my Desktop. But laptops, well you can't custom build them anyway. (At least I sure can't). If I'm gonna buy somebody's hardware for a laptop, Apple's is nicer than most. With Fink, and XDarwin, I can run apt-get to grap redesktop and admin the few Windows Servers I oversee. I'm mounbting SAMBA and NFS drives, as well as SSH'ing into my Unix boxes. And the iBook loos NICE, and OS X is very pleasant. Hell I'm using frotz to play some old infocom games in the OS X terminal. Playin' Warcraft 3 and RtCW.
Also, at least on the iBook, the 802.11b Airport wireless card has a great range. SuSE ain't gettin replaced on my deswktop PC anytime soon, but I blew off Yellow Dog Linux on the iBook. For a laptop, IMHO, OS X does it all.
Funny. Newsforge and News.com both propigated those phrases, with nary a mention of how awkwardly the carriers behaved. It seems the only ones who were taken aback by the NYFairuse crowd was the PC suit and tie geeks who contributed just as much as the panel wanted them to...nothing.
You're off base. Here's a phrase you should take you heart when you use it: "Remember, the truely intelligent are smart enough to know when they are wrong."
I neglected to correct your mispelling of truly for the sake of irony.:)
and I've been reading about the plans to make it to this DRM round table for the last 2 weeks. While it seems like proper "decorum" was substituted with awkward extremism, what was the alternative? Sitting quietly with a raised hand to speak within the context of the panel? Didn't seem to work for Seth Johnson, of the Information Producers Initiative (see newsforge article). Could all of the "corrections" made by the thoughtful, respectful geeks in the crowd have been made if not for the raucous interruptions of the loud NY Fair Use crowd? Staying within the system usually does not work. Which fair use rep actually got the mic at the round table? Brett Wynkoop who knelt at the table IMPERSONATING a panel member.
Although I wasn't there, I don't doubt there was some awkward, extreme heckling taking place. However, NY Fair Use had a single objective on this trip. Get the phrases "We are the Stakeholders!" and "DRM is Theft!" into the public lexicon. The public at large will never know or care about the obnoxious geeks in the crowd, but if those 2 phrases get picked up by the media, they're short, sweet and to the point, then it was a job well done.
Feh. Miller's greatest, most compelling character, Daredevil, could take Batman any day. And he's blind.
Too bad that DD's silver screen debut has the awful Ben Affleck as our hero...sigh. The Miller series w/Elektra, Bullseye, and the reporter, uhhh Ben Urich, is my all time fave. DK and the current DK2 are terrific as well. Miller is just the bomb.
In SuSE 8, his last distro, typing "fetchmsttfonts" at the command line downloads and installs the core MS true type fonts. If I recall correctly, SuSE also places the executable on the KDE menu as a utility, they did in 7.3 anyway...
Anyway, I've copied CD's in SuSE for 2 years, but I had the CD-RW during OS install, not as an add-on later.
I suffer the same knee-jerk distaste when reading about UL. Further, reading the Mandrake press release, I get all misty and want to go out and drop $100+ on their full distro release.
The fact is though I don't like Mandrake's package or config tools. FUrther, I love SuSE's slick tool sets, and while Yast is not under a free license, its actually very open for those who take the time to actually read it.
As for UL, it is intended for the ENTERPRISE. The desktop distro's of the various UL members are unaffected. The entire point of UL is to provide a solid target for enterprise level developer's when creating software. Further, it gives a company thinking of moving to Linux a strong partnership to get support from.
Everyone running Linux on their home/work desktop can stick to their favorite and whether its under the UL umbrella or not you won't notice the difference. I strongly agree with many of the sentiments in the Mandrake letter vis a vis Linux. That's great for end user's and the public, but do you think the Linux servers installed by Big Blue aren't standardized? It makes it easier for companies like IBM or HP to offer Linux to high end markets.
I'll stick to SuSE, with its cutting edge packages, ridiculous ease of use and it runs the gamut from total noob distro to hard core enterprise server. And the config tools make a joke of Mandrake's offerings.
I did some consulting at a HUGE children's book publisher in lower Manhattan a couple years back. There were thousands of employees spanning 3 or 4 buildings. Servers galore, but hardly anyone used them, save for their Exchange mail.
When someone's machine would die, at times years of work would be lost. I couldn't believe it. I came from a background of small business consulting and made sure every user understood that data that was not saved on the network would be irrecoverable if disaster struck, further no attempt would be made to recover C: drive data.
I found that spending less than 5 minutes per employeee was usually all it took to convince them to use the server. All it takes is for someone to speak in plain english about the risks. The big corporation had no formal computer policy or introduction for new hires. It was a mess.
iFolder, as mentioned previously, is the roxor. It is extremely simple to set up and lets your road warriors, home users stay in sync, no VPN required. I LOVE NOVELL NETWARE!!!
I don't care if people want to use WineX for RtCW. I use the linux binaries, they work great, and I really see no need for WineX under this title. I don't really want to see developer attention given to making a native linux title run, but if its easier for the user, then go for it.
Quake2 runs under linux, but if you don't have a 3dfx card, documentation to get it running is VERY hard to find. I couldn't find it. I installed Q2 under WineX and it works as better than it did under windows when it was released. ( I also didn't have an nvidia GF4 4600 Ti back then;)
Jedi Knight 2, Max Payne, Soldier of Fortune 2 Full Version, Half Life, HL Counter Strike, Sacrifice, Quake 2.
Quake 2 had linux binaries available, but they were intended for a 3dfx chipset. Documentation on getting Q2 to run on OpenGL (Nvidia) hardware is SO hard to come by, that I just said screw it and installed under WineX. Works as well as under windows natively. SoF2 was released YESTERDAY, a cutting edge title that runs under linux thanks to winex (issues to install, see transgaming forum's for details).
I love WineX. I believe the the big money payoff for this announcement is the Mac folks comsumer base. They wait a looong time for a meager trickle of PC games, this could work to making main stream games available to them upon initial release. Linux is not mentioned in the press release, but I'm assuming that by x86 PC, Linux is the main target, as windows needs no help to run native apps.
The optimistic result of this (if the tech pans out) is that developer's are so happy to have a multi-platform release that they adopt open design standards (sound and graphics) as opposed to DirectX API, to keep their titles available for all platform's via the WineX environment. That's a step closer to open standard games which require no WineX. As has been posted, there are open standards (SDL, etc) that could be used now to accomplish this, but what we need are baby steps that result in sales $$$ to publisher's as a result of the broad cross platform market.
Slashdot Mirror
Look, I respect your opinions, but I think you're seeing some dark spectre, but its just your mind playing tricks. Yeah, you can't sell SuSE. You can give it away. IANAL but if you give a free copy of SuSE with system purchase, I'd guess there's no foul there. They're a business, and I find the value-added to be worth the price of admission. So, no one can host an ftp of a SuSE ISO. You can give them away to anyone who wants one though. An enterprise can buy a single copy and use it on thousands of units. The SuSE NDA uproar was in period for all of 2 weeks, for early-look previeis of the distro, and the publicly available UL release requires no NDA whatsoever. Here's a link to SuSE's license: http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/ya st.html
If I come across as a SuSE apologist, its cause I think their work is THAT good, both for their linux distro and their business solutions.
I think they're trying to make money off their own work, much of which is given back via GPL. Any GPL work they incorporate into their products is freely available from their ftp, alongside of Yast et al.
One more post with ...SuSE...proprietary... is gonna make me hurl. Have you ever read the Yast license (the only proprietary bit)? It is freely distributable, and you are allowed to modify. You must have a Yast splash screen saying that this is a modified yast and suse is not responsible, and if you modify source, you must make a comment in the source everywhere you made a change. That's it! SuSE is a huge sponsor of KDE and Reiserfs research among many other projects, and you are just spouting off about something you have surmised from other thoughtless posts!
Yes. Last THursday, at CompUSA, 5th Avenue + 38th Street, Manhattan, NYC, NY. SUSE 8.1 Pro or Personal.
I was thinking that as well, having just installed SuSE 8.1... However, SuSE allows an update to KDE by simply running their GUI Online Update. I have no doubt that wuthin a few weeks it will be a simple 2 click, restart X Server and voila 3.1. It already updtaed to 3.04, after bundling 3.03 with the release...
I bet that my news submission from 2 days ago: 2002-09-26 11:58:06 Pssst... United Linux Public Beta has been released (articles,linuxbiz) (rejected) Gets a slashdot article today.
2 months ago. Still using home brew desktops, but since I can't build a laptop, I figured an OS X, and very sweet looking iBook would work well. There was always PPC Linux and Virtual PC if OS X didn't work out. Well its worked out. I can take care of all my remote administration via command line. The FINK project has ported a lot of good GPL apps to PPC OS X, and incorporates apt-get into the iBook's reportoire. The iBook 700Mhx (my purchase) is not a speed demon. It runs well though, and can play Warcraft3 acceptably. The Airport card range and battery life is awesome. Two features the Ti Books trail far behind in. Since wireless is a big factr I decided to save about 500 bucks and stick with the iBook. Don't regret it. I'm not switching my desktop off of x86 Linux anytime in the foreseeable future but an Apple laptop is a great machine to tote around.
when the Zork trilogy hits he console. 20 years and counting...
Gotta disagree. Doom 3 will push your system exponentially harder than UT2k3, and guess what? It'll run natively on linux with any video card you care to use. You don't need S3TC/DXTC to make amazingly complex and detailed graphics. If Epic had chosen to write their engine in OpenGL from the start the non-nvidia linux gamers out there wouldn't be SOL. Its just a lucky break that a single guy on the team made the port, and that's only 'cause the Mac needs an OpenGL engine.
Actually, in my experience, if you delete a file off a network drive under windows, it vanishes forever *POOF*, its only a local file that is placed in the recycle bin. So if a user has been working for hours on a network file and deletes it (before the nightly backup), an admin can browse to its former location and use undelete via the NW client to restore it. A very nice feature.
You can turn off Yast entirely. Then you are completely responsible to maintain configs by hand. rc.config was also removed in SuSE 8.
I've been using it exclusively on the desktop for 2 years and on a few servers at work. This is a step in the right direction for the distro. In SuSE 8, the developer's sought to become more compliant to the LSB (Linux Standard Base) and to streamline their distro. Prior to 8.0, SuSE was sporting both Yast and Yast2. Yast was a carry over from ealier distro's which included an NCURSES based package manager (among many other things). Yast2 provided a clean GUI that could be run under X or via NCurses at a terminal (or over SSH...great!) allowing for easy system updates and administration for newbies and exerienced alike. Those who don't like Yast can turn it off and take responsibility for managing the system manually. With 8.0, Yast was removed from the distro and a BIG complaint from their user base was the loss of the Yast1 package manager. This clearly is a response to their user base to integrate a package manager into Yast2 (and a powerful looking manager at that). Please. If you don't use SuSE refrain from the constant "apt" this and "emerge" that. SuSE works very well with apt4rpm if you so desire and if you like Debian or Gentoo (I don't have the patience, it was fun to get it working, but when I'm building several workstations, Gentoo ain't happening), then use them. Linux distro's can peacefully coexist, and as an admin and desktop user of SuSE's distro, I'm glad to see a GUI and console package manager re-integrated into the distro. I'm sure it will only get better.
My sister has a ti G4 450 and yeah, os x is a dog. Works pretty well on the G3 700 that I have, very well actually, and 10.2 is in the mail this week from Apple and should be faster. The early gen ti-books just don't have the power. I wouldn't have bought one back then, UNIX is the only reason I got Apple and frankly, it is only recently viable with current PPC CPU speeds and OS X revisions. I don't think Apple f@@ked up though. They just sold the machine. You bought it.
an iBook. I think laptops are where Apple has a chance. I still build my own boxen, and will not be buying ANYBODY's pre-built systems for my Desktop. But laptops, well you can't custom build them anyway. (At least I sure can't). If I'm gonna buy somebody's hardware for a laptop, Apple's is nicer than most. With Fink, and XDarwin, I can run apt-get to grap redesktop and admin the few Windows Servers I oversee. I'm mounbting SAMBA and NFS drives, as well as SSH'ing into my Unix boxes. And the iBook loos NICE, and OS X is very pleasant. Hell I'm using frotz to play some old infocom games in the OS X terminal. Playin' Warcraft 3 and RtCW.
Also, at least on the iBook, the 802.11b Airport wireless card has a great range. SuSE ain't gettin replaced on my deswktop PC anytime soon, but I blew off Yellow Dog Linux on the iBook. For a laptop, IMHO, OS X does it all.
This is no good :(. First thing I do with a new SuSE install is fetchmsttfonts.
Funny. Newsforge and News.com both propigated those phrases, with nary a mention of how awkwardly the carriers behaved. It seems the only ones who were taken aback by the NYFairuse crowd was the PC suit and tie geeks who contributed just as much as the panel wanted them to...nothing. You're off base. Here's a phrase you should take you heart when you use it:
:)
"Remember, the truely intelligent are smart enough to know when they are wrong."
I neglected to correct your mispelling of truly for the sake of irony.
and I've been reading about the plans to make it to this DRM round table for the last 2 weeks. While it seems like proper "decorum" was substituted with awkward extremism, what was the alternative? Sitting quietly with a raised hand to speak within the context of the panel? Didn't seem to work for Seth Johnson, of the Information Producers Initiative (see newsforge article). Could all of the "corrections" made by the thoughtful, respectful geeks in the crowd have been made if not for the raucous interruptions of the loud NY Fair Use crowd? Staying within the system usually does not work. Which fair use rep actually got the mic at the round table? Brett Wynkoop who knelt at the table IMPERSONATING a panel member. Although I wasn't there, I don't doubt there was some awkward, extreme heckling taking place. However, NY Fair Use had a single objective on this trip. Get the phrases "We are the Stakeholders!" and "DRM is Theft!" into the public lexicon. The public at large will never know or care about the obnoxious geeks in the crowd, but if those 2 phrases get picked up by the media, they're short, sweet and to the point, then it was a job well done.
That was goddam funny. Busted a gut.
Feh. Miller's greatest, most compelling character, Daredevil, could take Batman any day. And he's blind. Too bad that DD's silver screen debut has the awful Ben Affleck as our hero...sigh. The Miller series w/Elektra, Bullseye, and the reporter, uhhh Ben Urich, is my all time fave. DK and the current DK2 are terrific as well. Miller is just the bomb.
In SuSE 8, his last distro, typing "fetchmsttfonts" at the command line downloads and installs the core MS true type fonts. If I recall correctly, SuSE also places the executable on the KDE menu as a utility, they did in 7.3 anyway... Anyway, I've copied CD's in SuSE for 2 years, but I had the CD-RW during OS install, not as an add-on later.
I suffer the same knee-jerk distaste when reading about UL. Further, reading the Mandrake press release, I get all misty and want to go out and drop $100+ on their full distro release.
The fact is though I don't like Mandrake's package or config tools. FUrther, I love SuSE's slick tool sets, and while Yast is not under a free license, its actually very open for those who take the time to actually read it.
As for UL, it is intended for the ENTERPRISE. The desktop distro's of the various UL members are unaffected. The entire point of UL is to provide a solid target for enterprise level developer's when creating software. Further, it gives a company thinking of moving to Linux a strong partnership to get support from.
Everyone running Linux on their home/work desktop can stick to their favorite and whether its under the UL umbrella or not you won't notice the difference. I strongly agree with many of the sentiments in the Mandrake letter vis a vis Linux. That's great for end user's and the public, but do you think the Linux servers installed by Big Blue aren't standardized? It makes it easier for companies like IBM or HP to offer Linux to high end
markets.
I'll stick to SuSE, with its cutting edge packages, ridiculous ease of use and it runs the gamut from total noob distro to hard core enterprise server. And the config tools make a joke of Mandrake's offerings.
I did some consulting at a HUGE children's book publisher in lower Manhattan a couple years back. There were thousands of employees spanning 3 or 4 buildings. Servers galore, but hardly anyone used them, save for their Exchange mail. When someone's machine would die, at times years of work would be lost. I couldn't believe it. I came from a background of small business consulting and made sure every user understood that data that was not saved on the network would be irrecoverable if disaster struck, further no attempt would be made to recover C: drive data. I found that spending less than 5 minutes per employeee was usually all it took to convince them to use the server. All it takes is for someone to speak in plain english about the risks. The big corporation had no formal computer policy or introduction for new hires. It was a mess. iFolder, as mentioned previously, is the roxor. It is extremely simple to set up and lets your road warriors, home users stay in sync, no VPN required. I LOVE NOVELL NETWARE!!!
Thanks! I'll give it a shot.
I don't care if people want to use WineX for RtCW. I use the linux binaries, they work great, and I really see no need for WineX under this title. I don't really want to see developer attention given to making a native linux title run, but if its easier for the user, then go for it.
;)
Quake2 runs under linux, but if you don't have a 3dfx card, documentation to get it running is VERY hard to find. I couldn't find it. I installed Q2 under WineX and it works as better than it did under windows when it was released. ( I also didn't have an nvidia GF4 4600 Ti back then
Jedi Knight 2, Max Payne, Soldier of Fortune 2 Full Version, Half Life, HL Counter Strike, Sacrifice, Quake 2.
Quake 2 had linux binaries available, but they were intended for a 3dfx chipset. Documentation on getting Q2 to run on OpenGL (Nvidia) hardware is SO hard to come by, that I just said screw it and installed under WineX. Works as well as under windows natively. SoF2 was released YESTERDAY, a cutting edge title that runs under linux thanks to winex (issues to install, see transgaming forum's for details).
I love WineX. I believe the the big money payoff for this announcement is the Mac folks comsumer base. They wait a looong time for a meager trickle of PC games, this could work to making main stream games available to them upon initial release. Linux is not mentioned in the press release, but I'm assuming that by x86 PC, Linux is the main target, as windows needs no help to run native apps. The optimistic result of this (if the tech pans out) is that developer's are so happy to have a multi-platform release that they adopt open design standards (sound and graphics) as opposed to DirectX API, to keep their titles available for all platform's via the WineX environment. That's a step closer to open standard games which require no WineX. As has been posted, there are open standards (SDL, etc) that could be used now to accomplish this, but what we need are baby steps that result in sales $$$ to publisher's as a result of the broad cross platform market.
Soldier of Fortune 2 is working fine on my SuSE PC with the latest WineX. Check transgaming's support board for SoF2 for details.