Actually, I didn't mean to present that as a factual quote (quotation marks notwithstanding), I was simply trying to present a counterpoint to the original poster's assertion that a publisher shouldn't sell their work if he/she/it didn't want him doing whatever he pleases.
The law sides with the OP, according to the code you cite, and this might (imho) be the reason why Microsoft wants to move to a subscription based model and do away with retail, I guess. With a contract involved (not just an EULA), they will have more leverage to restrict software usage.
Fact is, no matter what Microsoft says, you can reverse engineer, and make changes to their software. It is 100% legal to take a Windows "demo disc" or a XP Home, and apply a patch to the registry that turns it into XP Pro. It's also legal to redistribute that patch.
Won't the DMCA overrule this? IANAL. I'm also not American nor I live in the U.S. so my knowledge of U.S. law is limited to Boston Legal.
Once you sell that software to me, you no longer have the right to determine how that software is used. If you don't want me using it however I please, don't sell it.
You might be looking at it from the wrong perspective:
"Once you buy the software, you agree to abide by the terms set by the publisher (seller). If you don't want to do this, please don't buy it."
(This does not necessarily reflect my opinion, but I like to look at issues from as many angles as possible)
That looks pretty nifty. Too bad it isn't available outside the U.S.
Site makes no mention of legal issues tho, but since it's got limited availability, I guess there are none. Still, they should have a faq or section explaining that users will not be left high and dry because BSA came knocking up their door.
but what I'd really like to see on Steam is the "ancient school" games that used to run on Win95/DOS running under Windows XP and available $5-$10 a pop.
I'll say! I would gladly pay (again!) for a chance to play "Master or Orion", the Ultima series (incl. Worlds of Ultima) with no hassle on modern hardware/OS.
Still, this is a good idea. I never bought CIV III or IV, so I guess I'll give them a whirl.
WTF are you talking about? I bought Half Life (original), Opposing Force and Blueshift retail several years ago and activated them on steam when it came out with no problems at all.
Considering how powerful video cards and PCs have become it's unforgivable for a product like this to have such ugly graphics and such poor performance. The flexibility is really interesting but to what end? People blundering with choppy video about in an empty looking 3d world with as much visual depth as a Mario game?
You summed up my feelings quite nicely.
I haven't been frustrated by an online game since Anarchy Online. The performance is god-awful. Moving was a bear since it was done via keyboard and there was about a second delay from keypress to actual movement. And this was on a "decent" PC (Pentium 4 with 1 GB of RAM and 256KB broadband).
I made it past the tutorial and decided to call it quits.
I don't know for sure what the parent was thinking is the source but IMHO it is the gateway. If ISP's and System Administrators would install IPS or at least ACL's on the firewall that restrict outgoing traffic to known ports the inside machines would be safer and spam would be cut down to a trickle. Sure some bots will use 80 or 443 or 25 etc... but with a good IPS (snort--cough--snort) you can catch them.
For a closed (e.g. corporate) network this should be standard procedure, but for an ISP, it wouldn't work. When you have an large group of heterogeneous users (say, cablemodem or dsl), how do you know what to restrict and what to allow? A "default-deny" policy would be unacceptable here.
fix the problem at its source and stop screwing around.
And what is the source?
If the source is an insecure OS, how are we going to convince the botnet fodder to patch/upgrade/secure ? Even if Vista turns out to be a very secure OS, we will have to wait for a couple of generations before adoption is widespread. Do you know anybody who still uses Windows 98? I do.
Is the battle already lost? Probably not. But for the moment they are winning, and all the actions we can take are purely reactive.
Though I don't like the part where they say "Making personal backups of these games is illegal, even if you don't distribute them. There is no need to make personal backups."
I think they include that in all their product. I remember reading that on my Gamecube manual and thinking "WTF!? The gall of them..." The wording could have been a little more diplomatic.
Here's the question though. Is fiction really ment to be interactive? Or is fiction the journey the author leads you on?
Why can't it be both? When you move from one medium to another, there's always a period of adjustment and sometimes new creative mechanisms and paradigms must be developed. When you try to "migrate" a work of fiction from one medium to another, the results tend to be shoddy, which is why seldom books adapt well to the movie screen and why movies give way to crappy games tie ins.
Now, both books and movies are guided journeys but this only means that new storytelling forms have to be found.
Aren't pen-n-paper rpgs a form of interactive fiction. It might not be for everyone, but I'd call it succesful. Most computer RPG are actually puzzles with a background but if they are done right and the story is engrossing enough, you don't really care.
Unlike you and I, most people aren't all that tech-savvy, and will buy music instead of downloading it.
Ok. Your original post didn't state that most people buy music instead of downloading. You said "[...] when most of us (at least 60%,) own the CDs we're downloading off the net." What I called into question was the 60% figure. Where did you get that from? If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say no more than 5 - 10% of people who download music legally own the original cds (how cynic of me, I guess). And I'm not taking into account iTunes customers.
Besides, you don't need to be tech-savvy to download music. All you need is a computer and a net connection. Most P2P programs are dead simple to use. I know several people (again, anecdotal evidence) who don't even know where to access the network configuration settings of their OS and they have 1 or 3 p2p programs on their computer (along with a bunch of spyware that comes with them). Not only they download music, but movies and software as well.
when most of us (at least 60%,) own the CDs we're downloading off the net
Can you back that up? I'm guessing you pulled that number out of your ass. Like you, I can only speak of anecdotal evidence, but I've yet to meet someone who downloads music he already owns the cd for.
Of course it might be that I'm simply hanging around with the wrong crowd but I suspect that's not the case.
Are you sure of that? It seems to me that the GPL and Linux have had a rather symbiotic relationship. Without the GPL Linux would probably not have gotten very far or at least very fast (it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Linus chosen BSD style license). And without Linux, would the GPL have gotten all the notoriety it enjoys today?
Believe it or not, you can download Solaris X86 from Sun Microsystems and run it, for free. It now has the Gnome desktop, good browser support, and (obviously) Star Office (or Open Office).
And what advantage over Linux/Freebsd would it have? Same desktop environment (unless you chose cde, I guess), a more convoluted patch system (does Sun support automatic updates, anyway?) and less hardware support (tho I'll admit that as of Solaris 9 I haven't had hw compatibilty issues).
Plus, last time I went to sunsolve to download a patch, it had a warning that patches would be available to support contract holders. I was able to download the recommended/security cluster, tho.
You despise Windows, Linux and MacOSX as desktop OS? Is there an alternative you would go for on your desktop? FreeBSD? (no real advantage on the desktop over Linux)
Oh, yeah. He nearly destroyed the economy in Chile, by turning it into a test-bed for academic theory hatched at the Hoover Institution.
Are you sure of that? Plenty of people have told me that Chile is the only country in Latin America that is not considered underdeveloped (never been there myself).
True. And that is truly the worst any exploitable application should do.
Indeed. But if your is a multiuser machine (with each person having separate users/home dirs), the lost and or compromise of your data might not affect everybody else's.
Use the package manager, or if you like the command line, "sudo apt-get install vlc"
You do realize that VLC was only used as an example, right? If the program you want installed exists in your distro repository (or the distributor of the software has a compatible repo), all is well and good. If it isn't, then you might get all the issues stated by the gp (sometimes even if you compile the software yourself).
Even with a package converter (such as alien) you still get the dependency issues as well as pre/post install scripts, file location issues (/usr/bin or/usr/local/bin or/usr/local/appname/bin or/opt/appname/bin etc), init scripts, etc.
If you are a programmer or don't mind compiling apps, then this is less of an issue. But Linux can never hope to overtake MS this way.
Slashdot Mirror
I can appreciate this, but you're still wrong.
Actually, I didn't mean to present that as a factual quote (quotation marks notwithstanding), I was simply trying to present a counterpoint to the original poster's assertion that a publisher shouldn't sell their work if he/she/it didn't want him doing whatever he pleases.
The law sides with the OP, according to the code you cite, and this might (imho) be the reason why Microsoft wants to move to a subscription based model and do away with retail, I guess. With a contract involved (not just an EULA), they will have more leverage to restrict software usage.
Fact is, no matter what Microsoft says, you can reverse engineer, and make changes to their software. It is 100% legal to take a Windows "demo disc" or a XP Home, and apply a patch to the registry that turns it into XP Pro. It's also legal to redistribute that patch.
Won't the DMCA overrule this? IANAL. I'm also not American nor I live in the U.S. so my knowledge of U.S. law is limited to Boston Legal.
Once you sell that software to me, you no longer have the right to determine how that software is used. If you don't want me using it however I please, don't sell it.
You might be looking at it from the wrong perspective:
"Once you buy the software, you agree to abide by the terms set by the publisher (seller). If you don't want to do this, please don't buy it."
(This does not necessarily reflect my opinion, but I like to look at issues from as many angles as possible)
That looks pretty nifty. Too bad it isn't available outside the U.S.
Site makes no mention of legal issues tho, but since it's got limited availability, I guess there are none. Still, they should have a faq or section explaining that users will not be left high and dry because BSA came knocking up their door.
but what I'd really like to see on Steam is the "ancient school" games that used to run on Win95/DOS running under Windows XP and available $5-$10 a pop.
I'll say! I would gladly pay (again!) for a chance to play "Master or Orion", the Ultima series (incl. Worlds of Ultima) with no hassle on modern hardware/OS.
Still, this is a good idea. I never bought CIV III or IV, so I guess I'll give them a whirl.
WTF are you talking about? I bought Half Life (original), Opposing Force and Blueshift retail several years ago and activated them on steam when it came out with no problems at all.
Considering how powerful video cards and PCs have become it's unforgivable for a product like this to have such ugly graphics and such poor performance. The flexibility is really interesting but to what end? People blundering with choppy video about in an empty looking 3d world with as much visual depth as a Mario game?
You summed up my feelings quite nicely.
I haven't been frustrated by an online game since Anarchy Online. The performance is god-awful. Moving was a bear since it was done via keyboard and there was about a second delay from keypress to actual movement. And this was on a "decent" PC (Pentium 4 with 1 GB of RAM and 256KB broadband).
I made it past the tutorial and decided to call it quits.
I don't know for sure what the parent was thinking is the source but IMHO it is the gateway. If ISP's and System Administrators would install IPS or at least ACL's on the firewall that restrict outgoing traffic to known ports the inside machines would be safer and spam would be cut down to a trickle. Sure some bots will use 80 or 443 or 25 etc... but with a good IPS (snort--cough--snort) you can catch them.
For a closed (e.g. corporate) network this should be standard procedure, but for an ISP, it wouldn't work. When you have an large group of heterogeneous users (say, cablemodem or dsl), how do you know what to restrict and what to allow? A "default-deny" policy would be unacceptable here.
fix the problem at its source and stop screwing around.
And what is the source?
If the source is an insecure OS, how are we going to convince the botnet fodder to patch/upgrade/secure ? Even if Vista turns out to be a very secure OS, we will have to wait for a couple of generations before adoption is widespread. Do you know anybody who still uses Windows 98? I do.
Is the battle already lost? Probably not. But for the moment they are winning, and all the actions we can take are purely reactive.
Though I don't like the part where they say "Making personal backups of these games is illegal, even if you don't distribute them. There is no need to make personal backups."
I think they include that in all their product. I remember reading that on my Gamecube manual and thinking "WTF!? The gall of them..." The wording could have been a little more diplomatic.
Here's the question though. Is fiction really ment to be interactive? Or is fiction the journey the author leads you on?
Why can't it be both? When you move from one medium to another, there's always a period of adjustment and sometimes new creative mechanisms and paradigms must be developed. When you try to "migrate" a work of fiction from one medium to another, the results tend to be shoddy, which is why seldom books adapt well to the movie screen and why movies give way to crappy games tie ins.
Now, both books and movies are guided journeys but this only means that new storytelling forms have to be found.
Aren't pen-n-paper rpgs a form of interactive fiction. It might not be for everyone, but I'd call it succesful. Most computer RPG are actually puzzles with a background but if they are done right and the story is engrossing enough, you don't really care.
That threw me in a loop for a bit until I realized you meant "Adult sites" webmasters.
I mean, come on, it sounded like all those under 18 webmasters caught on early and us clueless adults as usual are two years too late to the party.
Hootie and the Blowfish's still cool, right? Or where they ever? Is it cool to say cool? Where did I put my Ace of Base CD?
Unlike you and I, most people aren't all that tech-savvy, and will buy music instead of downloading it.
Ok. Your original post didn't state that most people buy music instead of downloading. You said "[...] when most of us (at least 60%,) own the CDs we're downloading off the net." What I called into question was the 60% figure. Where did you get that from? If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say no more than 5 - 10% of people who download music legally own the original cds (how cynic of me, I guess). And I'm not taking into account iTunes customers.
Besides, you don't need to be tech-savvy to download music. All you need is a computer and a net connection. Most P2P programs are dead simple to use. I know several people (again, anecdotal evidence) who don't even know where to access the network configuration settings of their OS and they have 1 or 3 p2p programs on their computer (along with a bunch of spyware that comes with them). Not only they download music, but movies and software as well.
when most of us (at least 60%,) own the CDs we're downloading off the net
Can you back that up? I'm guessing you pulled that number out of your ass. Like you, I can only speak of anecdotal evidence, but I've yet to meet someone who downloads music he already owns the cd for.
Of course it might be that I'm simply hanging around with the wrong crowd but I suspect that's not the case.
(and let his project die in obscurity in 1992)
Are you sure of that? It seems to me that the GPL and Linux have had a rather symbiotic relationship. Without the GPL Linux would probably not have gotten very far or at least very fast (it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Linus chosen BSD style license). And without Linux, would the GPL have gotten all the notoriety it enjoys today?
Believe it or not, you can download Solaris X86 from Sun Microsystems and run it, for free. It now has the Gnome desktop, good browser support, and (obviously) Star Office (or Open Office).
And what advantage over Linux/Freebsd would it have? Same desktop environment (unless you chose cde, I guess), a more convoluted patch system (does Sun support automatic updates, anyway?) and less hardware support (tho I'll admit that as of Solaris 9 I haven't had hw compatibilty issues).
Plus, last time I went to sunsolve to download a patch, it had a warning that patches would be available to support contract holders. I was able to download the recommended/security cluster, tho.
You despise Windows, Linux and MacOSX as desktop OS? Is there an alternative you would go for on your desktop? FreeBSD? (no real advantage on the desktop over Linux)
Don't make me remember being forced to play that game. Please.
uh... right... forced...
There are over three billion women in the world and none of them want to have sex with me. That, my friends (*), is rejection.
You can always try men... or animals.
Oh, yeah. He nearly destroyed the economy in Chile, by turning it into a test-bed for academic theory hatched at the Hoover Institution.
Are you sure of that? Plenty of people have told me that Chile is the only country in Latin America that is not considered underdeveloped (never been there myself).
True. And that is truly the worst any exploitable application should do.
Indeed. But if your is a multiuser machine (with each person having separate users/home dirs), the lost and or compromise of your data might not affect everybody else's.
"Highbrow" carries a snobbish negative connotation. I don't think I want any "highbrow" games.
Hmpf... it's all for the best, really. You probably wouldn't understand such forms of art anyway. Pearls to swine and all that...
The only useful thing to come out of a meetup would be if one of them got stuck and needed a tow
A tow to where?
"Free Lasik Surgery" -- in a label next to a FC port.
Why would you create two clean modules only to have it fucked up by someone who doesn't know squat about them?
To save money at the expense of quality/reliability. Duh.
Use the package manager, or if you like the command line, "sudo apt-get install vlc"
/usr/local/bin or /usr/local/appname/bin or /opt/appname/bin etc), init scripts, etc.
You do realize that VLC was only used as an example, right? If the program you want installed exists in your distro repository (or the distributor of the software has a compatible repo), all is well and good. If it isn't, then you might get all the issues stated by the gp (sometimes even if you compile the software yourself).
Even with a package converter (such as alien) you still get the dependency issues as well as pre/post install scripts, file location issues (/usr/bin or
If you are a programmer or don't mind compiling apps, then this is less of an issue. But Linux can never hope to overtake MS this way.