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What Gartner Is Telling Your Boss

Littlewink writes, "Esther Schindler's latest analysis reveals what Gartner is telling your boss at their annual conference. Excerpts: '"The future of application development is not about programmer productivity," said [Gartner analyst] Hoyle during the keynote presentation, "but in assembling functionality from components." [Gartner analyst] Veccio stated "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"' According to Schindler (who does not 'drink the Kool-Aid'), Gartner urges managers to consider better process control and governance, managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios. Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'"

284 comments

  1. Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    My boss hears things like Linux's a legal risk, SCO might win, etc.


    Basically they're just another rent-a-quote firm for people who buy their services

    1. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Geez....I see more time and money spent WASTED on meetings to put together paperwork to bet processes documented, and procedures set, most of which is done by people who have NO clue as to how to code or put together a database, or gui or webpage.

      More crap time is spent doing this stupid stuff, rather than getting the ball rolling and actually putting something together. I've seen projects waste their time and money on this.....and run out of both, to never get the project off the ground.

      Sure, I know you need to do some of this stuff, but, really...often these days, all you have are mgmt types that know nothing besides these buzzwords, meetings and paperwork....the actual work to be done and deliverables to be produced are merely a nagging side item.

      "It is the process that is the most important thing..." Thank the Lord I've not had a gun each time I've hear that one.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sure, I know you need to do some of this stuff, but, really...often these days, all you have are mgmt types that know nothing besides these buzzwords, meetings and paperwork....the actual work to be done and deliverables to be produced are merely a nagging side item.

      While I admit that sometimes the process does get in the way, the fact is there is a good reason for 'process'. Presently, I am consulting at a place that doesn't really HAVE a process. They don't have meetings to complete paperwork or to discuss plans. They are very much into cutting edge technology. Every critical application is on the very latest OS and Hardware combination possible. They purchase the latest version of everything the very week it is released. And, their developers are busy coding away, instead of worrying about submitting documents or creating change requests.

      While that may SOUND like a great place to work, the fact is, the place is a disaster. They are almost entirely in reaction mode. They never use project plans, so no one has any idea how long it will take to complete a task. That is a bad thing, if YOUR project is dependent upon someone else complete that task and you don't know how long it will take them.

      They are always rushing to place a hardware order, or to configure the hardware to get it in place, because they want to have the latest and greatest of everything. Unfortunately, because most of their application vendors haven't even agreed to support the latest technology, they are either installing the latest technology without support (a very dangerous thing) or they are always on the phone to various developers, trying to get support.

      Because they don't plan their system changes (using formal change procedures), I know of at least one example where payroll production crashed and burned because of an unrequested change (that is completely unacceptable when you have thousands of employees waiting for their pay stubs).

      Oh, the developers? They are putting in 60 hour weeks, always juggling tasks, trying to complete EVERYTHING, because EVERYTHING is last-minute rush.

      I could go on for pages, but I think you get the point.

    3. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by QuickFox · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I see more time and money spent WASTED on meetings to put together paperwork...

      Wasted? Clearly you have misunderstood the purpose of the meetings and the other process arrangements. The purpose isn't to produce software! The purpose is to give employment to people who wouldn't have employment were it not for the meetings, buzzwords etc.

      the actual work to be done and deliverables to be produced are merely a nagging side item.

      So you did understand after all.

      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    4. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      I've just turned my notice in after working in such a place for about six months. It's kind of like driving your car everywhere in first gear - you might be able to get away with it for a little while, but it's horribly inefficient and eventually the engine *will* blow up if you try it on the highway (i.e. in a real production environment).

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    5. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by twbecker · · Score: 1

      I've worked in both extremes; a consulting project that was rated at CMM Level 3 solely so the company could check a box on a marketing sheet, and my current job, which is a lot like what you describe. While I was working for the consulting firm, I was about as apprehensive to process as the grandparent. Now I fight for more processes, and better documented ones. The key is to have the appropriate level of red tape for your organization.

      --
      "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
    6. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by onegear · · Score: 0

      not sure how, but i made my way to their contact list. probably my old boss at work placed me on their list when i was working for him. they're constantly emailing and calling me. i finally answered the phone, one day, and gave the person on the line an ear full about their services. funny....i haven't received and email or phone call in 3 months or so. :-)

    7. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Oh we have a process.
      Very robust.
      Every team is consulted.
      It can take months to do what used to be a 40 hour project.
      It saves a lot of waste on stupid projects tho.

      Except the stupid projects get shoved down by executives *LIKE ALWAYS* who bypass the process that applies to everyone else's projects.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    8. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by djrok212 · · Score: 2

      I'm glad there are people out there like you who think meetings and project plans have anything to do with productivity and organization. I work for a company who's entire business is based around being nimble and trusting our employees to make educated decisions rather then having to bring everyone into a room to discuss it before moving forward.

      We choose our hires very carefully for this very reason, and don't hesitate to terminate someone who can't get it done. We are EXTREMELY productive and very organized but don't really on charts and powerpoint presentations. Frankly if we were more procedure driven, we couldn't do what we do.

      Everyone thinks that in order to bring stability to an IT organization you have to have process, and this might be true if you hire run of the mill low quality techs, but if you hire smart, you'd be amazed what you can get done when your employees can take ownership.

    9. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by google · · Score: 1

      Wait, I think I used to work there.... Do you know Fred?

      --
      "Thank you. Please spellcheck your genitalia references though. :) - Mike D."
    10. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Presently, I am consulting at a place that doesn't really HAVE a process
      Is this a "Web 2.0" shop? Because it sounds a lot like the places I heard about trying to crank out web apps back in the late 90s.

      I've worked with processes and without, and the best is...just having good competent developers and a manager who can both crack the whip to get things done and shield his team from the political BS. It's only happened a couple of times, but it was nice while it lasted.

      Interestingly, my last gig was with a "CMM level 5" organization, who turned out some of the worst code I've ever seen. They gathered requirements (which the client couldn't completely verify, due to language issues), then created their use cases, then their sequence diagrams, and then they proceeded to cut and paste existing code into EJBs. The result is totally unmaintainable (as they found out when they had to add a new requirement to an existing module), and largely non-performant. They were able to address the performance by splitting the app between two machines (one of the few nice things about EJBs), and since they're contractors, they won't have to address maintainability. So much for CMM level 5.

      The place where I work now is a total cowboy shop. No source code management, no process, no procedures, total anarchy. And it works pretty well. Pretty soon we'll have a source code management system in place, because *I* don't feel comfortable without one, and because when I told that to my boss he said "Go ahead and set one up". He also told me I could write a task-tracking database system in Ruby, which I'm looking forward to as I've never used Ruby before. But this all works because we all have pretty basic tasks (data comm and data conversion) with pretty well-defined deadlines and everybody's pretty competent. We don't miss deadlines and we don't screw around with new technology on customer-related tasks (unless it's unavoidable, like when we all sat down and learned SOA because we had to interface with a new system and that's the interface the vendor supported). I think it helps that the tasks are pretty discrete and tend to have short deadlines (two weeks to a month is typical).

      As always, having a good team is all the really matters. And that tends to be tough enough to assemble even over here, forget about it if half your developers are in another country and don't speak your language very well. I think it works with open source because OSS tends to attract people who are good at what they do and can deal with language and time zone issues, but I doubt you'll ever be able to assemble a decent team from a couple of senior developers and a lowest-bidder team from the outsourcer of the month.
      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    11. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I work, the whole place does NOTHING without Gartner telling them to do it. I sat in on a Gartner conference call to talk about AJAX. The Gartner guy on the phone talked in a monotone about AJAX for an hour... "Ajax applications get away from the page refresh mode of normal web applications. They contain javascript. As managers, you should worry about your developers putting javascript in your web applications. Users will typically like the extra usability they get from Ajax applications. The extra usability comes from the javascript.". And on, and on, and on. Everyone in the room sat there with heavy eyelids. Some looked like they were seconds away from throwing themselves out the window to the concrete below.

      I can't believe people actually pay for this stuff. Managers must be really fucking stupid.

    12. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by cosinezero · · Score: 1

      No. Sorry, but no.

      Unless your developers know every facet of every system, your approach is inherently flawed.

      Or you don't have complex systems.

    13. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by djrok212 · · Score: 1

      My developers do know every facet of our system, and although the problem is complex, we've been able to build a framework that makes the development process modular. See most systems are just basically flawed, stuffed with middleware and proprietary systems that require complex solutions to problems. People need to wake up and realize there are simple solutions to complex problems. Project Managers and the like are only required when you have people on your team who can't see past the end of their noses. Wake up, this is why coding is being outsourced to India. Those developers don't sit in meetings or write up project plans and the end result of their labor is some pretty damn good code. We like to feel important to we create meetings and projects plans so we can get credit and recognition of the things we do.

    14. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by rossifer · · Score: 1
      We are EXTREMELY productive and very organized but don't really on charts and powerpoint presentations.
      Right, but that doesn't mean your team doesn't have a process. You do have some ability to communicate reliable estimates to other people, you do have some ability to agree on the underlying hardware/OS that your system runs on, you do have some ability to make certain that before new code gets used by paying customers that it's of some acceptable quality.

      You just don't rely on a document called a "project plan" or all-hands meetings as the visible parts of your process.

      Those sorts of implicit-yet-effective processes tend to happen when there is a strong personality on the team who has some idea of how to get things done and everyone else goes along for the ride. That person is the one who announced one day that there's a team wiki, who is a bit of a nazi on code documentation, who's the one people think of when someone says "mentor". S/he may be an asshole, and s/he may not be the fastest developer on the team, but because they are strong-willed, and their methods work, the team actually has a process that works.

      I've seen and heard about it happening enough that I would be suprised if you don't have a similar situation with the team you're describing. The worst thing that can happen to that sort of a team is an externally imposed process that just adds red tape and interferes with getting things done without any perceivable benefit. People who've worked in better processes tend to get really annoyed with the clueless PHB's who need more process simply because they can't see any.

      you'd be amazed what you can get done when your employees can take ownership.
      The best processes leave ownership and responsibility right where they belong: with the producers. Don't disparage the word "process", as you have a process (or several processes) whether you know it or not. What matters is how effective your process(es) really are.

      (An aside: IMHO, efficiency is ultimately the enemy of effectiveness, and effectiveness is what's really needed in any significant endeavor).

      Regards,
      Ross
    15. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by djrok212 · · Score: 1

      Ross, You nailed it right on the head. In each of the "groups" in our organizations (IT, Dev, etc.) there are "leaders" who were hired specifically for their ability to make decision, experience, etc... So when I said we had no process, I really meant written processes. Thanks for helping me clarify exactly what I was try to say!

    16. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by cosinezero · · Score: 1


      The enterprise I develop for takes developers a good two years just to -begin- to understand some of the workflows and business logic. Simple solutions to complex problems? Not in anything larger than a boxed solution with a SOHO label. You can come on board almost any company with an in-house development shop knowing quoting, invoicing, accounting, CRM, ERP, inventory management, customer information systems, vendor interfaces, and still be a long way away from having any idea what the business logic actually is.

      Outsource to India? Businesses like the one I'm in (read: not even a billion dollar company) can't even communicate their requirements in house without specs that fill binders worth of information - and that's for developers that concievably can walk over to the employee who will be doing the actual work on the software and ask them about workflow and business rules. You can't outsource any real business with the methods you describe and expect to get 'pretty damned good code'. Without significant time researching requirements, dependencies, and the like you are blind.

      Take for example a construction company. A developer might work on a quoting system while another works on a vendor management system. Yet another might work on a set of tools to manage subcontractors. Let's assume for sake of argument that I can rattle off another twenty somewhat interdependant systems, each handled by a single developer (think CRM, ERP, the list goes on). Are you to honestly try to tell me that each developer would understand every facet of each of those systems, so that when dependencies arise, they just -know- what everyone is working on?

      Without communication, meetings, specifications... as you propose... I find that laughable, at best.

    17. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty soon we'll have a source code management system in place, because *I* don't feel comfortable without one, and because when I told that to my boss he said "Go ahead and set one up". He also told me I could write a task-tracking database system in Ruby, which I'm looking forward to as I've never used Ruby before.

      No, no, no! Use svn + trac. They are happy together and love each other very much!

      (Or bazaar-ng + trac if they have the plugin stable yet... :P )

    18. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by PHPfanboy · · Score: 1

      Hi, I work in sales.

      Which company are you working at and can you please send me the phone number of the CTO? I'd like to set up a meeting.

      Thanks :-)

      --
      29 mpg. YMMV.
    19. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by ARM_Coder · · Score: 1

      What about the worst of the two worlds? The company I work for is riddled with process consultants, document standards, an increasing number of reports, neverending meetings... yet the development team is understaffed and overworked, and projects are often late. Not to say that the bosses often feel free to utterly bypass the schedule to request "priority tasks", and refuse to cope with the ensuing delays in the planned projects.

      Some people seem to think that the presence of more managers (and bosses in general) can magically overcome any structural and endemic problem.

    20. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by d3cr33p · · Score: 1

      But the biggest problem with code re-use is the human resources element, they caution. Hoyle pointed out that programmers are likely to say, "I can write you some of that. Reuse is for sissies. I'm a better programmer than they are."


      This is just simply a poisoning of the well. Most of the time I have seen this when programmers aren't busy enough with other things. I have known a few workaholics, usually very young, who will simply keep taking on projects even though there is no way they will ever get them done. There simply is not enough hours in a day. But most I have met are more then willing to use 3rd party components when their schedule is already topped off and they are being realistic about meeting their goals. They are very unlikely to refuse a leg up.

      That said, the last thing a programmer wants to do is implement a 3rd party component that he knows won't work with out a lot of additional work only to get blamed when the thing fails to do what management was told it would do from the provider. If a developer knows he can do a better job and have the confidence it is going to work right and it is most likely going to take about the same amount of time as "plugging in" a 3rd party solution, then he is right to offer his services.

      To categorically state that programmers are "likely" to want to code from scratch for purely selfish reasons, however, only prejudices upper management against any protest the programmer might have regardless of its validity.

    21. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by djrok212 · · Score: 1

      You find it laughable because your not smart enough to comprehend it any other way. Think outside the box. Your solution requires ridiculous amounts of overhead which doesn't contribute to the bottom line. When you hire every Joe Schmoe developer that walks in the door, then maybe you need to explain things over and over, have meetings, write specs, etc. But when you hire the best of the best, people who are smart, those things are unnecessary. Shane

    22. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by cosinezero · · Score: 1

      When you add the word "enterprise" to your resume, look me up. "Your" clearly not in my league if you think that specifications are unnecessary. Overhead from meetings is drastically smaller than the overhead of constant rewrites because developer X doesn't understand the constraints of application Y, or the learning curve for new developer Z to figure out your undocumented, un-spec'd applications.

    23. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by Bob-taro · · Score: 1
      While I admit that sometimes the process does get in the way, the fact is there is a good reason for 'process'.
      IMHO every company has a process - good or bad, consistent or inconsistent. It sounds like your company has a consistently bad process. IT people aren't really anti-process. Heck, for a programmer process is what we do! We know process can be good or bad, but to management process is sometimes an end in itself (e.g. ISO 9000, six sigma), or just plain poorly understood. The best approach to process I've seen is where the lower level managers and employees are allowed input. And different groups can have different processes. A big company trying to be consistent in everything across the whole organization looks good on paper, but I've never seen it work out well.
      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    24. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1
      Everyone thinks that in order to bring stability to an IT organization you have to have process, and this might be true if you hire run of the mill low quality techs, but if you hire smart, you'd be amazed what you can get done when your employees can take ownership.

      If you have an IT staff of 10, you can get away with this. If you have an organization that has over 400 IT employees; a non-IT it staff that is close to 50,000 people; are running nearly 900 applications on everything from Windows to Mainframe to AS/400 OS to seven different flavors of UNIX; and have are managing about 500TB of storage; then you can't get away with what you are describing for very long.

      From your series of posts, it sounds like you are a smaller organization. If I am wrong, and you happend to have a couple of hundred IT employees, you need to look into ITIL. Otherwise, it is only a matter of time before you run into serious problems with your production environment.

    25. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by djrok212 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to stop this here before it gets out of hand, but you are a prime example of why development will become a commodity and bid out to the lowest priced outsource shop. You think you know more about how to do it then anyone else, and think things only work and are good if they are bulky and procedurized. I have worked for your "Enterprise" and I can tell you that when put head to head against a small nimble group, the "Enterprise" always loses. Worked for a small but successful financial firm that was purchased by a large formerly successful financial firm. The big firm bought the little firm because we had eaten their lunch with 10% of the people and overhead. During integration, the employees from the "bigger" firm thought we were stupid, and didn't know how to run a business, because we could come to a meeting and leave with decisions already having been made, opposed to the large firm, where they scheduled meetings to discuss the previous meetings before making a decision. Long story short, 4 years later, almost all the employees of the "larger" firm are gone, and most of the employees of the "smaller" firm are senior management.

    26. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1

      Your story reminds me of the old joke: What do you get when you merge Tivoli and IBM?


      IBM.

    27. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by cosinezero · · Score: 1

      Hey, good luck with the outsourcing. My company tried china, india, and local shops. All were varying degrees of misery. I'm not preaching for beauracracy... nor against 'small, nimble groups', but if you think that you can write business systems that have any dependencies without tangible communication efforts, you don't even understand enough about 'overhead' to preach against it. Overhead includes rewrites, includes support, troubleshooting, and other development time after delivery. Again, I question your experience with complex systems. A few developers may be able to develop lots of complex systems, no doubt, but what happens when one quits? What happens when you need more man-hours? By your methods or mine, development still takes man-hours, and the more developers you have to throw at a problem, the need for documented specs increases.

    28. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by v01d · · Score: 1

      The thing is, that even with very good specs no one person can understand a complex enough system. I develop for a trillion dollar company (nope not many of them) and the teams that get things done have very little overhead. In fact specs frequently only get created when needed, not before.

      Each developer only needs to understand their small part, any attempt to do otherwise is going to be painful.

    29. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by jafac · · Score: 1

      I work in a place with almost the most rigorous processes you could imagine. I think the guys who write avionics software are the only ones who are more rigorous. And we, also, are in constant rush-mode. I don't think that has anything to do with process. I think it has to do with when the organization is tasked, scheduled and run exclusively by business-types, as opposed to engineers, who have some notion of how long things take.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    30. Re:Gartner tells my boss whatever anyone pays em 2 by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1
      I think it has to do with when the organization is tasked, scheduled and run exclusively by business-types, as opposed to engineers, who have some notion of how long things take.

      Note that I am not saying that engineers shouldn't be involved in sheduling. The PMs need to ask the engineers what each task is and then have the engineers give a timeline on completing said tasks. If the PM's are creating project plans without the input of the folks that are supposed to do the task, then those project plans are not very useful.

      But, after the engineers help fill out the plan, then they need to be held to the timelines they agreed to in the project plan. Weekly meetings to review the status are required. If there is a delay, then someone needs to explain why. It may not be the fault of the team. And, anyway, the point is not to blame someone for delays, but to PLAN, so risks can be identified and mitigated early in the project.

  2. A little more context... by Lord+Grey · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the original post:
    ... Gartner urges managers to consider better process control and governance, managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios. Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'"
    From TFA:
    Another management function that Hoyle suggested is to kill development projects early, "and often," he said, "if your failure rate is high." You can improve productivity by 20%, Hoyle advised, "by killing projects when you should: which is early in the lifecycle." For example, a project that has had three baseline adjustments because of scope creep is already in trouble.
    Let's hope that the managers who "belong to the Silver Bullet of the Month Club" read the entire article rather than just the /. headlines.
    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
    1. Re:A little more context... by Jim+Hall · · Score: 2, Funny

      For example, a project that has had three baseline adjustments because of scope creep is already in trouble.

      For example: Duke Nukem Forever

      Sorry ... too obvious, had to do it. :-)

    2. Re:A little more context... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, let's hope that managers who attended the conference (and /.ers that didn't attend) don't misinterpret the gist of what the conference is/was about. I am a Technical Architect who attended the Application Development Summit with a few of my geek colleagues.

      It was obvious during the conference that the average middle manager really did not understand OSS. During one presentation, the presenter walked through the likely way that an organization would go about choosing a Web 2.0 library. The first thing he ruled out was OSS. I doubt most managers understood that he was showing the ridiculousness of such a move since most of them have exactly what you need.

      During another presentation about security, the presenter recommended that OSS tools be used for vulnerability detection. Someone in the audience asked "Why should they trust something that was is so open? Haven't the hackers already broken it?" The presenter responded very quickly by saying, "The hackers are going to be using those OSS tools to break in. Why wouldn't you preempt the attack by using those same tools to detect the problems before deployment? Plus, they're free!"

      The final keynote by Don Topscott seemed to hit the majority of attendees like a loud wake up call.....YOU MUST CHANGE or some group of young geeks is going to take away your customers. The best way to do this is to OPEN up. Share your core knowledge (goldcorp), open up your APIs and services (google), open source your applications. The landscape is changing and if you don't you will die.

  3. Gawds... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gartner urges managers to consider better process control and governance, managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios. Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'"

    Whatever they're smoking, it's worse than paraquat.

    While about 1/3 apps I program are sort of cookie-cutter, a routine from here, a routine from there and a little glue, most are completely from scratch and have never been done before. The nature of things is change and change dictates writing new apps which handed data differently and produces information in a different light each time.

    These people are analysts and don't know this???

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Gawds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read the article you would know that they do know this, and more. Apparently you don't know not to trust slashdot summaries though.

    2. Re:Gawds... by erikdotla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Man, Gartner must hate Perl.

      I've re-written the same applications dozens of times, sometimes because my code is unreadable, sometimes just for fun to find a new way to do it, and occasionally because it's so easy that it's actually faster than spending 2 minutes finding the previous version. Gotta keep my mind fresh, I'm over 30 you know.

      Though.. I suppose if I could call my Perl application portfolio manager and ask them where that 10 line text parser is that I wrote yesterday, and they could provide it right away, it would save me 2 minutes of searching my own hard disk. Of course, since the portfolio manager can't understand what the app does unless I spend 15 minutes writing documentation and explaining it to them, I get a net loss of productivity anyway.

      --
      # Erik
    3. Re:Gawds... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've re-written the same applications dozens of times, sometimes because my code is unreadable, sometimes just for fun to find a new way to do it, and occasionally because it's so easy that it's actually faster than spending 2 minutes finding the previous version. Gotta keep my mind fresh, I'm over 30 you know.

      Typically when I've re-written an app it is because it has been modified so much from its origninal form it is unable to accomodate a new option and/or has become fragile. There are chunks of code you can reuse and if you've worked in the same job long enough you know where to find them.

      The concept of Code Portfolios is rather humourous in that you could easily, as you say, spend a lot of time documenting it only to replace it the next time. We kept a compendium at one of my past employers, but it fell out of date rapidly unless it was some tiny piece of code which was highly specialised and rarely changed. (Typically these were the routines which required extreme care when changing as they were widely used.)

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:Gawds... by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      If you read the article you would know that they do know this, and more. Apparently you don't know not to trust slashdot summaries though.

      And slashdot gets so worked up about doctored photos....

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:Gawds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if they knew anything, they wouldn't be analysts.

    6. Re:Gawds... by gutnor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it takes you 2 min to develop the application, I guess that's not the same kind of application Gartner has in mind. The smallest application I worked on was about 120 Man-Days development (not including QA, Analysis and "corporate crap overhead"). Even if you can code 10 times faster than me, that's still 2 week worth of work and that's not something you just want to throw out the window. ( and even if you have time to kill, you would not want to go through QA, TAT, UAT, xxT, xxT2, ... without a good reason )

      What gartner has in mind is telling the manager what they already believe. Several year ago it was so fashion to rewrite an application from scratch. As a manager, saying that you were reusing something made you look so old school, not a true dot-com mentality. Nowadays you must sacrifice a chicken to get some hope of having the budget to look at the code.
      Look at the buzzword friendly tech in the development world, like SOA and Co, this is all about flow management, gluing application together, ...

      I don't know what gartner is for. Basically whatever is the tendency of the day, they just acknowledge that the right way to go.

    7. Re:Gawds... by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

      I've re-written the same applications dozens of times, sometimes because my code is unreadable, sometimes just for fun to find a new way to do it, and occasionally because it's so easy that it's actually faster than spending 2 minutes finding the previous version.

            This would only be considered Score 4, Informative on /. Anywhere else it would be considered Score -4, Idiotic.

        rd

    8. Re:Gawds... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Esther Schindler's analysis has but one trivial flaw, that software design is at a static peak; It is not. Each business is different, that applies to same industries, same governments, and same product. As long as businesses are dynamic, software design will always be a camp follower. As for the dynamics of design change being a red-flag warning, I have had several projects succeed, even though the end result was a moving target. For me, success has equated to designing, and programming for impending change.

    9. Re:Gawds... by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 1

      In my shop, our weakest bits are our third party components. However, we would not be as far along as we are without these components. This is also nothing new. Components have been around for a long, long time. The first place where components took off was GUI. When's the last time you wrote a message pump? Books like Better, Faster, Lighter Java and the push towards SOA are all about reusable components. The move now is to componentize the business tier. BPEL and YAWL are technologies that attempt to make it easy to publish and consume business process components. Assembling components is about build versus buy and accelerating schedules and it is also about reducing complexity (reducing maintenance costs) because good component based development (whether yours or someone elses) reduces coupling.

  4. Bits & pieces by fenodyree · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would you ever assemble wisdom and business savvy when it's simpler and easier to assemble random quotes & concepts from popular seminars and "Best Seller" managerial books.

    1. Re:Bits & pieces by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would you ever assemble wisdom and business savvy when it's simpler and easier to assemble random quotes & concepts from popular seminars and "Best Seller" managerial books.

      You have to keep in mind, there's an industry which keeps inself employed by selling seminars and books. If everyone got all the right answers the first time, what would these people do?

      Going out of business sale, nostrums 50% off!

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  5. its in the glue or its in the code by Phantom+of+the+Opera · · Score: 1

    So, programmers have a choice between writing glue layers between different general applications, or writing a specialized application from scratch? Writing glue layers is not necessarily easier or less time consuming.

    The best solutions to specific problems are going to be custom made, at least for a while.

    1. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's an outsourcing thing. You can usually get away with offshoring glue code, but not major component work.

      Gartner is just trying to justify offshoring and make $$ by telling MBAs what they already believe.

    2. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by EFGearman · · Score: 1

      Especially when the applications that you are gluing together change and all of a sudden you're using the wrong brand of glue.

      --
      Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
    3. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The best solutions to specific problems are going to be custom made, at least for a while.

      Yeah, but sometimes you have to gird yourself for those days when the sheep come home from being fleeced at the latest management fad sheering.

      I vividly remember the epic battles that took place when managers returned from TQM (Total Quality Management) training. The all had these purposeful looks of the new acolyte and a Franklin Planner under their arm. They cooked up Vision and Mission statements and tried to get everyone on the bandwagon. It was a trying time because most of the way we already did things were obviously the most efficient. Work under the gun a lot and you tend to find the shortcuts yourself. If anything we became less efficient until the whole clamour died away and most of us returned to getting it done the proper way.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      Work under the gun a lot and you tend to find the shortcuts yourself.

      While it may be true you come up with a lot of ideas this way. Quite often you never get time to implement the more ambitious ones... (Or at least it can take a long time before they get into mainstream use.)

    5. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by chris_eineke · · Score: 1
      You can usually get away with offshoring glue code
      Why would you create two clean modules only to have it fucked up by someone who doesn't know squat about them?
      --
      "All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
    6. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely I agree. I work in software maintenance and the biggest headaches come from those applications which are stitched together from prefab components. J2EEK! With those applications we spend more time tinkering with configuration and upgrading to libraries that have no respect for legacy API than we do with modifying those applications to changing business requirements. And our clients are beginning to understand that and to protest the decisions of their information systems management who, it is apparent, read too many brochures and not enough code.

      Usually a simple and direct custom solution has greater stability and longevity than one that depends on components with multiple dependencies and arcane configuration.

    7. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by secolactico · · Score: 1

      Why would you create two clean modules only to have it fucked up by someone who doesn't know squat about them?

      To save money at the expense of quality/reliability. Duh.

      --
      No sig
    8. Re:its in the glue or its in the code by quanticle · · Score: 1

      Because you wouldn't be making the clean modules. Your company would be purchasing the modules, and then offshoring the "glue programming" for cost savings at the cost of reliability, as suggested by the sibling post.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  6. Of course that's what Gartner is saying . . . by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 1

    . . . 'cuz Gartner gets paid by the "component" / middleware / toolkit / etc. vendors to say that.

    1. Re:Of course that's what Gartner is saying . . . by Angostura · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, the savvy OSS officiando will explain to management that this is exactly what they are striving for: "WE only write new code where strictly necessary ... most of this project is utilizing reusable components generated by the open source community..." etc.

    2. Re:Of course that's what Gartner is saying . . . by egregious+hack · · Score: 1
      In my limited experience with Gartner -- hearing the grackles (product marketing folk) speak about Gartner and how/when they use them -- they are paid fees by firms pushing this or that "message" to makes sales, create buzz, blah, blah...

      So, who signs up for this conference? Managers from mostly large (IBM, HP, etc.) firms or random managers from small shops or even a startup? AFAIK, Gartner talks mostly about product in review, not its development process.

      If it's already known up front that this is paid-for messaging, then the kool-aid sippers are already fools. The article's "Your Boss" reference sounds like a limited audience.

  7. I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by mollog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, really. I worry about the junk that comes out of Gartner. Like the outsourcing binge. Where I work, they have tried several ways to outsource (overseas) our work. Gartner was flogging this heavily and it seemed to become 'cause celeb'. The word we got from our managers was that it wasn't going to be allowed to fail. I'm pretty sure some people's careers would be damaged if it did, so they're going to continue to push it regardless of the results. This sort of 'tell us what to think' mentality is not going to help corporate amerika.

    Please, someone tell Gartner Group to be a little less certain about their predictions. The mass of middle managers are afraid to do think anything that isn't supported by someone like Gartner.

    --
    Best regards.
    1. Re:I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by griffjon · · Score: 1

      They have to sound completely certain, that's their business. Luckily, there's not yet a providor of Analyst-analysis. Man, I'd love to see Gartner's hit-rate from say 99-01 in market predictions ;)

      --
      Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
    2. Re:I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      Companies that think like this (and there are a lot of them) are doomed in the long term. Nothing innovative or truly successful can be produced in this kind of environment and soon their competitors will be doing the same thing for less. What will they fall back on then?

    3. Re:I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by p!ssa · · Score: 1

      Lawyers, draconian and vague technology laws (DCMA etc.), monopoly power for "consumer choice" and bogus patents. They already realized they were doomed and have adapted quite well.

    4. Re:I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      The mass of middle managers are afraid to do think anything that isn't supported by someone like Gartner.

      That way they'll have someone to blame when they are wrong.

      Lying rat fuck asscracks.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    5. Re:I worry about what gartner is telling my boss by FatMacDaddy · · Score: 1
      Gartner will never be less certain about their predictions. Instead, they'll just make more predictions than ever in the hopes that no one notices how many of them are completely wrong because Gartner will be loudly touting the one they got right.

      Somewhere around here I've still got Gartner's insightful analysis stating that nearly one-third of American companies will fail due to Y2K problems. I think that was around 1997 or so.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
  8. A little more self-control... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot has managers?

  9. Old ideas and old promises by Frans+Faase · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just like AI has been promissing us real AI for many decades, the idea of producing information systems by combining building blocks still has not become a reality yet. The whole SOA hype is just one of the many "build systems from components" hypes. My experience with building information systems by combining separate applications (and that is how most informations systems are build in practice) is that these systems often crumble to pieces due to mismatching data models. I sometimes get the idea that data modeling is one of least used methods for building information systems. I wonder why.

    1. Re:Old ideas and old promises by EFGearman · · Score: 1

      Probably because it takes a lot of time, takes the right people to do it, usually requires numerous meetings to make sure that the data model is correct, someone in charge with the authority to keep the model lean, yet correct, and the money to see it all happen. And on top of that you've got to keep the sales/marketing guys from adding features before the basic model is done.

      --
      Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
    2. Re:Old ideas and old promises by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Informative

      I sometimes get the idea that data modeling is one of least used methods for building information systems. I wonder why.

      I absolutely agree. Data modeling is one of the most fundamental skills out there, but time and again I encounter apps with just an absolutely atrocious data model. Much more time needs to be devoted in school to the fundamentals of data modeling and the why behind data modeling best practices. Think about it -- in a "classic" MVC stack, the controller and GUI are often interchangeable, but if you're stuck with a poor way to persist data, the rest of the app *will* be quite limited no matter what you're using for business logic and / or presentation. Furthermore, none of these "component" vendors will help you . . . you'll just end up with a turd wrapped in Company X's duct tape.

    3. Re:Old ideas and old promises by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1
      Much more time needs to be devoted in school to the fundamentals of data modeling and the why behind data modeling best practices.
      You can say that again. People wonder why I get all twitchy when I have to review code that makes the data model an echo of the object model (because it's trivial to annotate your base class so the tables get created automatically at deployment time). And why I won't help them when they have performance issues ("But I thought you knew about database performance!" "I do, and this isn't it."). Back when I was in college RDBMSes were still pretty new, so we didn't have any data modeling classes (we still thought ISAM was pretty cool), hopefully they do now. A little discrete math and relational algebra wouldn't be out of place either. I don't see XML-based object databases taking over the world any time soon, better learn to use the tools you have.
      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    4. Re:Old ideas and old promises by Faylone · · Score: 1

      Hey! Some WD-40, and some duct tape, and even a turd can be great!

    5. Re:Old ideas and old promises by Jamie+Lokier · · Score: 1

      To be honest I'm working on a project where the data model is rather messy, and I designed it. But there is no _obvious_ right way to model it which fits with the ways we need to be able to access the data (there are real-time and distributed and offline aspects which mean we can't just use an RDB and standard normalisations).

      Figuring out a good way forward would involve a couple of months break in visible features... and right now (as of a while), it's the features that are in constant demand. We're effectively writing a number of applications for different customers simultaneously, with most of the code in common, while we figure out what to do with insufficient resources to do the job 'properly'.

      I suspect it's a common scenario.

      And to be honest, we are servicing the business's short term needs quite well.

      But I have to admit, the data model has plenty of room for improvement.

      *rushes off to mock up a customer-specific feature...*

    6. Re:Old ideas and old promises by kpharmer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > I suspect it's a common scenario.

      Yep - data modeling is now out of vogue, and so it is mostly done by programmers.

      Unfortunately, programmers are seldom good data modelers (if only because they seldom take the time to really learn the discipline). You can take a look at some of the very good books on data modeling patterns (I recommend the one by David Hays).

      But there's no substitute for experience when you get into a tight spot - knowing when to break the old rules and use something like:
          - a star or snowflake schema
          - a hierarchy or network
          - dynamic attributes
          - materialized query tables
          - triggers
          - etc
      all takes experience and knowledge. One thing that I often do when in a spot like yours - is to define a good object model at least - then use that as the basis for persistence apis. These apis can be stored procedures (best case) or views (worst case). Then (assuming you have a dba that will be owning this code) the dba is free to remap that api layer to the physical tables. Change is inevitable, but at least this way you've got one role that has access to all the code that needs to change, and hopefully your api interfaces will encapsulate the code well.

      Unfortunately, stored procedure use is on the decline. But as long as you take a cautious approach with them they're not a bad thing.

    7. Re:Old ideas and old promises by GalacticCmdr · · Score: 1

      That all depends on your POV. If you are a back-end guy - then data modelling is the most critical component. If you are a front-end guy then the GUI and Controllers are the most important. In a "classic" MVC stack the model is interchangeable as well - otherwise it is not really a "classic" MVC stack. Instead it is some MVC stack as seen from a data-guy.

      --
      Programming: Its not just a job - its an indenture.
    8. Re:Old ideas and old promises by Jamie+Lokier · · Score: 1

      The thing is, we have a highly distributed database, the network is not constantly available, and updates (within constraints) may happen simultaneously at different places in the network and be reconciled later. And most of the nodes run on small embedded systems, while some nodes are large, centralised severs.

      So many of the concepts you suggest are probably quite relevant theory, but we can't work using the common database implementations.

      I'm not so concerned with how it's "mapped to physical tables". I regard that, since we're not using standard database engines, as storage and indexing optimisation. Important, but it's not really modelling.

      I would like to read more about the things you mention, especially data modelling as a discipline, and the things you listed: "dynamic attributes", "snowflake schema" etc. Suggest any other good books?

      Cheers,
      -- Jamie

    9. Re:Old ideas and old promises by kpharmer · · Score: 1

      > The thing is, we have a highly distributed database, the network is not constantly available, and updates (within constraints)
      > may happen simultaneously at different places in the network and be reconciled later. And most of the nodes run on small
      > embedded systems, while some nodes are large, centralised severs.

      sounds like a good problem :-)

      There are some database combinations that might work - db2, for instance, has a little brother product that runs on palmtops and is sometimes used for configurations like this. But the asynchronous updates are a challenge - especially if they are bidirectional. If not, then an ETL approach might work for you - it's like batch replication.

      > I would like to read more about the things you mention, especially data modelling as a discipline, and the
      > things you listed: "dynamic attributes", "snowflake schema" etc. Suggest any other good books?

      Off the top of my head I can't recommend a general book on data modeling. Ralph Kimball has the Data Warehouse Toolkit - which covers data modeling for reporting databases extremely well. David C. Hays has Data Modeling patterns - which covers reusable models the best. The Data Model Resource Book by Len Silverston isn't bad either. These reusable model books might be a useful complement to a book on theory.

      Note that once you leave strict relational modeling then you get into unofficial terminology. So, David Hays refers to the "universal modeling pattern" in which you have a generic entity, a relationship type entity and two many-to-many relationships between them. This allows you to support multiple hierarchies, networks, and other relationships - for example in describing organizations and people. Very, very flexible approach. But there is no single common term for this technique. Likewise, when I mention dynamic attributes I'm referring the technique of storing attributes as key-value pair strings along with some metadata (type, length, etc). This is very useful when your data requirements change too quickly to make modeling changes and updates. But again, no common terminology here either.

      Good luck

    10. Re:Old ideas and old promises by rickwood · · Score: 1

      It's like I always say, to the point that my friends call it "Rickwood's Second Law of Computing": "If the data model is correct, all things are possible." I learned that on my first "real" programming job. It's fundamental to building database applications. Even so, I'm constantly mystified by the data model choices people make.

      For example, I do a lot of work with a mid-range ERP. This crapplication suite is written in COBOL. There are comments in the code from the Seventies. They claim to be "database independent." By which they mean that can treat any RDBMS available in the market as COBOL flat files. No primary keys. No foreign keys. Flat files. Really. All the join logic is implemented in the COBOL code, so figuring out which tables can join with which is lots of fun. On the other hand, once you've divined the secrets of the tables you rarely lack for work, even if it is just genning up SELECT statements into reports in Perl.

      Won't somebody please, please think of the database?

  10. And so it goes ... by Greymoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those who can, do. Those who can't, analyze.

    1. Re:And so it goes ... by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1
      It's funny - an alert popped up on my IDS the other day saying "Gartner is dead".

      (for those who don't get it)

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  11. show Gartner what it's worth by User+956 · · Score: 1

    Gartner urges managers to consider better process control and governance, managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios. Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'

    Excellent. I hope some PHB at a Software company takes this advice and runs with it. The resulting fiasco should be great for Gartner's reputation.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:show Gartner what it's worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That'd be nice, but what would probably happen is the software company eventually goes bankrupt, the PHB get blamed for it but somehow gets a higher paying job at another company anyway, and nobody but a couple of trolls on Slashdot notice the Gartner connection.

  12. Your boss is just an object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Remember.. your CEO is just business object--- I set of components and business logic. His job responsibilities are just more components.

    Any of these business objects can be swapped out and replaced willy-nilly as you see fit. If the CEO has too much work on his hands, you can simply run a process scanner against his position-- the process scanner will highlight the areas for improvement. Then you hire a new person and assign some of the objects to him.

    Heck? Want to replace the boss? Fire him and hire a new object to assume the responsibilities. The transition is seemless.

    Don't forget that you paid some consultants $1 million for this study, and these are the conclusions.

    ---

    Look-- looking at things as components is a useful exercise for modelling. It's an easier way to get a "big picture" perspective without getting mirred in the details.

    But it will only get you so far, because DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS. Anbody who believes in such object-oriented drivel is certain to go out of business. Trouble is, the CEOs who promote this crap can jump from ship to ship-- not all of us can do that.

    1. Re:Your boss is just an object by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Trouble is, the CEOs who promote this crap can jump from ship to ship-- not all of us can do that.

      Seriously. Over the years I've worked in software, networks, and publishing, and I've never had the pleasure of working under any person for longer than about a year. Invariably when I've been hired, I've had the feeling that my new boss wasn't quite on top of things.

      But on top of things or not, sure enough, within a couple of months of my being hired there's always an announcement that congratulations are in order because boss will be leaving us for much bigger and better things, or has been promoted to a new and more ridiculous level of abstraction within the organization. Then there's a party and some cake and silly goodbyes.

      Then, the new guy comes in. He's always groomed, young-middle-age-ish, clearly an MBA or someone who's read a few too many business books and has been wearing a tie since he was four. He wrings his hands a lot and speaks in a worried-measured-reassuring tone and holds "orientation interviews" (or some variation thereon) with everyone during which he asks a lot of dumb, general, or both questions and says that he'll appreciate help in getting up to speed and he's really excited to have the opportunity to work with everyone.

      Within the first two-three months, he'll fuck everything up, miss a pile of obligations or responsibilities, implement a whole slew of unworkable programs, misrepresent nearly everything we're doing in meetings with upper management, and then after a few months, just as everyone gets the feeling that he might finally be having to face the realities of the business, pull his head out of his ass, learn and scale back a little, and roll back some of the stupid changes he made, there will be an announcement... and a goodbye party...

      And in will come a new guy, pick up all the old guy's stuff that wasn't quite working anyway, and soon there will be the meetings again... and the initiatives and changes again...

      Wash, rinse, repeat as these jackasses earn six figures and get promoted up, up, and away in their beautiful balloons while the people at the bottom do the real work *in spite of* their idiotic tie-speak, with nary a reward year over year.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    2. Re:Your boss is just an object by danpat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Green with envy?

      Complain as much as you'd like, but if your measure of success is place in the hierarchy and size of paycheck, then these guys are better at the game than you. You may not like it, but life's like that. It's kind of like complaining when you lose at a game of poker because your style of play calls for putting your cards face-up on the table.

      While it'd be nice if promotion and salary were neatly tied to ability and achievements, that ain't the case. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending the rules are something they're not is just going to make you bitter and twi....oh wait, you already are.

      You either need start playing by their rules in order to compete with them, or stop thinking of yourself as "the bottom doing real work". Pretend you're at the top, and they're all moving sideways under you. Does that make you feel better?

    3. Re:Your boss is just an object by aussersterne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're assuming that I want to get paid more. Not true. I think they should be paid less. The game is what's broken; people shouldn't be rewarded for doing harm. And nobody should earn a salary more than 150k or so, no matter what.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    4. Re:Your boss is just an object by danpat · · Score: 1

      Now you're in denial. Unfortunately, we're all stuck in the same universe together, we can't just up and leave when we don't like the way things work. In the real world, there are two ways to get rewarded: 1 - do something worth being rewarded for; or 2 - convince others that you should be rewarded (without actually doing anything). They're both valid ways to get rewards. Because doing things worth being rewarded for is actually difficult, you can often get better rewards and more often, simply by talking people into giving them to you, rather than doing any real work.

      You're going to have to either ignore it, or play it. No-body is making the rules up, that's just the way the universe works.

    5. Re:Your boss is just an object by aussersterne · · Score: 1

      Or, I can post to Slashdot in the meantime as a way of venting frustration in agreement with an earlier poster

      -and-

      work to change the system. You're wrong about the universe, by the way, this is merely the way capitalism works.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    6. Re:Your boss is just an object by xeno-cat · · Score: 1

      "You're wrong about the universe, by the way, this is merely the way capitalism works."

      You've bumped into one of the many fatalistic wankers in the world. They spend their time and energy trying to convince everyone that the Universe is static, has always been static and will continue to be static.

      You need to actually put the alternative in front of them. They eventually come around.

      Kind Regards

      --
      "A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
    7. Re:Your boss is just an object by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      then these guys are better at the game than you.

      Better liars. Better cheats. Better rat fucks.

      You may not like it, but life's like that.

      No it isn't. The unwiped ass of the workplace is like that. Life is entirely different.

      While it'd be nice if promotion and salary were neatly tied to ability and achievements, that ain't the case.

      Used to be. But see, that was back when we could actually build something. That was back when we weren't destroying people's educations and careers. Middle managers produce nothing except carbon dioxide and methane. They are utterly incompetent, repulsive, hateful people who take great delight in draining every last molecule of joy and goodness from the world in order to stuff their own pockets with everyone else's paychecks.

      You either need start playing by their rules in order to compete with them, or stop thinking of yourself as "the bottom doing real work".

      In other words, everyone should stop doing real work in order to "compete" with some salad-bar-ordering fuck? Not likely, chunky.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    8. Re:Your boss is just an object by cubicledrone · · Score: 0, Troll

      In the real world, there are two ways to get rewarded

      1 - Do real work
      2 - Lie

      Because doing things worth being rewarded for is actually difficult, you can often get better rewards and more often, simply by talking people into giving them to you, rather than doing any real work.

      And in the process become a phone-flipping lying rat fuck ass-molded hairpiece. Congratulations.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    9. Re:Your boss is just an object by SpikeSpiff · · Score: 1

      Michael Jordan was worth more than a 150K salary.

      --
      "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
    10. Re:Your boss is just an object by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      Amen brother! You are right on target.

      Is what you're saying good? Is it fair??? Irrelevant.

      It is what it is. I take the route of being pragmatic and dealing with it. And I'd like to think taking the high road and actually doing hard work (and a little advertising of said work) pays off in the end.

      Eventually these "phone-flipping lying rat fuck ass-molded hairpieces" end up hosing things so badly (because they don't know what they're doing) they get booted out anyway.

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    11. Re:Your boss is just an object by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, for someone who devoted his entire life to playing a child's game, he did do it very well, and very entertainingly. But what did he do that was worth the hundreds of millions of dollars he was paid over his life?

      The simple answer: make buckets of money for people who could afford to pay him that well. Oh, yeah, and star in 'Space Jam.' Cinematic masterpiece, that.

      Sorry, but while selling sweatshop shoes at absurd premiums may make certain people very wealthy, it does nothing to advance the human condition.

      I'd delve into detail, but if you're too lazy to explain why Michael Jordan was worth more than 150K a year, I'm not going to put much effort into disabusing you.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    12. Re:Your boss is just an object by computational+super · · Score: 1
      You either need start playing by their rules in order to compete with them

      Good to hear you're busy creating the next Enron.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    13. Re:Your boss is just an object by RollingThunder · · Score: 1

      The problem with the rules is that these people set their own salaries. Well, not literally their own, but birds of a feather are setting salaries for each other. Of course they scratch each other's backs while not recognizing the work that is done in jobs they've never held.

    14. Re:Your boss is just an object by khallow · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but while selling sweatshop shoes at absurd premiums may make certain people very wealthy, it does nothing to advance the human condition.

      Nike, for example, employs thousands of people who choose to work at Nike over anywhere else. The "human condition" of those people has been advanced quite a bit especially in those third world sweatshops. Also, you ignore sports fans. Their quality of life has been improved by Michael Jordan as well.

      I'd delve into detail, but if you're too lazy to explain why Michael Jordan was worth more than 150K a year, I'm not going to put much effort into disabusing you.

      You already answered the question. He made lots of money for other people and provided quality entertainment for millions.
    15. Re:Your boss is just an object by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but just because a person would prefer working in a Nike sweatshop to starving to death, that's hardly a reason to say that those sweatshops 'advance the human condition.' Sweatshops aren't just about manual labor. They're about working people to the breaking point and beyond, limiting their freedoms, forbidding them from unionizing or fighting for better wages and conditions. They're about governments looking the other way, or even assisting in the oppression of their own people, because somebody is getting bribed or because somebody realizes that the moment they ask for a few pennies more the factories will pack up and move to Zimbabwe (or wherever else people are poor and desperate enough to break their backs for a dollar a day to build us luxury goods). I ask again, how does this advance the human condition?

      Nor do I see how making tons of money for people who already have ungodly sums advances the human condition. What jobs did Michael Jordan's basketballing create? Sweatshop jobs for making shoes and jerseys, crap retail jobs taking tickets and selling clothes. A relative handful of jobs that could actually support a family, with most of those being team managers and personal trainers. Michael Jordan was worth billions to the team owners, tens of millions to broadcasters and advertisers, but we're asking how his basketballing feats were helpful to society as a whole?

      Using him, Nike was able to convince lots of kids that their shoes were worth paying a huge premium for, based on no objective measure of quality but on the sort of prestige that can only come from having a beloved celebrity endorse one's wares. I don't see the social benefit in turning mere foot protection into a huge expense for families, or a huge feeling of inadequacy for kids whose parents couldn't afford them. The only value in having Nike shoes was in that they were something that some kids had and other kids didn't. Economists call this 'conspicuous consumption,' which in my mind has negative social value. But I can see how it would make Nike rich, and since you seem to cling to the delusion that the free market always gives everyone what they really want, you would likely call it good.

      Which brings us to the final argument, the "quality entertainment for millions." Admittedly, I'm biased because I don't care much for sports. But I also have an axe to grind against mass consumption culture (as opposed to participatory culture), especially when someone is making money turning millions of people into mere spectators of their culture, rather than participants. It's not healthy for so many of us to be so used to sitting on our asses and letting other people be creative on our behalves (behalfs?)

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    16. Re:Your boss is just an object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Green with envy?

      Wannabe amateur shrink?



      Complain as much as you'd like, but if your measure of success is place in the hierarchy and size of paycheck, then these guys are better at the game than you. You may not like it, but life's like that. It's kind of like complaining when you lose at a game of poker because your style of play calls for putting your cards face-up on the table.

      Smug son of a bitch. What makes you think you're such a fucking wordsmith?

      While it'd be nice if promotion and salary were neatly tied to ability and achievements, that ain't the case. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending the rules are something they're not is just going to make you bitter and twi....oh wait, you already are.

      More horseshit from the wannabe shrink and putative (though unsuccessful) wordsmith. Hint -- get rid of the trite "... sand" twaddle.

      You either need start playing by their rules in order to compete with them, or stop thinking of yourself as "the bottom doing real work". Pretend you're at the top, and they're all moving sideways under you. Does that make you feel better?

      Play by their rules??? Why the fuck would anyone (except for amoral, grasping pricks like you) want to adopt the tactics of the bumblefucks who make them want to puke before leaving for work in the morning. You pusillanimous, mindfucked tool.

    17. Re:Your boss is just an object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Now you're in denial.

      More from the guy who learned his psychology in the sandbox and never left.

      Unfortunately, we're all stuck in the same universe together, we can't just up and leave when we don't like the way things work. In the real world, there are two ways to get rewarded:

      1 - do something worth being rewarded for;

      I already do.

      or 2 - convince others that you should be rewarded (without actually doing anything).

      Your way, disgusting bastard.

      They're both valid ways to get rewards. Because doing things worth being rewarded for is actually difficult, you can often get better rewards and more often, simply by talking people into giving them to you, rather than doing any real work.

      The piece of shit just can't let go of the way that has no benefit for society.



      You're going to have to either ignore it, or play it. No-body is making the rules up, that's just the way the universe works.

      Jesus H. Christ -- now he thinks he's a cosmologist as well. How motherfucking numb can this piece of dicklapper get?

    18. Re:Your boss is just an object by khallow · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but just because a person would prefer working in a Nike sweatshop to starving to death, that's hardly a reason to say that those sweatshops 'advance the human condition.' Sweatshops aren't just about manual labor. They're about working people to the breaking point and beyond, limiting their freedoms, forbidding them from unionizing or fighting for better wages and conditions. They're about governments looking the other way, or even assisting in the oppression of their own people, because somebody is getting bribed or because somebody realizes that the moment they ask for a few pennies more the factories will pack up and move to Zimbabwe (or wherever else people are poor and desperate enough to break their backs for a dollar a day to build us luxury goods). I ask again, how does this advance the human condition?

      You answered the question for me even though you say you didn't. Also these workers are building a future for themselves and their families.

      Nor do I see how making tons of money for people who already have ungodly sums advances the human condition. What jobs did Michael Jordan's basketballing create? Sweatshop jobs for making shoes and jerseys, crap retail jobs taking tickets and selling clothes. A relative handful of jobs that could actually support a family, with most of those being team managers and personal trainers. Michael Jordan was worth billions to the team owners, tens of millions to broadcasters and advertisers, but we're asking how his basketballing feats were helpful to society as a whole?

      I'd say rather thousands of jobs that can support a family. And as I mentioned before, he entertained millions of people at a time.

      Using him, Nike was able to convince lots of kids that their shoes were worth paying a huge premium for, based on no objective measure of quality but on the sort of prestige that can only come from having a beloved celebrity endorse one's wares. I don't see the social benefit in turning mere foot protection into a huge expense for families, or a huge feeling of inadequacy for kids whose parents couldn't afford them. The only value in having Nike shoes was in that they were something that some kids had and other kids didn't. Economists call this 'conspicuous consumption,' which in my mind has negative social value. But I can see how it would make Nike rich, and since you seem to cling to the delusion that the free market always gives everyone what they really want, you would likely call it good.

      Well, we could stop those wicked people from conspicuously consuming, but I don't see the point. If they didn't want to buy it, then they shouldn't have.

      Which brings us to the final argument, the "quality entertainment for millions." Admittedly, I'm biased because I don't care much for sports. But I also have an axe to grind against mass consumption culture (as opposed to participatory culture), especially when someone is making money turning millions of people into mere spectators of their culture, rather than participants. It's not healthy for so many of us to be so used to sitting on our asses and letting other people be creative on our behalves (behalfs?)

      It's all voluntary. And it's only your opinion not shared by the vast majority of humanity that mass entertainment isn't beneficial or productive.

      But let's get back to the original point. Why pay Mike lots of money? Answer, because he provides far more value for the people who watch him play or who employ him. This is straightforward. That's why capitalism is much more straightforward than the pseudomoral ideas that you can somehow make "too much". It's not a moral dilemma in capitalism so we don't waste our time or society trying to prevent people from being too rich. I think that's a much healthier attitude.
    19. Re:Your boss is just an object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Eventually these "phone-flipping lying rat fuck ass-molded hairpieces" end up hosing things so badly (because they don't know what they're doing) they get booted out anyway.

      Fat fucking chance -- they get promoted.

    20. Re:Your boss is just an object by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      You're not being terribly convincing.

      You can't 'build a foundation for yourself and your family' on sweatshop wages. If you could, it would just be called a 'job.' But even if these people somehow manage to build wealth by hiding pennies under a rock, American corporations are receiving 99% of the profit on their labor, and that's simply it's simply not justifiable to treat another human being that way (or to let some corporation do it on your behalf).

      Admitting that conspicuous consumption is wrong or unhealthy isn't the same thing as adding, "and the government should have the power to stop those evil conspicuous consumers, using torture and rendition if necessary." I accept that I can't stop many behaviors I disagree with. You can't seem to accept that the free market doesn't always lead to the most moral or self-interested behavior. I'm flexible in my thinking. You're a one-note ideologue. Which is why you're not convincing to me.

      It's not a 'pseudo-moral' idea to say that there is such a thing as a 'fair share,' or that there is such a thing as 'too rich' in a world where 800 million people are in the act of slowly dying of poverty. It's a moral one. The idea that your freedom to buy yourself a third yacht trumps another person's freedom to eat is also a moral one. Economics is very much a field of applied ethics. The thing is, your moral ideas aren't very good, because they don't approach anything normal people recognize as moral.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  13. I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputers' by quiberon2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Asking "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?" is like asking "Why would you ever want to have a baby".

    Sometimes it's the only way to develop what you need; sometimes it just happens by accident; and sometimes someone gives you one to look after for them.

    You don't want to have a baby very often, but it's just as well that some people have them sometimes.

    We're thinking about throwing Java out. It has the same problems with 'synchronisation' that C has with 'memory allocation'. You can't get it right all the time, it's too hard.

    And Intel are coming up with these 80-Core chips.

    A real lot of stuff will have to be rebuilt if we do. Hopefully automatically built from modelling tools. But there will have to be people, to resolve the defects, if it is to support the business.

  14. Degradation by apeeira · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Degrading the art and science of programing will have an adverse effect on the developer community,for after all if all i have to do in order to make an app is do a little copy, cut and paste ms word style..... Of course if this idea came from the management field, we could do the opposite....like this: "see we have developed a new algorithm for managerial decisions which will cut prices and increase profits for the company, their hardware requirements are not high and can work 7/24 without a corporate VISA..." and let's see them after that...

  15. What makes you think... by Hap76 · · Score: 1

    that managers belonging to the "Silver Bullet of the Month Club" will even read that far? I thought that books like this were for sitting on one's bookshelf, to convince your employees that you're working really hard to make everything better, not for actual consumption.

  16. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by mypalmike · · Score: 2

    We're thinking about throwing Java out. It has the same problems with 'synchronisation' that C has with 'memory allocation'. You can't get it right all the time, it's too hard.

    Just curious: What are the proposed alternatives that simplify synchronization?

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
  17. this is old news by jt418-93 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i remember when turbo pascal and all the nice little objects were going to end having to write the basics, or when windows and common dialogs was going to save it.

    same bs, different cow's ass producing it.

    software always comes down to borrowing as much existing stuff as you can and building the rest. ime, very little from project a is actually appropriate for projcet b.

    bah, back to coding asm in notepad.

    --
    -.no
  18. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by kfg · · Score: 1

    "Why would you ever want to have a baby".

    Damn if I know, but it's way to late to try to stuff her back in; I think she can take me.

    KFG

  19. More gardner crap by infinite9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"

    Assuming they mean business logic and not things like sorting algorithms, you had better have vast quantities of foresight to make that happen. As most other crud conjured up by these people, it sounds great on paper and when given to executive types in the form of powerpoint presentations, but in practice, it falls apart. Different programmers, different programming styles, changing business rules, mergers, new client requirements, scope creep, abandoned products, legacy code you're unable to get away from, new business standards (like we're a java company, no .net, no java), politics and empire building, and any number of other variables all come together to make the business environment so complicated that developers will be reinventing the wheel for years to come. Things like MQSeries or Oracle have gone a long way toward standardizing things. You don't cook up databases in flat files anymore. You don't (usually) write your own messaging systems by opening sockets directly. Things like the .net framework or j2ee mean we're not writing sorting algorithms anymore. But that just frees us up to work on other complex systems. And complexity is growing faster than these sorts of standardized frameworks can be created. We'll continue to use standardized middleware packages and other third party controls or libraries. But the business will always need custom solutions that build on those standards.

    --
    Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
    1. Re:More gardner crap by recharged95 · · Score: 1
      Good writeup.

      Then again:

      "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"'

      The answer: to make money. If you think about it, nearly half of business profits are created from inefficiencies. Usually it's derived from the need of IP, a.k.a. properitary code, regardless if it was 'copied' or 'reused'.

      --------

      Information is power, and guess what power equates to money...

  20. its in the library or its in the framework. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The best solutions to specific problems are going to be custom made, at least for a while."

    Like frameworks or libraries

  21. Scope creep? by merdaccia · · Score: 1
    Most projects do have scope creep -- 1% per month is typical -- but three or more adjustments due to changing requirements means that the project is already out of control

    A project creeps in scope 1% per month? How do you even begin to make this assertion? What is the unit of scope, and how do you measure its creep?

    What a load of creep, err, crap.

    --

    *blinking cursor*

    1. Re:Scope creep? by kfg · · Score: 2, Funny

      What is the unit of scope

      Fathoms.

      KFG

    2. Re:Scope creep? by Firedog · · Score: 1

      I'd kill to work on a project with scope creep of only 1% per month. Hell, I'd take 1% per day...

    3. Re:Scope creep? by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Yeah. But not only that - I've always considered scope creep to be a management failure. It's caused by a boss that's afraid to tell his customers "The feature list for the first release is closed. We'll put that in a later version." If the scope is creeping too much it's time to cancel the manager, not the project.

    4. Re:Scope creep? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Informative
      A project creeps in scope 1% per month? How do you even begin to make this assertion? What is the unit of scope, and how do you measure its creep?

      Scope can be reflected in requirements. If the number of requirements goes up 1% per month, you are getting a 1% scope creep. Note that this measure does not take into account differences in complexity between individual requirements - for a more accurate measure one might use function points, number of classes and/or methods needed to implement the functionality, etc. You need a fairly mature process to be able to measure these at all, let alone accurately, but they are available to those who work hard at the process game (now whether or not that actually gets you anywhere is open to debate, but...).

      However, the quote of a 1% per month scope creep as a cut off point seems a bit low, especially if taken literally on a month-to-month basis. Across the life of a project, 1% per month may be high, but cutting a project off because its scope has risen 7% in three months of the late analysis or design phases seems a bit excessive, especially if by doing so you have 0% increase during implementation, test, or deployment.

      --
      That is all.
  22. Reuse us for sissies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    But the biggest problem with code re-use is the human resources element, they caution. Hoyle pointed out that programmers are likely to say, "I can write you some of that. Reuse is for sissies. I'm a better programmer than they are."

    WTF. Every programmer I know thinks writing stuff for reuse is much more difficult than not. The problem with reuse is that the writer of that component need all kinds of experience of the different ways the component could be used before they are able to make a decent reusable component.

    Hey managers, if you have a programmer that said "Reuse us for sissies", you've got yourself a stupid programmer.

    1. Re:Reuse us for sissies by lahi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WTF. Every programmer I know thinks writing stuff for reuse is much more difficult than not. The problem with reuse is that the writer of that component need all kinds of experience of the different ways the component could be used before they are able to make a decent reusable component.

      So true! I think there are two separate issues with this.
      1. As you say: WTF. Everyone reading the daily WTF know that other people write awful code. So why take a risk using that code, which is probably buggy, and unreadable, and unfixable, when you can roll your own? This of course tends to becode the NIH-syndrome.

      2. A decent reusable component - does what exactly? Either it is 100% reusable - meaning it does nothing specific and is effectively equivalent to Yet Another Programming Language, or it is not. So it probably does some things you need and can reuse, some things that you don't need, and which will just annoy you because you can't take them out, and there still remains some things that you need which it does not provide, and which you have to fit onto the "reusable component", which can also be hard.

      Say, you need a "small furry gray mammal" (a mouse.) Instead of making a mouse, you decide to take a reusable component. Your developers have already developed an elephant, which nearly fits the requirements. Now all you have to do is make it small and furry. And somehow work around the trunk, which *will* get in your way.

      You think that's a good example of a bad case of reuse? No, that was good reuse. Bad reuse is when you buy a big blue whale to solve the same problem. Why would you do that? Perhaps because it's big and blue. And any manager will tell you that blue is the nicest shade of gray there is.

      -Lasse

  23. Components like... by Firedog · · Score: 1

    Spring? Swing? Struts? Xerces? Xalan? Hibernate? (forgive my Java-centric examples)

    Frameworks for developing applications are indeed developing and maturing, and software architects are leveraging these components instead of building these things from scratch. Why would you rewrite Hibernate if it does all you need?

    Lower-level code is getting more modular, but user expectations keep increasing. They want their web applications to be as robust and full-featured as desktop apps. The business logic unique to a customer isn't getting any simpler. No matter how many general components are available, there will still be tons of work in the custom realm.

    This is the history of software engineering. More and more layers of abstraction are built on top of the basic AND, OR, and NOT operations that every program ultimately is made of.

    I don't see how this is going away anytime soon. It's easy enough for someone to get up in front of a crowd and say "modules are the way to go, and programmer productivity doesn't count anymore" but assembling a complex application is a lot more work than putting together a few Lego blocks.

    1. Re:Components like... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      More and more layers of abstraction are built on top of the basic AND, OR, and NOT operations that every program ultimately is made of.

      You young whippersnappers with your fancy logical operations. When I was young, all we had was NAND. I once built an entire computer using only NAND gates.

  24. They can harp on that all they want... by geekd · · Score: 1

    I'll never work for someone who is dumb enough to listen to crap like that.

    So, let all the big companys buy into the bullsh*t. I'll continue to work for small startups, and we'll continue to out-develop and out maneuver the big dumb lumbering brutes.

    Once a company get over 100 people, it's time to leave.

    If you have a question about how the app you are writing is supposed to work, and you can't just walk over and ask 1 person, and have them make a decision, then it's time to leave.

    Once developers are not allowed to innovate, it's time to leave.

    There will always be startups. The pay may go up and down depending on the VC market at the time, but they will always be there, and they will always be better, more challenging, more fun and more rewarding places to work that some big company where the boss listens to Gartner.

    -geekd

    1. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      I'll never work for someone who is dumb enough to listen to crap like that.

      So you plan to live "off the grid" as a hobo?
    2. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by geekd · · Score: 1

      Smart bosses DO exist. I'm sorry you've never found one.

    3. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      Of the dozen or so managers I've had in my short working life (< 10 years), only 2 qualify in my mind as better than "mediocre" - and both of them were much more skilled communicators than anything. None have been both good at communication and good at something else...

      Call me a 20-something cynic, but I'm convinced the PHB stereotype really *is* pretty accurate.

    4. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by geekd · · Score: 1

      This is what I'm talking about. You had "managers". Go work at a startup and the boss is THE BOSS. The guy who's money is funding all this. The guy who's ass is on the line if it all fails.

      "Managers" are why I'll never work for a big company again.

      I must say, tho, when I was at MP3.com, my immediate manager was awesome.

      Look people. If you are a programmer, and you have skills, you can work for whoever you want (assuming you're in a major city). Pick your employer carefully, be choosy, and value your work environment more than your paycheck. You'll be way happier in the long run.

      -geekd

    5. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by mdhoover · · Score: 1

      All I can say with regards to management is that it depends on the industry, and where the managers originally came from.

      I spent 8 years working in the electronics industry, where most management was promoted up from the work floor (production engineers/managers) or came from the engineering/design department. They all knew intimately from experience what it was that they were managing and were totally pragmatic with regards to decision making. For the most part an environment was in place where the workers managed themselves (who knows the job better, the manager or the guy that does it every day) and the managers were there for support or to go into bat for the workers. The managers job was primarily to listen and facilitate what the workers required. Best company I ever worked for... up until they got bought out...

      The IT industry is a totally different case in point.
      In the 9 years I have been working IT (predominately as a consultant to large corporates) I can say that the PHB is the norm not the exception. From what I can see about 60% of the tards folk end up with as managers were promoted sideways with little to no IT knowledge apart from buzzwords they picked up from the latest issue of MIS magazine (they were useless in their previous non-IT role but couldnt be shown the door for one reason or another).
      Another 30% come from Novell/Windows Desktop support/helpdesk management and have little to no knowledge of how anything actually really works or scales (if it cant be pointed and clicked they have no clue). Unfortunately these clowns usually think they know everything... a little bit of knowledge in the wrong hands...

      The last 10% (who you want to be working for) can be split into 2 groups.
      a) The old grizzled Unix/Mainframe hands that have been fighting IT since the mid 80's, early 90's who were reluctantly pushed into management (great manager for cutting through the bullshit and getting the job done right, though prone to micromanagement and/or doing it all themselves). Generally dont get along with PHB managers, therefore have trouble pushing an agenda through an organisation.
      b) The developers who worked themselves up through project management who may not know how everything works, but know how to ask questions and more importantly WHO to ask questions. These guys usually know how to push their agenda through the other 90% of PHB tards and perform the onerous task as acting as a buffer between the PHB tards and the guys shovelling at the coalface.

      It is a rather sad indictment that most IT managers have zero idea of what they are managing, this doesn't happen so often in other technical industries...

    6. Re:They can harp on that all they want... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      Actually, I went to work for a Fortune-listed megacorp in large part *because* I didn't like the management that comes with the instability of small startups like the one I'd worked for previously. Both of the managers/executives at that startup LLC were get-rich-quick-on- types who didn't know anything about IT and didn't care, so long as they could get their angel investors to come through with 6 figures (which, coming in at the tail end of the dotcom craze, they never did). OTOH, one of the two managers I rank better than "mediocre" was the one I started out working beneath at my current company.

      These days, I'm wondering if a mid-sized company is where I want to be at, where there might only be 2-3 layers of management above me instead of 5 (7 if you count project management and task-level management within a project). Or, at least, just a *different* Fortune megacorp, if not just a different team within my current company...

      You are very right about the work environment vs. the paycheck though. The fact that my job as a salaried developer really *is* generally an approximately 40-45 hour/week job is nice because it's unusual for the field, and I've come to value my free time quite a bit since graduating from university...

  25. New software to solve new problems by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 2, Insightful
    [Gartner analyst] Veccio stated "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"
    How about because what's needed doesn't exist? This bozo sounds like the head of the patent office in 19th century who recommended that the office be closed because, "...everything that can be invented, has been invented." What an idiot.

    As the cost of computing drops, there will always be new problems that could not be economically attacked until the cost of the computation became cheap enough. These problems will not have a canned solution and someone will have to go off and build the application from scratch. As long as computing continues to get cheaper, there will always be new problems to be solved.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
  26. tps reports by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    endless tps reports killing development projects too.

  27. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

    I would imagine Erlang would be a contender.

    --
    Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
  28. Microsoft Is A Great OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You Linux people kill me. I could go on and on about the problems with all the differnt Distros of Linux. For every gripe you got about Microsoft I got one for you about Linux. Here are a few. Updates for some of the different flavors of Linux are an absolute pain in the ars. Then when you want to install say Nagios, it takes hours because you have to try and find all the packages and then you might not be able to install the one package because it is depent on another package and to find that other package you have to score around for hours. I can see using Linux or Unix in certain cases, but in no way is it ready for mainstream. I mean can you image your typical end user trying to run a Linux box! hahahahahahahaha that is funny!

    1. Re:Microsoft Is A Great OS by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Use a distro that isn't RedHat. That will solve that problem. But you think Microsoft is an OS so you're screwed either way.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    2. Re:Microsoft Is A Great OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when was yum install nagios hard? Or apt-get?

    3. Re:Microsoft Is A Great OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You trolling people kill me. Microsoft in not an OS, it's a company for God's sake!

  29. Selling silver bullets by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1

    Business is hard work and people are always looking for shortcuts. It isn't much different to the whole slimming/diet industry for fat folks. As long as there are people who want shortcuts there will be all kinds of management/software/business fads selling black belts, software components, agile development etc.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  30. And the catch is always... by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "We need an inventory module for this project. Use the one from the MegaMess project."
    "Yeah, sure, that should work. A little overkill, but it'll do what we need."
    "Oh and it has to track the inventory by supplier's parent company and supplier's parent company's SKU."
    "Uh....what?"
    "Yeah, we get most of our inventory from local suppliers, but they all get it from the OEM. We need to use the OEM part numbers, with an indication of which OEM it is."
    "Uh, but the MegaMess project tracked inventory by product group. It doesn't even use SKUs. And we don't need to report on SKUs for what we're doing, why do we need them?"
    "Director of marketing wants to see a report broken down by SKU, and rolled up by parent supplier."
    "I don't think we're going to be able to use the MegaMess inventory."
    "DAMMIT! Just use the components we've already got! We aren't going to write any new code for this!"

    --
    Just junk food for thought...
    1. Re:And the catch is always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous Lazy says:

      "DAMMIT! Just use the components we've already got! We aren't going to write any new code for this!"

      If my boss said this to me I would have to tell me that I'm going to work for another manager who is not stupid and insane. The combination, I would add, is detrimental the the interests of the company and I am registering a firm and clear complaint to his boss. Period. Having done exactly this on several occassions I have noticed that suddenly the Right Thing appears like a shining ray of light from the heavens and my boss suddenly sees the light and says, "OK, well you're the genius - just handle it the best way you can. Thanks."

      No, I'm not kidding.

    2. Re:And the catch is always... by Shados · · Score: 1

      Hahaha, too funny, because I went through that hell last week and almost quit my job because of it. Finally convinced my boss to stop thinking that way (saving 2 days by reusing "MegaMess" to lose 3 weeks later is just rediculous... Sometimes managers just want to reuse stuff for the sake of reusing stuff.).

      However, I'll say... a well architected system will have a lot of very small, highly reusable components and structures...so reusing those usualy won't turn into a "megamess"

    3. Re:And the catch is always... by robophobe · · Score: 1

      Probably the little gotcha requirement would be left out by Mr. middle manager in this dicussion. Then, months later, when the project was nearing completion he would suddenly explode.

      "Why doesn't this system track the inventory by supplier's parent company and supplier's parent company's SKU!!!??!!??"
      "Uh... But the requirements never said-"
      "I don't want excuses, I want results!!! For God's sake, you had a fully functional inventory module handed to you!!!!"

      --
      There was a time when movies had plots. So you knew who's ass it was, and why it was farting.
      -Not Sure
    4. Re:And the catch is always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience it works more like this:

      Requirements text:
      "The assessment will be available for the user to take for a period of 7 days. If the user decides not to take the assessment immediately, a reminder will be E-mail to the user after a configurable number of days have passed (default will be 2 days)."

      3 weeks before launch, during integrations testing:
      Us: "We're not seeing the reminder E-mails come to users."

      Developers: "They're configured to be sent after 3 months, which is our out-of-the-box default."

      Us: "They need to happen after 2 days."

      Developers: "Do you have any idea how hard that will be to code?! We need more time! Why didn't you tell us earlier? It's not something that can be user configured you know."

      Us: "Do you guys even read the requirements we supply?"

    5. Re:And the catch is always... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      "I don't want excuses, I want results!!! For God's sake, you had a fully functional inventory module handed to you!!!!"

      "Boss, please point to the requirement that talks about tracking inventory by supplier. We got that other team to sign off, so looks like we're good"

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:And the catch is always... by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

      Just been through that myself on a contract with an appalling boss. I HATE that tone of voice they use. Why are they so insane? Why can't there be a boss that actually knows what they are talking about? I haven't had one yet....

      In my case the 'gotcha' was pretty much a whim of the CEO.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    7. Re:And the catch is always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Oh and it has to track the inventory by supplier's parent company and supplier's parent company's SKU."
      "Uh....what?"
      "Yeah, we get most of our inventory from local suppliers, but they all get it from the OEM. We need to use the OEM part numbers, with an indication of which OEM it is."
      So, the problem is that both these people are too stupid to recognize that a supplier getting a part from an OEM does not make the OEM a "parent company" of the supplier? No wonder the original inventory module is screwed up. It must have been built by a similar group of idiots who don't think things through.
    8. Re:And the catch is always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Boss, please point to the requirement that talks about tracking inventory by supplier. We got that other team to sign off, so looks like we're good"

      No good. Your boss is already catching heat from his uber-bozo and your boss wants to look like the "can do" two-fisted manager, so you're screwed.

      Pointing out that the initial specs were ignored will only get you the fish-eye when passing the office of your boss (or any of the higher-ups). [Like higher up the ass.]

      In all likelihood, you will be the recipient of the curse once uttered by Dilbert's PHB, as he pointed an outstretched finger at Dilbert, "I brand you not a team player."

      I actually saw this happen to a guy who had 20 years experience in the company. When someone was speccing out the bright, shiny new project, the guy had the temerity to point out that the plan included a strategy which had previously been tried and failed in a previous project. He was met with a hail of "negativistic, not a team player, a foot-dragger, lacking in vision". Shortly afterward, he left the company; the project went forward (?) using the bad strategy and subsequently failed for the predicted reason.

  31. The problem with the component approach by MadLep · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The 80/20 rule messes up the reality of using components (whether it's EJB/SOA/latest cool thing). It takes 20% of the time to do the easy 80% of the work. Then 80% of the time to do the remaining hard 20%. Components give you the easy 80%. Which you could already do pretty quickly anyway, so you're really not gaining much.

    Then you're still left with the remaining hard work, which probably got harder and will take longer due to the overhead of your component framework and its mess of configuration.

    And that is totally ignoring the fact that it's very hard to find components to reuse anyway.

    1. Re:The problem with the component approach by plehmuffin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It takes 20% of the time to do the easy 80% of the work. Then 80% of the time to do the remaining hard 20%. Components give you the easy 80%. Which you could already do pretty quickly anyway, so you're really not gaining much.

      Actually, you're gaining 20%. That ain't bad.

      Now, with your other points factored in you might not break even, but if they can be mitigated then something which can give a 20% improvement is certainly worth considering.

  32. While we're talking about random quotes by hayden · · Score: 5, Funny
    Here's one I got from an article a while back:

    So there it is: IT analysts are basically corporate technology therapists. But there are other ways of looking at it, one of which was put succinctly some years ago by Charles Wang, the billionaire chairman of software giant Computer Associates. He was asked to assess the quality of Gartner's researchers. "I want to choose my words carefully here, so I'm not misunderstood," he said. "They're a bunch of fucking idiots."
    --
    Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
    1. Re:While we're talking about random quotes by smallpaul · · Score: 1

      Is that true or an urban myth? Can you cite a source?

    2. Re:While we're talking about random quotes by ZenFu · · Score: 1

      I remember an interview "The Wang" he gave in Forbes during the late 80's or early 90's...

      He said that when a project ran late, he's fire the 2 most junior people on the team. He thought that the method sent the right sort of message and was effective in getting the project back on track.

    3. Re:While we're talking about random quotes by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      He said that when a project ran late, he's fire the 2 most junior people on the team. He thought that the method sent the right sort of message and was effective in getting the project back on track.

      Even if the screw-up was the most senior?

    4. Re:While we're talking about random quotes by ZenFu · · Score: 1

      He didn't specify and Forbes didn't ask.

      My guess is that he didn't try to understand the cause, he was just trying to "send a message".

      I wonder what the managers did think when they realized they got they got the most innocent workers fired.

  33. I blame Star Trek. by khasim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Sure, I know you need to do some of this stuff, but, really...often these days, all you have are mgmt types that know nothing besides these buzzwords, meetings and paperwork....the actual work to be done and deliverables to be produced are merely a nagging side item.

    You get everyone in a room.
    You all agree that there is a problem.
    You tell someone to X the Y to emit Z which will collapse the problem.
    5 minutes later, the Y has been X'd and is Z'ing the problem.

    The magic words made the problem go away. Quickly. So you just have to find the right magic words to say and technology will solve your business problems!

    Hasn't this been covered in many, many Dilbert strips?

    Spewing buzzwords seems to be an acceptable replacement for thought and knowledge in certain companies.
    1. Re:I blame Star Trek. by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1
      "The future of application development is not about programmer productivity," said Hoyle during the keynote presentation, "but in assembling functionality from components." While programming will not go away, he stressed, programming has decreasing importance in delivering excellence.

      In related news, managing will not go away, but management by idiots has decreasing importance and needs to be outsourced.

    2. Re:I blame Star Trek. by dwarfking · · Score: 1

      So if there is a decreased importance on delivering excellence, then where exactly do these components come from? Won't they need to be excellent in order to be used in mundane systems?

      This is just like the whole outsource debate. If you outsource all your low level development because we don't need a staff of junior developers when we can pay others to do it, then exactly where do the architects and system designers come from who are supposed to design what the outsourced staff builds? It certainly isn't from any college I'm aware of.

      Without experience building software (which you get as a junior developer) it's hard to be a software designer.

  34. NB: this is for enterprise companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gartner's advice is for enterprise companies. Not companies that actually come up with new products. For certain enterprise companies where software development is not a strength nor core part of their business, this makes complete sense. New companies are alwasy funded in silicon valley that write things from scratch. Then those new companies become big companies or are purchased by large companies :)

  35. Embodiment of US Corporate Zeitgeist by mpapet · · Score: 1

    The analyst is captures the essence of American big-business, "Don't do anything new." Just remix something already on the shelf. It's better."

    This is low-cost producer corporateThink. America cannot be the low-cost producer. So the obligation is to innovate.

    But the wealthiest 2% can't stand innovation because it is a direct threat to their wealth. They go to Washington and legislate innovation away.

    I left the environment that this analyst describes because it rotten. It rots the brain!

    Now I work in a company where my superiors have the same disregard for this kind of thinking and we're doing well. The sky is not the limit though. They are small enough no competitors care, but definitely delivering value to our customers.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Embodiment of US Corporate Zeitgeist by Millenniumman · · Score: 1
      But the wealthiest 2% can't stand innovation because it is a direct threat to their wealth. They go to Washington and legislate innovation away.


      First of all, most of them are pretty secure in their wealth.

      Taking something extant and making it better is certainly innovation, and it's the kind that really produces great things. Think of a good technology product. OS X/Desktop Linux/iPod/IBM-PC/etc. None of these were the first of their kind.
      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    2. Re:Embodiment of US Corporate Zeitgeist by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      But the wealthiest 2% can't stand innovation because it is a direct threat to their wealth.

      Well, really, no. The real reason why businesses can't stand innovation is because it entails risk. Something new might not work. And that is a corporate sin, especially if you have a tried alternative that will produce a known reasonable outcome. And although I do believe that the income inequities in this country are far too large, in this case the wealthiest 2% is often the source of a lot of VC money that is risk invested.

      --
      That is all.
  36. ... tells my boss whatever ... by Original+Replica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The layer of people between the decision makers and the product makers exist in every industry, and in every industry there are far too many of them, so they must justify their jobs and salaries. Isn't that more important than innovation or efficency? To them it is.

    --
    We are all just people.
  37. its in the accidents or its in the cemetary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "I vividly remember the epic battles that took place when managers returned from TQM (Total Quality Management) training. The all had these purposeful looks of the new acolyte and a Franklin Planner under their arm. They cooked up Vision and Mission statements and tried to get everyone on the bandwagon. It was a trying time because most of the way we already did things were obviously the most efficient. Work under the gun a lot and you tend to find the shortcuts yourself. If anything we became less efficient until the whole clamour died away and most of us returned to getting it done the proper way."

    And yet a lot of code isn't quality, and computers crash and people die. Maybe we need fewer "shortcuts", and more "quality".

    1. Re:its in the accidents or its in the cemetary. by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      And yet a lot of code isn't quality, and computers crash and people die. Maybe we need fewer "shortcuts", and more "quality".

      And yet a lot of big companies who have legions of MBAs are regularly reported in the news, leaking user data, having recalls, denying their product had anything to do with a tragedy, big accounting firm taking money and giving their nod of approval to crooks. Yeah.

      The shortcuts I mean aren't quick and dirty, they're just the most direct path among the parties who need to know, without lots of fun meetings where you explain things to people who will forget all the key points and then force preposterous schemes upon IT because it gives them something to do. Ever hear of people whose jobs it is to go to meetings? TQM created a need for these people.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:its in the accidents or its in the cemetary. by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      True, we need more quality.

      To get it, we need fewer "managers" standing around shouting
      about how they dont know what they need, but the know when
      they need it. And they refuse to prioritize, saying "it is all
      equally important". ( Note, not every manager fits this shoe,
      but the ones that do need to start thinking ). Shortcuts
      come about from excessive schedule pressure.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    3. Re:its in the accidents or its in the cemetary. by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I went through these quality improvement movements too and the problem is that the quality is just another layer thrown on top of other activities. They wanted us to incorporate them into daily work but they didn't change the core incentives of the company. Not a single day was added to any schedule to provide more time for "doing things right the first time".

      If "quality is free" at all, it's only free in the long term, and rarely is your boss interested in the long term. Despite the "grass-roots" rhetoric to these movements, management determines how much "quality" they're willing to pay for, not engineers and programmers.

    4. Re:its in the accidents or its in the cemetary. by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      If "quality is free" at all, it's only free in the long term, and rarely is your boss interested in the long term. Despite the "grass-roots" rhetoric to these movements, management determines how much "quality" they're willing to pay for, not engineers and programmers.

      As if to underscore this, in the first rounds of job cuts they sacked Q/A. When the people who do that work leave, the writing is on the wall.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  38. Gartner always forgets to say... by mugnyte · · Score: 1

    ...that they themselves are a brand. They sell their methods, scope and delivery as of the highest quality and strongest reliability. They have an established market, cater their style towards the "executive" woodgrain model, and compete with an ever-stronger ear to the ground: the 'net and specifically the tech blogosphere.

    They opine on techniques that have resulted in both success and failure, quote objective data, and compile their own trends and predictions. This isn't necessarily bad, but taken alone (and they price and market themselves as the only source necessary) can make for a myopic view of the world.

    Their predictions are "poor to fair" in my opinion. Their influences worked badly at shops I've seen, which are more "good ole boy" than "hip entrpreneur". Their style to digest large amounts of trending information and craft a slick prediction does not make a process leader. In fact, it can make an environment seem "behind the times" as well as "constantly changing" since shops that get directed to perform changes based on Gartner papers too often switch gears to trends already fading.

    Much of what they say is execu-craft-speak, without stating anything concrete at all. Only the style of the presentation and perceived caliber of the brand have influence. Plenty of other magazines try this too (see the cage litter "Application Development Trends").

    Component-model designs, where change is encapsulated in replaceable (and OTS) pieces, has been a goal for some time. Software projects that slide scope cannot simply "be killed." The charge that programmers constantly find better ways to perform the same tasks is at the heart of the technology era: Programming itself is one of the tasks becoming better automated every day, just like the business tasks they code for.

  39. Modularity has downsides by aschoeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Question: "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again?"

    Answer: In order to avoid bloat, stability, performance, and security issues from using modules that are overly-used, overly-general and/or don't exactly meet your spec but are "close enough."

    Best Example: Microsoft Office

  40. Ya done it by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...that they themselves are a brand. They sell their methods, scope and delivery as of the highest quality and strongest reliability. They have an established market, cater their style towards the "executive" woodgrain model, and compete with an ever-stronger ear to the ground: the 'net and specifically the tech blogosphere.

    You just blew out my buzzword detector. Expect a repair bill soon, Jackson!

  41. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by ljw1004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What are the proposed alternatives that simplify synchronization?

    (1) Software Transactional Memory, STMs. You write "int STM x=5;" and then one thread can do "atomic {x+=1;}" and another does "atomic {...;x-=1;...}" and the runtime+compiler magically make the atomic blocks execute atomically. This is different from Java synchronization blocks because these can be executed optimistically in parallel and because they never result in deadlock. People therefore say that STMs are "compositional" in a way that locks are not. The key is that the compiler/runtime know how to roll back an atomic block. This kind of atomic block interfaces very gracefully with SQL transactions.

    (2) Message-passing. Academically it's embodied in the "pi calculus". In web terms it's embodied in the W3C "choreography" working draft. In practical terms it's embodied in Microsoft's Biztalk and in Ericcson's Erlang language and in Microsoft's new Robotics SDK. It's also a little reminiscent of "tuple-space" operating systems. The idea is that threads communicate by sending messages to each other. It's still possible to deadlock (e.g. if one thread waits for a message that will never come) but these errors seem more rare in practice. Also it's easier to analyse for this kind of problem at compile-time than it is with synchronization.

    (3) Write the code in a functional way, so the compiler infers parallelism automatically and you don't need to. Or, take existing C code and have the compiler infer dataflow in it, then proceed as above. e.g. WaveScaler at UW, I think. Many people think this is the best hope for the coming world of multi-core chips.

  42. NIH. by Kaenneth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In some ways I agree, 'Not Invented Here' is a real problem, where a department wants to come up with it's own tools, instead of using a shared set of tools.

    There are some things you shouldn't do yourself, and some things you should.

    Janitorial staffing, for example. Should each department in a building owned by the same company hire a seperate company to clean their offices? Obviously not. But should they all be required to use the same text editor, no matter if they are laying out advertisments or writing C++? I think not.

    Both of those cases are obvious, but what about the text editor used by programmers in different departments? Unfortunetly, usually the person in a position to make company-wide policy does not know enough about a specific job area to make reasonable blanket requirements, requiring all developers to use a particular editor, no matter if they are developing for Windows or Linux would be like telling all janitors to use the same floor cleaner for office carpets and the parking garage.

    In the Janitors case, since they are often outsourced, or at least a seperate department, they have their own structure which tells them what to use where.

    In the software developers case, having a seperate structure to set standards can lead to problems when the Project manager's directions conflict with the standard practices; the project manager's desires usually take hold, because they are in direct contact with the developer, while the company standards are less strictly enforced. This leads to the effective death of the 'standards'. After this happens a number of times, everyone loses faith in anything labeled a company standard, and since they expect no support, they don't even really try to adhere to them.

    I don't have a solution, as once an organization reaches this level of NIH, any efforts to re-establish a standards process are doomed to fail.

    1. Re:NIH. by Geminii · · Score: 1
      There are ways to slow down the process. One that I saw from the sidelines was the 'business case and budget' model. If a developer or department wanted to use the corporate standard, they got free setup, free support, free or very cheap resources, and if it broke someone else had to fix it.

      If they wanted to do their own thing, they had to write up a business case saying why their method was better. Almost any half-competent case was accepted, but it was amazing how many requests for 200 copies of Krazy Karl's Software-O-Matic died aborning because the requester apparently didn't consider it so much better that they'd be prepared to hack out a four-page writeup explaining the pros and cons.

      The other side of the equation was budget and support. If they bought something non-corporate-approved, they got zero support, had to handle all the running costs, problems and third-party liaison themselves, were responsible for fixing it if it broke, and if it caused problems for any other department the IT area could confiscate their baby and toss it in the dumpster.

      Of course, they could get around this by asking that Krazy Karl's Software-O-Matic be made a corporate standard. THAT was a process which involved months of testing against the SOE, required extremely detailed business cases which were actually scrutinzed by beancounters, and more red tape than any five projects.

      But, y'know, not technically impossible. It's just that even the most vehement evangelists for Krazy Karl tended to lose their enthusiasm when presented with the relevant stack of paperwork and timeframes that included the next couple of business quarters.

      From a helpdesk perspective, it was great. We never had to tell a developer 'no', we just had to point them to the intranet page which detailed their options and then hang up before they got far enough into the small print to realise they were boned.

  43. This an old model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've worked with this model for ten years already and there are advantages and disadvantages. Unfortunately, it's rare that you can find either a management team or a software development organziation that understands either.

    The component model works reasonably well for the Generic Core Business Functions (i.e accounting, human resources, sales, etc.), however only to the exent that you can use Off The Shelf Functionality. If your requirements are unique (or you think they are) you end up with a full blown development project on your hands anyway (with associated headaches and expense).

    If, on the other hand, the requirements you are trying to address are part of the Value-Added Function that your organization provides to it's customers, you had better be willing to invest in creating some real value for the customer. If you spend a couple of months integrating off the shelf components that can provide the same value, you're not likely to be in business long.

    Killing projects early for the Right Reasons is simply good management but the need to do this is usually an indication that there is something wrong in the organization itself. If you are part of an organization that does this frequently, the governance process or the development process is broken or both. Flee with all due speed.

    1. Re:This an old model by rainmayun · · Score: 1

      Killing projects early for the Right Reasons is simply good management but the need to do this is usually an indication that there is something wrong in the organization itself. If you are part of an organization that does this frequently, the governance process or the development process is broken or both. Flee with all due speed.

      I disagree. A place that engages in the creative process will naturally come up with some dud ideas. Sometimes you don't know that an idea is a dud before the project starts. But if new ideas are squelched so much that only "sure fire" projects are engaged, then the only thing that's "sure fire" is the fact that said company will eventually wither away and die.

  44. Selling silver dashboards. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah! Like dashboards.

  45. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by ozbird · · Score: 2, Funny

    And Intel are coming up with these 80-Core chips.

    The 80x86?

  46. I dunno if Gartner wields the power you suggest by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    It's not like Gartner is the only company in the industry telling companies to explore sourcing (offshore and otherwise). Pretty much every venture capital firm out there today has a policy in place that requires the companies they invest in to have an offshoring/sourcing strategy. There are many reasons why offshoring, when applied correctly, makes great business sense. So to suggest that it's big, bad Gartner whispering in the ears of corporate America that's causing the outsourcing trend is overreacting a little bit.

    It seems like most of the advice Gartner dishes out, with its "magic quadrants" and what-not, is about which products to buy.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:I dunno if Gartner wields the power you suggest by dbIII · · Score: 1
      There are many reasons why offshoring, when applied correctly, makes great business sense

      However it is usually employed as a fad and for other reasons and often taken to extremes. It's a quick fix when you have let your countries education go down the toilet. You can employ a guy from India with a real degree and better usage of english than a local high school graduate. In the long term it is the way to lose everything - because whatever the quality of the technical staff are overseas you can be sure their managers over there are better than the local ones that outsourced to them - leaving you with a local shell of people that are easily replaced figureheads and all the companies intellectual property in a another country where you have will have almost no chance of taking legal action no matter what is done by the people there.

      In some large companies it is a handy way for people to shift blame about and deny responsibility - you get local and unrelated problems blamed on the contractors who are not present or even aware of the issue. This is of course bad news for everyone.

    2. Re:I dunno if Gartner wields the power you suggest by Acer500 · · Score: 1
      leaving you with a local shell of people that are easily replaced figureheads and all the companies intellectual property in a another country where you have will have almost no chance of taking legal action no matter what is done by the people there.


      Playing Devil's Advocate for a while (and living in a Third World country), it doesn't look like that here.

      We do have a few offshore companies working here (one is the single largest IT employer in the country, even more than the government), and they have lobbied hard to the government, that much so that we had to copy & paste some of the US legislation on patents and other IP, and the US government is playing carrot & stick with a trade agreement to have other changes implemented.

      So I'd say that a sufficiently large company will have chance to take legal action, and probably win it, not to mention the possibility of bribing, coercing & such (there was a huge case in Argentina regarding IBM not so long ago).
      --
      There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
  47. Yeah, and Eli Whitney was lying, too. by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    The "components" snake oil has been around ever since Eli Whitney duped Congress with a faked demo in 1808. "No one realized it then, but Whitney was faking it. He'd carefully hand-crafted each part so they'd fit together. Whitney sold the government a huge contract for four thousand muskets. He took eight years to deliver them and then the parts weren't interchangeable after all."

    But, you will say, they eventually did get it to work. True. But "software components" have been advertised as the cure for what ails software development since about 1989, and I haven't seen any evidence of a vigorous market in useful software components.

    Is your company's mission-critical software written in VB using ActiveX controls obtained from a dozen different vendors? I don't think so.

    Even as basic a component as the standard C library can't be trusted. Circa 1998 we had our product, shipping for four years, suddenly develop a very obscure bug. It turned out that the vendor's C library had a faulty implementation of strcmp. It was optimized in an oh-so-clever way that was intended to insure that as much of the comparison as possible was made four bytes at a time, with bunches of special cases for various string lengths and memory alignments. It had worked properly until some code changes put the strings to be compared at different memory locations than they had formerly been, and then under some particular cases if the non-matching characters happened to be a certain memory locations modulo 4, strcmp would return -1 when it should have been returning +1. I reported it to the vendor, but we had to ship--and so, well, I wrote my own implementation of strcmp. A dead-simple implementation that did the byte-by-byte comparison in the obvous way. And lived happily ever after.

    The vendor never did fix strcmp, by the way.

  48. It's shell scripting... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    We've been doing it for decades.

    What's needed is a decent standardised easy to code to data bus and yes, a standard data format. Like Unix stdio but network wide. There are too many proprietary competing systems at the moment.

    Cue xmlBlaster or other Message Oriented Middleware and Rosettanet/other data definition standards et al. Why hasn't it been happening? NIH, ignorance, laziness, narrow focus.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:It's shell scripting... by cheezit · · Score: 1

      Don't get me started. Just because you can put a short name on "it"---MOM or messaging or whatever---doesn't make the "product" solutions any good, and certainly not the no-brainer why-doesn't-everyone-do-this-they-must-be-stupid panacea you suggest.

      Local stdio is not the same as distributed systems programming. Managers might want it to be so, but it is not. If they want to pretend that it is, they go find some toolkit or framework that will allow them to keep pretending. And then the resulting app sucks.

      This is an area where the generalizations of the problem are not yet useful. Transaction enqueue? Delivery exactly once? Guaranteed message ordering? Compensating messages? Every "framework" implementation compromises some critical function, or provides an implementation that will kill your performance if you use it.

      --
      Premature optimization is the root of all evil
  49. MOD PARENT UP!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/m

  50. Feeling threatened? by divisionbyzero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll grant that much of this article is horse crap, but it's always disappointing to so see how vehement people become in their reactions when their livelihood is threatened. It's a shame because they are so busy defending themseles they can't take the time to find out if there is anything worthwhile being said. I bet 85% of the people responding haven't even read the article. Of course that's typical Slashdot...

    1. Re:Feeling threatened? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet 85% of the people responding haven't even read the article. Of course that's typical Slashdot...

      Sorry, dude, but I think you've committed a typographical error. I think you meant to type 96%. It's closer to the real number. Trust me.

    2. Re:Feeling threatened? by wrook · · Score: 2, Informative

      Heh heh... Funny thing is, I don't feel threatened. This is the same crap that has been around since I got my first industry job (~'92). Back then it was "software factories". Hell for all I know, they still call them "software factories". And I admit to not reading TFA. Why bother?

      I'll just sit and let those companies who think mixing and matching "components" is going to work, loudly go out of business. If I happen to be one of the casualties in that fallout, so much the better. It's not what I signed up for.

      We used to have a word for systems composed with off the self "components". It's called a "Stovepipe system". It ain't gunna work. And it's no fun to be in a company that thinks it is (been there, done that). So worse comes to worst, I'll end up writing free software and working as a waiter with RMS (although how he's going to get a job as a waiter, I'd like to know...)

      Life's too short to work for morons...

    3. Re:Feeling threatened? by GalacticCmdr · · Score: 1

      Read the article and it is very much typical Gartner crap. In order to justify their own existence they have to come out with ideas writ large. Not just what everyone else is talking about, but the "next big thing." Otherwise few people would pay for their warmed over ideas. There really is nothing new about what they are saying and many companies have been doing this for years.

      When Gartner actually manages a really new idea or spots a new tread - then that really will be something to behold.

      --
      Programming: Its not just a job - its an indenture.
  51. killing development projects by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Ok, im game, in concept. But if you kill off all your developers, who is going to code those resuable components?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  52. Ted Stevens says... by not+a+cylon · · Score: 0

    Software isn't a pile of components, it's just a bunch of *glue!*

    1. Re:Ted Stevens says... by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Well, what else would you use to hold the tubes together?

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  53. Other obvious response by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    Windows Vista?

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    1. Re:Other obvious response by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

      No, vista has been undergoing reverse creep - although it's baseline does seem to keep extending.

  54. Re-use when possible, re-code when sensible by CharonX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Re-use when possible, re-code when sensible - that should be the baseline for both managers and programmers.
    For programmers its simple to put into words - if you have programmed a function to resample colour images and now you need a function to resample black and white images, just use the colour image function.
    As for managers - if you discover you have three projects to manage the time shedule of section A, section B and section C - tell one of the teams to make the software generic enough to manage all kinds of time shedules (including those of sections A, B, C) and reassign the other two teams.

    But if, in the above image resampling example your function needs about twenty times as much time as a function specialized for B&W imaged would need and is used constantly, you should code a specialized function, if performance would take a too large hit.

    --
    +++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Out of Cheese Error +++ redo from start +++
    1. Re:Re-use when possible, re-code when sensible by mr_tenor · · Score: 1

      For programmers its simple to put into words - if you have programmed a function to resample colour images and now you need a function to resample black and white images, just use the colour image function.

      Simple to put into words. And obviously incorrect, if you know anything about perceptual colour theory :)
  55. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I vote for 3.

    functional programming will one day be the only way.

    but, somebody's gotta go write all those compilers ..... there's 10 years work for a lot of brains right there.

  56. I think you got that quote wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What the quote should have read is...

    "'You can improve productivity by 20%', Hoyle advised, 'by killing management consultants when you should: which is early in the lifecycle.'"

    1. Re:I think you got that quote wrong... by Laxitive · · Score: 1

      No, what it REALLY said was...

      *Brushes off dust from the paper*

      "'You can improve productivity by 20%', Hoyle advised, 'by killing time with management consultants when you should: which is early in the lifecycle.'"

      Sorry, had to do it.

  57. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

    You write "int STM x=5;" and then one thread can do "atomic {x+=1;}" and another does "atomic {...;x-=1;...}" and the runtime+compiler magically make the atomic blocks execute atomically. This is different from Java synchronization blocks because these can be executed optimistically in parallel and because they never result in deadlock.

    Why would you want to use two threads for something trivial like that?

  58. CPAN is components by helixcode123 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think the the basic idea of using tried-and-true-and-robust components is a good one.
    It's why I prefer coding my projects in Perl. The components available from CPAN make
    practically any task quick to develop and robust.

    --

    In a band? Use WheresTheGig for free.

  59. As much as I hate Gartner by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I have to agree with this. Well most of it in the terms of proper process engineering and planning and using existing code.

    My comment is going to sound windows centric but its common in the bussiness world. The reason Java is so popular is not because its a great language that is cross platform but because the java api's in javadocs are huge. There is a method for about anything you can think of. MS also advertises dont code it, include it with teh saying we develop the code so you dont have too.

    VB is a very rich environment with alot of tools for very rapid rad. Yes the language is not too hot before vb.net took over but it saves alot of money with development time.

    Development is expensive and error prone and using code can save development time and offer great integration with the platform your on. Linux is finally catching up in this area and a code rewrite is like a blueprint rewrite for a big housing development firm. Its expensive and slight modifications to an existing blueprint is much cheaper and less error prone since all teh bugs have been worked out.

    Also I do disagree with the last paragraph saying you should kill projects. Good planning proper mrp and ROI with process engineering can eliminate such dead weight before they exist. Anything with more than a 3 year timeframe needs to not be developed.

    Also for those who hate engineering being lost it is not being lost at all. More likely MVC and process engineering is what is needed and not computer science for 90% of real world problems. Schools need to teach more project management and planning and less calculus for students who want to be professional programmers.

  60. "...delivering excellence..." by DrCode · · Score: 1

    Wow, I smell a new Dilbert strip in the making (although it's probably already been done).

    Next time I dine out, I won't ask for chicken or fish or a salad, but, instead, a "big serving of excellence".

  61. Version Lock by tsotha · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This component crap has been an absolute disaster everywhere I've seen it tried, especially when you go with more than one vendor. Most applications are tied to an operating system version, language version, and database version(which is, in itself, tied to an OS and version).

    We've been trying to maintain a product developed in-house over the last decade or so. Wouldn't it make sense to buy a GUI toolkit, they thought, so we can concentrate on our core competency? Sure, except we had to stay on Solaris 8 when everybody else was using Solaris 9, and then 10. The company that provided the toolkit got sold a couple of times, and is now part of some consulting outfit you've never heard of. They have two guys in Bombay trying to port it to newer platform versions, but they don't really test it, so we've had to take on that additional burden. Without the source code. Sometimes they're busy working on other stuff, so they don't get to our complaints for weeks. We're terrified they'll go out of business before we're able to do a rewrite.

    Of course, Oracle stopped concentrating on the Solaris 8 drivers, so when we called for support all we ever heard was "upgrade to Solaris x and install the newest version". Would that solve the problem? Who knows? We can't do it anyway because of the GUI toolkit.

    Now we want to move that product to Linux, but the GUI tool in question doesn't work on Linux at all. They're trying to get it working on RHEL 3, while we've just moved our other tools to RHEL 4.

    You wan't to make a brittle tool and take the blame when the enterprise can't upgrade the desktop OS because a key component vendor just went out of business? By all means, knock yourself out. You can commiserate with one of our groups that's still running Java 1.1 because a piece they bought from a now-bankrupt vendor won't run on a later version. The more third party vendors you have, the worse it gets, too. You can get circular dependencies that prevent you from upgrading anything without a total rewrite.

    Me? I'm not writing everything myself, but I use OSS whenever I can. After the number of times we've been burned in recent years, if you work for my company you'd better have a damn good reason to bring in third-party vendors. We're pretty much down to Java and Oracle as the only easy sells for new projects.

    1. Re:Version Lock by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      It annoys developers too because they are wasting mindshare on some stupid component when they could be improving their skills in whatever language they are working in.

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
    2. Re:Version Lock by khallow · · Score: 1

      I can sympathize with that since a good part of one of my jobs was playing tinkertoys with a bunch of web-based XML components (one of those 2000-era "we must do something with XML" things). But developers aren't working merely to improve their skills. They have to provide value at some point. And sometimes it is more effective to do so via components that already solve the problem than to code a new solution that might not.

    3. Re:Version Lock by rainmayun · · Score: 1

      You've made a compelling argument, but more so against closed-source development than against component based architectures. Every scenario you described would at least be addressible if the components were OSS.

    4. Re:Version Lock by leabre · · Score: 1

      I've learned long ago: You're product is only as reliable as your least reliable 3rd party, and you can only move as fast as your slowest 3rd party.

      If you're company depends on your IT product. If you're company is a bank or something not IT related than maybe using multiple 3rd parties make sense.

      Have you ever tried to get a 3rd party networking toolkit, AI library, PDF generator, business intelligence agent, fax server, grids, image processing, charting, digramming, xml processing, voice recognition, and some others to all hamronize in one product? Now, what happens when the OS flips a version (such as XP->Vista) and then just a few of those require an update to function properly? What happens when a new platform releases (such as .NET to .NEXT as did ActiveX to .NET) and vendors never update? Problem problems problems.

      I'm glad I've only worked places where the 3rd party dependancy is absolutely minimal and in most cases absent. The most successful projects I've been on are where the majority of the various technologies (as mentioned above) were done in-house and not contracted out to a 3rd party. But, they have their place. A visul Grid component for example is useful because its a decent enough abstraction but most other things are too important if the product is the blood of the company.

      Thanks,
      Leabre

    5. Re:Version Lock by Sax+Maniac · · Score: 1

      Right. We use bits of third-party propietary software, but now we always get a source license. We've gotten burned in the past by buying components in binary form.

      --
      I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
    6. Re:Version Lock by tsotha · · Score: 1

      That's true. As long as it's all for internal company use, OSS is really no different than code written by an employee that has since move on. Except it doesn't cost anything.

    7. Re:Version Lock by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      I agree. I try to keep a 90:10 ratio at work, 90% production and 10% selfish. That 10% seems to make it all worth it. I have kids and have been at this for 10+ years and don't have time or the desire to code at home.

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
    8. Re:Version Lock by secondhand_Buddah · · Score: 1

      Components are not crap. Its really about how technology is implemented, and in this cycle, where components fit into the process. For instance if I want my app to send email, I am not going to re-implement SMTP, I would rather use an SMTP component that has been fully developed. for the rest, code re-use is sufficient.
      Components really come to the fore, where bulk-reuse can be implemented. For instance, I wrote an app last year that needed a CAD interface. I bought a CAD component for +- US$ 150. For the rest of the app It was custom code. The app would not have come into existance without the CAD component, because it was not worth the cost for the owner of the app to pay for the full development of a full CAD interface.
      I am primarily a Delphi developer. Having used Delphi for more than 10 years, I can honestly say that the principal of component reuse does work. Delphi has a vey mature component library available for it (over 10 years worth).
      Where things fall down, are, that many managers dont really understand what a component model is, and consequently most programmers are not encouraged to use components and so never really learn how to program using the component based model.
      Components are the core of RAD developement, and RAD does work. It is a proven model, although often frowned upon by the purists.

      --
      Participatory Governance : The only feasible option for a real democracy, where everyone really does have a say.
  62. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by ljw1004 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can put arbitrarily large blocks of code inside the atomic{...} blocks. I indicated as much with ellipses. You can also nest atomic blocks. Also an atomic block can contain the statement "retry()" which rolls it back.

    The STM machinery still needs to be able to roll-back out of an atomic block. This rules out certain code from appearing inside the atomic block, especially side-effecting code.

    All STM platforms allow code that manipulates "transactional" heap variables, i.e. ones whose side-effects are logged and rollbackable. In these systems the idea is to use STMs mainly for concurrent data-structures, eg. queues and hash tables and so on.

    Some platforms also allow side effects on transacted resources, e.g. a transacted filesystem or webserver or database.

    Other platforms also allow side-effects due to file I/O: they log the inputs (so as to resignal them in case of rollback) and buffer the outputs (the ouputs only commit to disk after the atomic block has completed).

  63. Thats what we do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats so 90s... its the component market place model (later called web services market place). But like every fad its value its higly exagerated

    We have a administrative software bussines that estarted with one big client, but have problems finding other big enought bussines so we cut the suite in parts and now we sell it with custom modules oriented to especific industries... one third of the sales are done by third party developers because all our interfaces are documented and designed for public extencion. we have done by request developer clinics for clients that want to integrate and extend themselves the custom sistems

    Its this news?

  64. Evolution Of The IT Market by broward · · Score: 1

    The IT Market can be considered, in gesalt, as being subject to the S-curve with the year 2000-2001 ( the Dot Com Crash ) as its inflection point...

    http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entry =evolution_of_the_it_market

    What does it mean, really? That coding is a low-value activity and perilous to your economic health over the long run.

  65. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

    OK, that makes more sense. It sounded like very low level concurrency from the way you described it.

  66. ineresting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  67. yes... by Hap76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because the reason lots of people's jobs are threatened/are leaving is because people with no stake in and little knowledge of the processes that go into doing any variety of things are taken as gurus by people who also don't know better, and who care about nothing other than that they want to make money now and don't intend to be around when the crap hits the fan.

    These people enable the moronic management that has felled many a company. As long as there is money to be made in prolonging a problem, they will be there to help and to bill. The fact that there may be diamonds in the steaming piles of crap they continue to release does not justify their existence, nor any regard for their opinion.

  68. History question by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Over their lifespan, has the Gartner group been right more often than could be accounted for by chance?

    What are some examples of them being right?

    1. Re:History question by egjertse · · Score: 1

      Sure they have - it's called self-fulfilling prophecies. When Gartner says "X will be the next big thing!", every management drone on the planet runs out and implements X. Thus, Gartner's right!

    2. Re:History question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Over their lifespan, has the Gartner group been right more often than could be accounted for by chance?

      My guess would be less often. I remember some of their predictions about SCO and have my suspicions about whether they're paid to say things. And the sort of thing someone pays someone else to say isn't often true...

    3. Re:History question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And the sort of thing someone pays someone else to say isn't often true...

      One of the earliest things I taught my kids was that, when you see an ad on TV, the person speaking is being very well paid to say exactly those words. There is no necessary correspondence between their words and reality.

  69. Consultants like Gartner can eat me by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We are living a land where managers are rewarded for cutting jobs, then rewarded again for selling off units that are failing because they don't have anybody working for them.

    This is another picture of the ugly underside of a capital-driven economy. Management reacts to the behavior of a bunch of coked-up day traders and brokers who are shooting craps with other people's money. Because "The Market" likes it when jobs are cut, managers cut jobs. Any way they can dump a few more workers is good, they think.

    But the fact is, somebody's got to do the work. The managers certainly aren't going to do it because in the process of getting their MBA all they learned was that if you bought an 8-ball, and sold some to your friends after stepping on it a few times, you could get high for free. So now they're middle management and they don't know fuck-all about actually making something, or providing a service besides oral favors for their bosses.

    I know this is heresy in this day and age, but it really is worth the few hours it takes to read Das Kapital. Not that I want to see a Marxist system here (or anywhere, really), but it's worthwhile to know how capitalism looks when it starts to fall apart. And falling apart it is, make no mistake.

    Greed has brought us a bloody war in Iraq. It's brought us a middle class whose debt is increasing as they are told they're better off. But the only ones that are better off are the credit card companies.

    Come on, let's have a show of hands: Think back half a decade. Think about where you thought you'd be five-years' hence way back then. Have you made it? Are you better off now than you were? Chances are, that unless you are in the very highest levels of management, you are barely scraping by. Sure, you've got an Audi, and a hi-def TV to watch Dancin' with the Stars, and surely your $250 a month cellphone bill is evidence that you're making progress, right?

    This year, Americans now have a NEGATIVE savings rate. When it comes right down to it, that's the surest sign of the direction of an economy. How many of you pay off that credit card bill every month and put a little bit aside? Oh, and your retirement account at work doesn't count because that's going to disappear, Enron-style, long before you're able to use it.

    No, you really should take a few hours out of your sodden, beaten-down lives and read Das Kapital. And you there. You, shaking your head with the know-it-all smirk. Read it sober.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by ZTiger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      PopeRatzo, you might want to check up on what "capitalism" is befor lumping our failed corperate/government system in with it. Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market Our markets are not free and many of our corporations are little better than government offices.

    2. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask your grandmother if you are better off. If she is not around, ask someone else's grandmother. I think you will be surprised at the answer. The good old days were not as good as they seemed. My grandfather lived a very stereotypical middle class life (working as an engineer at Grumman in various suburbs of the Northeast in the 50's- 80's) and until the kids were out of the house and he finally killed his mortgage, he struggled.

      America's love of debt has little to do with how well off we are. Yeah we could live with our old 48" giant rear projection SDTV, but we have to keep up with the Jones and get a totally awesome new 50" plasma TV that we can hang from the wall and a surround system to go with it. Our "struggles" are caused by ourselves alone and our desires for the latest toys. No one is putting a gun to the middle class's head and saying "charge it or else." If most people just trimmed their grocery bill they would probably save enough money to pay off their credit cards and probably save their lives by avoiding diabetes and heart disease to boot!

      And by barely scraping by, if you mean that you have a big honking SUV you can hardly afford to put gas in, a 3000+ sqft house you can hardly afford to heat, well then cry me a farking river. Adjust your life to live below your means, and everything will be fine, even though if (OMG!! NOES!!!) you have to live in a smaller house and throw out some of your useless crap.

    3. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

      Think back half a decade. Think about where you thought you'd be five-years' hence way back then. Have you made it?

      Yes.

      Are you better off now than you were?

      Yes.

      Chances are, that unless you are in the very highest levels of management, you are barely scraping by. Sure, you've got an Audi, and a hi-def TV to watch Dancin' with the Stars, and surely your $250 a month cellphone bill is evidence that you're making progress, right?

      I'm quite comfortable, I own my Dodge outright (though I'm close to having enough saved to buy an Acura and have low payments for 3 years), I don't have a hi-def TV, I hate Dancin' With the Stars, and my cell phone bill is only $50 per month.

      How many of you pay off that credit card bill every month and put a little bit aside?

      I do.

      This has nothing to do with capitalism, and everything to do with self-control and being content with the things you already have.

    4. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by sparkane · · Score: 1

      I'm financially ok too. I was "downsized" back in 2000 or so, and have struggled _during the recession_ to stay in the tech field, because I fell into it in 1998 and I like it better than almost anything else, as a career. And today, I work out of my own home, and I have 2 clients, so if one tells me to take a hike I've still got some security. And I'm mostly debt-free, from having lived with family for the last several years while making ends meet.

      However, I don't think your response addresses his point, which was statistical. The impression I have is that most people do carry a large debt load, and are not saving. And self-discipline of the citizenry notwithstanding, his broad points about our type of capitalism are valid: our capitalism doesn't promote discipline, but something closer to wanton consumption. This indicates that it's not just the citizenry that isn't disciplined, it's the companies too. And while I'm not an expert on Das Kapital, I think it's arguable that this is a normal way of things for "capitalism" which IIRC by nature isn't supposed to discipline itself, but devour as much as it can for the sake of profit.

    5. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by khallow · · Score: 1

      And while I'm not an expert on Das Kapital, I think it's arguable that this is a normal way of things for "capitalism" which IIRC by nature isn't supposed to discipline itself, but devour as much as it can for the sake of profit.

      Das Kapital isn't about capitalism but Karl Marx's opinion of capitalism.
    6. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by khallow · · Score: 1

      This year, Americans now have a NEGATIVE savings rate.

      If you're using the standard definition of "savings", federal debt is counted as negative savings while assets like houses or stock investments are not. It doesn't provide a good view of actual savings in the US. However, looking at debt loads per capita compared to assets per capita implies someone is saving/investing money. Might turn out to be the richest 1%, but there's net increase in wealth. Later on, the value of those assets (relatively to the debts) may collapse, but it hasn't happened yet.

      No, you really should take a few hours out of your sodden, beaten-down lives and read Das Kapital. And you there. You, shaking your head with the know-it-all smirk. Read it sober.

      While I second this recommendation, we should keep in mind that the rationalizations provided therein were used by ideological movements of the last century to kill tens of millions of people and enslave more than a billion people. It's far from a cureall. Capitalism frankly has done more to improve the human condition despite its flaws.
    7. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      But the only ones that are better off are the credit card companies.

      Especially since last year when the CC companies bought themselves a law making CC debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

      They tried to say that most people were loading up on boats, jewelry and other luxuries on their CCs and hitting the court to dump the CC debt and that nearly no bankruptcies were a result of medical or other debt.

      In fact, people like to pay their doctors and hospitals for saving their lives, so they were easily persuaded to put all the medical debt on CCs. So the CC companies were lying through their teeth when they said CC debt was only small part of the reason for bankruptcies.

      Consequently, bankruptcy, instead of being, as intended, a chance for a second start, has now become a meaningless exercise in paperwork, because you'll come out with nearly all the debt you went in with.

      If the CC companies are being as sorely abused as they say, why aren't any of them going out of business?

    8. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by msuzio · · Score: 1

      > "Think about where you thought you'd be five-years' hence way back then. Have you made it? Are you better off now than you were?"

      Yes, I am. But then again, I'm not a moron and I don't run up credit card debt. I'm no fan of unbridled capitalism either, but I also think some of this starts at the lowest level with people (as Marx put it) throwing off their chains and pushing back. No amount of advertising or social pressure should make us consume when we do not need to. A more sane mode of living is possible.

      I'm not talking eating granola and living out of your VW minivan. I have a very good job, I made a very good salary, and I live in a nice house (but not a house any bigger than I can justify, even if I can afford it according to what my mortgage guy says when he tries to sell me on the idea of moving). I just also save and invest and make myself think twice before I blow my money on anything that I can't really justify. I haven't had any credit card debt in over 7 years, and I've saved and put 401K money away that whole time too.

      So, no, I don't blame "The Man". That means denying that I have control over my future, and I can't really do that. "The Man" deserves to have his ass kicked, and I'll grab a gun when the revolution starts, but since most other people are sitting it out, I just try to do what I can to protect me, and unlike most people I actually do vote to try to change things within the system that is supposed to protect all of us.

    9. Re:Consultants like Gartner can eat me by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The "Savings Rate" doesn't have anything to do with National Debt. If you check the Wikipedia entry on Savings Rate you find the following: Savings Rate is "...personal disposable income minus personal consumption expenditure. In other words, income that is not consumed by immediately buying goods and services is saved.

      In my original comment, I was referring of course to the Personal Savings Rate, and yes, in America we do indeed have a NEGATIVE Personal Savings Rate for the first time in our history.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  70. Idiot Management by grahamkg · · Score: 1
    Paul Graham has an excellent view of management at his site
    http://www.paulgraham.com/ in his essay Great Hackers
    http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html :

    Hackers like to work for people with high standards. But it's not enough just to be exacting. You have to insist on the right things. Which usually means that you have to be a hacker yourself. I've seen occasional articles about how to manage programmers. Really there should be two articles: one about what to do if you are yourself a programmer, and one about what to do if you're not. And the second could probably be condensed into two words: give up.,/i>

    --
    Graham
    Linux - Fast Pane Relief
  71. Garter credibility by wardk · · Score: 1

    zero here baby! just buy more windows licenses, sql server is the best of breed, windows 3.1 rocks, treat IT like a stock portfolio

    hilarious stuff, and people PAY them for it. gotta give them credit for that.

  72. Crank up the organ, monkeys... by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here we go, 500 comments about how management doesn't know anything.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Crank up the organ, monkeys... by patio11 · · Score: 1

      "Crank up the organ, monkeys" Does this sound dirty to anyone else?

    2. Re:Crank up the organ, monkeys... by rs232 · · Score: 1

      "Here we go, 500 comments about how management doesn't know anything"

      I once worked for a company who kept the records in one giant table under a unique four digit job number. It was coming near the end of the year and they ran out of numbers. The solution sugested by management was to reuse 'old' numbers. Later management couldn't understand why the monthly reports didn't add up.

      --
      davecb5620@gmail.com
    3. Re:Crank up the organ, monkeys... by Stokey · · Score: 0

      Ha ha... I was looking for a point in the thread where I could say something similar. Whenever the opportunity to bash management arises, the Slashdot troops march past in unison with their song reverberating in my ears.
      "Management know nothing, anyone who tries to predict the future is an idiot, only a moron would try to change the way I work because I know best, some MBA holding tard is the reason I have to do crappy documentation".

      Ever been to see Wipro or TCS in operation? Do you know what a CMMi level 5 certified organisation actually looks like? Do you know what benefits have been driven? Do you know how hard it is to describe the concepts behind SOA to the Financial Director of a Fortune 500 company and why he should care? Would you understand the level of abstraction required to explain IT concepts in timeslots of 30 minutes to a man or woman with X thousand people under their wing, multi billion dollars of spend and regulations like Basel II, SOX, MiFid being forced on them by regulators?

      Their are of course a number of people who read slash who have been there, are there and are on their way there. For the rest who are put upon developers who run Linux on their toaster, bear in mind that the oil tanker which is your corporation takes time to steer, has many captains who want to go in different directions and is being buffetted at all times by tides and weather over which you have no control. At the very least, the Gartners of this world outline a number of possible courses to choose from, which believe me, is so much better than looking at a featureless ocean you would not believe.

      My rant is now over.

      --
      Natsu gusa-ya, Tsuwamono domo-ga, Yume no ato
    4. Re:Crank up the organ, monkeys... by Larch · · Score: 1

      If I have to know or understand those things then you're not doing your job properly.

      Most of the people are complaining about management not because they have to do documentation, but rather because they don't.

      The number one complaint about management is that they simply fail at their job title. We WANT better managers who actually know how to manage IT. Not managers who just read the latest Gartner crud and decide to restructure based on it or want us to throw everything we've done away to jump on the latest buzzword.

      I hope the acronyms you churned out make you feel better in any case.
      Fact is, knowing how to talk in the language of your higher ups or exchange in buzzwords is only one aspect of your job, and does not automatically qualify you to effectively manage IT, or make good decisions for IT.

  73. Reality tells US the four "P"'s and three "C"'s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I could go on for pages, but I think you get the point."

    Yes "I" understand, but considering how many times I've heard the OP's complaint. I don't think "they do". Everyone wants Paperwork, Politics, and Process to be someone else Problem. Until the Consequences, Crash, around their Craniums.

  74. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're thinking about throwing Java out. It has the same problems with 'synchronisation' that C has with 'memory allocation'. You can't get it right all the time, it's too hard.

    Or maybe you're just a moron?

  75. Perfect PHB Logic. by twitter · · Score: 3, Funny

    kill development projects early, "and often," he said, "if your failure rate is high." You can improve productivity by 20%

    By killing all of my projects, I'll have a failure rate of 100% but I'll do it 20% faster. Awesome!

    Thanks, Gatner.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  76. Users will find a way by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    So while you're managing your application portfolio your user base will be writing applications with Access and Excel like they used to. All this does is push development off IT and on to the users. So instead of having all your apps with a common front end (web browser) and a common back end, like SQL Server, you'll be back to the linked spreadsheet house of cards and an application portfolio of who knows how many different vendors.

    Total insanity. But Gartner packages in terms managers like to hear. The higher ups like managing their portfolio, like thinking they're savvy investors. They want to think managing IT is easy. It's just like managing a stock portfolio. No hard decisions, no struggle to understand anything, the Easy Button for IT.

    Notice they're not trying to sell the IT department on this bullshit. Because they'd shred them like a shrimp at Bennihana's. That's another unfortunate trend I've seen. Bypassing the IT department and going right for the higher ups with pre-packed PR inspired, advertiser-controlled-media conventional wisdom.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  77. EA? by nephridium · · Score: 1

    Sounds exactly like one of those EA horror stories a while ago. Game companies develope for 'future mainstream' hardware so they develope on cutting edge tech, problem is they don't put too much effort into potential compatibility issues and focus more on the eye candy. Game companies are also notorious for working under 'creatively chaotic' conditions.

    I wonder how games will look like that are written by anal-retentive accountants.. ;)

    --


    And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
  78. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by ralphdaugherty · · Score: 1

    We're thinking about throwing Java out. It has the same problems with 'synchronisation' that C has with 'memory allocation'. You can't get it right all the time, it's too hard.

          Is there already something in mind if you do? Some kind of CASE tool with modelling that you mention?

      rd

  79. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by deKernel · · Score: 0

    All well and good when it comes to more cores except that most OS's don't let threads from a process wander around and run on other cores. Way to much overhead to get all the necesary process data out of cache layers to to be accessed by other cores.

  80. Not to scare you by RingDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But this type of IT organization is not limited to games. I work for a very successful business equipment solution company, and it used to be almost exactly as the GP described. I say Used To because the top brass finally realized that IT was blowing money like crazy. Now they have an 80% turn over rate in 2 years on the network side of the house, 30% on the apps side, budget cut backs, staffing cutbacks, and all round low moral. I recently wrapped up a pair of BSs in IT and Technology Management. I've been working hard to implement project management procedures, and get some kind of order in the shop, but my supervisor is content in code & fix mode, and my manager is 3 years from retirement and has no idea what IT Alignment is. And this has hardly been limited to this company, I have worked for enough organizations to know that this is the more common approach to IT, not the exception. And that is why I'm trying to move from Code Monkey (tm) and Project Management.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  81. Puh-lease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gartner is a joke. The only people I know who take them seriously are business weenies who don't know any better. I have been hearing this stuff aobut componetized software for years and it still isn't true.

  82. Reuse isn't bad (Gartner marketing aside...) by ndykman · · Score: 1

    You know, I think some commenters here are too eager to toss the baby with the bathwater here. Gartner endorses reuse, Gartner sucks, therefore, reuse sucks.

    Uh, no.

    You would be dumb to not ask what third party components, libraries and frameworks could help with your project. While is it really unlikely that you will just glue a bunch of stuff together, and volia, application, it's just as unlikely that there isn't some library, framework or application that you could reuse to make the application better, or easier to perform a certain task, etc.

    Also, reusable development is important; Sometimes, it's worth the effort to put in the work to make a part of system more flexible, more reusable. Sure, it's may not the most agile thing (just refactor, rewrite, and improve until, um...) but sometimes it is a win.

    I think it is better for programmers. It requires more training, more skill to do reusable programming than one-off systems. It's not like you can farm out the "glue code" to the cheapest bidder. I didn't read the details of the Gartner report, but reuse doesn't save you labor, allowing you to do that same with less (less skilled programmers, less programmers) it allows you to make the most of out the talent you have. That's why reuse matters.

  83. I love this crap... by tobe · · Score: 1

    How much can you invent that never existed before with components that already do...

    Some, granted... but nowhere near it all..

  84. The article isn't too far off the mark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a lot of us as IT professionals who got into this industry because we loved to code forget is that, unless you're working for a company whose product is software, coding is only a means to further the goals and maybe the profits of the business. I work for a big financial firm, where the IT groups exist mostly as a cost center. In this context, reducing new development and maximizing reuse of existing code is a Really Good Idea. Reuse is a difficult idea to turn into reality because of egos, lack of foresight, overextended resources, and numerous other roadblocks, but it is not impossible.

    While we have a dedicated reuse department, their output has been of limited utility. What I have found to be the best methodology is to *always* code with reuse in mind. So, when you are presented with problem X, don't just solve problem X, solve for the space which problem X inhabits. Create a contract between modules which allows multiple problem spaces which have inputs from the same universe of data to share that information in a way which is divorced from the business objects which provide that data. When the project is over, migrate those modules which have proven usefule to a separate project. The next project you work on can then use these modules and improve on them. And, of course, provide thorough and easy-to-read documentation for the modules so that others a) are more inclined to use your modules and b) don't sap your time with questions.

    I built a supplementary Java web framework using this method which is now the de facto standard for sites within my company. And, just in case anyone is wondering, it does not replace or overlap with Struts, the apache commons libraries, Spring, or any other available framework, and integrates with them nicely. It solves mostly for common business problems, and is extensible (via interfaces) so that hitherto unforseen problems can also be solved.

    Another major advantage of reusing code is the benefits it affords in terms of long term supportability of your applications. In a large IT department, support is one of the most time-consuming but critical functions, and the less differentiation there is between applications, the less knowledge there is to acquire and disseminate.

    I don't think Gartner is saying "Don't write new stuff! Everything you need can be bought!" They're saying "Be efficient!" which means, sometimes, taking a little bit longer to write one application so that future applications take less time, meaning quicker turnaround for business needs, which is the whole function of software development in most companies.

  85. What's old is new by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 2, Interesting
    (2) Message-passing. Academically it's embodied in the "pi calculus". In web terms it's embodied in the W3C "choreography" working draft. In practical terms it's embodied in Microsoft's Biztalk and in Ericcson's Erlang language and in Microsoft's new Robotics SDK. It's also a little reminiscent of "tuple-space" operating systems. The idea is that threads communicate by sending messages to each other. It's still possible to deadlock (e.g. if one thread waits for a message that will never come) but these errors seem more rare in practice. Also it's easier to analyse for this kind of problem at compile-time than it is with synchronization.
    This was the standard design paradigm where I worked in the 1980s (TRW Defense Systems Group). About the only difference is we were doing it with VAX VMS or UNIX processes communicating via IPC (VMS had it, it just took a little more work to implement). Hint #1: the trick to avoinding the deadlock you described is to not allow state coupling between threads. Hint #2: although rare, the deadlocks do occur and Murphy will make sure that they occur at the least opportune time.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
  86. If Gartner's Advice Really Worked... by Greyfox · · Score: 1
    They'd be making a killing doing stuff in the industry rather than making a killing telling other people how to do stuff. Everything I've ever heard out of them has been misguided at best and potentially harmful to your company at the worst. Fortunately smaller companies tend not to have the budget to pay for their nonsense and will forever be actually making things people want and running rings around the bigger companies rather than listening to half-assed advice about how your company should be mostly composed of managers instead of people who actually build products.

    Perhaps Gartner should do us all a favor and take a collective squat on the cosmic utensel.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:If Gartner's Advice Really Worked... by freedom_india · · Score: 1
      My managers listen to Gartner politely, smiling all the time. After the conf. is over and the lunch is dispensed with, they come laughing back at the amazing naivette of Gartner and go about their own way.

      Not all bosses and managers are like Dilbert show. Some are really good and am fortunate to have mine.

      Gartners have their role: amusement.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  87. oh yeah, Gartner is REALLY objective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gartner only tends to endorse the products, services, and philosophies of it's own customers.

    In general, I think it's a really bad idea to let business analysts dictate development methodologies.

    I once worked for a company that hired a Gartner analyst to prepare a report recommending a development methodology and architecture. The company didn't believe that it's own employees knew their own business better than anyone else. As the designated liason for this analyst I quickly reallized how incredibly CLUELESS this analyst was about the technologies he was supposed to be an EXPERT on. I ended up writing the entire report for him. He ended up handing that report, with minimal editting, to the executives, whom in turn handed it back to me as the "official corporate policy". I later found out that the company paid $50,000 to Gartner for the report that I wrote for the clueless Gartner "expert". That was more than half my annual salary at the time.

    Gartner is worthless!

  88. Now, the real work starts. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Agreed.

    More generally, I've recently been doing a lot of reading about the history of the U.S. financial markets in the mid to late-19th century, and there are a lot of parallels with recent history, although the timelines today are significantly compressed versus what they once then.

    Over and over again, after a major technological development, there exists a period of -- for lack of a better term (and why not, it's a good term) -- "irrational exuberance;" a bubble. And then the bubble will burst, which depending on the severity of the bubble can mean a selling panic, and then things will even out and start climbing again towards the next bubble. This happened with canals and canal bonds, and then again with railroads. (Actually railroad stocks bubbled and burst several times over; you think people would have learned the first few times.) I'm sure if you look, you can find other parallels after periods of revolutionary technological development.

    Computers and the internet, looked at as another form of infrastructure improvement (just as the canals were, and the internet, and to a less dramatic extent highways), followed the same pattern and created the same bubble and burst. Now that it's come and gone, we can start the real work, which is using the new technology to actually do productive work. The gains of the market during the bubble weren't real, but the ones made during the less dramatic climbs between bubbles are.

    The reasons for the bubbles are not really financial as much as psychological (if you can separate the two). They're driven, predominantly, by greed and non-rational thinking: people get blinded by the idea of returns and pour their money into something that can't possibly continue forever, and each time when it crashes, they act surprised, as if their situation was somewhat unique.

    The Dot-Com crash wasn't unique. Enron wasn't unique. Sure, the absolute values are bigger, because the economy is bigger than any time in the past, but the pain isn't new.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  89. Software is NOTHING like stocks by plehmuffin · · Score: 1
    managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios

    They fail to appreciate that The Defining Characteristic of software applications is that they interact with each other and other resources (employees,customers,etc) in complicated patterns

    Comparatively, stocks are just abstract financial instruments representing fractions of a companies value. They don't interact. They just sit there and keep representing their particular fraction of their particular company. The underlying companies MIGHT interact, but this is generally not the norm and rarely the most significant aspect of a stock.

  90. experienced programmers by porkThreeWays · · Score: 1

    I've always found that the best people to manage programmers are experienced programmers. They understand the importantce of revision tracking, documentation, etc, etc. They also understand getting actual code out the door. I think the most frustrating thing as a programmer is beaucracy for beaucracy sake. When people don't understand why you want revision tracking. Then you'll end up with revision tracking that probably isn't effective.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
  91. Oh, I see now! by buss_error · · Score: 1
    "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"'

    Because management input into process design is so illogical that taking a poor, innocent well working and debugged package of code and exposing it to such idiocy is utterly futile?

    According to Schindler (who does not 'drink the Kool-Aid'), Gartner urges managers to consider better process control and governance, managing 'application portfolios' much as they do stock portfolios. Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'"

    Who buys Gartner reports? Coders, or managers of coders that don't trust, don't like, and can't manage coders and are looking for a way to be "empowered"?

    My oh my, how fast a mystery is solved.

    That being said, I've not written any code for customer, vendor, employee, or other "people/places" type application master record management for more than five years. I got tired of doing that, and wrote it into a single, logical, flexable and optimal SQL (MySQL, MSSql, Oracle) back end and a PG for the front end. Insert lables, move fields around, activate and deactivate fields as needed, chop out the fat, and it's done.

    One of these days I plan to start a source forge project with the code, but I'm too busy fending off Gartner style management to have time.

    I've got a manager that so fsck'ing clueless right now... nevermind. I'm going to my happy place for a bit. Note to self: Never agree to work for a place that puts in "managers" for coders and sys admins that never coded and were never sys admins....

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  92. Competitiveness and Innovation come to mind... by lcllam · · Score: 1
    Why? Think of it as a pair of cross trainers versus your dedicated sprinting spikes. Cross trainers certainly get you around, but don't really do the job of a purpose-built vehicle. Business apps are exactly the same. Think of it: if everyone is running the 100 in 10s, and you do this 'industry best practice', where does that put you? Right smack in the middle of the pack running 10s, that's where. You'ld be competitive, but a leader? No way. Leaders go the extra mile and work to bring out their magic mojo. Please note: I'm not advocating one approach (integrating modular vs from-scratch development) over the other. Balance is still the key - use it when appropriate.

    All these consultants bandying their 'best practices only' approach make a fundamental assumption that processes can be lifted and plonked anywhere. This is an extremely narrow assertion, and not in any means all encompassing. Many unquantifiables such as culture or internal capabilities get in the way. To put it another way: Dell's logistics weren't based on observing and emulating WalMart's processes. They knew what their competitive edge was going to be, started from scratch and decided 'nah... we can do better'.

    IMO the modular approach is only good for generic backoffice stuff like accounts and inventory. But I doubt it'll help your company's 'special sauce' - you need radical approach and (suprise! suprise!) intelligence for this - it's useless except as a baseline from which to develop things from scratch. So: if I want to make sure my generic apps fulfill their generic roles, yes - I'd use modular software to try to do it, and get it done faster. BUT if I want to make a real difference in my apps, I'd certainly do it from scratch.

  93. Older than old is more like it... by OneInEveryCrowd · · Score: 1

    asm ??? notepad ??? I heard the same silly story in the late 70s when I was coding assembly on an IBM 360 mainframe and using punched cards. Some things never change, it might have been Gartner making those predictions too. :-)

  94. Very old story... by Gorimek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've heard for over 20 years that "soon" there won't be a need for programmers, since you will just be able to make applications by putting components together.

    This appeals to managers, since having programmers around is a pain. They're expensive, unreliable and act weird.

    It will of course never work in reality. Anything interesting enough to be worth doing will be hard enough to get right that you need an actual programmer for it. And programmers have been putting components together almost since the dawn of programming, it's just that some people don't know that.

  95. Producing Reports by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    '"not about programmer productivity," said [Gartner analyst] Hoyle during the keynote presentation, "but in assembling functionality from components"'

    That's the kind of stupid "surprisingly clever" gibberish Gartner sells to bosses around the world. Assembling functionality from components, or "code reuse" is programmer productivity. "Buy instead of build" is another 1980s "breakthru insight" that practically every programmer uses, whether their boss realizes it or not.

    Even C programming, which practically always calls an API, is assembling functionality from components. Unless you're programming in assembly without an OS, you're not "programming from scratch".

    The continuing thriving of Gartner and the survival of businesses that consume their drivel is more testimony to the irrationality of economics. Any rational system would have increased boss productivity long ago by dumping any who wasted any time learning to be clever from Gartner.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  96. Ok by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

    Gartner urges managers to consider better process control

    Which is why managers are lying rat fuck incompetent hairpieces.

    Part of this discipline is 'killing development projects early and often.'

    And firing everyone in order to take their paycheck, thereby destroying their career, education and home. Wouldn't have to cancel the project if you didn't approve it in the first place. There's cake in the conference room you lying asscrack molded-ass air-conditioned rancid crotch.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  97. Communication and coherence by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    1) Hire very clued people, only, and equip them appropriately; 2) Treat communications with the same cleverness as exceptionally good code 3) ???... 4) Profit !!!

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    1. Re:Communication and coherence by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Erk, forgot the line breaks. Do not include me in step 1) today. Coffee.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  98. Lego Man! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Lego-like building blocks, high-level-languages, and reuse have been promised over and over for three decades, perhaps going back to COBOL's birth. It is a vendor trick that keeps on trapping each new generation. It is like a turist stop which sells Aztek calendars, statue of liberty's, and eiffle towers (all "made in China"). Hooks 'em everytime.

  99. Dilbert by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    We need an "IT vendor-speak" version of Dilbert's Mission Statement Generator.

  100. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by dodobh · · Score: 1

    The 8080 actually.

    --
    I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  101. The Future by umbrellasd · · Score: 1

    And any day now, Architecture and Carpentry will become obsolete, replaced by manufactured home/office "assemblers". Such Assemblers will have Lego PhDs and all manufactured units will be made out of legos; and not any of that new Mindstorm crap or anything. Just the most basic collection of: 1x1, 2x1, 2x2, and 2x3 pieces, plus an infinite supply of the big green ground panels.

  102. Here we go again. by ThePhilips · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? Why would you need to?"

    Buhahahahhahahhahhahhahaahahahah!!!!! HERE THEY GO AGAIN!!!!!

    I'm writing software for 15 years. And I already lost count of how many times I was told that crap and that "tomorrow" I would be among unemployed, since even idiots would be able to create software using tomorrow's modular platforms. That tomorrow is yet to realize.

    I was working with asm/pascal 15 years ago - and were basically rewriting applications from scratch: for new platforms and for new performance requirements.

    I now work with C/C++ - and basically rewrite applications from scratch: for new platforms and for new performance requirements.

    What'd changed? NOTHING.

    Would the idiots ever learn? As computer industry develops and grows - so do requirements for computers. 15 years ago nobody expected to have affordable real-time 3D graphics or on-line simulation algorithms or real-time video encoding. Now we take that for granted. As old fart, of course, I cannot even imagine what would be capable computers in next 15 years - but all that would be possible because of abundance of cheap HW performance and I hope more intelligent software. Not because we would have such performance - but because I'm sure there is and would be ever growing demand for it.

    e.g. some AI guys might tomorrow implement autonomous OS which would be voice/etc controlled. So you would be able to plug your photo camera into computer, say "Grab all new photos" and (miracle!) it would do that. Then say "If there are more than N gigs of new photos burn me them on disk as photo album.". Etc. Voice recognition + intelligent interpretation of commands + AI personalization - are tasks not yet possible for computers both hardware-wise and software-wise. NOW. How well fit modern algorithms and applications for tasks in such environment? They are completely unfit. So when development would come to that point - we software developers would have to rewrite all the components and blocks to fit well into new platform/OS/etc to get most out of it. IOW, do not put your GCC aside just yet.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  103. So.. by Plutonite · · Score: 1

    who is this gartner person anyway, and why do you all hate the sombitch??

  104. Re:I do 'middleware', and I also do 'supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trying to avoid side-effects as in functional programming is a good start, for ANY task.

    Message passing is also nice, as it decouples components. There's not just pi-calc, but also Hoare's CSP. Both have languages built on top of them, and for message-passing in general there's stuff like Erlang.

  105. It's deja vu all over again Yogi .. by rs232 · · Score: 1

    Ten of of ten for stating the blindingly obvious, reuse your code. I would have never thought of that until I read it in Gartner. Reminds me of when CASE, OOP, Agile methods, rapid application development (RAD), Component Based Development (CBD) methodology, flavor of the month, methodology were all the rage.

    This kind of 'research' appeals to the CEO because it promises software development at no effort and using under trained and underpaid staff. IF the CEO wan't to know about software why don't he just go downstairs and ask his own people. Firms like Gartner remind me of theatre critics. They can describe how to do it, they just can't do it themselves.

    I once worked for a multinational 'consultancy' who advised fortune 500 companies on how to improve. Well their entire Intellectual Property consisted of a Win2000 network with all the records kept on PowerPoint documents. A bunch of shared folders and a template for naming the document ppp.ddd.uuu.nnn.ppt. That is project, department, user and docname. Dowstairs they kept the accounts on a vax and a bunch of company reports on scanned pdf files.

    What I couldn't figure out is how such ignorant people could advise anyone on anything. But then again I have worked in places where the department head sends his own software people on leave and then hires a 'consultant' to design something so he can present this to his boss and pretend he done it. Excuse me, I have to go upstairs as the CEO want's to read me stuff about 'agile methods' out of a magazine .

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  106. Good illustration... by Dobeln · · Score: 1

    ...of why present-day (post-)Marxists have mostly dumped the working class schtick and are now focusing on ethno-pimping and pointless language debates in English departments around the US.

    After all, "You have nothing to lose but your Audi, hi-def TV and your $250 a month cellphone bill" is not really a winning slogan.

    1. Re:Good illustration... by computational+super · · Score: 1

      hi-def TV to watch Dancin' with the Stars

      ...

      "You have nothing to lose but your Audi, hi-def TV and your $250 a month cellphone bill" is not really a winning slogan.

      On the other hand, "You have nothing to lose but 'Dancin' with the Stars'" might actually get my attention.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    2. Re:Good illustration... by Silverstrike · · Score: 2, Informative

      While your snarky tone is unmistakeable, you definately missed the GP's point.

      The audi is a lease
      The hi-def TV is on the credit line you opened at Best Buy
      And a $250 a month bill, is afterall a liability, not an assest.

      Read the damn book, he's right.

  107. read this then .. by rs232 · · Score: 1

    "I bet 85% of the people responding haven't even read the article"

    I stopped taking notice of Gartner and the like a long time ago ..

    "Linux is still not ready for widescale deployment on the desktop, according to analyst firm Gartner"

    "Would their respect for Gartner's advice change if they knew the firm is indirectly owned by dozens of big-money investors who control some of the same companies Gartner evaluates?"

    ".. the Gartner Group (Framingham, MA) estimates that the total cost of ownership (TCO) for a networked Windows 95 PC is $9784 a year .."

    "Gartner believes that most of the Linux shipments will eventually have illegal copies of Windows installed--a fact that makes Linux's seeming dominance of this market somewhat misleading,"

    was Re:Feeling threatened?

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  108. Why would you ever code an app from scratch again? by scottsk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are two lines of thought to answer "Why would you ever code an app from scratch again?" - one is simply that if you're doing something worthwhile and innovative, there IS NO OFF THE SHELF solution. If you can buy the solution, is your app doing anything that isn't already being done? The other is tying yourself to a vendor. I know anything from Gartner is designed to promote this, but in the real world, do you want your killer app at the mercy of a vendor who can drop support, go out of business, change the license model, etc - it's not a good business case to put your product at the mercy of third parties, especially now. (Especially with the quality of code in some instances. It takes less time to do it right yourself than buy-rather-than-build in some cases. Not all.)

  109. Examples.... by Hap76 · · Score: 1

    When has Gartner's advice actually helped a company (stay in business, or do better, I mean, not fire all their employees and go bankrupt)? How about management consultants in general?

    Funny, it seems like you have the wrong monkeys and the wrong tune.

  110. Why do people listen to Gartner? by paulxnuke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gartner has zero credibility (or less: they're a Microsoft publicity outlet with a sideline in clueless pronouncements that get taken seriously by clueless "analysts" and executives.)

    Building applications from components sounded good back when VB was getting started, before even management figured out that VB crapware built from 3rd party controls was big, slow, buggy/unfixable, and couldn't (by definition) do anything that hadn't been done before. With one exception (a function required by marketing but used by no one, so it didn't have to work perfectly) our every attempt to "leverage" 3rd party ActiveX controls has been a disaster that wound up consuming more time and effort than doing it right to begin with. The one bright side to my management's current infatuation with the preposterous U3 platform is that I've been able to formally ban ActiveX and most other code requiring registration.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of reusable components: the state of the art just doesn't make them practical for most uses beyond standard library level. Now that Gartner has spoken, I'm just waiting for some overpaid pinhead to substitute his judgement for mine again and create another fiasco I'll have to fix to save his bonus. I'm still recovering from the latest attempt at outsourcing, where we wound up discarding and rewriting most of an application in much less time than our contractors needed to hose it in the first place.

  111. heheh J2EEK! by Phantom+of+the+Opera · · Score: 1

    In 10 years of java (and other) programming I've never seen anything put such a damper on the joy of programming quite like the over-abstraction fad and J2EE.

    Anything that bills itself a "solution" without mentioning a _specific_ problem is a horse pucky Himalaya.

  112. from reading TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is just the reuse/component argument again. some people will read this as saying that you buy a bunch of third party components and wire them together; with the real problem being programmers with ego issues. now we will be pushed into developing with a lot of commercially licensed components that are making mutually conflicting assumptions, may be weakly documented, require lots of unforeseen glue to wire together, and you can't always fix when you have a problem in the components themselves. license nightmares, and "but i can't do that because thats done in some code i dont have" nightmares.

    what these guys don't seem to understand is that most projects ARE doing lots of "reuse" in the form of including open source libraries, and languages with EXTENSIVE runtime libraries (Java,.NET) and frameworks available. Java/.NET developers generally spend little time coding textbook algorithms, container classes, or implementing protocols. At best they are arguing for organizations that make lots of applications need to think about pushing a framework standard, and making domain specific (and well documented/supported) libraries available.

    Making that happen is no different from running any other good open source project; the library has to be well documented, promoted, responsive to feedback, decoupled from specific projects (decoupled in reality), and COMPETITIVE with other efforts. They are talking about creating domain specific open source efforts that succeed.

  113. the evil and useless gartner by sactoheath · · Score: 1

    i have yet to hear a single recommendation from gartner that was helpful. they seem to be making quite a killing on companies thinking they have all the answers...either that, or companies don't know how to implement the recommendations correctly. i'd love to see a good competitor to gartner, that spends more time actually fixing problems than developing 800 page PDF files with useless data and recommendations.

  114. Gartner Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'm a Gartner analyst, and also an anonymous coward. Some of the comments about Gartner in this reply string are just plain wrong. Gartner does not write vendor white papers for hire. But we know the vendors well because many vendors become Gartner clients. They talk to us to learn what their customers are saying and for help with their business strategy. We love to beat them up to make them better. That is one of the joys of the job.

    The advice that analysts are giving to IT management and business users is based on objective opinion, not paid advertising. Objectivity is the value that clients are buying from Gartner. If you think that a Gartner analyst is wrong, or biased, let them know, better yet, let your Gartner account rep know. The peer review culture at Gartner detects and eliminates bias as if it is a bad bacteria.

    We're very open to hear the experiences from users, especially outside the ones that vendors feed us as reference accounts. Our goal is to help organizations make the best decisions possible about technology purchases and use - and to help define architectures that will support the future. Are Gartner analysts always right? I hope not! We are encouraged to be edgy, not afraid to be wrong and not afraid to admit we are wrong. We don't tell your boss what to do. We give him or her an opinion and a framework in which to make a decision. Get on the phone with your boss during a Gartner inquiry call and add your opinion to the mix. The Gartner analyst is there to make sure that your organization isn't breathing too much of its own exhaust.

    One of the analysts mentioned in the lead article, Dale Veccio, has deep experience in linking legacy applications to modern ones. The other one mentioned, Matt Hoyle does not exist. The author of the article meant to write about Matt Hotle, another excellent analyst. Give Gartner a try. The worst it can do is to give you a different opinion to consider.

  115. My point... (late reply) by Dobeln · · Score: 1

    ...is you won't have that line of credit without significant income. Which you probably have, if you are an average first-worlder. And thus you enjoy lots of material and non-material amenities that 19:th century working stiffs just didn't have - making Marxism and similar ideologies a much less tempting prospect. (Hence creating incentives for discontented cafe-yabbering types to move their game elsewhere - I.e. race pimping and / or deconstructing Hamlet yet another time.)

    As an aside, a credit-based economy might have some of it's roots in imprudence in the general population, and it might bring risks of financial disorder and possible collapse, but it signifies wealth - something the author appears unable to grasp.