What is the point of this article, just to speculate on a bunch of stuff that people don't really know anything about?
These are the exact questions the courts will need to answer, and nobody has enough information (and certainly not more information than the courts will get) to have any sort of insight into this. If people just want a chat-room to discuss rumours, IRC is still available..
I should also mention that loading the debug version onto a tablet is actually impossible. All of the current top-end tablets and phones (iPad Air, Note 4, etc.) all crash when the uncompressed, unminified and uncombined files are transmitted to it. None of them can take it, except the Surface, if you consider that a tablet (I don't).
As a result, we've had to use emulators on machine with huge amounts of RAM and pray to God the error shows up in the emulator as well. Hopefully we can start taking advantage of Chrome's ability to link debug code to release soon.
I work on an enterprise Business Intelligence web application, and it is 5.0/5.4MB debug (compressed / uncompressed), and 1.6/3.4MB minified + release (compressed / uncompressed) payload. It's over 700 JavaScript files, 200+ images, lots of CSS etc etc (debug, obviously much of this is combined into 1 when built into release). While it's a massive huge first payload, it successfully loads on tablets and phones etc. as long as they have a decent connection (HSPDA+, LTE or WiFi).
So I suppose I would agree with you. This is about as small as we can realistically make it with the feature set we have, and it's still pretty huge, but it's also a very powerful web application, so this is expected.
My reaction is that I went to the page and clicked 'download', posted several times about all the issues I had, and finally was told the reason (thank you, you are right). And, instead of getting a message that this happened, I get an awful message. Furthermore, 'upgrading' isn't really possible the way I would want it to be (like it is on OSX and Windows).
Lastly, I've never, ever gotten a version of Windows or OSX that expired within a year and gave cryptic messages when trying to update, and also been unable to directly upgrade it.
All of these issues combined, in addition to the community often being sarcastic towards me, has indeed made me very angry about "Linux" as a whole.
Take a telling? Is that English?
If they don't support it, why was it the link I was brought to from their own home page a year ago? You can use the wayback machine to see it. I stand by everything I've said, and I've noticed you continue to dodge the fact that showing a end-user 404 errors when trying to update is wrong. Why didn't it just tell me exactly what you said?
Linux Mint 16 was obsolete early last year? It was released on November 13, 2013 (http://www.tecmint.com/linux-mint-16-installation-guide/). I have no idea what your point is. I installed it last year, then this year (1 year later) updates didn't work. I don't know any other OS which no longer supports updates after 1 year, let alone shows a '404' when this (if it ever) occurred. Do you still not get it? I don't know how else I can explain this to you. It's like talking to a 5 year old child who thinks he knows everything, except I assume (hope) you're older than that.
So when I installed Mint 16, by going to their page and getting it, I did it wrong? Good one. I don't really care, windows won, and now nobody because its all mobile. Linux has its uses, but not on a regular person's desktop.
A good analogy, which is funny because my car is manual. Linux Mint offers no way to upgrade in the UI, at all. Showing 404 errors to a user is not acceptable either.
It's not that I *can't* do it, obviously I did. But could my mother? The same person who's been using Windows 7, and Windows 8 successfully for years? She's never had to open a command line, a text editor to edit dist source files, and never had a problem outside of "where can I download this program."
I'm simply trying to convey to those who love Linux why it's not being adopted among the non-tech community, but all I get back is "you're stupid", or "it works fine for me you're an idiot", or "that's how it is." I just find it amazing that everyone is okay with Linux' lack of intuitiveness *outside of the tools*, and lack of UI standardization.
Not sure if you're stupid or retarded. Let me break it down for you:
- I installed Linux Mint 16 1 year ago, I had troubles installing it. Let's move past that though.
- A few days ago, about 1 year after installation, all updates stopped working with an error 404. Does this not seem wrong to you? Do I really have to continue past this? No professional software should ever give 404 errors to a user, and it shouldn't even happen to begin with.
- As such, I need to make the updates work. Things I could do include: opening a sources file with a text editor, upgrading the OS, replacing the OS
- I opted to 'upgrade' the OS, because I don't want to have to re-install everything. Is that not unreasonable?
Unlike most people on here, it seems, I have shit to do that doesn't involve having to deal with my OS every year. Thankfully with windows, I install it, and 6 years later it's STILL WORKING (I have not formatted my win7 desktop box in 6 years) and successfully getting updates, and when I buy a fancy new keyboard, "just works" with that too. Still don't get it?
I actually have Windows 8.1 on this same laptop which dual boots Linux Mint 17 (now). There are definitely issues with it, such as the charms being totally undiscoverable, the start menu being full-screen, etc. But it still retains all the things Windows is good at, such as being able to apply updates on 5+ year old OSes, being able to upgrade by simply pressing a button, drivers auto-installing when you plug something in, and problems trying to correct themselves (in addition to the ability to report).
I think re-installing an OS is a big deal, not because it's "hard" in the sense that you can't get the installer, moves the files around, etc., but because it's a pain in the ass, ESPECIALLY when I just did it a year ago. Many people still run Windows 7, and that's 6 years old! Everytime you update you have to re-install everything, re-configure whatever lost its settings, etc etc. It's unnecessary, and it should be required just because your OS is a year old and all the updates return 404...
It's not just that (this happens to me too though). If you read my comments, you'll see I had a very had time installing Linux Mint on my HP laptop. It would have been impossible for most users.
However, last week I booted into Linux Mint 16 again, and tried to run updates, and guess what? THEY ALL FAILED, with error '404' no less. Now, as a developer I know what that means, and I googled and found that basically the ubuntu servers had moved the files for updates because they're too old. Really? Linux Mint 16, and it's dependencies are too old? What the fuck. How does anyone think this is okay?
In the end I had to 'upgrade' to 17, which means you should wipe everything and re-install (this is also totally unacceptable). Instead I followed a guide to update which involved using sed -i on the command line (again, what the fuck?) and then doing apt-get upgrade and update. This mostly worked, except that Cinnamon no longer worked until I uninstalled and re-installed fglrx.
Now, really think about what I just wrote. A new Linux distribution gave me that much shit to install, then update, then upgrade. Does anyone honestly believe it's ready for the 'general' user?
I'm not talking about the fact that it has bugs / errors either, I'm talking about how it handles them. It never once gave me any indication on how to fix things, or try to fix them itself. It always came down to me googling and using technical tools to fix things. Does nobody else think this is unacceptable?
Because I don't trust the people who created it, especially with things like saved passwords etc (not that I use this feature anyways, but still).
I realize you can say the same thing about trusting Mozilla, or Google, but at least I know (mostly) where they stand and there is someone to answer for it. If some dude's app starts nosing through your shit there isn't much recourse.
This isn't clear from the summary or article, but the adblock offering on the Google play store (which you can find here: https://play.google.com/store/... -- WHY don't they have the link in the summary?!) is a BROWSER, not a plug-in (which I guess doesn't exist on Android Chrome anyways).
Can you *please* fix play services wake lock? Since the latest update my Nexus 5 is useless if I ever go into a bad service area and try to send a text or use the maps for several days. It's fucking a lot of people, and I'm seriously considering going back to iOS, because having your phone randomly run out of power in an hour is really, really annoying.
Please show me 1 laptop that has an issue installing Windows on it, and then I will buy your argument, because I don't believe you. Even MacBooks run Windows...
But thank you for proving my point: the Linux community is primarily filled with assholes.
I think the issue here is that SteamOS is designed to sort of "help Linux come to the desktop", since why would you install Steam on a server?
And those "minor annoyances" are the *exact* type of issues that makes people not want to use it on the desktop. I've posted several times before about attempting to install Linux Mint on my HP laptop so I'm not going to re-post all of it, but suffice to say it still won't suspend properly so I just use Windows the majority of time. Could I fix it with a lot of effort? Probably, but I don't have the time to be dicking around with such basic things.
Not surprisingly, the reaction of the "community" everytime I post things like this (look at my comment history) has been pretty negative. Apparently installing Linux on a laptop is "wrong."
I'm sure all of those things have effects too, but you can't deny if someone just stops eating food altogether, they're going to lose weight. If you seriously think an obese adult eating only 500 calories a day is not going to lose weight due to "other factors," you're insane.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is when you're on your death-bed will you think, "boy, I sure do feel guilty for viewing all those corporate websites and blocking the ads and thus, their potential revenue", or "boy, I sure do wish I had all that time back I spent watching ads, being distracted by ads, closing pop-ups."
For me, the only valuable resource in the entire universe is my time. And I will fight very hard to protect it.
Here in Canada, at least, if you want a Tesla there's a 5 month waiting period to get it. That's how far back the order queue is. There's definitely massive demand, so at least there's that.
I'm not new, did you see my ID? And "data" doesn't help me with my HP envy, now does it? Is my laptop, which I bought in a store, so "esoteric" that Linux just can't support my network driver (again, feel free to read my review on Linux Mint forums, or by all means grab the same model of HP envy and 'enjoy' it for yourself). Windows has had no issues with drivers for this model *except* multi-touch (thus I said, 80%).
This is the real problem with Linux. I come with a valid complaint that I had to do a bunch of shit including re-compiling my kernel in order to just get it to work on hardware where windows (including re-install) just works, and all I get is a bunch of snarky responses about how I'm a dumbass, about how I should look at the stats on Linux etc etc.
I don't give a shit about "how often Linux 'just works'", this is the second time Linux has personally given me shit when installing, and the response has been identical even when I just had questions: smart-asses like yourself spouting off nonsense about how my machine is wrong, how I'm just not smart enough to use Linux.
But it doesn't matter what I write really, you won't care, and people will keep using Windows for this reason. Until installation, drivers, updates (including OS updates) are as simple as windows (download, double-click) it just can't win.
That's weird because I've re-installed Windows twice on this laptop, and once on my Netbook, and in both cases it was put the CD in and 80% of things work, let windows update run and now 100% of things work.
Additionally, if it did not, fixing it is just inserting a factory CD or downloading drivers as you said, not re-compiling a kernel.....
He's not doing it wrong. Not even 6 months ago I installed Linux Mint on my HP envy laptop, and it took me 2 days to get it fully working. Why? Partially UEFI, partially bugs in the installer, and mainly no network driver (had to compile my own with a manual patch). This doesn't even include having to install new drivers to ensure it doesn't overheat, nor the fact that "suspend" still doesn't work.
You can read about my experience here http://forums.linuxmint.com/vi..., but quite frankly nobody cares (no replies....). Until it really is "insert CD and go" for ALL computers (is an HP laptop so weird??) then Linux will never be mainstream. Sorry.
The issue is people want different things. "Older" users who grew up on Macintosh, UNIX, Win 3.1 etc are used to menus being at the top, a central place for all applications, and the command line.
Much younger users grew up with "apps" and websites looking like apps, which is the hamburger menu (that's the real name) in the top-left, expanders, jQuery carousal, etc. What's natural to them isn't natural to you, and vice-versa.
In the end it's about sales, and "new and pretty" sells, and the changes aren't all that big of a leap for the younger crowd. It is what it is, adapter or die.
If there was an easy answer to this, then everyone would be doing this to watch watch mkv files (with.srt files where you have to choose between them), and other things (streaming from popcorn site or whatever).
I think this is a big gap in the market, but it's partially on purpose. Hardware makers don't want you to be able to watch downloaded media so easily...
What I do is have a laptop with HDMI out that I can easily stick next to the TV when required. It's not ideal, though.
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What is the point of this article, just to speculate on a bunch of stuff that people don't really know anything about?
These are the exact questions the courts will need to answer, and nobody has enough information (and certainly not more information than the courts will get) to have any sort of insight into this. If people just want a chat-room to discuss rumours, IRC is still available..
I guess we're all Pig-Pen then?
I should also mention that loading the debug version onto a tablet is actually impossible. All of the current top-end tablets and phones (iPad Air, Note 4, etc.) all crash when the uncompressed, unminified and uncombined files are transmitted to it. None of them can take it, except the Surface, if you consider that a tablet (I don't).
As a result, we've had to use emulators on machine with huge amounts of RAM and pray to God the error shows up in the emulator as well. Hopefully we can start taking advantage of Chrome's ability to link debug code to release soon.
I work on an enterprise Business Intelligence web application, and it is 5.0/5.4MB debug (compressed / uncompressed), and 1.6/3.4MB minified + release (compressed / uncompressed) payload. It's over 700 JavaScript files, 200+ images, lots of CSS etc etc (debug, obviously much of this is combined into 1 when built into release). While it's a massive huge first payload, it successfully loads on tablets and phones etc. as long as they have a decent connection (HSPDA+, LTE or WiFi).
So I suppose I would agree with you. This is about as small as we can realistically make it with the feature set we have, and it's still pretty huge, but it's also a very powerful web application, so this is expected.
My reaction is that I went to the page and clicked 'download', posted several times about all the issues I had, and finally was told the reason (thank you, you are right). And, instead of getting a message that this happened, I get an awful message. Furthermore, 'upgrading' isn't really possible the way I would want it to be (like it is on OSX and Windows).
Lastly, I've never, ever gotten a version of Windows or OSX that expired within a year and gave cryptic messages when trying to update, and also been unable to directly upgrade it.
All of these issues combined, in addition to the community often being sarcastic towards me, has indeed made me very angry about "Linux" as a whole.
Take a telling? Is that English? If they don't support it, why was it the link I was brought to from their own home page a year ago? You can use the wayback machine to see it. I stand by everything I've said, and I've noticed you continue to dodge the fact that showing a end-user 404 errors when trying to update is wrong. Why didn't it just tell me exactly what you said?
Linux Mint 16 was obsolete early last year? It was released on November 13, 2013 (http://www.tecmint.com/linux-mint-16-installation-guide/). I have no idea what your point is. I installed it last year, then this year (1 year later) updates didn't work. I don't know any other OS which no longer supports updates after 1 year, let alone shows a '404' when this (if it ever) occurred. Do you still not get it? I don't know how else I can explain this to you. It's like talking to a 5 year old child who thinks he knows everything, except I assume (hope) you're older than that.
So when I installed Mint 16, by going to their page and getting it, I did it wrong? Good one. I don't really care, windows won, and now nobody because its all mobile. Linux has its uses, but not on a regular person's desktop.
A good analogy, which is funny because my car is manual. Linux Mint offers no way to upgrade in the UI, at all. Showing 404 errors to a user is not acceptable either.
It's not that I *can't* do it, obviously I did. But could my mother? The same person who's been using Windows 7, and Windows 8 successfully for years? She's never had to open a command line, a text editor to edit dist source files, and never had a problem outside of "where can I download this program."
I'm simply trying to convey to those who love Linux why it's not being adopted among the non-tech community, but all I get back is "you're stupid", or "it works fine for me you're an idiot", or "that's how it is." I just find it amazing that everyone is okay with Linux' lack of intuitiveness *outside of the tools*, and lack of UI standardization.
Not sure if you're stupid or retarded. Let me break it down for you:
Unlike most people on here, it seems, I have shit to do that doesn't involve having to deal with my OS every year. Thankfully with windows, I install it, and 6 years later it's STILL WORKING (I have not formatted my win7 desktop box in 6 years) and successfully getting updates, and when I buy a fancy new keyboard, "just works" with that too. Still don't get it?
I actually have Windows 8.1 on this same laptop which dual boots Linux Mint 17 (now). There are definitely issues with it, such as the charms being totally undiscoverable, the start menu being full-screen, etc. But it still retains all the things Windows is good at, such as being able to apply updates on 5+ year old OSes, being able to upgrade by simply pressing a button, drivers auto-installing when you plug something in, and problems trying to correct themselves (in addition to the ability to report).
I think re-installing an OS is a big deal, not because it's "hard" in the sense that you can't get the installer, moves the files around, etc., but because it's a pain in the ass, ESPECIALLY when I just did it a year ago. Many people still run Windows 7, and that's 6 years old! Everytime you update you have to re-install everything, re-configure whatever lost its settings, etc etc. It's unnecessary, and it should be required just because your OS is a year old and all the updates return 404...
It's not just that (this happens to me too though). If you read my comments, you'll see I had a very had time installing Linux Mint on my HP laptop. It would have been impossible for most users.
However, last week I booted into Linux Mint 16 again, and tried to run updates, and guess what? THEY ALL FAILED, with error '404' no less. Now, as a developer I know what that means, and I googled and found that basically the ubuntu servers had moved the files for updates because they're too old. Really? Linux Mint 16, and it's dependencies are too old? What the fuck. How does anyone think this is okay?
In the end I had to 'upgrade' to 17, which means you should wipe everything and re-install (this is also totally unacceptable). Instead I followed a guide to update which involved using sed -i on the command line (again, what the fuck?) and then doing apt-get upgrade and update. This mostly worked, except that Cinnamon no longer worked until I uninstalled and re-installed fglrx.
Now, really think about what I just wrote. A new Linux distribution gave me that much shit to install, then update, then upgrade. Does anyone honestly believe it's ready for the 'general' user?
I'm not talking about the fact that it has bugs / errors either, I'm talking about how it handles them. It never once gave me any indication on how to fix things, or try to fix them itself. It always came down to me googling and using technical tools to fix things. Does nobody else think this is unacceptable?
Because I don't trust the people who created it, especially with things like saved passwords etc (not that I use this feature anyways, but still).
I realize you can say the same thing about trusting Mozilla, or Google, but at least I know (mostly) where they stand and there is someone to answer for it. If some dude's app starts nosing through your shit there isn't much recourse.
This isn't clear from the summary or article, but the adblock offering on the Google play store (which you can find here: https://play.google.com/store/... -- WHY don't they have the link in the summary?!) is a BROWSER, not a plug-in (which I guess doesn't exist on Android Chrome anyways).
I'm not sure I want a full browser.
Can you *please* fix play services wake lock? Since the latest update my Nexus 5 is useless if I ever go into a bad service area and try to send a text or use the maps for several days. It's fucking a lot of people, and I'm seriously considering going back to iOS, because having your phone randomly run out of power in an hour is really, really annoying.
Please show me 1 laptop that has an issue installing Windows on it, and then I will buy your argument, because I don't believe you. Even MacBooks run Windows...
But thank you for proving my point: the Linux community is primarily filled with assholes.
I think the issue here is that SteamOS is designed to sort of "help Linux come to the desktop", since why would you install Steam on a server?
And those "minor annoyances" are the *exact* type of issues that makes people not want to use it on the desktop. I've posted several times before about attempting to install Linux Mint on my HP laptop so I'm not going to re-post all of it, but suffice to say it still won't suspend properly so I just use Windows the majority of time. Could I fix it with a lot of effort? Probably, but I don't have the time to be dicking around with such basic things.
Not surprisingly, the reaction of the "community" everytime I post things like this (look at my comment history) has been pretty negative. Apparently installing Linux on a laptop is "wrong."
I'm sure all of those things have effects too, but you can't deny if someone just stops eating food altogether, they're going to lose weight. If you seriously think an obese adult eating only 500 calories a day is not going to lose weight due to "other factors," you're insane.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is when you're on your death-bed will you think, "boy, I sure do feel guilty for viewing all those corporate websites and blocking the ads and thus, their potential revenue", or "boy, I sure do wish I had all that time back I spent watching ads, being distracted by ads, closing pop-ups."
For me, the only valuable resource in the entire universe is my time. And I will fight very hard to protect it.
Here in Canada, at least, if you want a Tesla there's a 5 month waiting period to get it. That's how far back the order queue is. There's definitely massive demand, so at least there's that.
I'm not new, did you see my ID? And "data" doesn't help me with my HP envy, now does it? Is my laptop, which I bought in a store, so "esoteric" that Linux just can't support my network driver (again, feel free to read my review on Linux Mint forums, or by all means grab the same model of HP envy and 'enjoy' it for yourself). Windows has had no issues with drivers for this model *except* multi-touch (thus I said, 80%).
This is the real problem with Linux. I come with a valid complaint that I had to do a bunch of shit including re-compiling my kernel in order to just get it to work on hardware where windows (including re-install) just works, and all I get is a bunch of snarky responses about how I'm a dumbass, about how I should look at the stats on Linux etc etc.
I don't give a shit about "how often Linux 'just works'", this is the second time Linux has personally given me shit when installing, and the response has been identical even when I just had questions: smart-asses like yourself spouting off nonsense about how my machine is wrong, how I'm just not smart enough to use Linux.
But it doesn't matter what I write really, you won't care, and people will keep using Windows for this reason. Until installation, drivers, updates (including OS updates) are as simple as windows (download, double-click) it just can't win.
That's weird because I've re-installed Windows twice on this laptop, and once on my Netbook, and in both cases it was put the CD in and 80% of things work, let windows update run and now 100% of things work.
Additionally, if it did not, fixing it is just inserting a factory CD or downloading drivers as you said, not re-compiling a kernel.....
He's not doing it wrong. Not even 6 months ago I installed Linux Mint on my HP envy laptop, and it took me 2 days to get it fully working. Why? Partially UEFI, partially bugs in the installer, and mainly no network driver (had to compile my own with a manual patch). This doesn't even include having to install new drivers to ensure it doesn't overheat, nor the fact that "suspend" still doesn't work.
You can read about my experience here http://forums.linuxmint.com/vi..., but quite frankly nobody cares (no replies....). Until it really is "insert CD and go" for ALL computers (is an HP laptop so weird??) then Linux will never be mainstream. Sorry.
The issue is people want different things. "Older" users who grew up on Macintosh, UNIX, Win 3.1 etc are used to menus being at the top, a central place for all applications, and the command line.
Much younger users grew up with "apps" and websites looking like apps, which is the hamburger menu (that's the real name) in the top-left, expanders, jQuery carousal, etc. What's natural to them isn't natural to you, and vice-versa.
In the end it's about sales, and "new and pretty" sells, and the changes aren't all that big of a leap for the younger crowd. It is what it is, adapter or die.
If there was an easy answer to this, then everyone would be doing this to watch watch mkv files (with .srt files where you have to choose between them), and other things (streaming from popcorn site or whatever).
I think this is a big gap in the market, but it's partially on purpose. Hardware makers don't want you to be able to watch downloaded media so easily...
What I do is have a laptop with HDMI out that I can easily stick next to the TV when required. It's not ideal, though.