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Safari Passes the Acid2 Test
TigerX writes "The Mac web browser Safari has become the first browser to pass the Acid2 test. Acid2 is a CSS/HTML test suite put out by the Web Standards Project (WASP). Developer David Hyatt had been working on the project for the past few weeks. Details can be found at his blog. The patched Safari is not yet avaliable for public consumption. It is unknown when the patches will appear in a public version of Safari."
Nice to see some big companies care about standards!
If I pass a test, but don't hand it in, should I still get an A?
Will the patches appear in Konqueror (KHTML)?
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
So, uh, Safari doesn't actually pass the Acid2 test yet, but it might at some point in the future after they've finished making sure that the proposed fixes don't break anything else?
Well, anyway, good for the dev in question. Will he be contributing his code back to the KHTML project, or are Apple going to try and keep this proprietary?
It looks like he's actually fixing the bugs, and not just adding some lame hack to make it show up right - nice!
;)
I hope these fixes trickle back down to KHTML soon. In time for KDE 3.5 would be great.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
So... the test was designed to see if a browser can use some weird code that most web designers would never use, and could (in this case) easily be done with an image tag? I don't see the point.
when the webcore code is put up then hopefully its in a form which would make it easy to reintigrate back into khtml.
It will be nice to have standards complient rendering on OS X and linux .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Which does point out the problem with tests like Acid2, which really don't resemble any code in the wild that anyone has ever used. What you end up with is browsers that are brilliant at rendering completely pathological corner cases, but only at the cost of changing some other well-thought-out-but-not-standardised. behaviour.
Now, I admit that this is purely hypothetical, but surely a better guide to browser usability is how well it renders the morass of dodgy XML/HTML that gets sent to it every single day.
Optimise for corner cases, and it possible that all you'll get are really well rendered corner cases.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
It should also be noted that all of the fixes done on the Safari KHTML codebase will eventually work their way back to Konqueror proper, meaning that GNU/Linux will benefit directly from this. *smiles* Thanks, Apple.
"To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
I'm glad to see it passed...so many browsers today fall in with the wrong crowd. The media is ruinung their minds; it makes them think that doing drugs like acid is okay. I salute David Hyatt for having the care and concern to watch out for these poor directionless browsers...he's their only hope.
...sorry, I couldn't resist.
Why would Apple donate any code to Konquerer?
I'm testing the Safari Acid now...
Look over there! A pink wildebeest mating with a green giraffe! A blue moongoose mounting a purple elephant! Is that a lion under the zebra? Heavenly stripes galore!
Trippy,
Letter
Which version of Safari are we talking about? The current release version w/ patches or the Tiger rev that's on its way to me as I post this?
WTF is with the acid2 test ?
Since Safari has nothing to do with Firefox, Mozilla, or the Gecko HTML engine, being instead based upon the KHTML engine from KDE, I would say "When can we expect the code to flow out and make Firefox/Mozilla pass the Acid2 test? Never."
www.eFax.com are spammers
It won't apear in Firefox but it will more than likely end up in Konqueror (safari is built on top of khtml)
I didn't know there was a contractual relationship with iTunes the software. You shouldn't need to sign up for the music store just to use the iTunes program.
WASP? Nice try. Deal with the fact that your acronym is the non-cool sounding WESP.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
I tried this in Opera 8 beta, and it seems to render correctly (FF on the other hand makes a pile of cr*p out of it)
Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!
Now if only it would play a CD without forcing me to enter a contractual relationship with iTunes (which I am not interested in doing) I'd be less disappointed in it.
You're aware you had to enter into a similar contract to like...boot the Mac? Remember that thing you clicked through right before it asked for your name? You know, with the bouncing blue thing?
Run the test in Firefox (which fails) but then just for a laugh run it in IE and see how miserably it fails. It can't even do the comment properly...
Let's hope Longhorn will be delayed even longer to sort out this problem
The term "acid test" dates back to the freaking gold rush days when they would use nitric acid to test for gold.
Probably NEVER for Mozilla, because Safari uses KHTML, not Gecko. I wouldn't expect the patches to flow into the linux kernal, either.
You know that MS is hard at work readying Internet Explorer 7 to pass this test... heh.
I was playing with JavaScript the other day and found that on Safari you cannot change the table cell text by setting style.color property (because it does not exist) while it works great on Firefox. Another example is the toFixed() method of numbers. These little inconsistencies drive me nuts every time I try to do anything with JS, especially because there is very little authoritative info on the web about it. I find that 97% of my time trying to do something in JS is occupied researching incompatibilities. Does this news mean that we're going to see more consistency in JavaScript across browsers?
Change the entry "when you insert a music CD open iTunes" to your favourite app. Bob's your uncle.
Good luck finding something better than itunes by the way.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
JIC anybody is interested FF 1.03 fails the test...
Might need a few more months, probably 1.1 will fix that action up.
Plus he posted the patches to KHTML on his blog, so Konqueror should be passing it too pretty soon.
I thought WASP was "White Anglo Saxxon Protestant" or "We Are Sexual Perverts", but where the hell is the "A" in "Web Standards Project"?????
First they should learn how to spell IMO
=D
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
"so it would be great if they pay back."
Could you possibly be more pathetic?
Apple gives more to open source than just about any other commercial company out there. Why don't you spend a little time learning all the stuff Apple gives to the open source world and less time embarrassing yourself here on Slashdot.
Fucking dunce.
Turn off the iTunes actions for audio CD insertion events in System Preferences, load up your favourite Mac audio player and listen to your hearts content. Not exactly rocket science.
The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.
And if that doesn't make you happy, you can always create some new ones.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Just do it. Everyone else is.
It'll make you feel better.
...that when they saw the headline thought...Apple...Steve Jobs...Acid2...
"Hey looks like theyre back to their 70s roots!"
The patches are actually to WebKit, which is the actual GUI component that renders the HTML. Both browsers (Safari and Safari RSS) actually use the same rendering component IIRC. As does any other of the zillion of apps on the system that embeds the webkit framework to render HTML.
Of course, the actual changes are in neither version yet. They're still in the development version. We'll have to wait for some apple updates to see the changes.
Me? I'm more interested as a programmer in getting the documentation for the cool new features in the latest version of WekKit that's just been released (and described further down in the blog.)
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
Apple yesterday patented "a method to parse a URL and display a corresponding premade JPEG file on a match". ;-)
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Yeah, I had my five year old click through that.
BrowserCam does a pretty nice job of showing how funky this page can be rendered by several browsers. I had 20 screenshots for different versions of IE, Opera, Firefox, Mozilla, and Konqueror in a relatively short period of time.
You can also play a CD from the Finder without agreeing to the iTunes license. Open the CD icon and the tracks are displayed as AIFF files, which can be copied to the HD or opened in any app capable of playing them.
Optimise for corner cases, and it possible that all you'll get are really well rendered corner cases.
In fact getting the corners rendered correctly was one of the cases that he had to fix.
I submitted a request to make Safari Acid2 Compliant a while back - its a good feeling when a request you submitted is fulfilled :) (of course, I have no idea if they actually even read my request, but I'd like to think that they did :P)
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
And i am not implying any wrong doing i am infact quite impresed and just a bit impatiant as i would like to enjoy these enhancments asap.
You have the source to Konqueror, you have the patches, you have a compiler, what else do you need?
Yes, part of Acid2 is about testing whether browsers handle invalid CSS according to the standards.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
Transparent PNGs -- The eyes are encoded as transparent PNGs.
The object element -- The eyes of the face are attached to an object element. Being able to use object (which can have alternative content) is one of the oldest requests from web designers.
Absolute, relative and fixed positioning -- Being able to position elements accurately is important for advanced page layouts.
Box model -- The original Acid test focused on the CSS box model. Acid2 continues in this fine tradition by testing 'height', 'width', 'max-width', 'min-width', 'max-height' and 'min-height'.
CSS tables -- There is nothing wrong with table layouts. It is a powerful layout model which makes sense on bigger screens. However, the table markup is troublesome as it ties the content to these screens. Therefore, being able to specify table layouts in CSS is important.
Margins -- CSS defines accurate algorithms for how margins around elements should be calculated.
Generated content -- The ability to add decorations and annotations to Web pages without modifying the markup has long been requested by authors.
CSS parsing -- Acid2 includes a number of illegal CSS statements that should be ignored by a compliant browser.
Paint order -- We test that overlapping content is painted in the right order. This is not a feature in itself, but a requirement for other features to work correctly.
Line heights -- The Acid2 test checks a few key parts of the CSS inline box model, upon which any standards-compliant Web page depends.
Hovering effects -- One of the elements in the face changes color when you hover over it. Which one?
dude.. it is an eula for the music store.just don't use that.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
If you had RTFA, you would have noticed that this was intentional. A standards-compliant browser should ignore invalid CSS.
This is to test browser CSS forward-compatible error parsing rules. If a browser fails to skip these lines it fails the test.
I sure hope other browsers also will pass the test soon, but it should'nt be a problem now that all the details on how to do it is all spread out.
Bits of News Giving you the latest bits.
Of course it has errors, that is the point. If you read up on the test (of course we wouldn't expect you to actually do that before posting your comment), the CSS code has errors on purpose. This is to test the error handling capabilities of the browsers as they attempt to render the code. The CSS2 definitions state exactly how bad code should be treated, and apparently the new Safari does exactly what it is supposed to, both with good and bad CSS-2.
Well, I can't exactly blame you for trying to let everyone know that you've done a drug before. I did the same thing when I was 14.
Trying to make sure everyone knows that you're in the IN crowd - that you know what it's like to get HIGH. (well, obviously not on Acid if that's what you think it's like, though.)
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Holy lords, how many times does this have to get posted and replied to?
Its mentioned *ON* the page - it has to be non-valid so that they can test the browser's handling OF non-valid code according to the standard.
R... T... F... Page.
This page states that:
"Acid2 includes a number of illegal CSS statements that should be ignored by a compliant browser."
Yeah, the WaSP page said that's not only OK, its part of the test.
If you blog it...
Indeed. But the Acid test applies to handling of error conditions as well.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Says hello world! and a error on the page.
However, it does have pretty colours and looks a bit psychadelic, so maybe it did pass the acid test after all?
FYI, the original acid test with the Grateful Dead and Ken Kesey
The Fillmore Acid Test Fillmore Auditorium, San Francisco, CA January 8, 1966
1. Stage Chaos/More Power Rap 2. King Bee 3. I'm A Hog For You Baby 4. Caution: Do Not Step On Tracks > 5. Death Don't Have No Mercy 6. Star Spangled Banner / closing remarks
The Sound City Acid Test 363 6th Street, San Francisco, CA January 29, 1966
7. Ken Kesey interviewed by Frank Fey 8. Ken Babbs and harmonica 9. Take Two: Ken Kesey 10. Bull 11. Peggy The Pistol 12. One-way Ticket 13. Bells And Fairies 14. Levitation 15. Trip X 16. The End
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
The CSS standard specifies what the browser is supposed to do when it encounters errors in a style sheet. Those errors are there intentionally so that the browser's error handling can be tested.
Lame attempt at being funny. Try harder next time.
If you were dumb enough to submit the registration and/or run software update on a not-yet-released OS, what did you expect?
AFAIK, some of those are purposeful and some could be mishaps in the CSS validator. Check out Acid2: the guided tour to find out about it.
So not even the validator can pass the acid2 test.
They should fix this in the next patch.
That's the point..
It specifically says in the Acid2 test description that they throw in dubious code that the browser should ignore (it shouldn't render garbage), so the acid test does indeed include nonstandard CSS.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
A lot of their changes make no sense to merge. They do lots of things to ahve the compiler fit with their development and library model, which is quite a bit different from how everyone else does things.
And some Apple patches, especially with regards to Objective-C, have made their way into GCC. Maybe they could be doing more, but they're allready doing more than many corperations of their stature.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
This is great stuff from the big "A"
Meanwhile over in another story the big "M" is refusing to do a complete TCP/IP implementation.
Someone else already responded to this critique. The site explicitly says they added bad CSS that a compliant browser should ignore.
-dave
http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
Saying that a browser should not support full standards because people generally don't write standards compliant code is absurd. Make the browser support the standards and then expose the faulty css/html writers for the hacks they are. Just because someone is too stupid or too lazy to follow the standard is no reason to effectively abandon the standard!
Please at least mod up to 5 *one* of these posts saying the patches are in the article. It's quite important, I think.
That's what I do, actually; and the tracks all sound like crap.
DVDs on the other hand sound fine, so it's not the audio subsystem.
The CDs are commercially purchased music CDs, fairly generic.
Out of curiousity, what "app capable of playing them" ships with the mac? I'm using X11 apps, pulled with fink, compiled with Apple's SDKs from the Mac Mini CD set.
QuickTime player, for one...
This sig intentionally left justified.
The terms of use for the CD player, though, are insane given that I do not want or need to use iTunes. It would be great to play my own CDs, legally owned and purchased (or created) by me, without entering into a contract with Apple. Seems pretty straightforward.
I got the box as part of a research project, determining if the Mac Mini is a suitable replacement for a corporate desktop PC of similar cost. So far it's not, but I have a lot of work to do yet since I haven't used OSX before (I do have considerable experience with a dozen or so unices, including BSDs, and with the original Mac OS, as well as five or six unrelated opsystems).
Weirdly enough, I am a rocket scientist. Well, a former rocket scientist anyway - I got out of the family business because there wasn't enough money in it.
As for your recommendation, that's exactly what I did right off the bat. Sounds like crap; dropouts and garbles (DVD soundtracks sound fine, though).
Tested with a commericial CD (Stan Roger's "Northwest Passage") and DVD (Disney's "Fantasia") just now. Whamb and xmms audio players.
Konqueror still put in place all of the stuff necessary to make this happen. According to his blog, the he's only been working on this since April 12, but Konqueror has been in development for years. That's what we call standing on the shoulders of giants.
Also, I'll be interested to see when Dave/Apple get around to contributing this back to the KDE team.
So what, "Here's our source tree" is obfuscation? That's a pretty extreme position to take.
I suspect it's more of a cultural clash. To someone being paid, being told to take the patches from the source tree is a minor irritant at best. For a volunteer, any extra effort streches allready scarce donated time.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Safari lacks a decent xmlhttpRequest implementation. They may fix Acid2 but they still fail to parse a simple Ajax REST app.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
So how come this isn't in the /. "Apple" section too?
Seems kinda relevant, what with kudos and all...
Quite apart from the merits of the Acid2 test, its use of rendering a smiley face both (a) to be the test itself and (b) to show the quality of the test result ... is clever!
Most tests create an abstract "score" such as "85% compliant" which can be rendered by a graphic, such as a pie chart, but which is fundamentally different from the test itself. This abstraction process is extra work both for the researcher and for the reader. There is also the danger that it can be misleading. Edward Tufte has written on this at length in "Visual Explanations" and other books.
To put the test & the results together in a meaningful, intuitive package, as Acid2 seems to have done, is just great!
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
EULA required, and the program is absolutely craptacular from behind a corporate firewall anyway. There's about a 2 minute timeout right off the bat, with the app completely locked up.
It seemed a simple experiment at first; can I play a CD, without entering into additional agreements with corporate entities or loading additional software?
So far, the answer is no. I seem to have gotten banned from slashdot for asking, though... I had to change my IP subnet in order to keep posting!
I'd just use Safari to browse to TOD and try my own "acid" test in VisualBoyAdvance for Mac OS X.
It booted my Debian CD and it didn't ask me for my name, nor did I enter a contract...
I've been waiting for a browser that would finally comply with the standards. I was expecting something like firefox to pull it off. Even though I use safari, I was willing to switch over to firefox if it began to support that standard.
I'm surprised that microsoft hasn't complied with it. At the same time I'm not, though. Microsoft sets quite a lot of standards just by making it a company standard... such as microsoft office is semi-standard. And hardware vendors need to meet microsofts requirements for windows to work on their hardware. But I suppose since it's the web, their weight doesn't hold true. On top of that, their browser isn't very good to begin with.
In an ideal world, though. IE would be compliant with the standard, since so many people use it.
Eitherway, I'm glad to see safari was first out the door.
http://www.6765656b.com it's the ~ for us geek's.
So I'm a WASA? (try and guess my religion)
Anglican Christianity?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
OK, I buy the argument that Apple could be doing a better job of making it easier for the KDE developers to make use of the changes Apple has made. But comparing Apple's behavior to that of Red Hat and SuSE is a bit self-serving. Linux is what Red Hat and SuSE do. It is blindingly obvious that improving Linux and tools that are used most by the Linux community is in their best interest.
It is in Apple's interest to cooperate with KDE developers, and extra assistance would be great. But Apple's business model is completely different from that of Red Hat or SuSE. Improvements in KDE benefit Apple, but not nearly as directly as they benefit Red Hat and SuSE. A more appropriate comparison would be Sony or Sun.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Yeah, like what for example?
I hardly doubt they give more than IBM, SGI or even SUN.
So what's the problem? Can't we all just get along?
Smartest answer so far, incidentally.
Yes, I don't want to agree to that EULA. (I posted it elsewhere in this topic.) I just want to play a CD, without sending data back to 3com or Apple or anyone else.
A EULA is a contractual agreement. That agreement is not suitable for my purposes. Especially since it is explicitly redefinable without notice.
Apologies if my prose is too prolix. I get that a lot.
I always thought Firefox is the best browser when it came to perfect rendering of CSS. But damn, my browser (Firefox 1.0.1) failed the test. Any idea how I can run Safari on GNU/Linux :-)
Try VLC? Not included, but has a working mac port
I am trolling
No, it should be a smiley face.
I am trolling
The other apps I tried play garbled music, with periodic dropouts (Even if I open the aiffs instead of the CD's dev file). Yet DVD audio plays fine with Apple DVD player, so it's unlikely to be a problem with my speakers.
I'm sure iTunes is excellent, and I'm sure Trojan makes excellent condoms.
I don't want to use an on-line music store and I don't want to wear a rubber (happily married thank you).
I just want to know why CDs don't don't play right on my mac mini without iTunes... if I could find out WHY i could hack around it. Perhaps it's interference from the automounter.
Apparently it is heresy to ask, though.
Perhaps the distinction between "playing" a CD and "booting" (or "reading") a CD escapes you?
"Playing" in this context generally refers to an AUDIO CD and not your debian install disk. We will ignore complications such as San Mehat's excellent "Sounds of Slashdot" disk which I haven't tried in the mac mini yet.
Maybe in their spurt of generosity, they'll consider a better license for Squeak Smalltalk?
I am off to find it now... I'll let you know how it turns out.
It trully boggles the mind to see such resistance to change, you won't even run the app to test it. I really think, however, you don't even own a Mac and are just making things up so everyone here in slashdotland thinks you are, how do you kids say it nowadays, oh yes, l337.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
Firefox 1.2 won't be compliant, because there will never be a 1.2. The roadmap specifically details the release schedule: 1.1, 1.5, 2.0.
Since it (probably!) fails miserably, this shows how well-designed all the current HTML/CSS standards are ("designed by committee", blergh).
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
LGPLed actually, but Apple is usually pretty good about contributing stuff back.
Umm, not quite. Pointing towards a link made by someone ealier here:
We created the khtml-cvs list for Apple, they got CVS accounts for KDE CVS. What did we get? We get periodical code bombs in the form of them releasing WebCore. Many of us wanted to even sign NDA's with Apple to at least get access to the history of their internal vcs and be able to be merging the changes incrementally, the way they can right now. Nothing came out of it. They do the very, very minimum required by LGPL.
And you know what? That's their right. They made a conscious decision about not working with KDE developers. All I'm asking for is that all the clueless people stop talking about the cooperation between Safari/Konqueror developers and how great it is. There's absolutely nothing great about it. In fact "it" doesn't exist. Maybe for Apple - at the very least for their marketing people. Clear?
Don't believe everything Steve Jobs tells you, so to speak.
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
From his latest blog entry: "Do you have any idea how hard it is to be merging between two totally different trees when one of them doesn't have any history? That's the situation KDE is in. We created the khtml-cvs list for Apple, they got CVS accounts for KDE CVS. What did we get? We get periodical code bombs in the form of them releasing WebCore. Many of us wanted to even sign NDA's with Apple to at least get access to the history of their internal vcs and be able to be merging the changes incrementally, the way they can right now. Nothing came out of it. They do the very, very minimum required by LGPL." Go read the whole post. Very informative, and kind of sad.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
From his latest blog entry:
"Do you have any idea how hard it is to be merging between two totally different trees when one of them doesn't have any history? That's the situation KDE is in. We created the khtml-cvs list for Apple, they got CVS accounts for KDE CVS. What did we get? We get periodical code bombs in the form of them releasing WebCore. Many of us wanted to even sign NDA's with Apple to at least get access to the history of their internal vcs and be able to be merging the changes incrementally, the way they can right now. Nothing came out of it. They do the very, very minimum required by LGPL."
Go read the whole post. Very informative, and kind of sad.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
Konqueror uses the KHTML rendered, which is the basis of OSX's WebCore, which is what Safari uses for its renderer. These updates to Safari (or WebCore really) should eventually make their way back to KHTML and thus Konqueror, which will run on your Linux flavor of choice.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
I was testing DHTML with the newest version of Safari about a month ago and it had some serious refresh problems with moveable text.. No other browser I've ever tested had the same problem.
Kudos to them for staying on top of things.
Do you always assume somebody's lying if their experience doesn't match your expectations?
How could I have been so blind! Everything is clear to me now, solely due to your incisive and cogent post.
Hovering effects -- One of the elements in the face changes color when you hover over it. Which one?
The nose!
There is a fundamental difference between HTML and SMTP. The difference is this: SMTP is designed to be run by computers. HTML, in contrast, was originally designed to be written by humans. When I set up my first web page in 1994, I went to a web page describing HTML and wrote my web page by hand based on what a HTML tutorial told me to do.
The expectation was that people would write their own web pages by hand. HTML editors, such as Dream Waver and Front Page, did not show up until later. As a consequence of this, web browsers have to deal with human-generated code and the resultant quirks such code has.
There was a time, in 1992, when www could have been modified to be pedantic and refuse to render web pages with syntax errors. It may have even been possible, as recently as 1993, when the earliest versions of Mosaic were released, to have had a parser that would replace any page with "invalid" HTML with a "I refuse to display this page because it has bad HTML" page.
However, once the web started taking off in 1994, such an option became impossible. Since billions of web pages on the internet contain HTML with syntax errors [1], it is impossible to make a web browser today that will replace a page with less-than-perfect HTML with an error message.
Attempts to force rigid syntax, such as XHTML, have been introduced too late in the game to make a difference to the web at large. Gecko is, from what I heard, a horrible mess because of having to deal with all of these quirks. Like a natural language, HTML has become very complicated, and can not be put in to a neat little box called "web standards" the way some here wish to do.
[1] Dillo, the browser I'm using right now, has a HTML parser which reports the number of HTML bugs on every page I browse. I have only seen one page where it said the page was without bugs. The page I'm writing this on has 22 bugs.
[2] Dynamic HTML makes it nay-to-impossible to make clean HTML, especially when users can contribute their own HTML.
It seems to hang at 58% every time, regardless of what system I use to try to download it.
I thought I got it at one point, but it failed the MD5 compare (and was about 4MB smaller than the original).
I've got the source, so I'll try rolling my own...
I don't know anybody who would write CSS that didn't work on IE. I hate IE, you hate IE, but an awful lot of people use IE, so you can't ignore it completely when creating a webpage.
So while this is good PR for Apple, it doesn't mean much in practice. Safari was already better than IE at CSS. When it comes to writing webpages, you have to write stuff that the *worst* browser can handle; quite simply, Safari isn't the limiting reagent here.
It's great that they did this, but it doesn't really help anybody.
That is, unless you wrote a special "Optimized for Safari!" version of your webpage, but that would be silly.
Since Mr. Hyatt used to do Mozilla development, it is possible he could use what he learned from his work on Safari if he decided to contribute to Mozilla again.
Never is quite along time.
Good luck finding something better than itunes by the way.
foobar2000, & a good Torrent site.
TA DAAAAA
Yeah, I went through the comments on Dave Hyatt's blog and found this link in the comments section (the same link you give above), and I was pretty shocked. Like most folks, I thought that KHTML was benefiting from Apple's contributions. However, after reading the critique by Zack Rusin (one of the KHTML developers), I took a closer look at some of the patches that Dave Hyatt posted links to on his blog.
While many of the patches were simple logic changes, a few of them had OS X specific code in them which makes them non portable. Hyatt's follow-up comments indicate that he tried to hide many of the Mac-isms behind an abstraction layer so that they could port cleanly to other platforms, but a cursory glance at the patches shows that he didn't hide everything.
So while this is a great win for Apple and for Mac OS X, it's not the boon to KHTML that many thought it would be.
Personally, I'm disappointed that the Safari team would put Mac-specific code into the KHTML engine, making some of their patches impossible to incorporate back into the KHTML baseline. This is the kind of thing I would expect from a novice programmer who's only ever coded for, say, Windows.
(Just a side note to the poster I'm responding to: Most folks who read your comment probably didn't realize the significance of it because they didn't follow the link. A brief summary of what the link is pointing to would have been really useful.)
Haven't you heard, Adobe is canning Flash ;-)
FalconShould there be a Law?
Why is this a troll?