I'm taking the concept of more people moving to consoles to the next step. I've made the assumption that PC gamers will move to the consoles which would essentially cause the market for PC games to shrink/decline. I realize that you don't agree with this assumption, but that was the idea behind the statement.
Like you said the graph does appear to show people drifting from game to game, but that's just another aspect of this. This whole concept would be a very interesting study to conduct, if you could effectively cover all of these aspects.
FFXI does appear to have annihilated all the other titles in the list. I have the feeling their success has a lot to do with the pre-existing fan base for that title too. Ten+ previous versions that are all very successful games. I am one of the adopters myself, on the PS2, which is nearly identical to the PC version from what I can tell. I'd like to see a version of this graph that has tracked through today too as that would be very telling.
If you interpolate from the graph the number of people leaving other games and the increase in subscribers to FFXI, I'd say that there has been an increase in MMORPG subscribers of about 200000 subscribers out of a total of about 2.5 million subscribers, which is only an 8% increase. That doesn't strike me as very fast. That's a healthy increase in players, but it all appears to be due to FFXI. I don't think that it is growing as fast as you do.
Thanks, by the way, I've really enjoyed this discussion.
"...as long as consumers buy PCs, developpers will make games for them."
I think that would make more sense if you said:...as long as consumers buy games on PCs, developers will make games for them. Which is how the consumers drive the market to begin with.
You are right, that's what the article says, but you would get more out of that graph if you did compare the trend between PC sales vs the consoles. Also, the graph does show that the older titles are dropping away while new ones become popular, FFXI is a skyrocket, but it's in the minority. Aside from FFXI, Horizons and Ragnarok Online every other game in that graph has stagnated or is in decline. So, it doesn't support your postion exactly. 3 out of 20 are on the rise, now it could simply be that everybody is moving to those three, but it's not clear from the graph if that is the case. You'd actually have to crunch those numbers to make that determination. And it still doesn't address the PC vs. console question at all.
As the market for PC games declines the demand for games on the PC will decline as well, the companies won't be as profitable and they will fall if they don't move to the proprietary platforms that you dislike so much. That's just simple economics.
Have you missed the news? They reported that the XBox 2 will have up to five, count 'em five (essentially G5) procs. Other reports have said three, but you still couldn't even buy one of those procs for less that $600. You can't come close to that for $400.
We're also not talking about modding your games here. That's a versatility question, not a power question. On top of which, it sounds like you like to cheat, not just mod. What can you do in FFXI that you can't do on a PS2? You've got keyboards and mice for that console, the graphics look the just about the same and the text on the TV is great. All that and it runs on a PS2 with it's old, inferior, hardware. So, how's the PC experience better for that game?
When the XBox came out it had superior graphics to the PCs at the time too. So, how can you suggest that ATI will give them something out-of-date/not cutting edge?
The hype for the XBox wasn't vapor, so what do you base your assumptions on?
Unfortunately developers aren't driving the market, the consumers are. With the consoles becoming more and more powerful, they could effectively replace the PC as the home computing system alltogether in the future. More likely we will see a distibuted home computing network replace both in the future as both "platforms" become more and more similar.
The "An Analysis of MMOG Subscription Growth" that you linked to says nothing about the subscription rates of MMORPGs on consoles vs. PCs which I think would be a much more enlightening picture of the industry. This report doesn't show whether the PC versions of these titles are dropping off or stagnating compared to the console versions or not, which was what the article was inferring.
MS just announced their new, and free I think, SDK that will allow simple development for PC and the XBox console simultaneously, so it's kind of funny that you make your comparisson when they are making it easier for you to develop for both without the issues that you are talking about. Now, that's not saying that Nintendo and Sony will do the same, I realize they are difficult to develop for, but it sure sounds like MS is trying to make it easier for you game developers.
This will be the first time in history, if rumors and speculation about XBox2 are true, that a console is superior to a home computer. If this is true and they sell it for around $400 at launch we could very well see the demise of gaming on the home computer platform.
With the current peripherals that are available for the consoles, like keyboards and mice, the user experience is comparable to a home computer.
It's also much nicer to play in the living room on a large screen television rather than on a monitor at a desk.
They addressed the issue of it looking like an iPod by putting the buttons on the bottom now. That's clearly enought to make it unique and not a rip-off.
The FONT is stolen and that's not nebulous. It's called CHICAGO.
Zenith tried this sort of thing once.... Bad idea
on
The Disposable Computer
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· Score: 2, Informative
Zenith tried using paper/cardboard circuit boards in their televisions once and it was a complete failure. It seems that many of the televisions arrived at stores and simply would not work out of the box. Turns out that the vibrations created during shipping was enough to break the circuit boards and forced them to recall the sets and replace the boards with ones that weren't as flimsy.
It's not as if this is the first time that this sort of thing has happened with this company and they always seem to manage to come out of them without any trouble. So, not much chance of that happening.
They don't utilize the hard drive as it is now anyhow. Without actually putting it to use, like speeding up load times, it's just a huge memory card.
Three PPCs based on the IBM 970. Not quite the same as the G5 as it isn't supposed to have the Altivec on board. So, no 128-bit pipes.
Also, ATI, as pointed out by others, it's a GameCube on steroids.
This is all old news, aside from the 3 procs. This is all being done to ensure that MS won't have to worry about the hackers of their old XBox with regards to the new one.
As for backwards compatibility, who cares? Certainly not Microsoft.
They probably invented it because it came first and the others weren't even available at the time. That and the fact that it was developed on Macintosh machines long before they were running any UNIX variants.
Actually, in early issues of "Bantha Tracks", a Star Wars fan newsletter you got when you joined the fan club back in the day, he was quoted as saying that it was a nine part story arc. So, your recollection is a little bit off.
He did start changing what he said after the release of the prequels though.
Episodes 7, 8, 9 will follow the Yuuzhan Vong stories of the New Jedi Order.
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I'm taking the concept of more people moving to consoles to the next step. I've made the assumption that PC gamers will move to the consoles which would essentially cause the market for PC games to shrink/decline. I realize that you don't agree with this assumption, but that was the idea behind the statement.
Like you said the graph does appear to show people drifting from game to game, but that's just another aspect of this. This whole concept would be a very interesting study to conduct, if you could effectively cover all of these aspects.
FFXI does appear to have annihilated all the other titles in the list. I have the feeling their success has a lot to do with the pre-existing fan base for that title too. Ten+ previous versions that are all very successful games. I am one of the adopters myself, on the PS2, which is nearly identical to the PC version from what I can tell. I'd like to see a version of this graph that has tracked through today too as that would be very telling.
If you interpolate from the graph the number of people leaving other games and the increase in subscribers to FFXI, I'd say that there has been an increase in MMORPG subscribers of about 200000 subscribers out of a total of about 2.5 million subscribers, which is only an 8% increase. That doesn't strike me as very fast. That's a healthy increase in players, but it all appears to be due to FFXI. I don't think that it is growing as fast as you do.
Thanks, by the way, I've really enjoyed this discussion.
You'll have to get one sometime soon, when the switchover finally happens.
Until then, you play on your 21" CRT and I'll be happy playing on my 60" Mitsu HD. To each their own, I guess.
"...as long as consumers buy PCs, developpers will make games for them."
...as long as consumers buy games on PCs, developers will make games for them. Which is how the consumers drive the market to begin with.
I think that would make more sense if you said:
You are right, that's what the article says, but you would get more out of that graph if you did compare the trend between PC sales vs the consoles. Also, the graph does show that the older titles are dropping away while new ones become popular, FFXI is a skyrocket, but it's in the minority. Aside from FFXI, Horizons and Ragnarok Online every other game in that graph has stagnated or is in decline. So, it doesn't support your postion exactly. 3 out of 20 are on the rise, now it could simply be that everybody is moving to those three, but it's not clear from the graph if that is the case. You'd actually have to crunch those numbers to make that determination. And it still doesn't address the PC vs. console question at all.
As the market for PC games declines the demand for games on the PC will decline as well, the companies won't be as profitable and they will fall if they don't move to the proprietary platforms that you dislike so much. That's just simple economics.
That and that licensing fee would have been much higher had it not been for Apple.
Whoops, you are correct. But it is a standard and it isn't owned by Apple.
So, he screwed himself. He should have taken the time to deauthorize his old laptop when he retired it. What a stupid complaint.
Apple owns the DRM, but they certainly don't own AAC.
Have you missed the news? They reported that the XBox 2 will have up to five, count 'em five (essentially G5) procs. Other reports have said three, but you still couldn't even buy one of those procs for less that $600. You can't come close to that for $400.
We're also not talking about modding your games here. That's a versatility question, not a power question. On top of which, it sounds like you like to cheat, not just mod. What can you do in FFXI that you can't do on a PS2? You've got keyboards and mice for that console, the graphics look the just about the same and the text on the TV is great. All that and it runs on a PS2 with it's old, inferior, hardware. So, how's the PC experience better for that game?
When the XBox came out it had superior graphics to the PCs at the time too. So, how can you suggest that ATI will give them something out-of-date/not cutting edge?
The hype for the XBox wasn't vapor, so what do you base your assumptions on?
Run it through a High-Definition TV and you solved the monitor issue.
Unfortunately developers aren't driving the market, the consumers are. With the consoles becoming more and more powerful, they could effectively replace the PC as the home computing system alltogether in the future. More likely we will see a distibuted home computing network replace both in the future as both "platforms" become more and more similar.
The "An Analysis of MMOG Subscription Growth" that you linked to says nothing about the subscription rates of MMORPGs on consoles vs. PCs which I think would be a much more enlightening picture of the industry. This report doesn't show whether the PC versions of these titles are dropping off or stagnating compared to the console versions or not, which was what the article was inferring.
MS just announced their new, and free I think, SDK that will allow simple development for PC and the XBox console simultaneously, so it's kind of funny that you make your comparisson when they are making it easier for you to develop for both without the issues that you are talking about. Now, that's not saying that Nintendo and Sony will do the same, I realize they are difficult to develop for, but it sure sounds like MS is trying to make it easier for you game developers.
This will be the first time in history, if rumors and speculation about XBox2 are true, that a console is superior to a home computer. If this is true and they sell it for around $400 at launch we could very well see the demise of gaming on the home computer platform.
With the current peripherals that are available for the consoles, like keyboards and mice, the user experience is comparable to a home computer.
It's also much nicer to play in the living room on a large screen television rather than on a monitor at a desk.
Why do you say that? Maybe you'd rather have it with a slash through it?
Unfortunately, most on this particular board are more interested in stealing everything than they are in actually spending money on a product.
/. will care about this.
So, while you are 100% correct, not many at
They addressed the issue of it looking like an iPod by putting the buttons on the bottom now.
That's clearly enought to make it unique and not a rip-off.
That sounds like a personal problem.
The FONT is stolen and that's not nebulous. It's called CHICAGO.
Zenith tried using paper/cardboard circuit boards in their televisions once and it was a complete failure. It seems that many of the televisions arrived at stores and simply would not work out of the box. Turns out that the vibrations created during shipping was enough to break the circuit boards and forced them to recall the sets and replace the boards with ones that weren't as flimsy.
It's not as if this is the first time that this sort of thing has happened with this company and they always seem to manage to come out of them without any trouble. So, not much chance of that happening.
To stop any litigation against them for their own mistakes. They can't be held responsible for being lazy and incompentant.
Now that Apple had laid down the gauntlet and Linux works that way too, MS is again following the rest of the industry...
They don't utilize the hard drive as it is now anyhow. Without actually putting it to use, like speeding up load times, it's just a huge memory card. Three PPCs based on the IBM 970. Not quite the same as the G5 as it isn't supposed to have the Altivec on board. So, no 128-bit pipes. Also, ATI, as pointed out by others, it's a GameCube on steroids. This is all old news, aside from the 3 procs. This is all being done to ensure that MS won't have to worry about the hackers of their old XBox with regards to the new one. As for backwards compatibility, who cares? Certainly not Microsoft.
They probably invented it because it came first and the others weren't even available at the time. That and the fact that it was developed on Macintosh machines long before they were running any UNIX variants.
Caveat: The scenes with Chewie will all have to be memories, seeing as how he is dead now...
It'll be post NJO/Yuuzhan Vong. It won't have anything to do with the Zahn trilogy...
Actually, in early issues of "Bantha Tracks", a Star Wars fan newsletter you got when you joined the fan club back in the day, he was quoted as saying that it was a nine part story arc. So, your recollection is a little bit off. He did start changing what he said after the release of the prequels though. Episodes 7, 8, 9 will follow the Yuuzhan Vong stories of the New Jedi Order.