Hehe, 'a nice DNS name' huh? hehe. Isn't that kind of redundantly worded?:-P I think "domain name" might be a little more accurate. "DNS" is "Domain Name Service" (or other similar variations) where domain name is already in it...
I wonder how much it costs to get this kind of thing done - I'd be happy to start a donation pool to round-up as much funding as it would take to get all these guys wiped out. Maybe that will be the trick, in the end? Make spamming too dangerous for anyone to risk getting involved?
Yah, that was actually kind of ignorant. Payment of royalties still applies overseas. It's not money laundering or child porn where you have something to 'get away with'. Part of the point of internet radio is finding some way to make a few bucks and share it back to the industry. At least that's how we'd like it to be but in the end all the money for the little artists who make good music goes to the top 10 to do all the sales, the whole system doesn't even make any sense.
So in the end internet radio will have to go 'pirate' which isn't the best way to keep the support of the bands & labels. I've been getting free music & guestlist access to shit for years because I've been running a legit station... What will they think of me if I go rogue?:-P I know one thing for certain, it will still cost a lot more. Maybe it won't after the industry get competitive again and the streaming server biz gets better. But I don't have time to wait! My whole operation is a not-for-profit, out-of-pocket type of thing.:-/
True enough that anyone who's been in a position to experience it at *least* will get it. Though I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who'd think that's actually how it works....Just wait!
The fun bonus on the other side is that with OSS you can actually get great deals on outside assistance that's actually very able & customer service oriented.
I'm still trying to comprehend the black or white, lack of balance mentality that seems to dominate most peoples minds; like a disease. It's not so hard to steer towards an intelligent, well moderated, middle-ground in the interest of using the right tool for the right job!
In that case they should feel even worse about it, contributing to the extinction of a giant animal that's probably not only been a huge part of their culture & heritage but possibly key to the survivability of the area. I mean seriously, if you turn to WHALE as a food - there probably wasn't much else until someone started trucking in SPAM.
I'm not much of a conservationist but geeze...
Not just having to run the ISP or service the email accounts are on, dealing with all the wasted resources that result from spam - but what about the huge number of clients complaining all the time about how much spam gets through filtering!? The angry, rude customers who won't let up until you can filter all the spam out?!
Until you tighten things down a little too much and they can't SEND mail anymore because their network has an infection that's been causing them to send spam themselves!!
It's a huge disaster, penalty should be death. Period.
Another big deal about spam is that grouped in to the category is usually the more dangerous content. Phishing, infections, fraud. Any number of them can even turn your computer into either a member of a botnet, among other things. Such zombies are also often used to traffic child porn, to contribute to DDoS attacks or as proxies to anonymize the activities of criminals. The added bonus to any of those things being that in far too many cases local law enforcement has no clue how or why anything works so they could easily rip your life apart coming after YOU as the criminal responsible for the activities of your equipment. "Well the child porn is on YOUR computer, right?" "It is!?" "Yah, book 'im!"
It's not like it hasn't happened before. Not to mention in the process of using your equipment (if you're enough of a putz not to care if your computer is used for evil while you're away) it's easy for your personal information to be stolen where common issues include having your banking info stolen, having your ebay account taken over (and used to sell things they don't intend to ship) and also cleaning out your paypal account.
A lot of the time it seems the spammers open the doors by hijacking peoples systems, so they can send more spam with more anonymity. Once your system is compromised (and you may never know it) it's even easier for it to be taken over for serious crime and I often wonder how many of them are all in on it together.
Bottom line - it's all bad! Burn them all! Aaarrrr!!
If you're technical enough to have a good idea how thing really work, have dealt with the hell spammers cause the industry (hosting especially, abuse departments, CS, hah) and you're familiar with Project Honey Pot, what they do, how and why; you'd know this is a great thing. It's awesome to finally see efforts put to good use and progress made, even only in small steps, any kind of progress gives me a hell of a sense of hope for the future...
Half the countries in the world and trying to put together their own youtube (or myspace) right now. Within the next 6 months the market is going to be flooded. hah! and I'll bet network performance is going to go horribly wrong with it! hahaha
That's BS. Granted things are going to break or act unusual in some ways, because of vastly diverse situations - but when a company says pay us a million bucks and we'll give you this crap that does everything you could ever want, it does it perfectly and it'll leave you operating in such a way as to interface perfectly with your customers allowing everyone to ride off into the sunset and never have any worries ever again there's 2 problems.
1) Bullshit! Why would you even believe it?!?! 2) How dare they claim to ave the universal holy grail to offer if they just sell broken shit and expect the paying customer to fix someone elses product?
in a company comprised largely of wanna-be geeks or semi techie types it's tough to limit access without too much headache from users.
but at the same time email shouldn't be such a large security concern these days and internal networks still need to be properly secured in case of the unforeseen - you never know what could happen, like someone swapping their laptop onto a port and getting access to the network and unwittingly spreading some kind of windows infection.
Granted you have a point there but the larger the fine the less likely it'll even get paid or end up reduced anyway. Making ones email address public is like making ones PO Box # public, why bother with something like that which could be so easily turned off and replaced? Aside from the fact that spammers probably don't care much about email anyway. You may as well publish the offender's myspace address and even then publish it where and who cares?
Wouldn't it be more effective to consider more sensible alternatives? Increase the punishment for bigger crimes? What about an alternative to jail like some kind of correctional home? An industry sponsored half way house for dirty digital crimes who need to have their views adjusted?:-P Put them in a clockwork orange chair and force them to watch the hell people go through dealing with privacy issues and the spam they help propagate? Server admins brutally committing suicide over all the spam problems, families being torn apart by porn scandals caused by UCE?
Until the break down and can no longer tolerate the horrible acts they've committed?
What about restrictions on the types of business they're allowed to engage in? Take them, for several years, out of the industry they've proven unable to work in responsibly?
...all kinds of stuff really... Nobody ever listens. "Oh yah, they just blasted a satellite inconsiderately into more space junk! Jerks! It's crowded enough as it is!" and people say "oh, you're just over reacting, shut up n00b-cake". But it is getting tight! Though it's fun to think of ways to clean it all up. I'd like to sit in high earth orbit with a BB gun and shoot the larger chunks into ATMO first. That would be fun!
Police hacking is bad, mmkay? Unless they're nailing spammers! Anyone should be able to do anything to track-down and disable spammers. (no, not mailing list operators, but real, serious spammers!) Spam is making people crazy as it is and I fear it won't be long until people start taking things into their own hands on large enough scales to do some damage.
The sad truth is that email has been abused for marketing, why would you WANT to use a method that 1) Has a bad reputation and 2) ends up buried in piles of similarly hated messages? A little bit like commercials. People hate them, they try to avoid them, the cut them out, they ignore them. I get newsletters from places I shop, thinkgeek, amazon (they over do it...) t-shirt hell - sometimes I think about unsubscribing because I just don't need all the STUFF in my inbox. But they do tell me about things which I'm curious. I know they'd unsubscribe me if I wanted to, I know they're a legit business and I know I like being their customer and that I *ASKED* for those emails in the first place. Sending marketing emails people don't want is spam and it should not happen - it is wrong. Period.
Crying about ways to market on "teh intarwebz" is re-tar-ded. Period. There are a million ways to go about it, many ways are more effective and most of them don't even taint the company name they advertise.
The wasted resources and corporations spend trying to clean users mail. The wasted resources the user is paying for... Just so spammers can cram more garbage down our throats? No thanks!
Buy some banner ads do google ads - there's no need for email marketing except with existing customers who get what they signed up for and only that. Post in directories, get a myspace page. For cripes sake just stop crying because people don't like junk mail!
This 'spam button' isn't just trouble for businesses doing email marketing at all. Some of the worst offenders being AOL users. Example situation: Some nice lady has a web site and email, she uses her email for things like family communications, coordinating the holidays and sending out the "Here's where we're vacationing this year" emails... One of her friends & family is an AOL user and CONSTANTLY marks her emails as spam! AOL's complaint emails don't offer any clues about who the complainer is, the hosting customer is completely clueless and ZERO help at all. Of course she's going with shared hosting so all sites outbound mail comes out from the same IP address and blacklisting affects everyone on the server, with no real way to resolve the issue.
Similar situation. Old domain hosted on shared hosting; Users decide to forward all their site email to their AOL address and add the alias. As mail is forwarded the shared server gets in the header, the user reports all the spam they get and the physical IP of the server gets blacklisted affecting hundreds of other customers trying to send email! (and of course spam filtering doesn't happen before the alias forwarded the email) The clueless user probably doesn't even realize this isn't just an easy way to sort mail but it actually HURTS people and makes business difficult for potentially hundreds of businesses including the hosting service left to pull their hair out!
The larger the company the more impossible (*cough* AOL) it is to work around small problems and shared servers and the like, mail servers which do far less volume than say Comcast or AT&T just can't be singled out as known legit servers - AOL doesn't have time to deal with them.
I've always been BIG on getting users to report spam, to fight it and help prevent it. Prevention before treatment! It's the only thing that makes sense and I believe it may have contributed heavily to spam being allowed to get so far out of control. But if the user doesn't even know what goes on as a result of that button click... It probably does more harm than good.
Slashdot Mirror
Hehe, 'a nice DNS name' huh? hehe. Isn't that kind of redundantly worded? :-P I think "domain name" might be a little more accurate. "DNS" is "Domain Name Service" (or other similar variations) where domain name is already in it...
I wonder how much it costs to get this kind of thing done - I'd be happy to start a donation pool to round-up as much funding as it would take to get all these guys wiped out. Maybe that will be the trick, in the end? Make spamming too dangerous for anyone to risk getting involved?
There should sooooooo be a BoFH of the Year award! Then I'd have a chance!
Yah, that was actually kind of ignorant. Payment of royalties still applies overseas. It's not money laundering or child porn where you have something to 'get away with'. Part of the point of internet radio is finding some way to make a few bucks and share it back to the industry. At least that's how we'd like it to be but in the end all the money for the little artists who make good music goes to the top 10 to do all the sales, the whole system doesn't even make any sense.
:-P I know one thing for certain, it will still cost a lot more. Maybe it won't after the industry get competitive again and the streaming server biz gets better. But I don't have time to wait! My whole operation is a not-for-profit, out-of-pocket type of thing. :-/
So in the end internet radio will have to go 'pirate' which isn't the best way to keep the support of the bands & labels. I've been getting free music & guestlist access to shit for years because I've been running a legit station... What will they think of me if I go rogue?
I don't think that's quite the point. :-)
Oh! You're a lawyer now! Since when did anyone with enough money and good enough lawyers need any standing? Any ground to stand on? Or anything else?
They're big evil Sony, they've made a big scene in the eye of the public;
"Lookie! We attack the the real bad guy! Round-eye BEETCH!"
Win or loose the story will probably fade now that they've made what's probably their last attempt to save face over the incident.
True enough that anyone who's been in a position to experience it at *least* will get it. Though I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who'd think that's actually how it works. ...Just wait!
The fun bonus on the other side is that with OSS you can actually get great deals on outside assistance that's actually very able & customer service oriented.
I'm still trying to comprehend the black or white, lack of balance mentality that seems to dominate most peoples minds; like a disease. It's not so hard to steer towards an intelligent, well moderated, middle-ground in the interest of using the right tool for the right job!
OH NOES! Has the world gone EMO!?
That doesn't put it into context, that's easily the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
In that case they should feel even worse about it, contributing to the extinction of a giant animal that's probably not only been a huge part of their culture & heritage but possibly key to the survivability of the area. I mean seriously, if you turn to WHALE as a food - there probably wasn't much else until someone started trucking in SPAM. I'm not much of a conservationist but geeze...
Not just having to run the ISP or service the email accounts are on, dealing with all the wasted resources that result from spam - but what about the huge number of clients complaining all the time about how much spam gets through filtering!? The angry, rude customers who won't let up until you can filter all the spam out?! Until you tighten things down a little too much and they can't SEND mail anymore because their network has an infection that's been causing them to send spam themselves!! It's a huge disaster, penalty should be death. Period.
Another big deal about spam is that grouped in to the category is usually the more dangerous content. Phishing, infections, fraud. Any number of them can even turn your computer into either a member of a botnet, among other things. Such zombies are also often used to traffic child porn, to contribute to DDoS attacks or as proxies to anonymize the activities of criminals. The added bonus to any of those things being that in far too many cases local law enforcement has no clue how or why anything works so they could easily rip your life apart coming after YOU as the criminal responsible for the activities of your equipment. "Well the child porn is on YOUR computer, right?" "It is!?" "Yah, book 'im!"
It's not like it hasn't happened before. Not to mention in the process of using your equipment (if you're enough of a putz not to care if your computer is used for evil while you're away) it's easy for your personal information to be stolen where common issues include having your banking info stolen, having your ebay account taken over (and used to sell things they don't intend to ship) and also cleaning out your paypal account.
A lot of the time it seems the spammers open the doors by hijacking peoples systems, so they can send more spam with more anonymity. Once your system is compromised (and you may never know it) it's even easier for it to be taken over for serious crime and I often wonder how many of them are all in on it together.
Bottom line - it's all bad! Burn them all! Aaarrrr!!
If you're technical enough to have a good idea how thing really work, have dealt with the hell spammers cause the industry (hosting especially, abuse departments, CS, hah) and you're familiar with Project Honey Pot, what they do, how and why; you'd know this is a great thing. It's awesome to finally see efforts put to good use and progress made, even only in small steps, any kind of progress gives me a hell of a sense of hope for the future...
Yes! With a tiny bit of settings tweaking the over-wifi 'net gaming works great too. If starcraft used that for WAN gaming it'd be SWEEEEET!
They should just build a big bubble around Canada, covered in anti RF paint. ZOMG! YouTube on teh intarweb! HIDE!
Half the countries in the world and trying to put together their own youtube (or myspace) right now. Within the next 6 months the market is going to be flooded. hah! and I'll bet network performance is going to go horribly wrong with it! hahaha
It's nice to see anyone taking a stab back at those bastards!
That's BS. Granted things are going to break or act unusual in some ways, because of vastly diverse situations - but when a company says pay us a million bucks and we'll give you this crap that does everything you could ever want, it does it perfectly and it'll leave you operating in such a way as to interface perfectly with your customers allowing everyone to ride off into the sunset and never have any worries ever again there's 2 problems.
1) Bullshit! Why would you even believe it?!?!
2) How dare they claim to ave the universal holy grail to offer if they just sell broken shit and expect the paying customer to fix someone elses product?
in a company comprised largely of wanna-be geeks or semi techie types it's tough to limit access without too much headache from users.
but at the same time email shouldn't be such a large security concern these days and internal networks still need to be properly secured in case of the unforeseen - you never know what could happen, like someone swapping their laptop onto a port and getting access to the network and unwittingly spreading some kind of windows infection.
woooo! Fun!
Granted you have a point there but the larger the fine the less likely it'll even get paid or end up reduced anyway. Making ones email address public is like making ones PO Box # public, why bother with something like that which could be so easily turned off and replaced? Aside from the fact that spammers probably don't care much about email anyway. You may as well publish the offender's myspace address and even then publish it where and who cares?
:-P Put them in a clockwork orange chair and force them to watch the hell people go through dealing with privacy issues and the spam they help propagate? Server admins brutally committing suicide over all the spam problems, families being torn apart by porn scandals caused by UCE?
Wouldn't it be more effective to consider more sensible alternatives? Increase the punishment for bigger crimes? What about an alternative to jail like some kind of correctional home? An industry sponsored half way house for dirty digital crimes who need to have their views adjusted?
Until the break down and can no longer tolerate the horrible acts they've committed?
What about restrictions on the types of business they're allowed to engage in? Take them, for several years, out of the industry they've proven unable to work in responsibly?
Party! Round of beers on me! $100 rewards to anyone providing information leading to an arrest! I think I'll go get drunk!
...all kinds of stuff really... Nobody ever listens. "Oh yah, they just blasted a satellite inconsiderately into more space junk! Jerks! It's crowded enough as it is!" and people say "oh, you're just over reacting, shut up n00b-cake". But it is getting tight! Though it's fun to think of ways to clean it all up. I'd like to sit in high earth orbit with a BB gun and shoot the larger chunks into ATMO first. That would be fun!
Police hacking is bad, mmkay? Unless they're nailing spammers! Anyone should be able to do anything to track-down and disable spammers. (no, not mailing list operators, but real, serious spammers!) Spam is making people crazy as it is and I fear it won't be long until people start taking things into their own hands on large enough scales to do some damage.
You're retarded.
The sad truth is that email has been abused for marketing, why would you WANT to use a method that 1) Has a bad reputation and 2) ends up buried in piles of similarly hated messages? A little bit like commercials. People hate them, they try to avoid them, the cut them out, they ignore them. I get newsletters from places I shop, thinkgeek, amazon (they over do it...) t-shirt hell - sometimes I think about unsubscribing because I just don't need all the STUFF in my inbox. But they do tell me about things which I'm curious. I know they'd unsubscribe me if I wanted to, I know they're a legit business and I know I like being their customer and that I *ASKED* for those emails in the first place. Sending marketing emails people don't want is spam and it should not happen - it is wrong. Period.
Crying about ways to market on "teh intarwebz" is re-tar-ded. Period. There are a million ways to go about it, many ways are more effective and most of them don't even taint the company name they advertise.
The wasted resources and corporations spend trying to clean users mail. The wasted resources the user is paying for... Just so spammers can cram more garbage down our throats? No thanks!
Buy some banner ads do google ads - there's no need for email marketing except with existing customers who get what they signed up for and only that. Post in directories, get a myspace page. For cripes sake just stop crying because people don't like junk mail!
This 'spam button' isn't just trouble for businesses doing email marketing at all. Some of the worst offenders being AOL users. Example situation: Some nice lady has a web site and email, she uses her email for things like family communications, coordinating the holidays and sending out the "Here's where we're vacationing this year" emails... One of her friends & family is an AOL user and CONSTANTLY marks her emails as spam! AOL's complaint emails don't offer any clues about who the complainer is, the hosting customer is completely clueless and ZERO help at all. Of course she's going with shared hosting so all sites outbound mail comes out from the same IP address and blacklisting affects everyone on the server, with no real way to resolve the issue.
Similar situation. Old domain hosted on shared hosting; Users decide to forward all their site email to their AOL address and add the alias. As mail is forwarded the shared server gets in the header, the user reports all the spam they get and the physical IP of the server gets blacklisted affecting hundreds of other customers trying to send email! (and of course spam filtering doesn't happen before the alias forwarded the email) The clueless user probably doesn't even realize this isn't just an easy way to sort mail but it actually HURTS people and makes business difficult for potentially hundreds of businesses including the hosting service left to pull their hair out!
The larger the company the more impossible (*cough* AOL) it is to work around small problems and shared servers and the like, mail servers which do far less volume than say Comcast or AT&T just can't be singled out as known legit servers - AOL doesn't have time to deal with them.
I've always been BIG on getting users to report spam, to fight it and help prevent it. Prevention before treatment! It's the only thing that makes sense and I believe it may have contributed heavily to spam being allowed to get so far out of control. But if the user doesn't even know what goes on as a result of that button click... It probably does more harm than good.