iRiver H320 (Almost) Hits The Market

skyshock21 writes "iRiver appears to now be taking pre-orders for their H320 hard drive MP3 player. This is the one with the color screen that was featured on Slashdot a while back. Although it doesn't support .flac files like the Rio Karma, it does support .ogg, in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav) and sports a nifty color screen. There is also a review posted on CNET."

Comments

what rush?

[Weh]

don't see no rush.

Re:what rush?

[SilentChris]

Especially with the Archos mini400 out now. Saw one today and I instantly fell in love. The thing is a geek's dream come true. My credit card is getting quite a workout.

Re:what rush?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do they mpost stories about every mp3 player that comes on the market? fine this has video/lcd .. but we have had multiple stories about similar devices.

Please .. can we only have innovation here? If the device was thinner and lighter than the ipod fine we'd have a story.

Re:what rush?

[Anonymous Writer]

Here's a link to Archos Gmini 400. The specs say it works for both PC and Macs. The Archos AV 400 and Gmini 220 look pretty interesting too. The AV 400 looks like it's supposed to be a Portable Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, but it isn't - it doesn't need a computer to record from television. I never heard of these products up until this point, and I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

I don't see why they don't just add stylii to these things so they can also be PDAs. Surely they can function as PDAs if you can install software like games on them. If they did so, these things could compete with PalmPilots, and they already look like they are already good competition for the iPod, Portable Media Centers, GameBoys, and Portable Playstations.

Re:what rush?

[jargoone]

I think they look like serious competition for the iPod, even for Mac users.

What?!? This device has a completely different market segment than the iPod. Sure, it might cost about the same price as the highest-capacity one, but people interested in a video player wouldn't be looking at an iPod would they? On the other side, this thing is bigger, doesn't have the life-altering scroll wheel, nor the "look-at-me" white headphones.

I like Archos products, and think iPods are nice but overrated. However, in this case, neither will affect the other's sales.

Re:what rush?

[SilentChris]

"On the other side, this thing is bigger"

Actually, it isn't by much. The mini400 is about the same size as my current iPod. That's what make it so cool.

Almost hits market?

[WIAKywbfatw]

What next? Duke Nukem Forever almost launched? Great story. Not.

Re:Almost hits market?

[Shadow_139]

They been in Ireland for the last 4 Months. I got mine from the first batch that came from CMS(IRIVER Irish Agent). The sales Reps must of got to drunk to make to over the US.... where beer is shit

Re:Almost hits market?

[Anonymous Coward]

A good source told me it's likely we'll see DNF by next year. I'm not sure he was serious. Probably not. Who am I kidding??

Battery life?

[NETHED]

I for one, don't want a color screen. I want a battery that lasts me a month. I'll deal with a small, effective, elegant monochrome screen.

Just my two bits.

Re:Battery life?

[RazzleFrog]

You know I thought the same thing about cell phones until I got my Samsung. The color screen is much easier to read in bright sunlight as well as pitch black night. The battery life obviously suffers but I have a charger at work and at home.

The iRiver says it has a 16 hour life so figure 10-12 hours realistically. Unless you are flying half-way across the globe I think that should get you to and from work.

Re:Battery life?

[garcia]

What I'm more concerned with is whether or not the battery can be replaced without returning the unit.

Yeah, it's great to have a Lithium Ion but what happens when it stops recharging? Am I going to be able to easily replace it or am I going to have to return it to the manufacturer only for them to tell me it's out of warranty and there's nothing they can do?

I have had too many devices' batteries go south without an acceptable replacement route.

Re:Battery life?

[OverlordQ]

According to the CNET review it get's 16 hours of playback. Which is over twice that of the iPod. That's twice as long with a color screen then the iPod with your 'monocrome' screen.

Re:Battery life?

[Shadow_139]

I've have one of these for about 3/4 months now, living in Ireland. Had the IHP140 which was cool. Better batt life on this one, and I got a batt. pack that is take any 4xAA batterys. 28:06:42:12 Meow

Re:Battery life?

[twbecker]

It's not twice as long as the 4G iPod. They can get around 12 hours.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, let me know where you got that backpack for the iHP140! I'd like to get one too!

mark.hackett

blueyonder.co.uk

Cheers.

PS I've already asked if they can get their flash players made up so that they appear to be USB Mass Storage so I can use one of them with a weeny battery for 40 hours.

No response so far.

Re:Battery life?

[thesp]

Well, the previous models' batteries can be replaced with a TORX screwdriver, so no reason why the newer should be any different.

Re:Battery life?

[racer19]

"I'll deal with a small, effective, elegant monochrome screen...Just my two bits"

Actually, wouldn't your monochrome screen only require 1 bit? ;)

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a new definition of "over twice".

16 hours (ugly black thing) vs. 12 hours (attractive white thing) ... hmmm.

But .ogg support is nice.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't all the black things measure up bigger than the white things? Is this a suprise?

Re:Battery life?

[ImaLamer]

You're right. Seems silly to have a device which only shows JPEG and Bitmaps (BMP).

I guess if you want to have album covers displayed on screen it's good... but where is XviD support?

Re:Battery life?

[Pieroxy]

Giving that they usually sell the batteries for half the price of the unit (or close), in a couple of years when yours will stop recharging, you'll rather buy a new unit anyways...

All these devices are slowly becoming disposable, simply because the turn-over is really quick and the prices are going down.

Re:Battery life?

[jspectre]

if someone had a butt-ugly mp3 player that had 24 hrs of battery life and 80g of storage and it was the same price as a beautiful mp3 player that had 4 hrs of battery life and 10g of storage you'd still get the pretty one? come on. you buy a mp3 player to LISTEN TO MUSIC, not gawk at it's astetics.

yeah. the ipod is very nice to look at and the interface is pretty much the one to beat. but if you're buying it on looks alone that's pretty stupid. how often do you shove your mp3 player in your pocket/backpack/whatever anyway?

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

if someone had a butt-ugly mp3 player that had 24 hrs of battery life and 80g of storage and it was the same price as a beautiful mp3 player that had 4 hrs of battery life and 10g of storage you'd still get the pretty one?

You're obviously not part of the Apple demographic.

Re:Battery life?

[ayeco]

Why are you comparing the battery life of the 4gb iPod to this 20gb device?

Re:Battery life?

[lessthanjakejohn]

4th generation

Re:Battery life?

[auzy]

Apple claim 8 hours battery life on my ipod, but after using it 5 hours, its mostly empty, and the battery shouldn't be fully discharged either. Personally, I dont foresee me being able to accomplish 8 hours even when the battery was brand new.

Battery life is dependant on the way their record it. Remember that the battery life they claim is max battery life, in perfect temperature conditions probably, low humidity, with the volume of the player down to 0, the backlight off, etc. Just because a battery has even 30 hours playback time, it might only last 4 or 5 months or so, and if it costs a fortune to replace, then longativity is very important.

Personally, I'm more interested in a player which is highly upgradable, so that in 12 months when a new Music format gets released, you can utilise it. Another issue I'd imagine are the upcoming DRM issues.. I'd hate to discover in 12 months that its impossible to upload your own CD's to more then one music player, or even that every file you upload to it from computer needs to be digitally signed by Microsoft or something

Re:Battery life?

[MartinG]

You can skip between songs and change volume etc without _needing_ to see the screen in the dark, but you can't find phone numbers or send a text in the dark so easily.

In other works, I see your point about a phone screen but I don't think the same applies to a music player. Battery life is still more important IMO.

Re:Battery life?

[aardwolf204]

Thats just marketdroid speak. I've got a 4G iPod and under "Normal Real People" conditions it gets maybe 6 - 7 hours, which is still enough for a long car trip. Maybe they got 12 hours by putting a 4 MB 64k AAC in the flash buffer and set the ipod on repeat ;)

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

Right, and the old 3G iPod can get the same gains with the higher capacity aftermarket batteries that came out. I bought one for $25, I get about 10 hours of life out of it now.

The iPod's "dismal battery life" was a result of its form factor. Apple used the smallest battery they could to get a minimum of 8 hours playback, so you could listen all day at work. Now that there are millions of uses for batteries that size, many battery manufacturers are creating higher capacity flat batteries that are also mega cheap. Blaming Apple for using the best battery on the market at the time is kind of stupid.

Incidentally, I will not be replacing my iPod with an iRiver any time soon, because while the colour screen is really cool, the device looks pretty large, has WAY too many click tactile buttons to break and ports that will fill with lint, the visual interface looks pretty dull (reminds me of KDE, ew) and the human interface poorly laid out. It is hard to use tiny little buttons while on the go...that's why the iPod has a huge fucking wheel (and why mine has large, inset, finger sized buttons). Why does everybody else insist on making tiny little buttons and putting them right next to each other? Aesthetics? Who sees the thing when it's in your coat pocket? If you NEED to make some small buttons, at least space them more than a thumb's width apart, so you don't press all of them at once. GOD, why is Apple the only company who can engineer a fucking device that doesn't feel like some sadistic toy?

Re:Battery life?

[DWIM]

Yeah, but how does it compare to your toaster? Wha...?

Re:Battery life?

[jspectre]

actually. i own a 12" powerbook and a few older apple products. but no, i don't worship at the altar of steve jobs.

Re:Battery life?

[MacGod]

According to the CNET review it get's 16 hours of playback. Which is over twice that of the iPod. That's twice as long with a color screen then the iPod with your 'monocrome' screen.

That's not the point. The point is that if you took the same device, and used a monochrome screen, you might get 24 hours or more of music.

Though an iRiver-to-Ipod comparison is valid overall, it isn't in this case. This is a question of mono-vs-colour for the same device. Colour screens need more transistors and a brighter backlight (thus they use much more power).

Re:Battery life?

[A Drake Man]

That should read UP TO 16 hrs. Apple has generally given times related to the bitrate that most people will find acceptable 160 when they were using MP3, 128 now that they're using AAC). How much do you want to bet that this 16 hrs is when you use the Windows Media format at 64kps? :)

By the way, that's also the only way you're going to get 600 hours of digital music on it, too. Is Apple the only company that rates their player by how many songs/how long it'll play at 128kbps?

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your story about design and battery improvements is nice. You can make excuses, blame Canada, or fabricate some documents about how Bush was involved in the battery choice, the fact remains... The iPod as sold right now and today, has HOURS less battery life and an increasing amount of "less" features then similar players also available in the market right now. The point of all Apple had available months/years ago is a moot point when they are still making it now and today!

Re:Battery life?

[A Drake Man]

No, you buy it for OTHER people to gawk at it's aesthetics :)

Re:Battery life?

[angry_leprechaun]

I have no idea where all these battery complaints come from. I have a 2G 20Gig iPod I purchased in April 2002. I have been using it almost every day and still consistently get about 10+ hours on the battery. Yes...the original battery.

Re:Battery life?

[D. Book]

According to the CNET review it get's 16 hours of playback.

You're giving the CNET article too much credit by calling it a "review". To quote the article:

A color screen is always a bonus, especially if it doesn't hamper battery life. The H320 has a rated battery life of up to an impressive 16 hours; it'll be interesting to see the real-world figures.

It will be interesting to see? When a site claims to have reviewed a product yet relies on a manufacturer claim for something they could've easily tested themselves, this should ring alarm bells. At least they sort of admit that they didn't quite do their job.

The reality is that the battery life virtually all iRiver (and many non-iRiver) products has been far below the claimed figure. Until the 16-hour claim is independently verified, we should assume the real-world battery life is significantly below that.

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

And the battery they're using today is, again, the largest capacity available at that size. And the battery life they get today is, again, 50% higher than what they got last year. So does this mean that the argument is, again, retarded?

As for having "less" features than the other players: I think it should be obvious to anyone who understands mathematics that the massive deficit in sales between more expensive, "under featured" iPod and its competitors should be proof that these features are not what sell a music device. That the folks that are willing to trade a good user interface for a stack of features and trade weight for battery life are a minority in the market.

Come on, recording? This isn't 1984. We're not holding our tape players up to the radio speakers. Recording is a very specific task that a music playback device does not need. If you're interested in recording, you probably want a device that was made to do that, not one that had it added on at the last second. FM? I'd never use it and I'd be pissed if they spent development time working out FM when I'd rather they spent it making iTunes even better. I bought a digital music player. I didn't buy a jackknife.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazing that the iPod just happens to fit 100% exactly to what you were looking for in a portable music player. That is one hell of a coincidence or you are one hell of a fanboy.
Apple must have been thinking of you when they developed it.

There is no deficiency in sales of other models. Search the web, you will find numbers that indicate the iPod has roughly 5-20% of the portable media player sales (and even those numbers are questionable). The thought that the iPod/iTMS combo is THE universial portable solution and taking the consumer industry by storm is a /. myth. Look at subscribership of the online music services other then iTMS, hell, even the Real networks numbers quoted from the last /. interview should clue you in. We all know marketing is what drives sales (Beta vs. VHS anyone?), the informed look past the PR effort and buy products that suit the needs what ever they may be, iPod or not. Wake up man.

Re:Battery life?

[jchoyt]

Come on, recording? This isn't 1984. We're not holding our tape players up to the radio speakers. Recording is a very specific task that a music playback device does not need. If you're interested in recording, you probably want a device that was made to do that, not one that had it added on at the last second. FM? I'd never use it and I'd be pissed if they spent development time working out FM when I'd rather they spent it making iTunes even better. I bought a digital music player. I didn't buy a jackknife

Yup. Recording. As in internal or external mic to do voice recordings as well as line in (normal and optical) to pull a signal right off my stereo. I used it when I was talking to my grandparents about family history so I didn't have to take notes. I use it to convert all my tapes - yes cassette tapes - to wav files. Then, because I can just plug it right into my Linux computer and it appears under /mnt/removable, I can move the wav files over, clean them up, convert them to ogg files and move them back. The wav files? They get burned to a new CD. Now I have a digital backup of my cassette, which goes in the trash.

Is this a pain in the ass? Yeah, but I do them one at a time and it's a whole lot cheaper than replacing all those albums. My iRvier IHP-120 cost just a little less than the iPod at the time, had more disk space, a remote, twice the battery life (of the ipod AT THE TIME), and was the same size. Oh yeah FM is nice to have too, if you listen to talk radio a lot.

Am I trendy? No. Am I much happier than if I had an ipod? You bet - I played with both. The remote on my iHP-120 is way easier than ipod's scroll wheel. The naviation on the unit itself is harder to use, but when you have a remote, why the hell would I use the main unit's controls? All in all, the color screen is probably a waste. But for my $$, I'd take the extra features of the iriver over the "coolness" factor associated with the ipod any day.

Jeff

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

Actually, the iPod has a ton of features I don't need. So really, it's 150% of what I need. If being satisfied with a purchase and not seeing any reason to fuck with it just to add features I don't need is your definition of fanboy, I stand so defined.

Sorry your needs aren't being met. Maybe that's Apple's fault. Or maybe you have too many needs. Take a long, hard look at why you feel you need feature X: is it because you're doing X all the time and want to continue to do it, or because you might maybe do X, if you did it once and liked it, and want to be able to claim you have X support?

Incidentally, iPod sales numbers can be mucked with however you like. Analysts comparing units sold come up with different numbers that analysts who compare media player chip sales. Of course, media player chip sales are not a great metric, as these chips go into portable gaming devices, cell phones, and standard CD players. If you buy a cheap-o boombox and happend to discover it's got MP3 support (as I did last year), you're not competing with the iPod. In the only Apples to near-apples metrics we have -- non-convergent Hard drive and flash based media players sold in US, Europe and Japan -- APPL rules by a wide margin. But continue to quote whatever numbers allow you to hate Apple and us obnoxious, smiling fanboys. It will make you feel better about being ignored.

Re:Battery life?

[Friggo]

In the PMP-1[24]0 model...

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

when you have a remote, why the hell would I use the main unit's controls?

I dropped using the iPod's remote the second day I had it. What a waste. The flexibility of the iPod isn't playing a song, advancing one track, and then selecting a new album...it's setting up these huge, dynamic playlists using iTunes and adding your own on the fly.

I guess if I was doing forward and backward a lot, I would like a nice wireless remote to do it.

Incidentally, i've been doing a lot of vinyl conversions recently. I use my computer, since it has a pretty good ADC and is designed for flexibility. What I do is record the music straight to AAC. I guess I could add a step, but why?

Re:Battery life?

[cayenne8]

"Incidentally, i've been doing a lot of vinyl conversions recently. I use my computer, since it has a pretty good ADC and is designed for flexibility. What I do is record the music straight to AAC. I guess I could add a step, but why?"

If you're converting from vinyl (I'm guessing to archive and be able to play it now)....why are you 'ripping' it to a lossy format? Would it not be best to rip it to flac....for archival purposes...best copy possible. And from that...put it into the lossy format of your choice for iPod or iRivers?

Re:Battery life?

[Bj�rn]

Unatil the 16-hour claim is independently verified, we should assume the real-world battery life is significantly below that.

I have seen an independent comparison for an HP120, or possibly it was a HP140, that shows that the claimed battery life of 16 hours could be achieved, but only for constant bit rate low quality MP3s. Other formats were much more power hungry. So 16 hours is possibly true, just not the whole story. Sorry I don't have URL for the comparison any more.

Re:Battery life?

[ChuckleBug]

If being satisfied with a purchase and not seeing any reason to fuck with it just to add features I don't need is your definition of fanboy, I stand so defined.

See, around these parts, it's not possible to simply be someone who likes Apple products. If you dare to praise an iPod, or OS X, or anything Apple, you are a MINDLESS FANBOY. It means your house is festooned with Apple bumper stickers and posters, and you fantasize about fellating Steve Jobs.

On the other hand, if you mindlessly criticize anything Apple, and relentlessly call its defenders fanboiz, you are a clear-headed and objective industry pundit with a license to condescend. You are also a 7337 rebel who understands Apple sucks ass because of its failure to support the ogg vorbis juggernaut.

So please, drop the pretense of being a reasonable person who is also a satisfied Apple customer. You can't fool slashdot. We know you don't exist.

Whoops! Gotta go - it's time for us to face Cupertino and pray.

Re:Battery life?

[zurab]

Yeah, it's great to have a Lithium Ion

CNet review says H320 comes with a Lithium Polymer battery, just slightly better than Lithium Ion, AFAIK.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the iPod has a ton of features I don't need.

It has a ton of features NOBODY needs. Address book?!?

Re:Battery life?

[damiam]

I doubt color has anything to do with the legibility of your screen. Black on white is the highest-contrast, easiest-to-read color combo available for humans. My (BW) iPod screen is quite legible in pretty much all light conditions, whereas some color screens I've seen are really horrible.

Re:Battery life?

[damiam]

Battery life depends on usage. The 8 hour figure is for 128kbps music, played continuously at normal volume with no other activity. If you're playing WAVs, managing your contacts, and skipping every other track with the backlight on, it's gonna be a lot less than that. Likewise, if you play it for an hour and stop, wait a week, and start again, you're not gonna have the fuill seven hours left.

My iPod got eight hours when I got it (last January) and it gets about seven now. Since I've never been on a commute longer than seven hours, that's fine with me. The iPod won't let you fully discharge the battery; it shuts off when you get close.

On DRM CDs: anything that will play in a normal CD player can be uploaded to any MP3 player. I don't see CDs that don't play in CD players having any kind of market success, so that's not something I'd worry about in the next few years.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did you get a black and white iPod? The one's I've seen have more of dark gray on light gray. To have true black and white you actually need a color screen.

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

Actually, I've used that. Saved my ass, too. I have a good Address Book in OSX, mostly because I like to assign photos to the vCards of people I email frequently. I exported it to the iPod, because i could. I promptly forgot about it.

Six months later I was out and about in Boston and my car broke down at the same time my cell phone battery died. I was able to call my buddy in Cambridge, who I haven't seen in six years, because I had his phone number on the iPod.

Might as well make as many useful copies of data as you can.

Re:Battery life?

[jchoyt]

>when you have a remote, why the hell would I use the main unit's controls?

I dropped using the iPod's remote the second day I had it. What a waste. The flexibility of the iPod isn't playing a song, advancing one track, and then selecting a new album...it's setting up these huge, dynamic playlists using iTunes and adding your own on the fly.

I guess if I was doing forward and backward a lot, I would like a nice wireless remote to do it.

Incidentally, i've been doing a lot of vinyl conversions recently. I use my computer, since it has a pretty good ADC and is designed for flexibility. What I do is record the music straight to AAC. I guess I could add a step, but why?

Can't speak for the iPod remote, but the iRiver one is great - you can do ANYTHING from it, and it has a nice, backlit, display.

As far as huge playlists, I can use winamp or, in my case, a perl script (I know. I'm a geek - deal with it). Dynamic playlists is one of those features iRiver has been promising for a long time now and hasn't delivered. People are pissed. I tend to turn on my player and just let 'er run so it's not big deal for me.

Recording directly to your computer is fine when you have your source right there. Mine's in another room of the house, so isn't an option. Having a few ounce recorder was required.

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

Oh, I'm not ripping from vinyl for archival purposes. That'd be sort of a dumb idea, seeing as how the vinyl itself will outlast anything I back it up to. I have discs from 1932 that still aound great...I seriously doubt I will be listening to my CDs in 2076.

I'm ripping the vinyl because I don't have it on CD (some of it isn't available on CD) and I want to listen on the iPod, include it in playlists for parties, etc.

Since I don't have a lot of space (only 80 gig, that's as big as laptop hard drives get), I rip to the best sounding format I can use where I need to with the smallest footprint. That's AAC for now.

Re:Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not everyone is a fanboy. The ones that constantly ask why some feature is on a new player and constantly put down a different player because it has a different feature that the iPod does not count as a fanboy IMO. The excuse runs along the lines of I don't need that feature, the iPod is perfect the way it is, the Apple is perfect blah blah, those are the key words. Someone that does not have an iPod reading /. would never get a real objective opinion on the iPod because the fanboys claim it is 120% the best product ever made and NOTHING needs changed or upgraded, leave it the way it is for 10's of years!!! It has no downsides etc..
It happened with the portable mp3/video player in previous weeks, it happened today and it has happened before. Same with claiming Real has no business messing with the iPod somehow claiming Apple will now have to support Reals implementation and Apple should not let others interact with iTMS or the iPod. Statisticaly on /., people want interoperability and the ability to manipulate hardware and software, somehow this concept is completely lost when Apple or the iPod is mentioned. iPod fanboys are against this concept in the name of Apple!!. There was a reply last week in a story that was modded +5 that claimed Apple users were less likely to pirate software based on some sales figures of Photoshop, like Apple has anything to do with that. The concept of fanboyism is not limited to Apple but to the casual /. reader, it is very obvious when dealing or mentioning Apple.

Re:Battery life?

[dasmegabyte]

Understood...I should have pointed out that I have a laptop, so my computer can go wherever I like it to, and before that I had a computer that was the center of my media empire so the 8 track, reel to reel, record player and the Nakamichi Dragon were all chained to it, anyway, to get the analog components of my system converted to digital to pass to the amplifier.

I have since gone off the idea of digital amplification. It's a pain in the ass and good cabling and attentive grounding usually result in better sound. Converting said analog devices to digital, I can use their meta-data in massive hands-off playlists effortlessly. It's also greatly simplified my preferred audio setup, which makes my wife happy. She hates cables all over everything, not to mention the heat and all that electricity. She'll actually use the stereo now, just plugs her iBook into the monitors and plays stuff from my iTunes library (though I should bite the bullet and buy a couple Airport Express units).

Re:Battery life?

[theLOUDroom]

My guess is that it uses the same battery as my own iriver ihp-120, who's battery can be purchased at the following linklink for $40

At leat for the ihp series, the battery is user replaceable, provided the user has a tiny torx screwdriver and some patience.

Re:Battery life?

[FruitCak]

considering it doesnt have a lithium ion battery you might want to read up before bagging it. it comes with a lithium polymer battery, which are considerably safer (you cant over charge them and cause em to explode) and they dont have the memory problems of an ion battery

Re:Battery life?

[Shanep]

Lots of my friends have iPods and about 2 weeks ago (in Sydney Australia) I purchased an iRiver H340.

I am very happy that I did, the sound is fantastic, the screen is GORGEOUS, very bright and high contrast. I LOVE my iRiver and am happy I didn't go for an iPod.

My 40GB iRiver also claims 16 hours on one charge.

The iRiver gets charged from the USB port too, so using it as an external hdd does not suck like it can with most iPods.

BTW, the colour screen is very legible in the bright Sydney sunlight.

Re:Battery life?

[damiam]

I've never used an iRiver, so I can't comment on the relative merits, but I'd just like to point out that the 4G iPods can charge from USB (as well as FireWire, of course).

Re:Battery life?

[Shanep]

I've never used an iRiver, so I can't comment on the relative merits, but I'd just like to point out that the 4G iPods can charge from USB (as well as FireWire, of course).

Yeah, that's why I said most iPods.

penisbird link

[Anonymous Coward]

don't go there

Re:penisbird link

[erotic_pie]

agreed, do NOT follow that link, especially if you are at work. it's not gmail invites

Re:penisbird link

[Anonymous Coward]

you realize that more people (according to my hits counter) click on the links when you point it out and get modded up? Just letting you know that you have lost

Firmware

[The_Real_Nire]

Hopefully now that this is about done for the US, they will get their act together and concentrate on the firmware updates for the rest of us, instead of ignoring existing customers.

Re:Firmware

[justforaday]

now why would they do that? they already have your money...

/cynical bastard

Re:Firmware

[Scud]

I've heard this before, but what exactly is wrong with the firmware? I've been to the iRiver site and saw the complaints, but didn't pick up on any of the specifics.

My only gripe is that tiny button on the front.

Re:Firmware

[joseph schmo]

Amen.

I bought an H140 6 months ago, and they put a schedule of firmware updates on their site: one for May and one for June (each to add features / fix things).

I think they put out a beta firmware a few weeks ago (late Aug or early Sep).

I still think at the time that this player was the right one for me, but an evaluation of the company has to play a part when you're spending a few hundred. I don't think I researched them as well as I should have knowing what I do now.

The iRiver forum is a nightmare wasteland of complaints from 12 year olds who bought the $40 model to irate long-time users waiting on THEIR particular firmware updates.

Just so you know :)

Re:Firmware

[usrusr]

i have an old imp-100 (well actually branded as the "rio volt" version of it, completely different company behind the rio name back then, and iriver itself did not exist outside of korea), which is really ancient by today's standards. (cd-rom player, stupidly small display etc, probably one of the first players with flashable firmware at all).

and iriver still surprises us with a little firmware update now and then, and no, that's not because the release version was so crappy (most of it's non-flashable competitors back then were considered more bug-ridden in reviews of those days) but solid feature updates.

what really counts...

[jj00]

It looks ugly

Re:what really counts...

[jj00]

It looks ugly

What? Modded down because I feel that no one will buy the device because it doesn't look good?
When you sell something like this, isn't look and feel a MAJOR consideration?

Re:what really counts...

[I_Want_This_ID]

You were probably modded down because how something looks is purely subjective. Ipod snobs will remark that ANYTHING that isn't Ipod looks ugly.

Rest assured that the design has been a MAJOR consideration. YOU might not like it. Extreme design (where people have a strong love it/hate it viewpoint almost instantly) is becoming more and more common in products. Get used to things you consider ugly.

Re:what really counts...

[jchoyt]

What? Modded down because I feel that no one will buy the device because it doesn't look good? When you sell something like this, isn't look and feel a MAJOR consideration?

Actually, no. :o)

Fine print...

[RenHoek]

1GB equals 1,000,000,000 bytes, not all memory space available for file storage.

Euhm, so.... how much space DO we have left? Could be anything really.. Damn marketing speak!

Re:Fine print...

[twbecker]

Is that really a suprise? Pretty much ALL manufacturers use 1 million MB to mean a GB now. My 20GB iPod only has 18.5GB of usable space on it. You'd think they would stop this practice, considering how many "My new x GB hard drive is busted! It only has x-y GB of space!" support calls they get.

Re:Fine print...

[Nos.]

Whatever happened to that lawsuit against hard drive manufacturers. It seems to me there was a group suing Maxtor, Samsung, etc. over this issue. Selling a "120GB" drive and it only having about 110GB of usable space. I did some googling but couldn't find anything.

Re:Fine print...

[samberdoo]

That would be correct for telecom folks but just to be more accurate, in computer related terms 1 GB is 1,073,741,824 bytes (1028**3). Interesting to see coolness collide with functionality. $330 ouch.

Re:Fine print...

[Hinhule]

Lets just hope they picked something smaller than WinXP.

Marketingguy1 "But we got such a gooood deal, and the windows logo looks reeeally good on our color screen, it's animated and everything."
Marketingguy2 "Dude you almost forgot the best part, in the background the windows logon sound is on repeat. It's awesome and I think it'll really be a hit with the customers. We rule at subliminal messaging."

Re:Fine print...

[Tomahawk]

1 million MB to mean a GB
Shouldn't that be 1000MB to mean a GB, or 1million KB to mean a GB, or 1millionMB to mean a TB.

Get what your saying, though. Hard drives are always measured in millions, not in 2^20, of bytes.


T.

Re:Fine print...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean that they use 1 thousand MB to mean a GB. My harddrive gets ... very large when a GB is 1 MILLION MB.

Re:Fine print...

[OverlordQ]

It's not the Hard Drive manufacturers that need to stop the practice, it's all the users who dont know what a GB is.

20 GB = 20 * 10^9 Bytes = 20,000,000,000 Bytes
20 GiB = 20 * 2^30 Bytes = 21,474,836,480 Bytes

20 GB = 18.5 GiB.

bar = (foo * 10^9)/1073741824
Where foo is the Metric GB and bar is the Binary GiB.

Re:Fine print...

[twbecker]

Er, yeah. At least you knew what I meant ;)

Re:Fine print...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. Standard usage in terms of memory. Mega/Giga/Kilo are base 2.

This is also what Windows and other OS's report.

The confusing bit is that you get weird results depending on how the numbers are used. In marketing your hard drve:

Is 1GB 1,000 MiB, is it 1,000,000 kiB or is it 1,000,000,000B? Depending on where you take it, you get different numbers.

Now, since sectors are all 1/2kiB and the actual size is in an integer number of sectors, using base 2 is correct usage, since it is either that or use a lot of fractions or decimal points.

E.g. 2,000 sectors = 1MiB or 1.024MB (pure definitions). Easier to ask for a "1MB storage" than " one point 0h two four MB storage.

Re:Fine print...

[toddestan]

It's not the Hard Drive manufacturers that need to stop the practice, it's all the users who dont know what a GB is.

Keep in mind that the Hard Drive manufacturers were the ones who started all this nonsense in the first place.

Um.

[eddy]

Although it doesn't support .flac files like the Rio Karma, it does support .ogg,

That's pretty close to a contradiction since we have both Ogg FLAC and Ogg Vorbis. You meant to say it supports Vorbis? Or is it just plain FLAC files it doesn't support, but Ogg FLAC is fine?

Re:Um.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be stupid. It goes without saying that ".ogg" means "an Ogg Vorbis audio file".

Re:Um.

[tuffy]

That's pretty close to a contradiction since we have both Ogg FLAC and Ogg Vorbis. You meant to say it supports Vorbis? Or is it just plain FLAC files it doesn't support, but Ogg FLAC is fine?

I don't know of any player that supports Ogg FLAC, much less a hardware one. They're all content to use FLAC's native container format instead. From what I've seen, Ogg FLAC is more of a proof-of-concept format - at least until the Ogg plugins start supporting it.

Re:Um.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be stupid. It goes without saying that ".ogg" means "Ogg container file".

Re:Um.

[Anonymous Coward]

Until some other codec enters common use in Ogg containers, ".ogg" means "Ogg Vorbis". Theora isn't popular enough to conflate the two by simply saying "Ogg".

Re:Um.

[chrish]

The Rio Karma supports FLAC and Vorbis as well as the usual MP3 and WMA. And a docking station with Ethernet.

I'm enjoying mine quite a bit.

Re:Um.

[dasmegabyte]

More importantly, why does the thing support OGG files but not AAC files? We're talking about a multimedia standard created by the people who made MP3 and DVD and that's popularized by one of the most heavily used jukebox applications. And rather than support this great next generation format, iRiver chose Vorbis -- a standard backed by nobody, produced by volunteers with no commercial support whatsoever?

I've got no problem with OGG, but come on, guys...here I am with a 120 gig AAC library and I'm not going to convert that shit any time soon. It sounds good and works everywhere I need it to (MPlayer, iTunes, Winamp, iPod). You've made a device that could potentially replace my iPod when the hard drive goes...so why not make it easier for me to make the leap?

Re:Um.

[t482]

If the support is like their smaller players then it only supports ogg vorbis greater than 96Kbs

On my smaller iriver all my voice recordings in OGG Vorbis format will not play. I recorded several audio books at 46Kbs Ogg. Each AudioBook CD is 12 Meg and very clear. The iriver only works with oggs vorbis at over 96Kbs. I would like to see 32Kbs + Ogg Vorbis support. Speex support would be even better(8 kHz, 16 kHz, and 32 kHz). I had to re-record my audiobooks in mp3 with lame (at 26 Meg and lower quality). Ogg files at the required bit rate are 48 Meg.

Re:Um.

[hackstraw]

A little offtopic, but a rant that I want to express.

I'm getting sick of the whole container/codec thing. Noone knows whats inside of a .mov, .wmv, .ogg, etc file. I know whats in a .mp3, .wav, .aac or whatever. I have a Mac with the latest Windows Media Player and it will not play all .wmv files. There is no way that I can tell from a filename that I can even view the file after it downloads.

Every time /. posts an article about a portable music player there is the "Does it play flac and/or ogg?" And then people bring up the specific codecs inside of the .ogg file. If us technoweenies can't get it straight, how can anybody?

Am I the only one that has issues with these multimedia containers?

Re:Um.

[Anonymous Coward]

the parent is talking about container formats, not just codecs.

Re:Um.

[A Drake Man]

Not to mention all the services that are popping up to convert physical CD libraries to play on iPods. That's a BIIIIG market (with money to burn) to ignore.

Then again, if they were good at judging what REAL consumers wanted, they'd have OWNED the market long before the iPod.

Re:Um.

[Warped1]

My HP120 iRiver plays low bitrate ogg vorbis files just fine. I do remember seeing this as a fix though in the last firmware release a while ago.

Re:Um.

[usrusr]

"Vorbis -- a standard backed by nobody, produced by volunteers with no commercial support whatsoever"

you'd be surprised how many people consider that a feature not a bug. yes i don't want to sit in one of those trenches in the battle that some corps are fighting over proprietary codecs and container formats, even more so since most of them are highly entangled in interests of the content industry, either through being part of it themselves (sony, atrac-3), having to lick the feet of riaa and other drm lobbyists (apple aac, real + others) to get good deals for existing or planned commercial download things or just for The Desire To Control Everything (wma)

Re:Um.

[Quikah]

They are probably just trying to make the device as cheap as possible. so they choose wma over AAC since wma is much cheaper to license and ogg is free.

Re:Um.

[dasmegabyte]

Licensing AAC costs $.50. Sure, that's 5 times the cost of WMA, but it's still $.50. A good headphone jack costs more than that. If a company is too cheap to spend $.50 licensing a burgeoning standard for a $300 device, I won't be doing business with them. They're sure to cut corners in other areas as well.

Re:Um.

[sahonen]

Foobar2000

Re:Um.

[Zirtix]

Try

SomeMultiMediaFile.xvid.vorbis.ogm, SomethingElse.divx.mp3.avi

etc. A good idea, no? I hope it catches on...

Re:Um.

[Anonymous Coward]

No you don`t know whats in a WAV file.
It`s a container too.

Re:Um.

[Quikah]

Actually it is $0.50 per channel. so a stereo capable device will require a $1.00 fee.

Color screen but doesn't play videos? wow...

[JustNiz]

Seems to be a major oversight and a major reason why I wont buy one.

Re:Color screen but doesn't play videos? wow...

[Shinglor]

Yes it does

in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav)

Re:Color screen but doesn't play videos? wow...

[Emil Brink]

I doubt that. iRiver themselves, on the linked-to page, list the formats as

Supports MP3, WMA, ASF, WAV and OGG music files

while calling it the "sleek and compact H320 digital music player". It doesn't sound like a company to accidentally omit a rather major feature such as video playback support, in my opinion. So, my guess is we're just seeing more Slashdot quality editing/proofing. Move along...

Re:Color screen but doesn't play videos? wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why was this modded down? It's true and I was the first one to point it out.

Re:Color screen but doesn't play videos? wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

In case you haven't realized it by now... Posting a comment to an article is the best way of NOT getting the editor's attention. You must email timothy directly with a clear subject line.

Why no FLAC?

[jsweval]

It seems silly that it doesn't support FLAC, being a device with a large hard drive.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[tuffy]

It seems silly that it doesn't support FLAC, being a device with a large hard drive.

FLAC would be nice (and easy to add, since decoding it is all cheap integer ops), but the bitrate of the files is so high that the device would need to keep its hard drive spinning the whole time in order to play them - and that'd kill its battery life.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[Boolda]

I don't think bitrate is a reason. It does supports wav. And the battery life is a user space decision. Manfacturer should not prevent me draning my player's battery out for whatever may be ther reason.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[gabuzo]

FLAC would be nice (and easy to add, since decoding it is all cheap integer ops), but the bitrate of the files is so high that the device would need to keep its hard drive spinning the whole time in order to play them

On my Rio Karma, playing flac makes the hd spin about 5 seconds every minute. However it is probably a lot more than when playing a 64kpbs vorbis.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so silly when the iPod does not support FLAC, Apple fanboys call the lack of support a feature and are proud that Apple does not support it. Just ask them.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[dasmegabyte]

Really? That's a pretty shitty buffer, then. The iPod has 32 meg, which is good enough for a 6 minute ALC file.

Re:Why no FLAC?

[labratuk]

How would that be any worse than playing a wav file?

Semantics, semantics...

[irokitt]

"Almost hits the market" is like "almost pregnant". Doesn't count. After all, Duke Nukem Forever has been "almost released" for about six years.

Re:Semantics, semantics...

[hype7]

"Almost hits the market" is like "almost pregnant".

Is that speaking from experience? :)

-- james

Re:Semantics, semantics...

[debrain]

"Almost hits the market" is like "almost pregnant". Doesn't count. After all, Duke Nukem Forever has been "almost released" for about six years.

Well, the implication of being "almost pregnant" is that there's lots of trying going on, and that can be an Ok thing too.

Re:Semantics, semantics...

[zsau]

The thing is, I bought mine a few weeks ago (in Australia). Quite a nice device, apart from the remote. Also, Ogg Vorbis files seem to eat the battery life; I have to charge it after two days.

Re:Semantics, semantics...

[Shanep]

"Almost hits the market" is like "almost pregnant". Doesn't count. After all, Duke Nukem Forever has been "almost released" for about six years.

I bought my (awesome) H340 on 9/9/04 in Sydney .au. I'm listening to it right now in fact.

BTW, anyone in Sydney looking for one, I got my H340 at JB Hi Fi, for $5 more than the cheapest price I could find anywhere for the H320 ($689 au inc GST, at the time)!

I know one thing....

[jwcorder]

I don't know about the player but I know the chick that is holding the player in all those magazine ads they just launched (see this month's STUFF) has HUGE knockers.....

I am giving away gmail invites for the first three people to signup for freeipods.com under my referrer id. Follow the link below.

Re:I know one thing....

[Anonymous Coward]

good luck finding anybody not signed up for that pyramid scheme yet.

Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to the link and there is no penisbird there. You are a lying troll.

US release?

[Billy69]

I'm a bit confused by this. 2 weeks ago I went to my local branch of Richer Sounds and was offered one of these when I asked for an iHP140. The showed me it, I prodded it a bit. So, does this 'taking advance orders' thing apply only to the US release?

Re:US release?

[Billy69]

P.S., it looked pretty cool, until they took it out of the box. It is very thick.

Re:US release?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had one for 2 weeks, bought in a shop on Tottenham Court Road in London. UK websites have been selling them for weeks too.

Re:US release?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed - they are already on display and sale at JB HiFi, Lonsdale St. Melbourne. Next to iPods, no less. Now, they may not be as pretty as an iPod, but by damn they're featureful...

For all those dismissive of the iPod's interface,

[burgburgburg]

take a look at the frickin' mess of an interface on this thing! Yeech.

On a separate note, why are they putting off until a later firmware update the ability to view pictures and listen to music at the same time? Shouldn't that have been one of the top priority jobs? Shouldn't they wait until they have that done?

But does it have AAC?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know the answer's no. Yawn.

Re:But does it have AAC?

[chrish]

Audio for Anonymous Cowards?

Why Never An AM Tuner?

[jetkust]

Can you radio experts help me out on this one? Why do mp3 players never have an AM tuner? Always FM only, but most talk radio comes in AM, it seems only natural that they would include this. What's the holdup.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[vladoman]

Because they all use the TEA5757 tuner chip or similar, this one only has FM capabilities.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[NeoSkandranon]

Because very few people listen to AM radio these days? (as compared to FM at any rate)

The only time I've turned the AM band on in my car since i got it (aside from accidentally) was to check traffic reports from a "tune to this band if these lights are flashing" sign

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[iBod]

Not exactly sure, but possibly: 1) A built-in AM antenna (ferrite rod type) is too bulky to fit inside the case. With FM you can use the headphone cord as an antenna. 2) The noise generated by the clock signals of the player's circuitry would affect AM reception too much. FM is generally broadcast on higher frequencies than AM and stands up better to interference.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[SalsaDot]

I can think of a coupla reasons
AM being lower frequency than FM (max 1.7MHz rather than 108MHz) needs bigger, bulkier tuning coils.

Usually, the biggest coil in an AM radio is the ferrite rod - which is also the antenna. FM has the benefit of using the headphone wire as an antenna rather than the ferrite rod, tucked in amongst lots of nice noisy digital circuitry.

Add to this the very nature of AM being more susceptable to interference, the expense of a good quality wideband AM tuner (in that noisy environment) and you see why manufacturers steer away from it.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[megalomang]

I think the main purpose of the AM tuner would be to achieve Tivo-like functionality on a radio. If you listen to AM talk radio, you would know that there is about 50% content and 50% commercials. To me, this is not an acceptable compensation for my time, therefore I will not listen to talk radio for any prolonged period of time. But if I could Tivo the radio (for a reasonable cost) I would definitely listen to AM more.

Here is an AM Tivo-like product, but it is $150. The sad thing is that it is probably 80% redundant (except for the AM tuner) with other MP3 players that can record from FM. I don't want a 2nd mp3 unit though. Why can't I pay $50 extra for a nice mp3 player that has the functionality I want?

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[Realistic_Dragon]

In Europe there are almost no AM stations left, so you would be adding functionality half the market would not use. (I suspect that Japan and large chunks of Asia are the same.)

Now, a Long Wave tuner so that I could pick up Radio4LW and the cricket, that would be worth having.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[Kiryat Malachi]

2 is wrong.

AM is more subject to interference than FM due to the modulation method used, not due to the frequency. AM at 88-107 MHz is susceptible to interference just like AM at 560-1600 kHz. AM carries its information in the amplitude of the signal; FM carries it in the instantaneous frequency. Noise is (generally treated as) additive in amplitude, meaning that in AM noise adds directly to the message, while in FM noise only indirectly affects the message via how it changes the instantaneous frequency. In addition, in FM interference is inversely proportional to carrier amplitude, while in AM it is independent.

The analysis to prove it is pretty complex, but basically - angle-modulation methods (PM and FM) have higher noise immunity by design than amplitude modulation; the cost is they require greater bandwidth. It has very little to do with the frequency they run at.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody wants to listen to regular old AM when Digital Radio is just around the corner. Software receiver at sourceforge

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[SomeOtherGuy]

" Because very few people listen to AM radio these days? (as compared to FM at any rate)"

Hu? If you add up all the sports junkies with the Rush Limbaugh (sp?) crowd....you have a VERY large market.

My theory is this: If you feel the need to have 20 G of music in your pocket it is most likely because you don't want to listen to the same 6 or 7 songs on your FM dial - so FM to me is wasted. However, you can't compete canned recordings against 24 hours of live sports, news or politics with live audience interaction on todays topics. If you record then the time shift makes things to dated.

Re:Why Never An AM Tuner?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only MP3 player I know of that has FM tuning is the PoGo Products RipDrive [http://reviews.cnet.com/PoGo_Products_RipDrive_20 GB/4505-6490_7-30790750.html}...or I should say KNEW of. Went on PoGo's site today, and it said NEW! RipDrive, and did not list AM tuning as a feature. I believe the main reason MP3 player manufacturers leave this feature off is because AM tuning requires a different technology than that of FM tuning, so adding the AM (on top of FM) would would add extra bulk to the players (horrors!).

Does it run Linux?

[clevelandguru]

Does it run linux?

Re:Does it run Linux?

[carrett]

Probably. iPods do. I think it's just a matter of finding hackers that are crazy (or bored) enough to set it up.

A color screen...

[MetalliQaZ]

...but no support for video?
What a waste. If i wanted to look at my digital pictures on a tiny display, i'd look at them on the camera that took them.

Re:A color screen...

[skiflyer]

Yeah, but the cool about the iHP-320 is that it can host your camera's USB. So you can ahead and offload 20gigs (or 40 for the iHP-340) worth of pictures onto the hard drive and keep snapping away. You get a nice portable ton of storage for alot less than high capactiy flash cards which are still nowhere near 40 gigs.

you sure? Re:Color screen but doesn't play videos?

[hpulley]

Are you sure? The synopsis may say it supports video formats but neither the product page nor the review indicate that any video formats will work. What is your source for the video functionality?

My Opinions

[elynnia]

I personally got an E340 (40GB, same type) a few weeks back, and - being a 2G iPod owner I have a few comments about the good and the bad: The good: Recording features (internal/external mic, line-in), 40GB, file browser, FM radio, connection to USB Mass Storage devices directly, and -line out-. The bad: Here's where the Apple really beats the iRiver - the buttons make scrolling through a big list of songs/artists/albums slow, very limited settings for EQ, no option to play groups such as -all songs by Artist- (The iRiver, although comes with a -rather bad- databasing application, organises songs internally through the filetree), no LCD Remote (which is standard on the H100 series), no on-the-go playlists, and the LCD turns itself off after 20 seconds (can be changed) to save the battery. Having said that, the E300 series is one of the best MP3 players out there, but if you want ease of use and everything to work together I'd recommend the iPod...if you're a feature-hungry music geek (like me) then the E300 series, IMO, is for you. *~Aly~*

Re:My Opinions

[gorbachev]

I own an iRiver SlimX 350 CD based mp3 player, which has the same filetree based song list.

Since I only play the whole CD whenever I use the unit, I personally don't mind that.

However, if I did want to filter what songs I played based on artist, what I would probably do was to organize the files I transfer to the player in a manner that would help me do that. I sort of do that already.

I organize the songs into directories as follows:

Artist1
Album1
Album2
Artist2
Album1
Album2

This way I can always play a single album, or all songs by any artist, if I wish to.

Songs on compilation albums won't get "indexed" under the particular artist, of course.

If you only play music that you burn from your own CDs, this method is very easy to do by simply tweaking your ripping software settings a little bit. Every one of them can rip music into that sort of a directory structure.

If you download (pirated) music from the Internet, then you're going to have to do a lot of manual organizing though. Very annoying, but in the end, I think it's really worth it (there're other benefits to organizing your music this way as well).

Re:My Opinions

[Scud]

What do you think of the new scroll button? Is it easier to use than the 100 series?

I've got big hands...

Re:My Opinions

[Mant]

, no option to play groups such as -all songs by Artist- (The iRiver, although comes with a -rather bad- databasing application, organises songs internally through the filetree)

That is a bit sucky, I have an iHP140, and I can just go to the Artist option, choose the artist, then under the list of albums there is "Select All".

Shame they seem to be taking features out of the newer ones.

Re:My Opinions

[aardwolf204]

(The iRiver, although comes with a -rather bad- databasing application, organises songs internally through the filetree)

This is the one thing I cant stand about the iPod. Who was the smart ass that decided to list songs by artist / album from the ID3 tags! I've got my entire collection in folders just the way I want it. What a shame, none of the ID3 taggers Ive found are any good.

Re:My Opinions

[Compact Dick]

The iRiver ... comes with a -rather bad- databasing application

There is another iRiver database creation program out there. The good news it's stable. The bad news is you need the .latest NET framework installed for it to run.

Re:My Opinions

[jludwig]

I would like to stress the no on-the-go playlisting here... I recently (4 days ago) got a iHP-140 and have since switched over to a iPod for this reason. There is no ability to queue songs on the iRivers! This means you must develop playlists ahead of time on the computer -or- be happy with playing whole albums/genres. I thought this feature was such a no-brainer every mp3 player would have one...

The navigation was a little difficult to figure out and out of the box search by artist or song name doesn't work. You need to download iRivium or some 3rd party software they recommend. iRiver makes a really quality device (killer battery, good construction) but the firmware/documentation area is terrible! Its almost like they don't want to be number #1...

So I swithced to an iPod (not a Mac zealot) very happy altho I had to reformat my HD since windows was not installed on c: ... If we could one get player that works... ;)

Jeff

Re:My Opinions

[Anonymous Coward]

very limited settings for EQ

Is this actually true? I've heard people make the same complaint about the iRiver 100-series, but they just failed to look under the SRS menu (where there are _tons_ of EQ settings). Are you sure you looked everywhere? :)

Re:My Opinions

[ranchdudes]

I use "ID3-TagIT 3" and going from directories/filename to ID3 is very easy. I have perfectly catalogued about 130GB of music with it over the last year, sorted by folder/filename and ID3 info. I use ID3v2 only.

http://www.id3-tagit.de/

Re:My Opinions

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, thats the ID3 tagging software I was using. I've only got about 20 gigs of music but I dont know where I'm going to find the time to make sure all their tags are correct.

130GB, that must have taken forever.

low price too

[blanks]

Price starts at 330.00 for the 20 gig player. Not bad, considering this is not just an mp3 player, but a multimedia player.

16 hours of battery life, but really Im thinking that running the screen at all times would drop that to at least 10 or even 8 hours if your lucky.

Re:low price too

[elynnia]

The LCD cuts out after 20 (or can be changed) seconds to save the battery life.

Followup Article

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a follow up article over at Tech News Live!. Check it out.

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[Anonymous Coward]

and if you buy one of these, don't hold your breath for the "later firmware update". i had an H120 for a while, desperately waiting for 2 promised firmware updates (May and June of 2004). finally sold it in August. my major beef was dropped samples during audio line-in/mic recording. this is a major issue that should have stopped release of the product until it was resolved. no reputable audio manufacturer would release with such a bug. anyway, the device worked fine from a player standpoint, just just be away that FW updates will take forever, and responses from iRiver was all but non-existent.

storage

[alatesystems]

640KB should be enough for anybody.

This thing looks awesome. I might sell my free iPod and buy this.

Chris

Re:storage

[Silver Sloth]

I remember when they (well M$) said that about memory for PCs!

mod abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever modded this down but the other post up needs to have their priveliges revoked. You are aupposed to mod ALL OFFTOPIC POSTS offtopic. You people are hypocrites.

How much space do you need?

[sstidman]

Speaking for myself, I would not be able to use up 20 GBytes. I'm kind of lame, though.

For the rest of you, I'm curious ... how much space would be the ideal maximum?

Re:How much space do you need?

[marshmeli]

I would want 40 gig (i am prob going to get a 40 gig iPod but am waiting to see what they will be coming out with in a year or so (i can wait to buy the 40 gig one, ill just get another person to sign up under my freeipod.com account.

I would want as much space as possible. I dont have an enormous amount of CDs (about 128 that i listen too often) or mp3s, but I have many live recording of bands (all bands, well 99% are, of bands that support recording and trading of their shows) and I would live to have those shows on there to listen too)

Re:How much space do you need?

[mobby_6kl]

> how much space would be the ideal maximum?

640KB should be enough for everyone.

Seriously, there is no such thing as enough space. I've got a 60GB Zen a few month ago and now it's about 80% full. I don't know what I'm gonna do when it's full, deleting songs each time I want to listen to something else which is not there yet would really suck.

Re:How much space do you need?

[PriceIke]

As the owner of a 40GB iPod, and one that is on its way to being filled up, probably in another year or two .. I would say 80GB would be the ideal maximum for me.

I am one of those people who buy a CD, rip it immediately and then never listen to the original CD again. Continuing to do that will fill the thing up because I need new music every month or so. But then it's not necessary to have ALL my music on the Pod all the time. As long as I've got plenty of room to store it on my computer, I can keep a big enough selection for my needs on the Pod to take with me.

I still think 80GB would be the ideal.

Re:How much space do you need?

[Silver Sloth]

I currently use 23Gb on my mp3 server and it's rising every day. Of course I don't play all of it every day but I found with CDs (I've 500+) the ones I put in the attic were the ones I suddenly wanted to hear!

Re:How much space do you need?

[Paulrothrock]

I'd love a 40 GB iPod because I could also use it as a backup HD. There are several utilities out there that will let you sync files to the iPod automagically. Very handy in the event of a HD crash like the one I experienced two weeks ago.

Oh, unless of course you're using it with a PC.

Re:How much space do you need?

[chrish]

I've got my entire CD collection encoded as Ogg Vorbis, and it's around 40GB. But that includes stuff I don't need to listen to (like my wife's Celine Dion collection and Christmas discs), so a 40GB player would probably keep me satisfied for a long time.

20GB on my Rio Karma is mostly full, but I did have to leave a few good things off of it the first time I loaded it up.

Re:How much space do you need?

[Kiryat Malachi]

I do that with my PC. I do it manually, but I see no issue with doing it automatically - I assume utilities to automatically mirror to an external hard drive exist for the PC.

Re:How much space do you need?

[firefarter]

I've usually got about 800-300Mb free on my 20Gb Karma. 20Gb is much too little for a music-lover - and I even have everything ripped to q3 (~112Kb)ogg!

I try to rotate the songs, but that means I always have to decide what not to listen to...

Re:How much space do you need?

[TractorBarry]

Well I'd like at least 3 Tb (possibly 6) on removable disks. One for in the player plus one for current backup, plus one for offsite backup.

That way I could rip to WAV as I for one can hear the difference between a WAV and an MP3 (even encoded at high bit rates)

That way I would finally be bothered to digitise my entire music collection which comprises all sorts of stuff including vinyl (even a few 78s !), CDs, DAT, Cassette and 1/4 inch reel to reel.

Anything less just isn't an option ;)

Re:How much space do you need?

[angle_slam]

There is never enough space. I have started encoding my collection. I don't think I've done even 25% of it yet. But I have 50 GB of MP3s (most of it VBR at around 192 kbps). What's the largest mini hard drives out?

H340 listed on their site, too.

[DeeKayWon]

They're also making a 40GB version as well. But what I'd like to know is, are they going to work harder at making it available than they did for the iHP-140?

When I was looking for a 40GB player (yes, my music collection plus use as a portable HDD necessitates 40GB for me), I could find quite a few local places that had the iHP-120, but no one who had the iHP-140. Heck, it was even a pain finding any online store in Canada that had it.

I ended up buying an iPod since I could have it in my hands right when I purchased it, get a student discount and not have to pay any shipping.

AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[sczimme]

When radio first became popular, I believe all stations were AM. When FM technology gained ground and passed AM, the AM market began to decrease. Currently talk radio is the primary reason for using AM, but since a lot of programs are available on AM and FM stations (often the AM will have an FM counterpart) there is a relatively small demand for AM these days. Adding parts/manufacturing expense - thus increasing the cost of the final product - to support AM is seen as a losing proposition (low to negative ROI for the PHBs in the audience).

I like AM. The signals propagate much further than FM, and late at night one can pull in AM stations from hundreds of miles away. However (for me) this is an amusing sidebar: the [lack of] support for AM wouldn't be a dealbreaker in the MP3 player purchase decisionmaking process.

/Buzzword Bingo is fun
/leverage your synergy!

Re:AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[Paulrothrock]

I don't know what market you're in, but 'round my parts there's no AM station that simulcasts on FM.

It's a waste of bandwidth to transmit voice only over FM. It can be served by the quality of an AM transmission without wasting an FM signal.

Re:AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[AKnightCowboy]

AM is king. I can't get Rush Limbaugh on FM around here, but the 50,000 watt AM station is reachable for dozens (maybe hundreds at night) of miles around.

Re:AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[Anonymous Coward]

You say that like the entire FM band is not already being wasted on clearchannel clone channels...

I know that I prefer to listen to talk radio on FM (if it is available), the voices sound better, and it is more enjoyable. However, AM has greater range, so a simulcast makes sense to me.

Re:AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't get Rush Limbaugh on FM around here,

you say it like it is a bad thing. The pundits on both sides annoy me greatly. They do not discuss topics as much as just attack people without a good argument or any discussion.

Re:AM is essentially deprecated in the US market

[The Conductor]

Remember the days when you bought FM converters to hear FM on your car's AM radio? You can do the reverse with an AM radio and wireless-mike-type FM transmitter. Either that or use the line-in jack.

Flac files are great...

[Anita Coney]

But I'm not sure why you'd want them on a portable system. Can anyone really tell the difference between an OGG file and a Flac file via headphones while riding in a subway, walking in the street, or driving in your car?!

I consider Flac more appropriate for home entertainment systems.

Re:Flac files are great...

[Elementalor]

Because I may want to connect it to my Hi-Fi system in a nice, small and convenient player thanks to the decent 20mW output :) Btw, I am definitely going to buy the 40GB player :)

Re:Flac files are great...

[hackstraw]

But I'm not sure why you'd want them on a portable system. Can anyone really tell the difference between an OGG file and a Flac file via headphones while riding in a subway, walking in the street, or driving in your car?!

Some wierdos like me actually archive their music in lossless formats so that they can enjoy them for years to come. I'm looking to buy a 40Gig player soon myself, and flac would be a nice feature so that I don't have to take the time to encode my music into some other format. To me its more important to be able to quickly swap out my music on my portable vs put more on it. And with flac compression you typically get 50% reduction in filesize, and with a 40Gig disk that equals to over 120 hours of music (about 120 CDs worth). Thats not bad, and to be able to simply delete old files and drag and drop new ones onto the device without any encoding would be very nice.

Re:Flac files are great...

[cens0r]

The reason for me is obvious. I rip all my cd's to FLAC for archival purposes. If the player doesn't support FLAC I either have to transcode as I transfer, which slows the process down. Or I have to have another directory that contains everything in MP3 as well. It would just be simpler for me if the device played FLAC.

Re:Flac files are great...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, FLAC does sound good, but I really only notice it on my home system. That's why I convert all the mp3s I download into FLAC for home use. For portable use, I just use the mp3 versions.

Re:Flac files are great...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yer kiddin', right?
Converting MP3 to FLAC does not restore lost information/sound quality.
The only reason you might detect a difference is the relative quality of the MP3 decoders involved in playing versus transcoding.
You might as well keep the MP3s and save the space.

Re:Flac files are great...

[Fweeky]

Sure I'd want them there. I might not be able to tell the difference, but that's beside the point; I have 40G of FLACs and converting them to a lossy format is time and effort I'd rather spend elsewhere. Well, it's not exactly effort in foobar2000, but I have better things to do than wait for hours worth of progress bars to fill up just so I can carry around some music.

If any of these players supported MusePack I might be happier; they encode much quicker despite being of generally higher quality and at similar bitrates. Very well suited to home/lossless away/lossy use IMO.

Re:Flac files are great...

[Anonymous Coward]

But I'm not sure why you'd want them on a portable system.

Sharing.

(Legal of course; there is an increasing amount of music distributed in FLAC that the artists allow you to redistribute (etree, furthurnet, Net Labels, Open Source Audio, etc.)

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the interface is pretty good. It DOES take some getting used to, but once that is over, it works well and is very positive in use.

The remote is just icing on the cake.

YMMV, though.

Followup Article

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a follow up article over at Tech News Live!. Check it out.

microphone input

[StripedCow]

When are these portable players/recorders going to include a decent (high-quality) microphone input. I mean, as opposed to offering some cheap 'voice-recorder' option. It would be really nice if I could record concerts, and the like, with near-original sound-quality. Until now, this seems only possible with a Sony MiniDisc.

Re:microphone input

[Anonymous Coward]

The H140 comes with an external mic input (and an external mic) as well as its internal mic.
Now I'm not the biggest audiophile in the world, but the external mic input with a decent mic attached has given me very good sound quality. People have done pretty good bootlegs with it, player in pocket & mic in hand.

Re:microphone input

[NeoSkandranon]

Near original sound quality? I take it you don't mean just holding a mic up in the crowd (the method used by most minidisk owners I'm aquainted with)

Re:microphone input

[StripedCow]

I take it you don't mean just holding a mic up in the crowd

Well, it depends. If you are one of the performers, then I'm sure you can find a better place for the microphone.

Re:microphone input

[mretallack]

The iHP-120 comes with an internal mic, an external mic (via input). It also has a standard analog input and Optical digianl input for not just near-original sound quality, but exact original sound quality.

Re:microphone input

[humuhumunukunukuapu']

"but exact original sound quality."

no, because the original i-river's input was not bit-accurate. you may or may not notice the difference, but it will not be exact.

and you can only record [.wav] about 70 minutes without restarting.

the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 is the best option for cheap portable HDD recording.

Re:microphone input

[Anonymous Writer]

It would be really nice if I could record concerts, and the like, with near-original sound-quality.

Expect to hear from the RIAA soon. :P

Re:microphone input

[poot_rootbeer]

When are these portable players/recorders going to include a decent (high-quality) microphone input.

Most of Archos' current product line has a microphone input (via included line-in dongle; you have to provide the mic and preamp yourself).

I bought a MiniDisc recorder for the purpose of recording live music about three years ago, and in retrospect wish I hadn't (or more accurately, wish that portable HD audio devices like today's had existed back then). For one, the mic jack ran extremely hot, even without a preamp; I had to buy a $5 Radio Shack headphone attenuator and put it into the signal chain to get a recording that was anything but clipped-out digital noise. For another, none of the portable MD models support digital OUT; they all have SPDIF In, but the only way to get a signal OFF the device and onto a computer is to patch it's analog line-out to your PC's analog line-in.

Re:microphone input

[shaka]

Funny you should ask that, since all of the iRiver iHP/H Series players have built-in mic, (amplified) microphone input and line-in, as well as (IIRC) S/PDIF in and out, and has had this for years.

If you need really high quality, just get an amplified mic or external amplifier, or build your own.

Check your facts.

Re:microphone input

[hackstraw]

Expect to hear from the RIAA soon. :P

I love how much power people give to these weasles. The RIAA stands for the Recording Industry Association of America. They have no interest in concert recordings unless they have already been recorded and distributed by an record company that is a member of the RIAA.

Also there are 692 bands/artists listed here and available for easy download and another 1200 or so listed here that allow noncommercial recording and trading of their concerts.

Re:microphone input

[NeoSkandranon]

Owned ;-) Didn't think of that scenario

Re:microphone input

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want exact, then it will have to be a digital->digital recording.

The iHP 100 series has an optical input.

Use that.

Re:microphone input

[Anonymous Coward]

The iHP 120 (as someone else already mentioned, but I'll give more detail) includes an internal mic, an input for an external mic, and a small mic. The recording quality is, in my opinion, quite good (but I'm not an expert). One issue is that the internal mic will pick up the sound of the hard drive spinning, so it's not appropriate for high-quality recordings that last more than about 30 seconds (or maybe a few minutes if you are recording to MP3 -- presumably it could go longer without flushing to the hard drive in that case).

I recently used my new iHP 120 to record a concert (with permission). It worked reasonably well, though I had the recording volume too high for parts, so there is some clipping. Also, since it only records (in WAV format) for about 70 minutes, I had to try to find places to stop and restart the recording. Both stoping and starting take a few seconds.

I did have a few issues. First, there are some clicks in the recording. They are rare in some parts, but seem to occur every few minutes in other parts (later on -- perhaps as the battery got low?). They appear in the waveform as a larger-than-expected offset between two samples. That is, the amplitude jumps or drops abruptly. It's not a huge jump, but enough to hear if you listen carefully. My guess is that either it lost some samples or possibly did an abrupt volume adjustment. (I was accidentally using a feature that I think is supposed to auto-adjust the volume -- I forget what it's called.)

Finally, the battery almost didn't last the whole time. It was almost completely charged, but by the end it appeared to be nearly drained. I wasn't sure if I would get all of the last set. This was an all-day event, from around 2 to after 10. I didn't record all of it, only around maybe 4.5 hours, so I would have expected the battery to easily last the whole time. Maybe the battery life times are only for MP3 playback, not WAV recording. Maybe running the hard drive so much drained the battery quicker. Or maybe my battery is defective. I don't know.

Re:microphone input

[humuhumunukunukuapu']

it drops samples. it is not bit-accurate. digital to digital is not necessarily perfect.

'Plays up to 600 hours of digital music'

[kaleco]

Whoah, sure beats my iPod's 8 hour battery life!

Re:'Plays up to 600 hours of digital music'

[oGMo]

It sure does. My iHP-140 gets 14-16 hours per charge, and my SlimX gets 20+. I know an iFP device that's still running off the same AA battery it had in June.

Of course you can't play all 600 hours on one charge, but who knows which 16 hours they want before they leave?

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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Here it comes...

[taybin]

Get ready for a bunch of snarky reviews of it with either the title or hidden in the text somewhere: "cry me an iRiver". Bleh.

Whatever happened to. . .

[twbecker]

doing one thing, and doing it well? How many people seriously want to carry digital photos around wherever they go? I just don't get the color screen. I guess it's for the same people that like having a camera in their cell phone. True, the thing has an FM tuner and can record voice and radio. That's good, but it's also bulky, has a relatively poor interface and is $30 more expensive than an iPod, which /.ers already bash for being too pricey. Here's an idea: instead of giving us more bloat, why don't they just make the ultimate music player. One that will playback ALL major formats, has a good interface, and super long battery life. Although my iPod is great, it fails to meet 2 of these criteria. I guess we'll have to keep waiting. ..

Re:Whatever happened to. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

This plus a digital camera is a great combo in my mind. One of the issues with a digital camera is what to do when you run out of room for more photos when you are on a long vacation.

If you have a non-digital camera it's easy enough to run out and get more film.

With a digital camera you either have to spring for another flash card (or equivalent storage media), run through the photos and delete pictures you don't think you will want, or have some method to offload the photos while you are on vacation.

Previously there were very few methods to offload those photos besides having a laptop with you. Having a MP3 player with a large HD and easy ability to offload photos from a digital camera is a great solution in my mind (cheaper and easier to transport than that laptop).

The addition of a color screen to view those photos isn't completely necessary in my mind, but not a bad perk.

Re:Whatever happened to. . .

[Anonymous Writer]

How many people seriously want to carry digital photos around wherever they go?

Some of these devices have adapters that allow you to transfer digital photos from CompactFlash cards, SmartMedia cards, and the like. Being able to transfer digital photos onto a portable HD directly without a computer involved is useful for digital cameras when they become full. The iPod has adapters, even though it can't display the photos. With a device like this, at least you can see what you have transferred.

Re:Whatever happened to. . .

[Tenebrious1]

Whatever happened to... doing one thing, and doing it well? [snip] One that will playback ALL major formats, has a good interface, and super long battery life. Although my iPod is great, it fails to meet 2 of these criteria...

And you still bought an iPod. Things don't have to do one thing "well" to sell; the iPod does things "not quite as well as you'd like but is kinda slick and people think it's cool" so it sells.

And as long as people compromise and buy iPods, we'll never see a do-it-all fantastic player made for us geeks, because marketing will force the engineers to put in useless, frilly features like a static graphic display in a vain attempt to take sales away from Apple.

Re:Whatever happened to. . .

[Compact Dick]

The trouble with one-thing-only-well items is that you end up lugging around a houseload of the stuff.

I bought the H340 partly to replace my Vosonic XS Drive + 40 GB HDD; the colour screen is an added bonus. However, I hope iRiver provides a single-click transfer function, else it's too convoluted.

Re:Whatever happened to. . .

[Shanep]

One that will playback ALL major formats, has a good interface, and super long battery life. Although my iPod is great, it fails to meet 2 of these criteria. I guess we'll have to keep waiting.

iRiver H340 plays mp3, wma, ogg and asf, has a good interface (maybe not great) and 16 hours playing time.

It seems quick to transfer the files too. I transfered my whole collection, 20GB, in about 25 minutes.

Re: the colour screen, it is very nice. Very bright (even in sunlight) and high contrast. The sound is fantastic too, even with the standard Sennheiser headphones.

Lo-Fi

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Most people want an MP3 player to play music. A few play audio books, true, but music is the thing. AM radio is truly Lo-Fi, staticy and monophonic. That's why music stations moved to FM in the 60's. AM is suited to voice-only programming like talk radio and news. Why bother with it on a relatively expensive device that is primarily a music player? My suggestion is that if you want to listen to talk radio while jogging, buy a cheap armband radio and leave the expensive MP3 palyer at home.

Non-Windows support?

[PixelSlut]

I've never owned a device like this, but two of the features that it lists on the page are:

• Ultra-fast USB 2.0 transfers
• Supports secure transfers from Windows Media Player(TM)

Does anyone know how easy it is to transfer music to it from Linux? My Nikon digital camera lets me mount it like a USB hard drive and just drag files over in Nautilus or whatever. Does anyone know if this music player can do something like that? I do have Windows, with Media Player. But I don't want to boot over to Windows just to upload a couple songs.

Re:Non-Windows support?

[HerculesMO]

Drag and drop... it should pick up all the mp3 and ogg files it finds, and since it can be used as an external HD... you can easily use it for drag/drop.

Re:Non-Windows support?

[Mant]

The iRiver players use the USB mass storage standard, and work with any OS that recognises that. Just drag and drop with a file manager if you want.

WMP10 has special stuff for synching with remote devices, and transfering secure WMA files, which this also does. Presumably you couldn't just drag and drop the secure WMA files, there has to some sort of authorisation.

Re:Non-Windows support?

[V7iktor]

It mounts like an external hard drive without any extra drivers. Not only that, you will be able to connect your digital camera to the player and transfer files (photos) from the camera to the player (and the other way around). That's thanks to the USB host feature (USB-On-the-go) that H300 supports.

aoe

[DrunkenTerror]

People in the old days were such idiots!

Stupid AC!


I'm joking.

In FLAC-related news

[Anonymous Coward]

Cowon has updated the firmware for their iAUDIO M3 player, and it now includes FLAC support, next to MP3 and Ogg Vorbis.

Bulky?

[Scud]

I'm curious as to why the reviewer says that it's a bit bulky, the difference between it and the 20gig iPod being about 3/8th's of an inch more in depth, and an extra ounce for the 320.

Not much of a difference that I can see.

Re:Bulky?

[Kiryat Malachi]

3/8" is a lot, when the iPod is all of 5/8" or so thick - you're talking a 65% increase in one dimension. If you get used to the size of an iPod, or even a Mini, that increase is going to make it seem bulky indeed.

Firmware

[Anonymous Coward]

As a current iRiver H140 owner, I offer a warning to anyone thinking of buying one of their products - make sure you are happy with their specifications 'as is'!

Although the players are fantastic, and I wouldn't swap mine for the world, iRiver have developed a reputation for misleading customers about firmware. I have personally been waiting for "on-the-fly" playlist creation to be added to the player since I bought it. They promised it in April, then late August... In mid-September the firmware finally came out - without over 90% of the promised features. (yes, including on the fly ) I've heard similar stories from users of other iRiver players.

Don't get me wrong, the players are great, but make sure you know that what you're buying is what you want - and don't buy based on a feature "coming soon" via a firmware upgrade!

Er...

[Tomahawk]

Er, I ordered one of these yesterday (the site I ordered off didn't have the H340 40Gb version, which is lucky from my credit card's point of view).

There was no mention of it being a preorder - they had 10 in stock, and it's now in packaging and waiting to be shipped to me.

So, how is it that they are only taking preorders on something that I have already purchased?

T.

what about something that plays mods

[Reez]

for old skool music lovers ... some kind of embbeded xmms with uade plugin ...

Use it for photos

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an H140 and I use it to store photos when I'm traveling. You can use a syncbox to transfer images from a compact flash card, etc, to the device without a computer.

If it had a color screen, you might be able to look at those pics, which you can't currently do.

Storing images

[WearyVulture]

Does anybody know if it allows copying images directly from a compact flash card? That is, can I just plug an USB compactflash card reader to it and transfer the pictures? That alone would justify the purchase, since it would replace the need to carry a laptop or a bunch of flash cards.

Come to think of it, any other player that does support that? I don't need a fancy color screen, just the storage capability.

Re:Storing images

[V7iktor]

Yes you can connect a flash card reader (or even the camera itself if it doesn't require any extra drivers). You can then browse any files that are on the card and copy them.

Re:Storing images

[Anonymous Coward]

Not directly from the card, but on recent cameras you can connect the player directly to the camera and copy the files across. That's actually one of the main differences between the H100 series and the H300 series.

Another difference is that the H340 is quite a lot bigger than the 100 series, even though it does look cooler.

Re:Storing images

[Anonymous Writer]

can I just plug an USB compactflash card reader to it and transfer the pictures?

Come to think of it, any other player that does support that? I don't need a fancy color screen, just the storage capability.

Belkin makes a Media Reader for the iPod that allows you to transfer images onto an iPod.

Re:Storing images

[WearyVulture]

Interesting, thanks for the link. However, I already have an USB compactflash reader and my camera does support USB connection, so it seems that the iPod + Reader would be less cost effective than simply connecting the USB reader to the iRiver.

I'll wait for actual reviews, see if it really works.

Re:Storing images

[Equinox]

I know the Archos AV120 has a CF reader for 30 USD from amazon. (the reader, not the player.) I don't know about the more current mp3 players, as I've stuck with the AV120 (it works...that's fine by me) but one reason I bought it was for the CF reader. Anyway...short answer is "yes."

Re:Storing images

[Anonymous Writer]

I just found this user comment on the CNET review mentioned...

Pros: - 16 Hour play back - 20GB HDD - Bright Colour Screen - Radio and line in recording - USB Host, allow user to transefer pics from digital camera

You're in luck. You don't even need to use the USB CompactFlash reader. Simply link the two devices together with a USB cable and you can transfer images over.

iRiver sigs ?

[Potatomasher]

I wonder how long it will take for "Get me a free iRiver H330" sigs to appear...

cost?

[spoonyfork]

How much does a front page press-release advertisement for pre-market goods on Slashdot cost these days? I want to buy one.

Re:cost?

[V7iktor]

You may find this review better than cnet's.

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[PeterChenoweth]

Anonymous Coward may be an anonymous coward, but he/she speaks the truth. I've had an iHP-120 for about a year, and the "firmware upgrades" have been pitiful or non-existent. The player's hardware is fantastic, the software is the problem. The iHP has several flaws (the shuffle isn't shuffle, files played in a different order than they were copied - but it's always the same order), and iRiver has made several promises over the past 6-9 months that they simply have not met. I will not be buying another iRiver product, I just can't handle a company lying to its customers.

Don't believe me? http://www.iriver.com/community/notice_view.asp?pa ge=&idx=31&mode=&strque=&field=1 They admit the problems and plan a fix. Never happens. Appology note posted says that they're still working on it, with no date in sight.

Sometime later they post this... http://www.iriver.com/company/news_view.asp?idx=37 3

and there is much rejoicing at such a comprehensive list of both defect fixes and user complaints/suggestions.

And they don't make this date either, with no explanation ("Late July/Early August" != September)

Sometime later, http://www.iriver.com/support/download_view.asp?id x=609&page=2&p_name=&word=&categor y= finally appears. But compare it's feature set with what was promised. A couple of things were fixed, but gapless playback isn't gapless, it just shortens the time between songs. With all the other mp3 players, gapless playback means that one song fades into the next. Shuffle still isn't shuffle.

No, I will not be doing business with iRiver anymore.

Interesting observation

[MobyDisk]

Although it doesn't support .flac files like the Rio Karma, it does support .ogg, in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav)

Interesting. What makes .asf and .wmv "usual" formats while .ogg is not? Does "usual" mean industry standard? I didn't know that .asf and .wmv support were de-facto standards yet. Has anybody submitted .ogg to a standards body?

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[account_deleted]

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iaudio

[CruzBullit]

I've spent a lot of time trying to find the right mp3 player for me and I've decided to order this one http://eng.iaudio.com/zeroboard/product_M3_over.ph p?bmenu=p&id=cw5000 One of the neat things is they actually update the firmwire ever few weeks!

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[account_deleted]

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UGLY

[Space_Soldier]

That thing is so ugly. I would not even take it to a funeral. The corpse might turn in its new grave. We all love the design of the iPod. Why can't no one beat it?

Re:UGLY

[Anonymous Coward]

That thing is so ugly.
The "look" of the unit is about the smallest of concerns for chosing an audio player for myself. I do not care what the hell it looks like when it is in my hand, in my pocket, in my backpack, or sitting in the car seat next to me. Who cares? Tape a picture of your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/mom over the damn thing if you really want to stare at something and be in a state of perpetual amazement while you are listening to it.

How many calculators, VCR's, TV's, gaming consoles, cordless phones, cell phones, and bascially anything portable do you base the decision solely looks? I'm sure you've bought all of the those in the past and looks was not a major concern, why is an MP3 player any different? Damn, I was going to by the Sony VLH-575UC Hi-Fi stereo VCR but it looks so ugly, I'll get the JVC model with less features and higher price instead because it looks so much better. Basing your technology decisions on looks is not a smart thing to do unless you care more about what the guy next to you might think then the actual function of the unit itself. Keep in mind, that guy next to you might think you were stupid for buying something that cost more and has less features then his subjectively ugly model. I am assuming looks really is the only thing you care about because that is the ONLY thing you mentioned in your post.

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[account_deleted]

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Wow, plays videos, too?!

[d_jedi]

it does support .ogg, in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav) and sports a nifty color screen. .. or is that supposed to be .wma?

Re:Wow, plays videos, too?!

[m50d]

.wmv=.wma=.asf. So if it supports wmv, wma support is implied.

Re:Wow, plays videos, too?!

[d_jedi]

Huh? That's just plain WRONG.

Just because the device (probably) supports .wma, doesn't mean it supports .wmv.. I doubt the colour screen is actually used to play videos (although I wonder what the point of a colour screen is...)

Re:Wow, plays videos, too?!

[m50d]

That isn't what I said. A device which plays .wmv must play .wma. And technically, something which plays .wma must also play .wmv since they're identical formats. But since it may be unable to play WMV video, what you said is more or less true.

asf=wmv

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who don't know: asf and wmv are the same, there's no difference!

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[DWIM]

Complaints about the software on the iRiver will vary depending on what features you consider important. I have had my iH-120 for about 4 months now and am very happy with it. But then I don't care for using shuffle, so I wouldn't know about issues related to that.

Bottom line: understand the features of the product you are wanting to buy and which are most important to you. Do not buy based on a promise of future features. There are a large variety of users of these portable devices and the odds that any single device will satisfy the usage patterns of all (or even most) users is pretty low. That includes the iPod. You are unhappy and angry at iRiver and will not be buying their products anymore. I am very satisfied with their products and will most likely buy from them again. C'est la vie!

OH COME ON

[nobodyman]

For awhile now, I've been waiting for a music player that supports ogg vorbis. Not because I want to play ogg files (I have an iPod), I've just wanted to see what the new official slashdot why-i-wont-buy-it whine will be.

In a million years, I couldn't have predicted "It doesn't have an AM tuner". AM TUNER!?? Are you friggin kidding me?

Come on, just flat out say that you are never gonna buy one of these things.

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[dasmegabyte]

No, I will not be doing business with iRiver anymore.

But...But...But they support OGG! How can any company that supports OGG be poorly run? Could it be that maybe supporting free file formats instead of file formats licensing fees is a way of cutting corners? Could it be that companies that cut corners in some areas MIGHT cut them in others?

The beauty of the iPod...

[HerculesMO]

lies in its scroll wheel and simple interface. That, and it's now 'chic and cool' to get one -- which is idiocy beyond my understanding.

I want a device that acts like a hard drive, so I can 'sync' files without a headache on any machine. I like WMP10 but there is a syncronized folder option in Windows, and I'm sure there is one in OSX as well. Add a simple menu, a simple interface unit (joystick, scroll wheel, etc), good battery life and a plethora of music formats, then you have a perfect player.

The simple reason I won't buy the iPod is because it only works with iTunes -- which I hate. I also am locked into using iTunes for my music purchasing. If there's a sale at Microsoft's music site, or somewhere else -- I'm SOL. It's the real reason I'm buying the iRiver -- because I don't want to be locked into a specific program or site to purchase music or sync my device. The iRiver may not have the best interface, or the most intuitive joystick... but for a person like me, who hits play, selects random, and just skips songs he doesn't want to hear -- it really doesn't matter what type of joystick I have because it won't get much use.

Simplicity in this area is key. The iPod is very simple and to the point, and since it was first of its kind really, with a lot of marketing behind it, it's #1. People need to realize that the iPod isn't number 1 because it is the best player -- it's clearly not -- not in battery life, choice of format, syncing, or price -- but because the marketing budget on that device is bigger than all the other devices combined.

You want to beat iPod? Sink some money into getting TV ads comparing iPod to and I'm certain you will have people checking those devices out.

Oh, and make them available in colors too -- then stupid women who buy 'pink' will also be satisfied.

Re:The beauty of the iPod...

[tfoss]

iPod isn't number 1 because it is the best player -- it's clearly not -- not in battery life, choice of format, syncing, or price -- but because the marketing budget on that device is bigger than all the other devices combined.

I'm not sure you can say it's clearly not the best player, for the simple fact that best player means completely different things to different people. Just to illustrate that, which player is clearly the best?

To trot out the same old pony of ipod arguments, it's the complete package that makes it so appealing. Sure you can find one's that are smaller, cheaper, higher storage, possess more features, have decent design, better battery life, etc etc....but I have yet to see one that puts all of them together as well as an ipod. Apple certainly chose to make sacrifices in its design, but IMHO they chose the (so far) best set of choices.

As for the itunes/ipod lockin (aside from the fact that itunes seems pretty well designed, especially for someone espousing WMP10), ipods do *not* only work with itunes. You can get various third-party apps that sync (j river media center, ephpod, xplay) to it. You are only locked into itunes music store if your other store doesn't allow CD burning, or if you don't count real's whole helix situation.

-Ted

Support hi-rate MP3 encoding without DRM...

[ArghBlarg]

then I might be interested in any of iRiver's new models.

A warning to everyone: their flash players are decent, but intentionally cripple their UMS firmware to limit MP3 recording to lower bitrate (well below 128kbps/44.1kHz -- I don't have my player here right now).

The regular firmware requires their special iRiver Manager program, which tries to prevent MP3 and WAV files being copied back off the device. (Hint: rename your files to .REC before copying them into the MP3/ directory on their flash players -- they play fine, but you can also copy them back out if need be).

iRiver has always given a totally lame-ass explanation that UMS functionality somehow prevents high-bitrate encoding. Tell me how the USB interface code has *anything* to do with the audio signal path or the A/D convertors used for recording.

And, as others have said, they promise to ugrade their firmware but it always gets pushed back. Nice players if you like the features they offer at time of purchase -- but don't buy one if you are waiting for one of their 'real soon now' promises.

Re:Support hi-rate MP3 encoding without DRM...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had read the specs you would know that you can encode from the line in/ext mic in (mono & stereo)/internal mic in up to 320 bps mp3.

I have the H340 myself, and the sound quality is superb! (only my band is not...)

Re:Support hi-rate MP3 encoding without DRM...

[ArghBlarg]

I admit, I didn't check the specs on this particular new model. If they support high-rate without any restrictions, that's great. Problem is, they *promised* the same functionality with UMS firmware for the model I already bought (iFP-595T), and they've never delivered. My point still stands -- if you're happy with the features they have *at the time you buy*, then fine. Just don't expect good upgrades or bugfixes.

Re:Support hi-rate MP3 encoding without DRM...

[krbvroc1]

I thought you just plug the device into a USB port and it shows up as a removable drive. No special software or 'manager' programs. Just copy your tunes from whatever USB-enabled OS you are running.

Whats this talk of 'iRiver Manger' renaming files. Are you talking about using ripping using the device?

It's been out for ages?

[WarwickRyan]

Had mine for a couple of months now? Well, HP340. It's an excellent little device - plays pretty much everything I can throw at it, and the battery lasts for ages. About 15hrs with the default settings (i.e. no attempt at conserving power). The only downside is the shipped headphones aren't fantastic, but they're better than the headphones in the iPod. The ability to mount USB storage devices is also fantastic - when you're on holiday and have filled your 256mb CF card with pics, just copy the whole schbang to your iRiver and you can take another 256mb of snaps. Can't see anyone filling 40gig of space on that :-)

Re:It's been out for ages?

[LEPP]

The H340 is not out in America and neither is the H320. You must have gotten it somewhere other than America. Either that or gray market. Let me know.

Re:It's been out for ages?

[WarwickRyan]

England. Which is sorta obvious, what with my username and all ;-) It not being out in the US explains the complete lack of a support site in English etc. (Explaination for the thick skulled - Warwick is a famous English town - my home town - which has a big castle in the middle of it. Normally full of Yanks and Japs during the summer)

Well ... Re:Interesting observation

[cascadingstylesheet]

Interesting. What makes .asf and .wmv "usual" formats while .ogg is not? Does "usual" mean industry standard? I didn't know that .asf and .wmv support were de-facto standards yet. Has anybody submitted .ogg to a standards body?

They're "usual" because they are widely used, and supported by players. That's what "usual" means!

As for standards, well, they may be de facto standards. No non-egghead knows what the hell ogg is. I'm not commenting on whether they should or not, but they don't.

no digital optical out!

[LEPP]

I have been trying to find out if either the H320 or H340 have digital optical output which I am pretty confident that they do not. I have spoken with the customer support but they had not a clue. The lack of digital optical out is strange because their older players have this feature which is quite nice. The only audio output that they have is an analog. For all of you that connect their digital audio players to their stereos, THAT SUCKS!!!!! Wait for the competition to catch up. Then, either iriver will start to support this feature or their competition will. Also, it is about time that they get wireless remotes. Both these features are essential if you want to plug this sucker into your stereo.

Re:no digital optical out!

[WarwickRyan]

The don't have optical out. Not too sure what the benefit is of having it, the performance bottleneck is going to be the compressed audio not the connection from the player..

Re:no digital optical out!

[jchoyt]

I'm sitting here looking at an iHP-120 and it says "OPTICAL/LINE OUT". Also the manual lists "Line out/Optical Out" in the feature list. I don't have any way of verfying that it is, actually, optical but it sure seems like it.

Jeff

Re:no digital optical out!

[LEPP]

That is the point I made. Older models of the iriver hard drive based digital music players support "OPTICAL/LINE OUT" but the H320 does not (to either my knowledge or customer supports knowledge). You do realize that this was a discussion on the H320 and not the H120 right?

Re:no digital optical out!

[LEPP]

I don't think that they have a digital output other than the USB. Most good stereos use digital outputs and inputs. The sound quality is much better and would support Dolby PL2 and other encoding schemes. If it does indeed have the digital/optical audio output, I will buy it. I know all the previous players do advirtise this feature and the h320 does not.

Re:no digital optical out!

[WarwickRyan]

H430 does not. Got it in my hand now - it has USB1.1, USB2.0, DC on the bottom, standard line-in and line-out + headphones on the top, and a connection for the aerial / remote. Do MP3 or Ogg support Pro Logic 2 even? I can't tell any difference from the output quailty of my Ogg files from my PC via either Optical or standard jack, but it's clear on DVDs/CDs. I'm damn picky about these things too...

Re:no digital optical out!

[LEPP]

I don't think that the current versions of ogg and mp3 support PL2. I have heard that wmv does though. It is probably not that important to have the digital output, but for those of us with an irrational obsession with all things geeky, it would be nice. Does it have a wireless remote?

Re:no digital optical out!

[jchoyt]

Yeah, but I missed the point ;o)

RIO

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop using the Rio line of garbage for comparing to anything. While you are at it... the iPod can follow suit.

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[kieran]

You know it supports MP3 (and I think WAV) as well, right? What format do you consider to be missing?

Surely it's the players that don't support free formats that are cutting corners!

Usual formats?

[gmhowell]

The usual formats? Unless I'm a total rube (quite possible), it doesn't support AAC files, which are the ones shipped from the largest online music store. Can't remember the name of the top of my head. iSomethingorother, I think.

Slashdot posted a story about it once.

Why no AM Receiver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been looking for a small audio player with an AM tuner. Any /. out there know of one other than the pogo device?

HD Player... ok... But....

[Prof.Phreak]

...does it work as a USB Drive when you plug it in? Does it require that stupid iRiver Manager software to be installed?

I have an H340

[Compact Dick]

It's essentially the same as the H320, but with a 40 GB HDD and a cool docking station. I bought it a month ago, and love it. Some random thoughts:

Ogg Vorbis support through the full bitrate range [32-500 kbps], excellent sound quality, good fit and finish, detailed colour screen that nicely displays the photos uploaded from your camera, quite tough [dropped it a few times, no probs], built-in recorder that supports upto 320kbps MP3s, a ton of useful accessories, a quality padded clip-on case, line in/out, great navigation, no need for drivers [plug and play with any OS that supports generic USB mass storage devices], serves as a back-up drive, a text reader to store lyrics or e-books, lovely graphics all over the place ... so what's not to like?

The lovely LCD remote that comes with the H1x0 series is replaced with a bare-bones slimline model with no display. Playlists cannot be created on the H340. Gapless playback is not yet available for Ogg Vorbis or MP3. Firmware updates are deplorably infrequent.

Hopefully the folks at iRiver will get their act together. Highly recommended!

-- CD

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[account_deleted]

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In order

[Compact Dick]

Yes. No.

Forget it!

[rmy1]

Using Mozilla in Linux, I clicked on the "pre-order now" button and their server rejected me, telling me I needed IE. WTF?

Afterthought

[PCM2]

Why do mp3 players never have an AM tuner? Always FM only, but most talk radio comes in AM, it seems only natural that they would include this. What's the holdup.

<nod>

However, I wouldn't scratch my head too hard ... I can tell you that the FM tuner on my iRiver H120 is a joke. I can't walk down the street and expect to get a signal. Very loud blasts of static as the headphone cord swings back and forth. It's nearly useless.

I second that - MOD PARENT UP

[PCM2]

Yes, I bought the iRiver after comparing it with some of the other players on the market. The one I was leaning toward most was the Rio Karma. I decided to go with the iRiver because it seemed to be a more "open" design (it's just a big hard drive, as opposed to the Karma, which requires a Java applet to move files on/off), and because iRiver promised to implement some features and bugfixes in a future firmware. They went so far as to post a schedule of updates on their Web site.

But then, after I bought the device, they merely posted an apology when they failed to release a firmware on their first deadline date. And then, silence. For months. You can go check out their online forums and you'll see that they are positively filled with irate customers screaming for iRiver to get its act together and release the updates it promised, but as far as anyone can tell nobody from iRiver even reads the forums.

This was a real disappointment, because in the past I owned an iRiver CD-based MP3 player and their firmware updates were regular, timely, and added all kinds of valuable features, from extended battery life to extra anti-skip protection, etc. It seems clear that iRiver's focus is now on pumping out new products (such as the H320, the market for which isn't entirely clear) rather than satisfying past customers. A real shame.

Right now, the H-series from iRiver is still missing:

• Gapless playback
• On-the-fly playlists
• A proper shuffle feature (the current one is not particularly random)
• Level indicators for the record function

I'm sure other people can point to other bugs and missing features that had been promised earlier.

Features --

[9812713]

Hi,

I have 2 Mp3 players, one is the ChromeX150 from Iriver CD Based (http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iMP-150.asp x) and the MPIO DMG (Flash Based) I notice alot of features like playable formats, boot up time, and well storage capacities. I for one which they would start adopting the Spdif audio, so you can incorporate the MP3 player into your home theatre, I know what you are going to say, why not use your DVD Player for that?

Well that is a valid point, and if I were ranting on a DVD player, I would. I think that dispite that technology has come far, and fast over the past few year, I am still curious why ever Car Audio players aren't capable of accepting spdif, and creating a surround sound experience.

I think it would be sweet to have the tweeters, speakers, and sub, all accepting the nice crisp sounds of surround sound either in 5.1, 6.1, or even 7.1 ...

The only mp3 player I found that has spdif as a feature is Archos Gmini 120 MP3 & WMA Player (http://www.directron.com/gmini120.html)

How do you listen to music?

[SmallFurryCreature]

Some people hate radio because it is the same music repeated over and over and over and over and you get the idea.

So before HD players you had two kinda people. Those that don't mind listening to the same music over and over, those who did but only used their player for short times and those like me who carried a lot of tapes -> cd's -> mini-discs with them. Of course you then still listened to the same songs in a small time frame but at least there was some change.

But with my 20gb zen I can listen at work to music and not hear the same song twice in 8 hours. Is it important? Well no. I like it however.

So to me there would be no maximum (I am afraid to check the size of my PC music collection, it is several modern HD's but checking it would mean realizing I have a music addiction). Ideally the player would hold my entire music collection and allow me to easily switch between types of music. The zen sucks at this. I follow a language course and it is impossible to switch between playing music and the language course easily. For some reason it keeps adding the course to the music and playing lessons in the music shuffle. Crap.

On the other hand I know plenty of people that are happy with their 128mb players. The snob in me however must state that with their taste in music they could do with a 128kb player. It is all just the same drum beat repeated endlessly anyway.

Oh I also got a 1.5gb iRiver (because the zen's battery life is not enough for an entire work shift and travel anymore) and the iRiver has a lesser user interface (to many funtions to some buttons while others remains unused) but the sound is better. EAX sounds nice but all the effects are useless when you have more then one type of music and the other "enhancements" don't work well for me.

/.'ers gut reaction

[TheHonestTruth]

Although it doesn't support .flac files like the Rio Karma, it does support .ogg, in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav) and sports a nifty color screen

No Ogg?? WTF??? I, for one, will not be buying this. When are digital music player companies going to start supporting Ogg?! I ripped my entire album collection into Ogg and I've noticed a dramatic quality difference over 256 kb/sec mp3s. C'mon! Just support Og*tap*tap* *point*point*

Oh. Ummmm. It's cool then I guess.

-truth

Re:/.'ers gut reaction

[nystagmus]

errr... It DOES support ogg.

Re:/.'ers gut reaction

[TheHonestTruth]

*sigh*

Did you read my whole comment?? Because at the end, the tapping, the pointing, and my capitulation implied that, yeah, I see that it supports ogg. I understand if you didn't think it was funny, but c'mon man, I was being pretty obvious on my stance

-truth

already available...

[glazou]

...in Paris, France, in the asian corner rue Montgallet (paris 12).

So is there a version of Rockbox for it?

[Kazoo the Clown]

Or equivalent? http://rockbox.haxx.se/

If not, I'll pass. If open-source firmware isn't available for it, I'll buy another model that does...

Re:So is there a version of Rockbox for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

why does it matter?

honestly. its a little mp3 player. not an entire architecture with only one major player

3 things. storage, storage, storage

[elstumpo]

I currently have 40 or 50 gigs of mp3s on my computer, and about 700 CDs in my living room.

Whenever someone makes a portable mp3 player with 200GB (giving me room to expand for the few years I expect to use it) I will buy it, even if it's ugly and somewhat larger, and $400, and has a clunky interface.

Re:For all those dismissive of the iPod's interfac

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the other mp3 players, gapless playback means that one song fades into the next.

What are you talking about?? The only player with true gapless playback is the Rio Karma. This is a sad fact. Gapless playback should be the norm. Cross fading is not gapless. "Gapless" is a seemless transition from one song to the next just like the original CD plays.

how about car decks that can play ogg vorbis?

[Anonymous Coward]

do they exist? I would like to buy one.

WAV/RIFF is a container

[jensend]

PCM is the usual format, with the main purpose of the container being to indicate the endianness of the raw PCM data, but people have often put mp3 or various other codecs in a .wav.

Re:WAV/RIFF is a container

[hackstraw]

Not that it matters. But I thought wav's were all PCM data with a header that told you the sample rate, bits, etc.

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[account_deleted]

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iRiver H320 (Almost) Hits the Market

[Anonymous Coward]

... It got dammed.

WMV or WMA?

[Performaman]

in addition to the usual file formats (mp3, .wmv, .asf, .wav
Do they mean .wma?

Re: TROLL link in parent -- do NOT click! (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

Good review here

[nic1m]

I prefer my H120, but PC Pro preferred the H320:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/?http://www.pcpro.co .uk/rev iews/reviews_story.php?id=61885&searchString=h320+ h320

Boot Time?

[F34nor]

When I was shopping for a iPod or iPod killer I looked at Google Groups and found a distressing comment about iRiver's boo times. One post said that when it had 40 Gigs on it it took 11 minutes to boot.

11 Minutes to Boot. Can someone please comment on this. In the end just the fear of a boot time like that scared me off.

Re:Boot Time?

[toliman]

ive got 5,500 id3-tagged songs on there, and space free. the load time from "off" to playing music is ~20 seconds, the device takes about 6 seconds to get to the boot screen "loading" etc., displaying the firmware revision and proceeding in.

in general, switching modes (e.g. plugging in the usb cable, switching to picture/radio/text modes takes about 6 seconds to load up the new section, and the screen turns off to save power in most modes. it also takes about 3-6 seconds to turn off the player, a bit longer if it's still recording, about 7-10 seconds.

it's not sleek, but from hard stop to play, is 20 odd seconds. for a hdd player, i guess that's fair.

iRiver has been selling H340 for a month+ now

[b0fh]

I own a iRiver h340 (i live in Spain and bought it here) and i've seen h320 and h340 in Japan in the stores when I was there 2 weeks ago.

Hard DISK

[jan7da]

I wonder, if its possible to change the hard disk, say upgrade to a higher capacity one. I have been searching for an mp3 player for quite a long time, my criteria were: * Should not need software, USB external hard drive. * Good sound quality. * Integrated FM tuner. * Should be small. * Line Out. ? recording capability ? not a requisite, but will be appreciated. * Good Battery life. * DRM inclusion should not create any irritation. * Firm ware upgradeable I rounded on for Archos gmini 220 or Iriver ihp 120. With release of H320, I think i will go for it. Not that i like color screen, but its sort of cool. Does any body think there any player which matches my criteria ? I think IRiver makes pretty good players, but they are sort of greedy. they released H3** pretty late. I am sure they lost good market due to iPod influx. while Ipod and others dropped prices, Iriver is yet to make any such move on HP series. btw, Does IRiver provide battery replacement ? -j

i bought the h340 on thursday

[toliman]

it's a sweet little player, ive let it charge while uploading songs overnight, and it's been playing for about 7 hours now off the battery, just shuffling about. i guess that's the standard ipod time, so i'll see how long it takes to discharge. 12 hours off a charge + an external battery pack for recharging, perfect for flights/work/etc. there's no hiss between tracks, and the quality is good on my beyer dt531 headphones, no hiss or quirks in quality except when enabling the SRS equaliser features. but i expected that.

it kinda makes me want to know what all the fuss is about, the difference between the iRiver and the iPod in price is now negligible. it costs AU$730 here for the new H340, the 40gb iPod is AU$649. i got the H340 for AU$690, so the odds are that it will be promoted with the ability to modify the menus/shell to make it pretty and shiny for personal gratification and generally showing off.

style wise, it's an ugly little flecked brick of a player, the menus are dull and very much like OEM dvd players from asia, basic icons, art and menus. i just read from mistic river (unofficial iriver forums), there's efforts to mod the bitmaps inside the H3xx firmware, a blessed thing that. add a neoprene shell or a filmy translucent coloured cover, you can accessorise it to death just like the iPod too.

a little heavier than the 20gb ipod and 40gb ipod from ppl who have tried both, a little bit thicker. the real impressive thing is, there's accessories included -in apple dollars, the standard included accessories add up to a fearsome dollar amount - $300 or more, and the quality is as good as the belkin iPod accessories, the LCD remote is not always included in the H340 pack (it's optional), but the standard remote is simple enough, plain and nice. the radio works great and recording FM radio takes a brief time to start but it's good quality, recording directly to mp3. people whove tried the built in mic say it's clear for voice and music, recording cars, traffic, etc. the usb 2.0 connection charges the unit slowly, and its treated like a regular USB HDD under XP. i havent tested in on other platforms yet, but i assume its a standard connectivity. ogg and mp3 works, so im happy. as said above, it wont read flac/mpc/m4a/shn files, something i'll have to fix with a music manager.

i'm also just trying out new alterna-itunes playerlist/music managers, like moodlogic, which is a $40 purchase for the suble art of re-arranging playlists and file/folder layout on the mounted HDD according to genres and BPM.

i'm not really phased towards paying $40 for a playlist manager, but it is intriguing. all the music its chosen, has been interesting and good. honestly though, shuffle is habitual, and after 5 years of winamp, i'm used to getting a shocking selection once every so often. paying $40 for the priviledge, would just be stupid in the nth degree, american stupid, enjoying itunes on windows stupid. you get the idea.

there's my review. im happy enough, but the visual style might make people uncomfortable, knowing it cant be pesonalised, so if i was making a point, it would be to get support for shells/cases for personalising your iriver.