The audacity of these people to suck up all of the bandwidth before _I_ have a chance to read the articles!:-)
All I can say (without actually reading the articles) is: Way to go KDE team. It seems like 3.0 just came out and you guys are already hard at work improving your product! You're doing a great job! Keep it up!!!
Maybe you wouldn't have ever made a purchase but you have got to admit that there is a possibility that someone who would have made a purchase didn't because they were able to get it for free.
The fact is that as a consumer, you or I don't have the right to decide the method a product will be distributed if we don't hold the IP rights to that product.
Sure, the police inflate the figures by counting every download as loss of revenue but that's irrelevant to the question of who has the right to decide how a product gets distributed. The IP holders have already decided the method and it isn't by being placed on a free-for-all FTP site.
"How does putting a copy up on an ftp site relate to making a profit?"
It doesn't relate to making a profit, it relates to losing a profit. Let's say you put warez on your ftp site and a five thousand people download it. If even one of those people would have made a purchase but didn't because they got it for free from you, then you have denied the IP holder the money from that sale. You have in effect ripped the IP holder off.
>>I find it much easier to install Linux than an old copy of Windows 98.
"Isn't that like saying 'I find it much easier to install Windows XP than an old copy of RedHat 5.2?"
Yes it is but you are ignoring the clarification that came later in my post. I stated that the same thing happens to Linux distros as time goes on but the difference is that upgrading to the latest greatest Mandrake is free. Not so for Windows.
>>His experience with being able to get on-line is totally different from mine.
"That's because this was three or four years ago, which meant PPP scripts and the like. It was foul. And that has nothing to do with the hardware, other than the fact that you're using a modem in general."
No, he started using Linux three or for years ago but he didn't quit using Linux until recently. I have heard that installing a regular dial up modem can be more difficult even now, which is what I suggested in my post.
I understand how he could feel the way that he does but much of what he says WAS true a few years ago but Linux is changing rapidly.
I find it much easier to install Linux than an old copy of Windows 98. The new Mandrake, and I'm sure other distros as well, will pick up all of my new hardware without a glitch whereas Windows 98 requires that I laboriously load each driver from support CDs that came with my equipment. This process can easily add an extra 30 - 45 minutes to the install process.
Newer versions of Windows will come with better built in support but as time goes by and new equipment comes out you end up right back in the same position. This happens with Linux distros as well but the big difference is that I can upgrade for free if I can't afford to pay for a distro.
His experience with being able to get on-line is totally different from mine. I have a cable modem that is attached to a routing switch which connects my home LAN. With mandrake I simply tell it to auto detect. No hassles. Maybe he has a regular dial up modem that isn't well supported. WinModems for example are not well supported.
I only have one piece of equipment that didn't get picked up by the default installation. That is my scanner. I purchased it without doing the research first and have regretted it ever since. It's a Cannon scanner and the reason Linux doesn't support it is that the specs are unavailable. It's my own fault and I will never gain buy without doing my homework first. If it doesn't support Linux it doesn't come into my home. I purchased an Epson printer that is actually better supported by Linux than by Windows.
As far as X being slow, it's interesting that Quake 3 for Linux runs faster than Quake 3 for windows if you use a NVIDIA graphics card and OpenGL. So, obviously Linux can be a gaming OS if people would write for it.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule. But I believe the people you are talking about are in the number 2 category. They'll download everything they can get for free and buy only what they can't download.
'Until the publishers start dealing fairly with the artists I don't see why the copyright holders (publishers) should expect respect from the consumers. They won't play fair until they are hit right in the wallet.'
They don't deserver our respect and they won't change unless they are forced to do so. So if you want to hit them in their wallet then don't buy their products.
However, we are a nation of Law. It is a corner stone of our way of life that the Law is above any individual. Breaking the Law is never a legitimate way of protest.
I know some people will say "But the many laws were created by lawmakers who were bought by corporations to serve their own purposes." They are right in this assertion.
However, we still must work through the system to effect change. We can vote out the bastards that enact laws that only serve the corporations.
"People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards and has protection by Visa and MasterCard," Litan said.
Why would I want to thrust the "system" as a whole just because my credit card purchases are being validated by Visa?
"Varadarajan said Arcot may also support the Liberty Alliance Project, which seeks to establish a standard for online identification that's an alternative to Microsoft's Passport. Liberty Alliance was created by Microsoft rival Sun Microsystems."
Oh, they "may" support the Liberty Alliance Project. Do you mean if Microsoft doesn't object?
1. The music industry's that want to control music so that they can maintain their high profits. They don't care about the artists or the fair use rights of individuals.
2. The internet takers who want no controls over music so that they can get what they want without paying for it. They also don't care about the artists or about the law in regards to the rights of the copyright holders.
3. The people in the middle who believe in fair use rights but also know that for good or bad, sharing copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is just plain stealing.
I fall in the third group. The fact is that if an artist decides to disseminate his music to which he has not already signed the rights away, over the internet for free he has every right to do this and it is perfectly legal to so. However, it is also a fact that the copyright holder has the legal right to decide how his work will be disseminated. It is also important to realize that the artist isn't always the one who controls the copyright. If he has sold the copyright to the recording industry then he has further say in the matter.
The fact that the recording industry is an evil empire is irrelevant to the issue of music stealing.
So, the bottom line is be responsible. Share only the music that you have been given permission from the copyright holder to share.
we can't keep growing forever. We are continuing to chip away at our ecosystem and eventually we will either settle into a ?no growth scenario? or push the ecosystem over the edge and all die.
The real question is will our wisdom grow fast enough to balance out our intelligence? I'm betting that it won't.
Anyway, we may have already crossed the point of no return. That's the way it will be. We will bicker about not being the ones to make a sacrifice and rationalize about how we don't really have concrete data until things start to get really bad. Then we'll pass all sorts of laws to try to reverse the situation but it will be too late.
The ecosystem will begin to collapse causing dramatic climate changes which will cause the ecosystem to collapse at an ever accelerated rate. Entire species will die, man being one of them.
"But Linux isn't simple to install or operate. Despite several years of work on extensions that give Linux the look and feel of Windows, the learning curve is still too steep for non-technical users."
If you are running KDE or Gnome the "learning curve" consists of "point and click."
Maybe it's the single click in KDE rather than the double click of Windows that's throwing him off.
'Only sheep follow the laws without questioning the motives behind them.'
And only fools mindlessly break the law.
I'm not saying never question the laws. I'm saying work through the system to change what needs to be changed. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of politicians are corrupt low-life bastards that only care about being re-elected. Who would sell their mother's souls for a few points in the polls.
If you really want to make a real difference then work to get these bastards thrown out.
They're financial woes may have played a role in an early release. I do wish that they had waited for KDE 3.0 to come out prior to the release. I found the upgrade, although easy, was not well intergated into the distro as a whole.
I upgraded but then later fell back. Now that they have a contract with the French government maybe their financial woes will be a thing of the past.
I don't think that RedHat is afraid of Mandrake. Right now all of the distros have enough to worry about with M$ anti-competitive practices.
I do agree with you that Mandrake has become very popular. I have alway found it to be a little too leading edge, however. A bit on the unstable side. At least until their latest release which I find to be very solid.
'Likewise, its illegal to share mp3's. But that doesn't make it WRONG. Congress no longer cares about your or my rights. They care about protectingt the RIAA members. That means we have a moral right to ignore laws that enable the RIAA and the people they represent.'
I hope you can see the flaw in your logic. We have no 'moral right' to ignore the law. What you purpose is anarchy. You certainly have no right to ignore the law just because you don't agree with it.
Your way of thinking will get you some quality time in jail with Bubba the Butt Fucker.
'No doubt this means that the more childish among us will make us all look bad. Sigh.'
We should all be careful not to put the Linux community in a bad light. I plan on wearing a Groucho Marxs disguise when I hit 'em with a big slimy spitball. How about you?
'So, they can just choose to shut down sharing networks without having to prove that they are illegal? Well, for your information, not all MP3s come from a source copyrighted by the RIAA.'
If you would take the time to actually read my post before spewing out tripe you would see that I didn't say that P2P was illegal or that it should be shut down. Further, I specified that it was illegal to trade MP3s without the copyright holder's permission.
Obviously it is possible that the copyright holder will give his/her permission and is the reason I included that caveat.
'Does the Music Industry use monopolistic practices? the quesation is highly relevant.'
Really? Relevant to what? Certainly not to whether or not stealing IP is illegal. No, it is not relevant.
' But anyway, the post you replied to wasn't trying to determine whether 'stealing music' is 'illegal''
I am perfectly aware of what the poster was saying. The argument that copying IP doesn't hurt anyone is frequently used as a way of absolving one from any guilt in the violator's mind. I have even heard people arguing that stealing other people's intellectual property was "good for their business."
My point is that whether it is good or bad for the copyright holder's business is IRELEVANT. The copyright holder has the legal right to decide how his IP will be disseminated.
Maybe you don't like the fact that I commented on the obvious implication of what the poster was saying but then you do not control this conversation, do you?
I find it hilarious that Microsoft can leverage security as an issue to justify implementing an OS that is designed to kill open source OSes like Linux.
Microsoft: "We've been making a really insecure operating system that has cost the world billions in damages. But don't worry or consider existing operating systems that are already secure because we're going to design a new operating system. It will do exactly what WE want so YOU won't have to be bothered with choices."
Slashdot Mirror
"I learned that pirating was "ok" from a cop."
Only because your observation was flawed. What you should have learned was that sometimes cops break the law. But it's still the law.
"Sure, it's irrelevant, but it's also extremely dishonest. Kinda hypocritical coming from people complaining about others being dishonest. "
Yeap, when the police (or anyone) inflate charges it is dishonest and I don't like it.
I find Gnome uncomfortable to work with. It's not that it's a poorly designed desktop it's just that I'm use to KDE.
I think we all tend to settle into a desktop and that becomes our comfort zone. Both KDE and Gnome have a log going for them.
The audacity of these people to suck up all of the bandwidth before _I_ have a chance to read the articles! :-)
All I can say (without actually reading the articles) is: Way to go KDE team. It seems like 3.0 just came out and you guys are already hard at work improving your product! You're doing a great job! Keep it up!!!
And your point is?
Maybe you wouldn't have ever made a purchase but you have got to admit that there is a possibility that someone who would have made a purchase didn't because they were able to get it for free.
The fact is that as a consumer, you or I don't have the right to decide the method a product will be distributed if we don't hold the IP rights to that product.
Sure, the police inflate the figures by counting every download as loss of revenue but that's irrelevant to the question of who has the right to decide how a product gets distributed. The IP holders have already decided the method and it isn't by being placed on a free-for-all FTP site.
"How does putting a copy up on an ftp site relate to making a profit?"
It doesn't relate to making a profit, it relates to losing a profit. Let's say you put warez on your ftp site and a five thousand people download it. If even one of those people would have made a purchase but didn't because they got it for free from you, then you have denied the IP holder the money from that sale. You have in effect ripped the IP holder off.
>>I find it much easier to install Linux than an old copy of Windows 98.
"Isn't that like saying 'I find it much easier to install Windows XP than an old copy of RedHat 5.2?"
Yes it is but you are ignoring the clarification that came later in my post. I stated that the same thing happens to Linux distros as time goes on but the difference is that upgrading to the latest greatest Mandrake is free. Not so for Windows.
>>His experience with being able to get on-line is totally different from mine.
"That's because this was three or four years ago, which meant PPP scripts and the like. It was foul. And that has nothing to do with the hardware, other than the fact that you're using a modem in general."
No, he started using Linux three or for years ago but he didn't quit using Linux until recently. I have heard that installing a regular dial up modem can be more difficult even now, which is what I suggested in my post.
I understand how he could feel the way that he does but much of what he says WAS true a few years ago but Linux is changing rapidly.
I find it much easier to install Linux than an old copy of Windows 98. The new Mandrake, and I'm sure other distros as well, will pick up all of my new hardware without a glitch whereas Windows 98 requires that I laboriously load each driver from support CDs that came with my equipment. This process can easily add an extra 30 - 45 minutes to the install process.
Newer versions of Windows will come with better built in support but as time goes by and new equipment comes out you end up right back in the same position. This happens with Linux distros as well but the big difference is that I can upgrade for free if I can't afford to pay for a distro.
His experience with being able to get on-line is totally different from mine. I have a cable modem that is attached to a routing switch which connects my home LAN. With mandrake I simply tell it to auto detect. No hassles. Maybe he has a regular dial up modem that isn't well supported. WinModems for example are not well supported.
I only have one piece of equipment that didn't get picked up by the default installation. That is my scanner. I purchased it without doing the research first and have regretted it ever since. It's a Cannon scanner and the reason Linux doesn't support it is that the specs are unavailable. It's my own fault and I will never gain buy without doing my homework first. If it doesn't support Linux it doesn't come into my home. I purchased an Epson printer that is actually better supported by Linux than by Windows.
As far as X being slow, it's interesting that Quake 3 for Linux runs faster than Quake 3 for windows if you use a NVIDIA graphics card and OpenGL. So, obviously Linux can be a gaming OS if people would write for it.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule. But I believe the people you are talking about are in the number 2 category. They'll download everything they can get for free and buy only what they can't download.
As far as morality goes, I never mentioned it.
'Until the publishers start dealing fairly with the artists I don't see why the copyright holders (publishers) should expect respect from the consumers. They won't play fair until they are hit right in the wallet.'
They don't deserver our respect and they won't change unless they are forced to do so. So if you want to hit them in their wallet then don't buy their products.
However, we are a nation of Law. It is a corner stone of our way of life that the Law is above any individual. Breaking the Law is never a legitimate way of protest.
I know some people will say "But the many laws were created by lawmakers who were bought by corporations to serve their own purposes." They are right in this assertion.
However, we still must work through the system to effect change. We can vote out the bastards that enact laws that only serve the corporations.
All it takes is a lot of public interest.
"People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards and has protection by Visa and MasterCard," Litan said.
Why would I want to thrust the "system" as a whole just because my credit card purchases are being validated by Visa?
"Varadarajan said Arcot may also support the Liberty Alliance Project, which seeks to establish a standard for online identification that's an alternative to Microsoft's Passport. Liberty Alliance was created by Microsoft rival Sun Microsystems."
Oh, they "may" support the Liberty Alliance Project. Do you mean if Microsoft doesn't object?
There are basically three sides to this issue:
1. The music industry's that want to control music so that they can maintain their high profits. They don't care about the artists or the fair use rights of individuals.
2. The internet takers who want no controls over music so that they can get what they want without paying for it. They also don't care about the artists or about the law in regards to the rights of the copyright holders.
3. The people in the middle who believe in fair use rights but also know that for good or bad, sharing copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is just plain stealing.
I fall in the third group. The fact is that if an artist decides to disseminate his music to which he has not already signed the rights away, over the internet for free he has every right to do this and it is perfectly legal to so. However, it is also a fact that the copyright holder has the legal right to decide how his work will be disseminated. It is also important to realize that the artist isn't always the one who controls the copyright. If he has sold the copyright to the recording industry then he has further say in the matter.
The fact that the recording industry is an evil empire is irrelevant to the issue of music stealing.
So, the bottom line is be responsible. Share only the music that you have been given permission from the copyright holder to share.
we can't keep growing forever. We are continuing to chip away at our ecosystem and eventually we will either settle into a ?no growth scenario? or push the ecosystem over the edge and all die.
The real question is will our wisdom grow fast enough to balance out our intelligence? I'm betting that it won't.
Anyway, we may have already crossed the point of no return. That's the way it will be. We will bicker about not being the ones to make a sacrifice and rationalize about how we don't really have concrete data until things start to get really bad. Then we'll pass all sorts of laws to try to reverse the situation but it will be too late.
The ecosystem will begin to collapse causing dramatic climate changes which will cause the ecosystem to collapse at an ever accelerated rate. Entire species will die, man being one of them.
"But Linux isn't simple to install or operate. Despite several years of work on extensions that give Linux the look and feel of Windows, the learning curve is still too steep for non-technical users."
If you are running KDE or Gnome the "learning curve" consists of "point and click."
Maybe it's the single click in KDE rather than the double click of Windows that's throwing him off.
'Only sheep follow the laws without questioning the motives behind them.'
And only fools mindlessly break the law.
I'm not saying never question the laws. I'm saying work through the system to change what needs to be changed. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of politicians are corrupt low-life bastards that only care about being re-elected. Who would sell their mother's souls for a few points in the polls.
If you really want to make a real difference then work to get these bastards thrown out.
I don't know much about Gnome. I use KDE myself.
They're financial woes may have played a role in an early release. I do wish that they had waited for KDE 3.0 to come out prior to the release. I found the upgrade, although easy, was not well intergated into the distro as a whole.
I upgraded but then later fell back. Now that they have a contract with the French government maybe their financial woes will be a thing of the past.
I don't think that RedHat is afraid of Mandrake. Right now all of the distros have enough to worry about with M$ anti-competitive practices.
I do agree with you that Mandrake has become very popular. I have alway found it to be a little too leading edge, however. A bit on the unstable side. At least until their latest release which I find to be very solid.
'Likewise, its illegal to share mp3's. But that doesn't make it WRONG. Congress no longer cares about your or my rights. They care about protectingt the RIAA members. That means we have a moral right to ignore laws that enable the RIAA and the people they represent.'
I hope you can see the flaw in your logic. We have no 'moral right' to ignore the law. What you purpose is anarchy. You certainly have no right to ignore the law just because you don't agree with it.
Your way of thinking will get you some quality time in jail with Bubba the Butt Fucker.
'and you fucks should get that stragiht and not be offended.'
Maybe you didn't read my post....
I agree with the Court even though I do believe in a higher power.
I don't feel offended as you obviously do.
'No doubt this means that the more childish among us will make us all look bad. Sigh.'
We should all be careful not to put the Linux community in a bad light. I plan on wearing a Groucho Marxs disguise when I hit 'em with a big slimy spitball. How about you?
"Time wounds all heals" Groucho Marxs.
'So, they can just choose to shut down sharing networks without having to prove that they are illegal? Well, for your information, not all MP3s come from a source copyrighted by the RIAA.'
If you would take the time to actually read my post before spewing out tripe you would see that I didn't say that P2P was illegal or that it should be shut down. Further, I specified that it was illegal to trade MP3s without the copyright holder's permission.
Obviously it is possible that the copyright holder will give his/her permission and is the reason I included that caveat.
'Does the Music Industry use monopolistic practices? the quesation is highly relevant.'
Really? Relevant to what? Certainly not to whether or not stealing IP is illegal. No, it is not relevant.
' But anyway, the post you replied to wasn't trying to determine whether 'stealing music' is 'illegal''
I am perfectly aware of what the poster was saying. The argument that copying IP doesn't hurt anyone is frequently used as a way of absolving one from any guilt in the violator's mind. I have even heard people arguing that stealing other people's intellectual property was "good for their business."
My point is that whether it is good or bad for the copyright holder's business is IRELEVANT. The copyright holder has the legal right to decide how his IP will be disseminated.
Maybe you don't like the fact that I commented on the obvious implication of what the poster was saying but then you do not control this conversation, do you?
We don't have to "prove" any of your requests. Sharing MP3s without the permission of the copyright holder is illegal. Period.
Does it hurt the music industry? The question is irrelevant.
Does the music industry use monopolistic practices? The question is irrelevant.
Are file sharing networks illegal per se? The question is irrelevant.
If you don't like the copyright laws then work to change them.
Stealing music is illegal. Period. End of story.
I find it hilarious that Microsoft can leverage security as an issue to justify implementing an OS that is designed to kill open source OSes like Linux.
Microsoft: "We've been making a really insecure operating system that has cost the world billions in damages. But don't worry or consider existing operating systems that are already secure because we're going to design a new operating system. It will do exactly what WE want so YOU won't have to be bothered with choices."
"His launch, originally planned to take place sometime this year, has been delayed for the best of reasons..."
You mean like it's a stupid idea to try to lob a heavy object into space from one's backyard??
"Oh look Dear, Rocket man just launched another home brewed rocket."
"Yes, I hear he leveled the Anderson's home last week."
I listened to it and it wasn't completely silent... I could still hear the ringing in my ears...