Oh, I don't disagree at all, but I think the point is that the Xbox controller is at least suitable for FPS' and that if the, say, PS2 controller were more suitable, FPS' would have done way better on PS2, considering it is a far better selling console.
100% incorrect. What FPSs outside of the Halo franchise has sold better on Xbox vs. PS2? People played Halo because is was amazing at the time, not because the cake pan sized controller was superior in any way, shape or form.
"I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not necessarily a great game."
Really Mark? That never happens in the world of game technology, eh? People using technology for technology's sake, and still build a crap game. How many of the games that utilize your company's Unreal technology are clunkers? See: Unreal Technology. There are some great games in there (mostly the UT games) but some REAL CRAP as well.
Perhaps he should do his engine licensing the same way he segmented the GC playing audience: full UT Engine price for a game on a single platform, half price for 2 platforms, a third for 3 platforms, etc. Seeing as how most developers target 4 platfroms, let's see how well you do with 25% of the market:)
I learned this playing Tanarus a few years ago when it was $10 a month for just that. One day I woke up and realized I'd blown $180 on one bloody game with nothing tangible that was "mine". Cancel the subscription, and off goes the game.
And you cancel your DirecTV subscription and off goes the programming. So what is your point exactly? It's a subscription.
FCOL. Doesn't anyone read anymore? Nowhere in that press release did they state they were writing emulators. Client side software to run host based games is not emulation. This will, most likely, be a client/server based model that had a portion of the execution always sitting on the server (and this demands that you have broadband.) Almost every online game today that works across dialup is doing all of the render/execution locally so the amount of bits that need to be pumped are smaller. This means that the client side won't do anything without being connected to the server. This helps stop piracy and mandates that you have to be connected to their service to play said games.
This is not new in the computer world but is "newer" in the games world.
100% AGREE with you. I find the "organized" sports to be violent and are non-inclusive based on physical stature. At least in games, everyone can start on equal footing and actually forces teamwork. If you have parental concent and the players/spectators are over 17 years of age as specificed by the ESRB rating on the packaging, what's the problem? This also could have been the chance for a public institution to stand up and demonstrate that just because people engage in violent games does not mean that it will carry over into their lives. This is an unfortunate condition of the schools buckling to pressure from a largely uninformed news media, scared parents that have transferred much of the responsibility of raising their childeren to be prodective and decent members of society to public institutions and another slap for video games.
I agree that it happens sometimes. But you don't *expect* it to. There is the difference. Hardcore gamers, who are generally more tech savvy than non gamers, go into the experience knowing that there will be problems. Now try explaining to a general consumer that they can expect their service to never be available to them all the time and unexpectantly.
Again, I understand that problems arise but the prievious poster was excusing these issues. You are providing a service. If you expect there to be downtimes and crashed, make it part of the EULA and let consumers know up front.
That's not even the point! I don't care if it's "hard to do right". The fact is that when you sign up to play you have a contract with a company providing a service, not just a product. Imagine if this logic was applied to other areas of entertainment services:
- Out for a movie with your spouse and whoops! Projector is down for 5 hours. Come back tomorrow and see the movie with your current ticket, that's if you can find another babysitter for the kids.
- Ah, SuperBowl! Got all the food, drinks, and 20 people coming over for the game. Whoops! Cable will be down for 12 hours. Sorry about that! (Please don't start rioting!)
Etc. etc. etc.....
The real issue here is that game companies don't understand how to build these kinds of infrastructures. PERIOD! These are game companies, not service providers. Talk to their engineers and ask them to explain 5 9's methodology and multiple pathing. It's not their fault as they should be focusing on game development and work with companies that know how to build thses kinds of services/infrastructures.
I refuse to accept the oh it's difficult excuse when you are paying for a service. If it was a free service , that would be one thing. But you are paying for a service and should expect nothing less than the company living up to it's end of the contract.
For example, with xlink you can play alot (not all) xbox live games online for free, this alone saves you 15 bucks a month.
So...if this is peer to peer without XBL, no sweat. If it uses XBL, how is this not piracy? Pirating a service is still piracy. If it's just tunneling...well...GameSpy did this almost 3 years ago:)
-GN
Consoles are generally produced and sold at a loss, with the intent of recouping the losses through licensing fees.
*Sigh* Will this old myth please die already? Microsoft is the only company that followed this with the XBox and it's because they could not control part fabrication (i.e. hard drives, GPU, CPU). Nintendo is profitable from DAY ONE on ALL of their hardware. Same with PS2 (In Japan, the US cost them some $$$ due to fabrication issues but was back being profitable on hardware inside of 6 months)
but the people in Microsoft who are convinced Gates to fund the Xbox are definitely these visionary-gamer-type-people (Allard, Blackley, and now people like Lobb)
Uuummmmmmmm....Kevin Bachus is the President of Infinium Labs now. So how can he be a hardcore game visionary at Microsoft but not at IL?
For those who would care to read the Phantom materials before making comments, the Phantom is not a "game console". It is a service that delivers new games every month in the base subscription price as well as news, forums, media, etc.
The Phantom will only play games that can run on a PC, so why ask about console only companies like Sega? Wouldn't it be nice to play your big fat PC game on your big screen in the living room, with all of the latest patches automatically installed and always kept up to date, and perhaps some service only levels thrown in the mix? Not to mention the ability to get games on the launch day vs. having to wait until they physically hit the store shelf.
Also, has no one figured out that Atari publishes Unreal Tournament? Until you have actually played on the system (I did at E3 and it kicked ass) hold your judgement. You know, when the original PlayStation came out, delayed, most reviewers and "industry experts" believed that it would fail and become a niche product. So let's just wait and see what they come out with first.
Try loading a Doom3 or FarCry Level:) The start up time has to do with object loading and setting up the scene. C++ or Java.
Also, JAVA IS NOT INTERPRETED. It is COMPILED. It is just compiled at runtime.
Auriga3D is an advanced real time game engine built on an extensible plugin framework. Presently, the engine is geared towards BSP style rendering popular in FPS games such as Quake3 & Doom3. In the future there may be additional plugins created that allows other rendering techniques such as height maps to be accessible. A goal of Auriga3D is to allow independent developers the ability to develop new games with existing content creation technology.
Feature Glimpse:
# OpenGL Binding Agnostic; supports JOGL & LWJGL
# Quake3 Map Support
# Texture Mipmapping
# Multitexturing
# Trilinear Filtering
# Multiple Vertex Array Rendering or VBO Rendering
# Lightmap Rendering
# Potential Visibility Set
# Frustum Culling System
# JPEG, TGA, PNG texture support
Sort of....10% of released games really stress modern systems that a real gamer has (D3/HL2/FarCry/Halo/etc.) And when did a game ever run with the "mininum requirements" that you were happy with?;) Hey, you can play Q3 on a GeForce 3, so don't buy that new graphics card. Could Sims have been done in Java? Could WarCraft 3?:)
Where did I state that J2SE came with these APIs? The JOAL/JOGL APIs are additional packages that are required to make the Java application work on the various platforms. Just like a C++ requires a OGL or DX binding. Furthermore, why is it so difficult to believe that Java may be a perfectly acceptable language for high performance game development? In fact, depending on the application, Java applications can be FASTER than compiled C++ apps. Just one of the many benefits of compiling at runtime on the actual client hardware vs. compiling on development systems and hoping for the best.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, I don't disagree at all, but I think the point is that the Xbox controller is at least suitable for FPS' and that if the, say, PS2 controller were more suitable, FPS' would have done way better on PS2, considering it is a far better selling console.
100% incorrect. What FPSs outside of the Halo franchise has sold better on Xbox vs. PS2? People played Halo because is was amazing at the time, not because the cake pan sized controller was superior in any way, shape or form.
"I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not necessarily a great game."
:)
Really Mark? That never happens in the world of game technology, eh? People using technology for technology's sake, and still build a crap game. How many of the games that utilize your company's Unreal technology are clunkers? See: Unreal Technology. There are some great games in there (mostly the UT games) but some REAL CRAP as well.
Perhaps he should do his engine licensing the same way he segmented the GC playing audience: full UT Engine price for a game on a single platform, half price for 2 platforms, a third for 3 platforms, etc. Seeing as how most developers target 4 platfroms, let's see how well you do with 25% of the market
evil.angela at gmail.com :/"
"Hmmm... thinking about what most of my fellow Microsofties wear, perhaps quite a few people do...
I love the fact that you work for Microsoft and use GMail. Why not send Ballmer an invitation for a free account?
Sorry, offtopic but I couldn't resist! *dodges flying chair*
I learned this playing Tanarus a few years ago when it was $10 a month for just that. One day I woke up and realized I'd blown $180 on one bloody game with nothing tangible that was "mine". Cancel the subscription, and off goes the game.
And you cancel your DirecTV subscription and off goes the programming. So what is your point exactly? It's a subscription.
2 AMAZING 3D game engines developed in Java. this makes any environment that is built cross platform on Win32, OSX and Linux straight away!
http://www.agency9.com/
http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/
FCOL. Doesn't anyone read anymore? Nowhere in that press release did they state they were writing emulators. Client side software to run host based games is not emulation. This will, most likely, be a client/server based model that had a portion of the execution always sitting on the server (and this demands that you have broadband.) Almost every online game today that works across dialup is doing all of the render/execution locally so the amount of bits that need to be pumped are smaller. This means that the client side won't do anything without being connected to the server. This helps stop piracy and mandates that you have to be connected to their service to play said games.
This is not new in the computer world but is "newer" in the games world.
100% AGREE with you. I find the "organized" sports to be violent and are non-inclusive based on physical stature. At least in games, everyone can start on equal footing and actually forces teamwork. If you have parental concent and the players/spectators are over 17 years of age as specificed by the ESRB rating on the packaging, what's the problem? This also could have been the chance for a public institution to stand up and demonstrate that just because people engage in violent games does not mean that it will carry over into their lives. This is an unfortunate condition of the schools buckling to pressure from a largely uninformed news media, scared parents that have transferred much of the responsibility of raising their childeren to be prodective and decent members of society to public institutions and another slap for video games.
I agree that it happens sometimes. But you don't *expect* it to. There is the difference. Hardcore gamers, who are generally more tech savvy than non gamers, go into the experience knowing that there will be problems. Now try explaining to a general consumer that they can expect their service to never be available to them all the time and unexpectantly.
Again, I understand that problems arise but the prievious poster was excusing these issues. You are providing a service. If you expect there to be downtimes and crashed, make it part of the EULA and let consumers know up front.
If it's too much of a problem, then get out of the MMORPG business. No one forced them to make WoW.
That's not even the point! I don't care if it's "hard to do right". The fact is that when you sign up to play you have a contract with a company providing a service, not just a product. Imagine if this logic was applied to other areas of entertainment services:
- Out for a movie with your spouse and whoops! Projector is down for 5 hours. Come back tomorrow and see the movie with your current ticket, that's if you can find another babysitter for the kids.
- Ah, SuperBowl! Got all the food, drinks, and 20 people coming over for the game. Whoops! Cable will be down for 12 hours. Sorry about that! (Please don't start rioting!)
Etc. etc. etc.....The real issue here is that game companies don't understand how to build these kinds of infrastructures. PERIOD! These are game companies, not service providers. Talk to their engineers and ask them to explain 5 9's methodology and multiple pathing. It's not their fault as they should be focusing on game development and work with companies that know how to build thses kinds of services/infrastructures.
I refuse to accept the oh it's difficult excuse when you are paying for a service. If it was a free service , that would be one thing. But you are paying for a service and should expect nothing less than the company living up to it's end of the contract.
Consoles are generally produced and sold at a loss, with the intent of recouping the losses through licensing fees.
*Sigh* Will this old myth please die already? Microsoft is the only company that followed this with the XBox and it's because they could not control part fabrication (i.e. hard drives, GPU, CPU). Nintendo is profitable from DAY ONE on ALL of their hardware. Same with PS2 (In Japan, the US cost them some $$$ due to fabrication issues but was back being profitable on hardware inside of 6 months)
but the people in Microsoft who are convinced Gates to fund the Xbox are definitely these visionary-gamer-type-people (Allard, Blackley, and now people like Lobb)
Uuummmmmmmm....Kevin Bachus is the President of Infinium Labs now. So how can he be a hardcore game visionary at Microsoft but not at IL?
Yeah but the LATENCY on the mailbox network sucks!
For those who would care to read the Phantom materials before making comments, the Phantom is not a "game console". It is a service that delivers new games every month in the base subscription price as well as news, forums, media, etc.
The Phantom will only play games that can run on a PC, so why ask about console only companies like Sega? Wouldn't it be nice to play your big fat PC game on your big screen in the living room, with all of the latest patches automatically installed and always kept up to date, and perhaps some service only levels thrown in the mix? Not to mention the ability to get games on the launch day vs. having to wait until they physically hit the store shelf.
Also, has no one figured out that Atari publishes Unreal Tournament? Until you have actually played on the system (I did at E3 and it kicked ass) hold your judgement. You know, when the original PlayStation came out, delayed, most reviewers and "industry experts" believed that it would fail and become a niche product. So let's just wait and see what they come out with first.
Which fully functional OS would that be?k e&site=eaga p lay.php p hp
:)
Sorry, applets=applications in a browser. So here you go!
http://ea.pogo.com/rooms/roomtabs.jsp?game=ccstri
http://www.crystalsquid.com/games/tjjx/trafficjx_
http://www.crystalsquid.com/games/mt/monkey_play.
Not a Zealot, just willing to believe that Java can do more than those without any knowledge of Java believe it can do
Check it, buddy.s is/hallucinogenesis.jnlp
http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/hallucinogene
Try loading a Doom3 or FarCry Level :) The start up time has to do with object loading and setting up the scene. C++ or Java.
Also, JAVA IS NOT INTERPRETED. It is COMPILED. It is just compiled at runtime.
It does. Please re-read these threads before posting.
1.3. Full JRE shipped with the game. As well, games like IL2 Stormivik (sp) use Java for the same purpose.
They used Sun's VM. The box actually carried the Java Powered logo :)
A brief snippit from the developer site:
See above.
Sort of....10% of released games really stress modern systems that a real gamer has (D3/HL2/FarCry/Halo/etc.) And when did a game ever run with the "mininum requirements" that you were happy with? ;) Hey, you can play Q3 on a GeForce 3, so don't buy that new graphics card. Could Sims have been done in Java? Could WarCraft 3? :)
Where did I state that J2SE came with these APIs? The JOAL/JOGL APIs are additional packages that are required to make the Java application work on the various platforms. Just like a C++ requires a OGL or DX binding. Furthermore, why is it so difficult to believe that Java may be a perfectly acceptable language for high performance game development? In fact, depending on the application, Java applications can be FASTER than compiled C++ apps. Just one of the many benefits of compiling at runtime on the actual client hardware vs. compiling on development systems and hoping for the best.