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Arrests Made Near D.C. Over Modded Game Consoles
multiOSfreak writes "According to this Reuters articl, two video game store employees have been arrested for modding video game consoles. From the article: 'Authorities arrested two store employees on charges of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures, the ESA said.'" It's not clear from the article whether the modded consoles were sold without copies of the games which had been installed on their hard drives, which would seem to be the most important distinction between convenience for buyers and actually ripping off game makers. Update: 12/08 22:43 GMT by T : This thread on boing-boing includes a comment from a would-be customer who says (among other things) that store employees "were also preloading the XBox systems with tons of emulators (arcade and console) and as many ROMs as they could find."
Timothy: It's not clear from the article whether the modded consoles were sold without copies of the games which had been installed on their hard drives
Article: Pandora's Cube, Wright said, sold $500 "Super Xbox" consoles, modified versions of Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) Xbox video game console, that had been modified to hold larger hard drives and play pirated games. The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores
It sounds to me like they'd stock up the drives with ripped off games to warrant the $500 price tag. After the modchip, hard disk and cost of the XBOX itself there isn't a lot left from the $500 to go towards games.
Trolling is a art,
"The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores."
Yeah, that sounds like an open and shut case of stupidity to me.
Conspiracy to commit copyright infringement... I didn't know it'd gotten that bad yet.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
...and I'll bet you thought the war on drugs was bad.
Besides industry efforts, some individual game companies have taken steps of late to stop piracy. Last month Nintendo Co. Ltd. (7974.OS: Quote, Profile, Research) won a court order barring the sale of devices running pirated copies of classic Nintendo video games.
Wouldn't that make every PC illegal?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
It's about the circumvention of copywrite protection and "conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures"
Device that circumvents technological protection measures?
What the hell?
Could someone please tell me what this ESA is? Because I guess here it doesn't mean European Space Agency... ;) Thanks!
When did this become illegal ? My hardware, My business ? Were they selling pirated games or not ?
Sure, modchips can be used to boot Linux from your XBOX and other cool stuff, as playing imported games on your PS1, etc.
But let`s be honest. 99% of modded Xbox and PS1/2 serve a lone purpose : playing games without paying for them.
Of course, we must also realize that the popularity of the PS1 compared to the N64 was probably due to this 'feature'...
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
There is nothing wrong with this, in my opinion. I feel that this is the first case of authorities doing a service to the country in a copyright infringement case
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
This store was pretty blatant about it. Selling a $500 "Super Xbox" preinstalled with a modchip, upgraded hard drive and a few copied games on the hard drive. That's just asking for it.
As a result of this arrest, I'll feel a little bit safer tonight when I go to sleep.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Or does the phrase "conspiracy in the video game industry" really not sell you on the idea that the federal government needs to get a task force to eliminate it?
Seriously... it sounds like EA executives have imprinted subliminal messages to assassinate the president, until they are sniffed out by the ESA black-op soldiers!
Seriously, though... we have to hold off judgement until we know exactly what they are being arrested for. If they are just modding the boxes or are offering something on top of that.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
So I assume they will also ban hard drives and blank cd's and arrest all who sell them if they start arresting like this.
before we get all uppity, the headline written by reuters is a lie. they were arrested for modding xboxes, loading them with 15 games, and selling them as "super xboxes" on the store shelves.
They were NOT arrested for "modding xboxes". They were arrested for being idiots.
Everytime someone like you claims this is some Orwellian government crackdown, it drops in meaning. If the charges are true, they were stupid criminals and deserved to be be caught and thrown in jail. This isn't someone that published how to infringe copyright being charged, it's someone who copied 15 games to a hard drive and sold them illegally.
...an 'E.' Stinking vowel thieves should be hung.
It was only a matter of time before something like this happened. The employees worked for Pandora's Cube apparently. This company is very active on the anime convention circuit and sells their wares there. I've never seen them sell these Super X-boxes at conventions. Perhaps the employees were doing this independently of the store?
AnimeNEXT anime convention
Any business should know not to participate in such behaviour, especially openly. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is one thing... but selling Pirated material? Sorry, no matter what side of the fence you stand on, and wether you think it's right or wrong, it was pretty stupid of them.
-Vendal Thornheart
In other news, federal authorities raided and destroyed core Internet routers citing that the hardware was facilitating piracy.
"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot" -Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)
Quoth the article:
Now, I assume the reason that the feds were involved is that this was for-profit copyright infringement, which is a crime.
Who did what now?
This had nothing to do with blank media, but with a group that pre-loaded games onto the machines and sold them to customers. This isn't an individal that pirated games for himself, this is a company that pirated games for profit.
Not only were they modding the consoles, but they were selling them with pirated games already installed for $500 a pop.
If that's not blatant piracy deserving of jail time then I don't know what is. Whine all you want about your right to do what you want with your own hardware, but these guys were begging to get busted.
Presenting the tools to a user to allow them to infringe on somebodys copyrights: Legal
Using those tools and infringing on somebodys copyright: Illegal
Hardware that circumvents restrictions put in place to keep me from accessing my legally licensed software should always be legal.
This reminds me of the old PS mod chip stuff I used to do for my gfs mom. I modded a few PSs, and copied rented games for her. It worked out great, because I _knew_ her. If you're going to do this kind of thing for pocket ching, keep it discrete. Like when you get offered Gillette Sensor Excel Titanium Pro(whatever) blades at the local barbershop at like %30 of cost because they fell off a truck somewhere. That's relatively discrete. Putting those same blades in the store window, not discrete.
Darwinism applies to illegal activity also. The stupid get busted, the smart don't.
Do you see the sig? Do you have it in your sights? Why yes, Miss Moneypenny...
Although it's against policy, you'll still find a lot of, *ahem*, back-up games on Ebay.
I bought a Dreamcast a while back, and the guy threw in a sampler pack that had come with it originally. Upon lifting the CD out, it turns out he had forgotten about his lovely CD-R with Ready to Rumble 2 on it.
The moral of the story here being, make sure you're buying from a trusted source if you want legit games. And more often than not, you do, or you'll risk being arrested one of these days, yourself.
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
If someone had bothered to read the article, it specifically states that the Xboxes that were sold with mods already had up to 15 games installed on the larger HDD along with the appropriate software. All out in the open of the store, for all to see. Seems like someone was asking to get picked up.
No ripped-off games here, no sir! We all know that people only use modded consoles for purely legitimate purposes.
What's that about 15 games pre-installed on the hard drive?? You're just a facist pig!!
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
Well, now that the gaming industry has caught these two guys, their billions in lost revenue will be made up in no time!
Yes
Yeah... Reuters often has problems with bandwidth...
From the sounds of it (though we know how news spin can warp a story), they were selling pirated games preinstalled on the X-Boxen.
Why is this a criminal offense? It would have been just as easy for Microsoft to send them a C&D and sue their asses. Why is taxpayer money going towards protecting the copyrights of megacorps?
If I wrote a small piece of software by myself, and found someone violating my copyright, I would be forced to sue them to protect my copyright. I doubt I could get the cops to raid them. Megacorps, on the other hand, get to use law enforcement to take down violators.
Can someone with detailed legal knowledge explain this to me?
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
"They were burning games onto the hard drive and equipping the hard drive with copying software so that the average consumer could just go ahead and copy the software themselves," she said."
But would this be illegal if I purchased and owned the games already? I find this to be very useful as I could then "burn" all my games to my XBox's HDD and then put away the game CDs and not ever have to worry about them getting scratched, lost, or stolen.
conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures
This is the most mindblowing thing I've read all day.
Seriously though, since people post article texts in comments, couldn't all of us slashdot users be accused committing both these two "crimes"? Or, all us of computer users being accused of "conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures"..?
I'm just glad the government is keeping the already-wealthy safe from fair use, or even the future possibility of fair use. Salut!
From the article: "The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores." this is what really annoys me about the modding scene today, it's all about pirating games, which makes it harder for the genuine game importers and homebrew coders to persue their hobby.
Chipping is now synonymous with pirating, I recently told someone I'd chipped my X-Box and they said they didn't agree with playing pirate games...
Just FYI, here's the language from 17 U.S.C. 506 which describes criminal copyright infringement:
"(a) Criminal Infringement.--Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either--
(1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
(2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,
shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement.
(b) Forfeiture and Destruction.--When any person is convicted of any violation of subsection (a), the court in its judgment of conviction shall, in addition to the penalty therein prescribed, order the forfeiture and destruction or other disposition of all infringing copies or phonorecords and all implements, devices, or equipment used in the manufacture of such infringing copies or phonorecords.
(c) Fraudulent Copyright Notice.--Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(d) Fraudulent Removal of Copyright Notice.--Any person who, with fraudulent intent, removes or alters any notice of copyright appearing on a copy of a copyrighted work shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(e) False Representation.--Any person who knowingly makes a false representation of a material fact in the application for copyright registration provided for by section 409, or in any written statement filed in connection with the application, shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(f) Rights of Attribution and Integrity.--Nothing in this section applies to infringement of the rights conferred by section 106A(a)."
So yes, there canbe criminal penalties for copyright infringement -- its already built in to the statutes.
"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli
While I don't have a problem with someone being arrested for selling unlicensed versions of games, as is the case here, I do have a huge problem with laws being in place that make it illegal to do things like view any region DVD, skip the FBI warnings on DVDs, etc. The congressmen that are taking money directly from the entertainment industry as campaign donations (which are nothing more than loosely veiled bribes) need to be brought to task. Someone putting a bigger harddrive in an X-Box should not be a crime unto itself. That's the kind of nonsense you get when you let corrupt companies directly fund corrupt politicians.
Are you? Cunt?
the legitimate charge here is the copied games -- which wouldn't have been, had they distributed the game discs with the console. this is a case of a person profiting off someone else's copyrighted works, which is what copyright law is designed to prevent.
as for the circumvention charge, the evidence is on the console. my hope is that this case isn't extensible to any modchip installation. modchips have legitimate uses as well, and i'm a firm believer that once i get a piece of hardware, i can do whatever i want with it, as long as i don't hurt anyone else.
the legal system of the US seems to disagree, though.
-- build a man a fire and he'll be warm all day. set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Is this illegal in Canada? I know that we are sort of allowed to copy software/music because of the tax on the media, but how does it work for modifying technology so the copied media works?
spend money here
This is the real terrorism: Ugly corporations applying political presure towards holding examples of singular people by ruining their lives. Too horrible.
the 11th commandment would read "Thou shalt not make copies of the previous 10 commandments."
No data, no cry
This is orwellian because they didn't say "oh, they were stealing games", its "task forces" cracking down on "digital piracy".
The language is being twisted to make dumb people (like you) accept that the government is charged with making sure companies are profitable, because of course, unprofitable companies harm our ability to fight terrorists.
You're a fucking tool.
Because in my city (Montreal, QC CA) and probably others too, these kind of stores actually have posters saying in big and bold "XBOX PS2 CHIP $$" or anything implying that they sell/mod chips.
By this, I'm assuming those employees were modding and selling consoles with games on disk, otherwise I wonder how all these stores are still on business.
If I might play Devil's Advocate for a moment... The U.S. has to export something to the rest of the world. We import an incredible amount of goods into the coutry every year as the balance-of-trade deficits clearly show. Many industries and jobs are going by the wayside in the U.S. Manufacturing jobs are no longer a huge segment of employment. Programming and other IT functions are being outsourced to other coutries.
The "leaders" in the U.S. (read: politicians) have apparently decided that "IP" - intellectual property - is destined to become the staple export which the country can depend on to generate income. Too bad there was never a national debate on the issue. Such policies go completely against everything Copyrights and Patents were originally intended to be. Without asking anyone else, the Congress has apparently decided the issue for us based on the bribes paid to them by media companies. Where's Teddy Roosevelt when we need him? I fear that this country is fscked for good and the Wars On X have nothing to do with it.
What does the European Space Agency have against video game piraters?
You are really just asking to be arrested selling modded Xboxes with games already on them. Did they think no one would notice? Not like when I worked in South Korea a few years ago in Songtan where there were shops everywhere with Playstation copies for sale (for about $3 each) on the racks.
Reading the article, I can't tell if the consoles being sold with pre-loaded games on the hard drives came with retail copies of the games. Would it be illegal to mod an XBox, copy a game to the HDD (for faster load times, less chance of scratching the optical disc, etc.) and then sell the modded console and the original game disc from which the HDD copy was made?
I'm assuming so, there's probably some clause in the EULA or whatever about copying the disc, modding the console, or something. But to me, if you have a purchased copy of the game, copying it to the HDD would be fair use -- it's just a backup with faster access times. :-)
Let's say I own a store and I purchased a hard drive, mod chip, xbox, and 15 games.
I open my xbox, put in the mod chip, add the hard drive, and preload the game images. Then I break the cd's that contained the game and throw them away.
Now I sell my xbox for 500 dollars. Is this illegal?
What if I sold my xbox and 15 games still in the box to someone over ebay, is that legal? What if I sold all the parts together, unassembled, that's legal too, right? I mean I can walk into ebgames and sell them my games. I can unload my xbox over ebay no problem.
So what if I charge people a service fee for fixing xboxes. Do you need a special microsoft license to work on xbox's?
I guess big question is, is modding the xbox illegal? These guys could have sold "super xbox kits" with a hard drive, mod chip, 15 games, and an xbox unassembled, would that be legal?
I highly doubt the people bought 15 games for each super xbox they sold, but if they had, would it still have been illegal?
A lot of people make the moral argument against copyright infringement. As well and good as that may be, and as much as I may agree with it, that argument is pointless and naive.
For every "pirate" they arrest, ten spring up in his place. For every p2p network that gets shut down/investigated/compromised, ten faster, more secure, more anonymous networks spring up in its place. Furthermore, many developing (and some developed) nations have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to enforce copyright law.
Bandwidth is increasing. Users are becoming more and more techno-savy. The technology is getting better.
This cannot be stopped. Legislative measures end at national borders, and do not effectively deter (see the drug war). Technological measures will always be circumvented. Moralistic measures have no power of enforcement.
It's not a matter of whether this is right or wrong. It's not a matter of whether intellectual property is legally protected.
It's a matter of technology existing that cannot un-exist.
Entities that rely on intellectual property protections have only two viable long-term paths at this point:
1) Adapt to this new world.
2) Be destroyed by it.
Yes, it may be wrong. Yes, it may be stealing. Yes, it will put people out of work. The sad fact, however, is that these points are irrelevant in the face of the simple truth that it can not and will not be stopped.
There comes a point in any losing battle where you cut your losses, step back, and re-evaluate your situation. We passed that point long ago.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
Its all just those crazy conspiracys theorists!!
Why are there so many crimes where the government procecutes the people for conspiracy, yet the people find it so hard to entertain government conspiracys.
and
The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores.
It doesn't sound to me as if the reporter knew what he was talking about. Unfortunately, that's the norm. They have deadlines, and they get in a lot more trouble for being late than for stupidly misleading us.
I'd guess that the arrests were for copyright violations, and not for the chipped xboxes, which were just the tool the ``criminals'' used.
It's still pretty sad to think that with real criminals, and real terrorists, able to go about their work unhindered, that our government is concentrating on these silly, artificial technicalities. The problem lies with our Congress, of course: it's the best legislature Big Money can buy.
See what I've been reading.
These guys have done nothing wrong! (If they play their cards right)
Modding consoles is not a crime, dispite what chewbacca defense wielding game industry lawyers would have you believe. It's my Xbox, I bought it, I can do whatever I danm well please with it, including ripping the danm thing open and soldering on whatever chip I feel like(Or paying someone to do this for me). If I actually go and play a copyed game then "maybe" I've done something wrong. Maybe. Fair use can still justify this.
Which is where these guys might fall down. They've been loading games onto the Xbox hard drive. This is NOT a crime in itself. Note game EULAs are not in any way legally binding as they violate the principle of first sale. What MIGHT be a crime(I conceed nothing), is loading these games onto the hard disc and not giving the customer the actual copy of the disc. If these guys have been giving people the game discs and mearly loading the games on as a matter of convience(game on HDD==less hassle), while still giving over the games themselves, then they are completely in the clear.
If however they've been selling Xboxes with multiple copies of the same games and not handing over the disc, then they are, I grant you, grade A morons.
This can be a legit businees model, no matter how many wookies live on endor('s moon). My biggest concern is that legit console modders will suffer a chilling effect and close down. Or that the industry cease and desist letter will carry mugshots of these guys when they're sent out to perfectly legal business. Or of course that clueless judges take it into consideration when awarding SLAPP victories to chewbacca confusians.
If I want to play import games, then I damn well will. The only crime here is the region locking of games and DVDs imposed by the industry(...and of course copyright theft if these guys really have been that stupid)
May the Maths Be with you!
Before non palladium drm crippled pc users who want to run Linux get thrown in the slammer?
After all its pirating since you did not pay ms the Windows tax so you must be trying to run software on your own system without Microsoft's approval.
I am getting real sick of not owning the products I buy.
What about fair use?
The whole reason mod chips are used is because all the apps are encrypted and need to be signed by MS to run. THis creates a virtual monopoly for htem and brings in a shitload of money.
The pc does not need modchips because its free.... for now??
http://saveie6.com/
"...conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures."
Who makes this crap up? Honestly...
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
I modded my Xbox so that i could copy more music to it as well as store the games on the hd so i don't have to keep going to get my game cd's. I've purchased over 50 games for this thing.. Most of which are on the hd.. I don't have to get my phatt ass off the couch as much.. So maybe it's an obesity issue they are attacking as well.
But if they were coping 15 games to a new xbox and making money illegally they are deserving of what happens.
Did they hit the Pandora's Cube at White Marsh? I hope so. Those bastards were selling imported PS2s for like $600 when they first came out, and their catalog of anime music are mostly bootlegs from Taiwan.
However, selling the games is a rap that will stick and rightly so.
Worse, since the mod-chip and hard disk mods were part and parcel of the game-selling, any arguement of "primarily for legitimate uses" goes out the window also.
These guys are going down, and they don't have my sympathy.
I hope end-users get off with nothing more than confiscated equipment and the opportunity to sue these guys for their $500 back ("see you in bankruptcy court").
The moral of the story:
If you are going to run a pirate shop, set up two different organizations run by two different sets of people:
One legal organization to sell mods or do-it-yourself mod kits, and another clearly-illegal underground organization to do the piracy. Even better, set up the pirate organization in some country that doesn't have any copyright laws.
This way, the cops have to work a lot harder to prove collusion/conspiracy before they take both of you down.
Seriously, don't do that. Game developers need to eat, and from what I understand, some (*cough* EA Games *cough*) work in near-sweatshop conditions. If you pirate, you are taking food out of their babies' mouths.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Did anyone else read it as:
"Arrests Made Near D.C.: 'Over Modded' Game Consoles"
I was like, how much do you have to mod something before they come and arrest you?
God, FINALLY. We (some people in the dc area) have been trying to get Pandora's Cube taken care of for ages.
Admitidly, it was because of all of the bootleg dvd's and fansubs of anime that they sell, but still, a bust is a bust! I hope they get hit hard.
So what! Am I going to jail? lol
Anyone else wonder why this is being reported in the Brittish Press and not hte American press. Probally because the American Press couldn't find a way to say "Officials have assured us that terrorism was not involved"
I highly doubt the people bought 15 games for each super xbox they sold, but if they had, would it still have been illegal?
Probably. In fact, the store probably would not be in trouble if it ONLY preloaded games for customers who purchased the game at the time of preloading.
I say probably, because they might still be hassled, but at least they'd have a solid defense.
Of course, depending on the games, those 15 titles plus the cost of the hardware might be well over $500.
As for the mod-chip - if they could've modded the box to have a larger HD but still left in the anti-piracy features without any additional effort, it will invite undue attention, which means large legal fees, etc. However, if adding a larger HD necessetated using a modified chip, and no modified chips were aviable that preserved the anti-piracy features, they could easily say "we tried, but there was just no way to do it" and they come out looking like "the good guys" even in the eyes of the pro-copyright-protection people.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I for one, welcome our new DOJ overlords!
Hey...wait a second....
I used to shop at the College Park location that these guys ran, and I have to say that if there was ever a poster boy for the copyright-free movement, these guys were definitely not it. These weren't folks who just modded a few playstations. They sold lots of blatently pirated games and videos, at outragous prices. They pulled all kinds of tricks to pull a fast buck at their customers' expense. As an example, one time they went to an Anime convention, grabbed up all the free samples of a particularly coveted product that another vendor was giving away, then promptly resold them at the same convention. These guys would pirate anything for a quick buck. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Entities that rely on intellectual property protections have only two viable long-term paths at this point:
1) Adapt to this new world.
2) Be destroyed by it.
Adapting to the new world may mean less innovation overall.
Face it, some creative-type people are motivated by money. Take them off the playing field, and you are left with those of us motivated by other reasons. With fewer people out innovating, it may mean fewer innovations.
On the other hand, with fewer things "locked up" by IP laws, it may mean more innovations that build on existing ideas.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Nowhere in what you quoted does it actually say that they were selling the consoles with games on them. It simply states that they had display models that had pirated game son them. It doesn't state that they were selling them.
Hence Timothy's comment. Some people need to learn to read.
Until very recently, individual companies affected would bring civil suit against copyright infringers. Today, these companies have convinced our public "servant" its their job. Making you and I responsible via our tax dollars for Vivendi's and Sony's profit.
Brainwashed people think it has always been so and has always been acceptable.
Please. Jump in the drawer with the other tools.
Back in the early '80s people cloned Atari 2600 game cartriges and sold them for half-off.
That was only fair though:
You got only half the package: All of the code and none of the legal rights to use it.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
"They were burning games onto the hard drive and equipping the hard drive with copying software so that the average consumer could just go ahead and copy the software themselves," she said.
Well, I can't imagine the hard drive worked afterwards, since they were burning games onto it.
Years ago I worked at a video game store and still have ties to one now. We always had our consoles on display modded so that we could let people try out Import games on them. Right now, they have Xbox's that have been modded like the story illustrates that are holding several games on them. From personal experience, if they had modded Xbox's on the floor with pre-loaded games it doesn't matter because the store itself owns all of the games that are in it. It is no different than having one at home and loading all of your games on it. Now, the problem comes into play if they sell these systems with the games preloaded on them. IF all they sell is a system that is capable, and does not contain any preloaded game software, then there is nothing to charge them with. However, as many of you have already stated, if they are selling these systems with software already loaded, and do not provide the physical media, then they should be shipped directly to jail.
This gets to the heart of it in a single post.
There is not nearly enough love in the world, but there is far too much trust.
Do you think that the slashdot demigods out there could come up with a way to make a user's computer shock them until they wet themselves if they post something that is so blatantly irritating? RTFA already... >
Cause everyone wants a free Xbox360
Video game companies get the feds involved.
I can't even get the cops to do more than take a report when my car is stolen.
Besides, its pretty clear the biggest threat to game developers is EA's employment practices.
This has nothing to do with a pseudolegal EULA and everything to do with selling pirated games for profit.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
"They were burning games onto the hard drive and equipping the hard drive with copying software so that the average consumer could just go ahead and copy the software themselves," she said. she definitely shows the kind of technical knowledge and precise use of language needed for a job like this... although i can't say i am surprised. sum.zero
Microsoft Xbox Game Console - 249$
80GB Hard Drive - 75$
Xbox Mod Chip - 50$
Getting busted by the ESA becuase you are a dumbass - Priceless
you all show sympathy for the underpaid game developers, but you are all pretty quick to steal the games they would get paid for making.
And mod it "Insightful", not "Funny".
When I read this it seemed to scary to be true:
conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and conspiracy to traffic in a device that circumvents technological protection measures
Circumvents technology? Isn't that what technology is for - to circumvent some path of more resistance? I realize that this might be harmful to those make the technology, but isn't that a risk we're willing to take?
I personally don't want to be run by corporate owned copyrights etc....
kinda scary to me
These guys are well known in the local circles of being complete and utter cockmonglers.
They sell bootleg dvds and tapes, on the shelf, at exorbant prices. Theyve got a copy-system in the back, so when they sell one of the bootlegs, they just replace it with another copy.
They've been kicked out of several anime cons before for selling bootleg dvds and merchandise (Very frowned upon, as the anime companies and the fans have unspoken rules)
And the guy who runs it makes cowboy neal look skinny.
Actually, I had a PS1 first, and got the N64 later; I like cartridges. Although they might be difficult to copy, they also seem harder to damage through normal handling (DUH!). With relatives' kids all through the house, I'd still be burning new dupes all the time. With N64, I didn't lose a single cartridge; with PS1, I lost 3 CDs.
Of course, using cartridges makes CD/DVD player mods less common...
So, that means i can pirate upwards of 60 music CD's every 180 days and not be commiting a crime. ( for personal use, not re-sale )
( not that i can even think of 60 cds i want at this point. but that isnt the point )
Now, considering its a criminal issue and not a civil issue, the burden is on the court to prove the timing of the copying..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Casting piracy opinions aside, anyone with a technical itch would be well-advised to take an acute interest in how this case unfolds.
As I browse through these threads, it's clear that even today the link between hardware modification and software piracy is still blury enough to be presented as the one-and-the-same to persons of consequence.
It would not be a far stretch to convince your average tech-illiterate judge that modifying hardware is indeed conspiracy to commit copyright infringement. Oh, that brings me to my next point... If this "conspiracy" wrap sticks, which again it very well could given the technical ineptitude of the average supreme court justice, we'll see a rash of lawsuits that will make the DMCA look like a subtle reform on jay-walking.
I am in no way standing up for these guys... even though the story doesn't specify, I would imagine they were selling them preloaded with games, thus breaking the law.
However, it bothers me that it is a criminal offense to sell modded boxes. As everyone knows, there are many good reasons to mod your XBox and not all of them involve piracy.
If Microsoft wants to stop selling them xboxes because they are modding them, that is fine. If they want to sue them because they breached some kind of agreement, that is fine. However I don't think it should be a criminal offense.
Once the government starts stepping in and making things illegal simply because they COULD be used to break the law... they have overstepped their boundaries. Are they going to stop selling guns because you COULD break the law with it? For that matter, what about PCs (and almost everything else). If they want to arrest them because they are selling pirated software, that is fine. If they want to arrest them simply because they are selling something that makes piracy possible... I totally disagree... that is a civil matter, if anything.
They would have started buying damaged games used on the cheap from consumers. Thats a good way to legally obtain a liscense, then put a good backup on the box, repeat 15 times for a cost of maybe $30 and add value eqivalent to $600.
It would be a great way to stick it to an industry that sells us their Intellectual Property on a medium that was DESIGNED not to last very long. I've never bought a book where the ink starts fading after a year or two.
"Conspiracy" just means "More than one person helped commit this crime."
You can conspire to do anything illegal whatsoever, if they choose to charge you with it.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Pandora's cube most definately sold the units without the physical games and were not discreet about it at all. It's common knowlegde at their College Park store (1 block from University of Maryland's campus) that they juice them. Exhoribtant prices though, thats why **cough cough** random people i've heard of ended up just doing the units themselves and for their friends.
If they were only selling modded XBoxes and not doing anything with copied games, I hope a geek group like the EFF defends them.
In a perfect world, it'd be easy to make a case that there are substantial, non-infringing uses for a mod chip, but it seems that convincing judges that copyright isn't an absolute property right is an uphill battle.
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
I am in total shock and amazement no one has bothered to mention that even to get thier "super xboxes" to run they have to use illegal cracked bioses so right from the get go they are infringing. cut and dry no matter what they will not get out of this unscathed.
Our borders remain open, allowing massive amounts of illegal aliens to pour in, and Bush continues to be an incompetent oaf.
I've shopped at the College Park and Baltimore stores in Maryland. Their prices are very high! However, in this case my own observations led me to the following opinion: the article has the correct spin, i.e. pro-government, pro-console manufacturer, and pro-software publisher.
It's not unique to Pandora's Cube. Every import store I've visited sells grey/black market items in plain sight, with large signs, and sometimes light ropes! Depending on the quality of the copy, you may inadvertantly be purchasing illegal copies. Be wary when they say "They're from Hong Kong."
I'd venture to say they collected a bit more evidence in other areas (*cough* video/dvd *cough*), too. If you're gonna play, don't get caught. I mean, the probable cause was out in the open and the FBI HQ is 20 miles away?
The saddest example of law enforcement was when Pokemon: The First Movie was out, I was catching a preview of it at the store. Not only was this a week before theatrical release, but I was watching it along with four police officers who were in the store at that time. In the end, I guess it was truly a Federal case.
Sour grapes: Customer service sucked, too.
Great use of our tax dollars. You'd think this country was run by a bunch of greedy corporations and thier front special interest groups. Oh wait...
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
I'm so glad to know that our Homeland security forces are spending their time and resources wisely...
Is it me, or does it seem like they are being a bit extreme in this affair... Since when was copyright infringement a criminal offense?
wdd
Ahmen!
I understand that -- what I'm asking is if they sold the games with the modded system, have they done anything illegal?
If they were modding consoles and adding illegal copies of games, they were in the wrong and should face the consequences. However, if they were just selling modded consoles that could be used to illegally copy games, or selling the console, the games, and backups on the HDD, I don't see a problem with this. Wouldn't that be like the backup images Dell or Gateway have? You have a license for the software, and they provide 1) a copy on the PC and 2) a backup on optical media.
IMHO it should be my right to copy whatever game I purchased to the hard drive, and play it without having to fumble for the CD every time. If the display unit with 15 games copied to the hard driver were just demonstrating the capabilities of the mod, (and the store had a valid license for each game) then no laws were broken as long as they did not sell the modified X-boxes with preloaded games. (Unless the 15 games were paid for)
My rights don't need management.
I am actually sad they got caught. since there are no tech jobs anymore, might as well make money through *other* means....
I heard that Amazon went after them for implementing one-click-to-send-to-Indonesia capabilities. Also... Darl now seemingly denies that he owns the OS inside of the Super-Xbox.
The boxes were on open display in the store. There were 15 or more games on the boxes. They sold them.
That's all we know.
What we don't know is if the original hard-copy of each game was included with each sold box or if each original was destroyed as it was copied.
If either of those were the case, I'd have to say that there's nothing wrong with what they were doing. In the end, the buyer had their own single, legitimate copy of each game.
Assuming they were making sure each box had it's own individual copy of the game, this statement is nonsensical (even if you ignore the 'burning games onto the hard drive' idiocy). Providing a means to make a fair-use backup copy of purchased software is not a crime
... although at the rate things are going, it will be before too long.
The real issue here is probably the bullshit that is the DMCA, and hopefully this will grow into being a case that tests the validity of it. Though, if I were a betting man, I'd wager that the store employees did not make an effort to ensure they were within the law and don't stand a chance
There are more of these "illegal consoles" on Amazon.com for $500. They are listed as used, so they don't come directly from Amazon, but some of the ads openly say they are preloaded with games.
Used XBoxes
...don't the DOJ and the cops have bigger things to worry about? Sheesh...
...don't the DOJ and the cops have more to worry about???
It is making your point.
YJL. HAND.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I see a lot of posters referring to instances of stealing, and even piracy, of all things.
/. meme:
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"
To quote a favorite
Seriously. I make it a point to correct people who confuse piracy and stealing with copyright infringement. Why people insist on the propagation of misinformation mystifies me. What are your motives?
How, exactly, does the article have anything whatsoever to do with piracy?
They do all sorts of illegal shit there. Pandora's Cube is really blatant all around kind of nutty.
They openly sell pirate/taiwanese imports of CDs and DVDs from Japan (and elsewhere)... rent copies of VHS tapes, etc.
They even will have LAN parties and game competition in the store, to which they'll invite friends of staff... they'll play with the stock in the store, copy movies and games, etc.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
first, the company screws the customers ...
then, the customers screw the company
so, of course, the company screws back
and so on,
this way everyone involved gets repeatedly screwed
what a great system
Words to men, as air to birds.
Better off going to Starland in Annandale. Priced more favorably, especially if you've got something to sell them.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
All the rental DVDs/VHSs casettes are copies. I saw the duplicator in the stock room.
And they pretty much only sell Taiwanese bootlegs of stuff.
They must have been making a killing overall. I wonder what they report on their taxes...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
first off if your going to sell modded systems with pirated games you dont put them on the display shelf in a puplic llocaltions such as a gaming store its only a matter of time befor some copyright loving persion is going to rat you out. secondaly if they where selling linux loaded system with bigger hds and cromwell legial bios they would have never had a problem being that setup cannot play pirate games and can only boot linux. they might have still been busted but they would at least have good grounds to fight back on and probly would win. shure after someone bought it they could reflash the chip with illagle bios and stole games but that falls on the persion who bought the system not the store. this was a case of pure stupity and like everyone else said no matter what side your on these guys blantly voilied copyright with intent of making profit.
maybe a lot of you aren't in the xbox modding scene but I only noticed one person who picked up on this.
To run microsoft-signed code with a mod chip you need a hacked M$ BIOS. These are illegal, no questions about it. The cromwell BIOS is legal and can run Linux/Homebrew apps.
If these people were selling the xboxes with a hacked M$ BIOS pre-loaded in the mod chip's ROM then it doesn't matter if the game discs are provided or not, they are still providing the illegal BIOS.
maybe if they wiped any copyrighted games and cleared the chip's ROM before selling them they might have a chance.
that's my take on it anyway.
conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and conspiracy to traffic in a device
:(
Funny how the government makes all sorts of conspiracy theories but when one of us points out the obvious, we're off to the nut house
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
The xbox licence states that you may not mod/hack the hardware.
If it was presented after the sale, how is it valid?
The real reason it's a Microsoft issue is that Microsoft owns copyright in Windows XB, the library that powers official Xbox games, which is based on Windows 2000's kernel and distributed with the XDK.
Embrace the concept of the vernacular... It will set you free.
Who did what now?
I clicked on the article thinking I'd see something about a couple guys who were modding consoles as a service to those who brought them in, but then I read:
The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores.
$500 modded Xboxes on open display with warezed games? Open and shut case, these guys deserved to be pinched.
-R
Real pirates plunder entire cities, ye matey! Thats where the all the pieces 'o eight lie!
That's not the half of it. Almost every medium sized or larger American city in every red state has a Mexican flea market, and they ALL have swap meets. Every one of these types of places has AT LEAST one stall where some guy sells pirated DVD's of all kinds. Hundreds or even thousands.
And the same thing goes on everywhere around the world. My brother was an Infantryman in Afghanistan and guys in his unit bought hundreds of CDs + DVDs for 1 or 2 dollars each, most containing more than one movie, ie he got the whole "Lord of the Rings" on ONE DVD for $2. Ditto Kill Bill.
The Christian in me says it's wrong, but the corrections officer in me says, 'I love to make a grown man piss himself.'
You were there and saw them selling games without their packaging? Were they selling games they bought or coppies without paying for them? It makes a difference and I'll be happier if they were arrested for selling coppies, but still pissed that the US federal government is being used as some kind of copyright police when the issue is really a civil not a criminal matter.
In any case, the article was unclear. All it said was that they had games on display:
Xbox video game console, that had been modified to hold larger hard drives and play pirated games. The modified consoles, some holding 15 or more games already copied to the hard drive, were on open display in the stores.
Show me a video store that does not have games on display and show me a computer that's not capable of playing a "pirated" game.
The ESA would like you to think that modifying a game, so that it will take a bigger hard drive or save a copy is against the law and will get you arrested, but I've yet to be shown that. If you were there and saw what they were doing, you can tell me one way or another.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Well, I can still cry that the Federal government is being used this way. You would think that the ESA could just go and bring a lawsuit against them and take the money that was due and some punishment and that would be that. The police could be called if the store refused to comply. This kind of "crime" does not merit police raids and resources the same way drug manufacturing and other crimes do.
Still, I'm glad that the crime in question was not simply selling a modified computer, with a bigger hard drive and different software on it. The ESA spokesman tried to make it sound like that was what was being enforced here and that would be a total waste of time and wrong.
It's BS like this that will keep me from ever buying an Xbox. I refuse to give people who act this way and lobby for such bogus copyright laws a single nickel. M$ and E$A, this means you. They make Sony and others look good.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Not if the games were actually paid for. In that case, the ESA just put a good customer in jail. What a bunch of assholes.
You should be fighting the "circumvention" line with everything you've got. There should be nothing wrong with fixing a computer so that it has a bigger hard drive or fixing a console so that it plays games more easily.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I don't think the percentage is anywhere near that high. With the expense of building a HTPC, you can get an XBox, mod it, and have your own multifunction HTPC with integrated movie and music jukebox for a fraction of the cost. This is the main reason I'm entertaining the idea of picking one up soon--so I can watch my DVDs and TV shows compressed on my media server's hard drive. Burning 100's DVDs takes time and money, but ripping one and playing it remotely is quick and easy. When the movie is finished I let it compress overnight for permenant storage (I don't have an HDTV so as long as the video quality is decently better than VHS I'm happy). With a 2 year old in the house its really the way to go IMO. Plus I've fallen in love with content on-demand (a la Comcast).
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
So it is alright to steal like the man I voted for.
Uhhhh, no, occifer... those are homebrew games we put on there... really...
We wouldnt dream of using mod chips to pirate games...
Despite the fact that he steals everything he touches, he has done some original creative work.
No question that he's motivated by money.
Also, in my professional experience, there are quite a few bright minds that would take their talents to another field if the payoff wasn't there in the tech industry. I don't like it, but it's reality.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The DMCA transfers copyright infringement methods from civil law into federal law.
One more reason to love it.
I neglected to mention before (and Xeni has already updated my remarks over at BoingBoing)...
Pandora's Cube keeps electronic records of who you are and what you purchase. Not so much with the game and DVD purchases, but defintely with the system purchases.
I doubt that the Feds will pursue the buyers, but if they obtain the records they will know who bought what system with the pirated games...
..Store owner waves hand (a la Ben Kenobi)... These aren't the modded up games you are looking for....
Police: "You're busted!!"
You were there and saw them selling games without their packaging?
...
If you were there and saw what they were doing, you can tell me one way or another.
They were taking new XBoxes, installing a larger hard-drive, copying 15 or more games to the drive, placing it back in the XBox packaging and selling them. Each box had a sticker attached listing the size of the drive and the installed games.
I watched someone purchase one of these systems while I was waiting to ask a question. The buyer did not have to prove that they already owned the pre-loaded games. The system was not accompanied with a stack of games or any other thing, just the original XBox packaging.
If the seller offered the buyer the original software discs, BUT the buyer refused to accept the discs, and then just left... ??? Hmmmm.... Does the store have a camera? Will the tapes of the "sale" be made public?
I'm a student at U of MD at College Park, and it was a rather well-known fact that Pandora's Cube was doing console modding. No surprise they got busted.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
It's funny how anytime someone at the bottom of the economic ladder imports something, they get shut down. I guess world trade and communication are only for the rich of this world. Why are people afraid of new things? foreign things? The Internet is obviously a REAL scare to someone rich and powerful...
Everyone from the DC area knows how shady these guys are. They jack up prices on imports and run a general unethical business. Even to the point of offering VHS with current in theater movies for sale. PLus they are rude
Do you think they even told the customers that you can't play on XBOX Live with the games loaded on the Hard Drive?
Let me quote from their current website. Refurbished PS2 $199.99. Nintendo DS $299.99. Here's the real crime.
The comment has already been made. Let's move it along people. Nothing to see here.
In January, I decided I wanted my PS2 to be modded. This wa sa monday and I bought a Messiah2 modchip for $60 online. It arrived Wednesday. Thursday, I dropped my PS2 at Pandora's Cube. Friday, I picked it up with my chip installed and it worked just fine. Install only cost $100.
I didn't notice anything illegal when I was there. They didn't make any offers to me (of course the Messiah2 chip doesn't support the PS2 harddrive so it would not be POSSIBLE to have preloaded games like in the xbox situation). (And I don't pay attention to X-Boxes... for reasons like this.)
At least StarLand is still alive and kicking.
I say good riddance to that store. I've been to many conventions where they have stands set up as well as several of their retail stores and every thing is way overpriced. They also blatantly sell Bootleg DVDs and CDs. The store owner is actually rather hugley fat and because of his price gouging, pirating, and fat ass he was known to many as Jabba teh Cube....
I suspect you don't produce anything of value.
And then you blame "piracy".
I'd laugh at you, but you aren't worth the effort.
WHAAA! WHAAA! I like those laws, even if they aren't good for the country as a whole.
WHAAA! WHAAAA! I just want mine! I don't care. My stuff is so scary important that I'll sell the country down the river for a few bucks.
Benedict Arnold just called and said he bows to you.
You've just argued in the most illogical way I can imagine.
Bank robbers benefit by the motorcar.
Child pornographers benefit from the phone lines.
In effect, robbers and criminals benefit.
DO you see how stupid you are now? I suspect you don't have many friends either.
"There was a time when you could actually put something out for sale, unattended on a table, next to a jar, and expect people to take the item and add money to the jar."
[rolling eyes]
In some places you can.
In NYC, you never could.
Maybe you just moved.
Frankly, I'd have absolutely no use for my XBox if I didn't use it as a gateway unit between my computers and my television. The fact that a decent, somewhat innovative game gets released about twice a year for my handy-dandy networked AVI/MP3-to-TV converter box is just icing on the cake. Heck, I even paid for most of the (grand total of 9) XBox games I have (even though I installed them on the hard drive so I could toss the discs in a box in my garage...) An XBox without extended media-playing capacity is about as attractive to me as a vegan barbeque (decide for yourself whether that's a slam on vegetables or cooked vegetables).