Funny, because it seems like whenever I install hardware on a windows box, I need some obscure driver disk, but whenever I install hardware on a linux box, it Just Works[tm].
I see this all the time - "the internet is for losers" "I dont need the Internet" "The internet is for sad lonely people" - people saying those things simply illustrate their ignorance.
For starters I've observed that almost all the people who say those things when they say "internet" actually mean "web", and furthermore are basing all of that on the sites that they have seen or heard about. These people also typically do not read much I've noticed.
Secondly they dont equate email with the Internet.
Its like the people who say that computers are "useless" and "boring" then you point out to them that they use computers every time they pick up a phone or turn on the TV.
To say that one does not need the Internet is the same as saying that one does not need communication.
Good point - I remember on one of the admin lists some guy obviously from an OS9 background was having problems moving files around with Apple Script. I introduced him to shell scripting - turns out he had about 30 lines of code to essentially do some basic file copying and moving. I showed him he could do the same thing in about 3 lines of shell script.
You have to be careful with shell scripts on the Mac filing system though - you can end up losing the resource forks which breaks some files.
If cash is so important to the schools and colleges, why are they even paying for MS software anyway?
Excellent point, however the answer is very very simple.
Windows and Mac are the standards.
Modern education is driven by customer demand. If enough people came and said they needed to learn Linux because all companies were asking for Linux skills, then we would offer Linux courses (actually we do offer UNIX training but its not a large class). So we do end up with a circular situation - we use it because companies do - companies use it because we do - its one big symbiotic hegemony.
We do of course have some of the more esoteric OS'es on site like SGI Irix and HP-UX but those areas are for teaching specialist skills. Your average general IT student is still going to be learning Word & Excel for a long time to come.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just putting it how it is.
Are you serious? The average IT technician is paid more like $14000 in the average UK academic institution. Whats more, a $14000 a year tech can clean up a Windows XP machine unlike the $40000 you would need to pay a *NIX expert.
Again, I agree, it would be a bad idea. The poor overworked XP Admins I know are starting to ask for Linux training.
And I suppose worms are impossible on Linux are they?
Simple fact - a worm is feasible on ANY moderately sophisticated OS. If most of the world used Linux, then we would see more Linux worms. If the whole world changed to Sun's desktop, I guarantee you that we would see malware targetted at that.
But I pay about $20 per desktop for WinXP and OfficeXP (inclusive)
Then there are the OSX machines at $60 a machine that would have to be thrown away.
Why is that so cheap? We are academic. Why is that important?
Because whatever we use is what students are exposed to & familiar with.
Microsoft and Apple know the value of this which is why they give us such hefty discounts - it will be interesting to see what Sun offer.
I think your comment about 1 support person for 1000 desktops is way off - what happens if that person is off sick or simply stuck in traffic? It is better to have many support people to create an overlap.
Besides that your 5:1 ratio for XP is way off too - there is no reason whatsoever one person could not admin 1000 XP machines with the right tools, but it would be a bad idea.
Then there is staff training - technicians working in academia are very low paid and as a result (in the UK at least - I cant speak for anywhere else although I imagine its similar) you really don't tend to get highly educated academically qualified people with degrees working as technicians (unless it's temporary or work experience.) so the skill sets they will apply for work with are what they are familiar with working with either at home, or at college.
Schools and Colleges simply do not have the money to pay for staff training or to hire qualified people. Even an MCSE will get you a much more highly paid job elsewhere.
That is the hegemony that needs to be broken to replace Windows and Mac on the desktop.
From the site: Pricing
Q. How much does Java Desktop System sell for?
A.There are two available pricing options for Java Desktop System:
$100 / desktop / year. An OEM volume tier pricing schedule is also available.
$50 / employee / year for Sun Java Enterprise System customers.
So.. explain why anyone should spend silly amounts of money replacing the existing Windows and OSX machines just to have the honour of renting an OS which does almost exactly the same thing from Sun?
Believe it or not in the UK it is actually illegal to "receive or record television broadcast services" without a TV license that costs about $140 a year. (No, really I'm not making this up).
I do not have a TV license, because I don't watch TV, however TV Licensing naturally assume that I really DO watch TV and am breaking the law and continuously send me threatening souding letters like the one above. I do actually OWN a TV and a VHS however this is because I have some old tapes that I watch occasionally. (remember - its only illegal to USE it to receive programmes - it is not illegal to simply OWN a TV set although they deliberately word things to make it sound like that) The TV and VHS are detuned and I dont think I even own the cable to plug them into the aerial. I've played the "lets be totally legit" game at my old address where I contacted them via their 0870 number (in the UK 0870 numbers are about $0.18 a minute) and made it clear that while I own a TV, I do not use it to watch TV. They said "fine" and said that they would stop the letters.
A few months later the letters resumed.
I call again, asking which bit they didnt understand and was told that calling them just causes the letters to stop for a few months. I asked why I should periodically have to pay a premium rate call to tell them I'm not breaking the law. They said if I didn't tell them then someone would call around to my house. I researched this and this is truly scary - if a TV License officer calls around (and they do call - but not often) and you refuse them entry, they can go to the police and automatically get granted a search warrant. The solution is to not answer the door.
Ahh crap my implanted RFID tags are itching again. Fortunately if you scratch your forhead with the palm of your right hand you can scratch them both at once.
I know this will attract flames etc but what the hell it will be interesting.
Really - from the user's point of view, what is the big deal what OS is used on the desktop so long as it works for what they need to do?
The cost of changing a moderately large organisation's desktop standard including all the support training and user training along with changes to procedures would be *phenomenal*.
Why will people do this just so someone else can start taking money from them?
Reminds me of the optical vulnerability whereby the data being passed over an external modem could be read optically resulting in paranoid admins putting masking tape over the front.
So if the lights on the memory flash as data is accessed, it may be possible to read that data optically.
I think most people have something like "DENY * FROM *.cn" in their firewalling / mail filtering (including probably many people in China)..
Why don't they just make it a crime to run an open mail relay? I mean - you can get locked up in China for reading a web page why not increase the scope to running an unsecured mail relay?
Thinking about it the answer is probably "none". Imagine it - these guys probably have ALL the spam lists - you can bet they remove their own addresses from those lists!
Slashdot Mirror
So lets get this straight. When you say:
"...whenever I install hardware on a windows box, I need some obscure driver disk, but whenever I install hardware on a linux box, it Just Works[tm]."
What you actually mean is:
"I plugged a printer into my Linux box and it worked."
Well done! May you never have to install a USB ADSL modem, webcam, or firewire video camera.
Do whatever you like - you are still a liar.
Funny, because it seems like whenever I install hardware on a windows box, I need some obscure driver disk, but whenever I install hardware on a linux box, it Just Works[tm].
Bollocks.
As opposed to Linux Plug'n'Hope where you plug it in and hope that someone might write a driver that actually works on your setup.
Au contrare yourself - the statement was that "Macintosh" and "open source" couldn't be in one sentence, not that Apple dont do open source.
I challenge you sir to come up with a coherent sentence containing "Macintosh" and "open source".
Damn - I just did.
Would there be problems with game saves?
I see this all the time - "the internet is for losers" "I dont need the Internet" "The internet is for sad lonely people" - people saying those things simply illustrate their ignorance.
For starters I've observed that almost all the people who say those things when they say "internet" actually mean "web", and furthermore are basing all of that on the sites that they have seen or heard about. These people also typically do not read much I've noticed.
Secondly they dont equate email with the Internet.
Its like the people who say that computers are "useless" and "boring" then you point out to them that they use computers every time they pick up a phone or turn on the TV.
To say that one does not need the Internet is the same as saying that one does not need communication.
I have seen someone punch the keyboard after seeing the message "Hit Space Bar".
Naturally it was a sports student so no stereotypes there then.
Good point - I remember on one of the admin lists some guy obviously from an OS9 background was having problems moving files around with Apple Script. I introduced him to shell scripting - turns out he had about 30 lines of code to essentially do some basic file copying and moving. I showed him he could do the same thing in about 3 lines of shell script.
You have to be careful with shell scripts on the Mac filing system though - you can end up losing the resource forks which breaks some files.
17600 FANS!!!!!
If cash is so important to the schools and colleges, why are they even paying for MS software anyway?
Excellent point, however the answer is very very simple.
Windows and Mac are the standards.
Modern education is driven by customer demand. If enough people came and said they needed to learn Linux because all companies were asking for Linux skills, then we would offer Linux courses (actually we do offer UNIX training but its not a large class). So we do end up with a circular situation - we use it because companies do - companies use it because we do - its one big symbiotic hegemony.
We do of course have some of the more esoteric OS'es on site like SGI Irix and HP-UX but those areas are for teaching specialist skills. Your average general IT student is still going to be learning Word & Excel for a long time to come.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just putting it how it is.
1 XP Admin with $40,000 annual salary
Are you serious? The average IT technician is paid more like $14000 in the average UK academic institution. Whats more, a $14000 a year tech can clean up a Windows XP machine unlike the $40000 you would need to pay a *NIX expert.
Again, I agree, it would be a bad idea. The poor overworked XP Admins I know are starting to ask for Linux training.
And I suppose worms are impossible on Linux are they?
*cough* Ramen *cough*
Simple fact - a worm is feasible on ANY moderately sophisticated OS. If most of the world used Linux, then we would see more Linux worms. If the whole world changed to Sun's desktop, I guarantee you that we would see malware targetted at that.
But I pay about $20 per desktop for WinXP and OfficeXP (inclusive)
Then there are the OSX machines at $60 a machine that would have to be thrown away.
Why is that so cheap? We are academic. Why is that important?
Because whatever we use is what students are exposed to & familiar with.
Microsoft and Apple know the value of this which is why they give us such hefty discounts - it will be interesting to see what Sun offer.
I think your comment about 1 support person for 1000 desktops is way off - what happens if that person is off sick or simply stuck in traffic? It is better to have many support people to create an overlap.
Besides that your 5:1 ratio for XP is way off too - there is no reason whatsoever one person could not admin 1000 XP machines with the right tools, but it would be a bad idea.
Then there is staff training - technicians working in academia are very low paid and as a result (in the UK at least - I cant speak for anywhere else although I imagine its similar) you really don't tend to get highly educated academically qualified people with degrees working as technicians (unless it's temporary or work experience.) so the skill sets they will apply for work with are what they are familiar with working with either at home, or at college.
Schools and Colleges simply do not have the money to pay for staff training or to hire qualified people. Even an MCSE will get you a much more highly paid job elsewhere.
That is the hegemony that needs to be broken to replace Windows and Mac on the desktop.
From the site:
Pricing
Q. How much does Java Desktop System sell for?
A.There are two available pricing options for Java Desktop System:
$100 / desktop / year. An OEM volume tier pricing schedule is also available.
$50 / employee / year for Sun Java Enterprise System customers.
So.. explain why anyone should spend silly amounts of money replacing the existing Windows and OSX machines just to have the honour of renting an OS which does almost exactly the same thing from Sun?
I don't really care about media politics, I just want to be left alone when I really am not doing anything wrong.
Believe it or not in the UK it is actually illegal to "receive or record television broadcast services" without a TV license that costs about $140 a year. (No, really I'm not making this up).
TV Licensing will repeatedly send threatening sounding letters to any address that does not have a TV license listed in their database. The letters tell you that you could be breaking the law and be fined 1000UKP and asl that if you dont use any equipment then you should write and tell them.
I do not have a TV license, because I don't watch TV, however TV Licensing naturally assume that I really DO watch TV and am breaking the law and continuously send me threatening souding letters like the one above. I do actually OWN a TV and a VHS however this is because I have some old tapes that I watch occasionally. (remember - its only illegal to USE it to receive programmes - it is not illegal to simply OWN a TV set although they deliberately word things to make it sound like that) The TV and VHS are detuned and I dont think I even own the cable to plug them into the aerial. I've played the "lets be totally legit" game at my old address where I contacted them via their 0870 number (in the UK 0870 numbers are about $0.18 a minute) and made it clear that while I own a TV, I do not use it to watch TV. They said "fine" and said that they would stop the letters.
A few months later the letters resumed.
I call again, asking which bit they didnt understand and was told that calling them just causes the letters to stop for a few months. I asked why I should periodically have to pay a premium rate call to tell them I'm not breaking the law. They said if I didn't tell them then someone would call around to my house. I researched this and this is truly scary - if a TV License officer calls around (and they do call - but not often) and you refuse them entry, they can go to the police and automatically get granted a search warrant. The solution is to not answer the door.
Just quit stating that as the reason. If enough people do this the company can either go bust or change the policy.
The only reason stupid policies like this exist is because a lot of people will simply obey.
There's that word again - privawhat?
Ahh crap my implanted RFID tags are itching again. Fortunately if you scratch your forhead with the palm of your right hand you can scratch them both at once.
...that it's nice that a totally independant and unbiased organisation is benchmarking the G5.
I know this will attract flames etc but what the hell it will be interesting.
Really - from the user's point of view, what is the big deal what OS is used on the desktop so long as it works for what they need to do?
The cost of changing a moderately large organisation's desktop standard including all the support training and user training along with changes to procedures would be *phenomenal*.
Why will people do this just so someone else can start taking money from them?
Reminds me of the optical vulnerability whereby the data being passed over an external modem could be read optically resulting in paranoid admins putting masking tape over the front.
So if the lights on the memory flash as data is accessed, it may be possible to read that data optically.
Anyone care to take a stab at why this might possibly be?
Probably to stop anyone using YOUSUCK as a password.
Obviously the programmers did not consider "l33t 5p33k"
The downside is they don't help streaming video or audio
That would be on account that streaming video and audio are already compressed about as much as they will go (using present known mathematics).
Text however will still happily compress at around a 10:1 ratio so simply using mod:gzip on apache should result in a similar effect.
I think most people have something like "DENY * FROM *.cn" in their firewalling / mail filtering (including probably many people in China)..
Why don't they just make it a crime to run an open mail relay? I mean - you can get locked up in China for reading a web page why not increase the scope to running an unsecured mail relay?
I wonder how much spam these guys actually get?
Thinking about it the answer is probably "none". Imagine it - these guys probably have ALL the spam lists - you can bet they remove their own addresses from those lists!