That's exactly how to fix the problem. We do the same on our mobile users' laptops. Spyware and Adware had become a bigger issue for us than viruses. Not any more... mozilla is the cure.
More importantly, front-line tech support know this. It's a grassroots effort that is making progress.
Their certs tend to be expensive and they have a history of deciding to end-of-life products at the drop of a hat... no pun intended. Remember Red Hat Linux and Red Hat Database??? Hundreds or thousands of people paid to get certs on those two products just a couple of years ago and today, they don't exist anymore.
Go with LPI if you want a Linux cert that won't be EOL'ed.
Albert Einstein said in 1954 (near the end of his life): "If I would be a young man again and had to decide how to make my living, I would not try to become a scientist or scholar or teacher. I would rather choose to be a plumber or a peddler in the hope to find that modest degree of independence still available under present circumstances."
Every ex-IT worker or anyone that's every been fired simply has to read this web site. It changed my life.
http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/employmt.html
My brother support 400 users (half of which are remote/mobile users). It's just him and one part-time guy. The users can use whatever type of computer they want (Win, Mac, Palm, etc.). He's paid 30,000 a year. His assistant makes 12 dollars and hour. He's the head of the Computer Department for the company. He has a B.S. in Math with a minor in business from Georgia Tech. He graduated with a 3.9 GPA. He's also a member of Phi Beta Kappa...
I get so sick of people talking about how technology is bad.
Technology is technology... it is not good or bad. OK?
Men can use technology in good or bad ways. For example, an axe can chop down a tree or cut someone's head off. It's simply a piece of technology. Scissors can cut paper, they can also be jammed into someone's jugular vein. Nuclear energy provides power for business es and residents everywhere, it also can be used to blow up countries.
Nothing personal, it's just technology. It's inanimate. It has no feelings. It doesn't care how it might be used. It's just there for use.
This is a great point. In fact, besides the license difference, this is the main difference between FreeBSD and GNU/Linux.
In FreeBSD, you get the filesystem, the kernel, a shell... all developed by the same group of SW engineers. In GNU/Linux, you get a Kernel from kernel.org a filesystem from Hans Reiser a shell from GNU, etc... that's why most Linux installs are called distributions and that's why distros vary so much.
Don't get me wrong, I like both GNU/Linux and FreeBSD. Just think others should be more aware of this difference as it's a fundamentally different approach to developing SW:
FreeBSD = All core parts developed together.
Linux = Assembling a collection of core parts from different sources.
$250.00 for 512MB more =.50 cents per additional MB.
Carry that out over 4 years and you end up paying roughly 60 bucks a year for the added RAM. That's 5 bucks a month for 4 years. It's not expensive in the grand scheme of things. Eat one less "extra value meal" a month and you've just financed your gig of RAM.
Oh, and BTW, you don't have to do anything. You make choices. I chose to be a math/econ major in college. You chose to have more kids that you can afford. You could have chosen to wear a condom or get snipped, etc... but you didn't so stop whining about having to do stuff. It's all your doing pal... enjoy.
I buy computers for a large university in Virginia. Engineers, Bus, CS and Arch majors now must have a minimum of 1GB of RAM. This will get them through 4 - 5 years of college. It costs an extra 250.00 to buy a Dell D600 Latitude laptop with 1GB of Ram instead of 512MB.
What's the problem? RAM is cheap and fast. It's natural to see apps such as KDE and Gnome and the Windows GUI use more of it.
Also note that "Linux" is only a kernel... not an OS. Many on/. have posted this, but it needs to be said until all of the idiots out there that contiunally talk about "running Linux" get it through their thick, ignorant skulls. One should say that a Linux based OS that uses KDE is bloated... that would be true, but saying "Linux" is bloated is misrepresenting the issue entirely.
A company that I consult for still uses *a lot* of Win 95 Machines. Of course, like everyone in the win32 world, they are begining to have lots of problems with spyware, adware and various other sorts of crapware that seem to do little more than destablize their computers.
Long story short: I did a fresh install of Win 95 C (the latest and greatest version of 95) and proceeded to download Mozilla 1.6 stable and 1.7rc3 and Firefox. However, none of these browsers would work... just a brief start-up splash-screen and then... nothing.
I know 95 is old, but Mozilla is a must these days. I'm no bug-hunting, bug-reporting expert, but could anyone on/. confirm that this is a known issue that'll be fixed or there exists a work-around for?
I'm no apple fan, but here's the brillance of their switch from the old legacy operating system (os9) to their new, quasi-open source system (osX):
1. They now have a super-computer ranked within the top 5 fastest systems in the world. Before osX, they weren't even on the list.
2. They have a true multi-user operating system that has 30 + years of R&D behind it. Unlike Windows which began as a game-playing, home-using OS and has been modified into something it was never designed to be. Talk about baggage and cruft... all for what???
3. Apple are leveraging the horde of BSD utils and devel skills out there. This saves them tons of money and gives them favor with the OSS crowds. One could argue that BSD isn't true open-source... RMS and other FSF/GNU proponents certainly would. In short, Apple isn't trying to be a big, altruistic company with true open-source (ie GNU/GPL) code, and they've never claimed to be trying to do that.
Microsoft could learn a lesson or two from Apple on this... Hell, MS used BSD code in their tcp/ip stack. But, look how long it's taking MS to bring out Longhorn (their next gen OS). They'll be years behind when they finally come to market with it... we as consumers will see plenty of their old, historic OS in the mean time... XP reloaded anyone???
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory."
It will be used to calculate, measure and to build mathematical models... like all super-computers. It's just a tool, what exactly they decide to calculate isn't important.
Math is agnostic, it doesn't care if one is attempting to measure the fallout radius of a hydrogen bomb or what percentage of the earth's surface is water.
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory." --Kelvin
Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. Kenny Brown does not know the difference.
GNU is not Unix, and GNL is not Linux. GNU/GNL proponents offer a set of high-quality, non-unix, non-linux, utilities that while being non-unix and non-linux are unix and linux like. All of these non-unix and non-linux utilities are free and can be used on GNU/unix and GNL/linux systems.
Please stop confusing the issues!!! And vote for me this November... DRM is bad. SCO is bad. HP is bad. IBM is the devil. Ken Brown is a blabbering idiot. Look to the turd... I mean hurd.
RMS
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory." -- Kelvin
A more appropiate title for this book would be "GNU/Linux for Dummies", or perhaps "GNL/Linux for Dummies".
GNU is not Unix, and GNL is not Linux. GNU/GNL/FSF proponents offer a set of high-quality, non-unix, non-linux, utilities that while being non-unix and non-linux are unix and linux like. All of these non-unix/non-linux utilities are free and can be used on unix and linux systems.
Please stop confusing the issues!!! And vote for me for this November... DRM is bad. SCO is bad. HP is bad. IBM is the devil. Look to the turd... I mean hurd.
That's why UNIX is a pain in the ass to non-technical people and the most misunderstood OS the worls has ever or will ever see. The same command on AIX (ls for example) will be differernt on Mac OSX and Linux. You can't use the -h flag on one platfrom, OS X version 10.2 doesn't suppor it, AIX never has, but the GNU version does and now OS X 10.3 does too, but on Solaris... it's different, you substitute the X key for...ad nauseum
Not to mention the various shells, editors, scripting languages. Fragmentation is why people preceive UNIX as being difficult. Now, if all of geeks who hack it would get rid of their egos and put the best of breed into one utility instead of fighting over 50 or more different ones, then Microsoft would be out of business tomorrow.
Filesystem journaling does not make the filesystem faster, and it's silly to suggest that it does.
In fact, journaled filesystems are generally noticeably (one might say significantly) slower than non-journaled ones.
The only 'performance' gain one gets from journaling is after an unclean dismount (a crash or power outage). The system will boot up much quicker, but that's it.
Here are some real-world lessons that I learned the hard way:
1. When it comes to business, it's every man for himself... you *really* have to see it that way or some other guy will eat your lunch.
2. Nothing personal, but fuck you. (you being anyone asking for money that isn't compelled by law or contractual obligation). It's simple really, you want people to give *you* their money... not the other way around, got that?
3. Never give anyone a break... that's not how rich men become rich. Do you think that they'd give you a break? Does your landlord give you a break on a month's back rent? How bout the cell phone company... sure, they'll let you skip the early opt-out penality on your 2-year contract;)
4. Work for yourself... put yourself first 100% of the time. You're in business for you, no one else.
5. It's just business, nothing personal, but fuck you.
With point number 5 constantly in mind, go get 'em tiger. Enough of this cry-baby OSS/Free Software crap. This guy gave grsecurity away for free. No one made him do it. Let's all hope he learned a lesson, I sure as hell did.
Kudos to RMS and Torvalds for giving away top-notch software *and* for not expecting anything in return other than recognition... that's all I've ever given them, and all I ever will.
One can look at lava flows and see, physically which direction the rock particles were polarized. Not much guess work there.
Tell me exactly what the average annually temperature was 350,000 years ago in North America. Can you? More importantly, how certain are you about what you say? Scientists argue about this stuff... it borders on religion... one needs faith to believe it.
That's what I mean when I say our data only goes back 100 years or so. I should say that we have an acurate, recorded history of temps, etc. (a solid data set that is not "open to interpretation") for that period of time where as before we didn't.
I'm not a natural-scientist, just a CS/mathematician. One thing that I've never understood about the global warming debate is this:
We know that over the last 100 years that the world-wide temp has gone up by roughly 1 degree. But before that time period, there is no climate data at all. So, how can we conclude that this is unnatural or not?
Or, more importantly, how can we use a ~100 year data set to make forecasts on a planet that is millions of years old. I mean hell, we know that the magnetic field inverts every couple 100,000 years and that we're over due for that... maybe the world gets a little hotter ever couple of 100,000 years too???
Does anyone actually use this crap? Who wants to provide testing for a company that's publicly said they don't want home or SOHO users?
RH only wants 'home-nerds' to test out their SW on behalf of the more privledged 'enterprise-nerds'. Be a sucker if you like, but realize that you're being used by RH once again.
I use many different systems... I administer several hundred Win, Mac, Unix and Lin systems (98% Windows). I'm typing this on a Debian GNU/Linux unstable box right now. Here's the one observation I have about MS Windows:
Yes, Windows has problems, but the benefits to using it (applications, all users know it, it's everywhere, etc.) outweigh the risks (worms, trojans, viruses, etc). And, more importantly, the risks, although great, are very managable from an IT perspective. Intelligent managers know this.
In short, Linux isn't going anywhere outside of your geeky little circle of friends. Yes, I too am a geek, but I'm also an IT business manager who can calculate risk/reward, and currently, Windows is a big winner over Linux and Mac and Unix. PERIOD.
They are just worried about not having a number to call.
Please tell me who they would call for service/support on Windows 98 or NT in the year 2004? Certainly not Microsoft... so the library being concerned about "Offical Vendor" support doesn't seem to be a factor here as they were running old, unsupported software to begin with.
Not to metion the fact that there's virtually no support from MS even when the software in question is still "Officially" supported by them. The whole idea of them actually standing behind their product and answering consumer phone calls is a myth.
Didn't Red Hat say a few months ago that they were not going to compete with MS at the desktop level? Why would you waste $5 per month on a company that in a year might say "oh we made a mistake we cant make money off of this lets toss the whole thing in the toilet."
Excellent point. That's the very reason we droped Red Hat all together.
After the RHL end-of-life fiasco, I'd never give these jerks money, much less time of day. No one else should either... they had their chance and they blew it... you can't stab a guy in the back and then turn around and offer to help him up. And, don't act surprised if he tells you to go fuck yourself RH.
It can update automatically, it's stable and well supported by a great community of users and developers.
And, you'll never end up with a knife in your back while some ivory tower asshole talks about how edu and SOHO customers are useless to the company's bottom line.
Sorry to sound so bitter... but RH still doesn't understand the fullness of what they've done to themselves. They *had* mindshare, they *had* the grassroot movement, they *had* Linux and the only real channel into Joe User's home (that's why MS is now giving Sun and IBM tough competition in the small server market).
Now, RH has a few hundred CIOs in corporate America and they *think* what they did was smart. 5 - 10 years and they'll be a has-been and it will be directly related to they way they fucked-up RHL.
Slashdot Mirror
Here here!
That's exactly how to fix the problem. We do the same on our mobile users' laptops. Spyware and Adware had become a bigger issue for us than viruses. Not any more... mozilla is the cure.
More importantly, front-line tech support know this. It's a grassroots effort that is making progress.
Watch out for these guys... they play nasty.
Their certs tend to be expensive and they have a history of deciding to end-of-life products at the drop of a hat... no pun intended. Remember Red Hat Linux and Red Hat Database??? Hundreds or thousands of people paid to get certs on those two products just a couple of years ago and today, they don't exist anymore.
Go with LPI if you want a Linux cert that won't be EOL'ed.
Albert Einstein said in 1954 (near the end of his life): "If I would be a young man again and had to decide how to make my living, I would not try to become a scientist or scholar or teacher. I would rather choose to be a plumber or a peddler in the hope to find that modest degree of independence still available under present circumstances."
Every ex-IT worker or anyone that's every been fired simply has to read this web site. It changed my life. http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/employmt.html
My brother support 400 users (half of which are remote/mobile users). It's just him and one part-time guy. The users can use whatever type of computer they want (Win, Mac, Palm, etc.). He's paid 30,000 a year. His assistant makes 12 dollars and hour. He's the head of the Computer Department for the company. He has a B.S. in Math with a minor in business from Georgia Tech. He graduated with a 3.9 GPA. He's also a member of Phi Beta Kappa...
plumbers make more money than he does.
I get so sick of people talking about how technology is bad.
Technology is technology... it is not good or bad. OK?
Men can use technology in good or bad ways. For example, an axe can chop down a tree or cut someone's head off. It's simply a piece of technology. Scissors can cut paper, they can also be jammed into someone's jugular vein. Nuclear energy provides power for business es and residents everywhere, it also can be used to blow up countries.
Nothing personal, it's just technology. It's inanimate. It has no feelings. It doesn't care how it might be used. It's just there for use.
This is a great point. In fact, besides the license difference, this is the main difference between FreeBSD and GNU/Linux.
In FreeBSD, you get the filesystem, the kernel, a shell... all developed by the same group of SW engineers. In GNU/Linux, you get a Kernel from kernel.org a filesystem from Hans Reiser a shell from GNU, etc... that's why most Linux installs are called distributions and that's why distros vary so much.
Don't get me wrong, I like both GNU/Linux and FreeBSD. Just think others should be more aware of this difference as it's a fundamentally different approach to developing SW:
FreeBSD = All core parts developed together.
Linux = Assembling a collection of core parts from different sources.
$250.00 for 512MB more = .50 cents per additional MB.
Carry that out over 4 years and you end up paying roughly 60 bucks a year for the added RAM. That's 5 bucks a month for 4 years. It's not expensive in the grand scheme of things. Eat one less "extra value meal" a month and you've just financed your gig of RAM.
Oh, and BTW, you don't have to do anything. You make choices. I chose to be a math/econ major in college. You chose to have more kids that you can afford. You could have chosen to wear a condom or get snipped, etc... but you didn't so stop whining about having to do stuff. It's all your doing pal... enjoy.
I buy computers for a large university in Virginia. Engineers, Bus, CS and Arch majors now must have a minimum of 1GB of RAM. This will get them through 4 - 5 years of college. It costs an extra 250.00 to buy a Dell D600 Latitude laptop with 1GB of Ram instead of 512MB.
/. have posted this, but it needs to be said until all of the idiots out there that contiunally talk about "running Linux" get it through their thick, ignorant skulls. One should say that a Linux based OS that uses KDE is bloated... that would be true, but saying "Linux" is bloated is misrepresenting the issue entirely.
What's the problem? RAM is cheap and fast. It's natural to see apps such as KDE and Gnome and the Windows GUI use more of it.
Also note that "Linux" is only a kernel... not an OS. Many on
Thanks for the tip... that patch fixed the problem.
A company that I consult for still uses *a lot* of Win 95 Machines. Of course, like everyone in the win32 world, they are begining to have lots of problems with spyware, adware and various other sorts of crapware that seem to do little more than destablize their computers.
/. confirm that this is a known issue that'll be fixed or there exists a work-around for?
Long story short: I did a fresh install of Win 95 C (the latest and greatest version of 95) and proceeded to download Mozilla 1.6 stable and 1.7rc3 and Firefox. However, none of these browsers would work... just a brief start-up splash-screen and then... nothing.
I know 95 is old, but Mozilla is a must these days. I'm no bug-hunting, bug-reporting expert, but could anyone on
Thanks
I'm no apple fan, but here's the brillance of their switch from the old legacy operating system (os9) to their new, quasi-open source system (osX):
1. They now have a super-computer ranked within the top 5 fastest systems in the world. Before osX, they weren't even on the list.
2. They have a true multi-user operating system that has 30 + years of R&D behind it. Unlike Windows which began as a game-playing, home-using OS and has been modified into something it was never designed to be. Talk about baggage and cruft... all for what???
3. Apple are leveraging the horde of BSD utils and devel skills out there. This saves them tons of money and gives them favor with the OSS crowds. One could argue that BSD isn't true open-source... RMS and other FSF/GNU proponents certainly would. In short, Apple isn't trying to be a big, altruistic company with true open-source (ie GNU/GPL) code, and they've never claimed to be trying to do that.
Microsoft could learn a lesson or two from Apple on this... Hell, MS used BSD code in their tcp/ip stack. But, look how long it's taking MS to bring out Longhorn (their next gen OS). They'll be years behind when they finally come to market with it... we as consumers will see plenty of their old, historic OS in the mean time... XP reloaded anyone???
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory."
It will be used to calculate, measure and to build mathematical models... like all super-computers. It's just a tool, what exactly they decide to calculate isn't important.
Math is agnostic, it doesn't care if one is attempting to measure the fallout radius of a hydrogen bomb or what percentage of the earth's surface is water.
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory." --Kelvin
Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. Kenny Brown does not know the difference.
GNU is not Unix, and GNL is not Linux. GNU/GNL proponents offer a set of high-quality, non-unix, non-linux, utilities that while being non-unix and non-linux are unix and linux like. All of these non-unix and non-linux utilities are free and can be used on GNU/unix and GNL/linux systems.
Please stop confusing the issues!!! And vote for me this November... DRM is bad. SCO is bad. HP is bad. IBM is the devil. Ken Brown is a blabbering idiot. Look to the turd... I mean hurd.
RMS
"If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory." -- Kelvin
Linux is a kernel, not an operating system.
A more appropiate title for this book would be "GNU/Linux for Dummies", or perhaps "GNL/Linux for Dummies".
GNU is not Unix, and GNL is not Linux. GNU/GNL/FSF proponents offer a set of high-quality, non-unix, non-linux, utilities that while being non-unix and non-linux are unix and linux like. All of these non-unix/non-linux utilities are free and can be used on unix and linux systems.
Please stop confusing the issues!!! And vote for me for this November... DRM is bad. SCO is bad. HP is bad. IBM is the devil. Look to the turd... I mean hurd.
RMS
Fragmentation.
That's why UNIX is a pain in the ass to non-technical people and the most misunderstood OS the worls has ever or will ever see. The same command on AIX (ls for example) will be differernt on Mac OSX and Linux. You can't use the -h flag on one platfrom, OS X version 10.2 doesn't suppor it, AIX never has, but the GNU version does and now OS X 10.3 does too, but on Solaris... it's different, you substitute the X key for...ad nauseum
Not to mention the various shells, editors, scripting languages. Fragmentation is why people preceive UNIX as being difficult. Now, if all of geeks who hack it would get rid of their egos and put the best of breed into one utility instead of fighting over 50 or more different ones, then Microsoft would be out of business tomorrow.
That's all I have to say about that.
Filesystem journaling does not make the filesystem faster, and it's silly to suggest that it does.
In fact, journaled filesystems are generally noticeably (one might say significantly) slower than non-journaled ones.
The only 'performance' gain one gets from journaling is after an unclean dismount (a crash or power outage). The system will boot up much quicker, but that's it.
Here are some real-world lessons that I learned the hard way:
;)
1. When it comes to business, it's every man for himself... you *really* have to see it that way or some other guy will eat your lunch.
2. Nothing personal, but fuck you. (you being anyone asking for money that isn't compelled by law or contractual obligation). It's simple really, you want people to give *you* their money... not the other way around, got that?
3. Never give anyone a break... that's not how rich men become rich. Do you think that they'd give you a break? Does your landlord give you a break on a month's back rent? How bout the cell phone company... sure, they'll let you skip the early opt-out penality on your 2-year contract
4. Work for yourself... put yourself first 100% of the time. You're in business for you, no one else.
5. It's just business, nothing personal, but fuck you.
With point number 5 constantly in mind, go get 'em tiger. Enough of this cry-baby OSS/Free Software crap. This guy gave grsecurity away for free. No one made him do it. Let's all hope he learned a lesson, I sure as hell did.
Kudos to RMS and Torvalds for giving away top-notch software *and* for not expecting anything in return other than recognition... that's all I've ever given them, and all I ever will.
It's simple really:
One can look at lava flows and see, physically which direction the rock particles were polarized. Not much guess work there.
Tell me exactly what the average annually temperature was 350,000 years ago in North America. Can you? More importantly, how certain are you about what you say? Scientists argue about this stuff... it borders on religion... one needs faith to believe it.
That's what I mean when I say our data only goes back 100 years or so. I should say that we have an acurate, recorded history of temps, etc. (a solid data set that is not "open to interpretation") for that period of time where as before we didn't.
I'm not a natural-scientist, just a CS/mathematician. One thing that I've never understood about the global warming debate is this:
We know that over the last 100 years that the world-wide temp has gone up by roughly 1 degree. But before that time period, there is no climate data at all. So, how can we conclude that this is unnatural or not?
Or, more importantly, how can we use a ~100 year data set to make forecasts on a planet that is millions of years old. I mean hell, we know that the magnetic field inverts every couple 100,000 years and that we're over due for that... maybe the world gets a little hotter ever couple of 100,000 years too???
Isn't this possible?
Does anyone actually use this crap? Who wants to provide testing for a company that's publicly said they don't want home or SOHO users?
RH only wants 'home-nerds' to test out their SW on behalf of the more privledged 'enterprise-nerds'. Be a sucker if you like, but realize that you're being used by RH once again.
I call bullshit.
I use many different systems... I administer several hundred Win, Mac, Unix and Lin systems (98% Windows). I'm typing this on a Debian GNU/Linux unstable box right now. Here's the one observation I have about MS Windows: Yes, Windows has problems, but the benefits to using it (applications, all users know it, it's everywhere, etc.) outweigh the risks (worms, trojans, viruses, etc). And, more importantly, the risks, although great, are very managable from an IT perspective. Intelligent managers know this.
In short, Linux isn't going anywhere outside of your geeky little circle of friends. Yes, I too am a geek, but I'm also an IT business manager who can calculate risk/reward, and currently, Windows is a big winner over Linux and Mac and Unix. PERIOD.
They are just worried about not having a number to call.
Please tell me who they would call for service/support on Windows 98 or NT in the year 2004? Certainly not Microsoft... so the library being concerned about "Offical Vendor" support doesn't seem to be a factor here as they were running old, unsupported software to begin with.
Not to metion the fact that there's virtually no support from MS even when the software in question is still "Officially" supported by them. The whole idea of them actually standing behind their product and answering consumer phone calls is a myth.
Didn't Red Hat say a few months ago that they were not going to compete with MS at the desktop level? Why would you waste $5 per month on a company that in a year might say "oh we made a mistake we cant make money off of this lets toss the whole thing in the toilet."
Excellent point. That's the very reason we droped Red Hat all together.
After the RHL end-of-life fiasco, I'd never give these jerks money, much less time of day. No one else should either... they had their chance and they blew it... you can't stab a guy in the back and then turn around and offer to help him up. And, don't act surprised if he tells you to go fuck yourself RH.
It can update automatically, it's stable and well supported by a great community of users and developers.
And, you'll never end up with a knife in your back while some ivory tower asshole talks about how edu and SOHO customers are useless to the company's bottom line.
Sorry to sound so bitter... but RH still doesn't understand the fullness of what they've done to themselves. They *had* mindshare, they *had* the grassroot movement, they *had* Linux and the only real channel into Joe User's home (that's why MS is now giving Sun and IBM tough competition in the small server market).
Now, RH has a few hundred CIOs in corporate America and they *think* what they did was smart. 5 - 10 years and they'll be a has-been and it will be directly related to they way they fucked-up RHL.