Fedora Core 2 released to Mirrors, Bittorrent

tom taylor writes "Fedora Core 2 has been released to mirrors, due for public consumption on Tuesday 18th May. However, you can grab it now via BitTorrent, so get it while it's fresh! It's available in both the 4 CD or DVD versions."

Comments

if/when i get reconnected to the big line

[Anonymous Coward]

i'll add ~20MB of bandwidth to the cd torrent. damn isp. >_>

Re:if/when i get reconnected to the big line

[naros]

Get it from here (Gigabit): ftp://acmserver.cs.ucr.edu/fc2

Re:if/when i get reconnected to the big line

[naros]

I meant: Get it from here (Gigabit): ftp://acmserver.cs.ucr.edu

Re:if/when i get reconnected to the big line

[Anonymous Coward]

why is it only 75mb? hahaha
fake dl site

Is this the final release or test3?

[macnamee]

I don't want to download 4GB for nothing

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[boardumb]

test3 came out at the end of April.
this is the final

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[Fentisen]

Why is it so big? Well they give you a lot of packages on the CD but these packages needs to be updated later. Anyone who knows how much disk space a full/medium/tiny install requires?

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[boardumb]

oh yeh just as a P.S., the official schedule is here

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[phrasebook]

In other words, this is test4.

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[M1FCJ]

No it isn't. May 14 was the release to mirrors date. This is a part of that I understand. It's the real thing.

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[Cebu]

The Fedora Core 2 schedule release schedule indicates that this the final Core 2 release.

The core was supposed to be released for mirrors on the morning of May 14th, then the open release will be announced on May 18th. Presumably there should be sufficient mirrors to manage to the load by then.

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean a lot of packages that
(1) 99% of people don't use or care about
(2) will be outdated in a month
(3) forces you to have every CD to complete a minimumally-usable install because the important packages are spread across multiple disks
(4) Profit

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[naros]

The DVD and CD's will be added to the UCR ACMSERVER at 8pm this evening. It has 1 gigabit of bandwidth. Location: http://acmserver.cs.ucr.edu/fc2

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[Fentisen]

That was exactly what i meant. Well there is one thing to add in your list. Since there is 4 cd's it is much easier to buy it than download it. So then we got, (5) More profit

Re:Is this the final release or test3?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a joke, dude. He was saying the quality of FC2 Final will be about as good as another test release would be.

Great

[arvindn]

Despite all recent negative publicity, Fedora is a great distro for the hobbyist desktop. I've been running FC1 since its release without any problems. I wish they'd stuck to 3 CDs though. IIRC, the 4th CD consists of lots of languages (and nothing else) so most people can skip it. Kernel 2.6, gnome 2.6, kde 3.2... can't wait.

Re:Great

[Amiga Lover]

Is there a PPC version?

Re:Great

[iamsure]

Not having english as your official language is one heck of a long distance away from "cannot speak one word in English".

Some googling found..

According to research by the British Council, "English has official* or special status in at least seventy-five countries with a total population of over two billion. English is spoken as a native* language by around 375 million and as a second language* by around 375 million speakers in the world. Speakers of English as a second language will soon outnumber those who speak it as a first language. Around 750 million people are believed to speak English as a foreign language

That puts the number at over 1.5 billion people able to speak "one word in english" at least.

Thats ignoring the "most computer users speak english" argument.

So yeah, I'd say for a decent number of people, CD #4 can probably be skipped.

Re:Great

[jm.one]

Those people won`t read slashdot. indeed mist of them do neihter have a computer nor access to the internet. Most people who do have access to the WWW and and do not speak English may live in China. Anyways I prefer a distro in my own language (German) so i can`t skip CD 4 anyway

Re:Great

[maxume]

This comment is in no way insightful. Come on. Sure, major chunks of India/China/Europe don't speak English as thier primary language, but they are more than likely to known at least a word or two. Throw in the fact that many of the people who don't have computers are probably the same ones who don't speak any english, and the situation just continues to deteriorate.

Re:Great

[cobbaut]

Nobody knows how many people speak English:

Estimates go as low as 977 million people have notions of English. Or up to 1.5 billion.

The average googling for "how many people speak English" gets to One in Five in the world. So only 80% of the world has no notion of English at all...

By the way, Google Zeitgeist shows that about half of their visitors use Googles English interface. So i estimate that about half of the FC2 users will need the 4th CD.

Re:Great

[JanneM]

"knowing a word or two" != "wanting to run the destop in English". I speak, read and write English fluently, and I prefer to have my desktop in Swedish anyway - together with support for Japanese, as I am studying the language.

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, thats true. Many people in the world do not speak English well enough or prefer another language and thus want their desktop to run a non-English language. But since at least a plurality of Fedora's target audience would most likely use the English language support, at least a pluarlity of Fedora's target audience it seems would have no use for the 4th disk. Thus it would make sense to consider the 4th disk "optional".
Lets try to avoid the debate over whose language is the best for now.

Re:Great

[j-pimp]

By the way, Google Zeitgeist shows that about half of their visitors use Googles English interface. So i estimate that about half of the FC2 users will need the 4th CD.

Your equation is missing several variables. First, their seems to be a thriving South American Linux community. However, you dont take into account whether these people are using something linke Connectivtz thats specifically for Spanish Users or something like redhat or SuSe with internationalization support.Secondly, in Europe, SuSE is supposedly the Big Linux Player, Thirdly, in many countries, such as Egypt, it seems linux has no market penetration. Luckily people are changing that.

Re:Great

[lokedhs]

That might be true. But I, as a native swedish speaker who also speaks english pretty well, still prefer to use the swedish version of Fedora.

So I still think the original estimate was pretty good.

Re:Great

[blixel]

really, do most people speak english ?

Sí, Oui, Ja, Sim, ,

Re:Great

[Pros_n_Cons]

Fedora is starting to pick up after the bad publicity because slowly the emotional "red hat is microsoft" knee jerk reaction has died down as people have become informed with the slow trickle facts.
Red Hat made a marketing blunder but when all is said and done, It's only marketing. Instead of Red Hat is now open, we heard, red hat beat baby seal with MCSE tech manual.

Re:Great

[Dri]

I've rolled in FC1 on our production servers, so just to make it clear that RHFC is *not* just a desktop OS. RedHat can go F**K themselves, I won't pay 1000 for something that is completly free and I've never ever needed any commercial support.

Re:Great

[Pharmboy]

No PPC version. Fedora only supports the various i386 flavours. Redhat used to support Alpha and Sparc, but I think they dropped everything but i386/i64/amd64 a few versions back.

Try yellowdoglinux.com for a PPC version of Linux. Or OS-X ;)

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't pay for commercial support (or RHEL) on most of our productions servers, either, just like we didn't buy a boxed copy of Red Hat or an RHN entitlement for every production box we had before Red Hat was really pushing RHEL. We've got lots of in-house expertise, so we just don't need it.

On the other hand, we have a few important database boxes (running Oracle) where a tiny bit of additional peace of mind is easily worth the cost of a RHEL license. In those cases we gladly pay.

I don't see why Red Hat needs to fuck off. They've given us great options and flexibility about what we do and don't pay for. Try buying from Microsoft for a while and see how you feel.

By the way, you can say "fuck." If you feel the need to say it, just say it. Censoring yourself makes you look stupid.

Re:Great

[DJStealth]

Since Slashdot, to my knowledge, is completely in English. I would guess that 99% of people reading these comments will NOT NEED the 4th CD. (However, some may want it if they speak other languages as well)

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you're in neither the second nor the third grade, and I don't recall seeing you amongst the first graders either...but hey

Re:Great

[dtfinch]

So you want Redhat to go fuck themselves because they distribute free software, but offer paid support to the businesses that demand it?

You can download their server versions for free as well (last time I checked, it's been a while).

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian supports more archs than any other linux distro, which also includes PPC.

Re:Great

[10Ghz]

OS X is not Linux, so why use it? Fact is that some of us want to run _LINUX_ on PPC, not OS X.

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Every one here speak English. But a lot of people here also speak (and write) an other language. Som svenska med sina åäö:)

Re:Great

[Dri]

Sorry for getting all microsoft'ish. RedHat is a good company, _but_ with a twisted marketing department.

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Fedora has been keeping their rpm collection up to date. There are a ton of mirrors, one such being: http://ftp.ens.utulsa.edu/pub/linux/fedora/core/de velopment/ppc/ Though there is no install program, you can take just about any RPM-based system (debian, yellowdog, etc.), point yum twords one of those mirrors, and you'll have quite the up-to-date Fedora box...as opposed to yellowdog. (Gnome 2.2, glibc 2.2, anyone?).

Re:Great

[darkonc]

I second the anon coward. The fact that someone can read/write English doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know (and love) one or more other languages. I have friends who are fluent in English that would just love the opportunity to interact with Linux in other languages (Russian, Dutch, Portugese, French, German and Bulgarian all come to mind).

Just for the convenience of friends, I load my home desktop box with a few extra languages -- even though my only human non-english language I can claim any real understanding of is French (and that is minimal).
Oh, and how could I forget Chinese... I've taught soooo many chinese students in the last couple of years, and I've lost count of how many of them have borrowed my Linux CDs to try at home.

Re:Great

[anyweb]

agreed its fantastic i've installed Fedora Core Release 2 (Tettnang)now on two machines, one a desktop and one a laptop. It installed perfectly on both and looks wonderful. screenshots here The Installation:- http://linux-noob.com/fcr2/install/ Post install:- http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtop ic=737 cheers anyweb

Re:Great

[Eivind]

Brilliant logic !

Do you really think that everyone who knows enough english to read slashdot prefers their desktop in english ?

Or even that everyone who speaks and writes english fluently wishes their desktop to be english ? Here's a hint: most educated people in the world speak multiple languages, in the western world english as a second or third (like for me) language is quite common. Doesn't mean I won't put my desktop in Norwegian.

DVD Version?

[TheLoneCabbage]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

I know it's a test platform but do they need to include a test copy of war and peace with EVERY release? Does anyone have a particulary clever reason (besides source disks) why it needs to be this frigging big?

This is one of the big reasons I switched to Debian, I didn't want to get sadled with a multigig *BASIC* install. No flame wars, please, but for my personal taste I can't fathom RH any more.

Re:DVD Version?

[Anonymous Coward]

debian has a dvd version
woody is about 7 cds for the i386 binarys alone

Re:DVD Version?

[fostware]

Yeah, it can't be that big... Knoppix is one CD has 2.4 and 2.6 kernel, OpenOffice, and a veritable truckload of tools.
Even with all the different languages, three CDs should be fine.

Re:DVD Version?

[Epistax]

Everyone else is jumping off the bridge, I might as well too! Good point!

Re:DVD Version?

[tokul]

you can start with 35-200 Mb version and get other packages from local mirrors.

It is possible that other distros have similar things too, but only debian talks about it on frontpage.

I've done several debian installs. None of them used official cds. Only netinstall or boot floppies.

Re:DVD Version?

[bubkus_jones]

But you don't need those CD's or DVD. You can get by with the primary install cd, installing enough to get up the bare bones system. Everything else can get downloaded/installed via APT (or one if it's GUI tools, like Synaptic).

Re:DVD Version?

[subStance]

Funny, actually, since I think War and Peace by itself might even fit on a floppy.

Re:DVD Version?

[Anonymous Coward]

But you don't need those CD's or DVD. You can get by with the primary install cd, installing enough to get up the bare bones system. Everything else can get downloaded/installed via APT

The same applies to Fedora.

Re:DVD Version?

[nycsubway]

Things have changed since the days of DOS 3.3. It ran on one platform. It had no GUI, networking, and no utilities besides basic file handling and a BASIC compiler.

Although, a trimmed down version of Fedora Core X would be very useful. Possibly a version where you could install just the base OS and GUI and then you could download all the extra packages you want. Sort of like the Mozilla install.

Re:DVD Version?

[bubkus_jones]

Maybe so, but apt is part of a Debian-based system. The last time I've tried it on an RPM based distro, it was a major pain in the ass to set up (Mandrake 9 and RH8), I dont' think I ever got it to work properly. On Debian systems, Apt is set up and ready to go. As far as other apt-like systems for RPM, I haven't tried them. My toils with apt-rpm were enough to remind me why I like debian systems.

Re:DVD Version?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

Well in my day, DOS 1.1 fit on one 160k floppy. We didn't need no fancy schmancy hard drives or directories. We only had one directory and everything fit in it. AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY!

Re:DVD Version?

[maxbang]

Not my version. I scanned in each page at 1200 dpi and saved them as tiff files. Now I pine for the day when Apple releases the iRead version of the iPod, or at least for the day when I realize my brain is 95% harvati cheese.

Re:DVD Version?

[Anonymous Coward]

where can I download debian's dvd version ??

Re:DVD Version?

[mikis]

So does Gentoo.

Re:DVD Version?

[Eric Smith]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

In my day, DOS 3.3 fit on a single 143K floppy, and left 126K of that for user files! It was a nice improvement over the earlier versions (DOS 3.1, 3.2, and 3.2.1), which only supported 116K floppies.

DOS 3.3 was also an improvment over many of its successors in that it allowed long filenames and sparse files. Not bad for an 8-bit 1 MHz machine in 1980. Microsoft didn't catch up until the mid-1990s.

Re:DVD Version?

[Eil]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

In my day, DOS 3.3 fit on a single 720k floppy with room to spare. (Double-density, Hoorah!)

Re:DVD Version?

[Guspaz]

War and Peace is a book, why save them as images? Text makes more sense.

I downloaded the text version off Project Gutenberg (3.12MB) and RAR'd it. Manually tweaking the compression settings I managed to get it down to 720KB. Throwing in a DOS self-extractor brings that up to 815KB.

I'm sure the remaining 625KB on a standard diskette would be enough for a barebones DOS, RAM disk executable (for extracting War and Peace to memory for viewing), text viewer, and file system overhead.

And there you have it. A portable diskette that turns any PC into a lean, mean, war-and-peace-presenting machine!

Re:DVD Version?

[Short Circuit]

With just a few floppy disks (rescue, root, and driver disks 1, 2, 3 and 4), you can install virtually the entire thing over the Internet.

But the DVDs are good for those who want all the packages available in as few discs as possible.

Re:DVD Version?

[ryen]

because it contains prebuilt packages for everything? go gentoo =)

Re:DVD Version?

[maxbang]

Perhaps that extra 625KB could be used to store a sense of humor :)

Re:DVD Version?

[LnxAddct]

I personally like apt-rpm but I am also a big fan of yum. yum kind of took the best parts of apt and improved them, kinda like emerge did too.I run debian and fedora, and apt is superior at some things but yum holds its own in many areas as well, its also a bit easier to use. Assuming you already know enough about apt, here is a link to read about yum.
Regards,
Steve

Re:DVD Version?

[Guspaz]

Nah, I don't think you could fit it. Though perhaps with compression... :p

Re:DVD Version?

[blixel]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

And systems had 128K of RAM, 5MB hard-drives, and 4MHz processors...

Re:DVD Version?

[BlowChunx]

Knoppix does it by using cramfs...

Re:DVD Version?

[TyrelHaveman]

Well, my DOS 3.3 fit on one single-sided single-density 320k 5-1/4" floppy! Yeah...

Re:DVD Version?

[HiThere]

yum certainly has it's points, but I generally prefer to use a combination of apt-get and synaptic, with an occasional forray into aptitude, when the dependencies get strange. It usually doesn't help, but it's nice to have the option.

OTOH, with a recent Fedora fc1 when I wanted to install pygame, synaptic wanted to remove much of kde, and apt-get just flat-out refused, but yum installed it with only a couple of extra files downloaded. Go figure.

Re:DVD Version?

[lemox]

Yeah, but unlike RH (and thus, I'm assuming, Fedora), you're given package selections that reflect what media you have. So if you have one CD, you're only prompted to install what's on that one CD. AFAIK, RH based distributions just allow you pick what you want without even letting you know if package foo is on the third or fourth disk, and in my experience, if you lack that third or fourth disk, the install just craps out forcing you to start over again. People bitch about Debian's installer, but for what it lacks in friendilness, it is by and far the most flexible installer out there.

Re:DVD Version?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know in my day DOS3.3 still fit on one 1.44 floppy!

Well, back in MY day, we didn't even have floppies! The computer sales rep just screetched the z/modem tones into my ear over the phone, and I had to enter the bits directly into the CPU using the front panel switches! And I was grateful, dammit!

Re:DVD Version?

[johnnyb]

Of course, QNX has all of these except basic, and it fits on a floppy. It even includes a half-decent web browser.

Re:DVD Version?

[discogravy]

sorry to nitpick, but not all 7 CDs are binaries -- there's at least one (I think the last two or three actually) source CD. (and the only way to get debian on DVD is to burn your own with jigdo or maybe get a reseller (who does the same thing...)

Re:DVD Version?

[KinkyClown]

I know it's a test platform but do they need to include a test copy of war and peace with EVERY release?

Humm.. I had a copy on my 2MB Palm V so, that would not make it 4 CD's :)

Re:DVD Version?

[nfsilkey]

Its dated. And last time this newbie tried to jigdo a new sarge DVD off templates from the .dk mirror, jigdo threw up after lying to me all weekend. Hooray for jigdo!

No wonder those jigdo templates are "unofficial". ;)

Re:DVD Version?

[dspyder]

Actually, the lack of a floppy install is a minor/major sticking point for those of us trying to install on old computers or laptops that the bios can't boot from CDRom.

Of course, try installing FC2 with any graphical component in less than 1.2 gig.

--Darren

Re:DVD Version?

[blugu64]

in my day Mac System 6 fit on one 800k floppy and had room to spare!! (and it was all graphical!) (annd you can play that puzzle game!)

Re:DVD Version?

[jsav40]

"...I know it's a test platform but do they need to include a test copy of war and peace with EVERY release? Does anyone have a particulary clever reason (besides source disks) why it needs to be this frigging big?...'

I've been running Fedora Core 1 for awhile now & have also been running Core 2 test 1, 2 & 3- The "minumum" install is all off of disc 1 of if memory serves, maybe 550 MB. Just install the minimum & add whatever else you want using yum (up2date/apt whatever). My preferred workstation install tends to run just shy of 2 GB and requires all 4 discs. YMMV

Huge sucker.

[Anonymous Coward]

metainfo file.: FC2-i386-DVD.iso.torrent
info hash.....: 2449247c12eb6cb0fc1e8feb8e293a89668ab1a7
file name.....: FC2-i386-DVD.iso
file size.....: 4370640896 (16672 * 262144 + 176128)
announce url..: http://underscore.no-ip.com:6969/announce

Re:Huge sucker.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does bittorrent store last-modified timestamps as well? If it doesn't, then ftp and http has one thing over it.

I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Noose For A Neck]

Bittorrent seems like an odd way to distribute files for any extended length of time. It wholly depends on how many people are downloading it at any specific moment, so when you come back maybe 3 days later, the download speeds drop to a trickle because you're the only one downloading the file now. And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

Why not put it on a P2P network like eDonkey? People will probably have other downloads moving at the same time, so the particular file will have much more sources for a much longer period of time than with Bittorrent.

Really, Bittorrent seems like a poor solution to a problem better solved by real P2P software.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[nother_nix_hacker]

I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid. Why not put it on a P2P network like eDonkey?

Because, you idiot, eDonkey works in much the same way. No-one uploading mean you don't get the file.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[chaffed]

Right, bittorrent is not a good persistent conduit. However that is midigated by the mirrors that pop up on standard HTTP and FTP servers. Bittorrent is just a great way to get a lot of large files out to a lot of people at the same time while using a little bandwidth as possible.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Junta]

But it scales at worst case no worse than http/ftp so long as the hosting providers normally providing http/ftp allocate equal resources to serving bittorrents. When you are the only user of an http/ftp site, you get satisfactory speeds, so bittorrent would do fine for that scenario. Times like this where http/ftp services would crumble under the load, bittorrent offloads the work effectively and yields better download speeds than http/ftp do when there is only one client.

The thing with bittorrent is that you can get a small seed from an official source and be more assured that the content you are downloading is, in fact, what you want and not a trojan with the same name that turned up on some P2P network search. MD5 sums can help this, but it means in the event of an incorrect download, you've wasted your time and bandwidth. BitTorrent provides a distribution method with more verifiable authenticity before downloading than most P2P networks, and that is very valuable for this application.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[EpsCylonB]

It wholly depends on how many people are downloading it at any specific moment, so when you come back maybe 3 days later, the download speeds drop to a trickle because you're the only one downloading the file now. And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

Doesn't the tracker host have a copy of the file though ?, if there is always one complete copy of it then there is no problem. As for leaving the client open, you could force this on the user.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Noose For A Neck]

I'm afraid your reading comprehension skills are below-average even for a Slashdotter. What I wrote just two sentences later was the justification for my reasoning, two terms I'm sure lacking in your vocabulary.

To recap: eDonkey clients are up longer because people are more likely to make multiple downloads with eDonkey while Bittorrent users usually close the application window after their (one! always one!) download is finished.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[rokzy]

>As for leaving the client open, you could force this on the user.

no you can't, you can only piss people off by making things awkward.

how can you stop all of these...
-killing the client
-uninstalling the client
-blocking the client with firewall
-going offline
-turning off the computer ...?

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Kevin108]

The only things to understand about BitTorrent is that it's nearly a free way to distribute something. Why sacrifice your own servers and bandwidth when you can use other peoples'? The other thing to understand is IT'S SLOW AS SHIT. I hate it but a lot of times it's the only way to get things, especially DVD ISOs. Cheap ass distribution companies.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[RickHunter]

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file

Yup, that's right folks. The 400+ seeds you often see for hours on newly-released anime digisubs are ALL people recruited by the fansubbing groups. NONE are just regular downloaders who leave their clients open. Not one. Yes, this means that fansubbing groups must be in excess of a couple thousand people each.

Get a clue. Its regular behavior to leave a BT client open for at least an hour afterwards. Not only that, but you don't have to have a complete copy of the file to upload. BT clients exchange bits of the file, so you're uploading while you're downloading, which saves on the bandwidth provided by the clients used to "officially" seed a file. Despite what you say, in practice, BT works quite well - people are willing to be altruistic because the protocol rewards them for it.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[LiquidCoooled]

Your right, eDonkey and the other sharing tools make ALL the files available in your share folder available whenever you have eDonkey running.

Because of the decentralised way that torrents work, it would be useless to attempt the same with them. A torrent is available for the duration that one person holds a tracker file open. I love the totrent concept because it means that as well as "flash mod" assistance in getting a file quickly, you are only ever sharing 1 file at a time, and the worst the *AA could do is get you for that one file.

Treat a torrent like a freshly baked cake - get it while its hot.
If you miss it, then go looking at the other p2p programs.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dougmc]

Bittorrent seems like an odd way to distribute files for any extended length of time.

Perhaps, but it's an awesome way to distribute them when six gazillion people want something large the moment it comes out. FC2 definately falls into this category right now.

And even once the initial flood of demand has been satisfied, it scales at least as well as downloading via a web or ftp site -- and much better if two or more people are downloading. FC is popular enough that it will probably have at least two people downloading (probably many more) it at any given time until FC3 comes out.

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

You're wrong. People DO leave their BT clients open longer than needed to download the file. Some people do have extra bandwidth to spare, and some will leave it open just because they saw it was going to take 4 hours to download, so they went to bed and didn't come back for 10 hours.

And even if they don't, it still works, because they were uploading while they were downloading.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[LiquidCoooled]

/checkspelling

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[kasperd]

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file

I did when downloading FC1. Actually I had forgotten it was running and didn't terminate it until a few days later asked by a system administrator where this BT traffic was comming from. I think their strategy sounds good. The first few days a lot of people is going to download it, so bittorrent is a good choice. And by waiting a few days before opening the HTTP/FTP servers for the public, they get more people using bittorrent and have bandwidth to get it to the mirrors. Of course there will be load on the mirrors when that version is available. But as soon as the load on the mirrors start to decrease you might want to download it that way instead of through bittorrent. Anybody who wants to wait a month or longer before downloading probably isn't going to use bittorrent, but by that time there shouldn't be as much load on the mirrors. There are only two things I'm wondering about. Why doesn't Fedora include the bittorrent client? And why don't they make updates available for download with bittorrent? When a large security update is announced, it is very hard to get a connection to the server.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bittorrent does not rely wholly on the peers for bandwidth. RedHat and the mirrors may also host seeds on a fat pipe, but the peers greatly reduce the bandwidth required and allow it to scale up to an astronomical number of users so long as a the tracker can handle it. Traditionally mirrors only allow ~500-1000 simultaneous users. With Bittorrent I've seen ~30,000 in the case of a.scarywater.net probably with a much higher ceiling than that at a cost of 2.5 Gb/s.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[mindstrm]

Despite the naysaying, there are usually sufficient numbers of people constantly downloading this file for quite a while, making bittorrent work just great. Provided there are a few seeds left up (which there would be, form the original source)... it's at worst no worse than a normal FTP from a mirror. As soon as you get more than one person downloading, it's faster.

comparing it to edonkey is silly... apples and oranges. They are not even related.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[mattdm]

Bittorrent seems like an odd way to distribute files for any extended length of time.

Well, exactly. That's not what it's good for. It's good for initial releases just like this.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dougmc]

The other thing to understand is IT'S SLOW AS SHIT. Hardly. I regularly get 200 KB/s+ (bytes, not bits) downloads from bittorrent downloads. Right now, I'm getting 55 KB/s for FC2 -- not that fast, but then again I just started it up. I fully expect it to pass the 200 KB/s mark before it's done.

Were it not for bittorrent, I'd be getting 0 B/s -- because it wouldn't be available at all until they loaded up all the mirrors. And once they did, I'd get about 20 B/s, as they'd all be massively overloaded for a week.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Raven42rac]

The thing is, the model works if you make people upload what they download or they get banned from that particular site/tracker. If you threaten to stop the free lunch, suddenly everyone is altruistic.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Autumnmist]

The tracker doesn't necessarily host a copy of the file itself. The tracker only takes care of the .torrent file and distributes the list of peers and seeds.

The original uploader/creator of the torrent will be the original seeder of the file.

From wikipedia:
First, a small file with a .torrent extension is distributed via conventional means. This file is static, so it is often placed on regular websites or even distributed by e-mail. The .torrent file contains hashing information for blocks of the file, so the size of it depends on the size of the file or group of files that it refers to. It also contains, hardcoded, the address of a so-called "tracker server" (often called simply "tracker") which is used to locate sources that have the file or parts of it.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[rokzy]

>people are willing to be altruistic because the protocol rewards them for it.

just a nitpick - that's not altruism.

how does this reward work? ATM I'm downloading at 4KiB/s and up at 30KiB/s, generally I upload twice as much as I download. where's my "reward"?

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[EpsCylonB]

Well the point is that there is always one complete copy availiable (otherwise how could it spread in the first place) so it can't be worse than normal http/ftp can it ?

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Kevin108]

3 Kibs down, 27 kibs up on a 768k downstream. BitTorrent blows goats.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dougmc]

3 Kibs down, 27 kibs up on a 768k downstream. BitTorrent blows goats.

Then turn it off and wait for the ftp site.

Of course, I'll have it today, thanks to the goat blowing effectiveness of bittorrent. It's already 6% done. Not too bad for something that won't even be available via ftp for days.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[justins]

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

Well, you're also relying on the fact that a lot people aren't going to be sitting at their computer waiting to turn off bittorrent the instant the download is complete.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dheltzel]

It wholly depends on how many people are downloading it at any specific moment, so when you come back maybe 3 days later, the download speeds drop to a trickle because you're the only one downloading the file now. And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

That's the whole point! After a few days, when everyone already has it, getting the ISO's the conventional way from the mirrors is no problems, but when the ISO's are first out, BT works great.

And a lot of people (like me) do leave their Torrents run for a while. I throttle the upload (--max_upload_rate) so it doesn't hurt my interactivity much at all and let is run as long as possible, usually several days. I get a good feeling from being altruistic, and I bet I'm not that rare.

Have you actually tried BT, or just read about it and decided it's not worthwhile? I'm amazed each time I use it. It often starts slow (right now it says it will take 1426 hours to download!) but then it really picks up (I'll be surprised if it takes more than 3 hours, probably less). It's always seemed faster than a straight download, and I'm giving back while getting my "fix". It's a win all around, IMO.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[klevin]

I've noticed that my download speed can vary rather a bit. It usually starts out quite slow and then kicks up several notches after a while. Also, you can start the official client from the command line with the "--max_upload_rate" argument. I generally set mine to "--max_upload_rate 5". I also use the "tc qdisc" command to limit the maximum outgoing bandwidth to just below my cable modem's upload limit [1].

Most cable modems use a shared pool of resources for incoming and outgoing data and are set to give preference to outgoing packets. If you're running at the maximum upstream bandwidth, your cable modem spends all of its time dealing with those packets and drops incoming data (which severly limits your incoming bandwidth). So, the "tc qdisc" command keeps multiple BT clients from hogging all of my cable modem's resources.

[1] I use `tc qdisc add dev eth0 root tbf rate 200kbit latency 50ms burst 1540`, which I got off of some webpage, don't remember which one now. It works fairly well, I just turn it off (run the command again, with "del" instead of "add") when I need to send data to another computer on my home network.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[noda132]

Bittorrent seems like an odd way to distribute files for any extended length of time. It wholly depends on how many people are downloading it at any specific moment, so when you come back maybe 3 days later, the download speeds drop to a trickle because you're the only one downloading the file now.

Your observations fly in the face of empirical evidence, which has clearly shown that BitTorrent is in fact the best way to distribute FC2.

Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it won't work.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Eric Smith]

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file

Maybe you don't, but that doesn't mean that nobody does.

When I downloaded fc2test3, I got it in just over an hour, but I left the BT client running for another 12 hours, and the stats show that it uploaded almost 10x as much as it downloaded.

Why not put it on a P2P network like eDonkey?

Nothing is stopping you, or anyone else, from putting it on any P2P network you like.

Really, Bittorrent seems like a poor solution to a problem better solved by real P2P software.

Bittorrent was designed to solve the problem of distributing files that are in high demand. It does this better than most other P2P software, so I'd conclude that Bittorrent is an excellent solution.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

There are no rewards - none! It's digital communism, it doesn't work.

Other BT clients will only send to you at a very slow rate if they cannot connect back to you to confirm you're sharing.

The reward you get for sharing is that your download will be like 50 times faster.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the biggest difference is that eDonkey does not use a centarlized "tracker" server, and BT does.

This makes edonkey a lot more resiliant, but its harder to find all of the file chunks sometimes.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dougmc]

BitTorrent blows goats.

I'm now getting 940 KB/s (kilobytes/s, that's not a typo) down and 870 KB/s up. It should be done in 20 minutes. You'll really have to forgive me if I don't agree that BitTorrent blows goats.

Granted, I have more bandwidth available to me than you do (work doesn't do much on the weekend, so I've got the full big pipe to myself) but it seems to be doing awfully well.

You may want to cap BitTorrent's upstream bandwidth to 75% of your upstream bandwidth. For example, if your upstream bandwidth is 128 kilobits/s, cap BT's uploads at 96 Kb/s. The caps put on cable modems are very unfriendly when you actually hit them -- by hitting your upstream bandwidth, you'll typically slow down your downloads to a similar rate. So rather than uploading 128 Kb/s and downloading 768 Kb/s, you'll get 128 Kb/s in both directions. But if you slow your uploads to 96 Kb/s, your downloads can get the full speed of 768 Kb/s. It's kind of wierd, but it's the way the caps work.

I don't have any experience with DSL -- but it wouldn't surprise me if it works the same way.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[kryptkpr]

You're getting download credits on other clients at a ratio of 3:1 (iirc) .. as you get enough download credits, more and more clients will begin to send to you..

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

But it scales at worst case no worse than http/ftp

BitTorrent's achilles heel is the central Tracker server, which is often overloaded or down, and usually isn't "mirrored" itself.

For things like Linux distros, there is already a huge infrastructure of FTP mirrors on very fast connections. Such a thing does not exist yet for BT Trackers. FTP allows you to poke around a little and find what you are looking for and download it at topspeed. With BT you are stuck with whatever performance the tracker allows.

Now, for movies on suprnova, it works well enough, but legitimate file downloads through BT seem to be more trouble than they're worth, usually.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Znork]

Maybe you have a firewall blocking the torrent ports? IIRC, if the other clients cant connect to your torrent ports that's what will happen to your rates.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Xugumad]

Having just written a paper on BitTorrent (which should be presented at PGNET 2004 if anyone cares), a couple of points:

1. About 20% of people upload at least as much as they download. Which isn't a staggering number (I expected a lot higher), but that's still a reasonable number of people.
2. eDonkey - don't know about you, but I get about 24kbit/s on eDonkey. On BitTorrent, average bandwidth available per user comes out at around 200kbit/s, although I've seen up to 8mbit/s on high-demand torrents.

Oh, and there's another interesting paper at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/pam2004 /papers/148.pdf that covers things like user-count dropoff.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[LordK3nn3th]

How interesting and ironic-- when I read this I was, in fact, seeding a file for a television show I had already downloaded and watched-- I did not turn it off after downloading, and neither do many other people. Oh, and the download speed was much faster than most P2P solutions-- 100 Kb/s on average!

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Jagasian]

Fansubbing has really benefitted from Bittorrent. I think that a really great Animesuki feature would be to make it possible to "subscribe" to various series. This would involve some release event notification mechanism that would automatically trigger your bittorrent client to download a newly released episode. Taking this idea further, you could have a TiVo-like bittorrent based app that even went as far as to make subscription suggestions based on your viewing habits.

Ontop of that, it would be nice if a site like AnimeSuki included reviews, synopsis, and popularity ranks for each anime series.

There is allot of great fansubbed anime out there, but its hard to find something that matches your tastes. Hikaru no Go is by far one of my all time favorite animes, and its fansubbed!

My current favorite is Naruto... yeah, I am having trouble branching out into other series :(

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[stefanlasiewski]

Why not put it on a P2P network like eDonkey?

I was thinking this exact same thing a few weeks ago. I've been experimenting with both eDonkey and Bittorrent over the last few weeks to download and distribute Knoppix and Fedora (core 1) ISO's.

I totally expected Bittorrent to be slower then eMule for the very reasons that you state. However, the opposite is true.

With eMule, I was downloading the Fedora ISO images at about 20Kb/s. Bittorrent averaged over 100Kb/s. In the time eMule downloaded a single Fedora ISO, Bittorrent had downloaded all 3.

Note that core 1 came out many months ago, and the download speed wasn't a trickle.

Also interesting was my upload speeds. With eMule, I was uploading to 4-5 different clients at the same time, at a speed of 2-5Kb/s, for a max of 25Kb/s. There was noticible affect on the rest of my net connections.

With Bittorrent, I rarely uploaded above 5Kb/s. I barely noticed any negative impact on my other net connections.

So in the end: Bittorrent was faster for me, and the payoff was smaller then eMule in terms of using my bandwidth to upload the software.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[16K Ram Pack]

nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file

Well, correction required, because I for one do, and I'm sure lots of others do too. Quite often it's by accident rather than design, but sometimes I'm happy to. Often I have downloaded something just before going to bed. It might have arrived within 2 hours, but the client is running all night. Typically I've given back more in that situation. Sometimes, I'll just let it carry on for the day while I do something else.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

"There are no rewards - none! It's digital communism, it doesn't work."

That's got to be the stupidest fucking thing ever said on this board.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[16K Ram Pack]

Firstly, I regularly get close to my bandwidth on it.

Secondly, a lot of these "cheap ass distribution companies" are companies often giving away software like Open Office. I'd rather they spent money on the software and the rest of us picked up the bandwidth tab.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

He was saying that there are no rewards for seeding. He's right.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Autumnmist]

Well, there's usually at least one copy available (at first), but torrents generally have a short lifespan. Once no more people are seeding (which happens quite easily), it's impossible to download.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm only getting 3k/s down but uploading 128k/s if some people don't start allowing uploading I'm going to kill this connection

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Next time you might want to try quoting so people know what the hell you're talking about.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Kevin108]

This sounds like really good info except...I don't know how to do it! :-) Any tips? Win XP, cable, and McAfee Firewall...

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Kevin108]

Nope, I checked though. BitTorrent is completely unfiltered.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm doing pretty well too -- 350KB/s with a 35KB/s upload (not sure why -- don't want to go poking holes in the firewall to see if it can get better)

I'll stay on until I'm at a 1:1 ratio.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[Omnifarious]

I don't know. I just run it, and within about half an hour, my download is saturating my incoming bandwidth.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[ktulu1115]

I don't have any experience with DSL -- but i.t wouldn't surprise me if it works the same way.

It's funny cause back in college I had DSL and that is *very* common problem with the technology, I always wondered if cable had it. After graduation, moving out, and ordering cable I quickly discovered that fact.

IIRC, the problem (at least for DSL) exists due to a large send queue on the external interface. TCP/IP ack packets had to sit on "line" for too long, therefore the connection speed was throttled down. Since there's no (easy) way to change the modem's queue (at least not on the one I had), I ended up using the Bandwidth-Limiting HOWTO on my RH 7.2 install. It ended up working pretty well until I upgraded it to RH 9 and discovered half the packages were no longer supported and I didn't have time to tinker with it. After I left I turned over control of administration to someone else and last I heard they were using Smoothwall for it.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[ktulu1115]

WinXP... AFAIK not possible to do it (Translated: Either no one has done it yet, or some company has but charges outragiously large prices for it).

If you can, I'd recommend getting a Linux box as a firewall.

If you can't, you might be able to hack together a VMWare (if you can "get" a copy) or Bochs install of Linux. You'd have to do a decent amount of configuring (making your internet connection in Linux, IP forwading/masquerarding, then the tc qdisc implementation to do the actual limiting), but it'd work well. If you configured it right I'm willing to bet it'd beat McAfee's protection and you wouldnt even need it anymore then.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[DeadSea]

Plus it is mesmerizing...

I think I'm in a trance watching all those pieces got put together. Sort of cool, beautiful, and wow I want to watch this all night sort of feeling.

I like my command line, but for some things a GUI gives you the nifty factor.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[dougmc]

WinXP... AFAIK not possible to do it

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.

Most BitTorrent clients now have an option to limit the upload bandwidth used. Even in XP :)

Use it.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[ChaosDiscord]

It wholly depends on how many people are downloading it at any specific moment, so when you come back maybe 3 days later, the download speeds drop to a trickle because you're the only one downloading the file now. And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

And yet... it works anyway.

View it another way: I want to release my new Linux distribution (ChaosDiscordLinux 12.0). I've got my own site to distribute it from, and two guys who are willing to run mirrors.

Option 1: The old school way. I put the files on each site and serve them over HTTP and FTP. The maximum speed I can serve my files at is limited by the bandwidth to those three sites. If I get surprisingly popular, my bandwidth will peg out and things will generally suck.

Option 2: Bittorrent. I run seed the torrent, as do the other two sites. Now, as a worst possible case people who want to download the file are still limited to the bandwidth of those three sites. However, if there are any surges in demand during those surges everyone downloading starts helping each other. End result: at the worst case it's about the same as the old way, but can potentially be good.

Is it perfect? No. But it works damn well. One of the benefits is that it looks and behaves like a simple download manager. Not everyone is interested in the details of being on a file sharing network. I don't want an IRC client, to help distribute searches, to potentially share other files. Bittorrent just makes it work. As an added bonus, Bittorrent requires a certain level of accountability; there is a centralized location to send a DMCA takedown request. This makes it much more palatable for various people squeemish with the generally shady looking P2P services.

I downloaded Red Hat 9.0 months after its release and still found a number of seeds available. It was the fastest ISO download I've ever had. The World of Warcraft beta test is being distributed over Bittorrent and works great. I'm into video games and really appreciate File Rush, which gets me game demos and video footage at lightning speeds. Bittorrent is the only download path I have that regularlly saturates my cable modem.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[ChaosDiscord]

how does this reward work?

If you're uploading the file, other clients give you higher priority to download from them. Clients that never upload anything end up at the bottom of the queues and wait the longest.

ATM I'm downloading at 4KiB/s and up at 30KiB/s, generally I upload twice as much as I download. where's my "reward"?

You can fill your outgoing pipe actually causing downloads to slow down as ACK packets are delayed. Throttle your max upload rate (how you do it varies from client to client) to something less than what you theoretically can do. On my cable modem I tend to set it to 80kbps (out of a theoretical 128). That will probably help. It's unfortunate that this is so frequent; it should ideally self-manage better.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[LinuxLuver]

When i use Bit Torrent, I always leave the client open until it has uploaded the same amouint of data I downloaded....and YES, I do pay for data-volume tranferred. You definitely CAN rely on altruism once you weed out the takers who never give. No one needs them anyway....but THEY need YOU.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[clare-ents]

Downloading from Telehouse in London I've managed to download at close to 30 Mbits - that's 4 cds really quite quickly. My upload rate was around 5 Mbits at the time.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[sql*kitten]

And nobody leaves their BT clients open longer than it takes to download a file - I'm sorry, but relying on people's altruistic behavior is plain stupid.

My policy is to leave the client open for as long as it took me to get the file after the download completes. So if it took 1 hour, I would be distributing the bits of it for 2 hours. I think that satisfies karma while not overly using up my resources.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[RickHunter]

I find that --max_upload_rate 20 is more than enough to ensure that I get a good incoming rate. My outgoing rarely goes above 15 kB/s anyway, and I generally get download rates between 20 and 75 kB/s.

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[RickHunter]

It should ideally, but doing so requires knowledge of the underlying physical network that BitTorrent just doesn't have access to. It can't tell if the slow incoming rate is because ACK packets are getting dropped, because something upstream is configured to choke traffic, because of congestion elsewheres in the network, or any number of other things.

One way to do it might be to set things up so that the client scales back on uploading as download credits accumulate, but I'm not sure how prone that would be to exploitation by less-than-ethical clients. (Though those usually get banned pretty quickly from any sort of large-scale tracker, its still an issue.)

Re:I never understood the Bittorrent thing...

[klevin]

I went with a max_upload_rate of 5 partly because I was starting to get warning notices from my cable company about crossing some limit on the amount of outgoing data per month. I managed to get them to leave me alone by pointing out that the terms of service that I signed never said anything about bandwidth caps. However, the cable company doesn't use annual contracts or anything like that, so all they have to do is send me a new "Terms of Service" and boom, I've got bandwidth caps. No choice. I figured that setting my max upload to 5 would allow me to still participate in BitTorrent's give and take w/o banging on the cable company's door too often.

Even with the lower upload speed, I still routinely get download speeds between 100 K/s and 200 K/s on torrents with a large number of people connected. Plus, the lower upload speed allows me to stay connected over a period of a day or so as a seed w/o consuming large amounts of upstream bandwidth.

The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't download a potentially hacked version of FC2 from unknown sources identified by ip numbers only.

Use the official torrent when it appears on the tracker:

http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Guanix]

I wouldn't worry. MD5sums signed by the Fedora project are included with the images.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Teppich]

No problem with that, you know rpm provides checking for gpg-signature?

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Cornelius42]

But you can start the download the questionably hacked version now. Then tomorrow, switch to the officical torrent. Let bittorrent compare the files for you, or verify the MD5 sums from fedora tomorrow.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

c366d585853768283dac6cdcefcd3a2d FC2-i386-disc1.iso
fc3c926442cc85a469268651bd04c1 86 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
5ad870e696953f4bbd0a9193687389 0e FC2-i386-disc3.iso
c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d748 67 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f 98 FC2-i386-DVD.iso
22f4bfca5baefe89f0e04166e738639f FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso
0c0268f26ed08d24880119e1b44 d45e8 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso
3d17a40489e8dcd3761f166f f264c712 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso
4e798934b399eb78e9e67dec 23d946bb FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso
5d84eb0aecea8bce8e4857d3 e46136c3 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAo8uQtEJp0E8qb9IRAjgnAJ92Rl2 f6K/1Z1DCHB6qinau88WYXgCggF4P
1xFVxG7HVYVGJenIv1o SdrQ=
=yWK+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[JanneM]

If someone has changed these ISO:s in some way, I'd think they'd simply generate new MD5sums to send along as well.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[mukund]

The MD5SUMs are cryptographically signed using the Fedora project's PGP key.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[slashkitty]

That would be great, however the FINAL Core 2 release is not listed there, only test3.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Stickster]

The md5sums are GPG-signed with the Fedora public key, so substituting bad ones isn't really an option. Verify the signature on the md5sum file and check the contents against the md5sums of the images and you're good to go.

And yes, I'm aware that Bittorrent hashes the downloaded blocks, but that wouldn't prevent someone from sending hacked images and along with the original MD5SUM file, hoping people wouldn't bother checking the images.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[JanneM]

Ah, didn't realize that. Thanks for pointing it out. /Janne

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

... and that's because it will be released on the 18th, when it's released.

Today is not the 18th.

Hence it is not released.

Hence it is not on the tracker.

All this leaked release has done is guarantee the mirror sites are going to get pummelled to death before they can get the images in place.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

The md5 hashes were mangled by Slashdot's filters.

gpg: Signature made 05/13/04 14:25:04 using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: BAD signature from "Fedora Project <fedora@redhat.com>"

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Guanix]

But the MD5SUM file is signed by the Fedora Project (fedora@redhat.com)! You can verify it using GPG and a copy of the Fedora GPG key.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[cos(0)]

Can you tell me where the PGP key is? I cannot find a reference to it on their web site, and there is no gpg option to import the key from a keyserver based just on an e-mail address.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

http://fedora.redhat.com/about/security/4F2A6FD2.t xt

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

If the leaked release is only released via bitorrent, it won't matter.

If you anal fucks have the iso, share it. The "we are done but let's wait 3 days because that's what the calendar says" attitude belongs to organizations that have marketing departments and other bullshit. Part of the reason why I'm using linux is to get away from people like you.

Oh, and the torrent linked to in the article doesn't seem to work anyway.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[cos(0)]

Ah, thanks. I did not open the "About" section of their web site because I was expecting only corporate and investor info. They would do well to place a reference to their public key in their "Download" section -- it's the most logical place.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[ErixTr]

Oh, and the torrent linked to in the article doesn't seem to work anyway.

It was working when the article hit the front page. Now the tracker can not be found.

Damn, I only had 588 hours left.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Oloryn]

there is no gpg option to import the key from a keyserver based just on an e-mail address.

Really? Doesn't

gpg --search fedora@redhat.com

work for you?

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[shaitand]

Those are test3, this is supposed to be final release.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[zoloto]

Not really. What better way to find out "about" someone when their pub key is in their "about" page.

Though, linking to the downloads page would make sense to the geek in us.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[no_such_user]

Okay -- they're signed. But HOW does one go about checking the signature? If there's not a point-and-click tool to do this, or at least instructions on how to do it, you can go on about crypto-whatever until you're blue... but the average downloader isn't going to have any desire to bother checking. What's the saying...? Something like 'with a choice between convenience and security, convenience wins every time'.

What (specific) steps do we need to do to verify that the image is authentic? Instructions for both *nix and windows would be welcomed.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone were to go to the trouble of making fake ISOs, couldn't they just substitute a different PGP key?

Of course, you could manually check it, but this should fool the installer.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

Bittorent is worth it in my opinion because Fedora is so very good. I highly recommend it.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Too Much Noise]

Oh, but it's not searching based on the email address - it's based on the key ID. Which you can see, too, if you try --verify without having the key imported (gpg complains about unknown key with that ID).

Also, you can set it up to fetch keys automatically from a keyserver: specify a server and put

keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve

in gpg.conf.

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[mvdde_xh]

If you can't trust CmdrTaco and Slashdot, who can you trust!?

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[Nexx]

What's wrong with placing it in both locations? :)

Re:The OFFICIAL torrent

[jo42]

What official torrent? What official downloads? Ain't seen 'em yet...

Re:Ho Hum...

[dleifelohcs]

only being 'used' if you provide bugreports, etc.

How many people actually do this? Very few. And why are you complaining, you get a free operating system in the process.

oh don't be silly

[mattdm]

A minimal install of FC2 will be 500-something MB.

The "everything" install is considerably smaller than full Debian, which is amazingly (in a good way) comprehensive.

As you well know, your DOS 3.3 floppy had no applications and barely any useful tools. You can do better than that these days with a single (or, okay, probably two) floppy distro with blackbox.

Which you could *make* using Fedora, if you wanted.

Re:oh don't be silly

[TheLoneCabbage]

Take that back!

DOS 3.3 had Edlin!

And if you subscribe to the theory that the simpler something is to use, the less functionality it had... Well Edlin was the most usefull editor EVER!!!

You kids and your fancy electrons!

Re:oh don't be silly

[mattdm]

Of course, Fedora has ed, which blows edlin out of the line-oriented-editor water.

Actually, I helped a blind woman get set up with Linux last year, and she uses ed exclusively -- her braille terminal is only one line, so something like vi is pointless overhead.

(PS: busybox, not blackbox, of course. My earlier post was clearly before I had coffee.)

Yum

[Moth7]

Anyone know if it's possible to upgrade through Yum repositories? I don't know about you, but after the 3 CDs of Core 1, I'm a bit annoyed at the extra 6 for Core 2 :-\

Re:Yum

[phrasebook]

Sounds like Debian would please you.

Re:Yum

[Anonymous Coward]

I've upgraded from FC1 -> FC 2 Test 3 using yum. It basically works, but there are a number of annoying details which I need to fix manually. For instance, sound still doesn't work b/c my laptop's volume keys are deactivated (prob. a 2.6 kernel problem, not a yum problem, methinks).

For people without a CD drive, this is the only way I could figure for installing FC 2. No more boot disks -- the kernel's too big!

Re:Yum

[Blarfy_Snarflepoop]

take a look here: http://linux.duke.edu/~skvidal/misc/fc1-fc2-yum-hi nts.txt

Re:Yum

[LnxAddct]

Was that a joke? Debian's full distro is 7 cds. I know they are optional, but so are Fedora's 4 cds. I've installed a few systems only using one cd.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Yum

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure there is a tutorial on upgrading to core 2 with yum at www.fedoranews.org. I just tried to find it for ya and I couldn't so maybe I'm hallucinating.

Mike

Re:Yum

[BlowChunx]

Try this to fix the unneeded space in 'hints' above...

Re:Yum

[gareth6889]

he was talking about apt-get not downloading 7 cds

it only updates the packages that are installed not all 7 discs

Re:Yum

[tolan-b]

Fedora is updatable through yum or apt-rpm.

Re:Does anyone ever stick with their current insta

[dleifelohcs]

newer things. better versions. faster. bugfixes. security fixes.

I can keep going if you like.

there are plenty of reasons to upgrade your operating system and/or kernel.

What about PPC?

[imidazole2]

Did they release Core2 For the PPC?

Re:What about PPC?

[IANAAC]

Doesn't look like they have it for AMD64 either (well - not 2, they do have it for 1).

Re:What about PPC?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but there's a fairly good guide at http://www.bytebot.net/geekdocs/ibook/fedorappc.ht ml.

Why not?

[Moth7]

If you've got a big connection and can just apt-get/yum/emerge the upgrades, then why not bother - you'll be getting the latest and greatest versions of the software, which can really only be better than the last ones. Dunno how feasible this is in Fedora though and I appreciated that 6 CDs for non-obvious improvements may be a bit much.

Re:Why not?

[shaitand]

FC1 to FC2 also means a fully functional upgrade to the 2.6 kernel and that is one HELL of an obvious improvement.

If you've never made the transition from 2.4 to 2.6 you wouldn't understand. The speed difference is incredible.

Mod Parent Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent has a valid point on how RH does their testing.

Sad thing, is that RH doesn't hide the fact. They have openly stated that some things that do well in FC might go into RHEL.

/disgruntled ex-RH 7.2 user

Re:Mod Parent Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

boo fucking hoo. we get to use what is to become RHEL. those bastards.

too many people here are a bunch of fucking whiners.

GPG key

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.fedora.us/FEDORA-GPG-KEY

Re:GPG key

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.fedora.us/FEDORA-GPG-KEY

That's the wrong key.. Here's the right one: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/security/4F2A6FD2.t xt

Re:Instead of upgrading your Fedora...

[dleifelohcs]

emerge -UD world is a very, very dangerous way to upgrade your system.

emerge -Du world is the way to be. the U implies upgradeonly, when really a bad patch could have been applied. -u keeps you at the latest and greatest version. U can very easily break your system, even if you are Johnny Careful.

Re:Does anyone ever stick with their current insta

[Parinioa]

I ran RH6.2 for the longest time, but ran into problems with tring to update some programs, and really ran into problems trying to install it on my laptop (2 years ago) that was when I updated, when I couldn't do everything I wanted with it. I still have yet to find a distro that I like as much.

Uh No!

[leerpm]

Unlike traditional P2P, Bittorrent was designed especially for purposes like this: Getting large files out to a lot of a people in a relatively short time. Mirrors simply do not scale for this, and those traditional P2P networks like eDonkey are way too slow for downloading something as large as FC.

I don't know about you, but I actually like being able to download the entire set of ISOs in under 12 hours, rather than waiting the required week for my downloads to finish like on other P2P networks.

More torrents needed

[iamsure]

185 hours remaining?!? .. We need to get more people downloading this. Lets post it on..

Crap.

Okay, seriously, whats with the ultra-slow download speeds? At best, I'm maxxing out at 12-14KiB/s.

I'm uploading at over 24KiB/s..

Need more torrents to suck from, methinks.

Re:More torrents needed

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm getting an average of 200k. I may have connected at a later time. If you're still not getting fast speeds, try this:

Get Bittornado. If you're getting a yellow lighty it's because you're getting torrents from a firewally. Forward TCP portys 6881-6945 to your system, disconnect, and try againy.

Re:More torrents needed

[iamsure]

I'm not a newb.

To each point in the faq:

- Be patient, wait for others. Thats the point of my post.

- Make sure torrent is live. Check - downloading is occuring.

- Limiting upload rate can help. Check - its limited.

- Allow outgoing connections. Check - its wide-open, and obviously working, since I mentioned people downloading from me.

- Don't use NAT. Check - not using NAT.

- Firewall has openings for all ports needed.

So whats your brilliant idea, moron.

Re:More torrents needed

[RPoet]

If you're getting a yellow lighty it's because you're getting torrents from a firewally. Forward TCP portys 6881-6945 to your system, disconnect, and try againy.

Thanky for thisy tipsy, my Swedishy friendy. Borky bork.

Re:More torrents needed

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardware firewall? That's NAT. Solvable problem though. Change firewall port "openings" to "forwards".

Otherwise, tough luck.

Re:More torrents needed

[iamsure]

No, they are properly forwarded. Bittornado shows the beautiful blue light, not the ugly yellow.

Troll, but I'll take the bait...

[Moth7]

As a user who migrated my box from FC1 to Gentoo 2004.1, emerge world is all well and good - once you have the thing installed. After the luxuries of anaconda, untarring and compiling the whole system yourself is somewhat tiresome and you are bound to get most of it wrong the first time.
Don't get me wrong, I am a devout Gentoo convert and wouldn't use anything else now, but for someone coming from the graphical handholding of Fedora, the Gentoo install is like walking blind. And heaven help you if you didn't print off the install manual - better hope those Fedora disks are still lying around for you to get your internet connection back after attempt #1.

Re:Troll, but I'll take the bait...

[Pacifix]

That's why the most important tool while working on computers is another computer, even if it's just a Win95 box with Mosaic. It's suicide to deny yourself the great sea of information - and porn - that is the internet.

Re:Troll, but I'll take the bait...

[VXneko]

You don't need divine intervention if you didn't print off the manual... alt-f2 to another prompt and 'links' the docs off the cdrom (or from the net if you set up the nic). alt-f#'ing back and forth can be a pain but it sure beats dual-booting to xp (or other) to troubleshoot. some say it's possible to ssh and control the install from a remote box but i've never tried that (i should!). after using portage, i could never get used to the yum/apt dance required in FC. anyways~

Re:Troll, but I'll take the bait...

[Lord Ender]

The Gentoo install is by far the hardest of the major Linux distros. But you only ever have to do it once. And it is like the one great test you must pass to be allowed to enter the wonderful world of Gentoo. Once you have passed the test, you have access to the most up-to-date, most powerful, and easiest to use package management system in the known universe. No other distro even comes close. But you have to runt he gauntlet first.

Posted from a machine running Linux 2.6.6 and KDE 3.2.2 with OpenOffice 1.1.1 and FireFox 0.8 all higly optimized for my specific hardware.

Re:Troll, but I'll take the bait...

[Killall -9 Bash]

MOD PARENT UP!! INFORMATIVE

the only hard part, IMHO, about Gentoo install is installing X (which is automatically installed and configed in some other distros). Well, ALSA can be a pain sometimes too. =/

smack! -1 Flamebait

[big_groo]

And people talk about windows bloat...*sheesh*

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[afd8856]

Check out the future Longhorn :) I bet you will get an entire new understanding of the "bloat" concept... And don't tell me you'd rather download emacs, openoffice, kde (or gnome) and everything else, just because you want it all on one cd... (BTW, checkout Slackware 9.1, it's very nice distro on one cd...)

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[jayminer]

By the way. Slackware 9.1 is 2 CDs (even though you can install much of the core stuff with CD1).

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[dcstimm]

Yeah If windows came with every application under the sun it would be 4 cds too, Remember linux can fit on a 16kb flash card, but since fedora wants to package every known linux application with their release, they have huge install cds..

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[LMCBoy]

And people talk about windows bloat...*sheesh*

Please. Windows comes with barely any software out-of-the-box. The modern multi-CD linux distro comes with basically everything you'll ever need (and a lot more!). So spare us your lame talk about 'bloat'.

Someone throw this guy a nickel so he can go get a {\it real} OS.

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[johnnyb]

Actually, if you take a look at it:

* Windows - 1 CD
* MS Office - 2 CDs
* VS.net - 3 CDs if I remember (and you only get 1 interface and 3 languages!)
* Photoshop - 1 CD
* Quicken - 1 CD
* Exchange (? never used it)
* SQL Server 2 CDs (I think - it's been a while)
* WinZIpp - download only

And this is only a small subset of what's available on most Linux distributions.

It's not bloat because (a) you can not load it, (b) even if you load it, it doesn't slow you down unless you run it, and (c) you have the freedom to build your own distribution without it.

Re:smack! -1 Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

* VS.net - 3 CDs if I remember (and you only get 1 interface and 3 languages!)

• J#
  
• C#
  
• C++
  
• C
  
• VB
  

You might want to hone that math head a bit. I count 5 languages.

Fedora No Worky!

[fr8_liner]

I tried Fedora recently using a DVD install on my Shuttle w/Athlon XP2400. This was the only distro that completely got lost and went away when trying to start X-Windows. Had to hit reset to start over but eventually gave up. Debian, SuSe and Mandrake all installed fine. Don't know why it happened, but there it is.

Re:Fedora No Worky!

[jbrasch]

I had the same problem had to do with the s3 video adapter that ships with the SHuttle. I found the driver through google works now.

Re:Fedora No Worky!

[kunudo]

Fedora craps itself when I try to install it on a would-be server with a s3 968 card, in graphic mode, the X server just crashes, in text mode, there's an 'unhandled exception'.... has anyone found a workaround? Checked the RH site & goog... :/

Re:Fedora No Worky!

[Anonymous Coward]

start with the option nofb.

Re:Fedora No Worky!

[kunudo]

but is it possible to get it running with the vesa X server after the install?

Re:Fedora No Worky!

[Anonymous Coward]

This site has an s3 driver --> http://www.probo.com/timr/savage40.html

I don't...

[Phil John]

...and I know a lot of other people in the community who don't do that, sure some people will turn their client off straight away but then some people on kazaa or whatnot will just turn off sharing and be e leach.

I've got my bittorrent client (Azureus) running 24x7 but only sharing torrents that need seeders. I stop seeding when there is a seed for every 4 peers (as long as I've upped 50%). When the seed/peer ratio goes down I have Azureus auto start the torrent and continue uploading. This way I give my bandwidth to those torrents that need it most.

I also leave my computer on at night and since I'm on broadband with no cap I keep it uploading stuff. Hey, I'm paying for always on so I may as well use it, plus I'm not saturating the local loop during the day and pissing off other people.

Here's a way to save time and disks

[Pacifix]

FedoraNews.org has a great tip on installing the isos over NFS . This way you can save yourself a few blank CDs and the actual installation takes no time at all.

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[FyRE666]

I actually always do this - although I use http rather than NFS on a local intranet server as it seems more reliable for me... I can't wait to get FC2 installed though; FC1 has been a great desktop OS for me, (I prefer Gentoo for my home server, although I have to use RH servers at work). I did try out the FC2 Test releases, but they were horribly broken due to the selinux patches. Hopefully they removed them in this release... I can't see any point in the selinux stuff, since you can override it all if you're root anyway which sort of defeats the point ;-)

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[Anonymous Coward]

Better way for EVERYONE to save disks:

Use CD-RW discs. I bought a box of 10 for $10 and it's going to last me a very long time.

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[Anonymous Coward]

Try yam for that. It's easy to set up and does everything you need to do to make it work (even for updates and 3rd party repositories).

Yam homepage

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[Anonymous Coward]

Better way for EVERYONE to save disks:

Use CD-RW discs. I bought a box of 10 for $10 and it's going to last me a very long time.

Hahaha.. You obviously haven't used much re-writable media.

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[Johan Veenstra]

You don't even need another machine, just download the iso's, download a bootimage, write a diskette, boot, point to iso directory, install.

Re:Here's a way to save time and disks

[gswallow]

Try using kickstart -- I had Fedora core 2 customized for our environment, including our own RPMS in a day using PXE and kickstart.

Sure to be bitchslapped by meta-mods...

[Moth7]

Because I'd really post a verbatim account of personal experience with my favourite distro, non-AC , just for the hell of trolling O.O Maybe it's flamebait for those without the same experiences, but troll it isn't. Mods these days...

Too late

[Moth7]

Gentoo already did. I'm asking for the benefit of my little brother's box - he likes the look and feel of Fedora and I'm not going to try a source-distro on his ancient i586 ;)

Bollocks...

[Phil John]

...I regularly max out my connection (512k ADSL) downloading a torrent. It gets to the point where the net is unusable it's sucking that much bandwidth. So I use it at night when I'm in bed. Last night I downloaded 1750 MiB in ~8 hours.

Remember, download rate is dependant on your upload rate so if you're only upping at 1k/s you won't be downloading that fast, other peers play tit-for-tat and choke you (don't honour your requests) if you upload blocks too slowly.

Re:Bollocks...

[ErixTr]

so if you're only upping at 1k/s you won't be downloading that fast

Don't worry. I'm uploading at 5k/s and downloading at 1k/s.

You max out your download speed and I max out my upload speed. That is what I call "sharing".

Re:Bollocks...

[Anonymous Coward]

I regularly max out my connection (512k ADSL) downloading a torrent

As far as I'm concerned tales like these are some sort of unpaid pinko commie faggot propaganda. More realistically:

1) Sometimes BT maxes out my ADSL lline
2) More frequently BT sputters along at 15Kb and it's easier just to find a FTP Mirror
3) Sometimes BT doesn't work at all -- the tracker crashes or is overloaded and you don't download shit.

Anyway, can it with the BITTORRENT WILL SAVE TEH INTARWEB stuff-- we've all used it, we all know the hype is mostly bull-fucking-shit.

Depends on your configuration

[Sits]

Apparently there are some systems that yum simply can't handle because it has to update the system while it is "online" (e.g. LVM). So it looks like the answer is "it depends on your set up".

See Seth Videl's post about it. My advice is to wait and see what the pitfalls are since there *will* be gotchas.

...hmm. advogato's being a bit strange today so let me post a quote:

Wrote up some not-yet-finished notes on how to yum update from FC1 to FC2 with relative ease. I'll post a link here when I'm happy. It's not a hard process and for most people it'll work fairly ok. For some people, however, for example, people using LVM, there are certain things yum just can't do, and there is no nice way around it on a running system. This is where anaconda is the only way to do it. Since it is running outside of your installed system it can muck with things w/o worrying about making its environment completely unusable.

where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[dankelley]

I am running Fedora Core 2 Test 3, so I figured it might make sense to upgrade to the official release. (BTW: FC2T3 is pretty well-constructed, so I'm guessing FC2official will be fine.) For fun, I decided to try Bit Torrent.

Unfortunately, when I followed the story's link to bit torrent, and then looked for a bit torrent RPM for to use on my Fedora system, I learned that ... there doesn't seem to be such an RPM available.

I guess I'll be downloading this Fedora update in the old-fashioned way.

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[Anonymous Coward]

and then looked for a bit torrent RPM for to use on my Fedora system, I learned that ... there doesn't seem to be such an RPM available.

Look harder - http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/btrpms/

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[n3m6]

talking out of your ass?
try googling first. It took me 5 seconds to find this

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/1189 92 9/com/bittorrent-3.4.1-0.fdr.2.a.1.91.noarch.rpm.h tml

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[craXORjack]

If you have Java installed you can use Azureus . If you are behind a broadband router, allow port forwarding for anything hitting your outside interface on ports 6881-6899 to be passed to the inside client address.

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[zoloto]

so this is, or this isn't fedora 2 _final?

someone point that out to me, bandwidth isn't a problem, waiting a couple of days for it to be officially released isn't a problem either. i just want to know if now is a good time go download the dvd iso or not.

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[jargoone]

I actually had a question about this. I run btdownloadcurses, and I never opened up the ports on my firewall. But uploading still occurs. How does this happen?

Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?

[Hawke]

I did. There isn't a (perfectly) suitable client there for Fedora Core _2_ (test3).

To help show the problem:

$ rpm -ql bittorrent | grep site-packages | head -1
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/BitTorrent
$ rpm -ql python | grep site-packages | head -1
/usr/lib64/python2.3/site-packages

So the packages there assume python 2.2, and FC2 comes with 2.3, and the paths differ slightly.

$ btdownloadcurses.py | wc -l
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/btdownloadcurses.py", line 7, in ?
from BitTorrent.download import download
ImportError: No module named BitTorrent.download
0
$ PYTHONPATH=/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages btdownloadcurses.py | wc -l
125

Indeed you haven't understood bittorrent ;p

[dmouritsendk]

The idea is that the company distributes the torrent have set up a seeder. This way, if nobody besides your are downloading, you'll still get good download rates because you are the only one accessing the primary seeder. If the primary seeder gets overloaded, it wont matter much since your btclient will download from one of the many other client downloading the file.

Think of this as a peer2peer accelerated download server, not a peer2peer network.

try giving this a look:
http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/introduct ion.htm l

This scalability is the primary reason that mandrake and blizzard is using BT, chances are this why fedora is using it too.

yum?

[Simon (S2)]

Is it possible to update FC1 to FC2 via yum?

Re:yum?

[cybrthng]

worked for me. I had one yum error but i was able to reboot and had no issues. This was on 5 servers as well.

I don't use LVM which apparently is the only big reason you would need the cd's and the installer to upgrade from what i understand.

i'm running FC2 rc3, so i'll yum up later on to the latest stable

NVIDIA

[hawkeyeMI]

Be warned! If you use the NVIDIA binary drivers, they didn't work with FC2-test3 due to the use of the 4k stack option in the kernel. Unless that's changed in the final (I doubt it) you will have to recompile the kernel to use the NVIDIA drivers.

That's all well and good for those of us that know how to do a recompile, but for Joe User it could be a bit of a hang-up.

Re:NVIDIA

[Anonymous Coward]

A new nvidia driver is expected soon which will be compatible with Fedora, possibly in a few weeks. Unfortunatly when your dealing with closed source binary drivers these are the types of things that happen. I agree its not the most pleasant situation but as long as there are closed source vendors out there these types of problems will continue to come up. New users should stick with the opensource nv drivers until Nvidia makes their drivers compatible.

This again is yet another example of why binary drivers are problematic. You won't hear me say don't use them, or were better off without them. People still need these features no matter what the license. But this situation just reinforces how important having a truly free desktop is. You should be able to install your OS, get all of your hardware working, get on the Net, send and recieve email, and work on Office documents ALL with FOSS software. If proprietary closed source software is required for any of the above then the FOSS movement has failed. That's most users can't seem to grapse. Imagine 5 years from now and needing closed source drivers for every single piece of hardware. The kernel devs would be at the mercy of hardware makers and no new features could be added because they might each break some other OEMs hardware. The ONLY reason things work as well as they do now is becaus devs can fix the old code and drivers as new code and features are added to the kernel.

It can be argued that this patch was ill advised and they should have stuck with 8k for now. There I won't argue because its a valid point. I just wanted to point out that the situation wasn't as simple as "Red Hat broke Nvidia's drivers", end of story. Not that the parent was ever implying that.

Recent dicussion on the issue

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF -8 &safe=off&threadm=1UPNn-3Wt-3%40gated-at.bofh.it&r num=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfedora%2520nvidia%25204k% 26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3 DN%26tab%3Dwg

Re:NVIDIA

[Anonymous Coward]

NVIDIA will have to fix the issue soon anyway, since the 4K stack is now the default since 2.6.6. Also, it's been proposed that the option to use the old 8k stack model be removed, and AFAIK it will be removed.

Re:NVIDIA

[Brian Stretch]

FWIW, 64-bit Fedora doesn't require a kernel recompile to use the nVidia closed-source drivers, but you do need the driver patch from minion.de. You'll also need to add "alias char-major-195 nvidia" to /etc/modprobe.conf, or modprobe nvidia manually. Don't forget to make the usual changes to /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Anyhow, I've been running 64-bit UT2004 under FC2 Test 3 for a while now and it works great, after getting the beta version mentioned here (hopefully there will be an official UT2004 upgrade soon?).

It's great to see x86_64 Linux on equal footing with 32-bit x86 Linux. If you've been waiting for an excuse to switch over to AMD64, now's the time.

Re:NVIDIA

[hawkeyeMI]

Indeed, it would be nice to have open-source drivers. I hate having to recompile the kernel interface every time.

As you noted my point was simply to warn people before they switched blindly that their 3D acceleration might not work for a little while.

So what do you normally use?

[TheHonestTruth]

I'm going to be getting a Shuttle SN41G2V2 in about a month to replace a very loud web server and was thinking of putting Linux on it. I was thinking of Fedora or Gentoo, or maybe even SuSE, but if Fedora craps out....

Seriously, I haven't run Linux in a while so I have no preference as far as distros go. I'd be interested to know how this turns out and what you normally install on the Shuttle. Thanks.

-truth

Re:So what do you normally use?

[fr8_liner]

I settled on Mandrake 10 Community Edition. This is mostly because I have been using Mandrake distros since Mandrake 8.0 on various hardware, including some laptops. I have a Shuttle SK41G. All I had to do was change the sound driver to via82cxxx_audio and I had to play around with permissions to get K3B to burn DVDs and CDs correctly. The other installs required more tweaking.

Re:So what do you normally use?

[TheHonestTruth]

Thanks for the tip. I will probably just be using this for web and storage, so I may not even need to mess with the sound driver. But if I do, at least I have a lead. Thanks!

-truth

Re:So what do you normally use?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're really wanting to check up on the state of hardware support, or what problems you may run into installing Linux on a Shuttle case, I think the Gentoo Forums (forums.gentoo.org) would be a good read.

Doing a search on "Shuttle" in the forums brings up various replies relating to issues with various models. So you'll know just from reading which drivers to look for, which 'gotchas' to avoid etc.

I'm planning on getting a Shuttle case at some point, and I will be installing Gentoo on it.

Re:So what do you normally use?

[Rakarra]

I'm going to be getting a Shuttle SN41G2V2 in about a month to replace a very loud web server...

Careful, despite what Shuttle and a couple reviews might claim, the Shuttle SN41G2* series of boxes are NOT quiet machines. They're especially annoying under load because the fans rev up, then they spin down.. then up as the temperature goes up again. The nForce chipset requires a fan as well, which adds to the noise level (a small amount). I went for the SN41G (Via chipset) instead and it was quieter. Not quiet, just quieter.

Re:So what do you normally use?

[TheHonestTruth]

Careful, despite what Shuttle and a couple reviews might claim, the Shuttle SN41G2* series of boxes are NOT quiet machines.

Hmmmm.... really? That's honestly exactly why I was getting one. I'm not too concerned about load since it will mainly be a webserver for a site no one goes to :-) and a file server for some projects I want to work on in my spare time. I was planning on swapping out the fan for a quieter/more airflow one, but other than that I intended to keep it stock. You can check out the discussion I had about it on the ABXZone forums (I chime in around page 2: psxndc). Do you happen to know how loud it is? I was told ~30 dB which is probably acceptable. Thanks for the info.

-truth

Triple wammy out to the masses

[sheeny]

Finally. KDE .3.2, Gnome 2.6 and kernel 2.6 out to the masses! So much easier than using Konstruct, Garnome etc for most new linux users. Can we consider this the debut of these three technolgies to the masses? I like to think so. I can't wait to install it on my machine, my brothers machine, my mothers machine my.... We should all be proud of the Linux, KDE and Gnome community and send our thanks:) Thank you!

Re:Triple wammy out to the masses

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute, last time I looked Mandrake and Suse still existed.

Re:Triple wammy out to the masses

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I remember having to do to get KDE 3.2.2 installed:

emerge kde

Hmm. Not too bad. How about Gnome 2.6?

emerge -u gnome

No, it's not the debut of any of them to the masses. The debut has already happened, Fedora's playing catch-up.

Re:Triple wammy out to the masses

[maaleron]

except for gnome 2.6 (which i don't use anyways) mandrake has had kernel 2.6 (i'm currently using 2.6.3-9 though 2.6.5 is available) and kde 3.2 (currently 3.2.2) since version 10 was released a few weeks ago. i've been using them for well over a month (since they first appeared in cooker)

Re:Triple wammy out to the masses

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using KDE 3.2 on FreeBSD since like 2 or 3 days after it was released...

KDE 3.2 isn't that much to get excited about really anyways.

Re:Triple wammy out to the masses

[brsmith4]

I wish slashdot had a way to grep out gentoo fanboy posts. I'm really getting sick of them. You people think you are "hard-core" because you've compiled your distro from scratch, that you've saved, due to compiler optimizations, maybe 2 or 3 uSecs on execution time, and that your single emerge command simply wipes the floor with all the rest.

This story is about Fedora, not Gentoo. Gentoo seems pretty sweet, if you have a lot of time on your hands and perhaps no girlfriend. For people like me, Fedora is great. They are not playing catch up as you say, because these packages have actually been tested pretty thoroughly, unlike your emerged tar-balls that were instantaneously added to the repositories after the mirrors went live.

I'm not here to rag on your distro, I'm just sick of the elitism that the gentoo users wreak of when they post on slashdot.

FC2 on nvidia hardware

[GeekLiving]

What kind of support does FC2 have for nforce chipsets and geforce video? Should I download the drivers from nvidia's site and burn them onto disk before installing FC2 (as I had to do with RH9).
And a more general question, do any distro's ship with support for nvidia hardware "out-of-box"?

Re:FC2 on nvidia hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that SuSE 8.2 came with nVidia drivers that you had to install via YaST during the initial install. I haven't used any other version of SuSE since then.

I have an ATI, so I couldn't tell you how good they work. I know, pretty limited info, but I hope that'll help.

Re:FC2 on nvidia hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an Nvidia Ti4200 that I run with FC2-T3. I suspect like the 2.6 kernel, there is non-accelerated 2d native support for nvidia cards. For accelerated 3D, I get the Nvidia binaries and install over the native drivers. Linux distros. are not allowed to ship with bundled Nvidia drivers, and Nvidia is unwilling to provide programming info. to make native accelerated 3D work.

Re:FC2 on nvidia hardware

[baywulf]

FC2 will work with nforce chipsets and geforce video cards with possible exception of the nforce ethernet (but I use a separate ethernet card anyway.) For maximum 3d performance in games you need to use the nvidia drivers for the video card. If games are not your concern then you don't have to install any proprietary stuff.

Re:FC2 on nvidia hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, if you had read the NVIDIA software license, you'd know that distributors (or any individuals, if so inclined) are certainly free to ship the binary NVIDIA drivers, and some have been doing so for a long time; don't assume it's not possible just because RedHat/SuSE decided against it.

how does it compare to mandrake?

[RelliK]

A long time ago I switched from redhat to mandrake. I wonder if it's time to switch back.

Re:how does it compare to mandrake?

[Pros_n_Cons]

Weather its better than Mandrake now or not is up to you but the fact is, if you ask the question, it IS time to try it.
Fedora is the best OS I've used but thats only what I think, Though more, and more are starting to agree with me.

Re:how does it compare to mandrake?

[Pharmboy]

A long time ago I switched from redhat to mandrake. I wonder if it's time to switch back.

I have been a RH customer for a long time, paying for RHN and all, and have found they change their support structure entirely too often. I have RH9 and Fedora 1 on a couple boxes now only because of necessity. As always, RH is a decent "generic" version, with mixed support.

I just downloaded SuSe 9.1 Live, and liked it enough to order a "hand rolled" version. If I like that, I will order their pro version on CD. As a desktop, it appears to blow away the RH versions, IMHO. It is more responsive, more intuitive and better looking. And this is from a Live CD distro. I am looking hard at SuSe to replace everything RH I have now. We will see if I like it well enough in a few weeks.

Since IBM loaned Novell the money to buy SUSE in the first place, I am betting it will end up being the best supported version for the corporate desktop in a year or two, which it lags RH on now. You can download the live CD free at suse.com and try it out. Its different, but as a RH (and formally Mandrake) user, it was nice to fire it up and have everything respond much faster.

Re:how does it compare to mandrake?

[hansjorn]

Once upon a time I started out with SuSE v6, 7 and 8, and I was quite happy with it, but then they sold out to Novell (which i don't trust).
At the same time I tried RH8 and 9 and eventually Fedora Core 1, which impressed me quite a lot, but .. alas, I couldn't run on our new Dell Dimension 8300 PC's with SATA-disk, ATI Radeon cards and so on.
So - a friend of mine pointed out, that Mandrake 9.2 could do the trick - running the above mentioned machines - and at the same time, I was impressed with Mandrake's easy way of installing.
I was fooled by the community version of Mandrake 10, which - IMHO - contains a lot of errors and cannot run scanners, digital cameras and a lot of other things, that v9.2 could.
So .. I'll give Fedora Core 2 another chance, since the first version was fine, but not up to the new cards and disks ..
Right now I'm waiting for Bittorrent to give med access to the new wonder-distribution!

Re:how does it compare to mandrake?

[Fred_A]

The community version of the Mandrake distribution is meant for testing, not for general use. It's at best a polished beta.

If you want something that performs properly, use the final version of Mandrake 10, it has been out for a while now.

x86_64?

[Madthio]

I noticed that previous versions of Fedora Core were available for the x86_64 architecture, but all the links that I have seen are for i386. Anyone have a torrent for the x86_64 arch, or an estimated release date? Then the only thing I'll be waiting for are the ATI x86_64 drivers.

Re:x86_64?

[lauterm]

I haven't seen any official word yet, but FC2 test 3 came out in both i386 and x86_64 at the same time. So hopefully Tuesday, the release date, we will have a torrent for Athlon64 as well. Apparently the warez peeps only use 32 bit.

Available on CD

[Anonymous Coward]

budgetlinuxcds.com have it on CD for those who don't want to download 2.5G Direct link

The question

[daserver]

What is the release codename? Fedora Core 1 was called yarrow.

Re:The question

[Anonymous Coward]

This one is called "Tettnang" I believe.

Re:The question

[weinberg]

tettnang

Is this for real ???

[CedricVonck]

When I goto Fedora I see not a single link to download Fedora Core 2. On the mirrors I get 550 permission denied or could change directory?? Is this story genuine? Regards

Re:Is this for real ???

[Pantheraleo2k3]

FC2 has not yet been released to the mirrors. This story is announcing that the .torrent is available for BitTorrent users. Otherwise, you have to wait until (IIRC) Tuesday to download it.

Re:Is this for real ???

[LNX Flocki]

Well the directory is already there. It's not accessible yet though.

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux /core/

Bittorrent

[kjetiln]

One of the reasons that Bittorrent doesn't go faster is that there is to few upload-slots pr default on the bt-clients.

Please add the option --max_uploads 20 if you have good bandwidth, and you help all others get their cd's, and eventualy, you get better access in downloading because everybody is downloading from you, other people starts to get free upload slots.

Thanks, Fedora developers!

[danpbrowning]

I just want to express my gratitude to the Fedora developers and community for releasing a well-packaged operating system. I upgraded from Fedora Core 2 - Test 3 to the official release via yum, and it has been working great. Very stable, fast, and featureful.

Thanks again!

Unofficial torrent!

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that this is a unofficial torrent, Core 2 will not be released to the public before tuesday.

Read this about unofficial torrents:
http://livna.org/~anvil/fc2-torrents.tx t

For the beta testers (FC2 Test3)

[Kevin Burtch]

You don't have to download everything if you're running FC2 Test3, simply update using yum.

yum -y update

This will bring everything up to the full FC2 release. I did this days ago (it's been out via yum repositories that long).

$ cat /etc/fedora-release
Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang)

Re:For the beta testers (FC2 Test3)

[iamsure]

Which yum server are you accessing?

freshrpms.net doesnt have it yet..

Re:For the beta testers (FC2 Test3)

[Kevin Burtch]

I used yum as installed, unmodified, with the original RedHat/Fedora config:

[development]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - Development Tree
baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pu b/fedo ra/linux/core/development/$basearch/

This, when you run 'yum -y update', replaces this config with:

[base]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Base
baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pu b/fedo ra/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/

[updates-released]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Released Updates
baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com /pub/fedo ra/linux/core/updates/$releasever/$basearch/

Re:For the beta testers (FC2 Test3)

[syusuf]

I did this last weekend as well, and discovered that it broke yum and up2date! Since the /core/2/ directory was still not available on the servers or mirrors. I got round this temporarily by hardwiring my yum configuration to use the 1.92 directory (to allow me to install a couple of packages directly over the net).

Re:For the beta testers (FC2 Test3)

[Kevin Burtch]

That was part of the change... it didn't actually break yum, it merely reconfigured it to use the release directory rather than the test directory.

Once they change the permissions on the core/2 directories, yum will work again.

torrent that works ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have a torrent that works ? The one in the article just sits there at "connecting to peers".

I'm not behind a firewall or anything, and bt otherwise works fine on this machine.

Did we slashdot a bittorrent site ?

Re:torrent that works ?

[Anonymous Coward]

After about 5 minutes it started downloading at a trickle, less than 1kb. I'll let it run and see what happens.

Troll, but I'll take the bait...Knoppix.

[Anonymous Coward]

"And heaven help you if you didn't print off the install manual - better hope those Fedora disks are still lying around for you to get your internet connection back after attempt #1."

That's why I keep a copy of Knoppix lying around.

Plus I dual boot, if I'm really fucked.

Apparently not recommended on fedora-list

[Ars-Fartsica]

Quoted from fedora-list:

For FC1 -> FC2 upgrading is NOT recommended using apt, yum or any other depsolver. Anaconda has a fair bit of magic to fix things for you. Most things are manually solvable but if you're using LVM "it has a high chance of blowing up spectacularly" according to the anaconda developers - don't bother unless you like blowing up systems :)

In any case upgrading with anaconda is the recommended way.

So it looks like they recommend getting the install disks and upgrading through the installer.

Please read before using above torrent

[YellowBook]

Please read the following before using an unofficial torrent to download FC2. Apparently, the official release of FC2 is not until Tuesday, and what you are downloading may or may not be the real FC2 release (it may be a Rawhide snapshot, or a trojaned distribution, for example). You can verify the signature on the MD5SUM file to check it, of course, but you'd have to waste your time and bandwidth downloading it first.

Re:Please read before using above torrent

[tuffy]

The release schedule says FC2 should've been on its way to the mirrors two days ago. It's reasonable to assume this is an early leak prior to the official announcement two days from now. But one should always verify the GPG key and MD5SUMs just in case prior to any installation - even after the official announcement.

So the real question is........

[rsax]

Has anyone actually verified that these ISOs are legit by using the Fedora GPG key?

Re:So the real question is........

[FrostedWheat]

I can't speak for the ISO's, but the MD5SUM is identical to the one that's been appearing on the mirrors in the last few days. GPG signature checks out aswell.

Re:So the real question is........

[brejc8]

The MD5SUM file checks out against the PGP key and so do the ISOs against the MD5 sums. But dont take my word for it and test it yourself
The PGP key used is 4F2A6FD2

Re:So the real question is........

[jjohnson]

The md5sums came out correct for me, and gpg verifies that it has a good signature from "Fedora Project ".

Re:So the real question is........

[Anonymous Coward]

So what's the deal with the "boot.iso"? It is in the bittorrent but not listed in the MD5SUM.

I've got the following seven files in the torrent:
FC2-i386-disc1.iso (667529216)
FC2-i386-disc2.iso (665802752)
FC2-i386-disc3.iso (669016064)
FC2-i386-disc4.iso (203737088)
FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso (79532032)
MD5SUM (791)
boot.iso (4151296)

-cmh

Tracker Down..

[Anonymous Coward]

The tracker is down. Slashdotted BitTorrent?

As I was submitting, it came up.

Will it have proper soundcard support?

[gotw]

I know it might be an uncommon configuration, but the thing that really put me off fedora/redhat was that it, up to FC1 at least didn't have support for multiple sound cards. It simply detected one fairly arbitrarily and told you that was what sound card you have. I found redhat a little hard to hack so I went back to debian and was happy. Windows allows me to use multiple sound cards and prioritise them ... why can't RH/fedora?

ATI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any news on a new ATI driver? I'm guessing not.

Re:Too bad BitTorrent doesn't run on Fedora Core 1

[phoebus1553]

What kind of crack are you smoking? Seriously? I'm downloading it right now with the bittorrent rpm available on pbone which was easily found on the first page of a google search for "bittorrent fedora rpm"

Damn. Not Working For Me

[natas802]

I got the torrent for the cds and its been sitting here for 15 minutes not doing a thing. What are you guys downloading at currently?

Re:Damn. Not Working For Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Be patient... it took like half-an-hour on mine to start.

Re:Damn. Not Working For Me

[natas802]

it started and it got up to 28k down for about 5 minutes now its 1k down and 18 up... still at 0%. awesome.

Re:Damn. Not Working For Me

[chadm1967]

That's the torrent for ya! What the hell does everyone see in this worthless way of downloading files?

Re:Damn. Not Working For Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Go straight to hell and die, troll. The tracker died 'cause it was someone's DSL link running Azureus.

You pick custom install

[zogger]

Just in the installation program, check custom install, then go check off what you want. You can pare it down a lot that way. It's not as detailed as I would like it to be, but you can carve off big huge chunks if you want to on initial install.

You can also just keep what you have, wait for the downloads to settle down in a coupla weeks, then do just apt-get or yum upgrades in pieces as well. Well, or so I hear. I've never done it, but they claim you can. I'm on dialup, so I just send off get the disks, a lot easier that way.

But ya,I know what you mean. In another discussion I was turned onto Vector Linux, basically shrunken redhat, go check it out.

Fedora: By Adults, For Adults?

[reallocate]

I've been running a Test3 that was updated just after their 7 May freeze. Pretty slick.

If you're after a noisy, flashy Linux with umpteen ways to play music and videos, Fedora is not for you.

I you're after a professional piece of work that seems to have been built by adults for adults, look at Fedora.

Worked for me

[cybrthng]

I just edited the /etc/yum.conf and added the lines to the 1.92 release (rc3) and ran the yum update / upgrade and it worked fine.

I don't run LVM, however i was running the raid and tons of other features.

Machines are much more stable with rc3, so i'm anxious to plug the final in. Kernel 2.6 is much more reliable on HT & Xeons for me running java stuff in this release

Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[shaitand]

I've never gotten decent speeds on bittorrent, at best I've gotten medicore speeds.

This time I'm not even getting medicore speeds, once in a great while I get 1k/s. Most of the time I'm getting nothing.

My client shows connection to 20 peers and 0 seeds, and I do have the ports forwarded.

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[iamsure]

Same here. I posted earlier this morning similar effects, and it hasnt changed in several hours.

I see (thanks to bittornado) that there are people downloading at 300k+.. but I have ports forwarded, have been connected for some time now, have 15 peers, and yet 0 seeds.

My download rate has varied from 0-12k.

So far, Bittorrent blows in my book.

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[Oloryn]

I've never gotten decent speeds on bittorrent, at best I've gotten medicore speeds.

This time I'm not even getting medicore speeds, once in a great while I get 1k/s. Most of the time I'm getting nothing.

I'm currently getting about 140KB/s, which on my link means I'm pretty well saturating the downlink.

If you're on an ADSL link, I've found it helps to limit upload rate (in my case, to 15KB/s). Otherwise, the uploads saturate the uplink and actually slow ACKs for the download. I don't know if that's your problem, but it definitely helped here.

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[Gumpy]

I've let it run for about 2 hours now with no luck - still the same problem. Is the tracker a victim of /.?

Problem connecting to tracker - timeout exceeded

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[shaitand]

Thanks for the tip, I have it limited though.

When I look at the other peers I see a long list of nobody getting crap for speed and then 3 or 4 who are getting anywhere from 100k to 500+k.

I have a theory as to why bittorrent sucks. Most people with fast download have slow upload. So the download links greatly outweight the upload the links.

12 people with 512 down and 256 up cannot all serve eachother at max speed, it just doesn't add up, even if the host server is 512 up it still doesn't add up. And it especially doesn't add up if they are limiting their upload rate.

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[vetman]

FYI I have been running the DVD image on a T1 1.5/1.5 for about 4 hours.

400Mb Downloaded
980Mb Uploaded
36 hours remaining....

Re:Either bittorrent sucks or I need some advice.

[Anonymous Coward]

ShitTorrent definitely blows.

It's such crap.

Any group that think this is a good way to distribute official iso releases is a fucking peice of crap.

DVD torrent has no MD5SUM

[Sits]

Taking a look at the torrent file seems to suggest that the DVD version is just an ISO and nothing else. Be careful folks - without *signed* MD5SUMs you can't be sure of what you've downloaded.

Re:Too bad BitTorrent doesn't run on Fedora Core 1

[Oloryn]

The upgrade path would have been a bit easier if it was possible to run BitTorrent on Fedora Core 1. But you can't.

So, the bittorrent rpm that's installed on my FC1 system is just a figment of my imagination? The very bittorrent install that's currently downloading FC2? Drat!

Fedora Extras

[mattdm]

Bittorrent isn't part of Fedora Core, but *is* in Fedora Extras (a.k.a. fedora.us). This hasn't been completely integrated into the main Fedora project yet, but for now you can find it at http://www.fedora.us/.

Can it be installed from one CD only?

[cbraga]

Or do I have to download 4 CDs of obscure programs I'll never use just to get a funcioning system with Gnome/KDE?

I downloaded test3's CD1 and even the minimal (400 MB) installation required more than one cd.

If this thing turns out to just be test3...

[shaitand]

I sure hope this isn't someone's 2gb release of test3 and is the real deal.

It would be really depressing to find I'm downloading at a rate that MIGHT get me this thing before tuesday just to find out I could have downloaded at full speed and had it in two hours come Tues.

We *need* to verify the public key

[TheMadPenguin]

The first person here to verify the integrity of the Torrents needs to post the results here for the rest of us. If this is FC2T3, then there is no reason everyone should keep distributing it the way we are...

rsync server

[apmlinux]

Can you provide also a rsync server ? I have already downloaded all the packages so I just have to transfer a couple of Mbyte to complete the cd-images.

This is a hoax

[dybdahl]

The MD5SUM file posted here in this forum has a valid Fedora Project GnuPG signature, if you remove the excess spaces. And I've now downloaded the first CD via bittorrent, and the MD5 sum doesn't match... I can only conclude, that this is not the final Fedora Core 2, but a hoax.

Re:This is a hoax

[dybdahl]

Please disregard my previous post - obviously I don't know too well how bittorent works - it still modifies the MD5 sum of the first CD, so I guess it's not completely downloaded, yet.

Re:This is a hoax

[tuffy]

The MD5SUM file posted here in this forum has a valid Fedora Project GnuPG signature, if you remove the excess spaces. And I've now downloaded the first CD via bittorrent, and the MD5 sum doesn't match... I can only conclude, that this is not the final Fedora Core 2, but a hoax.

You can't check the md5sums of the ISOs until the entire bittorrent download is complete. Bittorrent makes no guarantee that all of ISO 1 is finished downloading before you start getting ISO 2. It's common for bittorrent to go back and patch "holes" in files near the end of the download - and any gap in the file will mess up your md5sum check.

Re:This is a hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

Gah! I stopped my download and deleted the files!

When did Slashdot become an unreliable source of information? ;)

MD5SUMS...

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW, I got the DVD and the MD5SUM file from a mirror that messed up and left it open for a small window. ;-)

Here's the MD5SUM file:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

c366d585853768283dac6cdcefcd3a2d FC2-i386-disc1.iso
fc3c926442cc85a469268651bd04c1 86 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
5ad870e696953f4bbd0a9193687389 0e FC2-i386-disc3.iso
c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d748 67 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f 98 FC2-i386-DVD.iso
22f4bfca5baefe89f0e04166e738639f FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso
0c0268f26ed08d24880119e1b44 d45e8 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso
3d17a40489e8dcd3761f166f f264c712 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso
4e798934b399eb78e9e67dec 23d946bb FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso
5d84eb0aecea8bce8e4857d3 e46136c3 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAo8uQtEJp0E8qb9IRAjgnAJ92Rl2f6K/1Z1DCHB6q in au88WYXgCggF4P
1xFVxG7HVYVGJenIv1oSdrQ=
=yWK+
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

And the bittorrent links are working just fine for me now. I'll leave it going for at least the next 24 hours. :-)

BS

[Anonymous Coward]

how can you upgrade to something that hasn't been released yet (remember, release date is in two days -- the 18th)?

Re:No way in HELL...

[Anonymous Coward]

uh, you can do a minimal install with fedora and use apt to add packages later.

fucking debian wankers.

CTorrent is a great cmd line client

[ryandlugosz]

I've been fond of ctorrent lately as a BT client. It's command line only which is useful when you just want to kick off an AT job from the office.

MAndy is still king!!

[joshsnow]

I wonder if it's time to switch back.

No, it isn't.

WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted

[Anonymous Coward]

Just finished downloading the iso images from the bittorrent link. Public key verification doesn't look good.

gpg --verify ./MD5SUM
gpg: Signature made Thu 13 May 2004 01:25:04 PM MDT using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: Good signature from "Fedora Project "
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Primary key fingerprint: CAB4 4B99 6F27 744E 8612 7CDF B442 69D0 4F2A 6FD2


Perhaps someone more familiar with pgp than I can comment on this. I will not use these images until I am certain of their authenticity.

Here's the MD5SUM file:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

c366d585853768283dac6cdcefcd3a2d FC2-i386-disc1.iso
fc3c926442cc85a469268651bd04c1 86 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
5ad870e696953f4bbd0a9193687389 0e FC2-i386-disc3.iso
c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d748 67 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f 98 FC2-i386-DVD.iso
22f4bfca5baefe89f0e04166e738639f FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso
0c0268f26ed08d24880119e1b44 d45e8 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso
3d17a40489e8dcd3761f166f f264c712 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso
4e798934b399eb78e9e67dec 23d946bb FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso
5d84eb0aecea8bce8e4857d3 e46136c3 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAo8uQtEJp0E8qb9IRAjgnAJ92Rl2 f6K/1Z1DCHB6qinau88WYXgCggF4P
1xFVxG7HVYVGJenIv1o SdrQ=
=yWK+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

But no Gnome-2.6.1 ....

[Anonymous Coward]

this is was needed ... they could have waited a week and went with gnome-2.6.1

Test3-FC2 via rsync.

[juni8]

Any idea how much should be downloaded if I update Test3 images via rsync? Could I use old images with BT?

WARNING

[Anonymous Coward]

The files at the torrent linked to in the story are trojaned! DO NOT INSTALL THEM!

Re:WARNING

[oKilgorEo]

if you could back that up with some umm... you know, information or evidence that would be super handy.

Re:WARNING

[chaffed]

Can anyone varify this. With 700+ clients in teh torrent it would be a very bad if this is comprimised.

Re:WARNING

[Oloryn]

Can anyone varify this. With 700+ clients in teh torrent it would be a very bad if this is comprimised

Well, if it is, they've managed to get hold of or cracked Fedora's signing key, as the MD5SUM does validate to that key.

Re:No way in HELL...

[Anonymous Coward]

They do that on purpose in hopes that it will piss you off enough so you just buy the CDs.

For me it just pisses me off enough that I switch distros...guess it backfired on them.

Re:WARNING: This key is not certified with a trust

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh well that's what you fools get for downloading your operating systems off the latest trendy p2p crapnetwork.

check

[oKilgorEo]

not sure if i'm missing something here but it looks to check out

SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.5
Implemented using SlavaSoft QuickHash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
Copyright (C) SlavaSoft Inc. 1999-2003. All rights reserved.

OK MD5 FC2-i386-disc1.iso
OK MD5 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
OK MD5 FC2-i386-disc3.iso
OK MD5 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
OK MD5 FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso

Are you a corporate shill?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see:

There are two types of users: a) adults, and b) immature users.

Immature users want:
- noisy interfaces
- flashy interfaces
- multiple means of playing music and videos

Adult users - professional users - are those who will appreciate the Redhat: Fedora Core product.

Users who do not appreciate the Redhat Fedora Core product are immature users who lack the professional sensibilities to appreciate an "adult" product.

I beg to differ. Two can play at this game. The Redhat: Fedora Core product is for novice users, users who value ease of use over and in place of technical merit, and users who themselves lack the technical prowess to develop more effectivve and efficient computing practices but still wish to identify themselves with an elitist technical community. These users therefore attempt to tranfer their success in a corporate environment and their personal means or wealth to leverage or nobility-making power in the legitimate technical community.

This is why they are rightly the target of ridicule in the legitimate FOSS technocrat community.

The Redhat: Fedora Core product is for users who:

Would prefer to use the tools prescribed for them by others or by default in their corporate environment.

Value a shiny, flashy system initialization screen where essential details are hidden by a pretty picture.

I am an adult. I work in the IT "industry". But I, like many others, do not define myself or identify myself with that corporate pseudo-self.

It isn't something to be proud of. It is something to be ashamed of. Only a little while longer.

Re:Are you a corporate shill?

[reallocate]

Of course not, silly boy.

>> ...users who value ease of use over and in place of technical merit, and users who themselves lack the technical prowess to develop more effectivve and efficient computing practices but still wish to identify themselves with an elitist technical community.

First of all, no conflict exists between ease of use and technical merit. Deleting a file using "rm" or with a mouse get you to the same place and do the same thing.

Second, the technical community, if there is one, is no more elite than the marketing community, or the realtor community, or the barber community. The elitism in the tech community is bogus, and primarily finds expression in the arrogance many of its members express toward anyone else. It's rather like someone prancing around arguing that people who drive cars with autotmatic transmissions are trying to "leverage" a little glory from the "elite auto mechanic community".

>>...they are rightly the target of ridicule in the legitimate FOSS technocrat community

For using the same damn software that's in every other bleeding Linux distribution? Fedora drops a couple mp3 players, uses a Gnome theme that doesn't glow in the dark, and gets beat up for it. By some nonexistent "legitimate FOSS technocrat community".

>> The Redhat: Fedora Core product is for users who:
# Would prefer to use the tools prescribed for them by others or by default in their corporate environment.

Well, like I said, it's the same damn software. And, if your boss owns the hardware, your boss gets to "prescribe" the software that's on it.

# Value a shiny, flashy system initialization screen where essential details are hidden by a pretty picture.

It's not shiny or flashy. It's rather dark and blue and it just sits there and does nothing. ANd those intitialization details are not essential to a user, who won't understand them anyway. They get paid to work, not understand Linux messages.

Re:Are you a corporate shill?

[Anonymous Coward]

# Value a shiny, flashy system initialization screen where essential details are hidden by a pretty picture.

I wonder what people say about suse's graphical boot... It hides all the details too....
[sarcastic] so , suse is evil too... they're hiding the important messages!!! [/sarcastic]
Come on! Most users only care for these messages when they have problems... I usually disable rhgb (the graphical boot on Fedora) because I dont want to waste time loading it.... I never care for the messages (because if the system fails , I'll see sooner or later during boot or with one of the root's e-mails in my inbox..)

Blazzing

[houseofmore]

So sitting on the back of our office T1 and getting 79 bytes a second.

Est finish time: 2443:08:30.

Woowoo!

Re:WARNING: This key is not certified with a trust

[Anonymous Coward]

> Perhaps someone more familiar with pgp than I can comment on this.

So such true words. :-) Don't comment on something you don't understand!

CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[cpu_fusion]

Some users of FC2-test3 discovered that, unlike FC1, it will render your coexisting Windows XP partitions unbootable. This may possibly be limited to certain hardware configurations, but it's hard to say with no official word from the Fedora team on a fix for this, despite it having been in bugzilla since at least the test 2 release.

In soviet russia, Linux disables your Windows installation.

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[QCompson]

It happened to me... If you are trusting and toss Grub into the MBR, there seems to be no way to solve the situation (please, someone correct me); from what I have read, you also can't reinstall XP on that drive until you overwrite the MBR with 0's. I hope this situation has been remedied with the final release.

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[Norny]

I had no such trouble for that test release dual booting my WinXP machine.

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[desau]

Can you post some details about your install? (did you have FC1 prior, dual booting? Did you upgrade? Fresh install?)

I've been a long time user of RedHat and FC, but this bug is too nasty -- I don't think I'm going to upgrade my FC1 boxes until this bug is fixed.

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean the problem is just that it won't let you boot to Windows using GRUS, or that it actually damages the windows partition in some way?

If I understand you correctly:

If you are trusting and toss Grub into the MBR, there seems to be no way to solve the situation (please, someone correct me); from what I have read, you also can't reinstall XP on that drive until you overwrite the MBR with 0's.

Then this is easily solved. Grab a windows boot disk, and run:

fdisk /mbr

and it'll restore the Windows MBR, replacing GRUB.

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[HunterWare]

I hate to post a "me too", but... me too. I was bitten on a 2 year old Award Bios 2.2GHz P4 dual boot machine. After installing FC2T3 I was unable to get into my windows partition. I tried to FixMBR, reformat, and repartition. In order to get windows back on my drive without monkeying with the bios I had to nuke the drive (dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda). At this point the drive would work properly again and I did a reinstall (windows, then FC test-3). It happened again on this clean install. This time I only zero'd the boot sector and partition table (which is what get's hosed) and reinstalled with FC1 (no problems). The bug #'s on fedora bugzilla are 115980 and 120128.

Despite multiple reports they proceed to release the product with the bug resolved....

Re:CAREFUL IF YOU DUAL-BOOT FC2 and XP!

[mikyt]

> there seems to be no way to solve the situation I had the same problem once (and only once, this is quite strange) with FC1, but I succeeded in solving the problem. I had a Fat32 partition completely messed up. Windows couldn't see it anymore. I booted the system with Knoppix (I think it was 3.2) and used fsck. In a few minutes, without any unusual setting I got my partiton back! I hope it works for you too....

How BT Works(was Re:where to get bit-torrent RPM?)

[batkiwi]

BT can use push or pull to both download and upload files. The announce method contacts all clients you're connected to with what you have.

So say you're behind a firewall.
-You ask the tracker for peers, and see me.
-You connect to me and ask me what I have.
-I say "these bits," you ask for some and start sending.
-I ask you (on that same socket) "hey, what do you have?"
-You tell me, I try to connect to you, and fail. I tell you I failed, and say "hey, you connect to ME and send me these bits"
-you do so, and you're uploading!

The problem with firewalls is (obviously) two people with unholed firewalls in place cannot communicate. BT could eventually try some SIP style tricks to get around it, but for now at least one of you has to have ports open.

How about VirtualPC?

[TheRaven64]

Fedora Core 1 runs fine under VirtualPC 6. The Core 2 tests have all installed fine and then refused to boot, crashing straight after the booting kernel message. Posts to the test list have not met with any helpful replies. Does anyone know if the final release of Core 2 works in VirtualPC?

Re:How about VirtualPC?

[imidazole2]

Is there a native PPC port of Fedora?

Re:WARNING: This key is not certified with a trust

[Oloryn]

Just finished downloading the iso images from the bittorrent link. Public key verification doesn't look good.

gpg --verify ./MD5SUM
gpg: Signature made Thu 13 May 2004 01:25:04 PM MDT using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: Good signature from "Fedora Project "

This indicates that the MD5SUM has been verified correctly with the indicated key

gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.

This indicates that gpg can't find a chain of signatures from either your key or from a key marked as 'trusted' in the trust database to this particular key. If you've never signed anyone else's key, or you're never maintained the trust database in gpg, you can pretty well expect to get this message on any file you verify. It's pretty well meaningless unless you've taken steps to use the 'web of trust' features in pgp/gpg. Unless you're really paranoid, I wouldn't worry about the validity of the signature

Verified

[xheliox]

[root@mrsparkle FC2-i386-isos]# gpg --verify MD5SUM
gpg: Signature made Thu 13 May 2004 03:25:04 PM EDT using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: Good signature from "Fedora Project "

[root@mrsparkle FC2-i386-isos]# md5sum -c MD5SUM
FC2-i386-disc1.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc2.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc3.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc4.iso: OK
FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso: OK

The only thing I can't verify is the boot.iso. No MD5SUM was provided. This .torrent appears to be legit.

Arg...no love.

[GnuPooh]

Well, my bit-torrent is sitting here reading 0.0 for the last 20 mins. SuprNova show people are d/ling and I assume it's the quota that's holding me up, but I wonder...

Re:Arg...no love.

[jmwmit]

My computer is failing to connect to the tracker also. I am for sure not behind a firewall, and have been trying for about the last 30 mins (since about 6:50 EST).

Any other users out there able to connect to the tracker?

Re:Arg...no love.

[Anonymous Coward]

Grab the new torrent at http://kuix.de/fedora

A few things first...

[Phil John]

...are you behind a firewall or router? Are you natted? All these things can affect dl speed. If you are natted make sure that you forward the ports. You wouldn't believe the number of people who diss Bittorrent because they get crap speeds. When probed slightly deeper 9 times out of 10 they are using some sort of router (linksys et al) which is between them and the internet - at which point I run them through Networking 101 and explain why, how to fix it and lo and behold they come back and say "wow...now I see what you mean".

Of course, it could be because there's 1 seed and 20000 peers, with the 1 seed upping at 1k/s. Sucks? Yup, deal with it and wait until there a more seeds. Normally though after the release of a new torrent the people on fast pipes are able to download and start seeding large files after 10 or so minutes, if not less.

Re:A few things first...

[ErixTr]

I'm behind a router and natted. But everything is configured and ports are forwarded.

I made some tests using different clients and they showed a healty connection. Unfortunately I couldn't, even one time, catch the speed I get from a ftp server.

Bittorent never worked for me.

SELinux

[daserver]

Can't wait to download and test SELinux, which should work out of the box. It's disabled by default, but you should be able to enable it by adding add "selinux" to the install line when installing. More information: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/selinux/

Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!)

[Bobzibub]

I used the torrent mentioned...
The MD5SUM file checked out against the key I found on the Fedora site...
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/security/4 F2A6FD2.t xt

But most of my MD5s didn't match the MD5SUM file.

My md5sums:
FC2-i386-disc1.iso was 6d601e663bb242fa449deb8eecfdc707
FC2-i386-disc2.i so was 824f016217c93b8aa06b59d003882ab0
FC2-i386-disc3.i so was a66b43f876e47658405a8dd6603388bc
FC2-i386-disc4.i so was c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d74867 which is good!

This did not match the MD5SUM text file below:

c366d585853768283dac6cdcefcd3a2d FC2-i386-disc1.iso
fc3c926442cc85a469268651bd04c1 86 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
5ad870e696953f4bbd0a9193687389 0e FC2-i386-disc3.iso
c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d748 67 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f 98 FC2-i386-DVD.iso
22f4bfca5baefe89f0e04166e738639f FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso

Anyone have similar results? Or is it me?
-b

Apt sources

[SockMonster]

If anybody was looking for an update without downloading the entire isos to do it, if you have apt, add this to your sources.list: rpm http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu/linux/fedora.us/fedora fedora/2/i386 os updates rpm-src http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu/linux/fedora.us/fedora fedora/2/i386 os updates rpm http://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/fedora/fedora/ fedora/2/i386 os updates rpm-src http://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/fedora/fedora/ fedora/2/i386 os updates

Re:Apt sources

[iamsure]

Does fedora.us still develop seperately from fedora-redhat?

My impression was that they were still two seperate distro's, despite the PR in the other direction.

Re:Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!)

[Oloryn]

Anyone have similar results? Or is it me?

I think it's you:

nj8j@frodo:/home/newiso/FC2-i386-isos$ md5sum -c MD5SUM
FC2-i386-disc1.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc2.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc3.iso: OK
FC2-i386-disc4.iso: OK
md5sum: FC2-i386-DVD.iso: No such file or directory
FC2-i386-DVD.iso: FAILED open or read
FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso: OK
md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso: No such file or directory
FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso: FAILED open or read
md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso: No such file or directory
FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso: FAILED open or read
md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso: No such file or directory
FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso: FAILED open or read
md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso: No such file or directory
FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso: FAILED open or read
md5sum: WARNING: 5 of 10 listed files could not be read

The failures on the DVD and the SRPM isos, I expect because they aren't included. The 4 install disks and the rescue disk look good.

Re:Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!)

[Erik_Kahl]

Forgive a n00b question. I do not understand all the subtleties of md5sums and how they relate to determining authenticity of source.

My ISO files match the md5sum file included, but does that mean that they are really from fedora? Or does it just mean that the ISOs I have are the ones that were inteneded to be sent over the torrert...ie. no corrupted files?

Shouldn't we be using a resource FROM ferdora against the ISOs to determine they really do come from Fedora?

I'd really hate to install and discover I have a modified version of FCtest3 with a bad habit of spamming every mail server it can contact.

Would someone be kind enough to show me how I can determine that these files do indeed come from fedora? I'll let you download the files from a new and unburdened server with a 100mbit internet connection if you do...

I got FC2 DVD Gigabit connection

[naros]

ftp://acmserver.cs.ucr.edu/fc2 Will have the CD isos soon.

Re:Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!)

[Oloryn]

My ISO files match the md5sum file included, but does that mean that they are really from fedora? Or does it just mean that the ISOs I have are the ones that were inteneded to be sent over the torrert...ie. no corrupted files?

The matching by itself only means the latter - that the files you received aren't corrupted.

What gives some confidence that the files are from Fedora is the fact that the MD5SUM file is digitally signed by Fedora's signing key. Once you've installed the Fedora Project's key into your gpg keyring (run

gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 4F2A6FD2

), you can verify this by running

gpg --verify MD5SUM

Since the MD5 checksums are digitally signed by the Fedora Project, you can be pretty confident those checksums come from the Fedora Project, and since the torrent files match the checksums, you can be pretty confident that these files come from Fedora.

Re:Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!)

[Bobzibub]

I think you're right!
-b

Integrated OpenOffice.org ??

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Does anyone know how well the included OpenOffice.org is integrated with the rest of the desktop? This is the main thing that keeps me coming back to Ximian -- their OOo is extremely well-integrated. Xft2/fontconfig support throughout, tight hooks to CUPS and Ghostscript so you don't have to futz around with the printers separately (once it's defined in the OS, it's defined in OOo, and there's really no excuse to have otherwise).

How does Fedora Core 2 do in this department?

Re:How BT Works(was Re:where to get bit-torrent RP

[jargoone]

So it's basically like passive-mode FTP. Gotcha.

Thanks for the info!

BitTorrent's weakness

[jbayes]

The biggest problem with BitTorrent is the centralized tracker. There are (I assume) enough people downloading this that I should be getting great download speeds, but instead I'm getting:

error(s): [20:46:22] Problem connecting to tracker - timeout exceeded

Re:BitTorrent's weakness

[dbretton]

ditto

Re:BitTorrent's weakness

[A Commentor]

Yep, same message here... What is so strange is during the entire time I've had BT up, my upload speeds have stayed between 8-9 KB/s (I told the client to limit it to 8 KB/s - half my upload pipe), yet my downloads have been 0 KB/s for the majority of the time. I was able to get a few fast bursts upto about 70 and staying around 30 KB/s, but this is so much slooower that FTP where I see 150-180 KB/s from a good server. I've had this going for the last 10 hours and am still only at 20%... On a good FTP server I would have been done in about 6 hrs for 3 CDs.

All I see from the "Pro"-BT people is how great BitTorrent is, and how much better it is than FTP or other options, but I've been disappointed every time I've used it, and performance this time seems even worse than normal (Tracker time-out problems for the last 40 mins... and still No connection).

BitTorrent needs to fix this tracker bottle-neck problem!

Re:BitTorrent's weakness

[jbayes]

It's pretty meaningless to compare BT to FTP if the two methods have been allocated unequal resources. I bet the current BT tracker is running on one machine, and I suspect you're comparing it to RedHat's normal distribution method of a monster FTP site plus 50 or so mirrors.

It wouldn't be that difficult for RedHat to publish multiple .torrent files, each pointing to a different tracker: I suspect that this torrent's popularity caught them unaware. Of course, BT could probably handle this pretty easily by allowing multiple trackers in the .torrent file. If a client couldn't connect with the primary tracker, it could attempt the secondary tracker. Maybe trackers could even communicate with each other, swapping clients every once in a while, so you would only have to have 1 seed for multiple trackers.

New, working torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, to correct some of the absurd rumor and inuendo running around, yes, these files are genuine and they match checksums signed by the fedora@redhat.com GPG key. So if you can't trust that you can't trust the distributor in general....

Now, for all of the snotty people who were poo-pooing BitTorrent because their downloads weren't going a million megs a second, let me explain precisely why:

YOU WEREN'T INVITED

Y'see, the torrent that got posted to Slashdot was never intended for widespread consumption. The tracker was hosted on an individual's home DSL via a java client and simply wasn't expected to handle the load of widespread usage. Once the hordes of gimmie gimmie kiddies showed up it fell right over. Repeatedly. No wonder you couldn't get a decent transfer rate and your connections were timing out. Then, to make matters worse, half of the people who started connecting in the first big wave decided to disconnect and throw their downloads in the trash. Boy, that's going to help a torrent with one seed just a whole bunch. And again, let's remind ourselves: YOU WEREN'T INVITED.

So now there's a new tracker and faster seeds and things are moving along nicely. And now you're invited. I'm sure you won't disappoint us by disconnecting your client the instant your download is done.

http://kuix.de/fedora/

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Re:New, working torrent

[robsteele]

Thanks!

Re:New, working torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay! Cheers.

Re:New, working torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD PARENT UP.

It points to a working torrent, and the original link in the story does not. In fact, will a slashot editor pls update. Tnx.

Re:New, working torrent

[FireFury03]

Excellent!

MOD PARENT UP!

Re:New, working torrent

[ratpack91]

cheers for that although there are only two of us trying to get the dvd with 80% between us. would anyone care to share the dvd iso on this tracker?

You're welcome.

[Anonymous Coward]

Share and Enjoy

Official, or not?

[trawg]

I don't know if I'm suffering from buster browser cache, but the official site (http://fedora.redhat.com/) hasn't been updated with news of this release, nor has the usual official Torrent location (http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/)?

Also, the fact that the torrents are on Suprnova makes me a bit suspicious (not that I'm casting aspersions on the quality of that site - I'd download them to check them out but I don't want the FEDS to see me hitting that site with BitTorrent :)

Why isn't this on fedora.redhat.com

[WhiteDragon]

fedora.redhat.com is still showing test 3. That seems odd to me. Why would some other site have the release version before the project's site? Am I just being paranoid?

Re:Why isn't this on fedora.redhat.com

[juhaz]

fedora.redhat.com is still showing test 3. That seems odd to me. Why would some other site have the release version before the project's site?

Well, the schedule states that:
14 May Release to mirrors (morning)
18 May Release open, announced

So it's been released to mirrors by now, but the official release is not until tomorrow.

The four days are to make sure that every mirror is synchronized so everyone opens up at the same time which will, hopefully, prevent 'em from getting swarmed. This is probably a leak from one of those mirrors.

Am I just being paranoid?

As for being paranoid, that's a healthy attitude to take with everything downloaded from an anonymous torrent. Heck, everything downloaded from the internet for that matter. Checking GPG signatures and MD5SUMS should show if it's a real deal or something else.

Torrent down?

[FireFury03]

Is it me, or is the torrent's tracker down?

Re:Torrent down?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems down to me, http://underscore.no-ip.com:6969 68.209.242.57 can't ping it, or connect to port 6969.

One CD, please : boot.iso - where is it?

[NKJensen]

I'm not in much of a hurry, so I'll go for the boot.iso which creates a CD which can be used for a network install from your favorite mirror.

Does anyone have a Torrent tracker for boot.iso ?

(Yes, I know that the mirrors will be slow. Maybe the installer will have a "torrent" option in the future next to "ftp" and "http"....)

BOOT.iso ?

[fforw]

FC2-i386-disc1.iso: OK FC2-i386-disc2.iso: OK FC2-i386-disc3.iso: OK FC2-i386-disc4.iso: OK md5sum: FC2-i386-DVD.iso: No such file or directory FC2-i386-DVD.iso: FAILED open or read FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso: OK md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso: No such file or directory FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso: FAILED open or read md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso: No such file or directory FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso: FAILED open or read md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso: No such file or directory FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso: FAILED open or read md5sum: FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso: No such file or directory FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso: FAILED open or read md5sum: WARNING: 5 of 10 listed files could not be read

Same result here. The GPG signature seems to be valid, too.

There's only one problem: The MD5SUM file does not contain an MD5 checksum for the boot.iso contained in the torrent.
Am I too paranoid?
Can anyone give any hint towards the authenticity of the boot.iso?

Re:BOOT.iso ?

[Oloryn]

There's only one problem: The MD5SUM file does not contain an MD5 checksum for the boot.iso contained in the torrent.

Am I too paranoid?

Can anyone give any hint towards the authenticity of the boot.iso?

I think that .iso is actually contained inside the Disk 1 .iso, so I just tossed it out.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

With the bittorrent link given at the head of this article, I couldn't connection at all, even after waiting for a good 15 minutes. With the parent's bittorrent link of http://kuix.de/fedora/ I was soon getting 500 KB/s (yes, bytes, not bits; and yes, I'm uploading at about the same rate as well). Ooh, update--750 KB/s down, and 700 KB/s up.

Thanks!

BT: Timeout on Tracker

[fire-eyes]

Getting timeouts now to the tracker, after almost fully downloading, and uploading almost 4GB... Damn it!

Anyone know what happened?

FAST MIRROR of bittorrent cd iso images

[Anonymous Coward]

ftp://ftp.gaminguk.net/Mirrors/fedora_FC2_bittorre nt_cd_iso/

Re:FAST MIRROR of bittorrent cd iso images

[Anonymous Coward]

Very fast, serveral hundred KB per sec. Thanks.

Post-install Yum problem

[law1979]

Hi. i ve just made a clean FC2 install. when i do a yum update, i get error 403 (forbidden). the path to the repository seems ok . moreover the RHipdate agent indicates no updates available (what seems normal to me) anyone with that behaviour ?

Re:Post-install Yum problem

[praksys]

FC2 has not been released officially. Wait a day.

Re:Post-install Yum problem

[Anonymous Coward]

hehe you probably need to update this "beta" from RedHat, vmware keyboard etc don`t work LOL
this ain`t slack or deb I can say that

PPC

[xose]

There are people working on it(PPC), and also on SPARC. Near future.

Today 'only' runs on x86 and x86-64

Re:Bad MD5Sums here... (awe suck!) -- false!!

[Erik_Kahl]

Looks good to me.

# gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 4f2a6fd2
gpg: keyring `/root/.gnupg/secring.gpg' created
gpg: keyring `/root/.gnupg/pubring.gpg' created
gpg: /root/.gnupg/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created
gpg: key 4F2A6FD2: public key "Fedora Project " imported
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg: imported: 1

# gpg --verify MD5SUM
gpg: Signature made Thu 13 May 2004 02:25:04 PM CDT using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: Good signature from "Fedora Project "
gpg: checking the trustdb
gpg: no ultimately trusted keys found
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Primary key fingerprint: CAB4 4B99 6F27 744E 8612 7CDF B442 69D0 4F2A 6FD2

Thanks for the great directions man. So, Oloryn, want access to the server before it gets crowded?

Yes there is a PPC version but it's still beta

[Sits]

And quite buggy. Not quite sure what that's got to do with Virtual PC though.

Re:Yes there is a PPC version but it's still beta

[imidazole2]

Two seperate questions. #1 being if there was a native PPC. #2 being if FC2 works in VirtualPC, caus FC1 has issues.

Here is my mirror of disk1 on my server

[imidazole2]

Give it a shot, let me know what kind of speeds you get, and if you want web hosting with us, check us out at http://www.serversunderthesun.com The mirror is here - FC2-i386-disc1.iso

Re:Here is my mirror of disk1 on my server

[imidazole2]

Whoever is trying to get disk3, I said only disk1 was up there.

71.64.68.226 - - [17/May/2004:18:01:08 -0400] "GET /FC2-i386-disc-3.iso HTTP/1.0" 404 1324 "-" "Wget/1.8.2" 171.64.68.226 - - [17/May/2004:18:01:12 -0400] "GET /FC2-i386-disc_3.iso HTTP/1.0" 404 1324 "-" "Wget/1.8.2" 171.64.68.226 - - [17/May/2004:18:01:15 -0400] "GET /FC2-i386-disc3.iso HTTP/1.0" 404 1324 "-" "Wget/1.8.2"

Re:Here is my mirror of disk1 on my server

[imidazole2]

Ok, my mirror is down now. After giving out 300gigs of just Disc 1, I figured that'd be enough =) Hope yall enjoyed it. A handful of you suckers sucked it at 1 megabyte/sec, 50% sucked it at 800k/sec or faster... fun stuff.

MD5sums GPG signature not verified?

[Hobart]

I downloaded the FC2-i386-DVD.iso

$ md5sum.exe FC2-i386-DVD.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f98 *FC2-i386-DVD.iso

I Googled for that MD5sum, and got this:

http://www.gildot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/15/0949 240

which contained the following:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

c366d585853768283dac6cdcefcd3a2d FC2-i386-disc1.iso
fc3c926442cc85a469268651bd04c1 86 FC2-i386-disc2.iso
5ad870e696953f4bbd0a9193687389 0e FC2-i386-disc3.iso
c736f8048b12315b5c0b070de1d748 67 FC2-i386-disc4.iso
2d8a20014af287bf8c6b29f2da031f 98 FC2-i386-DVD.iso
22f4bfca5baefe89f0e04166e738639f FC2-i386-rescuecd.iso
0c0268f26ed08d24880119e1b44 d45e8 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso
3d17a40489e8dcd3761f166f f264c712 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso
4e798934b399eb78e9e67dec 23d946bb FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso
5d84eb0aecea8bce8e4857d3 e46136c3 FC2-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAo8uQtEJp0E8qb9IRAjgnAJ92Rl2 f6K/1Z1DCHB6qinau88WYXgCggF4P
1xFVxG7HVYVGJenIv1o SdrQ=
=yWK+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

But when I used GPG to get the fedora@redhat.com keys off of a public keyserver, I got:

gpg: Signature made Thu May 13 13:25:04 2004 MDT using DSA key ID 4F2A6FD2
gpg: BAD signature from "Fedora Project &lt;fedora@redhat.com>"

Uhhh. Should I be worried here? Can anyone validate this md5sum before I risk it?

*** New torrent ***

[jargoone]

Read here if you're still trying to download from the original torrent

The tracker posted in the original torrent apparently couldn't handle the traffic. After some digging, I was able to find another. You should just be able to resume where you left off.

http://kuix.de/fedora/fedora-core-2-DVD.torrent

Re:*** New torrent ***

[BanzaiBill]

THANK YOU!!! Awesome! You weren't kidding about the first tracker being trashed. If only I could get more than 10 K down... I'm still serving at 30 K, tho...

computer users have to know english?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think so...

perhaps in -some- countries, where the "educated" (i.e. rich) people know english, and the poor know only their native language.. this might be the case.

But in a lot of countries, it doesn't work like you might immagine. For example, my girlfriend's parents (in japan...) neither of them knows english at all.. they both use computers.. how do you explain that? I don't think they are the only ones.... sheesh.

Wow, you just saved me a couple of hours!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks a ton. My download rate just went from 100Kb/sec to 260Kb/sec.