So with iTunes you get all the freedom of going to the mall and buying a disk, except you need to burn it first yourself and it uses lower sound quality. See when I buy music online I do because its convenient, PlayFair just makes music I've purchased convenient on my non-Apple hardware.
1) No encryption scheme is really going to work, no matter what at some point the music must be unwrapped (yes, it is a glorified wrapper).
2) This still has nothing to do with P2P. "I downloaded piles of free music from Napster and then later Kazaa. I said up and down that I wasn't stealing anything, this was WAR." That wasn't war, you might have felt angry, but it was theft. I'm not advocating theft (musicians have a right to get paid, just like the record company). I'm advocating Fair Use, or at the very least I'm advocating a post-consumer environment that is a little less in my business, because unless I'm breaking a law (ie firing up Kazaa and redistributing the tunes) I don't want businesses worrying about what I am doing.
That turned into a longer rant then I'd intended.
PlayFair doesn't allow people to illegally share music (it takes an individual to do that), it does allow them to use music they've purchased on other devices and I believe that's fair use.
I don't have a problem with companies using DRM. I have a problem with community members telling other community members that they have no right to disable what amounts to a glorified wrapper. I have even more of a problem with community members characterizing consumers audacious enough to disable DRM wrappers as pirates or thieves.
Because I don't believe that's what this is about. This is a consumer response, not the black market. I remove the label from my mattress, am I an arsonist? I believe this is too important an issue to allow such cartoonish characterizations to go unanswered. I wire my home with Squeezeboxes and purchase albums via iTunes, should I not listen to music? If that's what you believe, I'm sorry, but I will and stealing or posing has nothing to do it.
I don't mean to attack you specifically, but I've been hearing an alarming amount of PHB style responses like yours and am feeling a little fed up. Slashdot has always been more of a pulpit for OSS and software hackers. What give?
PlayFair is a postconsumer tool to remove potentailly unwanted packaging. Some people are actively trying to take up as the mouth piece for the RAII, as if I can't be trusted to use a product that I purchased or use it across a realistically broad range of electronic devices.
As far as I'm concerned I bought the product, not this packaging. And if I see fit to unwrap it so I can play it with my Squeezebox or my Rio or my wife's Linux box, who cares?
"They're either flat out thieves.."
"..or they're hair splitting posers who'll bitch about it on principle alone.."
For starters, burning every digital album I purchase just to be able to listen to it over the network from a Linux/Solaris/BSD/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computer is not something I'd realistically do. Its just not convenient and the sole advantage to purchasing these lower quality digital files is...c'mon you can get this! Convenience! So rather then being a 'flat out thief' I'm more of a honest consumer, the only posers I see here are all the Apple fan boi's out there who can't seem to fathom why on earth anyone would want to use anything but the iPod and their shiny Mac to eat, breath and shit.
But do me a favor, take it on faith. There are Mac users who use hardware and software in their day to day lives that is not blessed by Apple (don't tell anyone, but some of it is actually good too).
Next time you feel inclined to stand up on your little pulpit, think about it a little more. Somehow we've been brainwashed into thinking theirs only two kinds of people, happy proprietary DRM users and thieves. That's insulting and that's bullshit.
FTR, there are plenty of honest companies out there selling great music without DRM and often with higher quality codecs. I'm pretty fond of Magantune.com right now, but I'm sure other readers could point out a whole slew of others.
wide screen TV! And to think in the eighties I thought it was cool to steal strobing roadside lights!
Cheap digital picture frames! Whoot!
;-)
Linux hasn't been hard to *use* for ages..
on
A Babe in Tuxland
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Its the installation, configuration and maintenance. The article isn't really even about Linux its about a few friendly applications and the logon feature. I converted my mother over to Linux a couple years ago and currently my wife has been using it for a little over 2 years (babe in tuxland).
Its never been the day to do that causes problems, it installing new hardware, needing to change configurations, its all the little things people do in Windows and with their Apples everyday that quickly become monsterous with a Linux distro.
Managing a Linux workstation still requires a level tolerance and patience that the average computer user doesn't/shouldn't have. I use it because I love using it, but there are times I'd like to throw the whole box straight out the livingroom window.
I think the 'assholes' your talking about are John and Jane Doe and sharing is somewhat fundemental to a community, possibly even desireable. I think this is part of the problem and what we should be looking for is a fair compromise not a more complex mouse-trap. But what really burns me is the assumtion of guilt that has been foisted onto society lately. DRM tells me "you can not be trusted" it also tells me I don't have as many rights. And when someone in my community tells me I'm scum, or suggests that I must be pirating (why else would I possibly need fair use?) I feel a little incensed.
Remember, its not assholes sharing music, its just people (possibly even your own family or friends). Its natural to want to share and in some misguided ways maybe even noble. But all that aside, this is about to distinctly different things, a persons right to fair use (in this example PlayFair) and a morally unsound decision to pirate. Enabling playback of music through other electronic devices that you own should not be confused with piracy, or even a wish to pirate.
I don't know, something more like the cd I guess. DRM != No Piracy. This whole argument is ridiculous. If I decrypt my newly purchased Natalie Merchant cd so that I can play it on my Linux laptop why am I suddently considered a pirate? There is a whole world out there much larger then Apple and I happen to live in it. I'm not a sleaziod. I'm a consumer and I love music.
Disabling DRM on a song on an album you've purchased is akin to removing warning label from the mattress you bought. This whole piracy argument is FUD and I'm surprized (and disappointed) that the Slashdot community seems to be a little conflicted about this.
If someone *really* wanted to pirate the music there are easier (probably cheaper) ways. We all know this. So ask yourselves, what problem does this solution really address? All I can see is Fair Use. Did the Slashdot editor ever stop to think that *maybe* this software was developed by someone who got tired of being artificially limited to their means of playback? Couldn't it be something that simple?
Agreed. I just don't like that the whole argument is getting muddled. I'm not a fan of pirates and taking money from artists or distributors is the farthest thing from my mind. This is fair use. I've never seen such a morally simple situation turned on its ear. It makes me sad to see that even slashdot editors have bitten hook, line and sinker.
To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard.
Vandals? Really? Wow, because the first thing that came to my mind is: wow, I can unencrypt MY files and put them on my MythTV box, or trascode them to use in my cars mp3 player or send them through my Slimplayer. People are getting a little weird about DRM. Vandals is probably the most ridiculous thing I've hear yet. Itunes is great, but if we are going to continue to have fair use we are going to have to stop buying in to all the hype and realize that using a product we bought isn't criminal. I'm a fucking consumer, not a pirate.
Mandrake has official sources and 'non-official' sources. Because of licencing issues you would have to use the PLF source to get all the codecs, which you should have configured anyway.
Folks here tend to get wildly upset when the subject of China not upholding patents and copyrights comes up here on/.
I think, while its safe to say that the Slashdot crowd now represents a much wider cross section then in the past, we are still (in general) not wild at all about patents and copyrights (although because of the GPL we are somewhat tolerant of the latter).
Now I'd agree with comments like:
Patents like this one have devalued the system
If I thought the current patent system had much value to begin with. But as far as I can see the USPTO is in the business of granting patents and leaves it to the court system to decide on the validity.
This probably used to work fine, but like a lot of other things, the volume and scope of todays incoming patents is probably quite astounding.
If you fallen into thinking that the Sci-Fi channel generates the bulk of its revenue with cable tv licensing I suspect you've forgotten about tv advertising. Advertisers pay for the overhead.
I know I like to bring this up from time to time, but its just a reminder: dual licencing is OK, OSS developers can make money too! Just give me something in exchange for my money, preferably something I can understand as a proffesional extra! Distro specific packages? A proffesionally reworked GUI? You know, some gravey!
Nice sig. I guess it the scheme of things its just a minor rant of mine and if its really necessary (or becomes necessary) the marketing teams will clambor for the change themselves. It just seems like when I look at all those fancy logos on a piece of hardware or software Tux just looks 1984 to me. But I hadn't thought about it as warming people up to Linux, so maybe a little fuddy-duddy isn't so bad. *shrug*
And I don't know if 'Only if they don't follow the GPL.' was added later or not, but it looks like the editor knew it wasn't necessarily an issue too.
Not to bang on you (or anyone in particular) but what I'm getting a little tired of is all the knee jerk 'your just having a knee jerk' comments lately. Its like on Slashdot it used to be cool to be a Linux zealot, but now its more in fashion to be an anti-Linux-zealot zealot. Its making my head spin.;-)
ESR just jumped A LOT of points in my book. I haven't read anything so dead on in the community in ages. But add to that his level of tact and his *gasp* sympathy for the user. Wow. Definitely worth the read.
Slashdot Mirror
So with iTunes you get all the freedom of going to the mall and buying a disk, except you need to burn it first yourself and it uses lower sound quality. See when I buy music online I do because its convenient, PlayFair just makes music I've purchased convenient on my non-Apple hardware.
Well, here's the thing (two things really):
1) No encryption scheme is really going to work, no matter what at some point the music must be unwrapped (yes, it is a glorified wrapper).
2) This still has nothing to do with P2P. "I downloaded piles of free music from Napster and then later Kazaa. I said up and down that I wasn't stealing anything, this was WAR." That wasn't war, you might have felt angry, but it was theft. I'm not advocating theft (musicians have a right to get paid, just like the record company). I'm advocating Fair Use, or at the very least I'm advocating a post-consumer environment that is a little less in my business, because unless I'm breaking a law (ie firing up Kazaa and redistributing the tunes) I don't want businesses worrying about what I am doing.
That turned into a longer rant then I'd intended.
PlayFair doesn't allow people to illegally share music (it takes an individual to do that), it does allow them to use music they've purchased on other devices and I believe that's fair use.
I don't have a problem with companies using DRM. I have a problem with community members telling other community members that they have no right to disable what amounts to a glorified wrapper. I have even more of a problem with community members characterizing consumers audacious enough to disable DRM wrappers as pirates or thieves.
Because I don't believe that's what this is about. This is a consumer response, not the black market. I remove the label from my mattress, am I an arsonist? I believe this is too important an issue to allow such cartoonish characterizations to go unanswered. I wire my home with Squeezeboxes and purchase albums via iTunes, should I not listen to music? If that's what you believe, I'm sorry, but I will and stealing or posing has nothing to do it.
I don't mean to attack you specifically, but I've been hearing an alarming amount of PHB style responses like yours and am feeling a little fed up. Slashdot has always been more of a pulpit for OSS and software hackers. What give?
PlayFair is a postconsumer tool to remove potentailly unwanted packaging. Some people are actively trying to take up as the mouth piece for the RAII, as if I can't be trusted to use a product that I purchased or use it across a realistically broad range of electronic devices.
As far as I'm concerned I bought the product, not this packaging. And if I see fit to unwrap it so I can play it with my Squeezebox or my Rio or my wife's Linux box, who cares?
Where do you guys come from?
"They're either flat out thieves.."
"..or they're hair splitting posers who'll bitch about it on principle alone.."
For starters, burning every digital album I purchase just to be able to listen to it over the network from a Linux/Solaris/BSD/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computer is not something I'd realistically do. Its just not convenient and the sole advantage to purchasing these lower quality digital files is...c'mon you can get this! Convenience! So rather then being a 'flat out thief' I'm more of a honest consumer, the only posers I see here are all the Apple fan boi's out there who can't seem to fathom why on earth anyone would want to use anything but the iPod and their shiny Mac to eat, breath and shit.
But do me a favor, take it on faith. There are Mac users who use hardware and software in their day to day lives that is not blessed by Apple (don't tell anyone, but some of it is actually good too).
Next time you feel inclined to stand up on your little pulpit, think about it a little more. Somehow we've been brainwashed into thinking theirs only two kinds of people, happy proprietary DRM users and thieves. That's insulting and that's bullshit.
FTR, there are plenty of honest companies out there selling great music without DRM and often with higher quality codecs. I'm pretty fond of Magantune.com right now, but I'm sure other readers could point out a whole slew of others.
wide screen TV! And to think in the eighties I thought it was cool to steal strobing roadside lights!
;-)
Cheap digital picture frames! Whoot!
Its the installation, configuration and maintenance. The article isn't really even about Linux its about a few friendly applications and the logon feature. I converted my mother over to Linux a couple years ago and currently my wife has been using it for a little over 2 years (babe in tuxland).
Its never been the day to do that causes problems, it installing new hardware, needing to change configurations, its all the little things people do in Windows and with their Apples everyday that quickly become monsterous with a Linux distro.
Managing a Linux workstation still requires a level tolerance and patience that the average computer user doesn't/shouldn't have. I use it because I love using it, but there are times I'd like to throw the whole box straight out the livingroom window.
I think the 'assholes' your talking about are John and Jane Doe and sharing is somewhat fundemental to a community, possibly even desireable. I think this is part of the problem and what we should be looking for is a fair compromise not a more complex mouse-trap. But what really burns me is the assumtion of guilt that has been foisted onto society lately. DRM tells me "you can not be trusted" it also tells me I don't have as many rights. And when someone in my community tells me I'm scum, or suggests that I must be pirating (why else would I possibly need fair use?) I feel a little incensed.
Remember, its not assholes sharing music, its just people (possibly even your own family or friends). Its natural to want to share and in some misguided ways maybe even noble. But all that aside, this is about to distinctly different things, a persons right to fair use (in this example PlayFair) and a morally unsound decision to pirate. Enabling playback of music through other electronic devices that you own should not be confused with piracy, or even a wish to pirate.
I don't know, something more like the cd I guess. DRM != No Piracy. This whole argument is ridiculous. If I decrypt my newly purchased Natalie Merchant cd so that I can play it on my Linux laptop why am I suddently considered a pirate? There is a whole world out there much larger then Apple and I happen to live in it. I'm not a sleaziod. I'm a consumer and I love music.
Disabling DRM on a song on an album you've purchased is akin to removing warning label from the mattress you bought. This whole piracy argument is FUD and I'm surprized (and disappointed) that the Slashdot community seems to be a little conflicted about this.
If someone *really* wanted to pirate the music there are easier (probably cheaper) ways. We all know this. So ask yourselves, what problem does this solution really address? All I can see is Fair Use. Did the Slashdot editor ever stop to think that *maybe* this software was developed by someone who got tired of being artificially limited to their means of playback? Couldn't it be something that simple?
FTR, last couple of albums I bought were also through a site referred to in a Slashdot story: Magnatune.com. I love music and I'm happy to pay for it.
Agreed. I just don't like that the whole argument is getting muddled. I'm not a fan of pirates and taking money from artists or distributors is the farthest thing from my mind. This is fair use. I've never seen such a morally simple situation turned on its ear. It makes me sad to see that even slashdot editors have bitten hook, line and sinker.
To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard.
Vandals? Really? Wow, because the first thing that came to my mind is: wow, I can unencrypt MY files and put them on my MythTV box, or trascode them to use in my cars mp3 player or send them through my Slimplayer. People are getting a little weird about DRM. Vandals is probably the most ridiculous thing I've hear yet. Itunes is great, but if we are going to continue to have fair use we are going to have to stop buying in to all the hype and realize that using a product we bought isn't criminal. I'm a fucking consumer, not a pirate.
Maybe one day the meek really will inherit the earth?
Mandrake has official sources and 'non-official' sources. Because of licencing issues you would have to use the PLF source to get all the codecs, which you should have configured anyway.
every day.
/.
Folks here tend to get wildly upset when the subject of China not upholding patents and copyrights comes up here on
I think, while its safe to say that the Slashdot crowd now represents a much wider cross section then in the past, we are still (in general) not wild at all about patents and copyrights (although because of the GPL we are somewhat tolerant of the latter).
Now I'd agree with comments like:
Patents like this one have devalued the system
If I thought the current patent system had much value to begin with. But as far as I can see the USPTO is in the business of granting patents and leaves it to the court system to decide on the validity.
This probably used to work fine, but like a lot of other things, the volume and scope of todays incoming patents is probably quite astounding.
If you fallen into thinking that the Sci-Fi channel generates the bulk of its revenue with cable tv licensing I suspect you've forgotten about tv advertising. Advertisers pay for the overhead.
You've obviously never bought OSS software. I *mean* exactly what I said and its not exactly like the Windows world.
He he. Thank you, Captian.
Intellegent mesh networks are the next step in large scale interconnectivity. Its just a matter figuring out how to sell them.
I know I like to bring this up from time to time, but its just a reminder: dual licencing is OK, OSS developers can make money too! Just give me something in exchange for my money, preferably something I can understand as a proffesional extra! Distro specific packages? A proffesionally reworked GUI? You know, some gravey!
Or at least a donations button.
Vendors = agreed
Paperclip = agreed
Nice sig. I guess it the scheme of things its just a minor rant of mine and if its really necessary (or becomes necessary) the marketing teams will clambor for the change themselves. It just seems like when I look at all those fancy logos on a piece of hardware or software Tux just looks 1984 to me. But I hadn't thought about it as warming people up to Linux, so maybe a little fuddy-duddy isn't so bad. *shrug*
And I don't know if 'Only if they don't follow the GPL.' was added later or not, but it looks like the editor knew it wasn't necessarily an issue too. Not to bang on you (or anyone in particular) but what I'm getting a little tired of is all the knee jerk 'your just having a knee jerk' comments lately. Its like on Slashdot it used to be cool to be a Linux zealot, but now its more in fashion to be an anti-Linux-zealot zealot. Its making my head spin. ;-)
You don't mean the underside. ;-)
ESR just jumped A LOT of points in my book. I haven't read anything so dead on in the community in ages. But add to that his level of tact and his *gasp* sympathy for the user. Wow. Definitely worth the read.