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A Babe in Tuxland
Joe Barr writes "This is the kind of story that WagEd and MS would love to see in one of their astroturf campaigns. But this story is real grassroots, with a real Sysadmin writing it and a real granddaughter as the babe using Linux. A sweet tale, with tips on Linux for kids." Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.
Tux babies, not Tux babes
-Colin
OK, how many people here were expecting someone, you know, kinda hot?
SHE'S FOUR YEARS OLD! HAVE YOU NO DECENCY ?!
-roy
Man, I love this. This is the kind of thing I dream about at night, this is total evangelist fodder (can that be used in a good way?)
Like everyone else I've got alot of old hardware that Windoze won't run on - but you can run Open Office, Mozilla on top of KDE/GNOME on a Pentium I and it'll work for kids quite well. No need to upgrade and shell out additional cash. And hey KDE Games are GREAT for kids..and they're free!!!
... like Linux's built-in features to prevent K.D. from accidentally finding sites that aren't age-appropriate, or at least haven't been pre-approved by Mom and Dad.
b.g.
Yea, that's great. And when she starts having trouble you can just tell her to RTFM!
... have got me slightly worried. Slightly.
Hate me!
The whole idea behind this setup is taking the time to put the system-important screens outside of the 4-year-old's view, so therefore she could click around the screen and even get to the web without getting into much trouble.
A Windows-expert parent could set up Windows to be the same way. The key thing to having a kid be able to use a computer without breaking it is having a smart admin as a parent.
"My four-year-old granddaughter, K.D., hasn't had any trouble figuring it out, and if she can do it, you can too."
/. community).
User Intelligence:
Boss with MBA 4-year-old girl
Seriously, though - kids learn at some incredible rates. They pick up language, new skills, etc. so much faster than adults. We often have to fight through a lifetime of doing something one way in order to do it a "better" or just plain newer way.
BTW, the article is chock full of acronym hell if you're not pretty familiar with Linux (not so worried about the
These Linux tots better start their paper-routes and set up their lemonade stands early: Darl's going to be on his way to take their candy money.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I am a computer programming student, and a I barely know how to use Linux. I wonder how long it will take for her to write her own scripts....
Additional information...
Karma: -2147483648 (Mostly affected by integer overflow)
A pre-schooler using a computer, I can't fathom that! Come on, seriously, why is this such a big deal? When I was two I could use a Commodore Vic20. That included plugging in cartridges, using the tape drive, and loading programs... Just like Dad and without a login.
Almost a year ago my (at the time) 4 year old cousin was visiting my parent's house while I was in town. She asked for the laptop and fired up IE. She was on her favorite website (I don't remember what it was, Blues Clues?) in seconds. She knew the URL, she knew exactly where she wanted to navigate to, and she didn't need my help... I was utterly confused by the flashing, moving, and colorful icons. I couldn't discern what was clickable and what wasn't. She knew and that's all that mattered.
Now... If I sat her down in front of a Linux machine w/KDE installed and told her "this is the IE icon" (or however she understood it) you don't think she would be able to do the same thing?
This article reeked of parental excitement. Their child was interested in using the computer!!!
Kids know computers... I realize that they are saying that KDE is easy enough for a child to use... Anything in X was that easy. It's the rest of Linux that isn't so easy.
She was shoving the system tools off, "out of sight out of mind"... It's not so easy for a regular user of a system to do that. You might actually have to deal w/something on the computer if you aren't 2 years old.
Linux is getting there but it certainly isn't as easy as they seem to be making it out to be. I wish it were but it's not and while I believe in advocating its use to everyone that might benefit from it, I don't think insulting people by saying "My two year old can use it, so can you" is the best way to go.
So did I with my father's TK85 in the early 80's. I could load and save things from my tape recorder and program it to show nice things on the screen. I think we can deduce that TK85 already had all there was to have about interfaces...
I've already set the defaults in Mplayer to be compatible with the TV, so when he needs only click on icons to navigate to the movies he wants to watch...
Seriously though the issue is - how easy is Linux/Windows/MacOS/any other software if you don't have a handy guru to help you configure and then support you when it goes wrong?
The issue is not how easy a kid finds it when their dad is a software guru (though it's kinda cute, my Apple-crazy friend's 4 year old son is similar), but how Joe Public, who has no software engineer friends, finds setup and maintenance and patching.
In the first paragraph we learn that KD is the author's granddaughter.
The second paragraph begins
"K.D. had watched her mom, my wife,..."
Hate to nitpick, but that makes KD's mom is also her grandmother...
and her last names starts with an E ? That would be rather freaky ;)
http://www.virtualconcepts.nl/
she's four, dude.
[it's sarcasm....]
As wonderful as it is to see a young child able to use Linux, is it really necessary for children use computers? They are wonderful tools, and there are many games for young children that help them learn, but really, couldn't the parents teach the children just as well?
The real problem is when parents let their children sit in front of a TV or computer all day. There's a lot more to life than just staring at screens.
Jeremy Baumgartner
Maybe she could help him hook up his printer.
I don't see how this demonstrates ease of use on Linux.
Anyone knows that Kids have inate abilities to learn at a fast rate, including the ability to learn things with very little tuition.
A child 'exposed' to a language just 'picks up' that language without any real tuition, they mimick their parents and come to gain an understanding for the words and sentences and grammatical structure.
I'm sure the same thing is happening here. The child is 'exposed' to an interface and 'picks up' what to do by mimicking the parents, gaining an understanding of each action as they go.
I'd be more impressed by a 90-year old figuring out how to use Linux.
When I was that age, if you asked me how to spell my name I would respond "D A M I A N Return" (Commodore PET user since before I can remember). And I learned how to count because you had to fast-forward the tape so-many-seconds to reach a certain game (TRS 80 model 100). Now maybe if she was programming....
The Debian Jr. project has been around for quite a long time. Its aims are to package and maintain a collection of relevant applications for the younger generation within the Debian framework.
This is very much an active project which is working with some of the other organisations. I myself have experimented with some of the stuff it includes with my niece. As mentioned in the article tuxpaint seems to be very popular for the pre-school age group.
The growth of these "Custom Debian Distributions" (the contents of which can usually be used on a traditional Debian install) should help bring free software into lots more situations.
Rob 'robster' Bradford
Debian Planet Guy
We are the apt. You will be packaged. Resistance is futile.
This is how to get linux onto the desktop and into the home. This girl will probably use linux for the rest of her life. This is great for the entire community. I dont know if one exists, but perhaps a website to turn kids to linux would be a great help the future of the OS. It is not as sexy or carry the bragging rights that kernel development does, but developing more software that a kid can use (not necessarily that young) opens the door to the next generation.
KDE while not my WM of choice (dont be shocked by the tone of my voice...), has a number of fun toys for kids, and Debian Jr. will help yours truly bring along my lil' jedi with linux from an early age.
He who confuses his religion with his science knows neither.
Has she compiled the kernel yet?
It's important to allow toddlers the illusion of freedom, it helps reenforce the idea that curiosity can lead to great things.
A little off topic I guess, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around the intro of the article:
..."
"... My four-year-old granddaughter, K.D., hasn't had any trouble figuring it out, and if she can do it, you can too. K.D. had watched her mom, my wife,
Ummmm, does that mean the author re-married his own daughter so that THEIR child is his granddaughter? Or am I just completely out to lunch here?
My users are dumber than 4 year olds?
Wait.. that's insulting to 4 year olds... sorry, let me correct it:
My users are dumb.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I am not a parent ... and I never plan to be ... but God help me - if I ever have a kid, I pray I don't go around boring the heck out of other people with stories about my kid.
I've thought to be true for quite some time. Linux really shines in its ability to customize the user's experience to fit the user's needs. This is a strongpoint that really lends itself to application in Elementary and Pre-Elementary learning enviroments.
This article also highlights a good example of postive computer interacion where the childs family took and interest in their computer activites and really made the whole thing a good experience. Interesting reading.
-Adam C. Greenfield
I would expect that every serious reader of /. who is competent in their field, is that way because of an early start. TRS-80, Apple II, Vic-20, C64, those Radio Shack x-in-1 electronics kits. All of these early experiences have made us what we are, and turned us into Linux Geeks and PERL hackers, RF Engineers and whatever else we do, as a collective group. What are we stirring up in the next generation when we provide something better then Windows? I just hope not another Bill Gates!
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
What the hell kind of a scam are you people running here?!? With a title like that I expect, nay demand, a nsfw link. A page of filth, degradation and naughty penguins.
And what do I get? A story about some old fart's granddaughter!?! You people suck...
I read this and all I can say is... Big Deal! So a toddler can use a browser and a drawing program. This could be done in Windows, OSX, etc. No big deal.
Heck, my 2-year-old daughter can use my wife's Palm III. Is that a big deal? Not really.
"I'd be more impressed by a 90-year old figuring out how to use Linux."
For those much closer to tne end of their life, there is *BSD.
much more efficently than one little girl at a time.
If they hadn't bravely lead the way in the sexualization of children, your comment wouldn't be funny, and I wouldn't be able to look foreward to K.D. working at Raisins in 4 to 6 years.
tell them that you know of one four-year-old who has been handling it daily for more than a year.
call me again when she decided to wipe his HD to install debian or gentoo from scratch. Oh what joy she had compiling her first kernel...
Now if Martha Stewart made a website about how she uses linux on the prison laptops and puts up pictures of herself in swimwear, I might be interested.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
everyone's using Word
No everyone is using a word processor....
Having to use the exact same program as others to do a job is typical thinking of an adult.
Kids see a word processor, it has a field to type text, it has some toolbar icons to change the font size and apearance and it has a 'file' menu with 'save', 'open' and 'print' options.
Can you tell me exactly which wordprocessing progam I just described?
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
K.D. had watched her mom, my wife, and me using the various Linux-based computers in our home...
He's listed off the three people his granddaughter has watched using the computer, her mother, his wife, and himself.
Emily, my three year old could do the Mr Potato head game. What I found curious is the machine is dual boot and she knew which OS had the game. I'm glad other posters have mentioned using X is childsplay not linux. I've still not got full functionality from my radeon 9200 under linux. That said, I'd rather let Emily run amok in linux than window.
Well, not only was the quote taken a bit out of context, but the article clearly states that the author lives & works in the Austin, TX area.
For what you're implying, we'd have to have an article from a writer based in Arksansas, Alabama, or Missouri.*
*Disclaimer: I'm a Missouri native, I've got family (ick) in 'Bama, and I make no excuses for Arkansas whatsoever thank you very much.
"Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
A kid's application should be like clay, changing it on a whim to try new things quickly.
This Perl module provides scripted access to the SDL (Simple Direct-media Layer) libraries. Hopefully, this whole thing will be mostly portable to Windows.
When the graphics are simple, and hardware assisted, a scripting language like Perl starts making more sense. The actual application logic doesn't need a lot of horsepower.
I pipe many text messages off to Festival, since young kids aren't going to be able to read a prompt like "How many apples do you see?" I wish the TTS community had better packaging for alternative voices like MBROLA's extensions... I've yet to get anything but three pure Festival voices working.
I want to develop Perl bindings to the Open Dynamics Engine, letting the on-screen toys "fall" and "bounce" and interact realistically. It looks very promising, but I'll save that work for later.
My library consists of about 3000 lines so far, not counting the docs and auxilliary helper routines. I'm working to make extensions as simple and flexible as possible, so the curriculum can grow quickly and spontaneously.
Toy::World will be able to handle basic lessons and drills at first, such as counting and adding, letter and shape identification. I want to start building on those ideas into the usual early-childhood skills of understanding money, subtraction, words, matching, memory skills, and animal identification.
I've yet to work out the basic reward system, but I'm thinking of a sort of token-winning, token-spending theme, where you can play certain lessons to win on-screen coin tokens Mario-style, and some lessons may require spending those same tokens (or Mom can check out the totals for a few real-world benefits).
With a lot more work, I want to get into more hands-on experimentation. Simulated water-pouring, block-stacking, multiplication drills, cause/effect lessons, and even networked "shared toys" simulations involving small groups of children.
By that time I hope to have opened the project to community help. Contact me if you're interested.
[
It must be this script kiddie porn I've been hearing so much about...
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
I think this story nicely illustrates how smart children can be. I have a brother who just turned six, and has seen Windows installs so often he can do it (at least he instructed me last time when I did it). That said, he insists on Linux these days "because it has better games". By these, he means rafkill, xonix, and sopwith. For sopwith, he even figured the controls (which are about the most horrible ever - especially on a Dvorak keyboard) in a few minutes.
I'm gonna give the kid a book about programming and see how long it takes before he writes some revolutionary app that only he could think of...
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
mom and dad will be out, and she'll be looking for early unwrapped Christmas presents and accidentally come across the laptop hidden in the closet, or under the bed. She'll open a joke e-mail for nero-online.org/lastmeasure and the damage will have been done anyway. She'll backpack across europe, and when she returns home, dad can't look her in the eye, because he saw that german shiste video she made with the midget, and how she managed to rent an apartment for a week in amsterdam with no money....
Having to use the exact same program as others to do a job is typical thinking of an adult.
Because the adults have learned the hard way, that unless you havge the same program, you are going to get into a big hassle when you try to share your documents with someone else.
The kids, on the other hand, are happy using something that is not useful. Kids buy toy cell phones that do nothing but beep and have little candy-compartments. Adults know better.
"Hey Joe? That Word document you sent me? My WordScar program says it converts it, but all of the formatting is off and the fonts don't match."
A babe using linux should've had the spam icon, no?
My daughter is almost 3 and has been using her own KDE session on my Debian box for the past few months. I set up a username for her, so that I could log her in and know that she couldn't mess up anything I cared about.
We were gobsmacked when we realised that she had figured out how to type her username and password, though. She was *so* pleased with herself when she got that sussed out.
On her desktop, she has Mozilla Firefox set to go to BBC CBeebies - appropriate content for pre-school and you can't 'escape' the site, since all links are internal. She also enjoys using TuxPaint to draw pictures for us.
I'm hoping she's going to do a spot of Toddler Linux Advocacy at the local playgroups soon ...
"If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it." --- Arthur Kasspe
And geeks wonder why they get beat up on the playground. Greeeeat, my daughter can use KDE at age 2, but she talks like she has a pile of shit in her mouth.
Just because your 2 year old can point and click doesn't prove that her dad is a bonefied genius. Quit trying to validate yourself through your kid.
Go outside, play catch with your kid, and get her some HUMAN interaction. Maybe then she won't become the social regect that we're all too framilar with.
Like the subject says a live Linux CD is good for
kids so they can't touch the harddrive. I tried a live Linux CD with my kid but it was just KDE
(I can recall which - probably linuxforkids.org)
with some icons for some kid apps. In my opinion
KDE is too much for kids. For young kids there should just be a icons for the apps and nothing
else. However I notice in my preschoolers class they have a regular Windows box with kids apps and they see to figure it out.
First babe using Linux post
In Soviet Russia, 4 year old control YOU
Linux is not hard unless you convince yourself that it is.
Ah, so the next time I'm having trouble with my PC, all I have to do is remember to "think uncomplicated thoughts, think uncomplicated thoughts, think..."
Guess daddy was the mod! Jesus, thin skinned idiot geek, get a fucking life.
Based on the complexity of the language in the article, we can safely conclude that the grandfather is of above average intelligence and education.
Given the warm and caring nature hinted at in the narrative itself, we can conclude that this individual probably married a woman of comparable intelligence, as he lacks the characteristics necessary to desire a shallow woman lacking in intelligence.
We can also assume that his children, following the usual human pattern of using their parents' relationship as a template, made similar choices in their choice of a spouse.
Thus we can see that this four year old is the product of at least two generations of intelligent people marrying intelligent people, with a clear value for nurturing their offspring.
In short, this is about a smart kid with a caring family who learns how to use computers. Not applicable in the workplace, as this kid is probably smarter than most the people I work with.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
That's it! After reading this article about Linux babes, I decided to install BSD right now!
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope my kids don't take a liking to computers at such a young age. I'm going to try to keep them away from computers for as long as I can. I'd rather them "play" the old school way. Take them outside as much as possible. Make them do more physical activities.
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
The adults in the family help guide K.D's computing experiences by setting a good example to follow with a few routine practices. These include logging out when we leave the computer for more than a minute or two, closing applications that we are not actively using
I would hate to work on an OS that couldn't deal with leaving several applications open. Fortunately, I use
As for logging out whenever they "leave the computer for more than a minute or two." That would be a hopeless pain. I don't know whether the issue is security. (just lock the screen) or sharing (no good answer for Linux*) But logging in and out all the time and starting and stopping applications along the way is too much like work.
*Wouldn't it be cool to be able to switch between multiple GUI login sessions without having to close one out before opening another. I suppose I could get this to work by using a simple GUI login that runs VNC client, and then have the "real" login sessions running as VNC servers. I wonder how well that would work...
lo, their son flux will be the star of the family.
I'm pretty sure a lot of four year olds have been posting as AC's for quite some time.
I suppose that a female using Linux is such a rare occurence that it merits a Slashdot front page post. Where I come from, which is the Windows world everyone uses Windows, Office et al., it takes us 2 minutes to delete a file, 5 minutes to search for something and lots of dumb blondes with stupid questions
So, is "K.D." her real initials? Or did the author make that up. If they're real, then did her parents name her after their (or at least her mother's) preferred desktop environment? (KDE) Seems a little too coincidental to me.
And saw Sesame Street the numbers game. Too bad it was for Windows only.
Then her and dad went to one of those online game sites for kids. Too bad it was for IE only.
Then they went to another kid's site and the buttons didn't work. There was some kind of VBS error. Weird huh?
Then they tried to watch an Elmo video in real format. Dad spent all afternoon trying to compile mplayer with real support. Too bad dad couldn't get the mplayer gui to work.
Your entire post was worthless. Needs to be moderated as redundant.
Don't go around trying to make karma off what other people post. Be original.
what they are likely to have is a parent who has been using Windows the last ten years
care to guess which system they are teaching their kids?
Gorilla's can do that and even form sentences
Unlike certain human's !
You shouldn't have printed this story. Now the poor 4 yr old will be sued by SCO!
do they post on slashdot too???
Just like all those kids whose first computer experience was ENIAC are still using punched tape...
Ydco co
for years now. She's 4 and started using mine when she was about 2. At the time I didn't think she was old enough to use a computer but we bought a box of cereal that had a Mr. Potatoe head game in it. She wanted to play it so I popped it into my computer. There's this one game where Mr. Potatoe Head breaks a picture into 4-6 pieces and you have to put it back together. I glanced away for a sec and then I heard, "All done". I looked back and she had it put back together, I didn't even know she knew how to use a mouse. So after that we bought some more games for her (mostly all educational where games teach numbers, letters, colors and lately more advanced games.) I thought about putting linux on her computer but in order to use flash sites (which kid sites are full off) you need to be running moz 2.6. The flash plugin is alot faster than earlier versions. But then I realized she must have about 30 games for the windows platform. I don't think its worth the effort to put linux on her computer and try to get these games running under wine or somesuch. My daughter is 4.5 now and my son is 2.2 and they can put any game on by themselves and play it. The cdroms are getting a bit dirty tho. Linux is all and good but there are no educational games out there for it and personally I don't think its the right platform for my kids right now. When they get older and need to do papers for school then it will be a different story. Personally i'm not a big MS fan but i'm not a linux Zealot either.. I try to pick a platform that suits my needs. And what I see in that article and responses on its website, is that there are alot of linux zealots out there who can't see the forest through the trees. I don't think they realize some of the great software their kids are missing out on. For my server at home I run linux... On my desktop I run Linux and Winbloze. On my kids computer I have windows.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Open Source Educational Foundation and Tux4Kids have put together Knoppix bootable CD for kids. I showed it to my daughter a while ago, and even though playing on the computer isn't really her favourite thing to do (she'd rather ride her bike and look at books - what's with the kids today?), she did enjoy some of the games. TuxPaint in particular was a big hit.
If you really want to prevent your kids from accidentally causing problems on your system, this could be a nice alternative. Heck, burn a few copies of the CDs and put them in the kiddies' lunchboxes as they head off to school; I'm sure the schools would love to have kids booting a different OS on the computers in the school computer lab!
Even heroes have the right to dream
My not-quite 2-year-old son has been "using" an old iMac for a few months now. He used to watch my wife and I on our computers, and would scoot up to take the mouse from us and try clicking things. So I took a 4-year-old iMac we had around, set it up minimally, and installed a few kids' programs (Jumpstart Preschool, Finding Nemo, and a couple of others), and set it up so he could just wake it up, grab one of the programs in the Dock, and go to town with it.
.DMG files out of each one, and have them automount at startup so he can use all his programs.
He mastered it very quickly. Now he calls it his "Mac-y", and asks to use it almost daily. We let him have a half-hour or so at a time, and he's picked up a decent amount of skill very quickly. He likes doing letter drills the most.
Funny anecdote: one of the first times we let him use it, he was having a little trouble pointing the mouse properly. I went to help him position it, and he pushed my hand away and said "No!". After a minute, he figured it out himself. Now I help him with very little and don't volunteer it - I wait for him to ask.
And a pet peeve: Why do all kids' programs require the CD to be present? Don't you know we can't trust a toddler with a CD? I have to make
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
for years now. She's 4 and started using mine when she was about 2. At the time I didn't think she was old enough to use a computer but we bought a box of cereal that had a Mr. Potatoe head game in it
Mr Vice President? Good to see you here at last. You know, I, too, never learned the Java language because my travels never took me to Indonesia.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
MS don't need this kind of thing. Everybody knows that a four-year old can use a computer if you lay the icons out nice and easy on their desktop. I'm sure many thousands of four-year-olds all over the world are capable of clicking on an icon and using a program. All my kids have their own profile on XP on our computers. They love it - customising their desktops, trying to guess each other's passwords...
my bad.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
(For those of us who don't know these things by heart)
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
vi. No, wait...
Ydco co
"What kind of work do you need to get done? Writing and printing documents, spreadsheets? Sending and receiving emails? Browsing web pages? Designing web applications? All can be done on Linux just as easily as on Windows, provided you're trained in the appropriate Windows or Linux programs."
It is not quite as easy. There are far fewer programs on Linux to do these things as there are on Windows. So you have to spend more time finding the right program that meets your needs. There is a greater chance you might not even find the right program with Linux.
The situation is improving, and the gap is narrowing. The Linux community looks to the future. It is not like the Mac community, where mac zealots say "If there is no program to do it on the Mac, it is not worth doing" or "having lots of different programs is a BAD thing: it confuses the users".
- Read headline, click on article
- Quickly scroll through article looking for pictures of this "babe"
- Found none, went to comments
- Found out she was four years old
- Forwarded michael's email address to perverted-justice.com
However, the issue arises when an average user has to do some setup themselves.. They buy a new printer, digital camera, etc. Thats where the issues are now in linux. On Windows you put in the cd that came with the product and a few clicks later your ready to go. I think most of us are aware of the issues you can experience in linux.
Yeah, his kid has knows how to use a computer but newsflash, tons of kids do. My daugher has had her own computer since she was 2... Now if his kid could use a cash register and count out correct change i'd be impressed.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Over a hundred comments, and still no links to grown up Linux Babes. What has happened to Slashdot?
Heck, my son's been doing this since he was about 1.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
You insensitive clod! Or is it GNU/ESR?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
To a child an icon is an icon it doesnt matter what color it is or what it looks like. They see an icon , they double click, something happens. If its not what they expect they click the next icon until the something they are expecting happens. This is how they seem to learn so seemlessly. Adults have had it beaten into them that the world is static, children understand that the world is dynamic.
Specialization is for insects - Lazarus Long
Thats not a troll, it's offtopic, but its not a troll
So why am I headded over to my friend's house (a VP of Marketing -- no dumbass) this morning to help him get his printer to work on Windows?
I help CPAs, Morgage Brokers, etc., every single day with the same crap people say makes Linux "hard".
Look, computers are hard. Can't people see the forest for the religeous trees?! When you get used to one environment, anything else looks "foreing". That makes it real convenient to say "that... that... thing! It made me work at figuring this... this... thing I don't even have to think about in my world."
You are just adding more religeon to the noise. Windows is much harder to learn -- in many respects -- as is Linux. You just don't run into many folks (yet) who've had to go the other direction: Linux to Windows.
I've been using Unix for twenty years. Last environment used (before switching to Linux) was Solaris. Let me tell you, young whipper snapper, when I had my first try at Windows (1998). I about had a nervous breakdown.
I still don't like Windows XP verry well. It just doesn't feel right. Everything is so fucking hard to get done in that stupid practically-windows-only environment, with a command prompt that won't auto-complete! Why is it 2004 and DOS won't auto-complete?! Morons.
You're missing the very fact that in many, many cases, when "things don't always work right" you can't even get them back to working whatsoever -- as you watch Windows eat itself alive and laugh at you while it makes you play "pin the tail on the problem". It blindfolds you!
Some people have paid me thousands to fix their Windows problems. Simple stuff, like getting printers to work or their Outlook to quit behaving "weird". Thousands, because they keep asking me to come back to do more -- install this software, fix this little glitch, remove this spyware my daughter installd ("my computer's slow"). Translation? "It's too hard for me to do it". In my opinion, it is Windows which isn't quite baked enough and ready for anyones' desktop.
You want "easy"? Then everyone should be using a PDA or maybe a Mac.
However, the issue arises when an average user has to do some setup themselves.. They buy a new printer, digital camera, etc. Thats where the issues are now in linux. On Windows you put in the cd that came with the product and a few clicks later your ready to go. I think most of us are aware of the issues you can experience in linux.
This seems to be the most common complaint about Linux usability these days - it used to be about the horrible hard to confugure GUIs (ever tried writing FVWM2 config files - easy if you know how, but it can take some real work if you are learning), but now it is about not being able to plug in hardware you buy.
Except this isn't a problem with Linux - well, in as much as Windows is no better. If the manufacturers shipped with a CD full of Linux and OS X drivers and no windows drivers you'd have as hard a time on windows as you do on Linux - probablyharder in fact.
As Linux becomes more widely used - and that is happening, look at the corporate desktop) more and more manufacturers will ship Linux drivers with their product. Then this Linux usability problem will simply evaporate as if it had never existed.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
That kids deprived, get her a Playstation FFS.
Microsoft posting this kind of story and passing it off as real news = "astroturfing."
OSDN-owned Slashdot posting OSDN-owned Newsforge's story and passing it off as real news = nobody says anything.
If some Windows company owned a news site that was always posting anti-Linux stuff, people would be up in arms, but it's okay for OSDN to do it with Slashdot.
Off-topic I know..."No Karma Bonus" unchecked accordingly.
Ever try to get wireless working on your linux machine? Using PCMCIA on a laptop? Go try that with anything that you just bought off the shelf because it was cheap and tell me how the Linux vs Windows installation is. And I'm not even talking about the driver itself, I'm talking about which #@$! file gets updated (and don't start with "use the gui then" because the gui didn't even recognize the card) and what it needs in it to work.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
My family uses Linux -- and only Linux. Not because I'm a Linux zealot. They use it because it's what they know. It's what they know because it was the only environment their dad could put together that would not require him to become a full-time system administrator, at home.
We have six kids (now age 9 - 19). Thus we've always had many computers around -- the kids spend equal amounts of time with PS2, TV and PC.
We've tried Windows many, many times. We always go back to "easy" Linux. It just runs; We all know it; It offers us all the games we need; Got tired of hearing "IE sucks", "Outlook sucks", "Office sucks", etc., etc.
Had I been able to make more of a living, sooner in life, half of them may have had Macs, by now. The others would probably still be happier with Linux.
Again, it isn't about Linux, Windows or Mac. It's about what is most familiar.
From http://www.2000trainers.com/forums/viewthread.php
I started my kid at 18 months. I setup my file server to start up gcompris automatically. I highly recommend it. It has age-based programs from coloring programs, to advanced math skills.
I started off with him just adjusting the monitor and sitting on the keyboard. 4 months later, he's still doing some of that, but he's much more interested in the sounds, using the keyboard, and moving the mouse around. I have him using a cheap $20 trackball (the crappy one with the lights in it) and he still hasn't broken it.
I fully expect to have him doing basic tech support for his mom when he's 3. by the time he's in school, he'll probably be the only toddler with his own laptop.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
My youngest turns 3 next month, and he's already logging in with a username (his first name) and a password (one letter). I had them set up on XP for some time with no password, just click on the picture. His brother, who is 4 now, started right before he turned 3 and never had a problem logging in that way. He even taught me a few things about XP, like how to easily change the picture by your name.
When I got them started on Linux, they took right to it. They love it because there are so many games. I've got the flash plugin installed so that they can still play the online games at cartoonnetwork.com, looneytunes.com, etc., but they love tuxracer, too.
Little kids have no problems with any of this stuff. But, remember, these boys will sit there for 3 hours just clicking stuff to see what it does. The main problem with adults is lack of patience (or time) and an apprehensiveness about clicking on the unknown.
Do you have ESP?
We were all surprised when on the second day K.D. asked her mom to log out so that she could have her login. The obvious sense of power and control that having her own user ID gives her is beyond my ability to put into words.
Power? Control? Ummm... I guess this person doesn't have kids.
I have an (almost) 5 year old. "DADDY! I want to watch the Power Rangers! (Yellow Ranger is rather cute...) DADDY! I want to play Lego Racers! DADDY! I want to play Jedi's! (Star Wars: Jedi Academy).
So this kid learnd the word "log in"? My son knows something too:
Smart Kid
(yes, that's really my son. It was recorded about 2 years ago)
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Normal upgrades because a royal PITA because of dependency hell.. Thats one issue that definately needs to be addressed.
I can see it now, you buy a digital camera and it actually comes with linux drivers. You try to install it and it says:
XYZ is needed by ABC.
So you upgrade ABC and you get
123 and 456 need to be upgrade first, 456 needs 789, etc, etc.
Not accurate but you get the picture.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
A bit off topic, but I just had to listen to a similar argument used for circumsicion. He'll be different from every body else, so you better clip the tip of his penis off. I figure if he's that worried about fitting in when he's older he can make that decision himself.
Or the truly disturbing one.
"I want him to look like me when he's older".
I never understood that last one. Do the kids eventually say - "Uh no Dad, lets not compare units today."
Yeah, honey, just pop on out to the command line, and I'll show you how to configure TCP/IP, and then we can configure the device drivers! You only need to know a little bit of code...which I won't tell you, it is located online, super easy to find.
man rtfm
When translated, your post reads:
"Uh, I disagree with you, so you're automatically a troll! I'm headed over to someone's house to fix a Windows printer, so that one instance invalidates the 95% of the time that drivers automatically work under Windows, and somehow also invalidates that a lot of printers almost never work under Linux.
Oh, and Windows XP doesn't 'feel' right. I'm actually going to offer this as some sort of proof of my argument! I'll vaguely claim it eats itself alive!
You troll. How dare you point out the obvious--Windows is easier to configure than Linux!"
That VP of Marketing needs how to learn to run scanreg /fix after an F8 and getting a command prompt. People I have taught this too don't seem to call as much anymore. It fixes 90% of Win 95-98 problems. WinMe and XP, teach them about restore points. 2000, I have never had many calls on that one!
I belive you mean oxymoron? Or perhaps "literate" and "FattMattP" are Mutually Exclusive too? ;)
I keep hearing about this, but why?
I just leave stuff running, if I'm going to use it again, what do I gain by closing it.
The memory gets swapped out, shouldn't use any CPU cycles. Even the desk space shouldn't matter, minimize it, or throw it on another desktop.
For most applications I see this as about as outdated as rebooting.
I don't remember not having a computer in my home. I think we got our very first computer (some kind of Radio Shack Tandy machine... it used the TV as a monitor) when I was 4 or so (1984). It ran cartridges and spoke BASIC... by the time I was 6, I ran cartridges (in the machine) and I spoke BASIC (near fluently) and my decades long love affair with technology began.
The point is, it's not a case of the ability... anyone CAN use a computer... it's a matter of drive... fewer people really WANT to use the computer. For most people I know, the Web has replaced TV as their primary source of entertainment. Aside from a few games, very little else is done with their machines.
But the real question is when will us techies replace the TV repairman in all of those porn movies?? *grin*
The chains are broken
Loki is free
Ragnarok is at hand...
I hav a pIII 64 MB Ram, 20 gb HDD (4 partitions, c:2,rest around 5 each )comp , running win98se,winxp. I wanna try out linux--and i dont understand what suse ,kde,knoppix,mandrake & the like mean....
So can u help me out to quickly install linux on my machine (without removing win98 ),hassle free, and us try out linux...
[ i don think i hav ever seen/used linux machine, -- but i hav worked on a sco unix machine for a few days...)
Linux Enthusiasts???
Why does yahoo do this
I haven't had Windows on my computer in years. My daughter, who is now 5, has only used it for the past 2 years and can "surf" with the best of them. My 2 yr old daughter is now getting into it and they love the flash games on certain websites and other programs like Tuxracer and Tux Paint.
The 5 year old is already asking how the computers "talk" to each other and wanting to do a webpage. I'm proud..
Someday I'll get a "My child can hack your child's computer" bumper sticker...
This was pretty much my experience. Both my children started out on Linux, but this was before there was a GNOME desktop. I gave them an easy to use environment based on a very customized tvtwm and .xinitrc.
Years later, as teenagers, they mad ethe switch to GNOME with no trouble. I'm sure KDE would have been as easy for them.
My wife, who loathes computers, has learned to use Linux as easily as Windows. She detests them both equally. 8^)
Once upon a time, it took a fair bit of work to make any *nix easily usable by those not coversant with *nix. Today it's every bit as easy as Windows. Some things are easier, and some harder. But speaking both as the goto guy at home and the IT manager of a 350+ system network running Linux, MacOS, Solaris, W2K and XP, and occasionally HP-UX, Linux is doing at least as well as anything else (with some Mac exceptions) on the user front, and as good as anything from the computer and network management perspective.
I've found that my three year old son has learned spelling, phonics, fine motor control and problem solving at a far greater pace than his same-age cousin due to using a computer.
I bought my son a used computer when he was two as a present for potty training. He generally runs Windows because of all the educational games, but does use my Linux computer for some games.
My best tip is that your kid should learn to login themselves... it's a great way for them to learn to spell words. Change up the password every week or so and tell them which word it is. My kid learns to spell five or six letter words in a day or two.
Anyway, despite possible problems with creating a computer nerd with no social life, I think two and three year olds should always have a computer available to them. Just limit the time they spend on it.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
It is about refuting the claim that Linux is "hard" to use.
It didn't refute anything. Nobody's going to buy that Linux is magically not hard to use simply because someone took the time to set it up for someone so it was easy.
What if you don't have someone to set it up for you? I'm sorry, but I've been using Linux since the mid-90s, and I've taken days and weeks out of my time to set things up sometimes. Even Eric Raymond had trouble setting up a printer...remember?
All the article showed is that, as long as you make sure nothing will ever need to be set up or anything, you can have a 4-year-old use one of Linux's GUIs. This is true of any operating system.
This girl will probably use linux for the rest of her life.
Why? All she's done is used a Windows-alike GUI. If anything, she'll switch to Windows when she wants the apps her friends are using (and wants to play The Sims 5), and when she wants to connect to a shared printer or install a soundcard...
...so what?
Seriously, I don't see how this proved anything other than someone let a 4-year-old point and click one of Linux's GUIs, as though that proved that all of Linux was easy...nobody is gonna buy that.
Try having her install a kid's game sometime...my 5-year-old knows how to insert the CD, click "Next", etc. I'd love to see a 4-year-old mess with RPM package managers...
Hey, they are not a troll. The parent poster is incorrect about bush, but they are not a troll, simply an idiot.
Seriously, use IceWM or some other lightweight window manager. It will make all the difference. I got a free P90 laptop, and it is unusable with KDE on it, but IceWM makes it work. Not all that fast, mind you, it is still a P90. But it is usable.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
http://rrfn.hackerstavern.com/Wallpapers/linux-chi ck2.jpg
Then the best option is a Mac, then perhaps Windows and Linux in a tie for second, IMHO...
Yes, Linux systems can have issues during install, config and so on. However I find the issues to be not much different than with Windows. In both platforms, setting up a local printer is trivial--a smart 4-year-old could probably do it (in Linux certain apps have issues using the printer more than in windows I suppose). Setting up a NETWORK printer in Win OR Linux can potentially cause grief.
Setting up a network I found was actually EASIER in Linux until Win2k and later (I remember when you even looked at network settings the wrong way WinNT and 9x wanted to reboot). The issues are the same with both. The one point you make that is true is the wireless networking issue--MS is further ahead there since drivers are more readily available (mostly for "political" issues rather than technical). However it's still common for Windows users to just plug everything in and turn it on--and have wireless networking completely unsecure, then there is a completely DIFFERENT set of problems. I suppose a good side effect of being troublesome to set up in Linux is that the users that manage to get it working are tech-savvy enough to know the importance of setting up a SECURE wireless connection.
In my experience recently, I've found that newbies get their PCs with XP pre-installed, they plug it all in and everything "just works"...for about a week. By then (because they didn't run windows update to patch everything right away) several exploits/worms/spywares will have infested the system and various other freeware (as in beer)/demoware/adware and other cruft will slow their shiney new 2.4GHz P4 to a 386-like crawl. Linux and Mac systems of course are much less vulnerable. Once you set them up they "just work" and STAY that way so even a four year old can play with it and grandma can send her emails.
Is Windows easier to "know" and set up? perhaps in some ways. Easier to maintain and keep healthy? HELL NO. If you want that get Linux, and if you also want "easy too know", spend a bit more and get a Mac system.
INSIGHTHFUL? What the FUCK are you mods smoking today?
That's solid TCO for you!
I know a guy who "has forgotten more about how Windows works than I'll ever learn". He thought I was nuts about being so trigger-happy with re-installs until I asked him two questions:
It's cool to know lots about Windows and be able to fix it the "right" way. But it's often much more expensive to work through problems than to just do a clean installation.
Conclusion: Use your Windows knowledge to blow time on your own systems; Don't waste the client's money.
This can be changed in XP with regedit : HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Command Processor
Create/edit the binary value named "PathCompletionChar" to activate directory auto complete, or "CompletionChar" for file auto complete.
set it to
Je n'ai pas d'avenir Je n'ai qu'un destin Celui de n'être qu'un souvenir C'est pour demain
"On the contrary, OS X has never given me any of these types of trouble. Got a new printer? Plug it in"
I see that you qualified it with "new printer". If you have a 3 or so year old perfectly good printer lying around, you have to go out and buy a damn dongle to plug it in because Macintoshes have lacked standard printer ports for years. Yet, almost all of the newest PC's (whether they have Windows or not) have standard printer ports along with the USB ports.
The same goes for standard serial devices
Didn't think so.
Actually I don't think that all the users are dumb.
I do however think that Microsoft has encouraged that mindset. They first gave the world an OS that was limited, and crashed far more than what the alternatives demonstrated it needed to be. This of course had two effects. One it frustrated users who needed to get work done, and it created the perception that computers are more fragile than we know they are. (Oh no! I broke the computer.) Second Microsoft created a "we know better than you" dependency. Ever wonder what happens to people who aren't encouraged to use their own faculties? MS products are a demonstration of what happens, were people are apathetic to any kind of learning (plus the pavlov response of "change this and you might break it"). Throw in the usual stuff (lock-in, too hard to get out, mass-brainwashing "MS is the one true way"), and you see why all the alternatives (no matter how good) have had it rough. So no the users aren't dumb, it's just that no one has set high expectations for them (discouraged it, even), and that kind of trap is hard to get out of (just look at what welfare has done to the social fabric).
Its the installation, configuration and maintenance. The article isn't really even about Linux its about a few friendly applications and the logon feature. I converted my mother over to Linux a couple years ago and currently my wife has been using it for a little over 2 years (babe in tuxland).
Its never been the day to do that causes problems, it installing new hardware, needing to change configurations, its all the little things people do in Windows and with their Apples everyday that quickly become monsterous with a Linux distro.
Managing a Linux workstation still requires a level tolerance and patience that the average computer user doesn't/shouldn't have. I use it because I love using it, but there are times I'd like to throw the whole box straight out the livingroom window.
Quack, quack.
So, K.D.'s grandfather is married to her mother? WTF?
"The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me
"But to me, the key thing is that when I have no clue how to accomplish something on Windows, I can usually start poking around the menus and options and figure it out without having to hit Google. With Linux, I sometimes have no idea where to even start, and I'm not a Linux newbie."
That's assuming there's a discernable link between those options and menu's, and the underlying problem.
The other problem's with you post can be summed up as.
Hard==Lack of knowledge
vs
Hard==Have the knowledge AND I have to do the hokey pokey, walk on my hands, and drink a glass of water.
There is a difference, and it is an important one.
"Windows is much easier to administer than is a Linux box."
That depends on what you have to "administer (goals and problems)" staying within the boundaries of what the programmer coud see
As far as your personal experience of having to do more to get things accomplished. That practically begs the issue of why are you changing things so much? At least with linux once you do something, it doesn't spontaniously break on you.
No it is not a double standard. It is the truth.
Anything microsoft does, and we all know this by now, is only intended to increase the wealth of its board, directors, etc. Not to benefit its users.
Anything done by FOSS is intended to promote and protect my, your, and everybody's freedom - and ironic as it is, that also includes butt-head balmer and scott mcnoodle.
And what freedom is that? Freedom from monopolists
because the DOJ certainly dont protect us from them!
What profit can be made by the "KD" story just posted anyway?
You've been doing it for 10 years. If you've been using Linux or Windows for 10 days I'd say you are in better shape with Windows. Especially given theres more likely to be a Windows user living next door to you than there is to be a single Linux user in your entire town. (yes, yes, but most people you mention 'newsgroups' or mailing lists to will just stare back blankly. much less actually know how to get help via one).
Sure it's easy enough to get a 3 year old to use Linux... I wonder how many people have been able to get their grandparents to use Linux.
It seems like a great challenge because grandparents are filled with preconceived notions about computers being hard to use, viruses, technology, etc.
Hey man relax...have a couple of prozacs.
...
The whole point of the article is that contrary
to popular opinion, at least that opinion which is promulgated, paid for, and pushed by microsoft,
Linux is not a horrible dirty communistic anti-american viral alien.
Rather even a baby/child can use it and have fun with it.
Just remember there are only two differences between FOSS and Proprietary software.
and these are in order of importance:
#1 - FOSS stuff is free and Prop. stuff is not.
and
#2 - duh I can't remember #2
I also really missed filename completion when I went from UNIX to DOS in the early '90s (I also missed aliases to convert "ls" into "dir" :-). I found a product called 4DOS, which is still available as 4NT (and other O/S). This is a very nice shell program; I can't say if it is the best choice, but it's good enough.
http://www.jpsoft.com/
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Linux-minded dad strips down a Linux desktop to the bare essentials - then says "Look Linux is easy to use!"
Give me a fucking break.
Some (limited) of what you say has merit...but for the most part not...Most people in this country need to work 2+ jobs just to make ends meet for 1 person...with cost of living (rent, heat, elec, food - absolute necessities) deducted from his pay the average guy making minimum wage makes about $-300/mo. (assuming one job, 40 per week)...Add one child (single parent) and that figure changes drastically...in order to afford rent (without public assist.) That person has to work approx. 100+ hours per week. there's only 168 in a week...when does he have time to sleep let alone see his/her kid. I know...I went from $35/hr with a partner also making $1000 a week to being a single dad trying to make ends meet when I got laid off and she left. That left me trying to find work while paying all the same bills...Sure I have some nice stuff now...but I can no longer afford even the simplest pleasures that I used to. Coffe in the morning has become an expendable luxury item. This book (I currently work at a B&N) is quite the eye opener for the average person making enough to pay the mortgage/rent in one week (single income or dual income).
NIckel & Dimed
Obviously it depends on some degree where you live, but I've lived all over the US and wherever the cost of living is low that means there are approx 2 jobs and they both pay crap. The cost of living has increased at a pace not equalled by earnings. Before Nixon you could buy a house with a years salary (modest) and a car with a months salary (again modest). Now the average person spends about a years salary on a car and 5-10 years salary on a house...if they can afford the down. It's a lot harder than it used to be...I don't like it when people assume that everyone spends beyond their means...
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
Either that or you're lying.
Why does everyone even try to bring up the simplicity competition, when even that is so subjective. With Kids, things don't always have to 'make sense' where to click. Everybody needs a little (or a lot) of guidance starting computers. And after that, a little time to gain their muscle memory. So many people will say, Mac is easier, Linux isn't there yet, Windows is satan. Most people learn tasks on a computer a little at a time. I work at a software company and i train my company's sales reps. Good software gets challenged all the time because people don't 'get it' the first time they see it. I'm sorry, if you want people to get it so quickly, then prepare to remove some functionality. I love my atari 2600, but I can't do much with it, even though it's simple. We are balancing between a ton of easy devices that do one thing good, or using 1 complicated device (interface) that does it all. So you want clutter on this end, or on that end? plug and play is great, makes sense. I'd say it's a necessary focus to get linux to top dog status. But I've gotta say, if I can download some software for free, and install it on as many machines as I want, that is much easier to me, than than having to save up all the money for each copy like I would with Mac or Windows. I like not having break laws to get things done. If you run through mechanicals a few times, it gets easy. whether gui or command line.
...::----::...
I am in no way affiliated with this sig.
IAAAP (I am also a parent)
I always hated when people would "bore me to death" with their kid stories. So as a parent, I *try* (not always successfully) to not bore other people. But it's hard. I don't know why that is. Because even as a parent, I'm still bored to tears by other people's kid stories. But I still have an insatiable desire to pass along *my* kid stories.
It's also true that parents think they have the smartest kid in the world. My sister and I almost can't even be civil with each other any more because I always feel like she is trying to "1 up" me with how much of a genius her kid is. Personally, I think he has a learning deficiency.
Ah, if only that were true. Do you expect people to raise children in isolation? People live in a social matrix. You can only teach your kids so much before they go out into the world and meet others. You can try to engineer your neighbors, censor intrusive media, and homeschool your kids, but the stupidity of other people and the nastiness of the world is going to creep in through the slighest flaw in your shield.
You can try to raise your children ideally, but be prepared for the time when they learn all the things you do not want them to learn, and then throw it in your when they start to differeniate themselves from you.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Damn, of course the real linux chicks can't take the load ;)
Who's got a .torrent?
-- In Soviet Russia, radio listens to YOU!
We'll when you basically have to "fix" everything in Linux to get it to work right in the first place, you get a lot of practice at it.
And that is still easier than what you have to do on Linux, where you have to hunt down all of the support libraries before you can make your program.
Installing a driver for that new wireless card? On MS Windows: click here, click there, click everywhere, futz with wizards for five minutes, maybe it works. On Linux: cp, insmod, ifconfig, working.Having a GUI configuration app and spending 5 minutes with it takes a lot shorter than the time it took you to figure out what commands to run in the first place...or did you just "know" to type those commands? Good one.
Your last comment so obviously lacks merit that I will not even attempt a reply, except to say that you are a blithering idiot. Have a nice day.
The article is a Troll.
And, that's all you would need for any of these problems, none of that Norton crap is worth a dime.
Uh... i'm pretty sure the poster wanted people to react to the statement "2000 election - bush gets more votes in florida." because, i hope you remember, bush *didn't* get more votes... the whole rigged election thing...
The real difference is that it's easier to secure files in Windows than having to understand how the hell to use chmod and what '777' means.
Somebody didn't RTF subject....
Oh yes, stating simple facts makes me a troll. I know a lot of people much smarter than I who have had the same types of problems with wireless cards--but all just different enough to not be able to help each other. Gotta love the slashbots.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
My One year old loves ChildsPlay (gentooers: emerge childsplay)
He moves the trackball around and randomly clicks. He loves it when he actually clicks an animal and it makes noise.
I feel more comfortable giving my son access to my Linux box than I do giving him access to his Mother's Windows machine - even though I have more important data on the machine. I know that I can easily lock down his desktop and prevent access to devices / applications that he doesn't need. I could probably do the same in Windows XP, but I know that Windows wasn't designed, from the ground up, with multiple users in mind. It just makes more sense.
90% of everything is crap. Also, crap is relative.
This took me all of 5 hours and I used all packaged software...I didn't have to even look at a command line or know how to use the "make" command.
You just can't do this with Linux, unless you've spent a lot of time figuring it out already.
I'm sorry but a house full of kids with all Linux *is* bizarro world because it's not normal. All of their friends use Windows, all the good games come out for Windows, and all the good professionally written, professionally packaged, and easily installed software is written for Windows.http://forum.microsuck.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi? ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001003
No nudity, but a couple of the images are a little racy (e.g., TUX image "strategically" pasted).
"2000 election - bush gets more votes in florida." because, i hope you remember, bush *didn't* get more votes... the whole rigged election thing..."
Every time votes were counted, Bush won. The sore losers attempted to rig the election by counting voteless ballots as "votes for Gore" and by giving him the Buchanan votes, but the tamperers lost and the voters won.
Installing Windows software consists of my clicking "Next" for a little while. Installing Linux software goes something like this (taken from the MythTV user guide):
What's so interesting about a woman using a hemoroid treatment?
My parents raised *7* of us children on 1 chemistry professor's salary at a 2 year college in central Utah. (Utah is NOT known for high educator salaries.) None of us went hungry. Since then I've been extremely sceptical of people who "need" 2 salaries to "get by".
This gives the word "Script Kiddie" a whole new meaning..
I suspect you probably paid lots of dollars for your MCSE training, please don't take it too hard, but yes... You're clueless.
You said "all the good games come out for Windows", so I pointed out one hot-off-the-shelves game rather than listing every game that's played in linux. I didn't realize I was dealing with clueless moron that can't google before he spews nonsense, so here's a nicely formatted list of games that run under linux:
http://icculus.org/lgfaq/gamelist.php
Most clue-burdened linux users don't install from raw sourcecode, so your mythtv install example isn't really applicable. Open source software developers usually don't like to provide a package for every fricking linux distro out there, so they provide the source. The typical user installs packages via the package manager that their distro employs. Assuming the correct software sources are utilized, here's what a typical user might do to install mythtv:
Mandrake users: urpmi mythtv
Gentoo users: emerge mythtv
Debian user: apt-get install mythtv
If the above term "software sources" confuses you, consider it analagous to "best buy" for a windows user such as yourself, minus the driving, money, and bloatware.
Trust me, I know how to do this stuff in Windows. I did it from windows 3.1 forward, I did it in DOS, I did it in OS2, I did it on C64, Apple II, Timex sinclair, and now I do it in Linux. I don't the impression, however, that you've ever really given linux a chance or ever hung out with any real live linux users. It just aint that hard. You may be a bonafide windows guru, but when that prompt in front of you is a bash prompt you are absolutely clueless. Stick to what you know.
Lookout, the family's gonna have fun tonight!
Trust me, I know how to do this stuff in Windows...but when that prompt in front of you is a bash prompt you are absolutely clueless. Stick to what you know.Gee, I can program the sh*t out of C/C++ but yeah, that bash prompt is soooo intimidating ;)
Now, you wouldn't perhaps be lying by saying that all you have to do to get a Linux app installed is to type one command would you?? Because I've done plenty of Linux software installs and there is a little more to it than that. Editing numerous config files comes to mind...
..back in the day. Our first computer was a 386 that ran dos and intially a gui called dosshell.
.exe needed to execute the game.
The way my father set it up was to put all the games on floppy disks, then write on the disk's label the filename of the
Then, he simply taught me to switch to the A: drive, type the filename, and hit enter. I could then enjoy all the games I wanted when the computer was free.
Later, of course, he turned dosshell back on so I could get a feel for mouse work, but that initial dos introduction to computers certainly put me ahead of many of my classmates in later years.
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
The resources we're used to completely change our thought processes. It's funny to watch movies as recently as from the 80's when the hero is stranded somewhere and, wait, why doesn't he just use his cell ph.....oh, yeah!
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Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton
K.D. had watched her mom, my wife...
yeah, that's just wrong...
My father, a few weeks before dying, told me that all the money he made was not enough compensation for all the time he did not spend with us.
I have learnt from that (that is why we have brains, don't we?) and in spite of social pressures I have changed my life accordingly (I would be damned if I work a single minute of overtime or weekends specialy without compensation). Doing fine, thanks.
The lessons are there for all to learn, to each one his own.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
...Remember that a lot of good Open Source software (like my Tux Paint, for example ;^) ) do run outside of Linux.
:^)
:^)
TP runs on Mac OS X, pretty much all 32-bit versions of Windows, BeOS, BSDs, Solaris... etc.
What I've always wanted, though, was a Mac OS classic version. There are still plenty of schools who have older Apple hardware, and just can't use OS X. No reason that should keep them from running Tux Paint!!!
typical right-wing lies. yawn.
"the voters won," all right. and look what kind of world you cheating assholes "won" for your grandchildren. way to go republican liars! way to go bush, rumsfeld, cheney, rove, rice. the entire world is in debt to you. congratulations on rigging the election for what has turned out to be the most hated U.S. president in history. nixon's heirs must be relieved, at least.
**I still don't like Windows XP verry well. It just doesn't feel right. Everything is so fucking hard to get done in that stupid practically-windows-only environment, with a command prompt that won't auto-complete! Why is it 2004 and DOS won't auto-complete?! Morons.**
... you are not as smart as you think that you are .
if you are unable to get Windows Xp command line to auto complete for you ( it basicly does it out of the box )
"typical right-wing lies. yawn."
'Tis all true. It is not a matter of right-wing opinion: it is the actual historic record.
""the voters won," all right"
True. The actual vote counts stood.
"congratulations on rigging the election"
Winning by earning the popular vote in enough states to win the electoral college is not "rigging". If it is, then Clinton rigged the election: twice.
"turned out to be the most hated U.S. president in history"
No, his negatives have never gotten that low.
From a note I sent to the author of the article:
My two daughters (now 8 and 10) have also used Linux since they were tiny (3-4 years old).
One change that I made to the normal system install was to modify the display manager (gdm/kdm) to enable multiple X sessions on different virtual terminals. We ran four different X servers -- one each on VT7 through VT10. Each of these VT's was assigned to a member of the family, so that we could each login and use the system even if another family member had not logged out.
Thus, regardless of who was logged in, I could switch to my VT by pressing Ctrl-Alt-F7 and login there. If I got tied up with a phone call, my wife could then press Ctrl-Alt-F8 to switch to her VT and login there, without disturbing any applications which I had running. I could later switch back to my session on VT7 with Ctrl-Alt-F7. Likewise my two girls had VT9 and VT10.
(This is set up with a relatively minor change in the Xservers file (for xdm/kdm) or gdm.conf file (for gdm)).
I would have continued that practice, except that when I recently upgraded my home system, I added two additional keyboard/mouse/monitor setups. Thus we now have a single PC that supports three simultaneous users (using Backstreet Ruby; here is a description of the setup). For our family needs, this is easier to administer and uses less power than a 3-machine LAN while still providing plenty of performance.
What's the deal here?
I thought it was normal for a toddler to use it.
My daughter uses RH8 since she was four and a half: She could start the computer, login, open the browser, check into those dollie.com sites and voila!
hmm.. I should have made an article then and get some bucks...
"way to go bush, rumsfeld, cheney, rove, rice. the entire world is in debt to you. congratulations on [winning] the election for what has turned out to be the most hated U.S. president in history."
Yes, way to go. Bush has led the charge and is dealing with the root causes of terrorism. He has ignored the lies of the pro-Saddam "anti-war" marchers and engaged in informed policiy decisions. He has earned the hatred of the terrorists, and it is not hard to understand why.
...is if Micheal Jackson is the only reader.
"EeeeeHooooo.....come on little girl, everyone knows strangers have the best candy...."
Today's AP poll numbers: "Bush was backed by 45 percent of voters and Kerry by 44 percent"
If Bush is "the most hated U.S. president in history", then Kerry, who is hated more, is bound to top this.
"and that's not the worst of her crimes"
OK. Tell me what crimes Kathleen Harris committed. Unless you are making stuff up and being slanderous, you'd better be able to back it up with criminal charge information and conviction information.
(You won't find any, of course, because she committed no crime. The only accusations you get are from those who oppose her just because of her political party.)
Let's check with Florida. If Jeb Bush really did "disenfranchise" them by making sure their votes were counted, they would hate him, right? Instead, when the re-election bid came up, the voters gave Jeb a landslide victory.
"Every time votes were counted, Bush won."
You are soooo wrong! Look at all the media recounts that were done after 2000. Bush lost according to almost every one of them.
What a jerk!
"you might even try a web search. "katherine harris crimes" "
I did that on Google. Came up with 0 hits.
Then, I searched on "kathleen harris" crimes. Came up with more hits. The first two were not even relevant (about her), The third was by a Democrat Party commentator. The rest of the links in the first page are mostly not relevant (wrong Kathleen, or wrong "crimes"). But there is another one with false accusations from Marxists. All told, 188 hits, of which many have nothing to do with the subject you mentioned.
In contrast, a search on "bill clinton" crimes comes up with 147,000 hits.
Not terribly relevant, but it does coincide a little with the fact that Clinton was charged with a crime or two and convicted of one. Kathleen Harris, in contrast, was never seriously accused, charged, or convicted. In other words, Clinton committed a crime and Harris committed none.
"and guess what: one doesn't have to be charged with or convicted of anything to have broken the law."
Using your logic, that having blog bloviators accuse you of crimes means you are guilty, I guess, yes, she is guilty (and Clinton is 720 times as guilty).
"Al Gore" crimes comes up with 72,000 hits compared to Harris' 1800. Using your standards, this means that Gore is a much worse criminal than Harris.
You are soooo wrong! Look at all the media recounts that were done after 2000
The first ones I found showed Gore losing.
Read this cnn account of two major newspaper "media counts". Neither paper is considered to be conservative. Gore loses in every single count of votes.
"FOX NEWS IS NOT MODERATE. BILL O'REILLY IS NOT MODERATE."
Lies in all caps are still lies. Both of these represent the center of American politics, lying between the right (Bush, Limbaugh, etc) and the left (Kerry, Franken, etc). Fox News presents both sides in balance, and O'Reilly is the rare "angry moderate" who bashes Bush, Dean, Cheney, and Hillary equally.
CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC are left-wing. While the right-wing dominates AM radio, there is no right-wing TV news network.
"if you think bush or murdoch or fox or o'reilly are moderate, that means that you are one of the following"
Incorrect again. My correct statement means I know what I am talking about, and have wide experience in media analysis.
Here's a question for you: Which media magnate gave Michael Moore his own show on a prime time major network slot for 2 years? Answer: Murdoch. (If he were a right-wing kook, would he do that?)
"the republican party - fighting for the rights of bitter fat white men everywhere."
Now you are showing that you are nothing but a racist. Ted Kennedy, perhaps the most famous bitter fat white man in the country, is not even a republican. It only shows that racists like you have no idea what they are talking about.
I think you mean from the apt-beget department.
Once Linux becomes as big as Windows is, the popularity will entice all the wormsmiths to move from Windows over to Linux, and you'll have the same problem all over again.
Of course most distros uses KDE or Gnome by default. But it's not that hard to configure a different desktop. Mandrake even lets you choose a different one every time you log in.