Hi - I represent the Methuselah Foundation, the recipient of the donation. For clarification, the donation does not go to the Mprize fund. it will be used primarily to support early stage research to repair the damage that occurs during normal metabolism in the mitochondria.
In part, the Methuselah Foundation was originally named with a tip of the hat to Heinlein:-)
Aging causes the horrific scandal of the involuntary incarceration (nursing homes) of everyone who survives early death for no other reason than they had the bad taste to grow old. Wear can be repaired with research. Let's focus on their (soon our) needs and the contributions they could make with their collective wisdom of the ages. Was it immoral or selfish to invent vaccines that extend lifespan? Some thought so at the time...I for one am glad to have had a polio vaccine.
This effort is NOT about living forever at all - it's simply the logical extension of things like reading glasses, hearing aids, hip replacements, knee replacements, laser surgery, sanitation... only at the cellular level.
In the early 1900's families of 8 - 15 were very typical and birth control was a felony punishable by imprisonment. Because of the wretched conditions and premature deaths this caused, the movement to limit the size of families for the sake of better health, welfare and education of all was undertaken. Today, no one goes to jail for practicing birth control. Instead, those couples that decide to have 8-15 children are frowned upon. Conclusion: The world is better off by providing choices rather than unhealthy inevitabilities.
A huge concern of New Yorkers in the late 1800's was how they were going to avoid drowning and suffocating from all the horse manure. Just then, the automobile hit the scene and was hailed as a Godsend because it used environmentally friendly oil...and thus the mass extinction of New York from manure strangulation was averted. Today oil in the environmental crosshairs - and this too will be solved...and then one day that solution may be the source of a terrible crisis 100 years from now - which will be solved...and so it is going with repair of aging. Huge social and fiscal problems will be solved...and new challenges will arise - and be solved in their turn. Should those who were suffering and dying from manure pollution have been denied the cleaner oil because 100 years hence it would turn out to be a problem?
When the day comes when there's an inexpensive treatment that could shave 5 or 10 years of wear and tear from your loved ones - will you tell them it's immoral and try to stop them? Wouldn't that then be an incomprehensible - even criminal act?
This is EXACTLY why the Mprize (Methuselah Mouse Prize: www.mprize.org ) was started. I am so tired of seeing press releases that raise hopes and go nowhere. Engineering please! Results please!
Nope. The mice in the experiment which won the recent Rejuventation M Prize (www.mprize.org)awarded to Dr. Stephen Spinder had far fewer cancers at a given age and the cancers happened much later than they would have without the award winning intervention.
The effort will eliminate cancer as a happy side effect of the longevity research.
Agreed. The real capital is knowledge reduced to useful innovation. This is accelerating geometrically. This creates deflation - most of the cost in stuff purchased in the developed world is expended in advertising, distribution costs, taxes and fashion.
When I was young. All bedsheets were a single color, wore out in 6 months and ripped when you got in bed. That never happens now. When technology made sheets last forever the sheet business almost went down the drain...until they got the idea to make bedsheets fashionable. Now, you needed to color coordinate, accessorize and buy them for newlyweds etc.
Everything that a society was willing to kill for eventually becomes free. Salt, spices, trees, food...starts expensive - ends free. Diamonds are only expensive due to worldwide monopoly - but that will end too. If you live to be over 200, you will eventually modify your behavior based on these insights and stop worrying so much. I'm already doing it in fact. I've decided to not buy a $3,500 60 inch LCD HD TV system because I know I can have it 5 years from now for $350. After that I'll have IMAX in my lenses:-)
If my 80 year old mother had been born 20 years earlier she would have died of lung cancer, breast cancer, diabetes, decrepitude and falls prevented by a knee replacement. In her particular case, she's survived an additional 20 years so far due to medical technology and surgery.
Longevity is an INDIVIDUAL sport...averages are irrelevant if you're dead. Technology and research MATTER.
hmmm-as I understand it, survival of the fittest causes reproduction of the fittest. Therefore from this point of view there's very little selection pressure to put mitochondrial genes in the nucleus if the gene carrier (us) is able to live long enough to reproduce just fine without the mod. So, there is no reproductive survival pressure to promote longevity at the molecular level. By the way, it makes good sense to read the man's papers before you call someone a charlatan. That's what real scientists would do eh?
Without a doubt, it's the visionary drive of Peter Diamandis, Gregg Maryniak and the donors and volunteers at the Xprize Foundation that are the real heroes in this story. History may footnote them, but I for one won't ever forget their contributions to get things moving again.
Done that:-)
Everything old is new again. I founded Worlds Inc. and Ron Britvich was the genius coder of ActiveWorlds which started along with Worldschat(prematurely it turns out) the 3d virtual worlds walking around avatar thing.
It turns out that the main problem with the concept is that it is less like a living world and more like "neutron bomb world"...tons of buildings and constructs, but nothing to do there. There were two main lessons learned. First, the aesthetics must be of Movie quality which we now have with the PS2 and XBoxes of the world. The second lesson is that there must be SCARCITY of land (hong kong and manhatten) creating reeflike ecologies/economies rather than North Dakota land...land as far as infinity and nothing to do and no way to find anything interesting.
Gotta have VoIP and streaming video and the ability to drive up to a 2d object (like a webpage) and enter standard 2d "driving mode" and then back away into the Vworld again. That way you could have dozens of IE screens available and drive up to them and make'em active. You could also have a whole crowd with you there...
P.S. Current project is www.methuselahmouse.org - the prize to reverse mouse aging. I'm probably early with this too, but unlike worlds, we NEED to start asap - not getting any younger - YET:-)
We need to keep the aging engineering genii such as Rutan going for quite a bit longer...ergo - The Methuselah Mouse Prize for the reveral of human aging - www.methuselahmouse.org
From the fawning respect dept:
This is bar none the most important software ever created. I have kept a complete and pristine copy of a very early Apple version...it's the only software I felt was worth keeping along with my unopened bottle of Royal Wedding (chuck&di) preserve 25 year old Glen Grant single malt scotch. I'll probably open them both for my daugher's wedding:-)
Good point, and we're aware of this. We are perfectly happy with the idea that the bat genes would be compared with the mouse genes to identify which genes "make the difference", and if the bat genes could make the mouse live longer. No problem (unless of course the mice get loose and take over the world because they live too long now:-)
The winning mice must be healthy and vibrant - as specified on standardized scientific tests. That's one of the reasons to use this particular species of mouse. You can score their relative health, vigor and even intelligence relative to young mice. aMAZEing eh?
Dave Gobel - Chairman The Methuselah Foundation
Our plan is to be around due to the success of the prize. We would then be amused that the relativistic mouse would have no owners due to their being dead - even if the mouse was "old", the prize money would have been awarded already. You can't win the longitude prize anymore...Mr. Harrison and his son already walked away with the money.
We are looking to incent the extension of the healthy and vigorous lifespan of mice. We are sensitive to the issue of animal treatment. We have great reverence for life - that is a key motivation for the prize series. dave
Even the religious would be in synch with this if they read about Methuselah etc. They would find that folks had children much later than now. Just what you'd expect...funny eh? And, I think it's true that the longer the lifespan in the west, the later the average date for the first birth...hmmm
Hi folks,
As one of the organizers, here's an answer to the question about transplanting mouse ears to game the system. We are looking at providing custom engineered mus musculus mice that contain a special secret recipe that guarantees authenticity.
FYI, around 70% of mus musculus die of Cancer...you might think of this competition as a "two-fer". To make a mouse that's two years old already survive for 4 or 5 years, you MUST prevent the cancer in the already aged rat.
Re:Immortality - We're seeking to provide lots more healthy tomorrows - I hate leaving movies in the middle:-)...and...I LOVE Pinky and the Brain!
Dave Gobel
The Methuselah Foundation (www.methuselahmouse.org) has already started a prize fund to incent competition to reverse mouse aging. It's already awarded its first prize to a mouse that lived ~180 human equivalent years. Four preeminent life extension researchers have already signed up to compete.
By the way, for those who say sooner or later, you'll get hit by a train, by the time you live 200 years from now, I wonder if anyone will remember what trains were etc. etc. (think diamandoid skin)
Cheers!
activeworlds.com and worlds.com
on
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Everything old is new again. I founded Worlds Inc. which started (prematurely it turns out) the 3d virtual worlds walking around avatar thing.
Activeworlds was designed without knowledge of snowcrash, but was certainly synchronous with that novel. It turns out that the main problem with the concept is that it is less like a living world and more like "neutron bomb world"...tons of buildings and constructs, but nothing to do there.
There were two main lessons learned. First, the aesthetics must be of Movie quality which we now have with the PS2 and XBoxes of the world. The second lesson is that there must be SCARCITY of land (hong kong and manhatten) creating reeflike ecologies/economies rather than North Dakota land...land as far as infinity and nothing to do and no way to find anything interesting.
Hmmm - I wonder if it's time to take another run at the concept
Cheers,
David Gobel
If knowledge is infinite, then I MUST be infinitely ignorant
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Hi - I represent the Methuselah Foundation, the recipient of the donation. For clarification, the donation does not go to the Mprize fund. it will be used primarily to support early stage research to repair the damage that occurs during normal metabolism in the mitochondria.
:-)
In part, the Methuselah Foundation was originally named with a tip of the hat to Heinlein
Aging causes the horrific scandal of the involuntary incarceration (nursing homes) of everyone who survives early death for no other reason than they had the bad taste to grow old. Wear can be repaired with research. Let's focus on their (soon our) needs and the contributions they could make with their collective wisdom of the ages. Was it immoral or selfish to invent vaccines that extend lifespan? Some thought so at the time...I for one am glad to have had a polio vaccine.
This effort is NOT about living forever at all - it's simply the logical extension of things like reading glasses, hearing aids, hip replacements, knee replacements, laser surgery, sanitation... only at the cellular level.
In the early 1900's families of 8 - 15 were very typical and birth control was a felony punishable by imprisonment. Because of the wretched conditions and premature deaths this caused, the movement to limit the size of families for the sake of better health, welfare and education of all was undertaken. Today, no one goes to jail for practicing birth control. Instead, those couples that decide to have 8-15 children are frowned upon. Conclusion: The world is better off by providing choices rather than unhealthy inevitabilities.
A huge concern of New Yorkers in the late 1800's was how they were going to avoid drowning and suffocating from all the horse manure. Just then, the automobile hit the scene and was hailed as a Godsend because it used environmentally friendly oil...and thus the mass extinction of New York from manure strangulation was averted. Today oil in the environmental crosshairs - and this too will be solved...and then one day that solution may be the source of a terrible crisis 100 years from now - which will be solved...and so it is going with repair of aging. Huge social and fiscal problems will be solved...and new challenges will arise - and be solved in their turn. Should those who were suffering and dying from manure pollution have been denied the cleaner oil because 100 years hence it would turn out to be a problem?
When the day comes when there's an inexpensive treatment that could shave 5 or 10 years of wear and tear from your loved ones - will you tell them it's immoral and try to stop them? Wouldn't that then be an incomprehensible - even criminal act?
This is EXACTLY why the Mprize (Methuselah Mouse Prize: www.mprize.org ) was started. I am so tired of seeing press releases that raise hopes and go nowhere. Engineering please! Results please!
Nope. The mice in the experiment which won the recent Rejuventation M Prize (www.mprize.org)awarded to Dr. Stephen Spinder had far fewer cancers at a given age and the cancers happened much later than they would have without the award winning intervention. The effort will eliminate cancer as a happy side effect of the longevity research.
Agreed. The real capital is knowledge reduced to useful innovation. This is accelerating geometrically. This creates deflation - most of the cost in stuff purchased in the developed world is expended in advertising, distribution costs, taxes and fashion. When I was young. All bedsheets were a single color, wore out in 6 months and ripped when you got in bed. That never happens now. When technology made sheets last forever the sheet business almost went down the drain...until they got the idea to make bedsheets fashionable. Now, you needed to color coordinate, accessorize and buy them for newlyweds etc. Everything that a society was willing to kill for eventually becomes free. Salt, spices, trees, food...starts expensive - ends free. Diamonds are only expensive due to worldwide monopoly - but that will end too. If you live to be over 200, you will eventually modify your behavior based on these insights and stop worrying so much. I'm already doing it in fact. I've decided to not buy a $3,500 60 inch LCD HD TV system because I know I can have it 5 years from now for $350. After that I'll have IMAX in my lenses :-)
If my 80 year old mother had been born 20 years earlier she would have died of lung cancer, breast cancer, diabetes, decrepitude and falls prevented by a knee replacement. In her particular case, she's survived an additional 20 years so far due to medical technology and surgery. Longevity is an INDIVIDUAL sport...averages are irrelevant if you're dead. Technology and research MATTER.
hmmm-as I understand it, survival of the fittest causes reproduction of the fittest. Therefore from this point of view there's very little selection pressure to put mitochondrial genes in the nucleus if the gene carrier (us) is able to live long enough to reproduce just fine without the mod. So, there is no reproductive survival pressure to promote longevity at the molecular level. By the way, it makes good sense to read the man's papers before you call someone a charlatan. That's what real scientists would do eh?
Without a doubt, it's the visionary drive of Peter Diamandis, Gregg Maryniak and the donors and volunteers at the Xprize Foundation that are the real heroes in this story. History may footnote them, but I for one won't ever forget their contributions to get things moving again.
Done that :-)
Everything old is new again. I founded Worlds Inc. and Ron Britvich was the genius coder of ActiveWorlds which started along with Worldschat(prematurely it turns out) the 3d virtual worlds walking around avatar thing.
It turns out that the main problem with the concept is that it is less like a living world and more like "neutron bomb world"...tons of buildings and constructs, but nothing to do there. There were two main lessons learned. First, the aesthetics must be of Movie quality which we now have with the PS2 and XBoxes of the world. The second lesson is that there must be SCARCITY of land (hong kong and manhatten) creating reeflike ecologies/economies rather than North Dakota land...land as far as infinity and nothing to do and no way to find anything interesting.
Gotta have VoIP and streaming video and the ability to drive up to a 2d object (like a webpage) and enter standard 2d "driving mode" and then back away into the Vworld again. That way you could have dozens of IE screens available and drive up to them and make'em active. You could also have a whole crowd with you there...
P.S. Current project is www.methuselahmouse.org - the prize to reverse mouse aging. I'm probably early with this too, but unlike worlds, we NEED to start asap - not getting any younger - YET :-)
"Now if only there were more prizes"
We need to keep the aging engineering genii such as Rutan going for quite a bit longer...ergo -
The Methuselah Mouse Prize for the reveral of human aging - www.methuselahmouse.org
From the fawning respect dept: This is bar none the most important software ever created. I have kept a complete and pristine copy of a very early Apple version...it's the only software I felt was worth keeping along with my unopened bottle of Royal Wedding (chuck&di) preserve 25 year old Glen Grant single malt scotch. I'll probably open them both for my daugher's wedding :-)
The researchers win cash while the mouse/mice is/are still alive. Cheese is optional
Good point, and we're aware of this. We are perfectly happy with the idea that the bat genes would be compared with the mouse genes to identify which genes "make the difference", and if the bat genes could make the mouse live longer. No problem (unless of course the mice get loose and take over the world because they live too long now :-)
The winning mice must be healthy and vibrant - as specified on standardized scientific tests. That's one of the reasons to use this particular species of mouse. You can score their relative health, vigor and even intelligence relative to young mice. aMAZEing eh? Dave Gobel - Chairman The Methuselah Foundation
Our plan is to be around due to the success of the prize. We would then be amused that the relativistic mouse would have no owners due to their being dead - even if the mouse was "old", the prize money would have been awarded already. You can't win the longitude prize anymore...Mr. Harrison and his son already walked away with the money.
Did you notice that Peter Diamandis of XPrize fame is one of the advisors to the mouse prize?
We are looking to incent the extension of the healthy and vigorous lifespan of mice. We are sensitive to the issue of animal treatment. We have great reverence for life - that is a key motivation for the prize series. dave
Even the religious would be in synch with this if they read about Methuselah etc. They would find that folks had children much later than now. Just what you'd expect...funny eh? And, I think it's true that the longer the lifespan in the west, the later the average date for the first birth...hmmm
Hi folks, As one of the organizers, here's an answer to the question about transplanting mouse ears to game the system. We are looking at providing custom engineered mus musculus mice that contain a special secret recipe that guarantees authenticity. FYI, around 70% of mus musculus die of Cancer...you might think of this competition as a "two-fer". To make a mouse that's two years old already survive for 4 or 5 years, you MUST prevent the cancer in the already aged rat. Re:Immortality - We're seeking to provide lots more healthy tomorrows - I hate leaving movies in the middle :-) ...and...I LOVE Pinky and the Brain!
Dave Gobel
The Methuselah Foundation (www.methuselahmouse.org) has already started a prize fund to incent competition to reverse mouse aging. It's already awarded its first prize to a mouse that lived ~180 human equivalent years. Four preeminent life extension researchers have already signed up to compete. By the way, for those who say sooner or later, you'll get hit by a train, by the time you live 200 years from now, I wonder if anyone will remember what trains were etc. etc. (think diamandoid skin) Cheers!
Everything old is new again. I founded Worlds Inc. which started (prematurely it turns out) the 3d virtual worlds walking around avatar thing. Activeworlds was designed without knowledge of snowcrash, but was certainly synchronous with that novel. It turns out that the main problem with the concept is that it is less like a living world and more like "neutron bomb world"...tons of buildings and constructs, but nothing to do there. There were two main lessons learned. First, the aesthetics must be of Movie quality which we now have with the PS2 and XBoxes of the world. The second lesson is that there must be SCARCITY of land (hong kong and manhatten) creating reeflike ecologies/economies rather than North Dakota land...land as far as infinity and nothing to do and no way to find anything interesting. Hmmm - I wonder if it's time to take another run at the concept Cheers, David Gobel If knowledge is infinite, then I MUST be infinitely ignorant