From the wikipedia article: "Contrary to the.NET Framework, the JVM was initially designed to support only the Java programming language. However, as time passes, more and more languages were designed to run on the Java platform."
So yes, it was cool for MS to come up with that;).
As a programmer who has done both Java and.NET development I can say that.NET is not a clone of Java. Sure there is some overlap, but they are largely different. I don't think people understand the purpose and strength of.NET/Mono in open source development and in development in general. I keep seeing people talk as if it is an alternative to Java. The design goal of the Java language was to provide a single language that could run on any hardware that had a JVM ("Build once, run anywhere"). The.NET Framework on the other hand is about multiple languages targeting the same platform/runtime. The real power of the platform is that one developer in one part of the world can write libraries and frameworks in one language, and then a developer on the other side of the world can use/extend those libraries/frameworks with another language. That bit is not that visible right now because VB.NET and C#.NET look similar and there is are very few idioms that don't exist in both languages. There are other.NET languages coming down the pipe (F# for example) which look drastically different than C# which will allow developers to solve problems using a drastically different mindset, but the code will still run on the CLR and will be able to be used/extended by other developers using other languages.
Oh... so true. But seriously, how can it be MS if they are having trouble finding a good developer to support it. MS-abled developers aren't difficult to come by. However, it is possible that it's some niche offshoot platform based on.NET like say Monorail or Castle.
My gut says that online distribution can't win in the movie *purchase* market until DRM is made more consumer friendly. People are starting to clue into the fact that they may be S.O.L. if they buy a movie download and their computer/device dies or the service goes out of business (like the Wallmart movie service). DRM has to become user friendly in the sense that a user can keep the license beyond the life of the service and that the media can be moved to another device. I don't think 1 purchase per device is going to fly for anything that isn't sold dirt cheap. Maybe the answer is a license dongle like iLok with online license storage in case the dongle dies.
All that being said, digital downloads could really take off in the rental market if services can deliver the same audio and visual experience as physical media (including extras, commentaries etc...). From what I have read, apple TV has pretty darn good quality, but the rental fee is still too high IMHO. It's gotta be as cheap as Netflix or cheaper.
Oh yes.... I remember Sony claimed it didn't see any profit from Spider-Man (1) even though it grossed over ONE BILLION DOLLARS. My spider-sense is tingling.
I left out why recounts are costly: The State Employees who do the recounting have to skip out on their regular job duties until the recount is done. In highly contested cases where lawyers and party representatives are bickering over every ballot, it can become a huge time sink.
It varies from state-to-state, but typically it works like this: If an election is very close (within the margin of error of the vote tallying method), an automatic recount is done, and is payed for by the state. Any candidate can request a recount for any reason if they are willing to pay for it in the case the election did not fall into the automatic recount scenario.
I never said I buy through banner ads. In the previous example, it usually is just an ad leading to the studios page for the dvd, or the gaming studios page for the game. These ads are intended to inform you about a product so you can go buy them at amazon or wherever.
Yes, usually on genre sites such as movie and video game sites. I don't feel like I need a shower when I click on an ad for the Blade Runner box set for example (something I clicked on).
I think that a Creative Commons release is ideal for indie bands because a release at this point in the game is more about gaining exposure/promotion than it is about making cash.
First off - Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion, and a very heartfelt thank you goes out to those of you who ended up donating. Also, I appreciate those of you who took the time to listen even if you decided we were not your cup of tea, or did not feel like donating.
~Updated Stats~ 10/19 - 11/7
Total downloads: 180
10 donations
% of downloaders making donation: 5.5%
Smallest donation: $2
Largest donation: $12
Average donation: $6.30
11/6 - 11/7 (Slashdot effect only*)
Total downloads: 110
5 donations
% of downloaders making donation: 4.5%
Smallest donation: $3
Largest donation: $10
Average donation: $5.80
*assumes all donations since yesterday were from/.ers
Interesting side note: we had roughly 400 more page hits yesterday than we normally get.
I think it's fun to look at the/. numbers, but ultimately this experiment was about how the "pay what you want" model would work for an indie band. Many of you have questioned how many CDs we would sell at a typical show. It's difficult to answer that because we've only just had the CD release show and a copy of the CD was included in the admission price so we didn't technically count those as CD sales. However, having a lot of friends in small local bands, I know that it's safe to say a band is going to sell less than 10 CDs per show. That probably seems like a small number to most of you reading this, but the local music scene here is saturated (too many great bars with live music every night of the week, too many great bands, and not enough listeners to fill all of those bars). Since we only printed a few hundred copies of the CD, our manufacturing cost is roughly $2 per CD. With the price will be selling them at, we will probably be making right around what the average internet donation is at the moment.
Thanks for the input. I agree, there are probably distribution channels that are easier for a lot of potential fans. We've tried local radio, but frankly the Minneapolis scene is so hopping right now that we are competing with 50 other great bands for the limited amount of local music time on the two stations that play local music.
I like the idea you have of doing some sort of indie band internet sampler. Maybe sites like last FM or Jamendo kind of fit the bill, but neither of them are completely visible in the mainstream like say myspace. Maybe an indie verson of pandora.com would due the trick.
Paypal isn't the best is it? I appreciate your desire to donate. If paypal doesn't work for you, maybe you could support us by passing the recording on to people and/or review the album in a blog.
That's ok, I don't think you're sounding like a jerk.
To us, the release is first and foremost about promoting the band. That's why we've released it under the creative commons license. Under that license we've basically told the listeners to share it. We want people to listen and pass it on with the goal of driving up interest in the music. If someone chooses to give us money because they think it has value we will obviously be happy. As the poster below stated, it's not about making money right out of the gate. It's more about building a brand. Amazon didn't post a profit forever remember.
Slashdot Mirror
From the wikipedia article: "Contrary to the .NET Framework, the JVM was initially designed to support only the Java programming language. However, as time passes, more and more languages were designed to run on the Java platform."
So yes, it was cool for MS to come up with that ;).
As a programmer who has done both Java and .NET development I can say that .NET is not a clone of Java. Sure there is some overlap, but they are largely different. I don't think people understand the purpose and strength of .NET/Mono in open source development and in development in general. I keep seeing people talk as if it is an alternative to Java. The design goal of the Java language was to provide a single language that could run on any hardware that had a JVM ("Build once, run anywhere"). The .NET Framework on the other hand is about multiple languages targeting the same platform/runtime. The real power of the platform is that one developer in one part of the world can write libraries and frameworks in one language, and then a developer on the other side of the world can use/extend those libraries/frameworks with another language. That bit is not that visible right now because VB.NET and C#.NET look similar and there is are very few idioms that don't exist in both languages. There are other .NET languages coming down the pipe (F# for example) which look drastically different than C# which will allow developers to solve problems using a drastically different mindset, but the code will still run on the CLR and will be able to be used/extended by other developers using other languages.
Oh... so true. But seriously, how can it be MS if they are having trouble finding a good developer to support it. MS-abled developers aren't difficult to come by. However, it is possible that it's some niche offshoot platform based on .NET like say Monorail or Castle.
My gut says that online distribution can't win in the movie *purchase* market until DRM is made more consumer friendly. People are starting to clue into the fact that they may be S.O.L. if they buy a movie download and their computer/device dies or the service goes out of business (like the Wallmart movie service). DRM has to become user friendly in the sense that a user can keep the license beyond the life of the service and that the media can be moved to another device. I don't think 1 purchase per device is going to fly for anything that isn't sold dirt cheap. Maybe the answer is a license dongle like iLok with online license storage in case the dongle dies.
All that being said, digital downloads could really take off in the rental market if services can deliver the same audio and visual experience as physical media (including extras, commentaries etc...). From what I have read, apple TV has pretty darn good quality, but the rental fee is still too high IMHO. It's gotta be as cheap as Netflix or cheaper.
Oh yes.... I remember Sony claimed it didn't see any profit from Spider-Man (1) even though it grossed over ONE BILLION DOLLARS. My spider-sense is tingling.
I left out why recounts are costly: The State Employees who do the recounting have to skip out on their regular job duties until the recount is done. In highly contested cases where lawyers and party representatives are bickering over every ballot, it can become a huge time sink.
It varies from state-to-state, but typically it works like this: If an election is very close (within the margin of error of the vote tallying method), an automatic recount is done, and is payed for by the state. Any candidate can request a recount for any reason if they are willing to pay for it in the case the election did not fall into the automatic recount scenario.
I never said I buy through banner ads. In the previous example, it usually is just an ad leading to the studios page for the dvd, or the gaming studios page for the game. These ads are intended to inform you about a product so you can go buy them at amazon or wherever.
Yes, usually on genre sites such as movie and video game sites. I don't feel like I need a shower when I click on an ad for the Blade Runner box set for example (something I clicked on).
Global Slowing (tm) is a CRISIS. Thankfully I've come up with a system of time credits that should alleviate the problem.
Don't forget the part about fixing the ozone hole over Middle Earth.
I think that a Creative Commons release is ideal for indie bands because a release at this point in the game is more about gaining exposure/promotion than it is about making cash.
You are assuming I only have one stalker.
Updated
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=352351&cid=21271203
First off - Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion, and a very heartfelt thank you goes out to those of you who ended up donating. Also, I appreciate those of you who took the time to listen even if you decided we were not your cup of tea, or did not feel like donating.
/.ers
/. numbers, but ultimately this experiment was about how the "pay what you want" model would work for an indie band. Many of you have questioned how many CDs we would sell at a typical show. It's difficult to answer that because we've only just had the CD release show and a copy of the CD was included in the admission price so we didn't technically count those as CD sales. However, having a lot of friends in small local bands, I know that it's safe to say a band is going to sell less than 10 CDs per show. That probably seems like a small number to most of you reading this, but the local music scene here is saturated (too many great bars with live music every night of the week, too many great bands, and not enough listeners to fill all of those bars). Since we only printed a few hundred copies of the CD, our manufacturing cost is roughly $2 per CD. With the price will be selling them at, we will probably be making right around what the average internet donation is at the moment.
~Updated Stats~
10/19 - 11/7
Total downloads: 180
10 donations
% of downloaders making donation: 5.5%
Smallest donation: $2
Largest donation: $12
Average donation: $6.30
11/6 - 11/7 (Slashdot effect only*)
Total downloads: 110
5 donations
% of downloaders making donation: 4.5%
Smallest donation: $3
Largest donation: $10
Average donation: $5.80
*assumes all donations since yesterday were from
Interesting side note: we had roughly 400 more page hits yesterday than we normally get.
I think it's fun to look at the
I've had one email through the feedback email. It was someone asking for the album in the ogg vorbis format (which wasn't up at the time).
Thanks for the input. I agree, there are probably distribution channels that are easier for a lot of potential fans. We've tried local radio, but frankly the Minneapolis scene is so hopping right now that we are competing with 50 other great bands for the limited amount of local music time on the two stations that play local music.
I like the idea you have of doing some sort of indie band internet sampler. Maybe sites like last FM or Jamendo kind of fit the bill, but neither of them are completely visible in the mainstream like say myspace. Maybe an indie verson of pandora.com would due the trick.
Paypal isn't the best is it? I appreciate your desire to donate. If paypal doesn't work for you, maybe you could support us by passing the recording on to people and/or review the album in a blog.
Thank you very much. Please feel free to share it with your friends.
Thanks for the reminder about that page. We're on it.
That's ok, I don't think you're sounding like a jerk.
To us, the release is first and foremost about promoting the band. That's why we've released it under the creative commons license. Under that license we've basically told the listeners to share it. We want people to listen and pass it on with the goal of driving up interest in the music. If someone chooses to give us money because they think it has value we will obviously be happy. As the poster below stated, it's not about making money right out of the gate. It's more about building a brand. Amazon didn't post a profit forever remember.
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I do appreciate it and I think you have valid points. FWIW, I'm one of the two guitarists in the project.
One other poster mentioned Jamendo too. Honestly, I hadn't heard of it before today. It looks like a neat idea. I will be looking into it.
Good point you have there. Also on a semi-related point, Paypal is a deal breaker for some people.