first, say hi to pat and leo from the gang at/. will ya.
people really don't need a book to get going. the distros are so good now, well RH an Mandrake frommy usage (please no flames), and they come with so much documentation that a book is only needed for more detailed stuff. i recommend though two books: RH X.X Bible by IDG, and RH X.X Unleahsed by SAMS.
Both come with cd's, and get you going really nicely. The biggest problem is not linux, but the 6,000,000 apps that come with it.
remember, these are the same guys who said that not watching ads is the same as stealing. most pvr's have ad skipping, or you can FF in 30 second blocks. i believe tivo has this feature.
i sold someone last night on moz, when i said all you do is go into edit->preferences->advanced->scripts&plugins->open unrequested windows (uncheck). viola, no popups. that is worth its weight in gold. try that in ie.
that as long as people can get a hold of office cd's, they will install it, because to them it is "free". and m$ knew this, and knows it. the sad truth is that for all their bitching about piracy, it helped them. and they knew it, and laughed all the to the bank. i know that for instance, although my school gets office for $50 a box, it is not available to teachers' personal computers for that price. you think the office97 install cd's haven't made the rounds 1-2 thousand times. ha. think again.
the big test will come when new version of windows no longer runs office97/2k.
keep in mind that riding a bike is not easy. same with windows. it is not easy to learn. but, it's what people have learned, thus it's what people know, so that is what we are up against. windows, especially office, is full of inconsistencies. i think they own half the interface hall of shame. usability is simply what you know, what you're used to. we either replicate it, or if we try to do it differently, it "is hard". my students in my clasroom have had no problem running openoffice. since most of them don't know much more than how to type the words and do a few things, they don't have to unlearn bad UI habits.
for something to be a right, it has to be both universal and simultaneous, and impose no burden or cost onto others. thus, if two dudes want to play hide the salami all night long, they are free to do so. however, that does not mean i have to think it is wholesome, natural, or normal. and, since i'm an econ major...
It's like taking care of the environment by limiting the 'freedom' of that chemical plant over there to dump PCBs into the ground-water and kill everyone over a very long term.
thus, their actions impose burdens and costs, called externalties. plus, they are responsible for their actions. liek motorcycle helmet laws. sure, you want to splat your brains all over I-5, fine. but everyone's auto insurance rates go up, and society has to pick up lots of the medical bills. thus we bear the burden of unhelmeted motorcyclists. thus, we can sure as hell tell them to put a helmet on.
but i am expressly talking about property rights. socialism by its very nature is opposed to property rights. remember, if they can tax it, they can take it. if they can take it, you don't own it. property rights are at the heart of a truly free society. (btw, there is a HUGE difference between property and IP). another post though...
he has done great things for not only the FOSS communities, but comptuing in general. however, his philosophy is basically socialist in nature. and socialism is basically opposite of freedom. while i applaud his software contributions, i assume most/. readers like making money. we want to do it with FOSS, and many of us contribute in any number of ways for no pay, but we all have bills (no not him!!) to pay, kids to feed, mortgages, (ex-wives!!!), etc. he cannot be roundly accepted in corporate climates since he is the antithesis of corporate. i respect that. but i don't happen to agree.
last time i heard, m$ was pissed that so few copies of office X sold. they invested major resources for it, and have got little. in fact, they bitched to apple that they might not make a new version. (wish apple would hop on the OO.org aqua port!!!) can't remember where i read the article, but they expected like 750,000 to 1 million copies, and they haven't sold 200,000. with 5-6 million imacs alone, this is a paltry total. and that could be why m$ is offereing $300 off office X when you buy a new mac. i bought an ibook. i didn't buy office. and all wheel mice work fine. not just the m$ mouse.
i am a school teacher. i would love to support your premise, but can't. for several reasons. one, the people who make the decisions are incompetent. we have a novell network at my district. we have 4 hi, 4 jr hi, continuation, adult ed, district office, and assorted off campus sites. probably about 7-8000 clients total. what's a CNA get paid? about 75,000? since the district network technician is "classified", he gets at best 45-50,000. seoncdly our district tech coordiantor, an admin position is headed by a guy who has seniority, but doesn't know jack about computers. so, they think, gee microsoft. great. i emailed him this summer about staroffice from sun. it's free for schools, etc. his reply:
"no thanks. we'll stay standardizerd on Microsoft."
documentation and the documentation in windows is so stellar? it is mostly non-existent. oh, that's right, go out and buy teach yourself win..., or win... unleashed, or whatever. and try to find help on line. if FOSS docs are 2nd rate, windows docs are 4th rate.
product is second rate which products are you using? hell, if you download and install a 0.6 beta, yeah, you're helping to work out some bugs. but you would rather be a paying beta tester, only to have improvements come out in the next release (um...windows) by the time apps get to 1.0, Mozilla, OO, they are first rate. i wonder what Office betas look like. we just never see them.
user interface i have both a linux desktop and ibook. i love both. windows was never, and still is not "easy". riding a bike easy? no, but you learned it. like windows. it's what people know.
maybe you should give some examples of your "quick fixes, and why it is only worth it if your time if worthless. i'm sure the good folks at ibm, dell, oracle, sun, and many others think it is "mission critical".
m$ has money to burn. their goal is to have enough money to operate a whole year without a cent in revenue. this is short term loss for long term gain. if they stamp out the one true possible competitor, by taking advantage of business people's shortsightedness, they win. according to ESR, m$ blew its chance in 98 to kill linux. now they have one last chance. get them into long term contracts (3 years) and there'll be no switching. don't be surprised if this is followed shortly by some plan to change the educational volume license deals.
linux/OO/moz now matches up well for a great many people/businesses. is it right for everyone? no. but the problem is that once their is traction, macromedia will port DW to linux, adobe will port photoshop, etc. then windows hegemony disappears. if you think the folks running m$ are fools, think again. they see the future very clearly. they won't blow it twice. the second time will kill them.
what bugs me about java is its verbosity. just to open a socket and write to it is like 6 or seven lines. perl is one line. i am sure there is a happy medium. (no, i don't know enough c to compare). also, java bugs me in that there is only one way, as opposed to the perl's there is infinite ways. again, a happy medium thing. what i have found though is java can do basically anything, and it is relatively easy to learn. perl on the other hand can do anything, but is a bitch to learn. but other than that, i have been very productive with each. in fact, i just fire up vim and have a tererminal or two open. i have tried every ide, and like none. except for jedit. really nice and fast, for a java app.
it made me good coder. i drop text box and button on form. i double click button. i get code window. text1.text="hello world!". make good money too. friends think i'm 37337.
if i remember correctly, linux was built to be PC unix. hmmm...so it still isn't ready to go on big iron. BFD. its strength is clustering, like at buffalo university. so just use the right tool for the job. though it does seem that the trend is toward distributed/clustered computing. which fits in perfectly with linux. how about instead of complaining that the kernel doesn't have this or that, get the source, and write your own LVM.
i'm not sure. her district person said that was all they could get. and it's home, not pro, so i wonder how it will fit into the network.
i'm also not sure about school's volume licensing. it works differently than a business. plus, m$ isn't offering new licenses for 98. i do know that we purchased 30 new dell's and used the downgrade option to go to 98 from xp. but that is different than a no os computer.
which is why i am working for adoption of linux. we have about 70-80 or so old p120/32mb boxen. and most are actually unused. i am pushing to turn them into x clients of a big dual xeon server. principal is on board. district IT,no idea, but i doubt it.
at schools where much of the hardware is donated, and since licenses aren't transferrable, we have to install whatever m$ will let us.
recently, a friend in an elementray school that feeds my junior high tells me that they get 20 donated pentium 2's, with 64MB ram. okay, but guess what? all they can buy are xp licenses.
support isn't the issue. they just don't sell the os's any more, and that is the real problem. why is it necesary to have a p4 with 256 MB to do EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS that i did on a p2/64mb system a few years ago.
it doesn't affect XP. is this m$'s plan all along. you have office people saying that win9x is impossible to make secure, and office 11 will only run on 2000 SP3 or higher. in the end, this is a good thing for m$. all the more reason to upgrade. it is a greaet sales pitch. in fact, wasn't m$ using no more BSODs as a selling point for XP? as if BSODs were somehow from some mysterious OS.
please don't ruin my point with such good questions!!!
well, there are lots of possibilities. one, i might not leave. i've been here 7 years. two, with usage, people will get more and more used to, and comfortable with, and maybe want to learn. third, maybe the district will hire people who know linux. hell, if we save 10's of thousands of dollars, there might be money to...oh yeah, more windows licenses. maybe linux can be a requirement for employment.
oh yeah, i WISH i was a linux admin here. maybe one day.
Slashdot Mirror
first, say hi to pat and leo from the gang at /. will ya.
people really don't need a book to get going. the distros are so good now, well RH an Mandrake frommy usage (please no flames), and they come with so much documentation that a book is only needed for more detailed stuff. i recommend though two books: RH X.X Bible by IDG, and RH X.X Unleahsed by SAMS. Both come with cd's, and get you going really nicely. The biggest problem is not linux, but the 6,000,000 apps that come with it.
remember, these are the same guys who said that not watching ads is the same as stealing. most pvr's have ad skipping, or you can FF in 30 second blocks. i believe tivo has this feature.
i sold someone last night on moz, when i said all you do is go into edit->preferences->advanced->scripts&plugins->open unrequested windows (uncheck). viola, no popups. that is worth its weight in gold. try that in ie.
do people actually click on the crap they get. it certainly can't be very effective. if it is, how come?
Gateway computer, preloaded with songs: $999
Connection to the Internet: $19.95/mo.
Knowing it's only going to take a couple minutes to crack 20,000 songs wide open: Priceless
profit
that as long as people can get a hold of office cd's, they will install it, because to them it is "free". and m$ knew this, and knows it. the sad truth is that for all their bitching about piracy, it helped them. and they knew it, and laughed all the to the bank. i know that for instance, although my school gets office for $50 a box, it is not available to teachers' personal computers for that price. you think the office97 install cd's haven't made the rounds 1-2 thousand times. ha. think again.
the big test will come when new version of windows no longer runs office97/2k.
try this: click
file->print. choose pages. if you want tabs 1-3 printed, type 1-3. if you want 1,3, 5 printed, type 1,3,5. viola.
keep in mind that riding a bike is not easy. same with windows. it is not easy to learn. but, it's what people have learned, thus it's what people know, so that is what we are up against. windows, especially office, is full of inconsistencies. i think they own half the interface hall of shame. usability is simply what you know, what you're used to. we either replicate it, or if we try to do it differently, it "is hard". my students in my clasroom have had no problem running openoffice. since most of them don't know much more than how to type the words and do a few things, they don't have to unlearn bad UI habits.
but i am expressly talking about property rights. socialism by its very nature is opposed to property rights. remember, if they can tax it, they can take it. if they can take it, you don't own it. property rights are at the heart of a truly free society. (btw, there is a HUGE difference between property and IP). another post though...
he has done great things for not only the FOSS communities, but comptuing in general. however, his philosophy is basically socialist in nature. and socialism is basically opposite of freedom. while i applaud his software contributions, i assume most /. readers like making money. we want to do it with FOSS, and many of us contribute in any number of ways for no pay, but we all have bills (no not him!!) to pay, kids to feed, mortgages, (ex-wives!!!), etc. he cannot be roundly accepted in corporate climates since he is the antithesis of corporate. i respect that. but i don't happen to agree.
last time i heard, m$ was pissed that so few copies of office X sold. they invested major resources for it, and have got little. in fact, they bitched to apple that they might not make a new version. (wish apple would hop on the OO.org aqua port!!!) can't remember where i read the article, but they expected like 750,000 to 1 million copies, and they haven't sold 200,000. with 5-6 million imacs alone, this is a paltry total. and that could be why m$ is offereing $300 off office X when you buy a new mac. i bought an ibook. i didn't buy office. and all wheel mice work fine. not just the m$ mouse.
i am a school teacher. i would love to support your premise, but can't. for several reasons. one, the people who make the decisions are incompetent. we have a novell network at my district. we have 4 hi, 4 jr hi, continuation, adult ed, district office, and assorted off campus sites. probably about 7-8000 clients total. what's a CNA get paid? about 75,000? since the district network technician is "classified", he gets at best 45-50,000. seoncdly our district tech coordiantor, an admin position is headed by a guy who has seniority, but doesn't know jack about computers. so, they think, gee microsoft. great. i emailed him this summer about staroffice from sun. it's free for schools, etc. his reply:
"no thanks. we'll stay standardizerd on Microsoft."
your tax dolalrs at work.
documentation and the documentation in windows is so stellar? it is mostly non-existent. oh, that's right, go out and buy teach yourself win..., or win... unleashed, or whatever. and try to find help on line. if FOSS docs are 2nd rate, windows docs are 4th rate.
product is second rate which products are you using? hell, if you download and install a 0.6 beta, yeah, you're helping to work out some bugs. but you would rather be a paying beta tester, only to have improvements come out in the next release (um...windows) by the time apps get to 1.0, Mozilla, OO, they are first rate. i wonder what Office betas look like. we just never see them.
user interface i have both a linux desktop and ibook. i love both. windows was never, and still is not "easy". riding a bike easy? no, but you learned it. like windows. it's what people know.
maybe you should give some examples of your "quick fixes, and why it is only worth it if your time if worthless. i'm sure the good folks at ibm, dell, oracle, sun, and many others think it is "mission critical".
m$ has money to burn. their goal is to have enough money to operate a whole year without a cent in revenue. this is short term loss for long term gain. if they stamp out the one true possible competitor, by taking advantage of business people's shortsightedness, they win. according to ESR, m$ blew its chance in 98 to kill linux. now they have one last chance. get them into long term contracts (3 years) and there'll be no switching. don't be surprised if this is followed shortly by some plan to change the educational volume license deals.
linux/OO/moz now matches up well for a great many people/businesses. is it right for everyone? no. but the problem is that once their is traction, macromedia will port DW to linux, adobe will port photoshop, etc. then windows hegemony disappears. if you think the folks running m$ are fools, think again. they see the future very clearly. they won't blow it twice. the second time will kill them.
java.lang.System.out.println("hello world");
job security!!
what bugs me about java is its verbosity. just to open a socket and write to it is like 6 or seven lines. perl is one line. i am sure there is a happy medium. (no, i don't know enough c to compare). also, java bugs me in that there is only one way, as opposed to the perl's there is infinite ways. again, a happy medium thing. what i have found though is java can do basically anything, and it is relatively easy to learn. perl on the other hand can do anything, but is a bitch to learn. but other than that, i have been very productive with each. in fact, i just fire up vim and have a tererminal or two open. i have tried every ide, and like none. except for jedit. really nice and fast, for a java app.
it made me good coder. i drop text box and button on form. i double click button. i get code window. text1.text="hello world!". make good money too. friends think i'm 37337.
if i remember correctly, linux was built to be PC unix. hmmm...so it still isn't ready to go on big iron. BFD. its strength is clustering, like at buffalo university. so just use the right tool for the job. though it does seem that the trend is toward distributed/clustered computing. which fits in perfectly with linux. how about instead of complaining that the kernel doesn't have this or that, get the source, and write your own LVM.
eminem's worried about theft of music. good. he has nothing to worry about then.
i'm not sure. her district person said that was all they could get. and it's home, not pro, so i wonder how it will fit into the network.
i'm also not sure about school's volume licensing. it works differently than a business. plus, m$ isn't offering new licenses for 98. i do know that we purchased 30 new dell's and used the downgrade option to go to 98 from xp. but that is different than a no os computer.
which is why i am working for adoption of linux. we have about 70-80 or so old p120/32mb boxen. and most are actually unused. i am pushing to turn them into x clients of a big dual xeon server. principal is on board. district IT,no idea, but i doubt it.
at schools where much of the hardware is donated, and since licenses aren't transferrable, we have to install whatever m$ will let us.
recently, a friend in an elementray school that feeds my junior high tells me that they get 20 donated pentium 2's, with 64MB ram. okay, but guess what? all they can buy are xp licenses.
support isn't the issue. they just don't sell the os's any more, and that is the real problem. why is it necesary to have a p4 with 256 MB to do EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS that i did on a p2/64mb system a few years ago.
no, they invade france.
hello, yeah i am having problems with my PC
okay, what is the problem.
well, the computer is doing _______________.
okay, what distribution are you using? mandrake, debian, redhat?
um, i don't know, it's a PC
okay, down in the bottom right hand corner, there is either a K, or a foot.
no, it says start
(hmmm..., must be icewm)okay, press start, then click terminals, click aterm, then type uname -a and hit return
um, there's no terminals option.
okay, you see pretty fields inthe background?
yes
good, makes you feel relaxed and comfortable, right?
yes
good, it's supposed to. go to slashdot. see my sig.
what's a sig?
it doesn't affect XP. is this m$'s plan all along. you have office people saying that win9x is impossible to make secure, and office 11 will only run on 2000 SP3 or higher. in the end, this is a good thing for m$. all the more reason to upgrade. it is a greaet sales pitch. in fact, wasn't m$ using no more BSODs as a selling point for XP? as if BSODs were somehow from some mysterious OS.
please don't ruin my point with such good questions!!!
...oh yeah, more windows licenses. maybe linux can be a requirement for employment.
well, there are lots of possibilities. one, i might not leave. i've been here 7 years. two, with usage, people will get more and more used to, and comfortable with, and maybe want to learn. third, maybe the district will hire people who know linux. hell, if we save 10's of thousands of dollars, there might be money to
oh yeah, i WISH i was a linux admin here. maybe one day.