Slashdot Mirror
Linux Spurs MS Price Cuts
jimb writes "Yahoo!
reports:
'What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps have been instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that are migrating some of their machines to the Lindows OS,' Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor. 'If [the sales reps] think there's a real threat of some pretty large numbers of defections to open source, they can request authorization from Microsoft higher-ups to offer steeply discounted pricing."' I wonder how many businesses will now start pondering aloud the possibility ... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
Isn't selective discounting against the MS antitrust settlement?
- mark
-----
I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked.
that antitrust suit, too...
Linux distributors announced today that prices for Linux would be 100% off, bringing the cost down from $0 to $0. "This is an amazing move in order to compete!" said one anonymous coward on Slashdot.org.
if you are one of the people in charge of switching over from MS to Linux, please contact MS and act like you're some underling concerned about it. then when the rep comes to offer you discounts, laugh in his face. just laugh and laugh.
Maybe Microsoft will drop the CALs!!!!
MS will do anything to maintain their monopoly on the desktop OS (as recent numbers have shown, it provides flexibility in OTHER markets), so you can be sure that they won't feel bad about cutting the price of Windows. In fact, as Linux becomes more attractive, there will be more pressure to drop the price to 0 (zero). Any other price and they stand to lose their monopoly, which is worth more than a few measly bucks per computer sold....
smd4985
Since I recently heard that microsoft could sell windows for around $45 and make a profit (I think that's right), if they really want to make sure linux doesn't take over, knock the price of windows down. More people would be willing to buy windows xp if it was $50 rather than $200. I know they want to make a big profit, but I think if they got more sales (by discounts on prices) they would have more volume. But what do I know, I'm not a marketing analyst.
of how little Microsoft cares about the ruling against them for anti-competitive business practices. Selective discounts is specifically prohibited in the agreement, and now they are trying ways to get around the system.
-- David
Overrated Moderation: This posts sucks... because.
I've already converted three business over to a stricly Linux platform on the backend. I converted, in total, 120 servers over to Linux from Windows NT, saving the companies thousands and thousands of dollars in the process.
No 20, 30, or even 50% discount could have changed the minds of the CTOs for whom I worked. Now, all the mail, Web, etc. servers are running Linux, and these companies are happier than ever.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
that business use this tactic all the time. I'm sure we all wonder if all these foreign governments are seriously considering Linux, or just trying to negotiate better prices from Microsoft.
It's odd that Microsoft would admit to being willing to lower prices if someone happens to bring up the name, though. Maybe they're feeling bad about the "Licensing 6.0 won't raise the price you're paying" lie. Probably a lot of AP departments are now asking MS why they posted their biggest quarter ever once it was institued if it wasn't a net gain for MS.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
Microsoft's profit margins are over 80% on Windows - they're still making a profit unless they discount it to almost nothing.
I wonder if this works if you threaten to pirate their software? Seriously... I need Visual Studio .Net... I can't find an open source alternative that meets my needs... but if I threaten to pirate, will they give me a discount???
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I once heard, that if MS wanted to, they could cut the cost of Windows to free, and they would continue to generate large sums of income owing from the Office Suite, Server Suites (Exchange, SQL, etc). I think they were speaking of the desktop- home.
That's pretty impressive to me. But it reminded me of the IE and Windows thing. Tie them down to the apps, and they are forced to the OS.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
The other issue is that free software is not about getting the software itself for free, it's about the freedom to inspect, use, and improve the software as you like. That lowers TCO and reduces business risks; even if MIcrosoft gives away Windows for free, they can't compete with that.
All your bad joke are belong to me.
You have no chance to survive make your joke.
"Additionally, Microsoft is offering zero percent financing until early 2003 for one of its Licensing 6 programs geared toward small business customers. "
So, *small* business customers have to pay so much for licenses that they'd have to FINANCE it? Unbelieveable. And they wonder why everyone's giving the big raspberry to "Licensing 6.0" (even the name of the thing is just fucking pretentious, makes me want to punch someone)
sky blue; earth round.
But seriously, people, is this really a whole lot of a surprise? Every fifty minutes, we have some article about Microsoft doing something anticompetitive. Fine. We know Microsoft is bad.
Anyone who is suprised by this hasn't been reading Slashdot very long...
Everything is mainstream now.
Given that Microsoft can stand to make a little less profit on its sales of Windows. Is this really all that surprising?
Fear trumps hope and ignorance trumps both
I've been following the Lindows product since it's first annoucement, but I haven't used it at all (I'm not willing to pay $99 for beta-open-source-software [especially considering the high quality of many other distros]). It surprises me that Lindows rather than RedHat or Mandrake or even Lycoris is causing all the fuss. My impression has been it's a distro [or I should say a CEO named Robertson] that makes a lot of noise but isn't necessarily the best out there. Some might argue that making noise is enough. Perhaps it's enough to get MS and the press to notice, but if the product's crap, then the businesses and users who switch will be return to MS's camp quickly. Anyone using Lindows willing to point out how great it is or isn't? Does it really have a chance?
Who said Freedom was Fair?
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
:)
Yeah, but prolly not to anywhere near the same extent - proprietary hardware, remember? Added to which, Mac OS X isn't offering windows application interoperability.
On MS's mind, sure. In their sights...not nearly.
Triv
...should go to M$ and see if M$ will "undercut the competitor's prices". That way, they'd get money from M$ to remain on Windows.
Whether that's a true savings or not is left as an excercise for the reader...
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.php
>> I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well
+5 Insightful for you!! Most corporations are overpaying for hundreds of G4 macs for each cubicle. The rounded buttons make data entry much more efficient.
I don't think the ass-clown with 1 mac in his basement 'web-design' business gets a price cut, or even a visit from the MS reps, for that matter.
TIM-TIM-TIMMAY!
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Can you imagine if companies started to discount their software when competitors were involved? What would our economy do? Wait....that would lead to COMPETITION and competition is bad, surely microsoft sales reps realize that their software is supreme and that ALL THE BASE BELONG TO THEM.
Next thing you know, Office will be free to compete with OpenOffice and the like.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Microsoft is heading back into a world of competition. The monopoly ride was good, but now they gotta get back to selling the shit on the grounds of quality and superiority in peoples mind, even if that means selling it for less.
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering.
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Really? Maybe. The Xserve has gotten some attention, sure, but I think WinXP has solved Microsoft's biggest problem with Mac OS X: both XP and OS X look Shiny now.
I know, I know, Aqua is technically and aesthetically better, but most people don't know the difference. (Emphasis on most people, there.)
When companies start to realize that they can deploy both Macs and Linux with basically minimal fuss between them, that's when things get interesting.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Sex - Find It
That would be great to see.
Any of you old timers remember gas price wars? Before the 1973 embargo ruined it all.
This would be great!
Bill will win!
M$ OS's have all been inferior to Linux, yet they cost infinitely more. Some things just don't make sense...
I almost wish that M$ could raise prices, so as to drive more users to Linux or OSX.
pirates
The headline says Linux, the article says Lindows all over. Is Lindows the only GNU/Linux distribution they care about?
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Most of the times I have seen the comparison between the two cost isn't the number one factor. Normally it is "Proprietary vs. Open", "Low administrative needs", "Stability" or "Security" that tops the list.
Though the thought of a cheap OS might be appealing to some people I'm sure that isn't the only reason why people migrate away from the OS.
If you ask me Microsoft is barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Or am I off on this one?
What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps have been instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that are migrating some of their machines to the Lindows OS,' Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor.
I don't believe it. Lindows has gotten a lot of hype, and even some positive reviews, but I have not gotten the impression it's made any impact yet. (OK, maybe I do have some information -- reading KDE bug reports, mailing lists and help channels, I've never seen a single person using the KDE-based Lindows.)
Either the author confused "Linux" with "Lindows", it's another analyst shooting off her mouth about something she read a press release about or there's some financial connection to Lindows.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
How can it be possible to undercut your competition if you have a monopoly like that? Sure one can hope that every living soul out there using Microsoft learns about this. That way they had to pay some. Still it sounds a bit to creapy to me.
I mean comon, its not like Linux is that much of threat right now. To go to such an extreme to twart any sign of competition even in the earliest stage possible shows that they wont settle for anything but total domination. Thay still do anything possible to stop anybody from competing no matter how small they might be. That judge wouldnt get a clue with Cluestick 2000(tm) up her but powered by a nuclear powerplant.
HTTP/1.1 400
Just enter code, "thinkingaboutlinux" at the confirm order screen to show products at up to 50% off!
DiDio said that in some cases, the discounts could be as high as 50 percent.
Go read this.
Then do the math. At full price, MS has a profit margin of 85%. If they discount to half price, their profit margin drops precipitously to 70%. Other businesses should be so lucky; if my business had a profit margin that high, we could all retire after one contract.
I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
It has to be. When one of the companies that I consult for decided to move from Windows to OS X, the Microsoft rep was VERY concerned but could do nothing about the decision as they were absolutely sick of all the security snafu's from Microsoft. Personally, I also Switched my individual workstations from two Windows boxes and an SGI to a single OS X box saving me space, maintenance dollars and security and maintenance headaches.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Basted in blood!
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
What are they going to do? Offer to raise the price if someone is looking at buying a Mac?
Yeah, you may call me troll if you like, but as long as Apple keep its pricing, it will be a niche OS, partly for those that wants to tell the world they can afford it.
I'm sure it is a great computer, but even die hard Mac fans I know are buying PC's because they can not afford the computer they really want. Not to mention all non-Mac users.
Ellen Feiss or no, people that actually do switch are really, really rare, even these days.
you have split my sides.
hot grits everywhere on floor
MONOPOLIES!!!!!
Back in high school, every computer in the entire building was running Windows 98. Of course, we had a Novell-backed network to do all the dirty work like user authentication and email, but from a desktop standpoint, it was Windows all the way.
I found out about Gentoo from an Internet Web site and soon began investigating the feasibility of converting most of the existing machines over to Linux.
Years later, I saved my old school probably $5,000+ and they're all running highly-optimized, natively-compiled Linux systems courtesy of the Gentoo creators. I initially considered Slackware and Debian since they're rock-solid, but I felt that Gentoo had a more active community and a quicker turn-over in the development cycle.
Regardless, though, Linux was the right choice, and I urge potential Microsoft customers to seriously consider Open Source solutions. Do not let these meager price cuts deceive you!
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Read this article for more info.
p hp
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
And those other companies? They do the same things when customers start getting evil thoughts of moving to Microsoft. Or one of the other companies, ad nauseam.
It's called "business". But it's not "news".
Office v.X, IE, etc. are cross-compatible.
Virtual PC runs Windows.
Treat your boots with the respect they deserve. If there were many ponies, which would you pick ?
I think we've all learned something beautiful today. Thankyou Slashdot !
I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
Why would you be so sure ? AFAIK, there are no large movements under foot in corporations to move from Windows to OS X. And OS X suffers from many of the same undesirable qualities as Windows: for instance, it's not (completely) open and it requires hefty licensing fees. Moreover, the huge variety of apps availble under Windows are mostly NOT avaible under OS X. So why would MS deem OS X to be a threat ?
only the first hit is free. But, because we like you, here is a little more smack for the holidays.
Seriously, it's nice to see that the market is having at least some realistic effect. Monopoly, Someone?
I still wouldn't buy XP even if it was only $1. DRM + product activation BS + all the undocumented insecurity bugs that I can only rely on them to patch and announce if they find it convenient... Nope, Windows isn't worth a dollar to me.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
when you are as money laden as m$, you can afford some down time with prices (no, not bin laden)....
i've had enough of this company. i've had enough of computers and OS'. i've had enough period. i'll be in the games room, playing monopoly if anyone needs me.
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
I love this company
Is there really a company out there this stupid?
I can see the points of sticking with Windows (software works OK, no retraining costs, licencing cost increase doesn't outweigh short-term pain of switch). I can see the points of switching to a *real* Linux distro (Red Hat, SuSE, et al) aiming at the business desktop (Free, secure, etc).
But Lindows offers no advantage to a business. It is different enough from a user point of view that there would be big-time retraining. Most custom apps would not work (hell, most packaged Windows apps wouldn't either). They also play loose with the spirit of the GPL and it runs as root to open themselves up to viruses and hacks.
Maybe Microsoft is targeting businesses that show interest in Lindows because, when it comes to customers contemplating a switch from Windows, you might as well go after the dumbest ones first!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Before I finished up my studies at Yale Law School, I had to study the details of Microsoft's settlement agreement.
Specialized price cuts are strictly prohibited by order of the government of the United States of America.
I urge any Chief Technology Officers (CTOs) here to report these crimes if Microsoft representatives try to make you "an offer you can't refuse".
Sure, you may save a few thousand dollars, but you're helping Microsoft break the law.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Do you think Bill will give me a discount on Windows XP Pro? $80 instead of $299 would be great!
(Laugh, it's funny :-)
This is another one of the benefits of the open source software movement. Microsoft reduces its costs to the consumer, which is a good thing, or am I wrong?
Microsoft is offering zero percent financing until early 2003... :
later, small fast voice in background says
Offer valid on select Licensing 6 programs geared toward small business customers.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
We do all our R&D on Linux, and most people use Windows on their desktops. Aside from me grumbling every time someone asks me to help them with their Windows box, and other people grumbling that they have to use Linux, this is more or less okay. The other day, though, my boss started asking if we should be looking at doing "cross-platform" development, because so many people run Windows exclusively. Gulp. Since we have far more Linux machines than Windows machines right now (and developer mindshare is firmly in the Linux camp), we'd be an excellent target.
(Actually, I told my boss we were already doing cross-platform development: I could easily port everything we're running to FreeBSD, Irix, Solaris, even MacOS X. . . this is the first time I've ever heard "cross-platform" mean "make it run on Windows".)
80% profit? Really? I didn't read that in their 10K. How'd you come up with that number?
What is MS thinking? Really does show you how dumb MS is...
Does it take a Linux OS with many of MS's shortcomings for MS to recognize a "threat"? I'd be a bit more concerned about something like Redhat. I guess MS still hasnt figured out that people like free stuff.
If there was no Linux to compete with Microsoft, there would be no discounts.
I hope businesses see this as an opportunity to say no to Microsoft. Because if they all say yes, Microsoft will increase its market share and the discount will disappear right before their eyes.
50% market share for Linux and other open source OSs would be perfect and would make Microsoft play nice with their customers.
Linux: the best friend for Microsoft users.
I do not believe this is an illegal practice, such as predatory pricing. To target specific demographics (regional wealth or lack of it,etc.) would be predatory. This is simply competing for business. And it's a smart move for them in the long term.
C'mon guys, this smells troll.
He says "I found out about Gentoo from an Internet Web site and soon began [...]", and then continues "Years later, I saved my old school [...]". Yeah, right. Gentoo's been around "years"?
This economy and MS's actions have provided an awesome opportunity for Open Source, and put MS at a risk that they haven't seen for more than a decade.
Yet open source advocates should keep focused. The software is almost where it needs to be, not quite. Why is this bad? Because there will potentially be a huge flood of new users, who will run crying back to MS if they encounter any significant issue (even if the issue is all in their mind). Basically, if open source loses this round of potential converts, we could be locked out for many many years.
Remember "that which doesn't kill me only makes me stronger".
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
B. Microsoft's provision of Windows Operating System Products to Covered OEMs shall be pursuant to uniform license agreements with uniform terms and conditions. Without limiting the foregoing, Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs and all Covered OEMs, that provides for uniform royalties for Windows Operating System Products, except that:
m$ has money to burn. their goal is to have enough money to operate a whole year without a cent in revenue. this is short term loss for long term gain. if they stamp out the one true possible competitor, by taking advantage of business people's shortsightedness, they win. according to ESR, m$ blew its chance in 98 to kill linux. now they have one last chance. get them into long term contracts (3 years) and there'll be no switching. don't be surprised if this is followed shortly by some plan to change the educational volume license deals.
linux/OO/moz now matches up well for a great many people/businesses. is it right for everyone? no. but the problem is that once their is traction, macromedia will port DW to linux, adobe will port photoshop, etc. then windows hegemony disappears. if you think the folks running m$ are fools, think again. they see the future very clearly. they won't blow it twice. the second time will kill them.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Why can't Microsoft see how much of a fool they are making out of themselves? Do they honestly think that they can compete with something that a) is free. b) has excellent security c) that has such a great support system. Open source systems and Windows are on a totally different level...
Think of it this way... If you have even 200 users... Software that is frequently exploitable is still exploitable even if the price tag is at $100 or $50.00.
If a company was already thinking of switching some one there machines over to Linux, I would hope that they 50% off would have no affect on them...
Microsoft doesn't understand that the market is switching... Were interested in Quality now....not quantity.
In related news, Microsoft decided today to Migrate to Linux and Mac OS X in order to cut down on it's own manufacturing prices. To stem this wave of migration, Microsoft sales reps have offered to cut prices which are currently at a market low of $0 to Microsft, down to -$100. This will be accomplished by reimbursing other customers of Microsoft.....
*beep beep beep beep*
Damn stupid alarm, why did you wake me up!!!
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
but I felt that Gentoo had a more active community and a quicker turn-over in the development cycle.
active community, yes. quick turn-over in development cycle? it all depends on how the dice roll that day. gentoo is young sure, but it's laden with bugs all over the place. you like AA fonts in x? ya might not want to upgrade your system right now. the stable ebuilds don't work 1/2 the time, and those that do give software that doesn't work quite right. it's a good concept and i can't wait till it gets to the "apt-get" stage of being able to always have an uptodate system.
This reminds me the situation with IBM and their main-frame competitors, Amdahl and Fujitsu. The simplest thing to get a steep discount from IBM was to have a meeting with IBM salesperson while having either Amdahl or Fujitsu brochure on your desk. Worked like a charm! Yet with this practice widespread, it has slowly downed to all IBM customers that they pay too much in a first place, and may be they should look for mainframe alternatives. That was about 10-15 years ago. I hope the same will happen with Microsoft customers.
I can't even wrap my brain around this..
Here's my list of things a small business needs:
Paper - $400
Pencils/Pens - $100
staplers - $200
binders - $200
PC's - $200/ea
OS - $200/ea - DIFFERRED PAYEMENTS!
Printers - $3000
ACCPAC Accounting - $12,000
Rent - $2000/mo
Do I have a distorted view of the world?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Been said before. Looking at the price structure of linux products, you might suppose that the cost for a high quality operating system, GUI, and office suite is now somewhere between $0 and $100, depending on your mood. So, you conclude that the price of the same for M$ needs to drop from the $300 to $600 range (depending on what academic or volume discounts you get) to $100 or less.
Then you further conclude that M$'s revenue should also drop by a factor of 3 or 4, unless they are real quick with innovative products or equally innovative legal action. And follow that with calculations about what the stock price should be, what the per share book value of the company is, and muse about whether the market really prices stocks efficiently. Adjust your portfolio accordingly.
I bet there will be a sudden demand for Linux gurus next week. Not for conversions, but for "studies" of potential conversions, so the companies can reap the new "Linux discounts" from Microsoft.
If you're idle, this might be a good time to set up a "switch to Linux" consulting business.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
After trying OSX, I am sure Microsoft has nothing to worry about. That is the worst Operating SYstem I have ever used. Windows is a heck of a lot faster, and WAY MORE STABLE!
don't forget about IBM
About 10 - 20 posts back the SAME GUY is making other - similar claims.
This "ekrout" guy smells like a fish.
Monopolies raise prices, more details at nine !
Surely this should be from the 'Economics 101' department.
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
Actually this is incorrect. The SEC filings are incredibly misleading. For example, Windows XP get's all of it's technology from the server team, so it therefore doesn't have to do a whole lot of R&D for the kernal and things like that. That's just one of many examples of how it's difficult to track profits within each MS department.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Good God.
... well, shit, there weren't any computers at school.
Back when I was in high school, all the computers were
Although by my Senior year, we did have some Apple IIs. They were networked by a sophisticated sneakerNet that had physical authentication (so-called "room keys") plus an implicit web-of-trust system based upon the user themself (not even their UID!).
Ah, those were the days.
Today, my phone has over 10 times the system clock speed that my home computer did then, 2048 times more memory, and over four times more addressable screen pixels (not to mention that they're 4-bit pixels on the phone, and were 1-bit pixels on the machine)!
Strange world.
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
Cost cutting measures are abound at ms!
Can now only fund 3 world domination plans rather than 5.
Balmer can only use anti-persperent at a 1/3 of the conventions rather than 1/2 of them.
Ms can only afford to leak a document every other Halloween now.
Will be forced to change the name to 'Window'.
It would take a week to install gentoo on a 486 / P1 class machine.
Source base distro's aren't for installing onto a lab of machines, I know you can take binary builds and re-distribute.. but come on.. how much work is that? Redhat or Mandrake would make 100x more sense in this scenerio.
Frankly, I think ur full-o-shit.
I've been an avid user of Linux for 8 years now. I've always loved it as a server environment, but as a user/desktop environment, It's been a bittersweet relationship. This has kept me using windows for day to day tasks (minus pine of course, because pine RULES). However, many distros, including redhat, mandrake, Lindows, etc, have been including the very mature Gnome and KDE environments. In another attempt to move myself away from MS's products, I decided to try Redhat 7.3. Great install, found all of my hardware (none of which I had chosen from Linux compatibility lists), and the new KDE 3.0 desktop is great! I have almost fully moved away from Windows. Really, my Windows box is just a file server, via SMB/Samba, and there are a couple of games I have that I play on there. That's it. A viable workstation environment, and difficult install, in my opinion, has been what's held Linux back. I am glad to see this to be changing, and even happier to see that Linux is promoting competitive strategies in the OS market. Granted, this is one very small example, but it's nice to see a HUGE power like MS taking note of all of the hard work that the developers involved with GNU software, the Linux kernel, and other open source efforts have put forth.
Instant Karma's gonna get you...
What exactly are they discounting?
I though the price stays the same, but you have a longer period to pay for it.
Does anyone know exactly how much a 3yr SA license for XP Home costs?
Wow, Microsoft sales still knows how to identify an up and coming competitor and go to work on them. Forget all that anti-trust hubbub, its business as usual.
Of course, by annoucing this to the press, Lindows is probably going to make out for the better, given all the attention. If Microsoft is willing to discount to fight Lindows then it might be worth checking out.
If companies realize that the ticket to getting lower oem rates is to sell computers with lindows or any other linux distro preinstalled, there will be more retaillers doing exactly that, if only to take advantage of the price breaks. This means they'll be on the shelf and people might buy them.
I've noticed lately that Fry's has started to sell a system with some distro of linux pre-installed, complete with free versions of every office based application imaginable, for a grand total of $199. With that low of a price, there might be some people who buy it just to find out what this whole linux thing is all about. Microsoft might be giving other retailers an excuse to do so as well. So let them shoot themselves in the foot if they want to.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Last year MS sent me some happy-ass brouchure asking for info about what platforms we use so they could "better serve us". I replied that we use linux everywhere except the desktop and we're trying hard there too. Basically, told 'em to piss off and die, but politely. The very next day the sales rep called up and said they wanted to enforce the clause in our Office 2k site license that says they can audit us whenever they damn well please. Coincidence? Maybe. But I don't buy it. We're pretty good about keeping licenses up to date and all so it wasn't like the audit caught us with our pants down or anything, but it was a massive waste of time and effort. Lesson learned: when dealing with MS politely decline offers but don't mention why; do whatever is needed to avoid turning one's self into a target for the software cops. 'Tis far better to stay under their radar.
ehintz
I once heard, that if MS wanted to, they could cut the cost of Windows to free, and they would continue to generate large sums of income owing from the Office Suite, Server Suites (Exchange, SQL, etc). I think they were speaking of the desktop- home.
I've heard that they have so much cash in the bank that they could cease taking in any income altogether, and continue spending money at the same rate as they have been plus any spending increases along the same percentage of growth as they have been over the past years, and continue to operate in business for at least 5 years before they have to worry about running low of cash in the bank.
Hold on, if Microsoft is a monopoly, then surely it wouldn't be sensitive to such competition.
Is this fact perhaps implying that Lindows is just the first competitor that's actually threatening?
The net impact on MS's bottom line from a few sites holding out for discounts will be negligible. The precident this sets _could_ be monumental. Hidden in the pricing of any product is the message that the product is worth the price. Any time the seller fiddles with a price, they erode the value of the product. If 1% of the population gets the product at 50% off, and everyone else knows it, most of the population will see the product as overpriced for its value.
/or employees, a ~40% fraction of their shareholders start dumping stock. All employees who don't dump fall back to the middle class. Big time employee dissatisfaction.
One of the hidden messages in the Linux Meme is that the retail price of world class operating systems, and office suites is $0/copy. Imagine the price erosion on cars if there were free ones available.
The existance of Linux/Lindows has pulled at a thread. MS's cash cows are OS's and Office Suites. (kinda funny how this is the area of recent attack by the Open Source Community:-).
If MS's margin of profit on these two areas falls, then all their business plans are threatened. If these areas are only marginally profitable, the natural condition in a competative market, then there is little cash left over to preditate other areas. If cash is tight, them MS can't afford the current level of post sales support. That will hurt in the long run. If their cash reserves are depleted in the fight, then their stock price could fall. If the stock price falls, then the options which they pay their employees becone worthless
Here's the Meme, the talking point: The fair market price of world class OS's, Office suites, web servers, Mail Servers, RDBMS;s etc is $0/copy.
Find a loose thread, pull it.
this is a new way for microsoft to make money!!!
1) Cut prices
2) ????
3) More Profit
A man/woman/turing device after my own heart.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Did that get your attention? Good. We'll get to that (misleading) headline in a moment.
i d=240429) entitled "Microsoft to promote open-source software in Japan". This time, they are promoting their "Shared Source Initiative". Which we all know is *not* the same as open source.
There is no discount, people. ZDNet had the story under a similar headline (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-975399.html) with the misleading headline of "Microsoft targets defectors with discounts". If you read that article, it becomes clear that Open Value is an extended payment plan for bad old Licensing 6. Aside from stretching your payments out (thereby "lowering" them), you pay the same money as Licensing 6 plus interest, and have all the wonderful disadvantages of Licensing 6. The only discount at all is a potential 0% financing you might get if you drag your feet and throw a screaming temper fit. Licensing 6 saves you money (only in Ballmer's head) while it costs you more (minimum 33% to 107%).
The people they are targeting are the 66% of their customers smart enough not to fall for Licensing 6. Don't fall for this either, unless your only objection to Licensing 6 was the lack of a payment plan with an interest escape clause based on your temper throwing skills.
As for Microsoft promoting Open Source, that was the subject of an article by Japan Today (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&
I don't know whether Microsoft is purposely sending out a lot of misleading press releases or we have had a really bad press day today, but that sure is a lot of misinformation being spread for just one day. Just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read, especially if it is based on an MS press release.
Chief Tsujimori: "I won't let you get away. I will never let you escape."
Godzilla elegantly lifts his tail skyward to give her the "finger", crashes it down on the water, and submerges.
"Godzilla X Megagiras", 2000
Why wasn't Microsoft split again? It seems since this whole trial got done, they're now twice as evil as they used to be.. Everything they do is based around their Windows OS profits.. They can lose billions on giving away XBoxs to destroy the console industry into nothingness, they can buy out whoever they want made them stop making software so they can use their own.. They can give away everything for free that other companies are trying to make a profit on to drive them out.. It's a load of BS. It needs to be stopped.
Nothing new here. Bill Gates will take as much money as you are dumb enough to give him.
Of course, you should give to Microsoft. It's kind of like a charity that benifits people in India with aids. Bill Gates and mother Therisa were good friends you know. Also benifited are the children of the USA! Previous previous licensing deals and last summer's anouncement to end accademic discounts tell the whole story of the gift that keeps giving.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Here in New Zealand, the incumbent (ex govt owned) has the monopoly on the 'last mile' local loop. This means the actual line that goes into the houses, businesses etc is owned by one company. While there was supposed to be clauses in the sale contract to prevent abuse of this power, Telecom of course found ways around it. A competitor, TelstraClear, built networks in Christchurch and Wellington and offered the same or better services for 25% less cost, and guess what happened? Telecom replied in the same way Microsoft have, and matched them pricewise in the locales they were operating in. Perhaps if either company had product offerings that were truely worth the premium being charged, this would not have been their response.
Competition is the best, or perhaps the only way of reducing supernormal profits in a free-market economy. However, even this still relies on true free-market structure, which as long as humans, with bounded rationality and cognitive limits, are a part of, will never really happen. Barriers to entry (such as owning the 'last mile' or having the dominant software standards) will always be present, especially in countries where dollars have their own language.
The Mothership
Revolting end users? ;p
I think I will stay with the end users we have now, at least some of them are good looking.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
It seems they only figure on it when buying a
small reputable company whose good name they can
use to deceive an existing customer base until
they run it into the ground.
Treating customers as prey instead of peer
plants a deep desire for escape, and free Open
Source is a widening doorway. No surprise that
many are heading out.
The TCO of MS will become comparable to Linux. Now, we just have to get the high admin and Office costs down.
I love it :)
I don't know how you do the comparison, but
paying for all the GNU/Linux compilers, interpreters,
server software, web apps, databases, and editors, at comprable
market prices the bill should be very expensive. Several thousant dollars, minimum!
wtf! its not like you're buying a car or something?!!??! its a damn OS and office suite!
guess we'll just have to start offering 0% financing on linux too. doh! too late.
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
There was a story on Slashdot a while back about it. See.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Over the course of the next 2 years, I suspect, that the true cost of MS will come out as companies that convert will be profitable and those that do not, will have HIGH costs (may still be profitable, though). That is the word of the profits.
Back in high school, every computer in the entire building was running Windows 98.
Hah! Back in my high school, every computer in the building was running a BASIC interpreter, which we could type programs to over a 1200 baud teletype. Did I mention there was only one computer, and it occupied the entire building?
Edith Keeler Must Die
I'm not willing to pay $99 for beta-open-source-software [especially considering the high quality of many other distros]
M$ knew this would make a stir but did not want to advertise any of those other distros. How many people do you know who even know what a distro is, much less can name several. M$ is pointing toward what it gathers is the least attractive alternative as a making themselves look better. They would never point them toward Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Caldera, Mandrake, Net/Free/OpenBSD. What they are pointing them to is a "discount" distro sold at Walmart that's doing everything it can to look and act like windows.
It does not matter. The cat's out of the bag and Microsoft is gonna get it. They really have pushed people too far and been, well, evil. They, not the government nor Slashdot nor the mass media, proved their nature with EULAs and pricing. Good riddiance M$.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
However, my family uses Windows. Most of my friends use Windows. Have I mentioned Linux? Of course. Have I forcibly converted them? Absolutely not.
Don't get me wrong -- Linux evangelization is a great thing. People should know that better software exists. But I simply don't understand the rationale of people who want to see Linux on everything. Frankly, I like Linux the way it is (was) -- almost an 'elite club' of computer geeks. I'm not implying that we shouldn't let people use Linux, or that we should keep it a closely guarded secret. I just don't see why we think that my grandma should run Linux -- yes, it can be very easy to use. But what does it matter if she runs Windows or Linux? Her box came with Windows, and it still runs Windows. Today, if it came with Linux, it might run Linux, but if it came with Windows, it would also run Windows.
The point of this lunatic diatribe is this: I think we should 'evangelize' Linux to some extent, but we should really rethink the "Linux on everything!" approach -- do we really want millions of people using Linux? (Applogies if this sounds like a troll, or some sort of insane rant... But I'm trying to pose a serious question.)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
lets see... microsoft is seeing customers go to free software, and then tries to match the price as best as possible. they figure their shit is better, but the customer wants a lower price. if a customer buys OS X, it is because they want OS X and not Windows because they are similarly priced. Microsoft sales reps cant do anything here, the DEVELOPERS have to make windows beter than OS X to win these customers back.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
The idea of a Praeadamite race "was first raised to notice by Isaac Peyrere, who in 1655 published his book styled 'Praeadamitae.' He pretended to find his Praeadamites in Rom. 5:l2-14. The heathen, according to him, are the Praeadamites, being, as he supposed, created on the same day with the beasts, and those whose creation is mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis. Adam, the father of the Jews, was not created until a century later, and is the one who is mentioned in the second chapter. Since the time of Peyrere, this hypothesis has been exhibited more connectedly; and has been asserted independently of the authority of Moses; or in other words it has been asserted that the human race is older than Moses represents it." [Knapp's Chris. Theol., p. 185.]
So far as this hypothesis is confined to the past existence of other races of men who had passed away when Adam was created, or who were at least destroyed before or at the flood, it may be admitted as a possibility. There is no direct statement of Scripture to the contrary. Any proof which would make it certain, or even probable, may be admitted. But while this is possibly, it is not probably true. Nothing in Scripture, not even with great violence, can be wrested to its support. The account of creation and the manner in which the Adam there created is spoken of is contrary to any idea that the creations in the first and second chapters of Genesis are of any but the one race. The scientific evidence as to the method of God's creations concurs with the biblical in furnishing no proof that God has ever created the same animals at different periods, or from any other than one original source of each species. While these facts, therefore, are not conclusive against the possibility of more than one creation of human beings, they render it highly improbable.
But so far as this is intended to deny the unity of the present race, and to declare that any portion of it is not of Adamic origin, it is directly contrary to the Word of God.
1. Because the Scriptures trace the race of men now existing back to Noah, and through him to Adam.
2. Because they teach also that all others, except the eight saved in the Ark, were destroyed by the flood. If any other races of men existed before that time, which is not probable, they must then have been destroyed with the others of the Adamic race.
3. They not only speak of all mankind in general as though of this one race, but declare expressly that God "made of one every nation of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation." Acts 17:26. The King James version has "Made of one blood." This is especially emphatic because spoken to the Athenians, who claimed a special, separate origin from others.
4. The Scriptures account for the universal sinful condition of men, by not only a representative, but natural relation to Adam.
5. Salvation from sin is offered through Christ as the second Adam, whose fitness for his work was secured, not only by his representative relation, but also by his assumption of the same nature with man. Therefore his genealogy in Luke is traced back to Adam. It was also to "the whole creation," Mark 16:15, that Christ commanded his gospel to be preached, and "of all the nations," Matt. 28:19, that he ordered disciples to be made.
Science accords with Revelation in teaching the unity of the race.
1. It shows that among all men are the same essential characteristics which make a man. This is denied by none. There is the same outward form and inward structure, and also like mental and moral characteristics.
2. While variations in each of these respects unquestionably exist, they are all within the limits of a single species.
The science of Comparative Zoology shows:
(1.) That species are capable of great variations.
(2.) That the variations may become permanent.
(3.) That under favourable circumstances, with the lapse of time, this permanence becomes more and more fixed, and incapable of return to the original type.
(4.) That, however, there is after all a tendency to return, which develops itself under similar conditions with those of the original state.
(5.) That while offspring from parents of different species is possible, that offspring is itself either altogether unfruitful, or, as Dr. Cabell says, "the fertility is partial and temporary, rarely, if ever, extending through more than two generations." [Unity of Mankind, p.77.]
(6.) That the variations in man are at least equalled by those in other species.
Dr. Bachman asserts that "every vertebrated animal, from the horse down to the canary bird and gold-fish, is subject, in a state of domestication, to very great and striking varieties, and that in the majority of species these varieties are much greater than are exhibited in any of the numerous varieties of the human race." [Doctrine of the Unity of the Human Race, p. 181, quoted by Dr. Cabell in Unity of Mankind, p.34.] "Blumenbach," says Cabell, p. 33, "long ago pointed out the great difference between the cranium of the domestic swine and that of the primitive wild boar, and remarked that this difference is quite equal to that which has been observed between the skull of the Negro and the European."
(7.) That the various races of men, when they intermarry, produce offspring which is itself continuously fruitful.
(8.) That while the Negro type of man, the most distinct, and the one showing the greatest variety from the Caucasian or white race, may be traced far back in the monumental history of Egypt, then is no delineation of it in the earliest records for nearly fifteen hundred years. This is admitted by Nott and Gliddon in their Types of Mankind, p. 259, though these writers speak of the Negro "as contemporary with the earliest Egyptians." [See Cabell, p. 91-92.]
3. The science of Comparative Philology also supports the doctrine of the unity of the human race. This science is as yet in its infancy, but has grown vigorously daring the short period of its existence. Already the languages of men have been reduced by some to four, by others to three, and yet by others to two different forms, and the tendency is to connect all language with some one common source. Whether this can be done or not is uncertain. The position is at least conceded that variety in language does not militate against the unity of mankind. It may be impossible to establish absolute unity of speech. The confusion at Babel renders this not improbable. But the investigations of this science show that the idea of several separate physical origins of the race is not true, because the grouping of men, as to physical race, does not correspond with the grouping rendered necessary by their different languages.
Prof. Whitney, who believes that the science of philology cannot now, or ever, decide either for or against this unity, says "it does not seem practicable to lay down any system of physical races which shall agree with any possible scheme of linguistic races. Indo-European, Semitic, Scythian and Caucasian tongues are spoken by men whom the naturalist would not separate from one another as of widely diverse stock; and on the other hand, Scythian dialects of close and indubitable relationship, are in the mouths of people who differ as widely in form and feature, as Hungarians and Lapps, while not less discordance of physical type is to be found among the speakers of various dialects belonging to more than one of the other great linguistic families." [Language and the Study of Language, p. 370.] The fact of this intermingling of dialects and races shows a common origin beyond the time of physical and linguistic changes. Thus do the two sciences, which were once so antagonistic to the doctrine of the unity of mankind, combine with each other to establish its truth.
I don't know of any large enterprise that is worth dealing with for Microsoft would actually use Lindows.
/etc/passwd remoteserver:/etc'), not enough clustering and fault tolerance support, poor choices for centralized management, etc.
When you care about your business, you don't buy a crescent wrench to use as a hammer. Any business in their right mind that relies on Microsoft software is going to run that software on Windows.
I wonder if this article was written by an armchair Linux enthusiast with the ever infamous penguin tunnel vision. Linux is great for workgroups and closets, and it absolutely sucks in the enterprise. No decent distributed user store (OpenLDAP is NOT decent for production enterprise environments, nor is 'scp
You know, in the world of marketing, any press is good press most of the time. It's a good possibility that by the posting of this story, here and elsewhere, it is going to help MS. I can see some people now, "Wow, Boss, I just saw this article on Slashdot. I just mention Linux, and I can get that copy of XP server we haven't been able to afford for 50% off"
Instant Karma's gonna get you...
1) jimb writes
2) "Yahoo! reports:
3) 'What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps
4) instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that...
5) they can request authorization from Microsoft higher-ups to offer steeply discounted pricing."'
Isn't this a little bit TOO detached from the original source? This post sounds an awful lot like saying "A friend of a friend of this guy he knows heard that..."
--
Slashdot, news FROM nerds, Stuff that Matters
Well, let's see. Microsoft first drove Digital Research's superior DOS to near-oblivion by allowing IBM XT buyers to choose MS-DOS for free or to pay for DR DOS via a very low priced bundle deal (read nearly free) with IBM.
When GeoWorks had a workable competitor to 16-bit Windows, MS had nearly-free DOS/Windows bundle deals with almost every OEM.
When MS charged for IE, before Windows 95, and Netscape troubled them, they incorporated it into the OS, so it was free as in without extra cost.
Intel is doing the same thing. When the heat was still on them just after their favorable anti-trust judgment, they allowed AMD to gain almost 5-per cent market share. Now that the heat from the Feds is off, and the heat from the investors is up, they are disallowing AMD market share by dropping prices so low AMD has to sell at a loss.
Every monopolist does this.
__
I have seen war. You will not like it.
MS WXP noperating system (two years)... 100usd
MS Office... 350 usd
Antivirus (1 year)... 40 usd
Optimizers... 40 usd
Download Manager.. 15 usd
WinRar... 30 usd
128M of aditional RAM... 20 usd
Stay late at work cause your PC do anyting...
is priceless
Why should I care if my OS costs $200 or $100 or $0. The price is small compared to the length of time that you use it.
/.
Its more about ease of use, if the OS is difficult to set up and maintain, why would I use it just to save a few $.
That's why I use Linux, not because it saves me a $100, but because I find it annoys me less than windows.
I am much more productive with Lunix, that's why I have all this free time to post meaningless stuff on
...Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs...
The Plaintiffs were the USDOJ. I am a US citizen and they were acting on my behalf, therefore I am a plaintiff. I want to see the price schedule.
Any lawyers out there looking for a challenge?
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
to turn a profit.
1) give OS at *deep* discounts.
2) flood the market with the OS
3) charge an arm and a leg for the industry standard Office Suite that runs on the OS.
4) profit
Since when Microsoft has competition?? Just because a
few shops went to Linux, this does not mean that Microsoft
now has any serious competitors. The truth is
in the numbers were Microsoft has complte domination.
Speculations about the future is one thing, but
unless the numbers change these imaginary competitors exist
only in the chambers of Slashdot.
Business reduces price of product in response to competition!
How horrible. Next thing you know Intel might cut prices in response from AMD. When will those capitalistic pigs learn?
Hah!!! Peace through killing people and destroying their property with Blackhawk helicopters and other American-made weapons.
So has everyone sent that article to their company's IT department?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Check out that third or fourth definition. (www.dictionary.com and search for poser)
Lindows is just a poser distribution.
SK
It's called competition... and now it's saving M$ customers some hard-earned money. Attention $heep: take your "savings" from lowered OS costs and realize that's how much you have been sheared all these years as M$ has driven DRDOS/Novell/OS2/BeOS from the market...
What's a kernal?
As one of my friends who groks economics puts it, the first benefit of being a monopoly is that you can charge monopolistic prices, q.v. the 700% profit margins on Windows and Office. The links for those articles have already been posted, and I will not repost them. I think that the fact that Microsoft has to lower prices in response to Linux is one more piece of evidence of Linux's legitimacy as a competitor to Microsoft.
I am preaching to the choir, but so what.
Maybe by the time Longhorn comes out it'll be sitting on the shelves at Fry's for $74.99. Of course, Linux will still be cheaper, and come with more software (the hypothetical Longhorn is not expected to come with Office, IIS, etc)
how about the fact that ekrout goes to bucknell and is a computer science major, I give you this:
Attention: Ekrout is a known karma-whoring Slashdot troll
For the uninitated, erickrout is the kid who crapflooded Kuro5hin for months on end with at least a half-dozen accounts. For a long time, he dominated the Hidden Comments page with an interminable list of racist, sexist, homophobic, and completely self-absorbed comments.
Eric Krout lives behind the protective mask of EricKrout.com but in reality is a professional slashdot troll only posting for unknown evil. Eric has been spotted on trolltalk attempting to be added to "troll back", a daily newsletter that rates how well various trolls have posted and karma-whored on slashdot.
Whatever EricKrout might tell you in his posting is not true. He merely puts on a different facade for every article attempting to rack up mod points for no other reason than the fact that he is a self-absorbed punk kid.
In conclusion, if you are moderating or replying to this comment, I caution you, it is 100% untrue.
--the eric krout troll
"revealing the unrevealed since 2002"
The surprising thing is that this still results in a surprisingly high profit margin: say on a $100 sale they have an 85% profit margin, that means that the product cost them $15. If you cut the price to $50, then the profit margin is ($50-$15)/$50= 70%.
Now granted, that's a 70% slice of a smaller pie, but they're still nowhere near losing money on a 50% price cut. They'd have to drop the price by 70% to get to a 50% profit margin. ( the profit margin drops almost asymptotically as you approach $15)
There is still, however, the question of whether these price cuts fit within the DOJ consent decree. I too would like to see an opinion on that question.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
what if xxx CEO states "we're currently contemplating upgrading our computer infrastructure. We are running some studies and are contemplating thee benifits of Linux as a possible replacement for windows."
this isn't a very good strategy at all on MS's part. Have a standard competiive price. If they see the competition is lower priced, price there or close. All this does is encourage CEO's to "think" they want Lindows, and then get steeply discounted MS products.
what happened to spell check? please decode the above comment to your best ability.
Since many businesses shall be tempted to try to obtain a discount by playing like they're seriously considering Linux. In playing this, some of them might actually consider it the first time and even get charmed by the idea (discounts from MSFT or not).
Also, the message that MSFT sends with this (now publicly known) policy is that they consider Linux to be an extremely dangerous competitor. This must put some companies to think.
To elaborate, and if memory serves me, which it does not do very well these days...
The definition for division is not defined independently-- division is defined as the inverse of multiplication. When you compute c=a/b, you are saying "find me a number c, so that c*b=a".
So when you compute 1/0, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=1". Since any number multiplied by 0 is 0, no such number exists. So if memory serves 1/0 is said to be "undefined"
However, when you computer 0/9, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=0". Now any number x can fulfill this condition, so 0/0 is said to be indeterminate
I believe that if you have a high school algebra problem where the answer comes out to n!=0/0 you can stop and answer "undefined" but if the answer comes out to 0/0 you still need to do some work to arrive at the final answer.
My god, I still remember this. I'm amazed and shall buy myself a beer.
Does this mean your Grandma is going to be hanging round the local LUG and submitting kernel patches any time soon? Not likely. Is it going to stop you from running Slackware with the latest development kernel, the CVS DRI version, a leaked beta of Quake VII running under the daily snapshot of WINE and the custom voice recognition project you're working on (Grandma's fingers are getting a bit arthritic, after all)? No. Is Grandma's Linux desktop going to affect yours one iota. No - except the money the grandmas of the world pay to Redhat and the like will support a whole lot more software development that you'll be able to take advantage of, and will ensure that hardware manufacturers get with the program and make sure their gear works under Linux.
So, yes, Linux (or more to the point free software) on everything helps you, and it helps Grandma, and isn't going to stop the 'elite club' from existing.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
I remember the horror story I lived through activating my RedHat 7.2 install last week. Must have taken hours on the phone with the folks at RedHat to get the license key to work.
Oh wait, that was Crystal Reports, never mind...
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
"To qualify, businesses have to have an installation of LindowsOS machines and/or sign-up for the LindowsOS builder program (www.lindows.com/builders) and"
Me thinks this is a Lindows.com ploy to sell more Lindows:). I mean, why the focus on Lindows when RH and Man are bigger threats. Sneaky, though, and I bet even if MS didn't have such a policy, they soon would implement one.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Neat! How'd you do that? Every time I attempt to divide by zero I get a Blue Screen of Death! :)
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What MS is doing is offering the discounted software and then in a year or two raping you when it is time to upgrade. You want Exchange Titanium? You need to buy .net server and btw the is no discount this time. :-)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A few decades ago, shrewd customers made sure there was always an Amdahl mug sitting somewhere in the room when IBM came to call.
Seems as if there is, at the very least, an opportunity to sell some Linux Journal subscriptions and Tux merchandise to Microsoft shops, if for no other reason than to have strategically visible when Microsoft comes around to negotiate license terms.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
After the math error was found, I thought Intel was trading good for bad Pentiums...
What else is there besides Lindows? Well, a couple weeks ago I saw a demo of Xandros at a local college, and it blew my socks off. I just wish it would run Lotus Notes ver 6 (and supposedly they're working on getting it to install and run now) and I could start deploying it at work in lieu of Win 9x/NT4/2k right now since it'll run every other one of our core business apps (O2K, Oracle Forms stuff, other various Win32 apps). SuSE has already announced a similar project in the works and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear if RH and Mandrake have a similar project in the works too.
2003 is going to be a very exciting year for Linux.
I have not (yet) been targeted by the BSA folks, but if/when they call, here is my response:
We have been quietly migrating most of our servers to Linux, and we are evaluating a Linux desktop as well. When our CFO gets wind of the cost of complying with your little "audit", he will hit the roof. When the friendly folks in the IT department offer OSS products and the CFO evaluates the savings, Microsoft in our company will be DOA. If you're serious about auditing us, do it quickly. Otherwise, there will be no M$ products to audit.
If threatening to switch is what triggers the new M$ discounts, I figure it would be a suitable prescription for the BSA headache as well.
there is no thing
what else could you want?
I'd imagine that some of this is still in *cough* support contracts, add-ons, etc etc.
Of course, that's often how many linux systems get money, that and donation.
Microsoft support is about as strong as a bra with a broken strap - phorm
Job isn't in their market and it doesn't interest him in the least.
M$ is starting to see defection to Linux and resistence to their subscription schemes, flat or negative PC sales as good enough is good enough for users.
It doesn't help sales that all of the bells and whisles M$ is bundling into the OS are things that businesses definitely don't want their employeer playing with at work and most PCs are owned by corporations.
People are scared to upgrade even more than they are of getting viruses. As Linux gets more respect for security and M$ slowlky strangles users' machines with unused feature-itis the desertions will accelerate.
Since M$ has always assumed that revenues would always grow and all of their financial planning is based on this fallacy. Meanwhile hardware sales are in replacement mode (flat) and upgrades are meeting solid walls (negative territory.)
Revenue will crash at some point and M$ has no real assets compared to manufacturing companies. The X-Box is a money loser. Their partnerships are non-producing. The competition is getting tougher. Users are getting fed up. The economy sucks and price points are getting too tight to keep a resource hog like M$ in business. All things being equal, like admin costs... Linux is free acquisition.
When the end comes, it will be stunningly quick.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I have used them all and Lindows is my fav. Lindows is doing things right. Click-N-Run is brilliant, and just what Linux needs. It's a big jump past command-line apt-get.
Mark F
I think Microsoft's efforts ultimately are futile. But, nevertheless, they are trying hard: Palladium, proprietary media formats, proprietary document formats, exclusive distribution agreements, non-PC hardware (X-box, Mira, TabletPC, PocketPC, etc.) are all attempts at excluding open source. Add to that some heavy political lobbying, PR, monopolistic practices, campaign contributions, and who knows what other sleazy efforts. With that, they have had some modest short term successes.
Even if you set aside the cost of the OS, something like Open Office has the potential to save the computing world a bundle of money that even Bill Gates would call more than a few bucks. I'm not sure who's more repugnant these days, MS or the RIAA. Neither is making many friends lately, and I think both would benefit from standing back a bit and smelling the coffee.
On a related note, Linux cut prices again. For everyone.
-----
Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton
A company you do business with has been forking you over a barrell on price, the instant that they realize you found something less expensive, they drop their price.
What amazes me, is that after KNOWING you've been forked over a barrel for months, years, DECADES, you go back to that vendor with open arms.
Speaking from experience. I am a technical sales specialist. We come in with our LIST price and it's LESS than the competitor is giving them. They just go back to the Competitor who drops it to 2% below our LIST price and they think they got a deal.
Un-Forking believeable.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I work for a big company and after years and years of talking about Linux, it's finally accepted in lower management AND middle management. Us, the tech people, finally have a word on what OS we want to install for different tasks. Of course, most of us are lazy bastards that don't want to touch their servers unless it is to install them or put them out of commission. SO we push Linux. The thing is that management has not understood yet that you don't have to spend money on an OS and they insist that we buy support and use RedHat. So we end up buying SUpport from red Had even if we don't use it. The good thing is that they do not know what we truly install ;)
So my point is that eve if they gave Windows whatever adcanced server, we would have to be bribed big time for us to install MS OS on servers.
Alcoholics Anonymous? Gee whats next MSindows "If you can't beat them join them and hope that Linux can handle our instablilty"
That's what the security updates are for.
However, I think I'd be much more worried about the undocumented security bugs.
I've got all your software and guess what? It was FREE FREE FREE. I didn't pay you one red cent. Windows for Data center? Right here baby. I have nothing to run it on, but I have the CD(s) in my hot little hands. Guess what, I'm making images to send them over to some friends in an undisclosed 3rd world country so they can make copies for their friends. Guess what, I've modified them so each and every one has a back door that when it receives a UDP packet on a secret port will launch a DOS attack against you Bill. Yep, every one of your IP blocks listed in arin,ripe,apnic. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
-Billy Boy Gates, Bills half brother (emphasis on the word brother if you get my drift).
You want to see a _high_ profit margin, look at Bath & Body.
Microsoft has *nothing* on those people. I once calculated that
their votive candles cost 1000% more than at another store where
I usually buy them (which, admittedly, has especially good prices
and is probably not marking up more than 10-20% or so; still, even
if Deane's is selling them at cost, 1000% is incredible markup).
I suspect the colored soaps are marked up even more than that.
Not that the people who run an individual Bath & Body location
probably make most of that markup; it all comes branded and
labelled from their chain, so the markup is probably being done
at that level. But _somebody_ is making a serious killing.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
2003 is going to be a very exciting year for Linux. Someone get up and whack the turntable... this record is stuck.
OK, that's fair, every year someone will delcare it the next year the year Linux "reaches the mainstream." For some people it was 97, for others it was '93. That's because different people understand at different times. Most people understand that M$ is an illegal monoply and uses their position to crush other makers of software. Sooner or later they understand about free software and realize that no one needs traditional closed source software vendors. It usually happens when the user gets aquainted with free software then understands it's better than the stuff they have been paying for. Every year that passes when free software does not become universal is amazing to them.
Yet, every year has been exciting. Each year new projects are born, improve and mature. Each year brings amazing new tools. More organizations see the benifits and convert, Schools, Banks, Government Offices. The word is moving slowly, but surely.
It's always fun to play with you, Sheldon. You are always so offensive, yet harmlessly clueless.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Lindows has won several court battles with MS over the "Windows" copyright infringement lawsuit. This is probably just retribution on MS's part for Lindows winning.
50% discount? Congratulations you will only pay a 350% markup. Gouge them at cost price, and it's about 13% that you should pay, or 87% discount. Of course, this only has an effect if everyone gets that same discount.
Now, I'm probably about to go off topic. And I am not proclaiming to be absolutely right, or that this is *the secret to making money* and I am not some sort of left wing/right wing/nazi (no offence to those who are) but there's a lot of businesses that practice these principles - maybe even you. The 'ancient art of war' for making money goes like this:
Why do this? Well, if all your costs are fixed, and you make $1 extra in revenue, then that is pure profit.
Think of your employer as a customer for a while. The equivalent, from your perspective, to what most software companies currently do (sell upfront, support @15%) would be to take $150K upfront and get $7.5K per year to work for 3 years - assuming a salary of $50K. Now, I would take that in a second for the same reason I buy lottery tickets for cash value. The time value of money. With a few choice equivalents to the EULA ;-)
But for software companies, they expect -and want- people to come back and buy again. The equivalent for you is that you *want* that company to 'hire you/pay you multiple times' during that 3 years and then at the end of the 3 years. IE, you could earn multiple salaries during the period and get hired all over again at the end of the 3 years. But of course, from the company's perspective, in the meantime, the sales people have b/s'ed the customer to get their commission, the professional services people have screwed things up and the product group doesn't deliver. What do you do in a similar situation? The analogy to the company again? You get fired. And you can bet that you can't keep that money as *you* weren't 'fit for purpose'. The company is going to hire someone else.
Now, there's a fair bit I didn't spell out here clearly, because it makes me sick that the easiest way for MS to bulletproof strategy is to post something on /.
But if you can turn MS' fixed costs into variable costs...
this.end_of_rant();
author.do_beer_refresh();
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
-T
It's booming for Linux on the desktop... but wait... look in the corner... one of the primary apps, Unigraphics, has yet to make an appearance... Is this because the management is friends with Bill? Dunno... but it's one more step away from a Linux desktop being a real part of the engineering world... Parasolid kernel was released (can we say gratuitous publicity during the tech boom?), but no Unigraphics to go with it... hmmm...
Unless Microsoft starts giving Windows away they'll never match the price of free software.
(As in beer)
But for those that do use Windows it could provide a significant discount by bluffing a switch to Linux.
Suggest it to your boss and be ready to come through when the ms salesmen dosen't bite... and he won't.
I don't actually exist.
Message to Microsoft:
"All your base are belong to us."
It's inevitable.
"Resistance is USELESS." (This is NOT a star trek reference for any new geeks in the crowd)
We've been saying it for years, Microsoft, and it's been inevitable for as long. Don't give up, though, because that would lower our satisfaction when we finally clean the floor with you.
Perhaps none of your friends are using OpenOffice.org, but when you look at the rest of the world, especially the sectors that pay for MSOffice, like Governments etc., you will find a lot that are seriously looking into using OpenOffice.org. There are very few individuals left on this planet who have not, at some point or another, been fucked hard my Microsoft. There are even less organistations. At some point after the Windows95 launch, Microsoft lost respect for their customers. Paying customers usually don't like to be treated as pirates and enemies. This drives people to look for other solutions. The EU, for example, is looking into formally standardising on the OpenOffice.org file format.
You'd be amazed how much you can see when you pull your head out of your ass.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Isn't dropping your prices a fairly normal way to deal with increased competition: supply and demand and all that? A couple of weeks ago we were complaining that MS's margins were too high. Now we're complaining that they are cutting their margins...
Sure, they are doing it selectively, but, if they did it across the board, it would really be bad news : does anyone think that Corel or anyone else could compete with XP Office for $50? That's cheaper than Star Office 6 in a box. And this is exactly what will happen if open source ever starts to dent their desktop market share.
Note in passing that breaking up MS would have made things worse in this respect, as the highly profitable OS and Office departments would not even had to carry the loss-making departments anymore, so they could slash prices even lower and still make a respectable profit.
The postings about Linux for $0 are funny, but miss the point that no OS change is free for a company with existing staff and data. If you take discounted MS products and set them against free Linux products plus the number of man hours needed to reskill your staff, the figures are closer than we might like to admit.
Virtually serving coffee
Oh no! They killed Kenny!
YOU BASTED!
cheap bytes has a copy of "pink tie" linux which is the redhat iso's burned to disc for you. these cost $7.00 and you can install them on as many computers as you want:
pink tie
if you are in the united states, it looks like shipping is $5.00. so you can essentially get redhat for $12.00 for as many computers as you want. if you have some friends you can each chipin and bring the cost down to $4.00 per person. while this cost is greater than zero, to businesses this is what would be called essentially zero.
-- john
...not unless he had 100 of the SAME machines, where he would a) build b) test c) clone.
gimme a break pal.
frankly, i think ur clueless.
Hah! Back in my high school, every computer in the building was running a BASIC interpreter, which we could type programs to over a 1200 baud teletype. Did I mention there was only one computer, and it occupied the entire building?
Hah! Hah! back in my high school every computer in the building was an ABACUS, which was operated by a student! We had to simulate the ALU of a CPU by arranging desks in the gymnasium (which was actually just a big cave beyond the river) - we would perform a binary addition and have to SPEAK to the person near us on the "BUS" with the result. It would take HOURS to add to long integers... and, due to the advanced Telephone Effect (tm) - there was a 99% error rate - we had to perform the calculation hundreds of times before we could be certain of the result...
We did this all without shoes in the snow, uphill both ways.
Bah! IC based computers running on electricity - we WERE THE CPU && ELECTRICITY!
clock cycles? shit, we could only process on the leading edge of the SUN!
Microsoft targets defectors to Linux
Defector?!?
I don't remember swearing allegiance to Microsoft.
Authors who refuse to port their apps to Windows are the ones making me use it. Death to Andre Wiethoff! [naah, just kidding, EAC is a great program.]
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't forget the MS balance sheet that was released a month or so ago - it showed their leading source of revenue was Windows, followed by Office. Everything else was negligible or lost money.
Microsoft can probably smell the gradual decline of both Windows and Office as their desktop monopoly diminishes. Thus the push forAlso, in August, the SEC told Microsoft that it had to start telling the truth about the functionality and security of MS-Passport. For some reason, we haven't heard about MS-Passport lately. Funny that.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
X windows:
The ultimate bottleneck.
Flawed beyond belief.
The only thing you have to fear.
Somewhere between chaos and insanity.
On autopilot to oblivion.
The joke that kills.
A disgrace you can be proud of.
A mistake carried out to perfection.
Belongs more to the problem set than the solution set.
To err is X windows.
Ignorance is our most important resource.
Complex nonsolutions to simple nonproblems.
Built to fall apart.
Nullifying centuries of progress.
Falling to new depths of inefficiency.
The last thing you need.
The defacto substandard.
Elevating brain damage to an art form.
X windows.
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...