They want us to do work for them. We should write them music. We should write them software. We should act in movies. We should spend weeks creating elaborate special effects.
For their entertainment. For their amusement. Tools for them to do business with. Games for them to play.
But they don't want to compensate us. They should have it all for free.
Because they want it. Because they decide what they should pay us for our labor. And they decide they don't want to pay at all.
I remember you guys coming to the web company I worked at to do a sales presentation back in the dot com boom days.
Salesman #1: We bring to you a technology called Content Management that will surely rock your world! Salesman #2: Truly! Your customers will be able to maintain their own site, it will make vegetables taste like candy, and it will very likely solve the (soon to be discovered) problem of global warming! Us: Sounds good! How much does it cost? Salesman #1: (pinky to face) One Hundred Billion Dollars! Salesman #2: How much do you have?
it seems to be a natural thing that a company that sells the glorification of violence and criminality would eventually become entangled in criminality.
I don't see this. You're saying that when someone creates a work of fiction that glorifies criminality, it makes them more likely to engage in criminal activity?
So by this logic, Martin Scorsese is probably up to no good? Perhaps he's beating someone to death with his Oscar as I type this?
Heh.. I went through a Warren Retrospective phase about a year ago. I replayed UU1, UU2, Deus Ex, and System Shock. I think I have a notebook with lizard man speak on my desk right now.
I also went back and replayed SS2, which wasn't his production, but did a great job at capturing the feeling of the original.
Since it was a demo, your sense of being blown away had probably more to do with Doug Church's programming genius than anything else. I'm not saying it wasn't a great game, it was, but the "wow" factor you describe can't really be soley attributed to Mr. Spector.
Don't get me wrong. The joy of all those games is that the programming was cutting edge, the art is amazing, the music is inspiring, the story is well written and compelling, the environments are immersive.
It takes many skilled people to put together a game like that, and they all deserve credit.
Long answer: This man has produced many of the best games of all time. I can remember loading the demo version of Ultima Underworld on my PC many many years ago, and being completely blown away.
Spector is always pushing the boundaries of technology, storytelling, and interactivity.
Ultima Underworld I and II, System Shock, Thief, and Deus Ex. I still think System Shock was one of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in a game.
And Deus Ex 2... he was the studio head, but not the producer.
Especially the part where you have to jump from one wire mesh wall to another while avoiding the flames and the rising water.
Exactly. That might have been the single most difficult move in the game. The other insane part is getting the sword throwers to place a sword at just the right place so you can ride it up the rotating backdrop and make a huge jump right to a platform.. Geez!
I really enjoyed the game up until the meat circus level. Then there are 2 sequences where you basically have to play perfectly for a period of about 5 minutes or start the sequence over from scratch. I'm talking about "Help the kid catch the bunny" and "Prove to your dad you are an acrobat".
It almost made me hate the game by the time I was done.
For what it's worth, I purchased it through Steam. On my 2 year old PC, the load times were acceptable... typically about 10 seconds. In the campground area you refer to you do hit a lot of load barriers though, and occasionally it gets annoying.
[We're so not 'enterprise' anything] But I'll say that for our small show, switching IT documentation over to a Wiki has been amazing.
* If you're looking at something, and it's wrong, you can change it without missing a beat. * There are no worries that you're using an old version of the documentation * It's got a search engine * All changes are versioned * We have all passwords information encrypted
If you make documenting something simple, people will document it. If you make it hard, people will not.
I use and contribute to free software, download free music, and watch free videos on YouTube. It's all groovy.
My stated point: Content costs money to create. Hard to argue with that one.
Some people can afford to swallow that cost and give their creation to the world. Say an amateur singer songwriter. Again, groovy.
There are many types of content that won't ever fit that model. A Pixar animated movie for example. Too many people working full time for too long.
There are people on slashdot, (perhaps you're not one of them) that thinks that a Pixar movie should be freely distributable. Why? Because they can and because the want to. I've just never been able to understand how they can justify this to the people that actually do the work to make the movie. I've seen how hard the average animator works... 60-80 hour weeks for months on end.
Well, if these people simply wanted to ignore the music industry, then there wouldn't be an issue, would there.
But they want to take what the music industry creates, and not pay for it.
"Your fact just isn't a fact." Well, if you want to chip off the smallest slice of content you can possibly think of, and then pretend that (a) these people's time isn't worth money, (b) the equipment they use to produce, record, edit and distribute their music doesn't cost money, then you might get away with that statement.
But music is just one type of content. Are you prepared to get all your video content from You Tube? No more full length movies, just America's funniest home videos? Do you want computer games to drop in sophistication to what we had back in the 1980s? Most of today's content can't be produced by one guy in his garage in his spare time.
It's true that amateur projects are more affordable today than they used to be. But content creation at the professional level keeps getting more expensive...
A high end video game now costs $10 million dollars to produce. Why? Because the exceptions for graphics, AI, physics, etc, just keep getting higher.
HD TV shows are expected to cost more money to produce than regular TV shows because the extra definition will require better sets, costumes, more expensive equipment.
A big special effects movie can cost hundreds of million dollars to make. Special effects teams work for weeks on a single "shot" of a film that might last for 5 seconds.
In short, as the technology gets better, our expectations for the content becomes greater, but the prices don't go down.
So, you're arguing that because it is easy to do, it should be legal/moral?
Your observation about the porn industry is odd too, since they all *charge* for their content, (the ones that don't are supported by advertising revenue from the ones that do). It's true that they don't waste a lot of time chasing copyright violators, but that's probably because they can produce their content cheaply enough that they don't need to. They can make money on $10 a month subscriptions.
People who want all their content for free ignore the fact that it takes money to create content. How do you get around this basic issue?
But reading the comments on this article make me realize just how many morons we have reading SlashDot. Actually, it would be nice if they stuck to just reading it.
I was just drinking my TenRen's hot green tea when I saw your post, and I thought that I should use my new Dell Dimension 9150 to point out that, not only are you right, but that it's been happening for some time now.
If you don't like the default cygwin command window, and don't need an X server for other reasons, you can run rxvt. It works quite well, and doesn't require X.
Slashdot Mirror
Haven't you figured this out yet?
They want us to do work for them. We should write them music. We should write them software. We should act in movies. We should spend weeks creating elaborate special effects.
For their entertainment. For their amusement. Tools for them to do business with. Games for them to play.
But they don't want to compensate us. They should have it all for free.
Because they want it. Because they decide what they should pay us for our labor. And they decide they don't want to pay at all.
http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/speakers/spe akers_phillips.php
Yeah, but you work for Vignette.
I remember you guys coming to the web company I worked at to do a sales presentation back in the dot com boom days.
Salesman #1: We bring to you a technology called Content Management that will surely rock your world!
Salesman #2: Truly! Your customers will be able to maintain their own site, it will make vegetables taste like candy, and it will very likely solve the (soon to be discovered) problem of global warming!
Us: Sounds good! How much does it cost?
Salesman #1: (pinky to face) One Hundred Billion Dollars!
Salesman #2: How much do you have?
it seems to be a natural thing that a company that sells the glorification of violence and criminality would eventually become entangled in criminality.
I don't see this. You're saying that when someone creates a work of fiction that glorifies criminality, it makes them more likely to engage in criminal activity?
So by this logic, Martin Scorsese is probably up to no good? Perhaps he's beating someone to death with his Oscar as I type this?
Heh.. I went through a Warren Retrospective phase about a year ago. I replayed UU1, UU2, Deus Ex, and System Shock. I think I have a notebook with lizard man speak on my desk right now.
I also went back and replayed SS2, which wasn't his production, but did a great job at capturing the feeling of the original.
Since it was a demo, your sense of being blown away had probably more to do with Doug Church's programming genius than anything else. I'm not saying it wasn't a great game, it was, but the "wow" factor you describe can't really be soley attributed to Mr. Spector.
Don't get me wrong. The joy of all those games is that the programming was cutting edge, the art is amazing, the music is inspiring, the story is well written and compelling, the environments are immersive.
It takes many skilled people to put together a game like that, and they all deserve credit.
But you throw a bunch of skilled people like that in a room and cook for 18 months and most of the time you'll end up with a train wreck instead of a masterpiece. Warren seems to be able to pull out the masterpiece more often than not.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: This man has produced many of the best games of all time. I can remember loading the demo version of Ultima Underworld on my PC many many years ago, and being completely blown away.
Spector is always pushing the boundaries of technology, storytelling, and interactivity.
Ultima Underworld I and II, System Shock, Thief, and Deus Ex. I still think System Shock was one of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in a game.
And Deus Ex 2... he was the studio head, but not the producer.
My three words would be:
"Frustrating End Game"
I really enjoyed the game up until the meat circus level. Then there are 2 sequences where you basically have to play perfectly for a period of about 5 minutes or start the sequence over from scratch. I'm talking about "Help the kid catch the bunny" and "Prove to your dad you are an acrobat".
It almost made me hate the game by the time I was done.
For what it's worth, I purchased it through Steam. On my 2 year old PC, the load times were acceptable... typically about 10 seconds. In the campground area you refer to you do hit a lot of load barriers though, and occasionally it gets annoying.
Yeah, but in the current situation, the prospective employee already had a job.
They have to prove it "beyond a shadow of a doubt" in a court of law.
Even in criminal court the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt". In civil court, the standard of proof is "Clear and convincing evidence".
Standards of Proof
So... not so hot on reading comprehension?
[We're so not 'enterprise' anything] But I'll say that for our small show, switching IT documentation over to a Wiki has been amazing.
* If you're looking at something, and it's wrong, you can change it without missing a beat.
* There are no worries that you're using an old version of the documentation
* It's got a search engine
* All changes are versioned
* We have all passwords information encrypted
If you make documenting something simple, people will document it. If you make it hard, people will not.
We're in complete agreement about that stuff.
I never said "there is no such think as content free as in beer".
I use and contribute to free software, download free music, and watch free videos on YouTube. It's all groovy.
My stated point: Content costs money to create. Hard to argue with that one.
Some people can afford to swallow that cost and give their creation to the world. Say an amateur singer songwriter. Again, groovy.
There are many types of content that won't ever fit that model. A Pixar animated movie for example. Too many people working full time for too long.
There are people on slashdot, (perhaps you're not one of them) that thinks that a Pixar movie should be freely distributable. Why? Because they can and because the want to. I've just never been able to understand how they can justify this to the people that actually do the work to make the movie. I've seen how hard the average animator works... 60-80 hour weeks for months on end.
Well, if these people simply wanted to ignore the music industry, then there wouldn't be an issue, would there.
But they want to take what the music industry creates, and not pay for it.
"Your fact just isn't a fact." Well, if you want to chip off the smallest slice of content you can possibly think of, and then pretend that (a) these people's time isn't worth money, (b) the equipment they use to produce, record, edit and distribute their music doesn't cost money, then you might get away with that statement.
But music is just one type of content. Are you prepared to get all your video content from You Tube? No more full length movies, just America's funniest home videos? Do you want computer games to drop in sophistication to what we had back in the 1980s? Most of today's content can't be produced by one guy in his garage in his spare time.
It's true that amateur projects are more affordable today than they used to be. But content creation at the professional level keeps getting more expensive...
A high end video game now costs $10 million dollars to produce. Why? Because the exceptions for graphics, AI, physics, etc, just keep getting higher.
HD TV shows are expected to cost more money to produce than regular TV shows because the extra definition will require better sets, costumes, more expensive equipment.
A big special effects movie can cost hundreds of million dollars to make. Special effects teams work for weeks on a single "shot" of a film that might last for 5 seconds.
In short, as the technology gets better, our expectations for the content becomes greater, but the prices don't go down.
What's stopping you from doing this right now?
If you don't like the music industry, ignore them.
You don't need to violate copyright to put your plan in action.
So, you're arguing that because it is easy to do, it should be legal/moral?
Your observation about the porn industry is odd too, since they all *charge* for their content, (the ones that don't are supported by advertising revenue from the ones that do). It's true that they don't waste a lot of time chasing copyright violators, but that's probably because they can produce their content cheaply enough that they don't need to. They can make money on $10 a month subscriptions.
People who want all their content for free ignore the fact that it takes money to create content. How do you get around this basic issue?
But reading the comments on this article make me realize just how many morons we have reading SlashDot. Actually, it would be nice if they stuck to just reading it.
Happy Thankgiving everybody!
I was just drinking my TenRen's hot green tea when I saw your post, and I thought that I should use my new Dell Dimension 9150 to point out that, not only are you right, but that it's been happening for some time now.
Yes, you're right.. it is traditional when releasing a new version of software to THROW OUT ALL YOUR CODE AND START OVER FROM SCRATCH.
I love it when people in the cake decorating industry post to slash dot.
If you don't like the default cygwin command window, and don't need an X server for other reasons, you can run rxvt. It works quite well, and doesn't require X.
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner.
I predict that Armadillo Aerospace will land on the moon before these guys put out a good game.
OJ Simpson was investigated, tried, and ultimately acquitted of being a murderer. Yet how many people still think he did it?
Isn't that different?
I mean... he did do it...