I am not sure I agree with you that OO is a tool for craftsmen. OO is a rather abstract concept for manipulation of data. Data is described as sets of symbols and computers are symbolic manipulators. So I think OO as one the more common ways modeling on computers has a pretty solid academic place in Computer Science. After all its not like I can't use an OO design methodology in a language that lakes OO features, I certainly can. That is why I say its a way of thinking rather than a tool.
Java, C++, Python, Ruby, those are the tools of craftsmen, and anyone who really understands OO in the academic sense should be able to pull the documentation for any of the tools off the shelf study it, and start using it. It might be a waste of time to teach any of those tools in an academic setting, save using some of them to demonstrate concepts.
There is a lot bitching on Slashdot that programing is not CS, and that is often true depending on what you are programing and what the objectives. People talk about algorithm research and such as being real CS, and that's certainly true. Lots of that can be done theoretically, but its not like being able to do work experimentally isn't useful. Its also untrue that there are no areas of blue sky CS research that can't be experimented with using man of the same tools craftsmen, building business apps happen to use.
I think not teaching OO to CS students is about like not teaching any chemistry to biology majors. Just because its not the whole of the subject does not mean its not needed to navigate the rest of the landscape.
This is the real source of trouble, failure to identify the bigger threat. Man in the middle attacks are a problem but they are not the more serious risk to defend against.
In order to execute a MITM attack I need to be able to manipulate your routing, dns, or both. Generally such and attack will be therefore limited to a finite number of people.
The more common attack is phishing! I can get hundreds of CC numbers etc with a successful phishing scheme. So the real value of SSL is identification. Solid identification of the remote party is more important most of the time then encryption. Which is not say the encryption is not important but I would rather put energy is stronger ID validation first
Don't make statements about my browser, you know nothing about my browser. Yes I have actually removed most the Eastern Europe, Middle East, and China.
There is no chilling effect, that is total hyperbole. To have a chilling effect there has to be possible negative consequences or reprisal for an action. Having a free twitter account where all you do is retweet shutdown is not going to give anyone the chills. You can create new one in 5min.
Now if they sued the person who set the account up or something that might have chilling effect.
Trading in illegally copied material is not protected speech, in America
We are talking about the UK here so the first amendment to the US Constitution could not be less germane but since parent posters brought it up. I would agree that trading illegally copied material is not protected speech based on my reading of it. I think it can be argued that discussing how to trade illegally copied material is likely protected and certainly advocating for it is protected speech.
I am actually not one of this OMG its all oil people that started this thread but think for a moment.
What was the population prior to 1850?
How many people could be fed per acre using agricultural technology that does not depend on nitrogen fertilizer produced with oil and natural gas? Note this is not necessarily are return to pre-1850's tech just because we have run out of oil there certainly have been many many other advances but those fertilizers are a big part.
What is the population today?
How many more arces can be reasonably put under cultivation? What are the other environmental consequences of doing that?
Supposing we could eliminate most of that 30% waste in the article, can we raise enough food to support the current population? Which without immigration would be fairly stable, but is in fact growing pretty fast because of immigration, what policy decision does this force? Do we have the political will to do it?
he fallacy in the former past is that he is equating all capitalism (economic concept) with freedom (humanist concept).
I am sorry but that is a silly distinction to make. True Capitalism requires the freedom to act in ones own self interest and the that there be no force used to compel any sacrifice to others. Its true that capitalism might be an economic concept but its one that can't really exist in the absence of freedom, thus implies freedom. What the Chinese do is not capitalism it might not be the traditional centralized command economy we associated with communism but it is certainly not capitalism. It might be true to say that modern China is not really communist under its original definition I'll have to thing on that one.
See that is the parent posters point! If it had not been for the fact that some part of the bike failed none of that chicken wire and wood would be there. The parts from the OEM were so poor that wood and chicken wire do it better.
Its a popular myth that prohibition was a failure. While its cannot be denied that it created economic conditions that helped finance organized crime which became a major social problem; prohibition had a number of effects most would characterize as positive. Also its modern myth that the repeal movement was primarily motivated by the desire to curb organized crime, the major factor was probably the need for tax revenue during the depreciation, which incidentally was the driver for the recent failed legalization efforts for cannabis in California my how things never change..
* Domestic violence and killings declined vastly during prohibition So victims of alcohol related crimes were no longer so often innocent women and children drunk men came home to but willing participants in speakeasies. Some would say that was more just.
* Alcohol related illness had become very common and also declined during prohibition In fact the level of per capita consumption did not return to what it had been until the mid sixties.
I am not advocating for prohibition I think peoples personal freedoms to put any substance(any at all) into their own body should not be infringed. I reach that conclusion being aware of the facts knowing there are consequences, others should too. We should all
I'll tell its Government, do you think any of the big organizations in the industries you site could have gotten so big without major Government help. If you want to 'fix' this situation you need to remove the barriers to entry. Thats tough with something like land lines, but but its as simple as getting rid of the FCC when it comes to wireless providers. Big oil and gas, easy let anyone operate a refinery, and drill where they like, buy the land do as you wish with it. Stop subsidizing their operations
I suspect there would be a lot more credit card vendors without an SEC as well.
Would this create lots of other problems? Yes it absolutely would, but IMHO those would be problems individuals could cope with unlike today where most of us are basically at the mercy of mega corps and a government that is primarily run on favors and blackmail. Nobody's life would be easy though and things could change a great deal from day to day.
Coal will not run out relatively soon, by some estimates there is a domestic supply that would be adequate for as much as 800 years with coal providing almost all our electrical power, even if we shift to mostly electric powered transportation.
Lets get real here about this whole starving people issue.
If we are talking about starving people in this country they should migrate. If you are someplace were you can't provide for yourself in the states you should leave that place, even if you have to walk. Its entirely possible to do that here. I am not saying its at all easy for some, but I really do think if you starve to death in the USA its partially because you allowed it to happen. There are enough programs, shelters, odd jobs, etc around that its possible for anyone to live at least very poorly.
If we are talking about other places, we have to realize the powerful people their want it that way. When know when the price of bread gets to high you get revolts and revolutions, but there is a certain zone before that were the population spends most of its time trying to feed itself and not planning up risings. That is how folks like Gaddafi want to run or rather ruin their nations. Quite honestly it looks like the rebels are going to fail at this point without some outside help in the form of no-fly zone, and perhaps even some ground support. History has shown we can't give food away and get the results we want. It takes military intervention with also FREQUENTLY does not get the results we want. In that sense its not about passing out inexpensive often surplus grain but rather treasury busting military exercises, not to mention the cost to our families. Its not that I don't want to help the less fortunate but the truth is the price is often higher than even we here in America can really afford.
I read these types of stories more along the lines of, "Did you know how much you use GPS?",
This is a useful question with lots of technologies as they become ubiquitous. Its a good gut check for some people who don't think about things like what happens if GPS won't work for some reason? Its stupid to not use a tool, after all if you are not going to use it why have the tool at all. Still if you drive places you are not familiar with and use the GPS to get you there that is great but it might be a good idea keep a road atlas under the seat just in case, the sat nav stops working for any reason.
Go back and check your history. Edison LOST that argument with Tesla. Tesla wanted AC because it was better for running motors and was more efficient for long distance transmission. Edision wanted DC because its arguably safer.
The software issue might not be as big this time a round. Netbooks aside, ARM is driving today's tablets, cellphones, and embedded devices. That seems to be where computing is going in general. It simply won't make sense to bring most of the existing PC software into that world. The software that does make sense to go there is cross platform already. Hell I am running ArmedSlack on my GuruPlug and its package for package almost exactly the same as the x86 Slackware versions.
So people are really not going to be looking to move as many legacy apps over in the first place, frew applications people are really using will prove to be prohibitively difficult to port. Its not 1985 any more and we are not worried about running our DOS apps much, few applications written in the past 10 to 15 years have blobs of assembly sprinkled in and probably fewer make assumptions about PC hardware.
I am not really sure what your point about itanium is exactly. We were discussing for the most part technical realities if RISC, CISC, and micro code. Itanium is first off still in production, in fact they just released new models, and second if its a failure it is so in the marking sense more so than the technical sense. The chip performs well.
At least where hightech is concerned this so called standards organizations have devolved into little more of substance than East Texan Patent trolls, they just hide behind their names and history for the sake of keeping a better face on it.
All MPEG-LA is really about is deciding who gets to play and who has to pay based on if you are lucky enough to be 1, a Mega Multinational, 2 part of their chosen boys club, and 3 friendly to their business interests. These organizations are not about facilitation of standards and interoperation but instread about collusion. They decide whats in the market place and how its offered, At least until another elephant like Goolge gets upset enough about it. It has to be someone like Google to even if it is "the people vs" becuase no AT-Gen would pay attention if some small opensource project came calling.
Right it gets back to that expectation of privavy argument. I think I certainly do have a right to expect the contents of my pants are private when walking down the street.
Oh well I guess until the public decides, "to uphold the Constitution" should actually mean than in thoes office oaths, I guess I will get some foil lined clothing.
Shame on you for even saying it even in jest, because some people will no doubt think it. The attitude that just because something is secret or private it must be a tool of crime is just wrong. There should exist a right to privacy, being able to make purchases in anonymity at least of things we have not specifically classified as controlled is a pretty basic part of that.
Y2k was different in that it was very possible the software simply did not understand years >1999. In this case even if you can't get your code fixed/tzData updated or whatever worst case you have an admin on hand to advance the clock an extra hour and restart services.
Yes it might be an interuption and might even mean a little down time but I really can't think of more then a few situations where manually advancing the clock won't fix the problem.
Slashdot Mirror
I am not sure I agree with you that OO is a tool for craftsmen. OO is a rather abstract concept for manipulation of data. Data is described as sets of symbols and computers are symbolic manipulators. So I think OO as one the more common ways modeling on computers has a pretty solid academic place in Computer Science. After all its not like I can't use an OO design methodology in a language that lakes OO features, I certainly can. That is why I say its a way of thinking rather than a tool.
Java, C++, Python, Ruby, those are the tools of craftsmen, and anyone who really understands OO in the academic sense should be able to pull the documentation for any of the tools off the shelf study it, and start using it. It might be a waste of time to teach any of those tools in an academic setting, save using some of them to demonstrate concepts.
There is a lot bitching on Slashdot that programing is not CS, and that is often true depending on what you are programing and what the objectives. People talk about algorithm research and such as being real CS, and that's certainly true. Lots of that can be done theoretically, but its not like being able to do work experimentally isn't useful. Its also untrue that there are no areas of blue sky CS research that can't be experimented with using man of the same tools craftsmen, building business apps happen to use.
I think not teaching OO to CS students is about like not teaching any chemistry to biology majors. Just because its not the whole of the subject does not mean its not needed to navigate the rest of the landscape.
This is the real source of trouble, failure to identify the bigger threat. Man in the middle attacks are a problem but they are not the more serious risk to defend against.
In order to execute a MITM attack I need to be able to manipulate your routing, dns, or both. Generally such and attack will be therefore limited to a finite number of people.
The more common attack is phishing! I can get hundreds of CC numbers etc with a successful phishing scheme. So the real value of SSL is identification. Solid identification of the remote party is more important most of the time then encryption. Which is not say the encryption is not important but I would rather put energy is stronger ID validation first
Don't make statements about my browser, you know nothing about my browser. Yes I have actually removed most the Eastern Europe, Middle East, and China.
There is no chilling effect, that is total hyperbole. To have a chilling effect there has to be possible negative consequences or reprisal for an action. Having a free twitter account where all you do is retweet shutdown is not going to give anyone the chills. You can create new one in 5min.
Now if they sued the person who set the account up or something that might have chilling effect.
Trading in illegally copied material is not protected speech, in America
We are talking about the UK here so the first amendment to the US Constitution could not be less germane but since parent posters brought it up. I would agree that trading illegally copied material is not protected speech based on my reading of it. I think it can be argued that discussing how to trade illegally copied material is likely protected and certainly advocating for it is protected speech.
I am actually not one of this OMG its all oil people that started this thread but think for a moment.
What was the population prior to 1850?
How many people could be fed per acre using agricultural technology that does not depend on nitrogen fertilizer produced with oil and natural gas? Note this is not necessarily are return to pre-1850's tech just because we have run out of oil there certainly have been many many other advances but those fertilizers are a big part.
What is the population today?
How many more arces can be reasonably put under cultivation? What are the other environmental consequences of doing that?
Supposing we could eliminate most of that 30% waste in the article, can we raise enough food to support the current population? Which without immigration would be fairly stable, but is in fact growing pretty fast because of immigration, what policy decision does this force? Do we have the political will to do it?
Just some things to think about...
he fallacy in the former past is that he is equating all capitalism (economic concept) with freedom (humanist concept).
I am sorry but that is a silly distinction to make. True Capitalism requires the freedom to act in ones own self interest and the that there be no force used to compel any sacrifice to others. Its true that capitalism might be an economic concept but its one that can't really exist in the absence of freedom, thus implies freedom. What the Chinese do is not capitalism it might not be the traditional centralized command economy we associated with communism but it is certainly not capitalism. It might be true to say that modern China is not really communist under its original definition I'll have to thing on that one.
Right these guys know they could never pass directive 10-289 so this is the next best thing.
See that is the parent posters point! If it had not been for the fact that some part of the bike failed none of that chicken wire and wood would be there. The parts from the OEM were so poor that wood and chicken wire do it better.
You mean like we are doing in Jordan?
Its a popular myth that prohibition was a failure. While its cannot be denied that it created economic conditions that helped finance organized crime which became a major social problem; prohibition had a number of effects most would characterize as positive. Also its modern myth that the repeal movement was primarily motivated by the desire to curb organized crime, the major factor was probably the need for tax revenue during the depreciation, which incidentally was the driver for the recent failed legalization efforts for cannabis in California my how things never change..
* Domestic violence and killings declined vastly during prohibition
So victims of alcohol related crimes were no longer so often innocent women and children drunk men came home to but willing participants in speakeasies. Some would say that was more just.
* Alcohol related illness had become very common and also declined during prohibition
In fact the level of per capita consumption did not return to what it had been until the mid sixties.
I am not advocating for prohibition I think peoples personal freedoms to put any substance(any at all) into their own body should not be infringed. I reach that conclusion being aware of the facts knowing there are consequences, others should too. We should all
And do you know why that happens?
I'll tell its Government, do you think any of the big organizations in the industries you site could have gotten so big without major Government help. If you want to 'fix' this situation you need to remove the barriers to entry. Thats tough with something like land lines, but but its as simple as getting rid of the FCC when it comes to wireless providers. Big oil and gas, easy let anyone operate a refinery, and drill where they like, buy the land do as you wish with it. Stop subsidizing their operations
I suspect there would be a lot more credit card vendors without an SEC as well.
Would this create lots of other problems? Yes it absolutely would, but IMHO those would be problems individuals could cope with unlike today where most of us are basically at the mercy of mega corps and a government that is primarily run on favors and blackmail. Nobody's life would be easy though and things could change a great deal from day to day.
Coal will not run out relatively soon, by some estimates there is a domestic supply that would be adequate for as much as 800 years with coal providing almost all our electrical power, even if we shift to mostly electric powered transportation.
Lets get real here about this whole starving people issue.
If we are talking about starving people in this country they should migrate. If you are someplace were you can't provide for yourself in the states you should leave that place, even if you have to walk. Its entirely possible to do that here. I am not saying its at all easy for some, but I really do think if you starve to death in the USA its partially because you allowed it to happen. There are enough programs, shelters, odd jobs, etc around that its possible for anyone to live at least very poorly.
If we are talking about other places, we have to realize the powerful people their want it that way. When know when the price of bread gets to high you get revolts and revolutions, but there is a certain zone before that were the population spends most of its time trying to feed itself and not planning up risings. That is how folks like Gaddafi want to run or rather ruin their nations. Quite honestly it looks like the rebels are going to fail at this point without some outside help in the form of no-fly zone, and perhaps even some ground support. History has shown we can't give food away and get the results we want. It takes military intervention with also FREQUENTLY does not get the results we want. In that sense its not about passing out inexpensive often surplus grain but rather treasury busting military exercises, not to mention the cost to our families. Its not that I don't want to help the less fortunate but the truth is the price is often higher than even we here in America can really afford.
I read these types of stories more along the lines of, "Did you know how much you use GPS?",
This is a useful question with lots of technologies as they become ubiquitous. Its a good gut check for some people who don't think about things like what happens if GPS won't work for some reason? Its stupid to not use a tool, after all if you are not going to use it why have the tool at all. Still if you drive places you are not familiar with and use the GPS to get you there that is great but it might be a good idea keep a road atlas under the seat just in case, the sat nav stops working for any reason.
I am pleased they are going to actually educate children using correct language. Words HAVE MEANINGS or at least they should.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2064125_become-internet-troll.html
The above URI has some helpful hints for noobs who might want to get into trolling
Wow, umm no.\\
Go back and check your history. Edison LOST that argument with Tesla. Tesla wanted AC because it was better for running motors and was more efficient for long distance transmission. Edision wanted DC because its arguably safer.
The software issue might not be as big this time a round. Netbooks aside, ARM is driving today's tablets, cellphones, and embedded devices. That seems to be where computing is going in general. It simply won't make sense to bring most of the existing PC software into that world. The software that does make sense to go there is cross platform already. Hell I am running ArmedSlack on my GuruPlug and its package for package almost exactly the same as the x86 Slackware versions.
So people are really not going to be looking to move as many legacy apps over in the first place, frew applications people are really using will prove to be prohibitively difficult to port. Its not 1985 any more and we are not worried about running our DOS apps much, few applications written in the past 10 to 15 years have blobs of assembly sprinkled in and probably fewer make assumptions about PC hardware.
I am not really sure what your point about itanium is exactly. We were discussing for the most part technical realities if RISC, CISC, and micro code. Itanium is first off still in production, in fact they just released new models, and second if its a failure it is so in the marking sense more so than the technical sense. The chip performs well.
Probably not but you should be.
At least where hightech is concerned this so called standards organizations have devolved into little more of substance than East Texan Patent trolls, they just hide behind their names and history for the sake of keeping a better face on it.
All MPEG-LA is really about is deciding who gets to play and who has to pay based on if you are lucky enough to be 1, a Mega Multinational, 2 part of their chosen boys club, and 3 friendly to their business interests. These organizations are not about facilitation of standards and interoperation but instread about collusion. They decide whats in the market place and how its offered, At least until another elephant like Goolge gets upset enough about it. It has to be someone like Google to even if it is "the people vs" becuase no AT-Gen would pay attention if some small opensource project came calling.
Right it gets back to that expectation of privavy argument. I think I certainly do have a right to expect the contents of my pants are private when walking down the street.
Oh well I guess until the public decides, "to uphold the Constitution" should actually mean than in thoes office oaths, I guess I will get some foil lined clothing.
Shame on you for even saying it even in jest, because some people will no doubt think it. The attitude that just because something is secret or private it must be a tool of crime is just wrong. There should exist a right to privacy, being able to make purchases in anonymity at least of things we have not specifically classified as controlled is a pretty basic part of that.
Yea it must be hard to recurit qualified employees for them. Few people are capable of the congnative disonence required to produce their propoganda.
Y2k was different in that it was very possible the software simply did not understand years >1999. In this case even if you can't get your code fixed/tzData updated or whatever worst case you have an admin on hand to advance the clock an extra hour and restart services.
Yes it might be an interuption and might even mean a little down time but I really can't think of more then a few situations where manually advancing the clock won't fix the problem.