"Communism is a top down approach to control where a central authority dictates what everyone does."
I was under the impression that communisim was a democracy where everyone wants the same thing, the notion of leaders becomes redundant, control of the status-quo gets handed to a sociopathic admin. This notion was also based on the idea that democracy is a system where everyone has an equal but differing voice.
Turns out that extreme governments at both ends of the political spectrum look like totalitarianism and democracy is a reality show where big bussiness takes the place of big brother.
We need a king of the world, he should be called Bob, Marley is dead so Geldof will have to do.
"it is a good idea to know all the facts BEFORE making a judgement"
You have gone to a lot of trouble with your reply but you are still missing the point of my original post, when you make a judgement about why someone has given a gift it is known as "Looking a gift horse in the mouth". Sure we all know about Trojan horses as well. No matter what type of horse it is, it is considered bad manners to instinctively shout Trojan simply because you dislike the giver. In other words considering what we all know about Bill and his giving habits, it is definitely troll like to immediately start questioning his motives for giving to a worthy cause such as Malria.
Some observations about the averages discussions:
1. The Eisenhower story works because most people know the distribution of IQ's in the general population is a fairly good match for an idealised Normal(bell) curve. By defining the IQ distribution as a normal distribution we can conclude that average IQ splits the population into two symetrical halves.
2. An average is not a "range", it is by definition a single number ie: the sum of all data points divided by the count of all data points. My example was designed to show that there are many types of distributions, another example would be average wages, ie: 80% of full time workers earn less than the national average wage. This wage thing is what is called a skewed data set and the real world is full of them.
3. My example discusses two averages, one for the general population and one for a hypotheticaly skewed sub-group, you obviously misunderstood the example.
"cute way to say you think I'm a jerk".
You want me to call you a jerk then fine, so lay down on my couch while I tell you why...
1. You claim to be an ex-maths teacher but have no expertise.
2. You view everything in black and white, in my mind that either makes you an old fool or a teenager pretending to be a man.
3. You promote yourself as having a deep understanding of people and events, yet reading your posts you have insinuated just about everyone is stupid except for you.
3. I think when you talk about Bill you are really talking about yourself. You are constantly trying to give off this air of intelligence and wisdom and are failing miserably.
4. I am not so sure you are stupid, I suspect your problem is that you are too busy looking after your insecurities to be able to fully comprehend your environment.
"If Gates were such a good person" "...to call someone a saint..."
I have not indicated if I think Bill is good or evil. I do however give him the credit he deserves for his gift.
"I'm old enough to remember what they were like at the start" "I mentioned before, I run my own business." "I've watched Bill G for his whole career."
I was born in '59, have run my own bussiness, was playing with computers before the XT was built, taught lab classes at uni for a few years, spent some time as a "lumberjack", deckhand on a fishing trawaler, taxi driver,,,so what? It is fairly obvious from your posts that your understanding of human behaviour is based on the simplistic "saints and sinners" world view with a heavy dose of "leopards don't change their spots" thrown in. As a fellow old fart, I find it singularly unimpressive that you have spent all your adult life watching others build/lose their fortunes and "good vs evil" is the wisdom you choose to pass on to slashdot.
"where most members seem to think they have an above average intelligence"
Nine people with an IQ = 120, one person with IQ = 90, most members have an above average IQ, both within the group and within the general population. I hope you don't teach statistics to those stupid employees/students of yours.
"My focus is on stupidity -- at least here." - You should give up your day job and write PHB material for Scott Adams.
The thing looks credible and as you say the market will decide if it is cost effective. However I can't see this as a "breakthrough" (let alone 45 patents!), rather it looks like a neat package of existing technologies (perhaps it needs an LED clock before the US companies jump in?).
I have been up close to a large oil rig in a 20m trawler, I was expecting it to be big but I was still awestruck by it's sheer size. I don't think this thing will be teaching platform designers anything new.
So what you are saying is Bill should go and buy all the DDT he can and what, destroy the food chain? Breed DDT resistant mossies? Are you suggesting he use the money to implement this evil plot because it is more fitting of his nature as the great satan? Do you think we should use the money to put lasers on trout so they can shoot down prey from a distance?
First up Malaria is a "Tropical" disease, ie: found in the tropics, Australia has the strictest quarantine of any Nation, NZ and the Antartic are too cold.
Second, Malaria is an "orphan" disease, ie: Drug companies do not see a future profit so they put little effort into research.
Third, "evil" people sometimes do great deeds. As for "pushing & conjoling" have you ever noticed that is how most "leaders" operate?
Fourth, this is exactly the kind of philanthropy that US capitialism has always touted but has rarely experienced.
Last, Bill & Co have an impressive record of helping people who are largely forgotten by the rest of the world. No he did not start MS in an attempt to wipe out Malaria, but because of MS success as a publicly traded company, Bill now has the oportunity to do so.
Projection: The fact that you can only see a self serving conspiracy on the part of MS says alot more about you than it does about Bill.
If you are from Oz, DO NOT put your phone number on raffle tickets, particularly the arthritis and diabeties ones (sad that I have to say that, but both are very pushy once they know who you are).
Also it is only for certain hours, they can still call you during the 5:30 - 7:30 time slot when most people are home for dinner. Having once worked a 5yr stint on night shift I know unsolicited calls and door knockers are a pain in the arse. I had a routine that went like this...
Knock, KnoWooof, wooof,wooofock,wooKffGRRRRRRbark,yapyap,,,,KnHoooo wwwl..SIT!
I stomp to front door in my jocks and fling it open looking like the angry love child of Einstien and a 220lb Gorrila...
Me: "What?"
Door knocker: "Oh,umm,err, sorry...did I wake you?"
Me (calmer voice): "No, I was getting up anyway..." - wait for them to relax just a touch-
"...TO KILL THE FUCKING DOG!". Slam.
They are getting worse, sometimes I pick up the phone and the trained baboon on the other end has put me on hold!!!
Here's the catch, the companies actually manage to stay in bussiness,ie: it works?!? There can only be one reason for that, there are some people who buy into the bullshit and therfore encourage it. If you know one of these people and want to help them gain some self-respect, telling cold callers to fuck off is a fun and rewarding therapy.
Offtopic: As another slashdotter from OZ I also remember the "pick me" calls from Johnny, but how corrupt is the current "marketing" of the proposed IR changes. I encourage the government to adverstise the law, but the IR changes are still only Johnny's proposal and his party should pay for the propoganda,,,err,,,advertising. OTOH, when it comes to the proposed terror laws they are threatening 30yrs jail for anyone who leaks a draft copy.
Apart from the obvious point about spending taxpayer's money to advertise a party political position on a proposed law, the more subtle point is this: If taxpayer's money is spent so that the public can be "educated" about the draft IR changes, why is the government spending taxpayer's money to keep the public "un-educated" about the draft terror laws.
"They have not developed deep mathematical understanding of the forces control evolution."
Perhaps biologists did not develop it but the branch of maths you are looking for is called statistics. I don't belive that sophisticated maths is a requirement of every theory but it certainly backs most of them up, including evolution.
"Fishes eventually became amphibians, right? How many fossils support this conclusion? Tens of thousands? Thousands? Hundreds? None of the above. A single questionable fossil is the only link between fish and amphibians."
Lungfish are a living example. Evolution is not a straight line and does not rest soley on the fossil record, that is why it is called an evolutionary tree, the vast majority of the branches are dead. Every single point you attempted to make has been adressed in the lirature, you may be able to see the "E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E" if you actually read it. Also it would be a good idea if you looked up the definition of "species".
Yes, the "agressor" is trying to pass itself off as a "victim". If the ID people get their way, (personally I think it's a political distraction), it could backfire. I wouldn't be the first to suggest a mandated darwin sticker on the bible as an "equal time" measure.
"Prediction CAN be a useful aspect of science (say, for engineering purposes), but it is not a necessary one."
It's sad that there are so many people posting to a geek site who do not understand the scientific method, the whole thing dissapears down a rabbit hole if you dont make and test predictions. The obvious answer to your senario is exactly the method by wich science moves forward. Science does not find absolute answers and never will (unless the ID types manage to get their own way). Science simply holds up the simplist and most complete explanations known to man, truth, as any scientist will tell you, belongs to the Gods:).
Scientists as a whole are not opposed to the teaching of ID but they are opposed to teaching it as science, as the GP post stated, "ID is 100% non-verifiable and is useless for precition". It is the same reasoning that ensures atheism is not taught as science.
To sum up, you can call ID anything you like, religion, philosophy, fiction, god of the gaps, debate by loophole.... Scientists are understandably pissed off because calling it science involves either...
a. Fibbing.
b. A redefinition of science that puts a religious trump card (sticker) back into the scientific method.
The dark age of Europe: A triumph of religion over reason.
"...the rampant confusion and misleading of students with regard to what's evolution, what's not, what is theory, and what is fact."
A theory is a one or more hypothisies supported by fact, organisims evolve by natural selection. I think you are just upset about a theory that treats you like an animal.
Well said, a govt. census is supposed to be about collecting mundane statistics for use in the public domain (eg: how big a shit pipe will we need in 10 years time for suburb X if current trends continue). It has nothing to do with "spectacular revelations".
Yes I realize that "escaping" is based on acceleration and that the velocity of an object is always relative to another object or "point in space" (whatever that means). I was deliberately aiming for a simple explanation (perhaps too simple).
One thing that I did not think of was that previous missions to Mars have taken ~6 months. This gives an average speed over (say) 50 million miles as ~Mach4.
"Not so fast", I hear you say, "things are misleading when everything is moving about in curves, you can't assume a fixed distance between reference points".
Those complexities were in mind when I threw in the comment about elegance and precision. I can only assume NASA uses the Sun or the target as a refernece point when they have given out velocity figures in the past.
The last time I studied calculus there was still no answer to the three body problem (nice animation link at the bottom). I have a BSc but I do not claim to be a maths genius or even a garden variety rocket scientist. I do however understand enough to marvel at the beauty of their geometrical creations.
If I'm not mistaken I belive your reply has shown the parent posts conjecture to be correct.
I have to admit I was suprised to see BMJ links so I followed the first one, it's conclusion states.... "It is uncertain whether this response is due to specific or non-specific (placebo) effects".
I then clicked on a random citation and it had this to say about the paper...
"The problem with this report and all others that employ a group receiving placebo is that it is easy to tell whether a strong magnet is being used and therefore difficult to compensate for a self-fulfilling prophecy."
In other words the paper itself admits the research is inconclusive and other papers are using it as a bad example.
Just for a bit of fun I read a few of the BMJ readers "rapid responses" at the bottom of the page, most were disappointed that the paper had been published.
Slashdot Mirror
"Communism is a top down approach to control where a central authority dictates what everyone does."
/sarcasim
I was under the impression that communisim was a democracy where everyone wants the same thing, the notion of leaders becomes redundant, control of the status-quo gets handed to a sociopathic admin. This notion was also based on the idea that democracy is a system where everyone has an equal but differing voice.
Turns out that extreme governments at both ends of the political spectrum look like totalitarianism and democracy is a reality show where big bussiness takes the place of big brother.
We need a king of the world, he should be called Bob, Marley is dead so Geldof will have to do.
"it is a good idea to know all the facts BEFORE making a judgement"
You have gone to a lot of trouble with your reply but you are still missing the point of my original post, when you make a judgement about why someone has given a gift it is known as "Looking a gift horse in the mouth". Sure we all know about Trojan horses as well. No matter what type of horse it is, it is considered bad manners to instinctively shout Trojan simply because you dislike the giver. In other words considering what we all know about Bill and his giving habits, it is definitely troll like to immediately start questioning his motives for giving to a worthy cause such as Malria.
Some observations about the averages discussions:
1. The Eisenhower story works because most people know the distribution of IQ's in the general population is a fairly good match for an idealised Normal(bell) curve. By defining the IQ distribution as a normal distribution we can conclude that average IQ splits the population into two symetrical halves.
2. An average is not a "range", it is by definition a single number ie: the sum of all data points divided by the count of all data points. My example was designed to show that there are many types of distributions, another example would be average wages, ie: 80% of full time workers earn less than the national average wage. This wage thing is what is called a skewed data set and the real world is full of them.
3. My example discusses two averages, one for the general population and one for a hypotheticaly skewed sub-group, you obviously misunderstood the example.
"cute way to say you think I'm a jerk".
You want me to call you a jerk then fine, so lay down on my couch while I tell you why...
1. You claim to be an ex-maths teacher but have no expertise.
2. You view everything in black and white, in my mind that either makes you an old fool or a teenager pretending to be a man.
3. You promote yourself as having a deep understanding of people and events, yet reading your posts you have insinuated just about everyone is stupid except for you.
3. I think when you talk about Bill you are really talking about yourself. You are constantly trying to give off this air of intelligence and wisdom and are failing miserably.
4. I am not so sure you are stupid, I suspect your problem is that you are too busy looking after your insecurities to be able to fully comprehend your environment.
"its not 45 patents, its 2 patents that include 45 claims"
Yeah, my bad.
"If Gates were such a good person"
"...to call someone a saint..."
I have not indicated if I think Bill is good or evil. I do however give him the credit he deserves for his gift.
"I'm old enough to remember what they were like at the start"
"I mentioned before, I run my own business."
"I've watched Bill G for his whole career."
I was born in '59, have run my own bussiness, was playing with computers before the XT was built, taught lab classes at uni for a few years, spent some time as a "lumberjack", deckhand on a fishing trawaler, taxi driver,,,so what? It is fairly obvious from your posts that your understanding of human behaviour is based on the simplistic "saints and sinners" world view with a heavy dose of "leopards don't change their spots" thrown in. As a fellow old fart, I find it singularly unimpressive that you have spent all your adult life watching others build/lose their fortunes and "good vs evil" is the wisdom you choose to pass on to slashdot.
"where most members seem to think they have an above average intelligence"
Nine people with an IQ = 120, one person with IQ = 90, most members have an above average IQ, both within the group and within the general population. I hope you don't teach statistics to those stupid employees/students of yours.
"My focus is on stupidity -- at least here." - You should give up your day job and write PHB material for Scott Adams.
It's going nowhere.
The thing looks credible and as you say the market will decide if it is cost effective. However I can't see this as a "breakthrough" (let alone 45 patents!), rather it looks like a neat package of existing technologies (perhaps it needs an LED clock before the US companies jump in?).
I have been up close to a large oil rig in a 20m trawler, I was expecting it to be big but I was still awestruck by it's sheer size. I don't think this thing will be teaching platform designers anything new.
"But sometimes land features can cause wind to bottleneck and concentrate in a certain area."
Tidal rips are formed in a similar manner.
So what you are saying is Bill should go and buy all the DDT he can and what, destroy the food chain? Breed DDT resistant mossies? Are you suggesting he use the money to implement this evil plot because it is more fitting of his nature as the great satan? Do you think we should use the money to put lasers on trout so they can shoot down prey from a distance?
"There is a cheap cure for the malaria problem, it's called DDT."
Yes, you can also cure a headache with cranial amputation, try it next time you feel one coming on.
First up Malaria is a "Tropical" disease, ie: found in the tropics, Australia has the strictest quarantine of any Nation, NZ and the Antartic are too cold.
Second, Malaria is an "orphan" disease, ie: Drug companies do not see a future profit so they put little effort into research.
Third, "evil" people sometimes do great deeds. As for "pushing & conjoling" have you ever noticed that is how most "leaders" operate?
Fourth, this is exactly the kind of philanthropy that US capitialism has always touted but has rarely experienced.
Last, Bill & Co have an impressive record of helping people who are largely forgotten by the rest of the world. No he did not start MS in an attempt to wipe out Malaria, but because of MS success as a publicly traded company, Bill now has the oportunity to do so.
Projection: The fact that you can only see a self serving conspiracy on the part of MS says alot more about you than it does about Bill.
If you are from Oz, DO NOT put your phone number on raffle tickets, particularly the arthritis and diabeties ones (sad that I have to say that, but both are very pushy once they know who you are).
Also it is only for certain hours, they can still call you during the 5:30 - 7:30 time slot when most people are home for dinner. Having once worked a 5yr stint on night shift I know unsolicited calls and door knockers are a pain in the arse. I had a routine that went like this...
o wwwl..SIT!
Knock, KnoWooof, wooof,wooofock,wooKffGRRRRRRbark,yapyap,,,,KnHooo
I stomp to front door in my jocks and fling it open looking like the angry love child of Einstien and a 220lb Gorrila...
Me: "What?"
Door knocker: "Oh,umm,err, sorry...did I wake you?"
Me (calmer voice): "No, I was getting up anyway..." - wait for them to relax just a touch- "...TO KILL THE FUCKING DOG!". Slam.
They are getting worse, sometimes I pick up the phone and the trained baboon on the other end has put me on hold!!!
Here's the catch, the companies actually manage to stay in bussiness,ie: it works?!? There can only be one reason for that, there are some people who buy into the bullshit and therfore encourage it. If you know one of these people and want to help them gain some self-respect, telling cold callers to fuck off is a fun and rewarding therapy.
Offtopic: As another slashdotter from OZ I also remember the "pick me" calls from Johnny, but how corrupt is the current "marketing" of the proposed IR changes. I encourage the government to adverstise the law, but the IR changes are still only Johnny's proposal and his party should pay for the propoganda,,,err,,,advertising. OTOH, when it comes to the proposed terror laws they are threatening 30yrs jail for anyone who leaks a draft copy.
Apart from the obvious point about spending taxpayer's money to advertise a party political position on a proposed law, the more subtle point is this: If taxpayer's money is spent so that the public can be "educated" about the draft IR changes, why is the government spending taxpayer's money to keep the public "un-educated" about the draft terror laws.
Three strikes, your out!
"They have not developed deep mathematical understanding of the forces control evolution."
Perhaps biologists did not develop it but the branch of maths you are looking for is called statistics. I don't belive that sophisticated maths is a requirement of every theory but it certainly backs most of them up, including evolution.
"Fishes eventually became amphibians, right? How many fossils support this conclusion? Tens of thousands? Thousands? Hundreds? None of the above. A single questionable fossil is the only link between fish and amphibians."
Lungfish are a living example. Evolution is not a straight line and does not rest soley on the fossil record, that is why it is called an evolutionary tree, the vast majority of the branches are dead. Every single point you attempted to make has been adressed in the lirature, you may be able to see the "E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E" if you actually read it. Also it would be a good idea if you looked up the definition of "species".
Yes, the "agressor" is trying to pass itself off as a "victim". If the ID people get their way, (personally I think it's a political distraction), it could backfire. I wouldn't be the first to suggest a mandated darwin sticker on the bible as an "equal time" measure.
Darwin to Dawkins is a fine example of the how a scientific theory evolves.
"Prediction CAN be a useful aspect of science (say, for engineering purposes), but it is not a necessary one."
:).
It's sad that there are so many people posting to a geek site who do not understand the scientific method, the whole thing dissapears down a rabbit hole if you dont make and test predictions. The obvious answer to your senario is exactly the method by wich science moves forward. Science does not find absolute answers and never will (unless the ID types manage to get their own way). Science simply holds up the simplist and most complete explanations known to man, truth, as any scientist will tell you, belongs to the Gods
Scientists as a whole are not opposed to the teaching of ID but they are opposed to teaching it as science, as the GP post stated, "ID is 100% non-verifiable and is useless for precition". It is the same reasoning that ensures atheism is not taught as science.
To sum up, you can call ID anything you like, religion, philosophy, fiction, god of the gaps, debate by loophole.... Scientists are understandably pissed off because calling it science involves either...
a. Fibbing.
b. A redefinition of science that puts a religious trump card (sticker) back into the scientific method.
The dark age of Europe: A triumph of religion over reason.
"...the rampant confusion and misleading of students with regard to what's evolution, what's not, what is theory, and what is fact."
A theory is a one or more hypothisies supported by fact, organisims evolve by natural selection. I think you are just upset about a theory that treats you like an animal.
"Evolutionary Biology seems to be an end, rather than a means, on the path of discovery."
Ok fellas, stop working on bird flu, you reached the end before you started.
"It will be a great day when I can make a comment on slashdot without one person dissecting information in it."
It would also be quite an occasion to see someone admit they didn't think something through before posting.
Well said, a govt. census is supposed to be about collecting mundane statistics for use in the public domain (eg: how big a shit pipe will we need in 10 years time for suburb X if current trends continue). It has nothing to do with "spectacular revelations".
I thought your link was going to lead me to the "April fool" debacle, but that was even funnier.
Yes I realize that "escaping" is based on acceleration and that the velocity of an object is always relative to another object or "point in space" (whatever that means). I was deliberately aiming for a simple explanation (perhaps too simple).
One thing that I did not think of was that previous missions to Mars have taken ~6 months. This gives an average speed over (say) 50 million miles as ~Mach4.
"Not so fast", I hear you say, "things are misleading when everything is moving about in curves, you can't assume a fixed distance between reference points".
Those complexities were in mind when I threw in the comment about elegance and precision. I can only assume NASA uses the Sun or the target as a refernece point when they have given out velocity figures in the past.
The last time I studied calculus there was still no answer to the three body problem (nice animation link at the bottom). I have a BSc but I do not claim to be a maths genius or even a garden variety rocket scientist. I do however understand enough to marvel at the beauty of their geometrical creations.
If I'm not mistaken I belive your reply has shown the parent posts conjecture to be correct.
I have to admit I was suprised to see BMJ links so I followed the first one, it's conclusion states.... "It is uncertain whether this response is due to specific or non-specific (placebo) effects".
I then clicked on a random citation and it had this to say about the paper...
"The problem with this report and all others that employ a group receiving placebo is that it is easy to tell whether a strong magnet is being used and therefore difficult to compensate for a self-fulfilling prophecy."
In other words the paper itself admits the research is inconclusive and other papers are using it as a bad example.
Just for a bit of fun I read a few of the BMJ readers "rapid responses" at the bottom of the page, most were disappointed that the paper had been published.