Australian Do Not Call Register

green-e writes "Looks like us Aussies are finally introducing a national 'Do Not Call' register. Under the plan all telemarketers would be banned from calling homes after 8pm on weekdays and 5pm on weekends. Companies that call a household on the register could face fines of up to $220,000 (AU), which could be legislated early next year. About time something like this should be set up. How effective has it been in the US ?"

Comments

As an Australian I can honestly say

[AbRASiON]

It's about time.

This is awesome and I hope it's enforced thoroughly.
Sure it's going to cost some people some jobs - but lately the calls have been coming from other countries anyhow.

Marketing is invasive enough as it is, my number at home is not to be called for any old reason - this is just plain RUDE, 30 years ago you wouldn't dream of this crap happening.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[fabs64]

heh, with any luck the money for those jobs will move local to viral marketing ;-)
Actually, I seriously think I'd prefer viral marketing, irks me much less than people asking if I want to change my electricity provider in the middle of the grand final.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[ankarbass]

I'm not on the american register. But, I've noticed several things.

1) There ARE fewer calls. Fewer companies seem to be willing to risk the fines or pay for the lists.

2) Companies seem to love to play the "We have a relationship" card much more than they used to. They go out of their way to make sure I know that.

3) Those that call are much more aggressive. They are using automatic systems to make calls more and more. I seldom get a person directly on the other end. Even though I only get a few calls a month, it is for this and other reasons that I'm ditching my landline and going to voip only.

With voip it is both easy to have multiple phone numbers that can be changed quickly. Further it's much easier to filter by caller id and completely control how each call is handled. f you don't know the secret personal number which I can change at the drop of a hat, you won't get to talk directly to me ever. I have separate permanent numbers for places I do business with so that they will ALWAYS have to leave a message. Those numbers can take ALL the junk calls they want to dish out because they will NEVER ring a phone in my house. Only my personal voip numbers ring a phone and only if your number hasn't been blacklisted.

Voip is to phones what email is to postal mail. Your physical address no longer has any meaning and it's easy to set it up so that you control what is coming and going based on how available you want to be.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[dotwaffle]

Maybe it's just me - but I'm really scared by VoIP. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, and Asterisk is an amazing tool, but if I can set it up, so can Mr. 419-Nigeria-Scam, so can Mr. Viagra-automated-selling-tool. I can see a time when my phone is going to ring every 30 seconds, and it's going to be a marketer from a foreign country who does not recognise the UK's Telephone Preference Scheme.

I can see trouble ahead.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also a lot worse in Australia than here. I visited friends in Australia in Feb 2004, and spent time staying at three separate houses the weeks I was there. It wasn't unusual to get 10 to 15 calls every night, weekend included.

At least my hosts had the sense not to spend much time on these people, happily shouting a big FUCK OFF down the phone before hanging up and getting back to life.

Australians are a lot more dependent on land lines too, than here. I know many people in CA who don't have a land line at all.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[tpgp]

Well, as an Australian I can honestly say that this will be useless.

From TFA:

Market research companies, pollsters, charities and religious organisations are likely to be exempted.

Riiiiiiggght.... Market resarch companies on the list of exempted organisations?

I'm also quite sure that Politicians will be exempt from this.

And quite frankly - the one person I do not want spamming me is John Howard (lying Australian Prime minister)

This is the phone message he left on many peoples phones prior to the last election:

JOHN HOWARD (phone message): Hello, I'm John Howard. I've taken the unusual step of contacting you with this recorded message to let you know we have recently announced what our first seven tasks will be if re-elected to office. So on Saturday, I ask you vote for your local Liberal member Peter Lindsay. This is John Howard. Thank you for your time.

Think about it - will you trust a do-not-call register from a goverment with a prime minister willing to make marketing calls and send email spam through his son's company?

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[m4dm4n]

I get a certain kind of sick pleasure when asking the person on the other side to explain the offer in detail and then leaving the phone on the desk while I go back to whatever I was doing.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[DingerX]

Yes, in the US, I was on the Do-not-call list, and it did kill a lot of the calls I was getting. For a while. Then election season rolled around and I got call after call from these robo-dialing get-out-the-vote thing. Excuse me? You don't even have the courtesy to pay someone to interrupt my day, and you want me to VOTE for your sorry ass? What kind of a mandate are you looking for? "A vote for me is a vote for more automated government intrusions on your personal life!"

Then someone figured out that "market research" can also be used for marketing purposes. So the calls started coming back:

Sir, I'm doing a market survey. What do you think of the [em]Gazette[/em]'s new layout and extensive sports coverage?

The real solution is burn your phone.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Weh]

I haven't had a tele-marketing call since I gave up my fixed line and use a cell-phone exclusively. I don't know why telemarketers don't bother to call me on my cellphone, maybe because it is more expensive, maybe it is more difficult to get the number in the first place or maybe it is that they can't link the number to a certain target audience (e.g. residential area etc.).

Since cellular became a lot cheaper in recent years giving up the fixed line was only a matter of time. Cell is still a bit more expensive on a per minute basis but not having to pay two subscription fees saves a bit of money in the end.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[minorproblem]

I ussually just start talking in swedish and they go away pretty quickly, works with those hobos who ask for money also.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[ankarbass]

If you have asterisk who cares. It's pretty easy to set it up so that anyone you don't know gets a nice message.

ymmv.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[seifried]

Marketing data is valuable. Why should I give it away for free? You guys are making a profit on the concept that you annoy a lot of people making a few cents or maybe a buck for each annoyed person. Plus there are the scams/etc. to deal with, people selling useless things (if I needed it I would go buy it), getting you to switch long distance carriers, etc. A lot like spam come to think of it. The only way I'll ever get a land line again (it's been 6 years) is with an Asterisk PBX to screen my calls and keep people like you as far away as possible.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[jcr]

Companies seem to love to play the "We have a relationship" card much more than they used to.

That gets them off the hook for the first call. Once you tell them never to call you again, they're in trouble if they persist.

-jcr

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[TapeCutter]

Also it is only for certain hours, they can still call you during the 5:30 - 7:30 time slot when most people are home for dinner. Having once worked a 5yr stint on night shift I know unsolicited calls and door knockers are a pain in the arse. I had a routine that went like this...

Knock, KnoWooof, wooof,wooofock,wooKffGRRRRRRbark,yapyap,,,,KnHoooo wwwl..SIT!
I stomp to front door in my jocks and fling it open looking like the angry love child of Einstien and a 220lb Gorrila...
Me: "What?"
Door knocker: "Oh,umm,err, sorry...did I wake you?"
Me (calmer voice): "No, I was getting up anyway..." - wait for them to relax just a touch- "...TO KILL THE FUCKING DOG!". Slam.

They are getting worse, sometimes I pick up the phone and the trained baboon on the other end has put me on hold!!!

Here's the catch, the companies actually manage to stay in bussiness,ie: it works?!? There can only be one reason for that, there are some people who buy into the bullshit and therfore encourage it. If you know one of these people and want to help them gain some self-respect, telling cold callers to fuck off is a fun and rewarding therapy.

Offtopic: As another slashdotter from OZ I also remember the "pick me" calls from Johnny, but how corrupt is the current "marketing" of the proposed IR changes. I encourage the government to adverstise the law, but the IR changes are still only Johnny's proposal and his party should pay for the propoganda,,,err,,,advertising. OTOH, when it comes to the proposed terror laws they are threatening 30yrs jail for anyone who leaks a draft copy.

Apart from the obvious point about spending taxpayer's money to advertise a party political position on a proposed law, the more subtle point is this: If taxpayer's money is spent so that the public can be "educated" about the draft IR changes, why is the government spending taxpayer's money to keep the public "un-educated" about the draft terror laws.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[kimba]

It must vary. In Australia I was lucky to get 1 or 2 calls a year on my fixed line.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[AussieVamp2]

Yeah, even I have been noticing it a lot more recently, especially having ADSL now One thing to be said for the old dial up internet, using that a lot meant that telemarketers never used to be a problem! :)

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

So what happens when a loved one is in trouble and desperately needs to call you, they grab the nearest phone, which won't be on your whitelist... they can't get through. What if they do have their own phone but haven't got your most up-to-date number - when you're changing numbers all the time, it's not so easy to just remember a single phone number any more. I know this situation can easily happen at the moment with caller id whitelisting, but I think it'll get a lot worse with voip

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Shakrai]

I get a certain kind of sick pleasure when asking the person on the other side to explain the offer in detail and then leaving the phone on the desk while I go back to whatever I was doing.

You think that's bad? One time I was bullshitting with a long distance salesman for about 15 minutes. I knew I wasn't going to buy anything but I didn't have anything better to do so I let him make his pitch. In the middle of all this I got a incoming call. I told him I would have to go -- he said I could put him on hold!

Twenty five minutes later I hung up the phone with my other call. It instantly rang -- he was still patiently waiting on hold even though I had forgotten all about him. There wasn't even any delay -- he was right there.

Kinda sad, actually.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an "opt out" list, but I never remember "opting in" to get the calls. I think the system should work where if you WANT the calls, you put your number down.

That way it would benifit everyone. Majority of people never get calls, the old ladies who WANT the calls get the calls! Simple!

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides all the exceptions, I get companies calling to sell me "services", which they say are not banned. Or to set up a meeting with their sales rep, which they say is not banned.

A do not call list is among the stupidest ideas invented. It's like creating a "do not rob" registry, in which you list what items you do not wish robbed from your house, and give a special penalty for anyone caught robbing those items.

Be sure to give your name, address, and phone number to all the slimes in the world.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Shakrai]

Yes, in the US, I was on the Do-not-call list, and it did kill a lot of the calls I was getting.

The do-not-call list has killed every call that I was getting. I didn't have my landline during the last big election -- but my girlfriend only got three calls during the entire election season -- and she is a registered voter. I'd hardly call three calls in four months annoying -- but that could have to do with the fact that we aren't a battleground state.

In any case, I don't think there would even be a need for a do-not-call list if telemarketers hadn't gotten so viral in the last two or three years. Except for a seven month period where I only had a cell (working on a deployment and moving every two weeks) I have always had a landline. Until the last two years I don't ever recall having a problem. I'd get the occasional long distance solicitation and that was about it -- maybe twice a month or so.

More recently when I moved into my new apartment and got a new phone number I was receiving about five calls a day until the do-not-call registration kicked in. I guess with the advent of cheap long distance and automated dialers telemarketing has become what SPAM is.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[slashname3]

The do not call list here in the U.S. has worked very well. Prior to the list the phone would ring all the time. Now it is very rare that that a solicitor calls. And those that do seem to not know about the do not call list. They get kind of nervous when you explain it to them. Of course prior to explaining it to them get their names, company names, and a contact number. That makes it much easier to report them on the web site for the do not call list.

Of course now that they don't call anymore I can't yank their chains with things like:

"Hello, this is Sears. You recently purchased a TV and we would like to you know there is an extended warrantee available."
"My God woman! Don't call here asking about that TV. I bought that for my girlfriend! I don't want my wife to find out about it!"
"Uh...hmmm...Uh....CLICK!"

Or lead them on with appropriate "uh huh"s. Did this once with a long distance solicitor. Must have kept them on the phone for 15 minutes. Figured it would give someone else a rest during that time.

And shortly after the do not call list went in place there were a fair number of automated calls that did not identify who they were but wanted you to leave a message with your name and phone number. Try leaving a really good rant with lots of cuss words for as long as the system will record. There were some that must have run for five minutes or more. Should have tied up a number of their operators listening to that over and over. :)

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[tezbobobo]

Actually, John Howard (Australian Prime Minister) calling you is enshrined in law. Whilst I support the liberty of confidentiality, I think it is probably important for the government to be able to do that sort of thing should the nneds arise. On the other hand, not being racist, but if a marketing company is going to call me the job better be given to a local person. As much as I like indians, out money should go to our own citizens first. Actually, there's a good idea. Give the jobs to people in the prison system.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[ankarbass]

That's always the hypothetical situation that sells so many cell phones. Still, I bet many don't take their cells into the bath with them. Nevertheless, with voip it's easier than with a typical landline. What if your battery is dead in your cell phone and your teenage daughter is tying up the land line, how is your loved one going to get in touch with you? Oh sure, you have call waiting, but what if your daughter just ignores it?

Almost any pbx can be setup so you can just call it and access it directly if you know where and what to dial to gain access. That's always setup and my "loved ones" know how to use it. Thus, people I trust implicitly will have no problem as they will know the correct sequence of numbers to dial to ring any or all extensions in my house from any number, even a blacklisted one.

Yes, of course, so could a savy telemarketer, but he'd have to break some laws and quite a sweat to do it. I doubt even the most persistant telemarketer will try calling thousands of times to the same residence attempting to discover which extension gains access and which pin codes get you in.

But really to be accessible you need to have a cell phone. I had one for a while, but I didn't like it for a variety of reasons so I got rid of it. If I still had one, however, I could integrate it easily into the pbx and then would never have to give my cell phone number to anyone. But, I digress. So, oh my god, we live day to day with the everpresent fear that we MIGHT NOT be able to reach each other in case of an "emergency".

That's why we have 911 operators you know, so there is someone you can call in an emergency who is trained to help you out. I question whether any situation that doesn't warrant calling 911 is actually an emergency.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[aminorex]

I can attest to that. I *never* get telemarketing calls anymore, since the do-not-call list went
into effect and I have since consistently told everyone whose calls are unwelcome never to call
again.

I'm sorry for Australia, in that they will still get just as many telemarketing phone calls as
before. The 8pm cut-off makes the whole thing into a sorry joke at the public expense.

But then, you deserve it, for attacking Iraq.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[BrokenHalo]

this is just plain RUDE, 30 years ago you wouldn't dream of this crap happening.

Agreed, but a bit of perspective here: 30 years ago we all had finger-in-the-hole phones with pulse dialling. Even if anyone had been so inconsiderate as to come up with the idea, their minions would have been hospitalised with RSI after the first few calls.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[InvalidError]

Telemarketers do not call cell phone numbers precisely because people pay per-minute.

What about if you are outside your home zone? You get a $0.10/min LD charge on top of whatever your airtime charges may be. Me, I am on prepaid... my airtime costs me $0.30/min + $0.20/min for roaming and is rounded up to the next minute, even a split-second answering directly costs me at least $0.30.

Two years ago, I had a problem with an auto-dialer from Express Consolidation: it was hammering my cell number... and I really mean hammering: although my phone is set for Ring Once, I once mistook my phone for someone else because it was ringing continuously and checking the settings showed that the phone was indeed mine and still on Ring Once. (It starts ringing, I answer the first call, hear the first second, turn off my phone for an hour, turn it on again and it starts ringing again. I turned off the ringer/vibrator functions for three hours once and got about 150 'missed' calls.) This crap occured one or two days every few months until I threatened Express with legal action - use of ADADs for sollicitation is illegal in Canada so I could most likely have small-claimed them (after sending a registered C&D letter with compensation request) for a $500 default judgement.

There is not much harm in answering junk calls where incoming land-line calls are unlimited... but on my cell phone, airtime is tightly coupled to my wallet and junk calls directly affect my bottom line.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[BrokenHalo]

... Or just ask them politely to hold for a minute... which turns out to be ten or more. :-)

On an unrelated note (though very much related to the original topic) this whole idea seems somewhat incongrous given that our illustrious (Australian) prime minister deemed it to be perfectly acceptable to *spam* his electorate during his last electoral campaign, so a(nother) tinge of hyprocrisy seems to apply here.

On a totally unrelated note, has anyone any idea why the eds have used Tarzan's Tripes for the flag at the top of this page (above "Politics for Nerds...) ;-)

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Bobsledboy]

I have a similar tactic to this... I start yelling in Chinese and then hang up. Nobody wants to call back someone who yells abuse in chinese with a deep native Queenslander accent, trust me on this =D

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[SPSTech]

"Nevertheless, with voip it's easier than with a typical landline. What if your battery is dead in your cell phone and your teenage daughter is tying up the land line, how is your loved one going to get in touch with you?"

The only reason I still have a Verizon land line is just that - it's a physical copper wire pair going back to their switches. If my power goes out and I have an emergency it's a 99% chance that my phone still works, unlike my computer or cel phone. There's a huge advantage to having the direct wired phones.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[meregistered]

Well heres the story of the rise, decline, and potential fall, of the no-call registry for my state, (and likely the US as a whole):

RISE:
My local state had a no-call registry that was EXTREMELY effective. It allowed non-profit organizations to call anytime before 9pm anyday of the week but anyone else could face serious fines, (much like what it sounds like Australia is planning).
This was EXTREMELY effective.

DECLINE:
However, later there was a national registry created and all of the state registries where pulled into the national list.

FALL:
THEN the lobbying money of the telemarketing companies & companies who benefit from them had the laws surronding the registry questioned and subsequently weakend.

Now we receive telemarketing calls occassionally, which is much better than before the registries but definitely not as good as the state controlled registry (as usual the states do tend to do things well that the federal government tends to screw up).

So I suppose the moral is: it depends on what the laws stipulate.
If the laws could be changed to support an actual no-call list which entialed stiff penalties for calls at anytime I would conjecture high success. In your case I suspect it will be very successful for the times telemarketing is not allowed.

-ME®

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[Jedi Alec]

Actually, there's a good idea. Give the jobs to people in the prison system.

Yah, lovely idea. Just the folks i want to try and sell me a car insurance for a car i don't have, a life insurance for...oh screw it.

Anyway, a similar option is floating around here in Holland atm. I know one thing for sure, folks just are gonna love having inmates reach out into their homes this way.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[ankarbass]

You can have a physical copper line integrated into your pbx if you feel like you need the security. The sipura SPA-3000 even does automatic failover if the power fails so whatever phone is connected to it's input line is now connected directly to the hard copper line.

However, when the power is up, the pbx answers that hard line, or simply ignores it. Your scenario does not negate the usefulness of allowing the pbx to answer the phone.

However, I'm not ready to live under that constant "threat" of what if? The most likely "emergency" is a medical one and what are you going to do if you can't get to your landline because it's downstairs and you can't move? Wireless phones won't help you there, the base stations run off AC. Better get one of those monitored wrist devices that lets you just press a button to summon help. Being able to get ahold of XYZ to tell them you're ok isn't really an emergency but it's the kind of thing people REALLY do during a power outage that gives them that comfort feeling of owning a landline.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[kn0tw0rk]

While this would be a good thing, I still will continue screening calls with the answering machine and/or checking the caller id before answering.

An even better idea would be if the list were a Do-Not-Advertise-At-Me list, to cover all media, phones, email, snail-mail, letterbox drops. But thats just pie in the sky and not so feasable :(

Slightly offtopic, but..
I wish advertising were more limited. I notice this especially when travelling interstate as in Canberra there are no billboard signs to distract when driving, but in Sydney one is bombarded with it.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[SeventyBang]

In the US, it's not just a national DNC, but [individual] state DNC lists as well. Many states have more stringent rules than the national list does. I know Kentucky has a reputation for being tough. Here in Indiana, it's $11k/infraction. When the AG reran, a lot of time was spent talking about the implementation of the DNC and how it was stronger than the national version. In fact, the AG says you don't have to worry about the national version if you enroll with the state, which is updated every three months. One of the ways they fund the system is to require telemarketers to purchase a fresh copy of the list after those updates - IIRC, it's $750. Some telemarketers have tried to make a move in court, claiming they shouldn't be required to purchase this information. My response to that is, "Fine, don't purchase the list. Take your chances on the $11k penalty."[1]

Pollsters can call, but you can then ask them to remove you from the list. I recently received calls from Arbitron three days in a row - and asked to be removed after the first time, but filed with the state AG on the second and third days, and made sure Arbitron understood this once I got a supervisor on the line. Big tip: call centers, whether it's telemarketing, technical support, anywhere there are large masses of people, will resist getting a supervisor on the line, but if you push, and push, and make them understand that if they don't, you'll make sure that when the supervisor gets on the line, the first thing you're going to complain about is the peabrain who couldn't comply with your request. Enough demerits, and that toad is toast - and they know it. Stick to your guns.

(Indiana) Charities can call, but only members of the charity can make the calls. This really ruffled the feathers of groups such as for firefighters, et alia, as they normally hired this out, and paid a cut as a result. Because they can't hire a group, they saw their income slow to a trickle. Banks recently created a cadre and threatened a visit to court because they wanted the right to call their current customers - including those who have said, "leave me alone". I'm not certain where that stands, but it's been quiet for a couple of months. The AG took out 1/2 page ads in the paper listing phone numbers of the banks to call. I sent a note suggesting something a bit more stringent: a 1/2 page ad with a list of the banks' addresses and a statement ala The Boulder Pledge:

Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited e-mail message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community.

but modify it and add, "If you call me without obtaining my permission in advance, I will transfer existing business and will only use a bank [in the future] which is not on the list above."

Then to have them tear it out, and mail it.

It's no big deal to have someone man the phones and route those calls to Dave Null, but when those envelopes come in, they have to open them in case it's real business. And any volume related to that will certainly attract internal attention. I pointed out in my message that I know it puts the AG in a sticky position because while he has constituents to keep happy, the corner offices are the ones who write the largest checks during campaigns and provide cushy jobs when political careers are over.

One of those "real estate" persons who purchases "leads" from spammers called a few weeks ago and once I got all of the info I needed (in case we got disconnected), I informed them they were in violation. stunned silence I asked him how long it was going to take him to make up the $11k it was going to cost him. He said he shouldn't have to pay because he was a victim - the guy he bought the lead from guaranteed him the leads were clean. I told him about Rule #1 Abou

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[RockyMountain]

Voip is to phones what email is to postal mail.

A scary thought indeed, considering the current volume of email spam!

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[lazybeam]

Well in Australia we have calling-party-pays for mobile calls, so there is much less chance of getting telemarketers on a mobile - it costs THEM around 30c/min! All mobiles are 04xx xxx xxx so it is obvious it is going to be a mobile. It doesn't cost anything for incoming calls, except battery power. CPP is a much fairer system.

Re:As an Australian I can honestly say

[name*censored*]

...which was the idea [attacking Iraq] of the same man who thought up the "after-8pm-do-not-call-register" idea. Noticing a pattern here?

Only not after 8pm?

[Anonymous Coward]

... why not a complete ban on those annoying calls all day?

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[cerebis]

It's a bit of a misnomer. Perhaps we might rename it: the national "Only Call Sometimes" register.

As someone that works out of his house, this doesn't help eliminate the interruptions I get during the day.

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[Anonymous Coward]

The article isn't well written and I think the poster has mis-interpreted it. The way I read it, all tele-marketing calls (whether you are on the do-not-call list or not) are banned outsite of the hours stated. I would assume that if you register to be on the list, tele-marketers would be prohibited from calling at anytime. At least, that makes more sense to me.

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[Da3vid]

I'm going out on a limb and assuming that somehow, telemarketing is an important part of the economy. A lot of places get advertising that way and make connections. Anyways, in what ways is banning you from using the telephone like banning you from expressing what you want to say? Isn't this a little bit like cutting some freedom of speech? The only other angle I can see is that repeated calls could be considered harassment. In some ways, I concur with being able to be added to the list, but not with a set time lock. The issue is unclear to me as of yet.
-Da3vid-

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[onwardknave]

I'm on the U.S. Do-Not-Call register, and I've received no sales calls since then. However, nonprofits, and anyone with whom you have a business relationship are exempt. But nobody is supposed to make business calls after 9PM on weekdays, or (I think) any time on Sundays. Just because telemarketers are blocked doesn't mean you won't hear from your lenders or local fire department selling you charity ball tickets.

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[ghmh]

It's a bit of a misnomer. Perhaps we might rename it: the national "Only Call Sometimes" register.

My thoughts exactly. I'm starting to get fed up with Australia lately. Not only are we seemingly incapable of any independent action, we're now managing to screw up even the simplest (sensible) ideas we 'import' from others.

Re:Only not after 8pm?

[ZachPruckowski]

Personally, I think it should be after 6 pm or so, so that I can eat dinner in peace when I'm home. I mean, what idiot telemarkets in the middle of the night? That's just commonsense. If someone wakes me up with a "courtesy call", I'm not buying their product, unless it is a spaceship that is cheaper than my car ($4600 US). And if that happened, I'd pinch myself and wake up.

Telemarketers?

[aussie_a]

The only telemarketers I've got ringing up round here are people we're already with. It's very tempting to cancel our service with them as a result. Then again, we have an unlisted number so I guess that must be the reason. I always figured it wasn't a problem in Australia.

Re:Telemarketers?

[Shanep]

The only telemarketers I've got ringing up round here are people we're already with. It's very tempting to cancel our service with them as a result. Then again, we have an unlisted number so I guess that must be the reason. I always figured it wasn't a problem in Australia.

I also have a silent number and I was puzzled with all these complaints I have been seeing on current affairs type shows. Because I also never receive telemarketing calls.

Re:Telemarketers?

[strider44]

It depends where you live. I moved down from the Blue Mountains, where we got almost no telemarketers (occasionally charities that our family has donated to would ring up, a great thank you from them definitely) to South Sydney where it's a huge hassle with telemarketers ringing every day!

Re:Telemarketers?

[megrims]

I always figured it wasn't a problem in Australia.

It's not, unless you watch Today Tonight.

Re:Telemarketers?

[DavidHOzAu]

I always figured it wasn't a problem in Australia.

It's not, unless you watch Today Tonight.
You'd have an even bigger problem if you watched A Current Affair on Channel Nine. Not only are they're in cahoots with Micro$oft's m$n, as this site proves, but their regional outlet, Win, is in charge of maintaining all the radio transmitters. I understand that in rural Australia their reception is on average 6dBm better than Channel Seven, and that's when you're wearing a tinfoil hat. I can't imagine how bad it would be without one.

Re:Telemarketers?

[Shanep]

South Sydney where it's a huge hassle with telemarketers ringing every day!

Wow. Do you have a silent number?

I live in South Sydney too (karn the Bunnies!) and as I've said, never get called. This number has been silent for a LOOONG time though.

Re:Telemarketers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Same problem here (Melbourne) and it's mighty annoying.

I've had a silent number for about 20 years and a perfect example is the last 1.5 weeks I've had 14 calls from the Commonwealth Bank trying to flog off life insurance. They're persistent I'll give them that but I'm at boiling point (and they aren't going to stop by the looks of it).

Argh!

Re:Telemarketers?

[TapeCutter]

If you are from Oz, DO NOT put your phone number on raffle tickets, particularly the arthritis and diabeties ones (sad that I have to say that, but both are very pushy once they know who you are).

Re:Telemarketers?

[strider44]

I actually once answered the phone to be greeted with "You are currently on hold, this call will be answered as soon as an operator is free." It only took a second but I was just transfixed in shock. An operator answered and I just hung up on him.

Re:Telemarketers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in OZ, my sister has an unlisted/silent number, and only direct friends and family are supposed to know about it (even when making a call her number doesn't show up on the other person's phone). yet from time to time she gets telemarketing calls, and when her hubby questions the telemarketers on where they get the phone number they start lying with "got it out of the phonebook" and/or hang up abruptly.

If there is a way to report just the time/date of when the calls occur, there should be a traceable connection for authorities to pursue if the telemarketers also use silent/hidden numbers. That way when you call the abuse line it is easier to identify the offenders.

and with the annoying marketing calls I get (Optus and Westpac are among the regular guilty parties) I automatically refuse their offer (sometimes just hangup and first hint of telemarketing bullshit). Some don't take a hint and call back in a few minutes or 6 months later!

If I want X, Y or Z product or service I will go down to the bloody shops in person (or check out the local phonebook of services in my area). companies that send telemarketers (especially overseas ones) after me lose my attention.

TELEMARKETING IS EVIL!!!!!!!! BECAUSE YOU CAN'T STRANGLE THEIR FUCKING NECKS OVER THE PHONE!!!!

Now if only phones had a "electrocute caller" button. They will learn to break their evil ways through pain.....

Re:Telemarketers?

[Shanep]

They're persistent I'll give them that but I'm at boiling point (and they aren't going to stop by the looks of it).

Would you consider changing banks? Next time they ring, tell the person that you do not want to receive any more of those calls, tell them that these calls are annoying you and that you are considering leaving the Comm bank because of the annoyance. Keeping in mind that these people on the phone may be in India, work off a commision and really don't give a fuck, go in to your local Comm bank and also tell them of your annoyance and intentions on how to deal with it.

The very next time you receive one of those calls.... close your account and change banks.

You could also cite the fact that your bank is NOT WORKING IN THE INTERESTS OF AUSTRALIANS by closing branches, taking away jobs for Australians and moving those jobs overseas to exploit BOTH Australians and Indians. Find a bank which does not do this and reward them with your business. I'm sure I have seen a bank Advert on TV claiming to provide not only real people on the phone, but real Australians.

Re:Telemarketers?

[lazybeam]

We once found a phone number of a company whos product we were interested in buying, but the operator answering the phone acted like she called us! Something definately fishy there.

Re:Telemarketers?

[lazybeam]

I live in a smaller city in Queensland. The previous tenant of this house had dialup internet running 24/7 - the only reason he had a phone line. First thing I did was switch to a cheaper phone plan ($18.50/m of gouging from Telstra instead of $27.95 - had to specifically ask for the cheaper one and was told $27.95 was the cheapest available...) and put on ADSL (*not* Telstra). The first few months we got several calls a day asking for the previous occupant. But it is very hard to change phone numbers without big problems with ADSL.

Now we mostly get the occasional call informing we can get broadband - the same price as I'm paying now but 1/6th the speed!!!

Re:Telemarketers?

[6th time lucky]

I am getting a lot of these at the moment, or just silence for about 20-30 second before someone "answers" their end. They are all from indian call centers for a range of tellicommunications companies, which i would suspect are just the same people trading under a dozen different names so they can keep calling when i tell them to bugger off...

I once got a wake up call, only to be cheerfully greeted with a "good-afternoon!", now i know this is /. but it *was* the early morning. I completly stumped the droid when i asked them "what time is where you are?" and "where the hell are you calling from anyway?". I then informed them to practice their *australian*-english a little more and try harder next time.

I really want to use the counterscript on them, but they only call when i am busy doing something, and not when i want to sit down and have a deep and meaningfull converstion with someone in another continent...

Re:Telemarketers?

[Mr. Roadkill]

I actually once answered the phone to be greeted with "You are currently on hold, this call will be answered as soon as an operator is free." It only took a second but I was just transfixed in shock. An operator answered and I just hung up on him.

My standard response is to wait until a human finally starts to speak, then cut them off with something like:

"I don't know who you are or who you represent, and frankly I don't care. If your organisation doesn't believe in treating those they call with courtesy and respect, then I don't particularly wish to deal with them until they do. Autodiallers are extremely rude. If this call is the result of a prior relationship with your organisation and you believe there are things someone supposedly at this number needs to know, please have your supervisor call in person to explain the situation. Goodbye."

Funnily enough, no recognisable follow-up calls have been received.

On a karma-burning tangent, are there any really cheap line interface cards available in Australia? With the various open-source PABX implementations available, it should be relatively straightforward to set up a "spam filter" for the phone. Possible features could include:

- Answering calls with caller-ID blocked after two rings, and feeding another thirty seconds of fake ring-tone noises back down the line before bothering to ring the internal phones... similar to a lengthy greetpause in Sendmail

- Routing calls from recognised call-centre outbound numbers directly to voicemail or an anti-callcentre message, in the event that they don't block caller-ID and you've had run-ins with them before. Before long the Phone Abuse Prevention System (TM) will appear, quickly followed by lawsuits and DDOS attacks from various Indian callcentre operators.

Of course, before long we'll end up with VOIP gateways in such implementations, with the outbound calls from your home being routed according to the lowest cost for the call or some quality criterion. About a week later, the Mumbai Mafia will discover how to zombie these machines and millions of phishing calls will come from such compromised voice boxes. At that point, we've all lost.

Re:Telemarketers?

[Shanep]

First thing I did was switch to a cheaper phone plan ($18.50/m of gouging from Telstra instead of $27.95 - had to specifically ask for the cheaper one and was told $27.95 was the cheapest available...) and put on ADSL (*not* Telstra).

I did the same. Most of my communications are through email and mobile, so I went with the $18.50 budget line rental and another DSL provider.

It is a pitty the wireless situation sucks, otherwise I could avoid the telstra copper wire tax altogether. I've tried Unwired and iBurst. Unwired sucked baddly no matter where I used it and at various altitudes in the Sydney CBD. iBurst was awesome for a while there, when I was actually getting 1Mbit/s regularly no matter where in the City and no matter what time. But now it too kinda sucks with wildly varying performance from alright to short periods of no connection at all.

Exceptions

[CriminalNerd]

Are there going to be exceptions to the companies who can call "customers?" ie: Companies working on behalf of the government (aka. pre-election surveys), etc.

I wonder how well this will turn out to be...Looks like we'll have to wait and see.

Re:Exceptions

[novakreo]

From TFA: Market research companies, pollsters, charities and religious organisations are likely to be exempted.

Market research companies and charities would have to be the worst offenders of the lot. If they are exempted the government may as well not bother.

Re:Exceptions

[Anonymous Coward]

Oddly enough, I hardly ever have any problems with charities or market research companies (well, save the one call I got tonight - but that was the first in a looong time). It's always bloody telco's trying to solicit my business.

Re:Exceptions

[jcuervo]

Market research companies and charities would have to be the worst offenders of the lot. If they are exempted the government may as well not bother.

Hell, Gallup used to pay me ten bucks every time they called. Haven't heard from them in a while, though.

$220000?

[Biogenesis]

What's up with the fine amount? $200k + GST?

Re:$220000?

[benk]

It's likely that the fine is expressed in "Penalty Units", the value of which is currently $110. (see http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ ca191482/s4aa.html)

The theory is that Parliament just sets a penalty for each statutory contravention in Penalty Units according to its perceived seriousness, and can update them all automatically eg to account for inflation by amending a single section of a single piece of legislation (the Crimes Act) rather than every section imposing a penalty (which would be a nightmare). It's quite elegant for the legal profession.

It's likely that there will be a maximum penalty of 2000 Penalty Units for the contravention, which today = $220k, and in future may rise.

What's interesting is that some Acts I have dealt impose penalties in the range of 1 to 30 Penalty Units, so this is quite a big fine, relatively speaking. disclaimer - i'm a lawyer but i'm not your lawyer and this is not legal advice. don't rely on it!

Re:$220000?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's object oriented legislation! That's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:$220000?

[riflemann]

This is slashdot. Please simplify your explanation for us in terms of variables. Vis:

root@laws> cat law_x
$PENALTY_UNIT = 110;

root@laws> cat law_y
include 'law_x';
[..]
$penalty_for_crime = 2000 * $PENALTY_UNIT;

(At a later date...)

root@laws> vi law_x
root@laws> cat law_x
[...]
$PENALTY_UNIT = <something else>;

Aussies, be careful

[WindBourne]

I registered for the one in Colorado (the original). I have had no problems (except that I am called all the time by the republican party even though I am a registered libertarian). IIRC, I did not register with the federal one.

But I know of several people that did register with the federal and gets called all the time by everyone (oddly enough, they are now afraid to register in the Colorado one). For all purpose, the federal DB has been a way to get a name, an address, and a number; IOW, the marketers wet dream.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[hool5400]

Ever think they're calling you because you're a 'libertarian'? No point converting the choir and all that.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[WindBourne]

Mostly the call looking for money.

But even when they call trying to convert me, it is an automated machine doing a fake stat that may/may not stop part way when I give the wrong response. Insane thing is that I have been called at midnight via the machines. And according to the state AG and the republican party, I have to know where the call came from to be able to report it (even though they disabled the caller ID).

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Emeye]

I live in the state of Missouri, and our state's Do Not Call list is highly effective. The penalty per call is only $5000, but our Attorney Generl's office enforces it pretty actively. I have goteen less than 15 calls that violated the rules (telephone companies used to be able to call you, but the Attorney General got an agreement out of the major ones in several lawsuits that they wouldn't anymore) since my family got on the list.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Oligonicella]

I'll agree with Emeye. Since registering in Mo., I haven't been bothered by anyone.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about that. I went on the federal list first (before my state had one), and it definitely cut down the traffic. The state one finished it off. I haven't gotten an unsolicited call (from someone I don't have a "relationship" with in two years....

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Bastian]

Wouldn't a do not call list be something that runs counter to liberitarianism?

(No flame, no troll - honest question.)

Re:Aussies, be careful

[WindBourne]

Your rights stop at my nose. You do not have the right to invade my private property. A do not call list is a nice way to say "leave me alone".

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Anonymous Coward]

But the real Libertarian would say that it is not for the government to legislate such things, because since it is an invasion of your private property you already have recourse through the courts.

Come on, if you're going to a Libertarian, go full balls. None of this half-assed shit. Maybe that is why the Republicans are calling you, they know you're not a real Libertarian.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[homerules]

I am on both the New York State and the National Do Not Call List and my calls went from 3-4 a night to maybe 1-4 a month. I am a registered Republican and used to get calls from the party during elections, but I told them that if I got one more call from them that I would vote for any oposing candidate. I no longer get those calls. All political parties should have their own do not call list for members and non-members to join.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Bastian]

But if calling your house is 'invading your property,' and I don't have the right to do so, aren't you implying that nobody has the right to telephone you without your express permission?

I always thought that willy-nilly, made-because-folks-like-it-and-not-because-it's-ra tionally-defensible type laws (like do not call lists) were the exactly kind of thing that Liberitarianism is opposed to.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[WindBourne]

Actually, if you want to go down this path, the libertarian's belief would allow us to sue companies that call us when I have taken great lengths to hide my number (that is, we hold the company responsible for their use of my info). I have paid Qwest money to keep my number private. Likewise, I give out my e-mail and address very sparingly. So if they got it and use it, then I want to know from where, and I should have the right to sue for that, as well as put in a cease-and-desist order. But under republican namby-pamby type laws, I am denied that. Am I in favor of these laws? No (I did not get on the federal list). But if it is there and I am being denied my rights, then I have no other recourse but to use it (or to go to very expensive courts).

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I would not become a republican. They are unable to:

• balance a budget.
• win a war
• capture a single terrorist.
• tell the truth.
• refrain from being traitors.

. And they are total uneducated boors.
'nough said.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[pedroloco]

But if calling your house is 'invading your property,' and I don't have the right to do so, aren't you implying that nobody has the right to telephone you without your express permission?

I'm not the parent commenter, and I'm not a Libertarian, but I would say the answer to that question is "yes." No one has the right to call me without my permission. If I give my phone number to someone else, that may be reasonably construed as my granting permission for that individual to call me. If someone gets my number by looking it up in a book, they have no right to call me as I never granted permission. If a person calls me on the phone that I bought and my answering the phone results in airtime charges, I feel I'm within my rights to demand that the person pay me for the use of my property, airtime and personal time to talk to me (although I've never actually done that... but that's because I rarely answer calls which originate at a number I don't recognize).

Again, speaking as a non-libertarian, my understanding of libertarianism is that laws should be passed to protect people's personal and property rights as well as privacy. This means that libertarians can support laws which make theft and burglary illegal. I think a law that creates a do-not-call list which makes it illegal for people to use my property without my permission is completely consistent with that view.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[Bastian]

So the next question is, is taking up some small amount of your time really theft of property or trespassing? There are already laws on the books that say that you can't market using media where the very act of sending that advertisement forces the receiver to pay - cell phone calls, text messages, fax, etc. A do not call list is a different beast, because it applies to land lines where you do't have to pay for incoming calls. So really all you can claim is that they took some of your time, and maybe annoyed you a bit. You are at liberty to hang up, so you can't hold any time past what it took to find out that this is a telemarketer call against them.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[WindBourne]

Theft, to me, is when something more tangible is taken and denied to me. Other than time and sanity, nothing is taken. SO once I have hung up the sign AND taken the effort to make my place not so accessable to you, then if you have seen the sign (in fact used it to get to my place), then you are trespassing.

Re:Aussies, be careful

[pedroloco]

So the next question is, is taking up some small amount of your time really theft of property or trespassing? There are already laws on the books that say that you can't market using media where the very act of sending that advertisement forces the receiver to pay - cell phone calls, text messages, fax, etc.

My time has value to me. My privacy has value to me. I expect privacy when I'm inside my home. Except in extreme cases, no one has the right to to take *any* of my time when I am in a private setting without my consent. I don't care if it's 10 seconds or 10 hours.

A do not call list is a different beast, because it applies to land lines where you do't have to pay for incoming calls. So really all you can claim is that they took some of your time, and maybe annoyed you a bit.

That argument is immaterial. When I had a landline, I paid for the phone and the service. The phone was in a private apartment that I rented. As long as the telemarketer was on the line, I was deprived of the ability to use the phone and the service I paid for. Sometimes, I'd hang up, immediately try to call someone, and find that the telemarketer was *still* on the line. No one should expect to have right to use my property without my consent except under extreme circumstances. Period.

You are at liberty to hang up, so you can't hold any time past what it took to find out that this is a telemarketer call against them.

True, and when I received these calls I always did so... usually after saying "I'm not interested. Take this number off your list." And I would do it with the next telemarketer... and the next... and the next... ad nauseum.

Imagine someone dealing with a never ending stream of door-to-door salespeople knocking at his/her door. The resident can tell each salesperson to go away, but another one could simply knock on the door a few minutes later. At least with door-to-door salespeople, one can post "No solicitation" and "No trespassing" signs. Unfortunately, I simply was unable to post a "No solicitors" notice that telemarketers could be aware of without calling me first until the Do-Not-Call list came into being.

Like the Libertarian said, "Your rights stop at my nose."

Indeed.

[ionicplasma]

I've had enough of calls from Indian call-centre workers saying they're in Melbourne. It's great when you ask them how the weather is there, and they say the complete opposite of what it acutally is.

It's about time something like this was put in place. But will it work.

Re:Indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but that is how Melbourne is. It can be storming with hail in one place, and sunny a shiny at 40 degrees a few blocks down the road.

Re:Indeed.

[fabs64]

as a melbournian I gotta say it's not quite that extreme.
the weather is reasonably the same across the inner city it just changes very quickly across all of it.

Re:Indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had enough of calls from Indian call-centre workers saying they're in Melbourne. It's great when you ask them how the weather is there, and they say the complete opposite of what it acutally is.

Smell tech support 1.
Smell tech support 2.

These of course from Foamy!

Re:Indeed.

[CmdrGravy]

For a few months last summer we were getting calls from Indian auto diallers every couple of hours, mostly there would be no one on the other end but the one time there was they launched into some small talk about how they shared the same surname as me and how this would lead to a better rapport between us in the conversation to follow, all in a very distinctive Indian accent. I thought it very unlikely this character was telling the truth and the conversation ended abruptly.

Re:Indeed.

[MichaelSmith]

For a few months last summer we were getting calls from Indian auto diallers every couple of hours

We always get an autodialed call with nobody on the other end. The second call has a person on the other end, and you only get that if the automated system detected a person at our end on the first call.

Re:Indeed.

[funkdancer]

With the weather we've been having lately, I dare say it can be quite different according to which side of the city you are on. Living in Northcote with some nice city views I've often seen the CBD being stormed under whilst we've enjoyed relative quiet. As the saying goes, if you don't like the weather, just wait for an hour or two - we really can get all four seasons [less the snow] in one day. :)

Re:Indeed.

[karearea]

We had an issue with Veritas - it wasn't urgent so I said that it was OK to call me back the next day.

I was not expecting a call at 3:30am!! Fucking retard must of had trouble working out what timezone I was in.

I called an Auckland number, that should have been the first clue that the timezone was NZST, the fact that the number I gave them to call back on was a Wellington number should have been clue number 2.

And it wasn't the first time that had happened! Needless to say when I got into work I gave the New Zealand head office a call, rattled some cages and got lots of apologies. I only wish I had the area manager's cellphone at the time.

Re:Indeed.

[laptop006]

I don't know which Melbourne you live in, but in the one I'm in someone 2k away can have completely opposite weather (some days, today it's just hot everywhere...)

Re:Indeed.

[6th time lucky]

It's great when you ask them how the weather is there,

Try asking them what their name is... really, no really. c'mon with an accent like that your name cant be 'Dave' or 'Rachael' (i get a lot of those...)

I remember seeing a doco' inside a call center that had a board with the names of the day on it... line 1=dave, line 2=sandy, line3=.... and *no* i dont believe it was the roster...

ha

[Anonymous Coward]

On a voip line, not a single marketer

How effective has it been in the US ?

[frovingslosh]

How effective has it been in the US ?

It has been pretty effective. Telemarketing calls were coming in hot and heavy right up to the last day, then stopped completely the day the ban went into effect. (Our ban is complete, not just an after-hours ban, as long as there is no business ralationship with the caller.) But since then a few telemarketers have figured thay can get away with breaking the law as long as they keep a low profile. I now get perhaps a call a month that is in clear violation of the law. I report these to my state's Atournet General office, but I've never heard of anything being done about them and over all we have only heard of one or two sucessful prosecutions they have done against anyone breaking this law. So it has helped a lot, but it's not perfect and I would like to see even more teeth in it.

Re:How effective has it been in the US ?

[JumperCable]

frovingslosh has a good point. I probably has been very effective for me since I am very careful about giving out my personal information. Anything that creates a "relationship" with a business or documents that give them permission to have 3rd parties contact me would blow it.

So I avoid:
- Prize give away forms
- Pretty much any freebee that requests name, number &/or address
- I make sure when my banks or credit companies send out requests to share my information to 3rd parties, I clearly reply back with a firm NO.

It's kind of like e-mail privacy, only since it's much easier to track the b@stards down, they really do have to prove a prior business relationship or consent given to be called.

Re:How effective has it been in the US ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a second home elsewhere in the US, and didn't get around to setting up telephone service (with the ILEC) until just before I actually needed it. I forgot to register for the DoNotCall list for a couple of days, however, and was inundated with calls when I finally did arrive at my second home. They did drop precipitously after the 30th day after I'd registered on the Do Not Call list, and the remaining calls disappeared completely after I politely asked for their organization's name, address and telephone number and then told them that they were in violation of Title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 68, Section 1002(b). (Whether that's the most applicable statute or not is irrelevant - it _sounded_ good enough to them and they haven't called back).

There was even a bill collector, and I was very pleasantly surprised when I informed them that I had apparently inherited a deadbeat's phone number and therefore couldn't help them. They actually apologized and never called back, even though their automatic system had been hammering me multiple times!

So, my advice to my Aussie friends (and I'm an ex-VK2, thank you) is to dig in your heels, and make the politicians pass appropriate legislation (with strong penalties - the AUD$220k is a good _start_). Otherwise, they may find the bills for their 013 and 0800 numbers skyrocket with all of the spurious incoming calls from the voters. Australia seems to be becoming very draconian about certain aspects of the Internet, so perhaps applying that same mindset to annoying telephone calls could actually benefit society for once. Otherwise, use some of the techniques on the callers that have proven successful in the past - act dumb when they call, waste their time, call their freephone numbers incessantly with dumb questions, fill out subscription cards for magazines in their names, etc., etc. When they figure out what it's costing them indirectly, they might ultimately stop.

Re:How effective has it been in the US ?

[biggaijin]

The main problem remaining in the US is that non-profit organizations, charities, opinion pollsters, and other such groups are still free to call and bother you. I find that they like to do it at about 6:30 PM when they suspect someone will be at home eating their supper (as I usually am when these calls come). The best remedy I have found is my teenage daughter. I gave her free rein on how she treats these people after she is sure who they are, and she enjoys jerking them around. Very few of the calls get through to me now.

Re:How effective has it been in the US ?

[intnsred]

I'm glad that's been your experience.

But for the record, my own experience is completely different. I'm constantly hammered with telemarketing calls. My opinion is that this type of an "opt out" law is deliberately designed by business for business.

Re:How effective has it been in the US ?

[frovingslosh]

Yea, there are plenty of lame exceptions, including for the politicians themselves. I always ask these callers to hold for a few seconds, then put the phone down and don't go back to it. I figure however long they wait for me they can't be bothering someone else in that time.

Pretty darn effective

[JumperCable]

Of course the voluntary Do Not Call list that the telemarketer association had before hand cut down calls to about 20 a year. But that one took more effort to get on.

Right now, the only calls I get are from politicians & non-profits (which are exempt). There have been a couple of calls from non-listed numbers trying to make sales. But since I put in such an effort to hunt them down, they haven't called back. And a couple of scam artists claiming to raise money for the police fund.

Of course with new technologies such as VOIP I expect things to change. With a lower price for over seas calls it's bound to get as bad as spam.

Not to rain on your parade...

[jettoki]

About time something like this should be set up. How effective has it been in the US ?

It hasn't done much. Telemarketing companies use loopholes to get around it. Starting the call with some particular phrase exempts them from the fine, or some bullshit like that. We've asked a dozen times for them not to call, but they have some reply ready for it now. This is in South Carolina, mind you.

In Sweden

[gagge]

We've had this in Sweden for some years, a register called "NIX" (which means something like "nope").
I think it works pretty well but not 100%. It's really easy to sign up, just call a number, enter your home phone number and confirm.

Re:In Sweden

[holyceefax]

In UK we have a kind of 'voluntary code of conduct' enforced by BT and the telecoms regulator. If you're a BT customer you can sign up to a blacklist; telemarketers aren't allowed to phone you if you're blacklisted, and can lose their licence if do. It worked up until recently, when they realised that they only had to move their operations abroad and they'd be beyond the reach of the regulator. Now I get plagued by the same sales calls as ever, only they're now coming from Indian or USA.

What about 8pm?

[ajdlinux]

So it's only at night is it? It's just as annoying when it interrupts work in the day.

Works in the UK too

[irw]

Nobody asked, but...

I stayed off the do not call list in the UK ("telephone preference service") for a while, used to average one call per day. Im not getting any since joining, though it took a month or two to settle down.

Like the US, it's a complete ban unless they already have a business relationship with you.

Re:Works in the UK too

[DrSkwid]

I can concur that it is a success.

I've also thoroughly enjoyed taking the two sales calls I have received, gettting all their details to fill in the online complaint form etc. then asking for their supervisor, then telling them they have comitted an offence under the Telecommunicatiobs Act and that I shall be passing on their details to the authorities =)

Re:Works in the UK too

[a24061]

I agree: the TPS works.

The Mailing Preference Service also works but not quite as well. It doesn't eliminate junk mail but it reduces it significantly.

Re:Works in the UK too

[Nobby Nuts]

We've been on in the UK for a year or so now. Not had a single call in all that time.

Re:Works in the UK too

[Anonymous Coward]

The TPS mostly works (Register now! 0845 07 007 07 or http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/). However, some calls still come through (e.g. the notorious "you have won a holiday, press 1 now" calls that come from the US).

Some companies called after the theoretical cut-off date, despite being told repeatedly not to call (Toucan Telecom, this means you. Why would I want a phone company that sides with the telemarketers? Also, why, when calling do you say "you are going to recieve XYZ call offer with no obligation?" Is this to trick me into signing up?). However, these calls seem to have pretty much dried up.

Re:Works in the UK too

[jellical_cat]

I had a similar experience. Calls dropped off quite quickly and the few that came through generally degenerated into a paroxism of appologies when told I was on the register - these I believe were genuine errors. I did get a few calls claiming other members of my household had made contact some months before (bad luck guys, I have lived alone since my divorce many years ago) and these I reported for what it is worth. Mail preference also works reasonably well against targeted mail, but does nothing to help with the bulk-delivered "to the occupant" crap that the postal service deliver. I used to throw anything not personally addressed straight into the recycling but after throwing away by electoral registration form and community charge (property tax) discount form one year I have had to become a bit more selective.

Re:Works in the UK too

[Anonymous Coward]

>Like the US, it's a complete ban unless they already have a business relationship with you

I'm a bit suprised it's as successful as you say. I would have thought that "business relationship" was a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. ... any store/service/online-company that you've ever dealt with that can get hold of your phone number; any organisation that you have ever given 2 minutes attention to; anyone you've ever called to enquire about a price .....

No phone, no problem

[JanneM]

I haven't had a landline for two years. I have a mobile phone with silent ring if it's someone not in the addressbook, and Skype with contact disabled if not approved by me. No telemarketing or nuisance calls whatsoever.

Re:No phone, no problem

[DarkEdgeX]

Yeah, that's the thing that bugs me about landline phones. Despite how popular they still are there's been very little innovation over the last decade or so. You'd think landline phones would have integrated capabilities such as those you describe for Skype (e.g. - disable ring if phone number isn't in address book, and especially disable ring if caller ID has been disabled by the remote caller). It seems landline phone vendors are more interested in selling you 2.4 GHz or 5.8 GHz (or whatever frequency "teh new" for now).

Something else I'd love to see is a phone that has a memory slot (compact flash or memory stick or anything really) that you can put a card into either a) to expand the amount of memory available for saving messages and caller ID data or b) providing the primary means of storage for messages and caller ID data (in this case, the phone would probably come with some small-ish 32/64 MB card). Messages would be saved in MP3 format (or OGG even if the licensing allowed it).

I think if I didn't actually use the landline so much I'd probably ditch it and go 100% cellular...

Re:No phone, no problem

[root_42]

But what if someone you know calls you from a foreign phone? And what if that call were urgent, for example?

Re:No phone, no problem

[dun0s]

The thing I like about landlines, at least in the UK, is that they just work. They don't crash, they don't have silly ringtones, they don't have network unavailable messages (unless there is a bomb or something), you don't have to reboot your phone. It is one of the few bits of technology that just works year in year out.

Re:No phone, no problem

[DarkEdgeX]

Sure, and there's no reason they can't get a few minor upgrades without crashing or having 'network unavailable' messages.. but these new wireless phones they sell at $150-200 USD premiums are pretty pathetic given how little they've improved.

Re:No phone, no problem

[seifried]

They can leave voicemail. Despite what people think most don't have to be in contact 24/7, humanity did fine without phones for several millenia. You really want to amaze people? When your cell phone rings look at it and hit the hang up button to send them to voicemail and say "I'll get that later when we're done, right now I'm with you."

Re:No phone, no problem

[JanneM]

But what if someone you know calls you from a foreign phone? And what if that call were urgent, for example?

And what if I'm not home? Or have forgotten to turn on the mobile? Or my aqcuaintance didn't have change for the payphone? Or I'm driving and don't hear the signal? Or...

Up until ten years ago there was no way for most people to be reachable 24/7, and no perceived need. You could get a beeper but very few people would bother unless it was for work. It was very rarely a problem then, and so far has never been a problem for me. If they can't reach me, they can call another friend, or try to guess where I am and try there, or just send an email - it's fast enough after all.

Re:No phone, no problem

[tooth]

Well, since I moved to a cave on the southern slopes of Mt. Kosciusko *I* haven't had a call or asingle visitor in 3 months! It's a long hike to the nearest internet cafe to post to slashdot, but well worth it! :-) and best of all, no more personal grooming for me!!

Re:No phone, no problem

[Bastian]

I think the problem is that, after decades of state-sanctioned monopolies, the land line providers aren't used to competition and aren't quite sure how to handle this shiny new phenomenon. I get the impression that they're just now catching on to the fact that they really do have competitors, and that those competitors are way ahead of them.

Re:No phone, no problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So THAT is why I can't get in touch with you! I'll move on and try your best friend now..

Paris Hilton

Re:No phone, no problem

[jasgo]

You really want to amaze people? When your cell phone rings look at it and hit the hang up button to send them to voicemail and say "I'll get that later when we're done, right now I'm with you."

... is it really that unusual to do that? I do it all the time, as do many people I know.

Re:No phone, no problem

[Ramadog]

I would have said it was unusual.

A lot of the people I know will terminate any face to face contact when the phone rings. They have to answer it. Eating dinner, just sat down to a good movie, in the shower, it does not matter what they are doing when the phone rings. They must answer and obey.

A lot of the same people will abort exiting phone calls when call waiting indicates someone else is trying to ring them. This one really does not make sense to me. You call someone on the phone. After a bit call waiting indicates a 3rd party is trying to ring so you terminate the existing conversation to answer the new person. Why bother ringing in the first place?

Re:What about 8pm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you fucking kidding me? Freeipods-style MLM shit, bugging your friends, spamming links in sigs, etc, so you can "earn" a free domain that you can buy for $3?

Re:the UK needs this badly.

[irw]

It's called the telephone preference service

Just use this

[mattjb0010]

The telemarketer counter-script.

Re:Just use this

[alwsn]

And even better way to handle telemarketers.

1) When the call you, make sure tell you their name and who they are calling on behalf of.

2) After they tell you this information, politely say. "I'm not interested. Please don't call me again at this number. Thank you" and hang up.

This will accomplish two things. One, since they have said their name and who they are calling for, it is officially a 'contact'. If you just hang up on the person as soon as they say "Hey, this is Bill, can I talk to (your name mispronounced)?" then you won't be considered contacted because you never heard the name of the place they are calling for. If you aren't marked as contacted you will be called again, perhaps two or three times before they give up on you.

If this entertaining? No. But, it is the nice thing to do. Telemarketing is a shitty job that no one really wants to do. I did it when I was in college because I needed the cash. Did I go whistling to work just hoping I could annoy some people at home? No.

Of course you can't dick around with telemarketers because they aren't allowed to say anything. This isn't you outsmarting anyone, or being cooler than anyone, they just simply can't argue with you and follow the rules. Could I beat the shit out of someone who was paralyzed from the waist down? Hell yes! Would I ever do it? No, because just because it's easy to do, doesn't mean you should do it.

Re:Just use this

[drsmithy]

Telemarketing is a shitty job that no one really wants to do. I did it when I was in college because I needed the cash. Did I go whistling to work just hoping I could annoy some people at home? No.

Mate, that's pretty desparate for cash. Why didn't you choose something relatively respectable, like drug pusher or illegal immigrant sweatshop overseer ?

Re:Just use this

[antic]

If they're trying to give you a free offer, insist on paying for it. Say that you like paying for things and that you've got two months to live and a friend challenged you to spend all of your money before you die.

It's usually an intro to a funny conversation and a very excited telemarketer!

Re:Just use this

[jcr]

politely say. "I'm not interested. Please don't call me again at this number. Thank you" and hang up.

Why politely? They still have to put you on the do-not-call list if you say "put me on your do not call list for all customers, right fucking now, you greasy little motherfucker", which is not only more satisfying, it also helps to make the caller's job less tolerable.

Telemarketing is a shitty job that no one really wants to do.

Ah, but that's precisely why it's important to heap abuse upon telemarketers. The more unpleasant the job is, the higher the attrition will be, and the less cost-effective telemarketing becomes.

I did it when I was in college because I needed the cash.

I hope the experience was so unpleasant that you'd never consider doing that job again.

-jcr

Re:Just use this

[Anonymous Coward]

I will recall one of the calls I got before:

Outsourced marketing dude: Hi, I have called to give you a great deal off your phone bill.
Me: Ahh, hi thats great, sorry I am just about to leave the home to goto work could you call me on my mobile and tell me more info, in about lets say 5min?
Outsource marketing dude: Umm, ok just give me your mobile number?
Me: I would of thought you already had it, but anyway here let me get it for you, just hold a second.
Meanwhile I run to the corner store and buy a brand new $5 sim card and run back to the phone.
Me: Ahh sorry just had to goto the bathromm, well any here is my mobile number: (reading the new number off the sim box) could you call me in about 5min on my way to work.
Outsource marketing dude: Yea sure.
*click*
I quickly get my mobile put in the new sim card and make it auto redirect the number to the local police station.

Thats the end off that and I ended up with $2.53 left over on that $5 sim, so all is good if I ever I need to do this again.

Re:Just use this

[F_Scentura]

"politely say. 'I'm not interested. Please don't call me again at this number. Thank you' and hang up.

Why politely? They still have to put you on the do-not-call list if you say 'put me on your do not call list for all customers, right fucking now, you greasy little motherfucker', which is not only more satisfying, it also helps to make the caller's job less tolerable."

It's good to be polite, because the frustrated, struggling and overstressed telemarketer may happen to "forget" to place someone on their DNC list if they're an asshole. I did collections for a while until better work appeared, and saw that happen on more than one occasion.

Re:Just use this

[Nf1nk]

It's good to be polite, because the frustrated, struggling and overstressed telemarketer may happen to "forget" to place someone on their DNC list if they're an asshole. I did collections for a while until better work appeared, and saw that happen on more than one occasion.

If they fail to put you on thier do not call list there are specific penalties that can be applied to the company so be sure to record the name of the company in a ledger of each of the greasy little motherfuckers who call you.

Re:Just use this

[Buran]

Because the state attorney general responsible for enforcing my state's do not call list, which I'm on in addition to the federal one, won't "forget" to fine your ass if you fail to put me on the list.

Re:Just use this

[Anonymous Coward]

Why politely? They still have to put you on the do-not-call list if you say "put me on your do not call list for all customers, right fucking now, you greasy little motherfucker", which is not only more satisfying, it also helps to make the caller's job less tolerable.

^because thats called assault (you stupid motherfucker ;p )

Re:Just use this

[jcr]

telemarketer may happen to "forget" to place someone on their DNC list ...which exposes their employer to considerable losses if that person litigates.

-jcr

Re:Just use this

[jcr]

No, that's verbal abuse, not assault. Assault is when you take a swing at someone in person.

-jcr

Re:Just use this

[Frogbert]

As a former telephone survey operator I can assure you that: a. We did not care what you said to us b. Our job sucked but it paid well c. we recorded the calls and played back the really abusive ones for laughs. So don't worry about being polite, I didn't care if someone hung up on me I had 300 other numbers waiting for me after that and if you are going to abuse me make sure its good and funny.

Already got it!

[gefafwysp]

We've had it for years; it's the Telephone Preference Service and you can sign up online.

Re:Already got it!

[innlegg]

Same here in Norway!

The ultimate geek prank phone call

[strider44]

(Ring up someone you really hate at midnight sunday night)

*Ring Ring*

Hi, I'm from Microsoft. Have you heard about the exciting new things Windows now has to offer your business or home?

Re:The ultimate geek prank phone call

[Mateito]

Two birds with one stone. I like it.

US telemarkets UK

[Kryptic Knight]

Oh the US system is very effective... providing you're in the USA.

Unfortunately without a target audience they now target the UK with thier junk.
And there's no legslative or punitive control over the US against them calling here, even with our own TPS (telephone preference service) register.

I've given up counting the number of "silent calls" by companies using automated call engines with insufficient call center staff to handle the calls generated.

Re:US telemarkets UK

[shrewd]

you think thats annoying?????
often i have run out of the bathroom in a towl to pick up the phone and be put on hold by an automated voice, they then play some elevator music, and an operator picks up.... as soon as i hear the music now i give the phone a good slam...

nowdays their actually training those ofshore telemarketers to sound Australian (i assume to sound American when they call America and to sound english etc) of coarse this strange aussie accent and odd tendency to bring up strange topics such as the weather and Australia specific issues can be quite hilarious :)

Re:US telemarkets UK

[plaxion]

That's why I've learned to say hello once and only once and then hang up after a there's been a pause that's longer than a second or two. If it was a human on the other end calling me they would have starting speaking by that time, so it's safe to say that I was dialed by one of those auto-dialers. If I ever get it wrong and it was someone I know, they would just call right back (and hopefully be quicker on the uptake), but that's yet to happen. The machines OTOH, conventiently just go on to the next number on their list.

Re:US telemarkets UK

[amelith]

There seems to be no way to get these US based spam calls stopped. I pay a monthly fee for the Anonymous Call Rejection service, it doesn't work on international calls so its worthless for these. The spammers don't take any notice of the TPS register either.

I've complained to BT about it who say there's nothing they can do to stop them. I've also written to OFCOM, who haven't acknowledged my complaint after 6 weeks.

These silent calls really upset the elderly, including my parents. I'd really like something to be done about it but nobody seems interested in stopping them.

Ame

Re:US telemarkets UK

[Anonymous Coward]

This might be my fault. When I had a place in SC I got into the habit of replying to telemarketers with the phrase "You've just dialled a number in England. For God's sake, man, do you realise what time it is here?!!!"

Re:US telemarkets UK

[speardane]

I agree it's intensely annoying. People like Cele........ World Resort, the most recent abuser are deliberately flouting the local (ie UK)laws. Yes I mean you Alex and Samira! You neither have a god given right to act as Outlaws, nor to talk over me when I explain that you are deliberatly flouting UK laws, whether you sit in the UK, US or Australia! What would the outcry be if people outside the US deliberately broke US law wrt US residents? If that is not reasonable why should the reverse be? As commerce via internet or phone goes increasingly global we need legal rights to be respected not according to the country of the initiator, but the country of the recipient. and I like the idea above about using an airhorn!

hmm..

[Archon-X]

"Market research companies, pollsters, charities and religious organisations are likely to be exempted."

How many people suddenly turn into 'Market Research Companies' that give you a holiday for completing their poll?

If this is the same thing I saw just on TV, did I hear correctly in that there was mention of a $20 signon fee?

Someone's being greedy here, if that's the case.

"No cold calling" zones.

[puke76]

Meanwhile in the UK, the Trading Standards Institute is extending physical "no cold calling zones" .
Let's face it, if I want to buy something, I'll do it online or go out and get it. I'm not waiting for someone to come to me with a stack of encyclopedias.. or call me with an amazing offer whilst I'm halfway through my dinner..

Re:"No cold calling" zones.

[Sierpinski]

I'd never give any information (personal, credit, or otherwise) to ANYONE who calls me. If my bank calls me and tells me there is a problem, I will tell them that in order to verify that this is a legitimate call, I will call the bank's customer service number, then ask for instructions on how to reach that person again. More than half the time, they just hang up.

Like I tell everyone in my family, never never never (did I say never?) NEVER give your information to anyone who calls you, especially if the caller ID says 'Unknown' or 'Private' or 'Blocked'.

UK Perpsective

[Elfod]

In the UK, as other poster have nebtioned we have the TPS - Telephone Preference Service. You register your number and telemarketeres can't ring you unless there is a previous relationship or you opted into reeiving call from them. Before this peice of legislation I got about 2-3 calls a week, usually in the evening. Since becoming law, I now get 7-8 calls a day minimum, all from overseas call centres. I know this because I have caller ID. I even block calls that withold their number (typically from PBX systems) but that doesn't help either. It's so bad I'm eyeing up a mini-ITX board to build some sort of phone spam filter using the aller ID :-(

Re:UK Perpsective

[TheHawke]

Try rigging out your own PBX system likes Asterisk. Make folks punch in #s to get to one of your lines. Autodialers can't handle that so they hang up.

talk back

[Lil-Bondy]

ever tried talking to them casually? untill they eventually ask 'why did you call me?' 's happened to me

Or this :)

[kale77in]

Ah, that's gold. You can also just put the phone down quietly and walk away if you get one of those "keep right on talking so the 'customer' doesn't have a chance to say no" calls.

I've considered the following option too, but since moving away from a nice water-front address, I get less calls of this kind. Oh, and because I don't have a landline now. That's a factor too. (Or home web access.) You just get so much *life* back...

Them: "HiI'mcallingonbehalfofcompanyx Wehaveafantasticopportunityforblabhblahblah--"

Me: "Let's start by discussing my rate!"

Them: "???"

Me: "You wish to profit from my time. My standard rate is $60.00 per 15 minutes (or part thereof). Can you match or better this offer?" ... and so on.

Market force be with you!

UK - Slightly Effective

[CmdrGravy]

We have a similar scheme in the UK but I'd say it only has limited success, we still get a lot of calls from auto diallers from call centres in India during the day and maybe a couple of UK telemarketers each month.

In order for them to be fined you have to find out who they are and you tend to find that as soon as you point out they can be fined for calling you and what was the name of their company again they instantly put the phone down.

Re:What about 8pm?

[weharc]

No I believe that the 8pm rule would apply to telemarketers going about their normal business and calling people who aren't on this list.

People on the list can't be called any time of the day

Pretty efficient here too

[Jugalator]

I live in Sweden, and we have a system like this too. It works reasonably well, although you still get these calls if you have some sort of relationship with them, which they rarely hesitate to abuse. Let's say you're an ISP customer. You'll now get calls about their new phone deals every half a year or so as they expand into the Internet phone market. Or about TV channels as they expand into Internet TV.

Re:Pretty efficient here too

[josephdrivein]

In Italy it's pretty efficient too. We have a register in which you have to ask to be included if you wish to recive advertisement phone calls. Obviously none signs in except a few that really enjoy those call.

At the beginning call centers tried to have everyone added to the register and then you had to ask to be removed if you wished. In this way the law would have been uneffective. But their effort did not succed and now a lot of them are closing down.

I've not recived one of those annoying calls for more than a year, and I'm really pleased about it.

Re:Pretty efficient here too

[Mateito]

The big advantage that you have in that neither the Italians nor the Swedish colonised Indina, leaving a billion cheap potential telemarkets who already speak your language.

I'll never forgive the poms for that.

Interesting ...

[apathy maybe]

I don't get that many calls now, and I don't think I will sign up for this. It is just another place for your phone number. I just hang up if I am annoyed.

The way it works is if you are on the no call list, you can't be called at all. Else you can only be called during the day. It also applies to call centres outside Australia if an Australian company has contracted the call centre.

(It is also ironic that the US flag is under the Slashdot whilst talking about Australia. We are after all the 53rd state (after the UK and Canada).)

Re:Interesting ...

[MichaelSmith]

Else you can only be called during the day.

My wife works from home, and she gets a lot of these calls during the day. I suppose the point is that large companies only have the reception desk listed in the book, so they get the junk calls. Small businesses get the full brunt of it.

Perhaps it is worse to get these calls at night, but it is pretty bad getting them during the day.

ironic that the US flag is under the Slashdot whilst talking about Australia.

Perhaps they should have an Australia icon under the politics category.

Re:Interesting ...

[habig]

It is also ironic that the US flag is under the Slashdot whilst talking about Australia. We are after all the 53rd state (after the UK and Canada

An Australian friend used to say that the only real difference between the early American and Australian settlers was that the Americans were the crooks who managed to get away.

So have a star, join the fun.

Re:Interesting ...

[Buran]

(It is also ironic that the US flag is under the Slashdot whilst talking about Australia. We are after all the 53rd state (after the UK and Canada).)

Amused point taken, though in reality I think it's just the generic "politics" theme.

Works for Me.

[OC_Wanderer]

I have 2 phone lines. Neither gets unsolicited calls. I've been on the federal do not call list since it started. My wife started getting hassled by an overseas telemarketer, so we turned the ringer off on that line (it's the second line anyway). Stays pretty quiet at my house.

Not a single marketer that you can hear

[Anonymous Coward]

I get calls all the time just cant tell who the hell they are from

Its a good step...

[Sathias]

...now if we can get our current Prime Minister to hold off on recorded telemarketing calls pimping for votes during an election and it will be an even better step.

Yes

[Zouden]

Yes it is because of GST:
$220,000 = 2,000 penalty units, each PU being $110.
The cost of a PU went up from $100 to $110 with the introduction of the 10% GST, although it gets updated every few years anyway.

State law

[ffrinch]

In the Australian Capital Territory, telemarketers are covered by the Door-to-Door Trading Act anyway, with the same hours as listed above. Some things (e.g. charities) are exempt, but that'll probably be the case with this list too. Getting calls inside those hours is still f$%(*&$ annoying; if it can't get them to leave you alone during the day as well then I don't see the point.

Also worth noting that the Australian Direct Marketing Assocation already has an opt-out form. A compulsory govt.-run one would be better, but in practical terms I doubt it'd make much of a difference.

Re:State law

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should one have to opt-out of everthing if you didn't want to opt-in in the first place?

they should be totally banned from calling you unless you initiated the business relationship with the specific companies and have a current account status with them anyway.

Defining Terms...

[Da3vid]

The question is where do you cut the line with telemarketers? Do we define telemarketer as a person calling your phone in order to persuade you to buy something? Do political parties count? What about non-profit organizations that are trying to gain your support? What if the call is intended to be informative? What if its a company that you somehow were within 2 miles radius of and wants to know your opinion? I realize that we have made a lot of these decisions in the US legally, I don't know how they stand in other countries. I'm not particularly asking what the law *is* but what it should be. On an unrelated note, should the telephone infrastructure be treated similar to internet infrastructure? Should it be a sort of public forum, with free speech rights? Is making your phone ring considered an intrusion on privacy? Or is it that repeated ringing amounts to something like harassment? I'm not claiming to have answers yet, I'm just highlighting questions. -Da3vid-

UK Telephone Preference Scheme

[jjeffrey]

We have a "do not call" register in the UK. It has been completely ineffective.

The marketing companies just ignore it because:

a) No-one is enforcing it.
b) They have a loop hole for "out of date" lists
c) A lot of companies seem to call in from outside the country, circumventing it (often Indian call centers, or recorded messages).

Re:UK Telephone Preference Scheme

[StoatBringer]

The TPS seemed to work quite well for me. Since signing up we rarely get any calls at all.

Re:UK Telephone Preference Scheme

[jjeffrey]

My folks have been on the register for years - they still get about a call a day.

Re:UK Telephone Preference Scheme

[Epsillon]

What *really* makes my blood boil, jjeffrey, is that you pay BT (do any alternative words for that acronym come immediately to mind?) to bar anonymous calls. It costs nearly a ruddy fiver a month. OK, so anyone with a UK witheld number cannot call you. Yet the service doesn't work for international calls (read: Indian bleedin' chicken coop) because THEY DON'T SEND A COMPATIBLE CALLER-ID! I just told them I don't want calls from anyone who doesn't have the decency to let me know who they are, and an incompatible caller-ID fits that description nicely. I don't give a rat's arse if they're from India, Outer Mongolia, Antarctica or flippin' Uranus, just give them the nice little message telling them, politely, to piss off.

Not only that, but I'm on the TPS and it's something of a toothless entity because when you report something they don't give a toss. Safestyle UK, eight phone-calls, each logged and names and callcentre location obtained. Filled in their form to report the bastards. Answer? We can't do anything. What do they want, full medical history and the caller's family tree?

Then there was the idiotic bint from India that rang me back after I put the phone down three times on one of her operatives. She decided that it would be fun to say, and I quote: "Don't be so f*cking ignorant!" before she, too, was treated to the SNU tone.

I don't care that these people have to make money. As far as I am concerned, they are some of the pushiest, rudest, most ignorant bastards God ever put on the face of this planet. If anyone from the Direct Marketing Association (the people behind the TPS) is reading, just keep your ignorant marketing-bots away from me. In future, I will be politely asking them to hold the line whilst I find the householder. Since that is me, they will be sat there waiting a bloody long time.

OK, rant over. Thanks for helping me let off some steam :-)

I have a better solution...

[EvilCabbage]

... keep an airhorn near the phone.

I've tried being polite. I've tried being curt. I've tried being downright fucking rude, and it still didn't put the bastards off disturbing me in my domocile for no good reason.

Re:I have a better solution...

[meringuoid]

... keep an airhorn near the phone.

That I like, but we could do better.

I'm thinking it maybe wouldn't be too difficult to hack together a system to sit between your phone and the socket which would do nothing but play a really loud noise onto the phone line at the press of a button.

You might even have a menu to choose from. Let's see, how shall I interrupt the telemarketer's script this time? 'Airhorn, v loud' - good. 'White Noise' - nice, might make them think their system's broken. 'Beep, Sinusoidal, Annoyingly High Pitch' - a possibility. 'Baby Crying' - cruel! 'Barney Theme Song' - perhaps excessively sadistic. 'Fingernail On Blackboard Noise' - they don't deserve that yet. No, I think this telemarketer gets the 'Burst of Incomprehensible Dialogue From Puni Puni Poemy'. * click *

And having built it, post a webpage and submit to /. so we can all applaud.

Re:I have a better solution...

[AussieVamp2]

Yeah, that sort of thing should work. My grandfather was a ship captain, he had a really good whistle from that. The parental teacher types had football umpire type whistles for the inevitable prank phone calls from kids. Should work on dodgy Indians, but probably not computers!

Re:I have a better solution...

[Anonymous Coward]

that's pretty thoughtless that you'd want to damage someone's hearing just for calling your house. it's not like they do it because they want to, it's their job. if causing them physical pain and possibly permanently damaging a part of their body makes you feel better, i think you may have lost your way somewhere. they don't have many options and usually have very little education. they have themselves and often dependants to feed, and must heat their dwelling somehow.

next time, just talk to them like a human being and get them to put you on their 'do not call' list, which any marketing firm should employ in some form or another, or don't answer the phone so much if it bugs you to do so.

Re:I have a better solution...

[Anonymous Coward]

> No, I think this telemarketer gets the 'Burst of Incomprehensible Dialogue From Puni Puni Poemy'. * click *

I'm just curious, but did you mean to imply that there was *comprehenisble* dialogue somewhere in PuniPuni Poemy? Where!?

Re:I have a better solution...

[jandersen]

No, no, no, what we need is a never ending menu system...

spamfilters

[radu124]

If you have caller Id you can implement spamfilters on telephone set.

Put some nice message on autoanswer for those numbers, just to waste some of their time like they waste yours.

Too many exceptions in the US

[spywhere]

The law in the US has helped, but there are still telemarketers of one type or another.

I work from home, and use my cell as the business phone. Our POTS line gets five or six calls a week, even with the law and Anonymous Call Rejection... but at least ACR means that I have a phone number displayed for those that do get through.
Some are companies we deal with, but I tell them to put us on their Do Not Call list immediately or lose our business. (I 'threatened' the NRA: I explained that I would donate $100 to the Democratic National Committee for each subsequent call... alas, there were no more calls).
Some claim exemption from the law, saying they don't have a Do Not Call list. I reply that they'd better start one, because I will charge them with harrassment and criminal tresspass in Delaware if they ring my phone again, and did I mention that my wife is a lawyer? (They never call again).

Most important is to take a polite but aggressive approach as soon as you answer the phone, controlling the call (and therefore the caller):
Hello, this is Tina from AMC and I...
Tina? What's your full name, Tina?
Tina Brown...
Thank you, Ms. Brown. I am required by Federal law to inform you that this call is being recorded. And what do the letters "A M C" stand for, Ms. Brown?
Uh, the Annoying Marketing Council...
And where is the Annoying Marketing Council located, Ms. Brown?
In Walla Walla, Washington, but I...
And what is the phone number of the Annoying Marketing Council, Ms. Brown?
Sir, I am not permitted to...
Actually, Ms. Brown, Federal law requires you to provide that information.
Okay, it's 215-555-4242...
Ms. Brown, the reason I've asked for this information is to put your company in my [imaginary] Telemarketer Database, and now I need you to put this number on your Do Not Call list, effective immediately.
I can do that, sir, but it takes up to 30 days to be removed from our list...
Actually, Ms. Brown, you will need to make sure it happens immediately. If I am called again by the AMC -- even if it's five minutes from now -- I will immediately file civil and/or criminal complaints against the Annoying Marketing Council, and against you personally.
Sir, I should let you speak to my supervisor...
No, Ms. Brown, Federal law requires that you, the caller, handle this. I need to go. Rest assured, if the AMC appears on our caller ID again -- even if we don't answer the call -- you will hear from our attorney... and she's my wife, so she works for free. Goodbye. [click]

I get no repeat callers.

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[midimastah]

After working at a polling company during my summers breaks at school, I can say reading this reminds me of why I have such a low opinion of the general public.

I demur the assertion that this kind of behaviour is polite. While some will give in to this kind of a respondent, other callers will laugh at this kind of behaviour because it is really rather rude, and then have the computer call them back immediately to bug them. Rude behaviour demands a response in their eyes. It's not like the company really cares, because they were calling from an anonymous number and giving a fake name, so there was no real way for the person to find out who was doing the survey unless an employee majorly messes up.

Market research is a CRAPPY job, and many people forget that there are actually people on the other end trying to make a living, sometimes even in your own country. Most people at the call center I worked at were senior citizens trying to make ends meet. Most people did not "mess with" people on the other end and do things like that mentioned above.

Very few people were actually that rude, and in fact many were polite enough to hear me out, and politely decline to participate in the survey I was conducting. I never did stuff like the people mentioned above, and in fact I did not push people to do the surveys at all. Either they want to or not; there are plenty of people out there on the randomly-generated list who actually like to do surveys.

Telemarketers have made it difficult for pollers. There are rude people doing polls too, but it is not surprising considering how most people treat them.

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[GuiDisabled]

This is exactly how to handle the few calls that slip through. The US national do not call list works and the individual state do not call lists work. I am on both. They cut my calls drastically. When I do receive calls I follow this script nearly to the T. I add that I will be contacting my state legal offices as well as federal. I don't get any repeat calls.

Start talking about the law or even just sound knowledgeable and they don't want to talk to you. They want easy sales - don't be an easy sale. A hang-up, air-horn, being rude, etc.. simply don't work. Your number will stay in their database and some other "phone-cube nube" will call you, in a week, month, sometime. Take the time to talk to them and make them remove your number.

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[tmortn]

And you are completely missing the point as well. Yes rude is rude. However I think we have the right to choose to not be bothered in our homes. Poll or No Poll. And by the time you have offered us a chance to decline you have already disturbed us. If you think that is a Catch 22 (ie the poll has to be done somehow) it is not. There are other avenues for polling. Even if you create an effective do not call flag that allows you to only contact those willing to accept random calls then you have created a poisoned polling well because those that remain no longer represent a true cross section and no matter how random your selection of those that remain you will most likely get biased results. The fact you could contact 99% of the population via phone is what gives phone polling its power. Once you cut into that your margian of error goes up significantly and with large percentages of people choosing to be unreachable by that means it rapidly becomes useless information in any context other than that which is relevent to those that choose to remain on the list.

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[spywhere]

My original comment said nothing about polls, but I treat pollers the same as telemarketers: they have made my phone ring, and interrupted whatever I was doing, without my consent. F*** them. Political pollers don't call here anymore: during the 2004 elections, I spoke to many of them, and "convinced" them all not to call me.
Charities get the same treatment, no matter how worthy the cause: I explain that my legal action will cost much more than they could hope to collect from ten phone calls.

Market research is a CRAPPY job...
I hope people like me make it even crappier. Maybe people like you will choose jobs that don't disturb innocent people and invade their privacy in their homes. (I hear Wal-Mart is hiring).
So-called "market research" is a scam: the company conducting it sells the results.
This is worse than telemarketing, because the company exploits a loophole in the telemarketing law to get something from me for free (my opinion) to sell at a profit.
The "market research" companies are the ones that protest the loudest when I demand not to be called again. I have gone so far as to track them down on the Internet and Email their corporate officers, warning of legal actions against the company and their persons if I am ever called again... I have several replies on file guaranteeing that I won't be called.

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[Buran]

Excuse me, but who was rude to begin with and set the tone of the interaction? Why, the jerk who bothers the recipient by barging in uninvited! Be rude to me, I return the favor. Want me to be nice to you? Be nice to me by NOT BOTHERING ME!

Re:Too many exceptions in the US

[midimastah]

I'm afraid you missed my point, which is that there are people on the other end of the telephone. More often than not, where I worked the majority of people came from the lower socio-economic levels of society. There will always be people willing to work as a caller because it is certainly better than Wal-Mart, although still crappy. As for myself, the job was convenient, and could at times be very interesting. Some people like to do polls, believe it or not, finding them to be interesting and informative (shock!). But I'm afraid many choose jobs like that because they are simply not skilled enough to find other jobs, or there simply aren't other jobs avaliable.

It seems that you regard people who work at call centers with nothing but contempt, judging by your comment that you hope to increase the crappiness factor of their jobs. Treat people with some dignity and respect, why don't you. Even telemarketers deserve to be treated with a shred of decency. I do sympathize with the fact that you don't want to be bothered, but that doesn't mean that you should take out your anger on the little guy-something I witness all too often in the forms of rude customers at convenience stores, e.c.t.

Best way to dissuade telemarketting types

[tod_miller]

Do you install an automatic line listener to play random audio to them when they stop talking?

Do you tell them you like the sound of their voice, breathe heavily and fap fap fap fap fap?

Heck if it *is* a sexy female voice, say in a husky, tense voice "Tell me about how much I can *ugh* SaaaAve on calls again... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *breathing*"

You think with tactics like this they may have their *own* internal do not call list?

please type the word in this image: blasters
random letters - if you are visually impaired, please email us at pater@slashdot.org

Toll-Free #s on Caller ID == Telemarketer Scum

[Ron Bennett]

Most of the telemarketing calls I get these days showup as toll-free numbers on Caller ID...

Some are probably spoofed, but toll-free numbers make sense in that telemarketers could more easily entice people to call back, but not sure if that's really the reason or something else? -probably a combination of reasons?...

Anyways, a screening method that works like a charm if I choose to pick up the phone, which is rarely, and I see a toll-free number or other goofy number on Caller ID ...

I'll pickup the receiver and say nothing - if complete silence, which is nearly always the case, then it's a near sure bet it's a telemarketer ... sometimes, if really annoyed, as in I'm expecting an important call or whatever, I won't even wait to listen - I'll just pickup and hangup the receiver immediately.

It's been my experience that telemarketers don't call back right away after a hangup ... but a legitimate, non-telemarketer caller likely will assume the hangup was due to a faulty circuit and will promptly call back right away.

In regards to the do not call list here in the States ... it's helped a bit, but overall leaves a lot to be desired - the numerous loopholes don't help ... charities, politicians, surveys, business "relationships", telecommunication companies (partial loophole), etc.

Many Americans use one or more of the following tactics to reduce telemarketing calls...

* Sign up their phone number(s) on DNC list

* Screen all calls using answering machine / voicemail

* Switch from land-line to cellphone (this won't work for much longer as more telemarketers just call cells with no regard to the law, which lacks definition and more importantly seems to lack tough penalities / lack of enforcement)

* Get rid of phone service entirely and use VOIP, etc along with pre-paid phone cards

Ron Bennett

They know it won't work

[DavidHOzAu]

From the article:

Senator Coonan said it was important the new laws balance the interests of the public with those of the telemarketing industry, which employs 700,000 people.

But she said the changes are unlikely to lead to mass job losses.
So the register is going to be so incredibly successful that the telemarketers probably won't lose their jobs. Right. Now I wonder what activity they are going to fill in their time with... ring up and give stuff away for free? Set their caller id to your next door neighbour ala WAP Access Points?

Wait... with 700,000 telemarketers, my neighbour probably *is* a telemarketer! No wonder John Williamson wrote that song "This is Australia Calling", and why Telstra likes to use it in all their ads. That's it. I'll never answer the phone ever again without making doubly sure that my tinfoil hat is attached and in the blocking position before picking up the phone.

USA Experience

[salesgeek]

I was doing CRM systems when many US states passed do not call lists. The result was impressive in two ways:

* The calls at home absolutely stopped after the lists went into effect.

* You could stop an telemarketer cold with one sentence: I'm on the do not call list.

* Call centers had to re-invent their business to focus on inbound calls.

* Companies had to learn that marketing is the stuff that makes the company phone ring.

* Internet advertising asploded.

Re:USA Experience

[forgotmyotheraccount]

The result was impressive in two ways:

I'm more impressed with the number of ways 2 becomes 5!

On a more serious note, I worked (until recently) for an Australian bank in CRM. Two separate projects I was managing were to integrate outbound telemarketing with the analytical marketing system. The other to cross match customer data with publicly available telephone data to verify details of existing customers and flag potential lost customers. Due to the number of possible legal risks relating to outound calling from revisions to or proposed legislation at the time ie DNC list, Privacy Act review, ACA usage of public telephone database (IPND) (all running concurrently), I recommended that the project I was running to verify customer data be put on hold until the legislative environment was more certain.

Neither did they go ahead with plans to expand to non customer outbound telemarketing. At the time I was there at least.

So the legislation will quite possibly have some effect. Maybe not to a few rogue telemarketers prepared to run the risk. But certainly some businesses will take notice.

Generally speaking the various pieces of legislation and the change in the climate re privacy are a disincentive to invest in the capability at the moment- for some organisations concerned with reputation at least. Yes the irony of a bank and concern for reputation!

As you suggest from your experience recommendations were made to be more precise in analytical marketing efforts and compliance with the substantial legislation re contacting customers(particularly in financial services) and to make better use of the inbound telemarketing channel ie when the phone is ringing

Hey, why not give the customer what they want when they've actually gone to the effort to call and tell the company anyway.

On another note the paper is a proposal at the moment. You can be sure there will be some serious lobbying from the industry in the next month or so.

Re:USA Experience

[salesgeek]

On another note the paper is a proposal at the moment. You can be sure there will be some serious lobbying from the industry in the next month or so.

If telemarketers are so well loved in Austrailia as they are in the US, the lobyists will have a very hard time watering the bill down :)

...likely to be exempted.

[NailedSaviour]

"Market research companies, pollsters, charities and religious organisations are likely to be exempted."

Which happen to be the top 4 categories that I'd like to not hear another word from.

how to avoid *all* telemarketers

[cohomology]

For the past 10 years, I've gotten *at most* two telemarketing calls per year. How did I do it? I once made a "credible threat to sue" AT&T Wireless. There's an industry wide list of people like me, and they don't call us.

I learned the technique from a colleague familiar with the industry. First, know your legal rights. Second, keep a hand-written log of occasions when you have asked to be added to the no-call list of a telemarketing firm. Be careful to have them spell out the name of the firm and the city they operate out of. Then wait for them to make a mistake. If they call you again, after the six month grace period the law allows them to update their paperwork, you've got it made.

Don't shout or be nasty; just read them the log and indicate that you are aware of your legal rights and are interested in collecting the statutory damages. They asked me to "please call this special number to be removed ... " but I just said that I wasn't going to lift a finger to help them. Remember, if it went to court, the case would be decided on "the preponderance of the evidence," and a corporation has no choice but to pay for legal council at trial - they can't represent themselves. Everything is on your side, so they just add you to the list.

Enjoy.

Re:how to avoid *all* telemarketers

[Quiet_Desperation]

Of course I got the exact same effect by just using the Do Not Call list, so there's a question of efficiency of methodology here. ;-) And no lawyers made any money my way.

Re:how to avoid *all* telemarketers

[bleckywelcky]

I actually almost followed through with that threat. My first year in college, there was this company that was assembling a registry of alumni for my high school. They had an automated system call you up and leave a phone number for you to call them back, and then hand over all your information so they could include it in a registry that they sell (to alumni) and make a profit on. Well, for some reason they decided that they best way to get us to call them back was to call 2x a day every day for 2 months straight. And the calls were always on schedule, one around 8:15 am every day (extremely fucking annoying on the weekends when I'm trying to sleep in), and one around 6:00 pm every day (right in the middle of dinner, lovely). About 0.5 months into the whole deal, my dad called (I was commuting from home at the time) and told them to stop. Didn't work. About 1 month into the whole deal, I called and told them to stop. Didn't work. At 1.5 months into the deal I did my research and contacted the executives of the company (not the stupid service line we contacted before) and threatened to sue them under the do-not-call legislation (not the registry, this was before then). They told me they would handle it personally and that I would be taken off the list immediately. Took them another 2 weeks to fully stop calling us. In the mean time they offered us copies of their "deluxe edition registries" for free as compensation ... as if we really gave a shit about their product at this point. I subsequently wrote letters to the state attorney general to investigate them, with the goal that they would collect penal damages (something like $500 per call I think). I had documented the exact dates and times of about 50 calls, and provided for sworn testimonies by my other family members who had answered the calls. I got the company riled up enough to get their lawyers to send back an 8 page document explaining why they are not responsible for damages since they "were not selling a service" in their calls, and that they offered us substantial compensation - the deluxe registries - they even said something like "an $80 value for free". At that point I flirted with the idea of taking them to small claims court which has a limit of $5000 or so on the cases, but I kind of lost interest. Besides, technically they might have had me since they did not try to sell the registries in their phone call, but when you called them back to give up your info I'm sure they do hock their registries. Would have been interesting to have gone the whole way though. They probably would have never paid, then I could've tried tracking down some of their assets and get a sheriff to cease them for me. Now that would have been hilarious.

Re:how to avoid *all* telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite a few differences in the law, I find this method quite effective myself. I've employed this strategy at my business with Fax Solicitation and reduced it to less than once a month from three a day.

Where English is a foreign language

[andersh]

We've had this kind of register for some time now here in Norway and the same rules apply i.e. telemarketers can't call you unless there is a previous relationship. It works great if you just remember to register everyone in your household of legal age. My existing "relationships" have not been abused and they're not likely to be. The law gives the consumer agency semi-effective means of punishing any offenders (fines/jail time). It's really only the very small, less serious companies that break the law - and they're not easily persuaded to stop.

The great thing about living in a small country is that you do NOT get bothered by foreign telemarketing companies because they can't break through the language barrier! Now the truth is that most Norwegians speak english quite well - more than enough to understand telemarketing calls - but thank God the telemarketers don't know that :) On the other hand most people would probably not accept deals offered in a foreign language anyway. Although recently there was this Florida-based American telemarketing company scamming people with offers of holidays to the Caribbean if you wouldn't mind handing over your Visa account number... Yes, several people fell for it.

Another great thing about the language barrier is that when a recent phishing scam appeared aimed at customers of a large norwegian bank - most people laughed it off since the e-mail was written in english... And there are no translation services on the net for the language that will work properly, hehe.

In the UK all I get is

[RotateLeftByte]

American shysters trying to tell me I have won a fully expensed holiday in Florida.

I signed up to the UK version which operates 24/7 unlike the Aussie one. I did get some calls but I threatened to report them to OFCOM (Telecommunications Regulator). The calls soon stopped.
And no, my number is not unlisted.
I get all my friends to sign up to this service. It does work.

Seriously now...

[RicardoStaudt]

Did they ever considered doing a DO call list so you telemarking companies can only call people that actually WANT to receive those calls? What makes they think that people want to receive those calls by default?

Doomed to fail because of useless timeframe.

[iphitus]

I'm an Australian.

I get plenty of unsolicited phone calls. Unfortunately most of them occur around dinner time between 5-8pm on a weekday.

This ban only comes into effect at 8pm, thus, the huge range of annoying calls - which have been rising over the years - will still be calling, nearly every night, as my family and I sit to eat.

A weak attempt to fix an annoying problem.

Good news for telemarketing firms

[Centurix]

OK, I'm a number cruncher for a medium size telemarketing firm in Brisbane. This is actually very good news for the telemarketing industry as a whole because it enables us to reduce the 'dead call' rate for our existing list. We purchase list information for the whole of Australia, over 20 million numbers, including mobile phone numbers and faxes. It costs us over $10,000 a month to use this list from our providers, it is a small cost compared to our takings each month from just selling things over the phone.

We have to factor a dead call rate into our lists, and from that we can calculate fairly accurately how many sales we'll make for each area we target. If we can remove the people who will not buy from us off our list it means we save the flagfall for a phone call and also the postage for our mailouts. If you use a standard postage and ff cost per person it comes in at around 70 cents. When you mail out to 8,000 people a day it adds up very quickly. Plus you have to cost in hourly rate for a telemarketer and mailroom person.

Right now, we have an internal do not call list which we value very highly. If we lost that list we would waste thousands every week on phone calls alone.

One thing we do get is a discount from our list providers when we feed information back to them every month. We send back address changes, primary contact number chages, head of household, primary cheque signer and rough income per household. Presently they do not request do not contacts from their list consumers, I would imagine when we receive the list from the ADMA we'll start feeding them back again.

Re:Good news for telemarketing firms

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you go and get a _real_ job!!!

Re:Good news for telemarketing firms

[jlowe]

The problem with your idea that it the DNC will be good for business is that there are plenty of people who have difficulty saying "no" on the phone. These are the easy sells, the people who can be easily persuaded to try your credit card, your vacation, or whatever.

Those will be the first in line to sign up.

Australian Telemarketing call...?

[tgoodmannz]

Nyeaaah Gudday Ah'm Bazza cullin' frum Ace Bar-be-que repairs

we wuz jus' doin' a c- cour- courtie- a friendly telephone cull to yooz' guys areas tudday ta see if ya Barbie needz cleanin'

We duz all kindza Barbies - Gas wuns, Porties, built-ins. If ya Sheilas' just left ya it wud be the prefect toime, juz before Chrizmus...

We nose ya been fullin' pretty shoite latelie, wot wiv luzing the Ashes an' all so wut beetter thun a noice cleen Barbie ta chuck sum snagz on..

Yooz say wut? Yooz vegenaaareens? Nurries... Bye!

[disclaimer Kath & Kim fan]

almost useless

[pbjones]

We get 5-10 calls a week from the people who will be exempt, so I'll still get the same calls. This is from the same Govt that promised there would NEVER be a GST. From a Prime Minister who said that he would retire 2 years ago. We are get very good at just hanging up the phone.

you guys r missing the point

[muphin]

easy solution Hello would u like to hear about ... [hang up] ** although we like to be polite in this society they wont be, all they want to do is keep you on the line, either never hang up, and leave the phone off the hook, or as soon as you think its a telemarketer, hang up.. its as good as a spam box. sign up for the do-not-call register and its all good, its just the same as spam, we cant get rid of it so do the next best thing, ignore it... no one gives them responses... then they will try somone else .. i'm sure there are lists for the call centres to ignore for specific reasons..

Re:you guys r missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think you might have missed the point. People don't want to have to ignore it, they don't want it there in the first place. Not fighting back is accepting it, and people don't want to accept it.

There are a couple of things I'm thinking of doing. First, I want to get a 1900 number. That way I'll be able to charge like 5 a minute, then I'll talk to anyone for as long as they want.

Second, I always say "I'm working at the moment, so if you want me to listen I'm gong to have to charge you" they don't want to talk to me for some reason after than, although my wife got a billing address out of one dude. :)

US list works great!

[Anonymous Coward]

I went from an average of 3 calls per day to 6 calls PER YEAR since I signed up for the do-not-call list. I see a lot of people complaining about the ineffectiveness of the US do-not-call list on slashdot, but in my experience it's been an incredible success.
  One sure confirmation of how well the do-not-call list works is that telemarketers are fighting to change it. If the list were ineffective, then telemarketers would love it, they would not be trying to change it.

Ahhh, a $220,000 fine

[chrism238]

I'm an Australian, and just love how this fine is $220,000 - that's actually $200,000 plus our 10% Goods and Services Tax (GST). A fine is clearly not "goods", so collecting a fine must be a "service"! Maybe it's a "fine service"?

I dont know about the US

[miasmic]

But we have had this system for years in the UK and it works flawlessly. Once on the list you DO NOT recieve unsolicited calls, not even from places you've bought things from or have used in the past. Three years on the list and one telemarketing call of any description.

Re:As an American I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

I am on the American list and I jumped onto it ~3 months ago. Before that I was getting 2 to 4 telemarketing calls a day. And yes, I would ask to be placed on their no-call list. Before that I noticed an increase of calls over time. Most of the calls where automated and only wanted to leave a message on my answering machine. Now-- no more machine spam *smiles*

Maybe it is was related to where I live (2nd largest city in the State and right on the boarder to another state) or my phone company (Verizon).

Very imporant thing I have noticed, since being on the list. No more fax machines calling me 1am to 2am in the morning or in the middle of the day. It's not easy to tell these beasts to stop calling with no info on the caller-id and I do not have a fax machine to decode the gibberish.

you can send everybody to voicemail

[weierstrass]

but you still have to check your inbox. there's going to be something important in there (otherwise, why have a phone number?) and deleting everything else is going to be much slower than with email.

Re:you can send everybody to voicemail

[ankarbass]

No, it's pretty easy really, all voice mails go to an email. So a quick listen tells me right away who they are without listening to the entire message. Caller id is in the subject line and there's far less of it than there is of spam.

Re:As a Canadian I can honestly say

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to me that it should be the other way around...businesses should not be allowed to call at all, unless you have OPTED IN to be receive marketing calls, etc.

Just another way that demonstrates that governments are in the pockets of the corporations. Yep, make a law that says any business can call you for any reason at any time, unless YOU take the time, effort, etc. to OPT OUT. I'm getting rid of my phone.

This will do diddly squat!

[aztec1430]

> 8pm on weekdays and 5pm on weekends.

Riiight...
So the annoying calls that I get right at dinner time, or right at my 18month olds bedtime (7.30pm) will stop... oh.. wait... :(

It's supposed to be a DO NOT CALL list - not a DO NOT CALL EXCEPT BETWEEN THESE HOURS list...

And how do we follow up when the indian accented caller won't give his name (or I can't understand it anyway), and the Caller ID is blank?

Re:This will do diddly squat!

[Tashmire]

"And how do we follow up when the indian accented caller won't give his name (or I can't understand it anyway), and the Caller ID is blank?" -- Tell your wife to stop bumping uglies with Apu.

Problem with that approach

[sczimme]

In the UK, as other poster have nebtioned we have the TPS - Telephone Preference Service.

However, problems arise when some employees forget to put cover sheets on their TPS reports.

:-)

700 000 employees

[tomw576]

It says there are 700 000 people employed by the telemarketing industry. We have about 20 million people in Australia, that's around one in 30 people... No wonder I get so many calls.

One Aussies Current Tactic

[bikam0wz]

In the last few months the number of calls had been steadily increasing, polite request and angry threats seemed to make no difference. Now these calls go something like this...

**ring ring**

Hello, this is Bill from [insert company here]
Gday Bill
I'm calling today to offer you [insert crap here]
Wow Bill, that sounds great. Can you tell me more?
Well it is a great deal [bla bla bla]
Actually, the wife and I were discussing something very similar just yesterday - oh, can you hold on for a sec, I just have another call coming in on my mobile thats really important
Yes, sure

Bill is put on hold. I go make myself a coffee. If I'm feeling nice I will check to see if Bill is still there after about 7 minutes (they have usually hung up by then), but if I'm in a bad mood I will check back with him every two minutes, just to tell him that I won't be much longer.

Sure, you may have to pull this stunt a few times for each call center, but you eventually make it onto their internal do not call list.

A Tale of Two Households (Yes, It Works)

[purduephotog]

You want to know how effective the Anti-Telemarketing has been?

My household: No phone calls EXCEPT for charities (Police, fire dept, etc). No paper mail except for police, barnard fire dept ball, very rarely a couple of realtors (and those I call up immediately and chew out for sending me stuff).

My father-in-law's: Phone calls on Friday night at dinner for the last 4 weeks that I've been there, random calls during the day, etc. While he's more established than I am in terms of having lived at that house, he still refuses to sign up his numbers to be blocked. He also refuses to say the magic words "Place me on your restricted do-not-contact list".

So, does it work? Yes.

I've actually used that particular law to file complaints against skip-tracers that have harassed me for someone else's debts. In the most recent case judgement was granted for me against them seeking relief from continued and orchestrated harassment. These last two months the phone has been entirely quiet.

Ban telemarketing under the new anti-terror laws

[mallie_mcg]

It's about the only way I'd accept those bullshit laws that they are trying to pass.

I mean seriously, telemarketing has no place when I want something I perform research. The only thing that telemarketers are any good for is to vent frustrations at by trying to make them more miserable, lately I've been getting too much therapy that it is having the reverse effect.

The do not call list is as good as confirming an active number to these scum, I for one won't be using it.

DNC is Amazing

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to get one to three calls a day after work. after registering for Do Not Call, I get about on call per month. This is soooo much better.
-vettemph

We've had the same sort of thing in the UK

[dapprman]

We've had the same sort of thing in the UK now for about 7 or 8 years, however it does not stop all those annoying automated spam calls from the US.

It is very effective in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

The US Do Not Call List has been very effective. There are a few ways of trying to get around it, but the number of unwanted calls has drastically decreased.

Success! Telemarketing calls/yr reduced to zero!

[Murf In Wyoming]

I put all my phone numbers on the "Do Not Call Registry" in the US, and have experienced a great reduction in the number of telemarketing calls, but, the Do Not Call registry does not apply to Charitable institutions, and a few others, and the volume of these calls has grown exponentially over the months... it seems the charities sell each other their call lists, and if you give anything to one, soon you will have them ALL calling at regular intervals.

I've been playing with Asterisk for a couple of years now. I've implemented every privacy option in my dialplan, and have finished the coding of the call filtering option, and had it incorporated into the 2.x releases.

First the 3-tone is played (the da-dee-doo that precedes "The number you have called is no longer in service!", if no CallerID is present.

Next, if no CallerID is present, and the autodialer has not hung up, the calling party is forced to supply a phone number, or the call is terminated, and if they are stupid, and give my number instead of theirs, the call is "terminated with prejudice".

Then, they get a menu, where they must choose the person with which they would like to converse. They get music on hold, and if no answer, they are thrown into voicemail.

One of the first menu options they are presented with is a number to press if they are telemarketers. This option runs them into what I titled the "Telemarketer Torture Script". (See http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Telemarkete r+Torture)

I have complete CDR logs of the incoming and outgoing calls, and have totalled up how many calls and from what sources, and at what stage each call was terminated.

And I found that each measure I implemented removed a fairly small percentage of the callers, with the total result that I have not received any telemarketing calls or requests for donations in almost two years now.

The single most effective measure is the menu prompts. It defeats autodialers, which aren't programmed to answer prompts. It somehow defeats all the rest of the live callers, who don't seem to have the courage to ignore the telemarketing option, and choose a person. Only once has a charity ever been brave enough to actually select my extension, and in that case, all they did was thank me for past contributions, and hung up.

My conclusion is, that if you truly want to eliminate unsolicited calls from your business/home, you need to implement a simple IVR menu system.

A more detailed explanation of the privacy measures are outlined in http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-cvs/200 5-July/006992.html

And, some details of my research results are in: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2 004-September/062571.html

Best of luck!

One Problem

[leabre]

the biggest problem is the proliferation of voice recorded calls that require you to call a number to be removed from their call list. I refuse to return a call to be remove, mostly out of fear of not knowing whether I'll get a hidden charge for the phone call. The downside is that after 9 months of refusing to pick up the phone or reply, every day, 7 days a week, I still get the same stupid message. There are very many recorded calls that dial me, and there's no human on the other side to tell them to put you on the DNC list or whatever.

Thanks,
Leabre

Re:Telemarketers CAN be stopped

[Anonymous Coward]

You CAN stop these guys. I was bombarded with calls from India selling fixed-line phone services. One made the mistake of saying that they were reselling OPTUS calls. So I rang Optus and had them blacklist me. They said if I had any more calls to ring them and they would deal with the resellers. "Sorry Rajee, from now on you'll have to sell someone else's calls". I've had no calls since. I'm sure the Commonwealth Bank would oblige also, if you were prepared to wait 30 minutes to talk to someone.

The easy way

[jasgo]

Everyone complains about Telemarketing calls. Thing is, my home gets exactly zero. Ever.

Why? We've got an unlisted phone number. By paying Telstra whatever it is for the privilege of not having our number in the phone book (go figure) we don't appear in any telemarketers databases, so no annoying phone calls.

Of course we still get calls at work. We've just set up a special asterisk extension which plays some lovely "hold music" from artists such as Hanson until they hang up. "Can you hold please? I'll just put you on to the person who handles purchasing."

Oddly

[Now.Imperfect]

We've been on the American list for a while now... like.. since it was put out =P. it works well

. Though, interestingly lately we've been getting an odd hang-up sort of call from Quebec.... o.0

On a List

[Anonymous Coward]

My big problem with this is that you end up on a searchable list that all the telemarketers have to have.

My solution was simple and would have worked. It would never get passed though. It is my honest beleif that they should have to notify who they are and the type of call it is via caller id. Call types must conform to a standard.

So if I get telemarketting call from AT&T Maybe the stadard is to send "TM:" So my caller ID would read, "TM: AT&T" So I know it's a telemarketting call from AT&T and I can answer if I want to.

The beauty of this is that people would start selling phones that block these calls and my name isn't on a LIST. Which to me is a huge privacy issue.

US results

[romka1]

A telephone survey of people on the US do not call list revealed that those people still get unwated telephone calls from telemarketers and phone surveys

Effectiveness

[FatBear]

From my perspective it has been very effective in the US. We went from getting numerous calls each day to getting less than half a dozen a year. But our do not call list is more rigorous. It does not set allowable times of day or anything. Marketeers are simply not allowed to call any number on the list. Exceptions are allowed for non-profits and political organizations, but they apparently don't do much telemarketing.

All these legislations miss the point ....

[Anonymous Coward]

The issue is much simpler:

I pay 100% of the cost of my telephone service. Therefore I have 100% of the right to dictate who can make use of it either incoming or outgoing.

No one, not *anyone* has any right to call me against my wishes. I don't need or want legislators to determine what exceptions to my wishes *they* shall allow.

Of course, if the telemarketing industry wants to pick up the tab for my phone service ....

The changing tactics...

[Iron Chef Unix]

I am not on the do not call list as I just got a new phone number, but I have noticed soemthing about the marketing calls I do recieve.

1) They are at earlier and later hours than normal.
2) The telemarketer usually has a foreign accent now.
3) They call back daily.
4) They are trying to dupe me a lot more.

One night, I had already got one call and was tired of being polite, so when I got another, I simply hung up after a couple of seconds. 10 minutes later, the same lady called back. I hung up once again, and 30 minutes later at 10:30 PM (!) another woman with the same pitch called again. I told her that they had already called 2 times and I wanted to be put on their no call list. Instead of saying "OK", she said, "so, you are not interested?". No! Obviously not. Both of these women had foreign accents, so I am assuming that companies are outsourcing telemarketing a lot more.

Does this explain the late and early calls? I also got one at 8 AM on Saturday morning, and have recieved some on Sunday morning (didn't Sunday used to be taboo?).

Also, are companies outsourcing to try and skirt by legal ramifications? "Well, we just hired company X in country Y, and we had no knowledge that they were breaking the law."

Also, I usually have 1-2 messages on my answering machine every day that says something like "Hi... this is Karren from xyz mortgage group calling back about your request for mortgage information. I found some great numbers for you, so just give me a call back..." Is this not illegal? I never called them, but they are trying to make me think that I did. Argggh.

Just venting...

It'll be good for my Dad

[karearea]

I've seen him go ballistic at a telemarketer.

I was over in OZ visiting, we thought we'd have a quiet night in watching a video - getting to a crucial scene and the phone rings, fumble with the remote, rush to the phone (stepmother was off at a duatholon event or something) .... well, just as well he is quite fit - I though he was gonna burst a blood vessel or have a heart attack.

It took a good 15 minutes for him to calm down afterwards. But boy oh boy, I learnt some new words that night!!

What's this "finally" crap?

[RodgerDodger]

Australia has had a do-not-call register for years; I've been on it since 1997, and have had exactly _one_ telemarketer call, which had actually turned out to be a wrong number.

The difference here is that it is going from an industry-sponsored organisation to a federally mandated one.

Nice, but it is sort of redundant

[Trapped Database Adm]

Nice idea, however it is sorta redundant in Aus. Most of the 'Australian' telemarketers are rung out of either calcutta or mumbai in india. Hence they have NO idea of legal requirements in Aus, also existing National Privacy Principles (NPP) at http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/npps01.html > have no effect outside Aus borders. This is probably also similar to US law, however I'm a bit fuzzier there. I know this as ironically enough I'm a database admin for an Australian university alumni & development (read: fundraising) office. However, whilst we can't touch the telemarketers, we can target their clients. Earlier this year, we had a spate of nerfherders ringing us for all sorts of things from market surveys to 'please change your home loan to us at 25%pa interest' (no kidding). So I started asking them questions similar to another post in this thread - their name, organisation, which organisation that they are calling on behalf of, who their client contact person is etc. Sometimes the more intelligent callers hang up at this point. If they are still on the line, then I start asking them how they got this number, or how they got the list that my number was on. Even though I am in the whitepages, this usually makes them pause. Then I casually mention to them that this phone call breaches several specific clauses of the NPP, and that they are potentially causing their clients to be fined up to around $100K per offence. That 'per offence' usually gets them. They apologise profusely and hang up. After about a month of this, we've stopped getting any calls, hence we seem to have been blacklisted. Darn shame that. Another useful trick is whenever you buy something refuse to provide any details for local 'mailing lists' - virtually every store these days either wants a mailing address / phone number or at least a postcode. This is for both list building and basic demographics - the latter is used for bulk junk mail drops (threshold is usually 100 instances of a particular postcode) and the lists ARE sold to marketers. cheers R.

Opt-in

[i8puppies]

Telemarketing is a nuisance.
An opt-in list would be much better. If you want to be called, sign up.

Think about how inefficient opt-out lists are for dealing with nuisances.
"Opt out of getting spam email."
"Opt out of having your computer infested with spyware."
"Opt out of being lit on fire."

A single opt-in list would be enough.
Yknow why?
Cause it would be empty.

What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

As an Australian, I really can't see the point in this.

The amount of telemarketing calls I've received over the past ten years is perhaps five. And these are usually from local charities.

Three reasons why there's no point to this legislation:

1) It's not a major problem. I don't know anyone who's ever complained about the number of calls they've received, or who regularly gets more than about one a year.

2) Local calls in Australia cost money. The cost factor alone means that most industries don't consider cold-calling to have an effective ROI.

3) Legislation introduced by the current party in office is usually full of holes which allow the party itself and its major contributors (primarily the industries or companies the legislation would otherwise inconvenience) to blithely continue annoying the crap out of people as much as they like. See the recent antispam laws for examples.

Hooray

[Diablo1399]

I'm so sick of Indian bloody telemarketers calling. I just hang up on them straight away now. >_

Useless

[Davidge]

From experience we rarely get telemarketer calls after 8pm on weeknights, but we get plenty between 6 and 7pm weeknights.

Why make the weekends 5pm but not the weeknights, actually, why specify a time at all, I for one don't want to receive ANY telemarketer calls regardless of the time of day.

Yet another case of well meaning legislation caving to the interests of business.

The Bill just died anyway.

[TapeCutter]

It's going nowhere.