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Internet Plays A Large Role For U.S. Citizens

Homework Help writes "The latest U.S. Census Bureau report suggests that the Internet has become an integral part of the American lifestyle and economy." From the article: "It shows 40 percent of U.S. adults used the Web to obtain news, weather or sports information, a dramatic increase from the 7 percent who surfed in 1997, when the bureau conducted a similar study. The report also found that nearly half of adults, 47 percent, used the Internet to find information on products or services. About one-third reported purchasing a product or service online, compared with only 2 percent who did so in 1997."

170 comments

  1. More revelations coming next week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    TV also popular.
    Radio popular, but not as popular as it was in the 1930s.
    NFL football quite popular as a spectator sport.

    1. Re:More revelations coming next week... by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      Incessant griping popular among AC's on Slashdot...

    2. Re:More revelations coming next week... by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Wow, Ric Romero posted to Slashdot!

    3. Re:More revelations coming next week... by Mayhem178 · · Score: 0

      [slashdot.org]

      Obviously this is why there hasn't been a study since 1997. It took them this long to filter through the BS.

      --

      "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

    4. Re:More revelations coming next week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may not believe this, but I'm in the internet right now!

    5. Re:More revelations coming next week... by Edzor · · Score: 1

      he does have one fine mustache, doesn't he.

  2. WTF? by suso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell? The last time they conducted a simular study was 1997? 96-97 was when the Internet really started to take off. How can they expect to show any kind of useful information if they don't do a study like that every year or every other year. Its like saying that in 1905 only 7% of people used cars and now in 2005 99% of people use them, so cars play a big role in people's lives.

    I thought our government was gathering more useful statistics, but I guess not.

    1. Re:WTF? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Why not? If that time was when businesses began the land rush to the web and at the same time was when people began realizing the power of being able to purchase online, why not start there?

      The U.S. census is only done every 10 years yet it shows vital statistics and patterns.

      I realize you were hoping for a once a year survey but all that would have shown is the gradual climb in user statistics. A ten year survey is fine for this purpose.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    2. Re:WTF? by eobanb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the US Census, what did you expect? I concede that a study like this isn't really that interesting, but it's still nice to have official numbers instead of just random speculation. If an ISP conducted this study, they might be more able to do it yearly, but would their numbers be as trustworthy as the US Census, which has no commercial motivations for saying the Internet now plays a large role in citizens' lives?

      And to digress slightly from the topic, I would bet in 1905, far fewer than 7% of people used cars. Same with your 2005 99% figure. I'd expect it's only about 70%. The same reason for that is the same reason only 40-some percent of Americans use the Internet; they're elderly, or very young, but most of all, many of them are just too poor.

      --

      Take off every sig. For great justice.

    3. Re:WTF? by eobanb · · Score: 1

      Oh, and on that same note, I think a follow-up study that correlated internet usage with both age and income level would be far more interesting. The US Census already has that data, after all!

      --

      Take off every sig. For great justice.

    4. Re:WTF? by suso · · Score: 1

      And to digress slightly from the topic, I would bet in 1905, far fewer than 7% of people used cars. Same with your 2005 99% figure. I'd expect it's only about 70%. The same reason for that is the same reason only 40-some percent of Americans use the Internet; they're elderly, or very young, but most of all, many of them are just too poor.

      It will be a great day when I can make a comment on slashdot without one person dissecting information in it.

      Learn to let things go.

    5. Re:WTF? by bcattwoo · · Score: 1
      From TFA, the information released was actually from data collected in 2003, so the interval was more like six years. The information is likely of even less "use" since things have probably changed a bit even since then.

      Not sure the information is all that useful to the public in general anyway other than as an interesting tidbit. If XYZ company wants to get useful data to develop an online strategy they can pay for their own study.

    6. Re:WTF? by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

      It will be a great day when I can make a comment on slashdot without one person dissecting information in it.

      Yeah, don't hold your breath- that day is never gonna come. The greater day (and certainly more plausible one) will be the day you accept that people will dissect whatever you post on slashdot. Let things go, indeed.

    7. Re:WTF? by RacerZero · · Score: 1
      Not sure the information is all that useful to the public in general anyway other than as an interesting tidbit.
      If only it were just an interesting tidbit. Give it a few days and someone will make a big deal out if it.

      "Not only is Mississippi crapped on by hurricanes, the Bush administration and racism, they also don't have enough internet!"

    8. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Please, let's NOT advocate that government "gather more useful statistics", which necessarily increases the overall cost of government, both in dollars and liberty. The power elite in this country already have many orders of magnitude more power and tax revenue than a fair and ethical government would need to keep the peace.

      Are you aware that the average US citizen pays nearly 50% of his earnings to government through federal, state, and local taxes combined? You already spend half the year working exclusively for the power elite -- do you really want to grant them even MORE power and revenue?

    9. Re:WTF? by SigmoidCurve · · Score: 1

      OMG, you are severely deluded if you think the Census Bureau's budget is responsible for high tax rates.

      --
      Dictionaries are for loosers.
    10. Re:WTF? by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Informative

      I thought our government was gathering more useful statistics, but I guess not.

      http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/compu ter.html

      I really like reading the census data. Sometimes the numbers do not at all meet perception, so I try to calibrate my perception from time to time.

      Also, another excellent data site for raw data is http://www.nationmaster.com/ and another is http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index .html.

      Its like saying that in 1905 only 7% of people used cars and now in 2005 99% of people use them, so cars play a big role in people's lives.

      Yes, I agree. I would assume that almost 100% of the US white collar population use the internet almost daily at home and at work. I would also assume that the deviants from that don't use a computer at home because they use it at work and want to escape from them. Its surprising the number of lower income blue collar people that have home computers and pretty much know how to use them. Its basically a TV alternative for those types.

    11. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off topic but... you are seriously deluded if you don't think that high taxes are a result of adding the cost of many many operations of the government. No single department is individually responsible.

    12. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If every little bit didn't count, then how did it come to be that the US government today dwarfs the US government of only 100 years ago by every concievable measure? The expansion of the US government was achieved little by little, stealing liberty from the people in small steps which go unnoticed by the majority.

      Again, the cost of government must be measured not only in raw dollars, but power over the people. This particular expansion of government may look insignificant compared to the military budget, for example, but the fact is that the little expansions are what sets the precedent, enabling the big expansions. Government profits from oppression, just as they profit from raw tax dollars.

      You didn't think the US empire was achieved overnight, did you? "Tomorrow, my good citizens, we triple your taxes and steal 2/3 of your remaining freedom, in order to upgrade our national defense." Hah!

    13. Re:WTF? by Skater · · Score: 1

      You are seriously deluded if you think the Census Bureau or any other department sets their own budget. Look to Congress and the President for that.

      The departments make requests, Congress slashes it, and then the agency makes does with what it has. Oh, and the agency isn't allowed to cut out work to match the budget - nope, everything STILL has to be done, and done perfectly, lest the media come in and find an error and blow it way out of proportion.

      Does that sound familiar to anyone that works in the private sector?

    14. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50%? Ok, I know taxes are high, but I think very few people pay 50%. I think it is typically in the 30-40% range. Which is still very much a burdon, and if we don't get a new generation of politicians in both Congress and the White House, who are dedicated to fiscal responsibility, someday that number *will* climb to 50%. I'm one of those people whose been rather disappointed with Bush and the Republicans, not so much for the Iraq war, but for the huge increases in spending they're responsible for (and the war is part of that).

      The Republicans were supposed to be the bean-counters. The cold-hearted tightwads who were gonna get the national budget under control. Instead, they are accellerating the rush to higher deficits and higher taxes. Giving away money to the tune of billions of dollars of pork. Truly a dissappointment - what's a fiscal conservative to do? The Democrats at least are truthful that they are going to increase spending - the Republicans are just liars. But either way, spending is increasing. . .

  3. I just IM'd my mom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    And she totally disagrees. She's gonna go post about it on her livejournal, then I'll submit it to Slashdot.

    1. Re:I just IM'd my mom by no_pets · · Score: 0

      I saw your mom on the Internet.

      --
      "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
  4. Comparison by eobanb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd like to see how this compares with other developed countries, especially ones in which broadband penetration is much higher, like in South Korea, Japan, most of Scandinavia, and to a bit less extent, most of Western Europe. If the US has 40%, what nation probably has the highest percentage? Sweden?

    --

    Take off every sig. For great justice.

    1. Re:Comparison by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Easy. Just rate how loud the DB is when jackasses call into the call center screaming bloody murder with rage all pissed off that they cannot get online. Be it PC, or cable modem issue. I mean, you can take someones TV away. But you be DAMNED if they lose internet connection.

      Ya, I say the Internet is very important.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Comparison by Lord+Haha · · Score: 1

      Can't remeber the exact numbers off hand but the most penetrated countries are:

      South Korea, Canada, Sweden, Norway & Japan

      (in that order too I think)

    3. Re:Comparison by Vicsun · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not sure what the percentage is in Sweden, but just south in the little province of Denmark, the internet penetration percentage is around 80%.

    4. Re:Comparison by Rotten168 · · Score: 0

      The US is number 3 or 4 with Canada a little below that.

    5. Re:Comparison by Control+Group · · Score: 4, Funny

      Internet penetration is only 80% in Denmark?

      I can find 100% penetration on the internet without even trying, and I live in puritan America!

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    6. Re:Comparison by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      I mean, you can take someones TV away. But you be DAMNED if they lose internet connection.

      Here in the UK, the TV is on the list of things that debt collectors cannot collect, alongside fridges, heating etc. I wonder how long it will be before computers are added to that list; especially with the personal data on the drive.

    7. Re:Comparison by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Informative
    8. Re:Comparison by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      I really don't lose internet connections anymore. I remember being the 1st on my street to have MediaOne, the cable guy was happy to see someone interested in broadband in my area. Back in those days I would file a downed-network complain every fucking week, the support people knew me by name. TV connections is always very reliable.

    9. Re:Comparison by uacheesehead · · Score: 1

      Interesting, BUT that infomation is 4 years old..

    10. Re:Comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't remeber the exact numbers off hand but the most penetrated countries are:

      I believe there are more fucked countries in more desolate areas in the world than those.

  5. internet? by BushCheney08 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can someone tell me where I can get a copy of this internet thing? I don't wanna be left out...

    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    1. Re:internet? by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

      Sure. Just bite down on your nearest power cord. You should see it then.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    2. Re:internet? by spot35 · · Score: 1

      ...apparently it comes on computers these days...

    3. Re:internet? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      The internet? Is that thing still around?

      Yes, shamelessly stolen from The Simpsons.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    4. Re:internet? by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1
      Can someone tell me where I can get a copy of this internet thing? I don't wanna be left out...
      You work for a computer company? You know...I bet if you could just find some 'product', you could put it up for sale on the internet...then, you'd make some serious money. You could then just sell this product to millions of people around the world, and have very little overhead. You'd probably be able to retire in a couple of years.

      The sad part about that quote above is that, in the year 2002, I had a real estate agent tell me that very thing. Believe it or not, I chose not to list my home with that real estate agent.

    5. Re:internet? by Andrewkov · · Score: 1

      That's funny, I had the opposite experience with a real estate agent. All he does is put the listing on the 'net, and nothing else!

    6. Re:internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      me too

    7. Re:internet? by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 1

      I actually sold that home "by owner". It's not too hard. All real estate agents to is provide you access to the Multi-list. Otherwise, their job is so easy, even I could do it.

    8. Re:internet? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      It's pronounced In-TAR-web

    9. Re:internet? by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 1

      Check you mailbox, AOL are sending the Internet out on CD.

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
  6. the figs.... by shrewd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    t shows 40 percent of U.S. adults used the Web to obtain news, weather or sports information, a dramatic increase from the 7 percent who surfed in 1997, when the bureau conducted a similar study. The report also found that nearly half of adults, 47 percent, used the Internet to find information on products or services. About one-third reported purchasing a product or service online, compared with only 2 percent who did so in 1997


    when it says a third reported purchasing products or services online compared to 2%, is that a third of internet users? or a third of people surveyed? 2% just happens to be almost a third of 7% i noticed.... probably irrelevant though...

    1. Re:the figs.... by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 1

      About one-third reported purchasing a product or service online, compared with only 2 percent who did so in 1997

      More telling would be knowing how many people are getting things for free (to put it gently) online.

      Eric

  7. Paper maps by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Does anybody make (or buy) maps of small towns anymore?

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Paper maps by LordEd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does anybody make (or buy) maps of small towns anymore?

      Yes, paper maps do exist for both large and small cities. In my area, these maps are mostly free because they are supported by advertising local businesses.

      As nice as google maps or other software packages are, its a lot lighter to carry a real map than a laptop, or a lot less expensive than buying a portable GPS map unit.

    2. Re:Paper maps by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not of small towns necessarily, but of regions and states, sure. I have been using a Garmin GPSMap 76 with thier Mapsource software and while it is good for trip planning and the occasional re-routing, it take fore thought to load the maps and really doens't give a good overview of where you are, where you are going, and where you will be.

      Paper maps are exremely useful if your lost and trying to figure out how to get back to where you need to be. Now you can say with a GPS, you never get lost because you always know where you are (and let's just assume you don't loose signal), that is true. But to get back to where you want to go via roads, not as the crow flies typically means. Zoom out to see where you are and try to figure out where you need to be. Try to mouse over roads to get names (which by the way are often route numbers when locally they are named and vice versa and I have seen this on Mapsource, Streets adn Maps, google, and other mapping applications (is other mapping software better)), zoom in to get better pointer resolution, zoom to get context again, set way points, zoom in ... Well, you get the idea.

      Granted the GPSMap 76 wasn't designed to be a guide by wire mapping product, but it does a nice job and has gotten me out of a few jams.

      If someone told me I had to make a choice between paper maps and electronic ones for the rest of my life, today, I would go with paper. They are more reilaible on so many levels and useable. Besides, they are fun to toss out the window when you get more lost using them.

    3. Re:Paper maps by Thrymm · · Score: 1

      All over, in auto parts stores, and in most gas stations which have a quickie mart setup. I still buy them ocassionally, as sometimes Yahoo Maps, MapQuest, etc sometimes are slightly off the mark.

    4. Re:Paper maps by lbrandy · · Score: 1

      Google and Mapquest are only good when you know where you. Maps are necessary when you are lost. Nothing like pulling up lost and in need of direction to Big Jimmy's Muffler and Diner in the middle of Alabama, with 7 pages of google maps and a laptop.

    5. Re:Paper maps by LordEd · · Score: 1

      I tried Microsoft Streets and Trips with the GPS locator. That was REALLY useful when I got lost, not to mention easy searching for addresses. It placed the location dot on top of the house i was looking for.

      Oh, but as many of the Slashdot crowd will be happy to hear, it did crash a few times (but it may have been due to a failing hard drive).

    6. Re:Paper maps by drauh · · Score: 1

      so, there's this thing called a printer, see? and you can print out the maps of the area you'll be travelling in beforehand, see? :)

      --
      This is a tautology.
    7. Re:Paper maps by boring,+tired · · Score: 1

      I've got a paper map in my car. That's about the only place I'd need one.

  8. Census & tech goes way back... by jpellino · · Score: 2, Funny

    I got the pages from the 1930 census - the first one my father was on - there is a category for whether they had a radio in the house or not. He didn't but the Camarco family next door did. Yes, I teased him about it.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  9. I guess that they failed to mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    that 80 percent of U.S. adults used the Web to obtain porn.

    As an administrator for a large ISP, I can see who's really downloading the porn.

    The most popular newsgroup? alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.teen.female.

    1. Re:I guess that they failed to mention by boy_afraid · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the alt.binaries.multimedia.* with MEGA-TONS of pr0n videos.

      Hey, why are you looking at me that way?

    2. Re:I guess that they failed to mention by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The most popular newsgroup? alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.teen.female.

      Possibly, but aren't you confusing 'most popular' with 'generating the most traffic'? I suspect there's plenty newsgroups that are just as popular (or more so), but simply lighter on the data pipes.

      Same with other types of internet usage. Things like e-mail and IM can take a small share of all bandwidth, but still be among the most popular applications.
    3. Re:I guess that they failed to mention by MyOtherUIDis3digits · · Score: 1

      "That's pretty sad... a truly sad commentary... I mean come on, teen girls?!?" "Sweet... Uh, I mean shameful!"

      --
      Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
    4. Re:I guess that they failed to mention by MyOtherUIDis3digits · · Score: 1

      "That's pretty sad... [google: newsgroup, how to] a truly sad commentary... [download: Agent, Newsbin, Unison, Thoth] I mean come on, teen girls?!?" [...teen.female (click)] "Sweeeeeet... Uh, I mean shameful!"

      --
      Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
  10. Link to the actual report by Big+Nothing · · Score: 5, Informative

    The actual report can be found here (PDF warning).

    --
    SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
  11. Emerging Technology by Trolling4Columbine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could the same not be said about any emerging technology? I bet it took things like television, cars, and telephones a few years to gain traction in the American household, but thereafter became an integral part of our lifestyle. I don't see why anyone would think the Internet would be any different.

    --
    Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
    1. Re:Emerging Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      zealot / # emerge technology
      Calculating dependencies
      emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "technology".

      :-(

    2. Re:Emerging Technology by bcattwoo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Could the same not be said about any emerging technology? I bet it took things like television, cars, and telephones a few years to gain traction in the American household, but thereafter became an integral part of our lifestyle. I don't see why anyone would think the Internet would be any different.

      Not necessarily. There are plenty of "mature" technologies that are not a part of the average household (own any small planes?). Whether a technology gains widespread adoption depends on the cost and appeal to consumers. The internet could have easily remained just a geeky way of exchanging research information if it had not been adopted for commercial use.

    3. Re:Emerging Technology by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      The telephone is still used to call emergency help(police, medical, fire). The internet needs to be a device to automatically call help when needed. It will than be looked at as a necessity and will be subsidised so everyone will have it.

    4. Re:Emerging Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      commercial use
      Nice subtle way of saying "porn".

  12. news by cwtrex · · Score: 0

    40 percent of U.S. adults used the Web to obtain news ...

    Why not? It's free and if your the green peace type, it doesn't use paper! The best part about it is, you don't have to wait til tomorrow to find out whether or not your ATI or NVIDA stock just hit rock bottom due to some GPU meltdown.

    I'm actually surprised that it's only 40 percent when you consider the benefits...

  13. Whoa... there are people who don't? by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Tell me more about these mystical creatures who don't spend their time on the internet, and who still play that game called "First Life"... Do they ride unicorns? Do they know Santa Claus?

    --
    Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
  14. 16th place by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    I'm too lazy to find related /. article, it was a few weeks ago, some of you may remember. USA has fallen from 4th (previous year) to 16th (this year) place among countries that have broadband internet.

    So USA is not using internet that much in fact. Another PR stunt just on time when EU wants to takeover.

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
    1. Re:16th place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Broadband isn't the only way to access the Internet. A ton of people still use dialup since they're either too cheap to pay for broadband or it simply isn't available where they live. Remember, the continental United States is much larger than Europe by several times over and we're much more spread out. When DSL only works up to about 18000 feet from a central office you're going to have huge portions of your population that are beyond the limits for broadband connectivity unless their cable company offers it. Hell, I know a lot of people who can't even get cable since they're more than 20 miles from a major city so they just use DirecTV.

    2. Re:16th place by IANAAC · · Score: 1
      USA has fallen from 4th (previous year) to 16th (this year) place among countries that have broadband internet.

      The US is a large place geographically. There are many, many places that still don't have access to broadband, yet do have phone access. Dial-up is quite alive and kicking in the US.

    3. Re:16th place by Bill+Walker · · Score: 1

      I think it's important to make the distinction between broadband penetration and the actual use of broadband in people's daily lives. As has been pointed out elsewhere in these comments, countries which subsidise high speed connections will have a higher percentage of people with access to the internet, but not necessarily of internet use.
      Rather than a 'PR' stunt this is a different look at internet use. I don't thinki the Census Bureau really has an agenda to promote the US over other nations.
      Anecdotally, I work in a fairly international and technologically savvy industry and I'd say Europeans are much more likely to use cell phone services where Americans would use the internet. The gap has certainly narrowed a great deal, but I'd say the Americans were generally much faster at picking up new internet phenomena (and again, this is just from my personal experience).

      --
      Please, for the love of God, no more car analogies.
  15. The Web Is Not The Internet! by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The internet plays a large role in every US citizen's life. Virtually every bank, insurance company, restaurant, factory, school or other organization relies on the the net in one form or another to function productively (or function at all in some cases). Just because not everyone making use of those pieces of our culture and economy directly use the web doesn't mean that they're un-impacted by the internet.

    To the extent that we have all sorts of just-in-time deliveries to factories, package tracking, widely accessible databases, and all sorts of other efficiency-enabling goodies that rely on internetworking, the thrust of the summary sells it very short. Sure, web/e-mail/IM use by individuals is way, way up from 5 or 10 years ago - but the country's use of the internet, down at the economic and government plumbing level, affects everyone, and in ways that most people don't appreciate until it breaks.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  16. Money! by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In 2004, 39.5 million U.S. households shopped online, Forrester said, 3.5 million more than in 2003. The company predicts broadband, laptop and home networking adoption will help drive online research and purchasing to more than 55 million households by 2010.

    Well, it depends on how much the bandwidth charges cost. In their equation, bandwidth is the only thing that isn't going down in price. Home networking gear, laptops, mobile devices with wireless/GPRS, etc, are all falling rapidly. It's the network connection fees that are prohibitive.

    They are claiming that a huge percentage of households will have broadband available to them by 2010 but how many will be able to afford it with restrictions such as required CATV, local phone service, etc? Yeah, the actual Internet connection seems inexpensive until you realize that you have to bundle it w/the other services to get a reasonable rate.

    That's what needs to be ended before broadband adoption skyrockets.

    1. Re:Money! by ijustwanttocommenton · · Score: 1

      I'd just like to say that the price of a decent internet connection has and continues to drop significantly. And it by no means has to be bundled with another service to get a reasonable rate. There are a number of services that only offer broadband and are very reasonable. Usually much less than cable or DSL.

    2. Re:Money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a number of services that only offer broadband and are very reasonable. Usually much less than cable or DSL.

      Go on, explain, you were quite vague and thus I really don't believe you. Are you suggesting that recent wireless offerings are inexpensive? Perhaps if you only look at their monthly charges and blatantly ignore their upfront setup fees of $500+.

      Maybe you speak of entities like Speakeasy DSL which don't offer all that much bandwidth for their cost but are effective alternatives for requirement bound DSL offerings from telcos.

      Perhaps you mean something else entirely, something I've never heard of or can't find here (like the ever-so hated Powerline Broadband)?

      In the future don't waste our time. Speak up and be heard the first time.

  17. Pffft! Porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    I've banged escorts I found on the web.

    You think I'm kidding, but I'm not.

    Now if only our Victorian era legal system could be dragged into the 21st century...

    1. Re:Pffft! Porn? by William_Lee · · Score: 1

      This is Slashdot... Trust me, we believe you!

  18. Right... by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

    and what about the people who can't afford internet access? Should we just forget about them? They don't count? This article should be a clarion call that we need to be doing more to help minorities break the digital divide so they can get good jobs.

    --
    Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    1. Re:Right... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1
      and what about the people who can't afford internet access? Should we just forget about them? They don't count?
      Where does this suggestion come from?
    2. Re:Right... by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      and what about the people who can't afford internet access? Should we just forget about them?

      Go. To. The. Library.

      Or, are you suggesting that poor families that live too far from a library instead be provided with dial-up ISP accounts, a telephone line if they don't have one, a computer they clearly don't know how to use, and ongoing tech support such as will clearly be needed when someone who has never used these things is suddenly depending on them to "get a good job."

      Or... perhaps those parents should be encouraging their kids to pay attention in school? There are countless ways for schools to get hold of free computer hardware and net access, but most don't have the staff needed to supervise/train students in the continual use thereof. If you're posting this comment, right now, about how I should be listening to the "clarion call" that you're mentioning... first tell me how many schools you've visited with that rebuilt Ubunto P3-450 and a $9 donation to cover that month's dial-up access for the machine?

      And... minorities? Do you really think that lack of experience online, and lack of personally owned net-connected workstations is limited somehow to people of one color or another? Are you that race-fixated? Ever driven through Appalachia? Wake up, man, and talk some less myopic, skin-color-driven smack so that you can be taken seriously. And explain what you've done before telling me what I should do.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Right... by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The library? Right. Conservatives have cut library funding for decades. Most of the libraries near where poor people live don't have internet access because they can't afford it. So they have to go to faraway libraries (whilst paying bus fair!) and then pay out-of-zone fees for a library card that you have to get to be allowed to use their internet there. Plus, all of the libraries I know require you to show photo ID to get on, which a lot of people don't want to reveal because they may have a criminal record (though have served their time) or bad immigration status. It's really sad.

      So you say that they should just get dialup? Dialup is a horribly slow way for them to access all the moder sites with all their bells and whistles. So then what? Pay $50 a month for high-speed? That's precisely the poverty margin for most people. Yeah, see, most people of color tend to prefer to spend that on, I don't know, diapers and baby formula.

      What have I done? I've spent thousands of dollars writing my congressman and starting campaigns to get free internet access to poor people and prevent companies like Google from "dumping" their internet access on richer neighborhoods like San Fran. How much have you given to campaigns for politicians who want to increase internet access?

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    4. Re:Right... by irablum · · Score: 1

      wasn't that what NetZero was all about? but that didn't go too far.....

      Ira

    5. Re:Right... by conJunk · · Score: 1
      on richer neighborhoods like San Fran

      you haven't a clue what you're talking about. if you think a city of 1.x million, which happens to be at the center of a metro area with a population of ~10 million can be considered a "richer neighborhood" then my only polite response is that you are just making this shit up to try to impress people

      last week in san francisco (that "rich neighborhood") a schizophrenic 23 year old mother of 3 threw her babbies into the bay because the voices told her to feed them to the sharks... i'll give you one guess which income brack she's in

      i work in downtown oakland. my walk to work include views across bays to san francisco as a go past countless homeless shelters, community resource centers, and transitional housing developments. these aren't people who are going to benefit from any government technology projects... they need hope first

      you clearly have never been to my city, and i somehow doubt you've spent "thousand of dollars writing [your] congressman"... additionally, anybody who thinks free internet access is the solution to poverty clearly understands about as much about poverty as your average off-the-shelf republican president

    6. Re:Right... by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Conservatives have cut library funding for decades

      Except that most libraries are, and should be, extensions of the local educational framework. Those are administered, and typically funded by local taxes (usually property taxes) overseen by state legislatures and county councils. The most impoverished, under-educated, high-unemployment areas of the country aren't run by conservatives, they're run - at the city, county, and state levels - by liberals. You'd think that areas (take, say, New Orleans as an example) where Democratic politicians have had their way for decades at the city, county, and state levels, that their policies would surely have resulted in an education paradise by now... right? Or maybe throwing money at the situation doesn't actually make the difference, and it has more to do with a culture of accountability, personal integrity, and parents that actually give a damn about whether their kids are in school and getting their brains in order.

      I live just outside of Wasington DC. That school system has one of the highest dropout rates in the country, despite having one of the highest per-capita expenditures per student (over $10,000 per student per year - which would educate three or more students, internet access and all, in most other jurisdictions). The city is full of internet-enabled libraries, churches, and other community centers. But it's also full of families (and more often, single teenage mothers) that don't bother to arrange for anything like a stable home before having kids. It's outrageous that those kids should have to pay the price for their parents not giving a damn, but only parents can keep their kids going to school and paying attention.

      Plus, all of the libraries I know require you to show photo ID to get on, which a lot of people don't want to reveal because they may have a criminal record (though have served their time) or bad immigration status.

      So, you're suggesting that it's lack of internet access that's keeping someone from getting a good job, but it's their criminal history that's keeping them from getting internet access? If their legal status is that shaky, just what sort of good job did you think that internet access was going to enable them to get? Having a felony on your record doesn't stop you from using public facilities such as libraries. Being a wanted felon does, but again, no legit job is forthcoming then either. And, bad immigration status? So, again, you're hoping that net access is going to get someone who is already breaking the law a good job? If you're in the country illegally, while other people who want to be legal are going to the trouble and time to do so, why should I care to in any way subsidize internet access for you? Willing law breakers are exhibiting a willingness to lie, to abuse the system, and to cheat other people out of a place that those other people are willing to wait for. And you think that internet access should be provided (with other people's money) so that person can look for a "good" job? How do you define "good?" Someone who's willing to hire criminals? At least think about what you're saying, here.

      is a horribly slow way for them to access all the moder sites with all their bells and whistles.

      And buses are horribly slow ways for people to access the roads, and they only go to certain places - not always the places with all the "bells and whistles." And people pay for bus use, too. Why is it OK to have to walk to a bus stop to use highly subsidized public transportation, but not OK for it to take several seconds longer while your job-search web site loads over dial-up?

      Yeah, see, most people of color tend to prefer to spend that on, I don't know, diapers and baby formula.

      Why are you so obsessed with thinking that there are no such things as white people that can't afford to blow $50 a month because they also need to buy diapers? It's called personal responsibility... as in, don't have babies if the cost of having

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:Right... by IANAAC · · Score: 1
      you haven't a clue what you're talking about. if you think a city of 1.x million, which happens to be at the center of a metro area with a population of ~10 million can be considered a "richer neighborhood" then my only polite response is that you are just making this shit up to try to impress people

      In comparison to much of the rest of the country, it is a "rich neighborhood". If you can't figure that out by the obvious real estate prices, then please search wikipedia for per capita and household incomes.

      I say this as someone who lived in SF for twenty years and recently moved to Chicago.

      Look, there are poor people in every major city across the country, because metro areas tend have the most resources to help poor people. But, compare SF with other metro areas, and yeah, it's a pretty rich county.

    8. Re:Right... by conJunk · · Score: 1
      Look, there are poor people in every major city across the country, because metro areas tend have the most resources to help poor people. But, compare SF with other metro areas, and yeah, it's a pretty rich county.

      while you're right, i don't think its an entirely fair approach. if we distributed support based on mean income, or on mean real estate prices, then a lot of very needy people are getting screwed. while the bay area does have some of the highest real estate, it also has a much more pronounced wealth gap than other areas. the difference beween the well off and the poor in appalacia is tiny compared to the situation here

      i don't know what the solution is, but i think it's the wrong approach to identify certain areas as more needy than others, when the real problems are much more systemic than geographic

    9. Re:Right... by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      The poor people you see must be doing something wrong. All the parasites on my street use money from unemployment and social security checks to pay for their internet access.

      Not that they use it to get "good jobs". Even if they wanted a good job AND they cared to get one (why work if you don't have to?), they don't have the skills to get a good job. And the web is not going to help them all that much there.

    10. Re:Right... by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      Dialup is a horribly slow

      Aww... that's too bad. Let me shed a tear for the poor people with dial-up. Oh wait, nevermind. I don't give a shit. I only recently got 256k DSL, but guess where I used to go for internet access? Yep. The library. It wasn't hard. I just had to wait in line. That was it.

      Yeah, see, most people of color tend to prefer to spend that on, I don't know, diapers and baby formula.

      I know it's a bit out of context, but that's one fucked up thing to say. You might as well say: "Most black people are too busy pumping out ghetto children to get on the 'net." And besides, formula comes out of food stamps anyway. It's not like they're really paying out of pocket.

      How much have you given to campaigns for politicians who want to increase internet access?

      Zero. From what I see of my neighborhood, folks get enough already. Hell, they certainly eat a lot better than I do. And how the women on the street love to shop for expensive clothes, makeup, etc. I've been shopping with them myself and I'm appalled at how much they spend. I mean... I spend maybe $10-20 a year on clothes and they will drop $50 like it's nothing.

      And just so you know, these same people think my plan of retiring from the military is stupid. Why work 20 years just for a retirement? Why not quit and mooch off the government right now? Good question. The answer: I'm willing to work for a *slightly* higher quality of life (in the future anyway). That's the key difference: I'm willing to work. Not that I care for it. I'm a pretty lazy guy, but these folks are more lazy than me. Giving them internet access won't change that.

      You know, there might be people out there with jobs, on welfare, struggling to keep up, but that's not what I see. I live in the 2nd worst neighborhood in my city and I see people getting by quite nicely on the labors of others, so I find it quite disgusting when people suggest more taxes go to the "poor".

      And by the way, I'm sure if you imported some poor folks from other countries, they'd be disgusted too, seeing such lazy people living quite comfortably indeed. Have you ever seen real poverty? How far outside the US have you ventured? I've seen real poverty. People living in mud huts, certainly malnourished, burning wood in barrels to keep warm, with no electricity, water, sewage, etc. Now those are people I feel sorry for. They have basically no opportunities in life. Folks in the US have plenty. Anybody can get a job here. It may not be fun, but a job's a job.

      You know what I'd support? An foreign exchange program. Import hard-working foreigners and permanently deport the lazy pieces of shit we've more than enough of in this country. While we're at it, let's deport all the assholes who want to enable said lazy people on the backs of those who do work. I would gladly stake my tax dollars on that!

    11. Re:Right... by elemental23 · · Score: 1

      they don't have the skills to get a good job. And the web is not going to help them all that much there.

      Are you kidding? I learned everything I know about computers from using the internet. In the '90s I went from delivering pizza to working in tech support after owning my first computer (with internet access) for only a year, and have steadily climbed from there.

      From PC troubleshooting to web design to coding to *nix system and network administration, it all came from using the internet (although not just the web; usenet helped a lot too).

      --
      I like my women like my coffee... pale and bitter.
    12. Re:Right... by AMuse · · Score: 1

      >> Yeah, see, most people of color tend to prefer to spend that on, I don't know, diapers and baby formula.

      Also, as someone planning on having a child and doing the research, i'm compelled to point out that for most people, diapers are the only necessary portion of that spending (and reusable ones are cheaper). Most women who become mothers have a natural limited supply of baby food that's FREE, and don't need to buy formula. In actuality formula is less healthy than breast milk anyway.

      Also, some of the companies who make formula have been doing some pretty darn dishonest things.... The world would be a better place if less people assumed that having a child means paying for formula...

    13. Re:Right... by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      From the sound of it, you had some motivation and I did write: "And the web is not going to help them all that much there."

      Sure, there's plenty to learn from the net and it sounds like you have the aptitude and motivation to harness that. But, not everyone is like that. The few folks on my street that actually own computers are averse to bothering with them beyond IM and online shopping.

      Not only that, but it sounds like you caught things early and, on top of that, location is a factor. Here in Spokane, there seems to currently be some sort of IT job blight. A friend of mine came up here and tried and tried to get an IT job for about 6 months, but he ended up going back to California because he couldn't find any job remotely IT. He left last year and is already teaching classes at some school and he's pulling in clients for a side business as well (service-on-site & web design).

      But again, this guy is motivated. In fact, far more than I, and he's one intelligent bastard, too. So, if he couldn't get a job here, I don't see handing out free internet access as too useful. Keep in mind, my commentary is locale based... which makes mine a narrow view, but I believe it's applicable to the discussion, nonetheless.

      If you want people to gain skills so they can get a job, why not integrate trades more into high school? I don't know about other cities, but here in Spokane, there's always construction going on. You could teach plumbing, roofing, etc. These jobs aren't rocket science. You don't need a degree. A couple classes should do. I'm guessing the same goes for plenty of other jobs.

      And a computer is a tool, much like a school textbook. If you give a kid a school textbook and say do what you want with it, chances are, the kid is going to ignore it and go play. Without the context somewhat forced on them by the public school system, they don't care. They have poor impulse control... as do a lot of the poor folks around me, evidenced by the markedly high rate of substance abuse.

  19. Smoking bad for you by LS · · Score: 1

    And a lot of people are using the Internet? Woah, what was that? I think I just saw Captain Obvious fly by!

    --
    There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
  20. The Internet Makes You Stupid by d3matt · · Score: 1, Troll

    Seriously, the Internet makes it almost too easy to access information. If I want pizza, I go online and order it. If I want a movie, I go online and order it. To submit homework, I go online to submit it. To get a job, I email applications and lookup company profiles on the internet. I guess the Internet is the new opiate for the masses.

    --
    I am d3matt
    1. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I guess the Internet is the new opiate for the masses.

      I love it when people toss about references with no understanding of their origin or meaning. When Marx initially wrote about religion being the opiate, he was actually paying it a (albeit backhanded) compliment, that awareness of a religious idea can steer people toward a more noble life. It makes the oppressed fell better about their condition.

      Marx figured religion would become obsolete anyway after the Revolution[tm].

      Now even if we take the fully negative context that has been imposed on the quote over the years, your previous statement does not add up:

      Seriously, the Internet makes it almost too easy to access information. If I want pizza, I go online and order it. If I want a movie, I go online and order it. To submit homework, I go online to submit it. To get a job, I email applications and lookup company profiles on the internet.

      And where's the downside you are seeing? The Marx quote is sometimes applied to television and other mediums that tend to make people passive and distracted. What you describe is a handy and practical tool, and somehow this offends you.

      So what's really interesting here is that the Marx quote, in its original context, might actually apply to some extent to the Internet, but not for the reasons you think.

    2. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by goofyheadedpunk · · Score: 1

      Your post seems to boil down to this: "I do a convenient thing with the internet. I do another convenient thing with the internet. I do yet another convenient thing with the internet. Therefore, it makes people stupid." I don't get it.

      Please elaborate a bit. How does having to walk across campus in the freezing rain to turn in homework make one smarter, or at least maintains your current level of intelligence? How does calling a pizza place and ordering pizza for delivery do the same thing?

      --

      What if the entire Universe were a chrooted environment with everything symlinked from the host?
    3. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi fellow Goon!

    4. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by d3matt · · Score: 1
      I guess I really should put more thought into my posts...

      What I mean is, the internet makes it too easy to do certain things. It makes it almost too easy to do research, shopping, and even education. I guess my title wasn't quite appropriate, but I figure somebody might appreciate the "Something Awful reference." In a way, I wanted to almost tie this post to the IDE (rottign the brain) article the other day. The internet allows you to do things very quickly, not necessarily smartly. Don't get me wrong, I love the internet, but I think we rely too much on it.

      As to the opiate reference. Yes, I do understand where that reference comes from. No, I don't think it's entirely misplaced. People can find anything they want on the internet to keep them occupied so they won't be doing more important things. This is not just limited to blogs and porn. Almost everything on the internet consumes our time and energy. It would definitly be interesting to see how Marx, Locke, Plato and the other great philosophers on government and society would deal with the internet. It put people from all levels of society on a fairly level playing field, especially here and at wikipedia. Where else can a young polynesian schoolboy with minimal english mix with intellectuals and actually argue with them, but yet again, the internet makes it easy to do so. Without the internet, the same young schoolboy would have to work that much harder to interact with people in the elites (many would argue become a better person in the process).

      Who knows... All I know is that when people are given something that makes it easier to get on with their lives, they don't exploit it fully and become better people. They just waste the extra time they have, and therefore, they are more stupid in the process.

      Matt

      P.S. Should it be internet or Internet? I can never remember that one.

      --
      I am d3matt
    5. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1
      Seriously, the Internet makes it almost too easy to access information. If I want pizza, I go online and order it. If I want a movie, I go online and order it. To submit homework, I go online to submit it. To get a job, I email applications and lookup company profiles on the internet. I guess the Internet is the new opiate for the masses.

      Seriously, shops make it almost too easy to get products. If I want pizza, I go to the pizza shop and buy it. If I want a movie, I go to a shop and buy it on DVD. I guess shops are the new opiate for the masses.

      Exercise for the reader: Do the same for cars (make it too easy to get to other places), vacuum cleaners (make it too easy to clean your room), washing machines (make it too easy to wash), electric cookers (make it too easy to cook), hoists (make it too easy to move things upward), ways (make it too easy to walk), ...
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by blake3737 · · Score: 0

      Maybe it makes YOU stupid, but personally, I'm as smart as they come. I havn't mispeled anything since I got teh internet. They spell checker works wonders; for spelling and grammer to. My resume witch I got help with on line, got me this the job that pays big bucks. Now I dine cavier for desert!

    7. Re:The Internet Makes You Stupid by pclminion · · Score: 1
      When Marx initially wrote about religion being the opiate, he was actually paying it a (albeit backhanded) compliment, that awareness of a religious idea can steer people toward a more noble life. It makes the oppressed fell better about their condition.

      Yes. Here's the real full quote, from Wikipedia:

      "Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

      Religion is the "heart of a heartless world?" The "soul of soulless conditions?" It hardly seems that Marx was trying to insult religion.

      I consider misquotation to be a horrific intellectual crime, right up there with fabricating data.

  21. Average person spends more time using media by vivekg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The average person spends about nine hours a day using some type of media, which is arguably in excess of anything we would have envisioned 10 years ago. It includes television, books, magazines, cell phones, the Internet, instant messaging, e-mail and radio ... full report is here

    --
    The important thing is not to stop questioning --Albert Einstein.
  22. Alaska = 70%?! by PhatboySlim · · Score: 1
    "Alaska ranked the highest, with nearly 70 percent having access to the Web."

    .... must be all that eskimo pr0n!

    --
    Be sure to remember the Programmers Prayer
    1. Re:Alaska = 70%?! by Trolling4Columbine · · Score: 1

      That's fairly easy to explain.

      For most people, the Web is the best, and in many cases, the ONLY connection to the rest of the country/world.

      In a state where many locations aren't even connected with roads, an information media like the Internet is invaluable.

      --
      Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
    2. Re:Alaska = 70%?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could we please refrain from racist and insulting language? They are called Inuit's. The word you used is worse than calling black folks the dreaded N word...

  23. Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's very true about the internet not being limited to what we personally use in our homes, but I think an important thing to note here is that just-in-time is not unique to the internet. It's not even unique to long-distance communications. [rant] People have always wanted to minimize storage time. Then some people started focusing on it and it had a better return than improving in other areas. Then some genius decided that "hey, I've invented a new concept: just-in-time manufacturing and delivery!" But there's no real invention... it's just improving on existing methods. It's not like one day people realized that storage time imposes real costs. It's in no way a novel idea. It's like if I invented a new manufacturing paradigm called high-quality-manufacturing where I try to give customers the best product.[/rant]

    Not that you carry any of these assumptions, it just needed to be said.

    --
    Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    1. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Well, your point is correct, and I appreciate your saying that you weren't countering anything I said, but I hope I was clear in implying that things like JIT-manufacturing as we currently enjoy them, and the economic efficiencies they produce, depend utterly on the interconnectivity of large companies. Good old EDI was taking care of that before SOAP and all the new stuff - but without the network, now, we'd be several percentage points more sluggish (probably muce more) in our manufacturing and financial sectors - and the economy wouldn't have grown as it has, nor be as able to recover from classic recessions (or terrorist attacks, or hurricanes) as quickly.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by Ansonmont · · Score: 1

      Very true. I am a reseller, and I do all my own buying and selling. I always check froogle/google/other search to both track down products, but also to compare the pricing and to see who is considered to be a good vendor.

      Another way that the Internet facilitates commerce and efficiency is in rating both specific products as well as vendors.

      Bad products tend to fail more quickly (note, no supporting data to back up that hunch), and I definitely use other people's ratings to adjust from whom/what I am going to buy. If overall someone's ratings indicate "DON'T BUY FROM THESE WEASELS!* that is extremely valuable information.

      That said, the phone is also ESSENTIAL to commerce. What about studying phone usage? Seems like the biggest thing that has only gone up since it started with Mr Bell long ago.

      -A

    3. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      No, that is not an "assumption when studying pure capitalism". Nor does "studying pure capitalism" "assume", as wags like to claim (are you ready) ...

      perfect competition, perfect rationality, perfect elasticity, perfect price flexibility, zero externalities, zero negotiation costs, zero transaction costs, zero surprises, zero entry costs, zero exit costs, infinite producers, infinite consumers, time-invariant preferences, homogeneous capital stock, etc etc etc.

      Regarding the study of markets under imperfect information, there has been plent of work on what's called "search theory". The model is that people search until the marginal benefit of searching (additional probability of finding a better option times the improvement of that option) is about equal to the marginal cost of searching (any additional time and effort towards searching). It applies to a wide variety of areas: job-searching, bargain-searching, employee-searching, marital-partner-searching, and so on. It's just another "cost" in markets. The role of the entrepreneur is in reducing search costs between suppliers and demanders. The necessity of this doesn't call any fundamental insight into question. In fact, the Nobel Prize winner in economics four years go won it because of his studies that showed that despite lack of information on the part of any one person, markets act as if they were well-informed. Most markets turned out to be more efficient than even the most rosy-eyed economists predicted.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    4. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by syphax · · Score: 1

      I respectfully disagree. JIT by itself it just an optimization, but it is a core a component of lean manufacturing, which was in many respects a novel concept, at least as compared with classic mass manufacturing. I know this viscerally because in my job we try to teach lean concepts to many of our clients, and some Just Don't Get It. It seems so counter-intuitive to them ("Why would I want small batch sizes? That takes more set-up time!")

      Of course, it's a matter of semantics, what is truly "new" vs. what is an improvement on existing methods. You could argue that Calculus was just an improvement on existing methods; same for the transistor. I would disagree and call those new; same with lean manufacturing (although not quite as dramatic a jump).

      Reading:

      Go to Lean.org and read Lean Thinking, The Machine that Changed the World, etc.

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    5. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      Wow, calling an economic theory handling the implications of imperfect information "pseudo-intellectual crap"... my confidence is shaken

      You really, really don't know what you're talking about. First of all, perfect information (which needn't be capitalized) is not "an assumption at the undergrad level". They might refer to specific circumstances and assume away search costs for simplicity for that application, but I know of no undergraduate cirriculum that teaches "markets only work with perfect information, and markets always have perfect information".

      Just off the top of my head, here's an intro econ course (okay, it's 103 instead of 101) that talks about search costs:

      The course notes: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/e 103/econ103.htm (see week 10)

      And the specific lecture: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/e 103/micro8.htm - see section II

      And if you want to fall back your pitiful "well, capitalism works better with zero search costs", fine, that's true, but trivial. Capitalism works better with zero transaction costs, zero negotiation costs, zero costs of production, perfect rationality, etc. Again, that doesn't throw any economic insights into doubt. And I don't understand your focus on "capitalism". Mixed economies and socialism have to deal with search costs too, even if, as in the former case, they are dispersed differently, or, as in the latter case, they are denominated in non-monetary units. Having socialism or regulation does not get you out of the problem of information, so it wouldn't itself prove any system better than any other

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    6. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      JIT is not "new" because all it does is say "hey, it helps when you reduce cost X". Look at the costs that can occur in manufacturing:

      a) cost of the material inputs
      b) cost of labor
      c) cost of negotiating contracts
      d) costs of breaks in the supply chain
      e) cost of reducing the reject rate
      f) costs of setup

      and, of course

      g) cost of storing the goods before use or sale

      So you claim it's a novel idea to try to reduce g). Okay, do you consider it a novel idea, worthy of a specific name and being called a "paradigm" to reduce b) as well? What's the name for when you try to make your process involve lower-skilled labor and thereby reduce labor costs? What's the name for when you try to locate your factory on the cheapest land, accounding for the gain in transportation costs? Would they be considered ground-breaking if someone gave them a name?

      "JIT" is always explained as "when you deliver the goods just in time". It's nothing more than reducing one of the costs. But people have always tried to reduce those costs! Does it deserve its own name just because it became more profitable relative to trying to cut other costs?

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    7. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      Wow, first the "pseudo-intellectual" comment, and now bringing up unrelated matters... you're not desperate, no, of course not.

      Let's clear one thing up: I am not attacking you. You stated falsities. I am correcting those falsities. The quote I gave was of course not a quote of you; it is what a course would have to teach for your statements to be right. Let's go over what you said:

      "One of the ASSumptions when studying pure capitalism is Perfect Information." http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166641&cid=138 96549

      then you said

      "Yes, Perfect Information absolutely IS an assumption at the undergrad level (notice I mentioned Econ 101)."

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166641&cid=138 96838

      So I gave you citations from an actual low-level undergrad econ course that specifically showed it is NOT an assumption. You are in error. Just admit it.

      And I'm not restating something you said. You said studies of capitalism "assume" perfect information. (See your first quote again you conveniently forgot.) That then morphed into, well, um, yeah, it's like, uh, "The closer you get to Perfect Information throughout the system the better a capitalist economy runs (all other things being equal)." That's not what you said. If all you were saying is that a "capitalist economy" (as opposed to...?) runs "better" (however it is you're defining it) when costs are lower, you didn't have to resort to ill-conceived attacks on capitalism to say. Everything works better when its costs are lower. Is this the novel insight you brought to this thread? Because it sure sounded like you were saying [note: not a quote of you; don't gripe] "the internet corrects the flaws that are unique to capitalism". But you're actually just saying it's an improvement.

      So, all this time you were really just saying that the internet is an improvement, and were not trying to attack capitalism at all. Wow, I really didn't know the internet was an improvement.

      Why not try saying precisely what you mean instead of changing it aroud. If anyone's upset, it's you because someone actually knew his shit and was able to offer citations, and that totally caught you flat-footed and red-handed.

      At the very least, admit your statement about Econ undergrad courses was in error.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    8. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by Mikail · · Score: 1

      Dude, did an undergrad Econ course kill your father or something? Or did you meet this amazing women, have a whirlwind romance with her, then she tragically assumed perfect information, or capitalized it, and then the Econ Nazis ripped her away from you? I don't mean to pry, it just seems like there's got to be a fascinating story about why you're so adamant about this point...

      --
      If life is a waste of time and time is a waste of life, let's all get wasted and have the time of our lives.
    9. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I was a bit harsh. But he was so clearly wrong yet carried on as if he was right, while trying to make me look like the dunce. If he walks away sad, that's his problem for getting caught telling lies. I'm here to enlighten, not to delight; to inform, not form friendships; to debunk, not gain bunkmates.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    10. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      Let me see if I can help you, Mr. Egg-on-Face. You accuse me of making strawmen and then claim that I'm dying that moving closer to perfect information (which needn't be capitalized) is a good thing? Of course it is. What I object to is your implication that imperfect information is somehow a "flaw" of capitalism that doesn't exist equally in other systems. I'm especially perplexed by all your references to "pure capitalistic theory". I don't know of any "pure capitalist theory"... they talk about "market theory" and its implications for systems like capitalism, socialism, and a mixed economy.

      Read your original post: you were claiming, not just that better information is good, but that imperfect information (note lack of capitalization) is somehow a failure of capitalism that rosy-eyed economists assume. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you want to call that a failure of capitalism, you might as well call these a "failure of capitalism":

      -production requries labor
      -technology is imperfect
      -some people are evil

      In your original post, if your current position were actually true, you could have just said "the internet reduces search costs". But you didn't. It was your chance to sneak in a totally unfounded jab at capitalism to say nothing of your ignorance of economics.

      Finally let's see your unfortunate quote: "Yes, Perfect Information absolutely IS an assumption at the undergrad level (notice I mentioned Econ 101). " No qualification whatsoever. I proved you completely wrong there. Do they assume zero search costs for some applications? Sure, in certain cases, where warranted. You have to be able to isolate the "ceteris paribus" effects you're now falling back on when analyzing systems.

      You have been seriously thrashed this time around and don't even realize it.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    11. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      Imperfect information is assumed

      Oh okay, so you're agree with me then that they don't assume perfect information. In the future, try not to spout off about how in ALL of undergrad studies they work off of perfect information (whose capitalization only causes people to revise downward estimates of your knowledge on the issue). They don't.

      Interesting quote you have there - too bad it says nothing about perfect information, nor claim that all of the theory about how markets work relies on perfect information.

      And again, you're missing the point of my terminological quibble - there is no "capitalistic theory", just "market theory". "Capitalistic" sounds like that which is advocated by proponents of capitalism.

      I'm glad I was able to improve your understanding of the issues, even if you don't want to admit it.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    12. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by syphax · · Score: 1


      No. No. No.

      JIT is one component of lean manufacturing. What lean manufacturing aims to do is *not* optimize just (g), or (b), or (c). What lean manufacturing does is optimize (a + b + c + d + e + f + g), in particular by focusing on (d, e, f, g), which in turn have positive impacts on (a, b), which are your largest costs.

      I agree that JIT as a method of just minimizing (g) is nothing new. And that's how a lot of companies use it. But that's not how Toyota uses it.

      You are really not understanding some important concepts about how JIT fits into a bigger picture. Read the book Lean Thinking and get back to me.

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    13. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      So... what you're saying is, when the rate of return (dollars saved per dollar invested) is highest when funds are allocated to reducing g), businesses try to reduce g). If the ROR is highest in a), then businesses should try to reduce a). When b), b). When c), c). When d), d). When e), e). When f), f).

      In other words, businesses should invest in the areas that give them the greatest return. WOW. I totally did not know that. Let's invent a new name for this "innovation". I'll call it NBD (Not Being a Dumbass) manufacturing.

      Look, I sympathize that you have to teach a few idiots that saving money in one area can cost more in another. I really do. But investing in reducing the cost of one thing until it becomes cheaper to reduce the cost of another thing is not innovation. It is exactly what businesses have done since the days of barter.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    14. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by syphax · · Score: 1


      First, why do you have to write like such a smart-ass? Especially when it is clear, as I have pointed out repeatedly, that you are missing something?

      You still are missing it. Lean manufacturing, of which JIT is a component, is not about prioritizing optimizations. It is about optimizing the whole, which often results in steps that appear, in isolation, to be sub-optimal. It is not about optimizing a, then b, then c, etc., in the order of greatest return. It is about realizing that a, b, c, etc. are linked, and the best optimization for (a) actually might suck for (b) and (c). It is about realizing that large batch sizes, which optimize the isolated per-piece cost of any particular step, actually totally suck, and, counter-intuitively, small batch sizes, which are not optimal for any isolated case, actually allow you to reduce waste everywhere in the supply chain.

      One would think that optimizing across the whole supply chain would be obvious, but history clearly shows that it is not. Toyota gets it; the Japanese learned the general idea from Deming; plenty of companies that should know better still do not get it.

      Please read Lean Thinking. From your posts, it is clear that you have not. That, plus your attitude, makes further discussion fruitless. You have the same attitude as auto execs who still do not understand why Toyota is eating their lunch by any measure (market share, profit- you name it).

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    15. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      No, I understand completely. I'm missing nothing. If a change saves in one area, but costs more in another area, don't do it. I get that. Unlike most of the people you seem to be picking off the street and giving paycheks to, I understand that sometimes, saving money in one area can cost you more in another. I also understand that you want to optimize total return, not return on any one process.

      Your distinction between recognizing that "a, b, c, etc. are linked" and investing in order of highest to lowest return in no way contradicts my analysis about investing in the area with the highest ROR. If one option is to invest in increasing the efficiency in a, but because of linkage to c, that increases the costs associated with c, then that cost needs to count against the return on investing in a to determine if it has the highest ROR. If investing in two things at once has a higher ROR than investing in either one in isolation, do that. This is exactly what businesses have done since time immemorial. If delivering goods "just in time" would have induced a higher ROI in the Middle Ages, people would have done it then. They wouldn't need high-paid consultants to remind them to invest where the ROR is the highest.

      This comment comparing me to auto execs is pure slander. If I were an exec and someone came up to me and said "if we use smaller batch sizes, we can save on overall costs", I can 100% guarantee you I would not say "but small batch sizes are inefficient!". I might check the validity of the calculations, but unlike the Ivy League geniuses you have helping you, I wouldn't immediately rule it out.

      Just a question for you: if I realized that investing X dollars in increasing quality increased the amount buyers were willing to pay by more than X, could I call that "insight" "High-Quality-Production" HQP and then write books that I require you to read before responding?

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    16. Re:Just-in-Time ... Just-a-Note by syphax · · Score: 1

      Ok, now that you are writing with a slightly less insulting tone, this conversation is more fun.

      Where to start...

      Let's see, you claim that If I were an exec and someone came up to me and said "if we use smaller batch sizes, we can save on overall costs", I can 100% guarantee you I would not say "but small batch sizes are inefficient!"., and yet, despite my repeated assertions to the contrary, you insist that I understand completely. I'm missing nothing.. To be true to your claim, I would have expected that you might ask a (non-rhetorical) question or two about what I'm trying to educate you about- you know, maybe try to do some due diligence, rather than dismiss an idea (that lean manufacturing is actually a significant improvement in operating a company) outright. You have acted *exactly* like your "Ivy League genius". But that's not directly relevant to our discussion.

      For the record, since you brought it up, I am a highly-(over)-paid consultant, who also attended an Ivy League institution. Summa cum laude. I have a degree from MIT, too. But I really learned about lean concepts from someone with no college education. Go figure.

      You have demonstrated that you have a good textbook understanding of how to maximize ROR. Well done. However, the thrust of lean methods (of which JIT is but one component) is not "hey, you should really try to maximize ROR." Lean concepts represent a coherent methodology for determining *how* to maximize ROR in ways that clearly have not always been obvious.

      You seem to view the exercise of maximizing ROR as a reductionist exercise. If you start with a business with certain characteristics, all you have to do is evaluate where the biggest bang for the buck is, and that's where you invest in to optimize ROR. While all well and good in a textbook, this is oversimplified bullshit in practice. Let's say your business has 10 important parameters (cost of labor, etc.), and that some of these are tightly or weakly (or negatively) coupled with others. Do you know how many degrees of freedom there are in such a system? How do you analyze that? Do you construct models of the 1000's of different possible paths forward (if you do, I mentioned I'm a consultant, give me a call so I can book you through to my retirement)? Do you have perfect data to feed these models, and perfectly rational managers to evaluate the results? No, no, and no. So what do you do? You develop some theories, evaluate them with the best data you can get, and fumble around in mediocrity for years. Or you develop or embrace a set of principles that allow you to set up a system that is almost self-optimizing. That is lean.

      Let me follow up on a couple of other thoughts. One, I find your comment if delivering goods "just in time" would have induced a higher ROI in the Middle Ages, people would have done it then absolutely fantasticly naive. My friend, in the Middle Ages, people had lost the institutional knowledge developed by the Romans and others hundreds of years earlier that public sanitation is a really good thing. People had forgotten in the Dark Ages that burying your shit properly saves lives. Yeah, these people were all about optimizing ROR. This may seem like a digression, but I have a point: you seem to subscribe to the notion that people are paragons of reason, so as a consequence we inherently progress forward in a more efficient and enlightened manner over time. People, left to their own devices, will naturally migrate to optimal methods. This is crap. How many counter-examples should I provide? People behave in an approximately rational manner, but it is a loose approximation at best.

      Let me take one final shot in this installment that perhaps will help. Let's take your HQP ("High-Quality-Production") parody. Yes, I agree that the observation that you may be able to increase profit by improving quality is trivial. But here's the thing: If you developed a *method* that *minimized* the investment X necess

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
  24. In other news... by EvilNutSack · · Score: 1

    Air has been found to be important.

    Seriously, slow Friday?

    --
    --
  25. Sheesh by mkswap-notwar · · Score: 1

    And yet we're still way behind in adopting broadband compared to other countries.

    --
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
    1. Re:Sheesh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha that is corrent check the artictle about that on this site

    2. Re:Sheesh by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      Yeah, we're behind some other countries in broadband adoption. Oh look...we're way ahead of some other countries.

      Broadband is not the only way to access the Internet.

  26. Response to article in one word... by jacobcaz · · Score: 1

    DDDUUUUUHHHHHHHH!

  27. The Internet? by robca2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    WTF is the internet?

    1. Re:The Internet? by syd2000 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that hilarious reference to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Among other notable trivia, The word "f*ck" is used 228 times in the movie. Geez, the web is such a useful tool.

  28. conservative estimates by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 1

    Forrester Research, for example, predicted in August that broadband Internet access alone will more than double this decade, reaching 71 million U.S. households in 2010.

    This seems pretty conservative. With technologies like Wi-Max and Wi-Fi, and google rolling this out for free, I would imagine that almost everyone would have broadband access by 2010.

    --
    No Sigs!
  29. A Better Survey by Sweep+The+Leg · · Score: 0

    And how many of those want "a better internet?"

    And how many of those think that the internet is AOL?

    Finally, on a serious note how many here preferred the BBS era? And how many still are dreading running 32 nodes into their house?

    Thanks for all the fish, I'll stick with PCBoard, Wildcat, and my Blue Box *tells sister not to pickup phone*

  30. Newsflash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like this newsflash

  31. Web by certel · · Score: 1

    Could anyone imagine not using the internet? It has been a way of life. Although it has been very beneficial, I think it has increased the speed in our lifestyles because information is so readily available.

  32. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  33. turning into a way of life by DuctTape · · Score: 1
    One thing to consider is that the Internet is becoming so much a part of life, not only with the minor stuff like website URLs for movies, but being able to apply for benefits from natural disasters like Katrina. As soon as the government makes it so that you have to use the Internet for getting benefits, it is now (here comes the fun part) up to the government to make sure that everyone has access.

    Now whether that means that it will fall on the libraries to have public terminals (and if so, they need to be subsidized, otherwise they're bearing the brunt) or that the government puts up Internet cafes (without the cafe part), that's up to the government. But when the government saves money or streamlines operations to put things on the Internet, then the government best make sure that everyone has access. The word disenfranchise comes to mind, but that's for suffrage. But the effect is somewhat the same, almost equivalent to the old poll taxes.

    I'm somewhat surprised that not too many people haven't already been squawking about this. But the poor frequently don't have a loud enough voice.

    --
    Is this thing on? Hello?
  34. Well not for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I for one have never used the internet and don't plan to anytime soon.

    1. Re:Well not for me by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1
      Well I for one have never used the internet and don't plan to anytime soon.

      So you went directly to the Slashdot server to type that message?
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  35. As usual, both good and bad by Control+Group · · Score: 1

    Increasing importance of the internet to the average person is, in many respects, a good thing. It means a growing market, which attracts money, which drives innovation forward and prices downward (yes, you can argue that broadband is overpriced, but consider what you bay per Mbit down today as compared to what you would have paid per Mbit down 10 years ago). This is true for anything, of course, but it's more true for the internet: many of the advantages that can be provided by connectivity become more effective in more than direct proportion to the number of people connected.

    However, for people like myself (and probably a lot of /.ers), it's also bad. The more popular something becomes and the more money that's involved, the more heavily regulated it will be (by both governments and private organizations...Microsoft's position in re: desktop computing may not technically be regulatory, but it amounts to much the same thing), not to mention the more commercialized it becomes. To use a comparison that's been done to death already, it's the wild West all over again. Enough people move out west, and the freedoms/culture that made it initially attractive vanish.

    You can even see this, in microcosm, with /. Not that I'm a 5-digit UID, or anything, but even I remember a much different site. I won't make any claims that it was objectively better or worse, but it was better from my POV before there was a need for meta-moderation, before editorials started getting so slammed in comments that they went away, so on and so forth.

    *shrug*

    So the question is, where to next?

    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  38. Good/Bad? by monklegacy · · Score: 0
    In terms of economy and business this is good. The Internet has and will continue to offer a sort of global marketplace for consumers and businesses.

    In terms of culture and society we have the Internet as a "Melting pot" of sorts.

    In terms of Sci-Fi we are all becoming "assimilated". What I mean here is... Have you ever watched your friends playing video games and noticed the total picture of concentration on that television? Well, same goes for sitting at the computer. We all sit and stare at a screen, type and sometimes move the mouse. (in my mind's eye this is a little weird even though I spend 95% of my time on a computer)

    IMHO I really hope that we don't become too dependent on the Internet. I mean, what happens when the lines of communication go down?

  39. 40% makes it an "integral part"? by slavemowgli · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's just me, but 40% don't make it an "integral part" of the "American lifestyle" IMO. Outside of the fact that "America" is a bit bigger than you might think, anyway (what you probably mean is "US-American lifestyle"), 40%, well, just isn't that much, even if it's considerably more than in 1997. Once you go beyond 90%, we can start to talk about whether it's an "integral part".

    --
    quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
    1. Re:40% makes it an "integral part"? by Control+Group · · Score: 1

      what you probably mean is "US-American lifestyle"

      You just came here from Kuro5hin, didn't you?

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
  40. Damn! by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

    NOW we are in a "dot-boom". But we can't get much development capital, because of the "dot-bust". Triggered in part by that 2% figure.

    Bizzare. The hype was accurate (30% of people will now buy stuff on the Internet), riches are to be made, but you can't do it anymore.

    Ratboy.

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
  41. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  42. MOD PARENT UP. by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Well said, a govt. census is supposed to be about collecting mundane statistics for use in the public domain (eg: how big a shit pipe will we need in 10 years time for suburb X if current trends continue). It has nothing to do with "spectacular revelations".

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  43. Hang in there, I'm rooting 4 ya. by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "It will be a great day when I can make a comment on slashdot without one person dissecting information in it."

    It would also be quite an occasion to see someone admit they didn't think something through before posting.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  44. Withdraw by eheldreth · · Score: 1

    We had a snow storm this week and the cable(I have cable boradband) was out for 3 day's. I don't know if I could have survived much longer with out my internet. I wasn't realy woried though until the convulsions started.

    --
    The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum. - O'Toole's Corollary
  45. US = disgraceful internet infrastructre by blankoboy · · Score: 1

    The Internet plays a large role for US Citizens? Well, their government is doing a p*ss-poor job of developing the infrastructure. They are 10 years behind Japan and Korea in terms of the Internet.

  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  47. Many still use it very little... by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    From my own personal anecdotal research, I think many people still don't use the internet, or use it very little. Cell phones and text messaging seem to me to be used more.

    When I try to talk about the web/internet with many people I still get the glazed eye response. Sure, they use it occasionally and surf for "the basics", it seems to me many people are either technically daunted by browsers and the internet, or scared from the fear of pr0n/hax0rz.

    This isn't just a generational thing, from my perspective. I've been using computers since the late 80's, and I still run into Gen Z'ers who know very little about the web/computers.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  48. Cold Dead Fingers by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    If a new episode of Rome or Deadwood is one, don't even think about taking my teevee!

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  49. Comparison-Russia. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "And honestly it does not take long before you can easily justify the 30-50$ a month (I probably save that much JUST from the comparison shopping/rebate searches I can do online). "

    By downloading movies, music, games, and books one can easily justify the Internet fees.

    Anyway there's one nation that seems to be left off these "penetration" studies. A nation that's closer to the US in geography and population. That would be Russia.

  50. The B2B Is Not The Internet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately people are forgetting all the alternative ways of electronic communication that have NOTHING to do with the internet, except maybe using some of the protocols.

    Look up on the roof of some businesses sometimes. Those are VSATs. Also a lot of businesses used leased lines who's only connection with the internet is that they both go through the same company. There are even those using line-of-sight microwave dishes.

  51. Shocking Information!!! by ChreodeRiot · · Score: 1

    These guys are doing a heckuva job!

  52. The whole internet??? by design+by+michael · · Score: 1

    My parents got a broadband connection and rang me up.... "hey, we just got the Internet on our desktop today! All I have to do is click the blue 'E'." To which I replied, "The whole internet? How'd they fit all that on your desktop? That's amazing, Ma. Simply amazing."

    --
    401 - Attention span not found
  53. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  54. Uh?! by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

    Wait, wait, hold up.
    What's paper? Is it like a text viewer?

  55. Residents != Citizens by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

    The actual study was on internet usage by US residents - US households - not merely by citizens. They did break out ethnic groups - e.g. use in Asian households is higher than all other groups - but that includes both American and non-American families.

  56. Why does the Census have this info? by kalislashdot · · Score: 1

    The job of the Census is to count the people, nothing more, nothing less. This lame ass "survey" crap has got to stop.

  57. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  58. More News Flashes for the Monkeys in the newsroom by slappyjack · · Score: 1

    WITH factiods to help them on their way!

    Automobiles Play Large Role in American Life - The planning and layout of American cities has caused the AUTOMOBILE (sometimes also konwn as a "car") to pllay a large role in American life. Rich people drive better cars than poor people, and are less likely to take the bus from the suburbs to their jobs.

    People are Getting Older - Studies are comfirming that from the moment Americans are born, they continue to age without any slowing of getting older as time passes. marketers have taken to calling this segment of the population "Agers," and see them as a vastly untapped market. New Marketing initiatives are directed at placing small LCD advertising screens in individual Hospital incubators.

    In Las Vegas, Lots of People Gamble! - Studies have found that many people that travel to Las Vegas are spending their disposable income on the pasttime of gambling. Wealthier peoplpe tend to spend more money on gambling, and do it more often that poorer people. Officals released the following statement, "Its really, really interesting. We're totally flummoxed by this unexpected data."

    Wealthier Americans Have More Money - US Census reports show that the 50% of the people that make more money than the other 50% usually have more money and buy more expensive things. Trends show that 100% of the half of the wealthier americans will still be in the top half of people with more money.

    Puppies are Cute! - The US Census Bureau releases a report today finding that 97% of all second graders found puppies to be "cute" in a double-blind test. A full 83% of girls tested additionally made that liittle squealing sound when initially shown the test animals. Children that did not find the puppies cute were immediately detained and later sent to the TY Corporation (maker of "Beanie-Babies") for re-education.

    Journalism Degrees Given out Like Candy - With the need for more and more places to put advertising, so-called news outlets are clamoring for people to write "stories" that 30 years ago would get your typewriter taken away and your ass busted to the print shop. To fill the need for this constant generation of tripe, American colleges and universities have been filling the need by giving Journalism degrees to pretty much anyone that owns a pencil and one of them small notepads. "We blame FOX News," was the only statement released by the Soceity of American Journalism. In a side report, sensors indicate that the corpse loctated in the grave of Edward R. Murrow is reportedly spinning at a rate of roughly 2400 revolutions per second.

  59. Actually, these numbers are interesting... by Profmeister+3000 · · Score: 1

    Only around 2% of US retail activity is e-commerce. With less than 40 million households buying online per year, there's still plenty of headroom. This story ain't over yet.

    And who would have guessed Alaska could do such a good job resolving rural access issues? Definitely worth looking into.

  60. History in the Making by andrelix · · Score: 1

    I always wonder how other people in the world reacted when someone like Newton, Einstein, Da Vinci, etc, made history changing thoughts or inventions. Actually I wonder this about all great changes in history. I think I now understand it. Most people don't get it! Take for example the RIAA or the MPAA, they are so afraid of change that they are going to watch their whold infrastructure collapse. This is the exact same thing that is happening on the internet today with newsprint and eventually maybe even TV. DRM is going to drain us to a point where we completely abandon the things we use today like CD's and maybe even the current generation of MP3 players. The net is doing the same thing to newspapers and TV news. I just hope someday we get tired of the sensationalistic crap that is produced and do things that are more meaningful. All I have to say is, no shit, the world is changing and I would venture to guess that 40% is low as the kids of the 90's are starting to work their way into the employment world. We are watching history, enjoy it...

  61. torrent by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

    I'll seed a torrent if you promise to seed once you got it.

    --
    Sig: I stole this sig.