Re:Add feature when they can make them work.
on
Jobs Unfazed by Zune
·
· Score: 1
"Apples Strength is that they tend to only add features that people really need and can use."
Yeah, like the contacts feature in the iPod? People really need and can use that. How about an FM radio instead?
Who listens to radio these days? I have not listen to or owned a radio for over five years now. Why do I need to if there is free internet radio stations through iTunes and podcasts for "talk" radio? I'm about to pickup a splitter for my home theatre receiver from my cable provider just for kicks since I realized it has an FM tuner in it but I did not go out of my way to look for that feature.
"Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right..."
What evidence do you have to support that claim? Apple hasn't said anything to suggest that.
He is referring to how Apple waited to include video support until the low power portable video chipsets were mature and powerful enough and they had content lined up for the iTunes Store. Based on this past behavior, he is speculating that Apple will do the same thing with WiFi. I suspect that Apple will wait until they can use a low power WiFi "N" chipset.
Funny, I get the same feeling when reading supposedly "professional" journalists like John C. Dvorak or Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows except they are overly infatuated with MSFT.
Do you have to buy a mac mini? Supposedly, the iTV will work with any mac or windows PC running iTunes 7 or above. It is different from an Xbox360 and Windows media center in that you have to run "windows".
The mac or PC does not have to be in the same room as the iTV and your TV since it can stream via WiFi. What am I missing here?
Yeah. Unfortunately, this seems to be a common mistake with MSFT. They have been trying to shoehorn the windows start menu into Tablets, PDAs and PDA-sized devices for years.
They don't get that smaller devices need to have intuitive UIs specifically designed for the medium or you end up with user frustration from poor usability.
Here is an nice "hint" for you. If you have a windows near you at work, pull up the shades and let some of the light from the "day star" aka the sun. Alternatively, you could try turning on the overhead lights.
You will get a headache if you do not have sufficient lighting.
Maximize is just one example and I want it my way, not the what the developer thinks way. Besides it is just one example. What about the Home and End keys? Why does mac even ship with those? One would think that pressing Home key would take you to the beginning on the line in a textbox (like the Address Bar).
Well now you know how mac users feel when using windows at work.
As far as Spotlight (Google Desktop), Dashboard (Confabulator, aka Yahoo Widgets), been there, done that. Nice repackaging on existing technology. Spring loaded folders? You are kidding, right? Wasn't it in Mac OS 8?
Google desktop? Spotlight is not just a search engine but rather ties directly in the the filesystem at a very low level. Apple also provides an API for programs to incorporate Spotlight into their programs to search their own data structures. Confabulator (means someone who fabricates) was created by a guy that repackaged ideas from Stardock's Desktop X and what he worked on in the Copeland/Opendoc projects during his time at Apple. Spring loaded folders is a nice feature that came back to OS X in Panther but something like that is still not present in windows today.
Apart from the obvious user facing features, OS X provides drag and drop support virtually everywhere and a rich set of APIs for developer to create rich and dynamic programs with little effort.
Uh, dude. You are looking for a fullscreen button, not a maximize button. The green button is the maximize button. It "maximizes" space use for the content by looking at the width of the content and expanding the window to the minimum size required to display all of it horizontally and expands height-wise to the maximum height minus the menu and dock. The windows maximize button acts that way because, originally windows did not support overlaping windows and it was a poor multitasker.
Regardless, it's just a freaking button. How can a bloody button leave you underwhelmed? What about Spotlight, the Dashboard, smart folders and the spring loaded folders?
How can anyone take this seriously? Sales numbers are generally available from Apple and other manufacturers so it should not be difficult to figure it out. The number of hits on a number of websites have nothing directly to do with how many mac or what percentage of sales were macs for any given period.
Were they trying to figure out the total addressable market or the install base? Nobody is still selling Windows 98 for crying out loud. Regardless, their stats are meaningless even for that number.
"If you ask me, the strategy with Boot Camp was an attempt by Apple to go back to the days where they could say, "Look! Our computer is so much more powerful and flexible than a PC, you can even read Windows-formatted floppies on our computer, but you can't read Mac formatted floppies on a Windows machine!"
Not that that was ever much of anything but a flawed argument, based around, I imagine Apple's licensing policy for HFS"
PC's could not read mac floppies not only because of the file system difference but also because the 800k mac drives were variable speed IIRC and that is why they could store more on Double density than the PC 720k equivalent.
I know you are trolling but why do you have a problem with more flexibility? I like playing games in XP but I prefer OS X native software for everything else.
What you don't get is that Apple may one day to decide to maximize hardware numbers by chasing emphasizing sales to users who run Windows. In other words, one day Windows-running Mac owners may outnumber OS X-running Mac owners. Consider what happened to iPod firewire connectivity once it was clear that more Windows users own iPods than Mac users. I doubt we'll see firewire connections on future iPods and that was the direct result of there being no benefit to pleasing OS X-running users.
I speak not only as a mac user (who switched from window in 2002) but a windows software developer. If this was merely a numbers game as you suggest, all of the cross platform developers would have long ago left the mac platform and concentrated on windows. What people often forget is that software "sales" are what drive development, not marketshare numbers. The former is what provides income for a company whereas the latter is merely a metric of the number of sales of "machines" sold in a particular year or quarter. Unless a company's software is bundled with the majority of machines of a particular brand, those marketshare numbers are pretty much meaningless. Study after study has shown that windows users are more likely to pirate software rather than purchase it compared with mac users. It is also well known that the number of mac users (install base) in creative fields is fairly significant and this is what drives companies to continue to support photoshop on OS X as it accounts for a significant percentage of their sales.
Firewire? Remember the doom and gloom predictions that sparked about firewire disappearing with the release of the intel macs? Well I guess they were wrong. I use my firewire port on my MBP all the time with my HDV camera. Firewire is here to stay for video work.
I happen to run windows in bootcamp for a few windows only games that I enjoy but the majority of my time is spent in OS X were I feel most productive. I look at windows as my Xbox that I go into when I want to stop what I'm doing and waste my time. I think you will find that the majority of people that get an Intel mac will end up booting into windows less and less as they get used to OS X. Those "windows only" mac users that buy macs for the "shiny" hardware are probably an even smaller niche than people who by a mac to run linux.
I think you are underestimating the appeal of the the Core APIs to developers and the appeal of the differing culture of mac users who tend to buy more of their software compared with windows users. The latter group tend to tolerate spyware and adware in order to get "free" software whereas the former group have near zero tolerance for such things.
You have just described the platform into which Apple's switch to Intel has transformed the Macintosh. The possibility that current OS X developers (and especially OSX/Windows developers) may stop targeting Intel-based OS X in favor of Intel-based Windows is real. Basically, Apple now makes Windows boxen that may be the most predictable in terms of hardware configuration. People pit Apple against Microsoft but in my opinion, the real war is now Apple vs. Dell.
Your post perfectly illustrates how the majority of slashdotters simply do not get the appeal of the mac platform. What makes OS X attractive is the OS and the software. No doubt, the "just works" synergy from Apple hardware running an OS from Apple does contribute the the appeal but the "shiny hardware" is a myth.
Do you think Adobe and other cross platform developers target both OSes for their health? Do they do it for fun? Are all the mac users on macs because of the shiny hardware? No. It is mostly about the OS and what it provides in terms of a user experience and what it provides developers in Core APIs.
I would suggest reading up on OS X on the developer site. Read up on Core Audio, Core Data, Core Image, Core Video and the new Core Animation framework. Before the.NET framework was 1.0, Apple had "frameworks" galore for developers to develop against.
To try and drive the point home, I can create a webkit web browser using just interface builder without writing a line of code. Apple truly provides you with drag and drop and point and click prototyping of your UI.
People on trains? Are you kidding me? Those people are commuting too and from work. They are not interested in sharing music. The reason why they might listen to music is to unwind and separate from the throng of people around them. It gives them an illusion of privacy to be alone with their music and collect their thoughts.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. There already is a way to share music socially, it's called a night club or bar. There is also a great way to talk to people in the same room as you, it's called "talking".
I too predict limited appeal for these devices at least outside of Japan. The Japanese tend to be into talking to each other with devices but people in the Americas and Europe like to socialize the old fashioned way.
Well apparently you do not need firewire but there are people that do video editing that like to have Firewire for the iLink connection to their DV and HDV cameras. I am one of those people. Also, firewire is faster in some real world situations with hard drives than USB2.
I can play all the games I would want to play in OS X and windows with my MBP.
This translates into: I only buy and am interested in games I know are compatible and will work with my existing hardware without the game turning into a swap fest and a slide show. Or you only play a few games to pass time.
Troll on pal. The Macbook "Pro" comes with and ATI RadeonX1600 which is perfectly capable of running F.E.A.R and Oblivion let alone fun games like Empire at War, The Command and Conquer Series and FarCry. I have and play the latter games.
I do other things with my laptop besides games. If games are the sole focus of your life, well that is really sad actually.
Why is everyone assuming that the corporate market has to be the same as the home market? I remember the people talking for years about how they needed to have the same kind of computer at home as they do at work so they could bring work home. But I have to ask, do normal people really bring their work home? If they do, do they really need to use their home computer or can they connect to work via Terminal server or Citrix?
When I look at the home market, I cannot figure out why everyone tries to shoehorn a "business" PC into the home. Why did the IBM PC and compatibles take over the home? It's not like they were better suited to the home compared with the Commodore Amiga and Atari ST. If fact, they were the least suited to "home" applications.
Different strokes for different folks. If you are looking for a lower end prosumer desktop, one might come out soon. The iMac is a pretty good value. On the downside, it is not as expandable or customizable as a desktop tower. On the upside, it is packed with a lot of value and you can plug in an external monitor for extra spanned desktop space.
I understand that some people like to tinker with their machines as a hobby or choose what CPU they want in their machines. However, for the majority of customers, the CPU brand does not matter and having the latest and greatest GPU does not matter either.
I can play all the games I would want to play in OS X and windows with my MBP. I'm perfectly happy with it but as always, YMMV.
You are fucking clueless. Nobody gives a shit if you built your systems. The rest of us have jobs and we can afford to buy our tools. Do you see people building their own chain saws or smelting their own hammers? Computers are just tools but the hardware is completely useless without useful software.
If you find Ubuntu capable of running "all" of the software that "you need", good for you. Ask the average joe though and they will give you a blank stare if you mention linux. You may also find that the average joe does not give a shit about the GPL if they are not able to run the software they want or need to use.
Fuck myself? No, I'd rather fuck some hot chick.
PS. Your mother wants you to move out of her basement and get a fucking job already.
Did you guys notice the growth in the number of developers for the OS X platform during the keynote? Look at the frameworks introduced in Tiger and the new ones previewed in Leopard. Doesn't anyone look at those developer features and dream of what types of cool apps that could be created with them?
There has been talk of the elusive "killer app" for years on the internet but I believe that these new frameworks (Core Animation), existing frameworks (Core Image/Video, Data and Audio) will usher in a true "killer app" that developers will struggle in vain to reproduce on windows and other linux. Some may manage to create a pale copy of it but it will not be so tightly integrated into the OS and you will not be able to easily share data with other apps. I would also venture that it would take 10X as much time, money and manpower to develop.
We can all "oooh and ahhh" all we we want about the flashy features in OS X or Vista how easy it is to implement innovative applications in a particular OS will determine which one has the attention of the public and media IMO.
I think the keynote only scratched the surface of the power the collaboration features in Leopard will have on the development landscape.
Sorry but you swallowed the "Dell is always cheaper" koolaid. The quadro card is only a little bit more expensive than the default Apple card and it has 128MB ram instead of 256MB.
Configure a Mac Pro and Dell with the same specs including an upgrade to a more expensive Quadro which Apple does provide as an option. Notice the price? The Mac Pro is still cheaper and it includes more media software. Now add three year Apple care or Call Apple up and inquire about Procare. Is the the Dell cheaper? By how much? Is it 50 bucks or less? Is it really cheaper when you consider the bundled software?
The low end quadro is irrelevant and probably no more powerful than the gamer card even with CAD apps. I think you fell for marketing names and buzzwords.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, like the contacts feature in the iPod? People really need and can use that. How about an FM radio instead?
Who listens to radio these days? I have not listen to or owned a radio for over five years now. Why do I need to if there is free internet radio stations through iTunes and podcasts for "talk" radio? I'm about to pickup a splitter for my home theatre receiver from my cable provider just for kicks since I realized it has an FM tuner in it but I did not go out of my way to look for that feature.
"Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right..."
What evidence do you have to support that claim? Apple hasn't said anything to suggest that.
He is referring to how Apple waited to include video support until the low power portable video chipsets were mature and powerful enough and they had content lined up for the iTunes Store. Based on this past behavior, he is speculating that Apple will do the same thing with WiFi. I suspect that Apple will wait until they can use a low power WiFi "N" chipset.
Funny, I get the same feeling when reading supposedly "professional" journalists like John C. Dvorak or Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows except they are overly infatuated with MSFT.
The mac or PC does not have to be in the same room as the iTV and your TV since it can stream via WiFi. What am I missing here?
That would be "As the Apple Turns II" at: http://appleturns.blogspot.com/ or "Crazy Apple Rumors" at: http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/.
I see, so you are not out for self gratification but rather trying to perform a public service for "free" eh?
They don't get that smaller devices need to have intuitive UIs specifically designed for the medium or you end up with user frustration from poor usability.
You will get a headache if you do not have sufficient lighting.
Well now you know how mac users feel when using windows at work.
As far as Spotlight (Google Desktop), Dashboard (Confabulator, aka Yahoo Widgets), been there, done that. Nice repackaging on existing technology. Spring loaded folders? You are kidding, right? Wasn't it in Mac OS 8?
Google desktop? Spotlight is not just a search engine but rather ties directly in the the filesystem at a very low level. Apple also provides an API for programs to incorporate Spotlight into their programs to search their own data structures. Confabulator (means someone who fabricates) was created by a guy that repackaged ideas from Stardock's Desktop X and what he worked on in the Copeland/Opendoc projects during his time at Apple. Spring loaded folders is a nice feature that came back to OS X in Panther but something like that is still not present in windows today.
Apart from the obvious user facing features, OS X provides drag and drop support virtually everywhere and a rich set of APIs for developer to create rich and dynamic programs with little effort.
Regardless, it's just a freaking button. How can a bloody button leave you underwhelmed? What about Spotlight, the Dashboard, smart folders and the spring loaded folders?
Were they trying to figure out the total addressable market or the install base? Nobody is still selling Windows 98 for crying out loud. Regardless, their stats are meaningless even for that number.
So you would prefer stretched pixel (anamorphic) to square pixels?
Not that that was ever much of anything but a flawed argument, based around, I imagine Apple's licensing policy for HFS"
PC's could not read mac floppies not only because of the file system difference but also because the 800k mac drives were variable speed IIRC and that is why they could store more on Double density than the PC 720k equivalent.
I know you are trolling but why do you have a problem with more flexibility? I like playing games in XP but I prefer OS X native software for everything else.
I speak not only as a mac user (who switched from window in 2002) but a windows software developer. If this was merely a numbers game as you suggest, all of the cross platform developers would have long ago left the mac platform and concentrated on windows. What people often forget is that software "sales" are what drive development, not marketshare numbers. The former is what provides income for a company whereas the latter is merely a metric of the number of sales of "machines" sold in a particular year or quarter. Unless a company's software is bundled with the majority of machines of a particular brand, those marketshare numbers are pretty much meaningless. Study after study has shown that windows users are more likely to pirate software rather than purchase it compared with mac users. It is also well known that the number of mac users (install base) in creative fields is fairly significant and this is what drives companies to continue to support photoshop on OS X as it accounts for a significant percentage of their sales.
Firewire? Remember the doom and gloom predictions that sparked about firewire disappearing with the release of the intel macs? Well I guess they were wrong. I use my firewire port on my MBP all the time with my HDV camera. Firewire is here to stay for video work.
I happen to run windows in bootcamp for a few windows only games that I enjoy but the majority of my time is spent in OS X were I feel most productive. I look at windows as my Xbox that I go into when I want to stop what I'm doing and waste my time. I think you will find that the majority of people that get an Intel mac will end up booting into windows less and less as they get used to OS X. Those "windows only" mac users that buy macs for the "shiny" hardware are probably an even smaller niche than people who by a mac to run linux.
I think you are underestimating the appeal of the the Core APIs to developers and the appeal of the differing culture of mac users who tend to buy more of their software compared with windows users. The latter group tend to tolerate spyware and adware in order to get "free" software whereas the former group have near zero tolerance for such things.
Your post perfectly illustrates how the majority of slashdotters simply do not get the appeal of the mac platform. What makes OS X attractive is the OS and the software. No doubt, the "just works" synergy from Apple hardware running an OS from Apple does contribute the the appeal but the "shiny hardware" is a myth.
Do you think Adobe and other cross platform developers target both OSes for their health? Do they do it for fun? Are all the mac users on macs because of the shiny hardware? No. It is mostly about the OS and what it provides in terms of a user experience and what it provides developers in Core APIs.
I would suggest reading up on OS X on the developer site. Read up on Core Audio, Core Data, Core Image, Core Video and the new Core Animation framework. Before the .NET framework was 1.0, Apple had "frameworks" galore for developers to develop against.
To try and drive the point home, I can create a webkit web browser using just interface builder without writing a line of code. Apple truly provides you with drag and drop and point and click prototyping of your UI.
People on trains? Are you kidding me? Those people are commuting too and from work. They are not interested in sharing music. The reason why they might listen to music is to unwind and separate from the throng of people around them. It gives them an illusion of privacy to be alone with their music and collect their thoughts.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. There already is a way to share music socially, it's called a night club or bar. There is also a great way to talk to people in the same room as you, it's called "talking".
I too predict limited appeal for these devices at least outside of Japan. The Japanese tend to be into talking to each other with devices but people in the Americas and Europe like to socialize the old fashioned way.
Seriously folks. There are no distinctions between the current 32bit systems and future 64bit systems. All video will play just fine on any mac.
I have full HD resolution video clips on my Macbook Pro and there are no resolution based DRM restrictions in OS X.
Well apparently you do not need firewire but there are people that do video editing that like to have Firewire for the iLink connection to their DV and HDV cameras. I am one of those people. Also, firewire is faster in some real world situations with hard drives than USB2.
This translates into: I only buy and am interested in games I know are compatible and will work with my existing hardware without the game turning into a swap fest and a slide show. Or you only play a few games to pass time.
Troll on pal. The Macbook "Pro" comes with and ATI RadeonX1600 which is perfectly capable of running F.E.A.R and Oblivion let alone fun games like Empire at War, The Command and Conquer Series and FarCry. I have and play the latter games.
I do other things with my laptop besides games. If games are the sole focus of your life, well that is really sad actually.
When I look at the home market, I cannot figure out why everyone tries to shoehorn a "business" PC into the home. Why did the IBM PC and compatibles take over the home? It's not like they were better suited to the home compared with the Commodore Amiga and Atari ST. If fact, they were the least suited to "home" applications.
I understand that some people like to tinker with their machines as a hobby or choose what CPU they want in their machines. However, for the majority of customers, the CPU brand does not matter and having the latest and greatest GPU does not matter either.
I can play all the games I would want to play in OS X and windows with my MBP. I'm perfectly happy with it but as always, YMMV.
If you find Ubuntu capable of running "all" of the software that "you need", good for you. Ask the average joe though and they will give you a blank stare if you mention linux. You may also find that the average joe does not give a shit about the GPL if they are not able to run the software they want or need to use.
Fuck myself? No, I'd rather fuck some hot chick.
PS. Your mother wants you to move out of her basement and get a fucking job already.
There has been talk of the elusive "killer app" for years on the internet but I believe that these new frameworks (Core Animation), existing frameworks (Core Image/Video, Data and Audio) will usher in a true "killer app" that developers will struggle in vain to reproduce on windows and other linux. Some may manage to create a pale copy of it but it will not be so tightly integrated into the OS and you will not be able to easily share data with other apps. I would also venture that it would take 10X as much time, money and manpower to develop.
We can all "oooh and ahhh" all we we want about the flashy features in OS X or Vista how easy it is to implement innovative applications in a particular OS will determine which one has the attention of the public and media IMO.
I think the keynote only scratched the surface of the power the collaboration features in Leopard will have on the development landscape.
Configure a Mac Pro and Dell with the same specs including an upgrade to a more expensive Quadro which Apple does provide as an option. Notice the price? The Mac Pro is still cheaper and it includes more media software. Now add three year Apple care or Call Apple up and inquire about Procare. Is the the Dell cheaper? By how much? Is it 50 bucks or less? Is it really cheaper when you consider the bundled software?
The low end quadro is irrelevant and probably no more powerful than the gamer card even with CAD apps. I think you fell for marketing names and buzzwords.
I hate to break it to you but the starting config Mac Pro will ship out faster (1-2 business days) than if you configured the Dell to match the specs.