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Microsoft leaks Zune Details in FCC filing
cnet-declan writes "One of my colleagues at CNET News.com has picked up on a filing that Microsoft made yesterday with the FCC. Our article reports that Microsoft's Zune media player (the iPod rival discussed before on Slashdot) is going to have features such as creating mobile social networks and streaming music to nearby friends or strangers. It's going to support the 802.11b and 802.11g wireless standards, have a 30GB hard drive, support music, movies, and photos, and have a 3-inch screen. Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?"
Or maybe someone can figure out how to broadcast images to all nearby Zunes with a linux app, so when I drive down the street or ride the train with my laptop I could flood all the nearby Zunes with goatse images. "Awww look someone is sending me a cute puppy picture....augggghhhhh"
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
30 minutes of battery life?
Many challengers to the mighty Pod have come; all have gone away, weeping in the night like chastened schoolboys. This too shall pass.
if anything else, it's all this hype that's being generated about a possible iPod killer that'll make or break ms's Zune.
i mean, has any other MP3 player gotten this much press coverage as a direct competitor to the ipod?
I've been at Microsoft, I've worked at Microsoft. This Zune may be the hit of the century on Microsoft campus. Too bad that won't be enough to sustain a profitable market for the Zune.
I have visions of geeks, sitting around the room, typing furiously at their keyboards, IM'ing with each other, in the same frigging room! Because they can!
And now, I envision those same people, sitting around with wireless mp3 (not) players, sharing each other's music wirelessly, because they can! That's not how it works for the general population. The distance to which these devices can communicate as peers limits their usefulness as social devices, i.e., the people are all going to be in the same room! I.E., they can plug their iPods into the stereo. And, at the same time will be able to talk to each other.
Apple got it right (even though it's not for me) with iTunes and the iPod. Clever marketing, sexy device (the Zune's not looking so sexy to me), and lots of social advertising. The iPod is the thing. The Zune isn't nor will it be.
The only distinguishing feature of the Zune is its wireless capability. How many of you have ever had non-stop continuous hassle free wireless experiences? I mean non-stop as in music streaming... I use it all the time with Squeezebox with the wink and nod that I will get a hiccup now and then. But, for a device that's moving?, a device that's likely to be hugely underpowered to support signal, especially transmission?. Wireless: a distinguishing feature, but a problematic one.
Looking at the company info on Microsoft, I'm guessing there'll be sales of about 60,000 Zunes.
MAybe, until the next generation iPods are released at least.
This is not the greatest
The seamless integration between the iPod and iTunes are its biggest selling point. The hardware is cool but integration is what made members of my family buy the iPod. There are many people that use it as an mp3 player but the hundreds of millions of songs being sold on iTune attest to the formidable platform that Apple has put forth. I would like to hear more on what Zune will be connecting to for media.
With the features they're packing in, it doesn't sound like the battery will last all that long. Not only that, but it's going to end up competing with cell phones as well as iPods.
iDon't Think so..
Why do people mention the screen size so often without talking resolution? I've seen some extremely compact screens (the Sony ultra-mobile pc is the most dense I've seen at about 12cm and 1024 pixels across!) I'd like to see a screen like that on a phone or device like this. Resolution is the number one problem when using a portable device I've noticed--at least with my HTC Wizard (320x240 pocketpc phone).
Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?
not for me... i would also like a large price cut, please
let's say 1/3 of ipod price mhmm?
Let the electronic infection orgy begin!
I just don't have the time,or patience, to deal with my music player crashing
because someone sent me a virus masquerading as an audio file.
I'm assuming of course that this MS device will be running MS software, and be subject to all the
nasty goodies that windows brings home from the network.
Steve Balmer in silhouette with a glowing cord doing his monkey dance.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Funny, after first reading:
"Microsoft's Zune media player is going to have features such as creating mobile social networks and streaming music to nearby friends or strangers"
I thought, how on earth will MS get away with allowing people to share music with one another, given the way they've bowed to industry pressure regarding HDCP on 32-bit Vista? Then I read the article, which only mentions "promotional copies of songs, albums and playlists,". This is hardly the same thing as unfettered sharing, and seems pretty limiting... practically pointless, IMHO.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Even Microsoft says that they won't be competitive with iPod for at least 5 years (and I think that's overly optimistic). iPod has such a large brandname recognition; it'll take long time to compete against that.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Wifi. More space than a Nomad.
:)
Sorry, still lame
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
OK, so you can share with "nearby friends or strangers." Am I the only one that started thinking back to toothing? I've got this crude mental image of hormone-crazed teenyboppers or /. readers creating their own songs that have alluring names for strangers to pick up on and listen to, directing them to the person with the whatever-team ball cap at the other end of the subway car.
An Ipod killer it will not be, the Ipod is in the trenches, it's like the popcorn husk that gets stuck between your teeth... No matter what cool features they shove into this thing it won't be able to undo or even appreicably dent the Ipod market (look at creative)(also, is fashionable and a sign of status to have those white ear buds hanging out of your ears)... also, Zune = virus central (it's an M$ product after all, people just can't seem to help themselves) and making the thing wireless and whatever else they thing is a good idea just makes it all the easier - the zuner it comes the zuner it will go...
Help test the
but I'm looking forward to picking up one for $5 at a garage sale here in Seattle.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If Company A uses DRM a, company M uses DRM m, company S uses DRM s and company C uses DRM c,
then to get the most music coverage, Music would need to use no DRM at all, then it can be played on all players.
It is hard to have a standard DRM, since by nature it is secret.
Along another train of thought... I guess this is what the MS patent posted earlier today is all about... controlling who uses up the bandwidth on your device when social networking.
Thinking along these lines... what MS REALLY needs to do is to create a way for the devices to share music with each other; first 30 secs are free... if someone wants to copy the entire song over, MS bills their credit card, and the person gets a DRMed copy of the song locked to their device.
If this device can set up ad-hoc social networks and allow users within that network to share things with each other, I wonder how the RIAA/MPAA is going to react when they realize one person bought a song or video, but over a million have that exact same copy of that song thanks to the way the Zune works?
First thing I think of when I see wireless networking with the ability to share things with others is "What kinda stuff do they have that I want, and can get without having to pay for it?"
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I see a new business, though: Set up a wifi base with a fair amount of power. Send ads to everybody who passes with a Zune. Yeah, I can see it already. No, that doesn't make me want a Zune over an iPod. I get enough advertising in my day already, thanks.
I didn't see "cool" listed anywhere. Without that feature, how can it unseat the iPod? I hope this doesn't mean that they are planning to hire Paris Hilton to say "That's Hot".
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It really depends on the hardware. Have you bought MS Wireless mice or similar items recently?
But it might drive Apple to add some new neat features to future ipods.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The iPod is "KISS" Keep it simple stupid. That's the beauty. The Video iPod is a bit of an exception, but then the majority of iPod sales are for the classic design that "just works". Not to mention there are no "digital rights" (or make it difficult to use your own music) features for many of the formats on the iPod (.mp3 for example). I'd venture to guess that Microsoft will enforce "digital rights".
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - The Celtic - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
SCAM
I think you're onto something!
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
"It's going to support the 802.11b and 802.11g wireless standards, have a 30GB hard drive, support music, movies, and photos, and have a 3-inch screen. Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?"
And with a standard battery it will last 6 minutes so you can get in one complete song.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Hmmm. Now it may be able to get away with this safely, but why does Microsoft Product + wireless + sharing strike fear into my heart?
Sounds like a recipe for viruses and malware to me. How about people setting broadcast hotspots to spew advertisement at your device should it become popular?
I have held out a long time hoping a wifi iPod would be introduced. Unfortunately I doubt the Zune will fill my desires, not least of all because of AAC compatibility.
My current desire for a portable music player is fairly weak - it is a nice luxury, but I can live without it. However, I do have a scenario in which I would definitely want one: with wifi integrated into the player and Airport Express compatibility. I would use the player as a regular portable device, especially in the car, but when I got home, click click and it connects to my Airport Express network and starts streaming to whichever speakers I select. As I move from room to room I pick up the player and switch airex receivers, and take the player with me - there would be no need for a remote because the player is the remote. Genius!
If only this fantasy player of mine existed. *sigh* (hint, hint, AAPL)
RTFM; please, I beg you.
My wife and I already plan on buying a pair of these. Finally we will have a way to communicate over that distance from my end of the couch to hers. No more verbal arguments about which satellite channel to watch.
Apple has a secret. Their mass-appeal toys are simple. The first ipods did one thing, music. The competitors crammed music and audio recording and yada yada yada...
The second ipod does music and videos. Not all the codecs mind you, but what percentage of regular users know what a codec is? They just know the icons with play buttons on them aren't just big pictures, they are videos and should play when clicked. The competition now steps it up a notch and does audio, video, fm recording (and broadcasting), usb mass storage, touch screens, vga screens, bluetooth, etc. But of those things, usrs only know what they know... so most of the features go unused. Users do know ipods do video though...
The next ipod incarnation will add another feature. It will be a feature people actually want / need / will use. Perhaps it's wireless sync with their home pc (with included iWiFiDock). Other toys *ahem* mp3 players will continue to blossom with features, but most people will not care.
Microsoft's new DAP/DVP/social networking toys will surely get some people interested, but really, who sits in a room full of strangers now and actively looks around for people to meet and talk to, speaking to 6 or 8 at a time? Is that going to be a selling point to someone who doesn't even understand how that technology works, why they would want to do it and what kind of other people would be doing the same thing? Besides a singles party or a high school, who will whip this device out to bandaid their social ineptness?
Don't get me wrong, if I had one I'd try it out, but I will never pay money for one. My VGA pocket pc with 8GB flash card plays full screen video for several hours in virtually all formats, about every audio format, and it has games on it so I can keep myself entertained when I'm with the in-laws.
And just so everyone knows, I do not like ipods. I despise them. And I actually do use features like bluetooth and fm record. My favorite DVP/DAP player at the moment (on paper) is the IUBI from Korea. XVID, touch screen and a big HDD. It looks simple, isn't to big, and it has a lot of features. If I could just figure out how to get one shipped to the US that would be great.
Funnypics
You must lead a very sad life. Plus, nothing screams, "Mug me!" like a pair of Apple ear buds in your ears.
My iAudio X5L already has 30GB, photo and video display. It also plays OGG and FLAC, which I suspect the masses don't care about. They do, however, care if their MP3 player is a fashion item or not (which is why so many people advertise to muggers by walking everywhere with their player out in their hand), and let's face it, one thing Microsoft doesn't have is Apple's aura of letting you be cool and different, just like everyone else.
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
Microsoft's iPod, like their Playstation, is all about playing to a specific niche. There is a teensy group of people who really can get excited about getting elaborate wireless media networks together all over their house based around their PC, and to whom the idea of an entire house full of devices running various forms of Windows is met with the response not of distant dread, but an "oh, neat!". This group isn't all that big. But they're clearly willing and able to spend lots of money on PC peripherals, from video cards to media extenders, and Microsoft is doing everything they can to get every last cent out of this niche market. As a bonus, this crowd is disproportionately vocal on the internet, so Microsoft gets to present the appearance of great success even if the sales aren't all that high, so long as they've made this niche happy.
This niche is what the XBox 360 was aimed at, and it's what the Zune is aimed at now. Microsoft is getting very good at making this niche very happy. I expect Microsoft has a great chance of selling a Zune to everybody who bought an XBox 360 at launch, even if absolutely no one else on earth.
when they come out with the 120GB version. Wireless is nice, but it has less space than my Nomad! No really, that's half the space my Zen has. They need at least a 60gb model, even Apple has one, but then most people with the current 60gb players won't want to change.
Typical that their media buzz is all about the wireless feature, and typical that their wireless feature comes pre-subverted (wireless sharing of "promotional material") in a way that makes it attractive to advertisers and content providers, not to the buying public. Because that's the way Microsoft does business; the way it always has. It extracts profit from its partners and subordinates, not its customers.
You can expect MS money to go pouring down into this product like a waterfall, hammering the Zune into the marketplace with all the subtlety of the Iraq invasion ... so Microsoft can show those sales numbers to record and movie studios and open the bidding for store space as high as possible. Perhaps it will, one day, be just about as profitable for them as the X-BOX.
Of course, if they follow the X-BOX route even more closely, they'll sell the Zune at a massive loss just to get it out there. In that case, us customers don't really lose. Can't complain about that.
I actually like the idea of being able to share songs from my mp3 player. Other posters have suggested that sharing content would be limited to streaming or previews. I hate to think so, but it would make more sense for Microsoft to restrict the sharing functionality in such a way. Microsoft is very keen to form partnerships with the content industry. This has been demonstrated through their investment in DRM technologies such as MS's Janus platform for content sales and secure distribution), Windows Media Player, "Plays for Sure" and the DRM restrictions in the Media Centre and Xbox 360 platform. Although, even if it wasn't restricted in some way, I do see the wireless sharing aspect of the Zune to be a cool, but minor feature. When people are listening to their MP3 players, they're *not* communicating with other people! You don't know what their listening to and they probably don't know if you where in the slightest bit interested! Also, without looking at the screen, how would you know that someone wants to share songs? An audible alarm would be the obvious solution but that would just be nasty. Many people keep their players in pockets, covers, bags or armbands whilst their using them. Who walks around staring at their mp3 player all the time?! This feature would really only come into it's own when you wanted to trade songs with friends. Especially in a similar social context to the way that people trade ringtones, "Have you heard this? Do you want me to send it to you"
Just my $0.02...
how do you do that and not see the image yourself?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Zune sounds great if you love DRM. Let's not forget that services like (the new) Napster permit free downloads of songs, producing the illusion of free music for a monthly fee. Of course this "sharing" relies on the DRM controls in Media Player 10 so you can't actually share them with anyone. I have to suspect that any sharing capabilities on Zune will be crippled, but streaming wirelessly to nearby devices may be an allowable feature (in the eyes of the content industry) so long as nobody can record it...
The features, at least at first glance are intriguing. At second glance, I wonder how useful the DRM'd version of music sharing will be... "Thanks alot for sharing that music with me, now how would you feel about giving me the few bux you just conviced me to spend." And questions about "promotional copies," security, power, range, and audio quality are valid concerns. Hey, maybe Microsoft got it all right, and people will love the experience (which means no problems, etc.) I mean, Microsoft has a long history of customer satisfaction, right?
No, my biggest argument against the "unseat Apple" question is that this device is coming so late in the game already won (set and match) by Apple. People outside of this web site (and maybe a few others) don't even call their PMP's "Personal Music Players." They call MP3 players "iPods." Many average Joes don't even know there are alternatives to the iPod. And nothing in this device will be enough to unseat that engrained notion in the general public's head. I'm not saying no one will ever unseat Apple's iPod, but this device will certainly not do it in one swoop.
Why support the now quite obsolete 802.11b standard, unless that support isn't already automatically incorporated into the 802.11g standard? Are there tons of 802.11b standard MP3 players already running around out there that Zune needs to be compatible with?
And if 802.11b standard support is part of the 802.11g standard, then why bother to mention it separately?
And if you don't enable WAP on your connection, will the RIAA sue you for filesharing un-DRMed music?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
.... MS Zune will also let you stream viruses to upto 4 Zunes at a time. If the receiver doesn't accept the virus, a chair will come out flying through the screen.
I don't want a signature.
Flamebait, yes. Worthy of a few +1's? yes.
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
One consistent trap that people fall into in all areas is "fighting the last war" - thinking of what you would have needed to win in a previous battle that you lost (or what somebody else who lost would have needed to win) and trying to win the next one by providing that, all the while forgetting that the victor is probably not resting on his or her laurels.
That's what Microsoft is doing here. This might have been enough to defeat the Video iPod, but that was the last device. This will - at most - be on par with Apple's new offering, and probably beat by it. It looks like Apple's new iPod will have an even bigger screen than this, by moving the touchpad to the back. That plus WiFi will probably be enough to keep this at bay, not to mention any other extra features Apple might add.
Overall, there is no clear "killer app" that makes me think this will be successful. The Zune looks fully competent, but you need more than competence to defeat a de facto standard. I don't know about you, but the prospect of being able to borrow a song from a friend for a day before it is cancelled provided we are both using Zunes doesn't get me very excited. Nor do I have any desire to beam random files to strangers. The ability to work with social networks might be cool but there are no details on that, and I'm not going to get my hopes up.
There is of course an easier way to defeat a de facto standard - beat them on price. If this were offered for a very low price, for example $150 or $200 for a 30GB model, they would steal a lot of market share from Apple and make up the money with future models once people warmed to their product. That's why companies call them "entry models." But they are charging $300 for this, so there is no monetary reason for anybody to take a "step down" from the iPod, which is the way any non-iPod device is currently perceived, fair or not.
Plugin support for other codecs. If the Zune audio player allows me to add in Real Audio and other codec plugins like Ogg and FLAC I will definitely buy one. If the Zune is anything like Winamp I am sold.
Steve
With the device's wireless networking abilities turned on, people can send and receive photos, as well as "promotional copies of songs, albums and playlists," according to the filing.
With the way Micro$oft sets defaults on security issues, these things will be shipped wide open. Your music will be interrupted by "Drive-by" spam. Every major box store will be streaming commercials to these poor wretches.
And when the script kiddies get a hold of it, millions of portable zombie-bots! Blue screen of death right in the middle of your jam session.
Forget trying escape in your car from the loud bass in the car next door. Thanks to this gizmo, they can beam it to your Zune!
And think, you can broadcast your kiddie pron to all the highschool cuties. The predators rejoyce!
No thanks, Redmond.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
I don't care too much if it overthrows the iPod, I just hope it gives Apple a kick up the arse to actually do something innovative. Their monopoly (both hardware and contentwise) bores me.
The wireless thing is a definite plus though. I listen to my ipod as I walk to and from work, and it mainly lives in my laptop bag. My itunes gets my podcasts, but I keep on forgetting to synch, or forgetting to put it back in my bag afterwards - annoying.
If the Zune can synch wirelessly, or just connect to my Wifi directly, that's a definite plus.
...does it run linux?
I thought not.
I think most people won't use all the functionality that zune offers. As was mentioned here on slashdot before, it's better to have a device that does one thing, and does it good (e.g. ipod in this case), then a device that does many things, and does some or all of them crappy.
- Built-in speakers (headphones-free)
- More HD space (100GB+)
- Larger screen (say 15" or 17")
- Enough CPU and RAM to handle real world apps (maybe Turion 64x2 with 2GB RAM?)
- DVD Burner (so you can share movies you made with your Zune)
- 12-cell Lithium Ion battery so it can last more than an hour or two.
Zune has a real opportunity here. Sure, the iPod dominates the market, but I think a lot of people are frustrated with its lack of ability to author DVDs, host webservers or calculate Mersenne primes.If we start buying CDs then the terrorists have already won.
I personally think its so sad how M$ keeps copying off Apple, with Vista they have "gadgets" which are basically M$'s version of Widgets. Now they want to make something similar to the ipod?!!!! Sure, wireless is cool, but anything with M$ aint...but can it run Linux?
Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?
... but Bill Gates and his company are not cool. They are, in fact, the antithesis of cool in spite of billions of marketing dollars spent in futile attempts to counteract that perception. Now, if G&B would step out of the limelight, Microsoft might, just might, mind you, manage to capture some of Apple's coolness. At a minimum that would mean replacing Gates with someone far more charismatic, or perhaps Bill Gates killing Steve Jobs and eating him in order to gain his power.
Nope. iPods aren't sold just on functionality, or even mostly for that reason. They are sold because they're cool. Apple is cool, Steve Jobs is cool
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
If Microsoft can make people strike up conversations with the strangers around them they don't deserve a business success with the Zune, they deserve the next 100 Nobel Peace Prizes.
You can't see the looming hubbub? Some lurker around a school yard, posing as a 13 year old, beaming Michael Jackson tunes to children .. luring one into near the bushes. Then the local parents groups and sheriff's departments and everyone else gets into wanting to monitor or restrict these things, yada yada yada.
It's not a problem until the first time it happens.
Will there be some form of parental control which allows them to disable the social networking feature?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Don't think this has been reported yet.
BBC: Microsoft has confirmed that Japanese firm Toshiba will make its portable media player - "Zune" - to be released before the end of the year. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5288042.stm and no, i didn't rtfa.
"No, no, no, don't tug on that! You never know what it might be attached to."
if MS decided to allow the Zune to share more than "promotional" copies of songs? I'm not talking about getting free music (already got that; thanks, Pirate Bay); but if MS were to enable the device to share _all_ media, then the RIAA would surely throw a fit. Microsoft vs. RIAA!! And look at it this way: No matter who wins the fight, the rest of the world benefits :)
Stream music to nearby strangers? In the traditional Microsoft fashion, this will probably work ONLY when those strangers do NOT want music streamed to them.
And by profit on the second run, you mean take a loss?
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
iPod is "cool" now, but how cool will it be when it's being used by seemingly everybody? When a teen sees that he's using the same gear as his parents, his teachers, the mailman, etc, how long will he still think that it's cool? That's when you'll see the younger set looking for iPod alternatives, and one of these alternatives will become the new "cool" thing, then you'll see iPod's dominance begin its gradual decline.
Even Jobs knows this, which is why he's trying to milk the iPod for all it's worth while he can. $99 Apple-branded iPod leather cases, anyone?
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
What one thing does your computer do well? I bet its not good at some things. Like games or security. I guess you have no other choice, but to throw it out and buy an electric typewritter, email appliance, video game console, and a deck of cards.
A device only needs to do one thing well in order for it to be accepted. Just like the wizard on Sienfeld. It's a "tip calculatior", "but it does other things". My customer bart has a computer, just becuase he wants to email his sister. Thats it. He had no interest in surfing the web, playing games or music with it. He just uses it to send emails. The extra features of a device really don't matter to anyone EXCEPT the early adopters and reviewers. If you were to give it as a gift to a "normal" person, they wouldn't care how good or bad the extra features are they won't even try to use them.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Sure they can unseat Apple, they just need to follow the same trail as with Palm. Microsoft can afford to lose $8-$10 billion on this too and in 5 years, who knows, Zune might have close to 50% marketshare and enough vendors willing to take the Microsoft payoffs to push Zune over 50% a few years later.
When you pay vendors to push your product with the cash Microsoft dumps on them, they can't afford to NOT 'sell' MS Zune. That also means that they can not afford to sell any other product like it either. Vendors can get 'hooked' on those marketing dollars and when they try to sell say a Linux device or Apple device, they learn how tough the MSFT habit has them hooked. IMO.
So the game has been played out before and it's the same 'nobody wins except the MS Windows monopoly' kind of ending. The only question I see is will it take 5 or 8 years?
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I love Zune
Zune Zooney
I can send my songs to me
With a great big brick
It's bigger than my shoe
Won't you say you want a Zune?
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Can it boot Linux?
When MS first announced XBOX who thought they would have a fighting chance against Sony's Playstation? Now here we are 4 years later. Have any of you changed your mind? Do not underestimate a company full of smart people armed with loads of cash and a long term view.
... check back in 3 years and see what things look like. And don't be surprised if it's a much closer race.
As regards iPod - personally, I carry a Pocket PC - it basically matches the specs of the Zune (except I have an SD card instead of a 30GB hard drive). It is my music player (mp3s and downloaded Yahoo Music WMAs), my PDA, my portable gaming machine and my mobile internet appliance. And I have had it for 2 years now. Battery life is phenomenal (I easily get a week on a charge). Now, that said, I bought iPod Nanos for my kids. They are the cool thing to have right now. However, cool with the younger set is a fleeting thing
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Maybe the whole reason microsoft is doing this is to hurt the profitability of the ipod, in order to hurt apple, in order to weaken OSX, in order to enable themselves to make more money off windows?
Maybe this is the true origin of their patent on limiting bandwidth in a social network? If someone gets a Zune and doesn't put any music on it, intending just to walk around and listen to everyone else's, then his bandwidth is going to suck. If his Zune is almost full, maybe he'll get pretty good bandwidth. I imagine the first firmware revision will be prone to gaming it. I await 1 GB Zunes with a CD image of XP Professional.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
I'm not being an Apple fanboy here (no, I don't own an iPod), but Zune could be the most ungainly personal device of all time.
It's too big. The idea of switching the wireless on and off is comical. So, for that matter, is the reported way client Zunes must break a streaming connection with its DJ host. How could these get out of development?.
Apple's devices got better with time. Perhaps the Zune will follow suit.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
I don't know what kind of ancient 'music' you're listening to mister, but everybody knows good songs arn't longer than 3 minutes.
paintball
The Blue Earphone of Death!
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
I have a prediction to make (putting stupid pundit hat on and ducking =)
I predict that when Vista, with "improved DRM" (TM) ships it will automatically share all of your MP3s out to your Zune. What's more, it will be be Windows Media Player sharing it's MP3 library the same way iTunes shares it's library. Only you'll be able to listen to your entire library on your Zune or anyone elses library that's on the same wireless or wired LAN with you.
What's even scarier than this prediction: Wait until the first MP3 shared viruses!!!!1!1!1!one!!1
It will be like that Code Red shit all over again, only handheld MP3 players are the new spam relays... man, what kind of wierd alter-universe will that be...
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
with my laptop I could flood all the nearby Zunes with goatse images.
I doubt you will be able to send anything to them or that they will be able to send anything to anyone else. The last hype article noticed that content "shared" between devices would disappear in a day or two. Getting around that would be a DMCA violation, M$ would happily punish you for. You can bet this device will use a "new and improved" Windoze Media format that will take all sorts of time to figure out and ultimately not be worth the effort.
We'll see what this thing really does, but my bet is that it will be a big DRM suck hole filled with adverts and disappearing content. That's what M$ has tried to force through every one of it's previous music services. I predict a device with Windoze Mobile battery life and stability combined with suck deal of (P)Urge, the featureless facade of WiMP, and Windoze lack of security. It's hard to tell if the ultimate limiting factor will be DRM shortened battery life or uptime.
I'll stick to my four year old Zaurus with GPE that plays mp3, ogg, gstreamed movies and everything else supported by Xine in addition to a choice of window managers, web browsers and normal PDA software.
Zune might not display your images but is will blow goats.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I'm neutral on the whole thing since I realized that iTunes is actually pretty good even without the iPod in the equation.
Amarok is generally better than iTunes, why not use that everywhere? The expandability is second only to Firefox but out of the box it has an excellent interface and a solid database. Songs can be quickly searched on any field and nested in more ways than most people want. There are iPod interface and mass storage device plugins to manage music on any portable device which create good playlists. What does iTunes have over that besides a fancy way to pay the RIAA?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
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Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Sure, I could stream all the music I wanted to nearby friends or strangers.
I streamed it to anyone and everyone in that subway car. We called it a boombox and WOW was it annoying!
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go chase the damn kids off the lawn.
When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras
- Windows + X to open Firefox
- Windows + C to start a command prompt
- Windows + L to bring up the calculator
as well as several others.as part of the lameness filter.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Bwahahahaha!!! I mean, HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! *wipes tears*...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
OK, ok. Please 'twitter', tell us how Amarok is "generally better" than iTunes. Please, I'm sure there's a lot of people who'd love to know.
Something else Microsoft is good at, besides spreading around swiss cheese security solutions, is vaporware. Nothing to see here. Move along. Call me when there is a product announcement instead of a so called leak.
OK, so all they need is for Steve to kill the iPod. That is, after all, how Palm gained dominance. And they got lucky... contrary to popular belief, there was no solid business reason to kill the Newton.
With the release of NewtonOS 2.0, and the zippy MessagePad 2000 hardware, the platform was growing incredibly fast. There were complex apps in development for the handheld that easily topped their Mac-based competitors/counterparts.
Newton, however, was John Sculley's baby, so killing it was a good way to get back at the guy. Steve, after his return to Apple, was even rumored to have smashed a few of them against the wall in anger at a leaked Mac design.
iPod is not going anywhere; Microsoft won't have Palm's luck here.
This is exactly what I'm hoping for. While I doubt Zune has a chance to "unseat" Apple, they have enough money to become a solid competitor. Nothing spurs innovation like healthy competition.
Bring it, Microsoft. And we'll have none of your shenanigans... let's see you really innovate, and take it to Apple on their turf this time.
MS' DRM allows you to have time-expiring content.
Surely they will not allow you to keep any of the music that is "shared" to you. It will expire in short order and won't be retrievable from the unit. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even let you share non-DRM music at all.
MS is not going to do anything that would make the RIAA unhappy with them.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
...WiFi, and a bigger screen, it's game over for Zune? And heck, isn't that already in the works?
The rumor mill certainly points to a full-face, touch-sensitive screen; and if Apple wasn't going to include WiFi before, they certainly will now.
Seems like Zune couldn't possibly stand up to that.
So. . .you can share songs with friends, right? And how long do you have to stand around waiting for the thing to transfer songs? Will it depend on interference from other ambient wifi networks? Isn't that going to cut down a bit on the whole theory of "spontaneous social networking"? Is it really that much of an improvement over all the IM'ing people do and their ability to transfer songs through that?
I'd be a bit surprised if that turned out to be true.
Larsal
I'd like to direct your attention to the most useless key ever invented in the history of computing--the Windows key
[...] the Windows key stands alone in uselessness, my friends.
Bah. The Windows key has more uses than the Apple (or "command"?) key ever did.
With the Windows key, you can control about every aspect of your computer (especially Windows+R being a virtual command prompt). As for the command key... I remember a failed implementation of the "alt" button.
DATABASE WOW WOW
The funny thing is Zune can be translated from Hebrew into a vulgar English word.
You can read the rest of the article I pulled that quote from at Zune could kill Microsoft partners, not iPod. Which I don't entirely agree with.
And what about that nonsense with videos and photos? In order to unseat Apple thay have to create a small, cute music device. Not more. Exactly that. With what they have, they are targetting a different, and much smaller, market.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Personally, I hate the entire iTunes and iPod combination. I don't like the way iTunes functions at all. I personally like Napster. It works really well and it's way more friendly and easy to use. My mp3 player had 1gb and is smaller then the iPod Shuffle. It's so simple to use that I can easily change songs/options with taking it out of my pocket to look at it. I think people need to get over this whole iPod hype. It's nothing special.
Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?
No, because people buy the brand, not the device. Or well not in this generation. XBox1 didn't unseat playstation2, but I won't be surprised if it wins this time around.
iPod has the same "aura" as playstation, it being THE mp3 player to have and show off.
I personally hope we have a 50%/50% picture for zune/ipod (not counting the rest of the market, which I hope is still there of course), because Apple desparately needs a reality check.
But then, so do most of their customers.
There are two funny words in its name: "creative" and "vision". It just is so obviously an iPod rip-off, with some extra features thrown in. I actually happen to give a damn if my fairly expensive toy is something original instead of a lame-arse copy -- I get seen with it all the time, after all.
Tried the Vision:M at a store once. Didn't really like or dislike its features much -- I just didn't feel it offered me anything (technically) above my iPpod. Mostly it felt like it's an iPod for the people who put blinkenlights into case fans and on the bottom of their "Type R" ricers. I'm not one of them. (My home comp completely hides the silent water-cooling system inside it. My car is in good shape but tuned stylish rather than "sporty".)
I'm curious. What exactly do you find so compelling about that Creative?
I would like to kindly and forcefully demand that the media PLEASE
STOP
reporting
EVERY
mp3 player
as a potential iPod KILLER.
Please.
Then no, no it won't unseat Apple.
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra
At least Microsoft continues to be consistent in their product design philosophy.
With Microsoft's Zune, if I can stream my files (MP3s) to a nearby Zune player that belongs to some guy or girl I met on the train, wouldn't this constitute as illegal file sharing?
Perhaps Microsoft will be able to provide music lovers with a "better" device than the iPod. Perhaps. However, the iPod isn't merely an Mp3/ Mp4AAC (heh) Player. it's a Status Symbol. A piece of Fashion. Apple has worked extraordinarily hard to market towards the trendsetter fashionistas with their iPod. They have that user base. That user base doesn't care about wiz bang wow features. Does it work? Yes. Does it work well? Yes? Am I enhancing my image with this product? More than likely. Apple is and will be associated with "hip and cool" whereas Microsoft has _anything but_ that Image. Considering that the explosive nature of the iPod hasn't necessarily been featured based but more of a cleverly crafted marketing campaign coupled with a product that "Simply works". It will be extraordinarily hard for any company to break into that market. Microsoft will hobble around. They reach the status of Creative by unseating creative from their slot in the Digi-music world. But that's about it. Unless they somehow manage to transform their image to 'hip and cool' Oh ... and apple has been battling MS in the hip and cool market lately with those new Get a mac ads. It's a multi pronged attack.
--------========+++Dont Feed The Lab Techs+++========--------
Who says people have to send you the ads? I'm sure MS could give discounts on its products to any store that bombards users with such ads if the store agrees to serve up these ads to all Zunes in the area. MS could even get other venues to have such Zune-ad-servers to distribute their ads along with MS's from a central MS server. Next thing you know, anywhere you go, on your Zune you get pop-ups saying "Hey! Check out this cool new zune tune!" or some garbage. Yay!!!
I guess this is why MS says that it will have more ad-based revenue in the future.
Twinstiq, game news
I agree that the Newton product was terminated when it shouldn't have been but I would think that it was an unfortunate victim of Jobs attempt to stop the financial bleeding of Apple at that time. If you remember, Microsoft was spread FUD in the press about Apple Mac being killed off by the futuristic Windows 95 product. The public believed this and all but stopped purchasing Macs.
Regardless, if you believe that Palm was it's own reason for its lost marketshare, I think you are wrong. I knew people selling Palm products/accessories and Microsoft products/accessories and they pulled the plug on Palm stuff well before Palm lost much/any marketshare and wouldn't look at anythng unless it wasn't for WinCE. And just look at old data on losses to the WinCE division over the last 10 years. They posted losses of around $250 million per quarter for most of the 10 years of the product. So, adding in any income they might have collected from the productline and you've got a massive spending/marketing machine.
So while I agree that Palm did some really stupid things over the years, there is no company/product which can exist with a dominant marketshare when another is dumping over $1 billion per year into marketing it year after year. BTW, Netscape is another example of Microsoft spending its way into a dominant position. IMO.
Ganted, this only works for Microsoft where they can leverage the MS Windows OS monopoly. MS Zune is directly tied to MS Windows and Microsoft will leverage their OEM distribution channels as I mentioned earlier using 'marketing' kickbacks to keep the OEMs productline profitable even when few units are being purchased.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I'm no marketeer, but if you can sustain "cool" long enough to become ubiquitous, then you have a huge advantage even when "cool" goes away. Any aftermarket company worth their salt is going to cater to the iPod crowd... Microsoft currently enjoys this position on the desktop. When cars from the major automakers are iPod ready, and every stereo maker offers an iPod dock, Microsoft has some serious work to do.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Wireless sucks. The only way to have anything approaching at all a secure system is to have a wire going from your computer to the router. Everything else is snake oil. I don't have even ten gigabytes of music and I doubt that those who do even listen to it all. I also don't care about size as long as it fits in my pocket; I'd prefer a single TI-89-sized device to a whole bunch of iPod-nano-sized devices which seems to be becoming the norm. It is possible to make a system that acts as a cellphone, a camera, a full graphing calculator, and a music player, but unfortunately the backwards nature and fashion requirements(everything has to be too small, I want a higher resolution!) are holding the industry 10 years behind where they could be.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
No.
Now you all can go back to listening to your iPods.
And if your windows key is disabled by IHateThisKey or somesuch program, remember Ctrl-Esc = Windows key.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
most people would like to be able to play DRMed music that they've bought
So tell me if (P)urge will play your old Napster music. No, oh well, my joke is funnier than DRM.
We'll see whether people want a Zaurus more than a "DRM suck hole filled with adverts"
Indeed we will, but I suspect it will do about as well as Dell's attempt at M$ Music
. No one will buy them because the terms suck. They will give them and music away but people will still think they suck and finally, M$ will give up and put it's effort back into their third rate OS. M$ entry to a market is usually the demise of the market.Zaurus, and other PDAs, died because the companies got sued by the Wintel conglomerate members and because M$ made their OS difficult for anything but their own PDAs. In both PDAs and media there are enough anti-trust violations to make a whole new chapter in any MBA text. In the Music space, they are getting their asses sued off by the EU. As people embrace alternatives, the Wintel conglomerates lose their previous power and everyone wins.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Can someone write a fake disk device for windows, that remaps to another non-apple mp3 player mounted drive and tricks itunes
into thinking its an ipod? That we itunes can be used with EVERYTHING in existance, making the need for the ipod MUTE.
Does any one have any docs/hacks on how itunes works, if its all pure file IO, or it uses USB/firewire commands also?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
What if you share 64kbps pod casts? that are NOT copyright? Will all shared hiquality content drop down to 64k?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
With zune you only rent music, you only get access to a M$ music library not the full range of music that is available. Of course you can stream to other people already paying for access to the limited microsoft library, but why would you bother. The only other content that you can stream is promotional material, bloody adds. After one year of paying for access to the microsoft zune library, what will you have if you change your mind, a lame player only fit for sale cheap on ebay or the bin. Where is the famous hardware will be free and peole will pay for content, it seems to be missing again.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
MS didn't lobby for any laws specifically relating to music.
And no law MS lobbied for in relation to computers is going to be construed as countermanding copyright law.
MS cannot top the RIAA in their own arena. If MS wants things to change, they'll have to work with the RIAA.
And your attitude is hilarious. Despite huge efforts, MS has had their butt kicked by Apple over the last 3 years. And now you think that MS is such a big dog they can topple the RIAA. Hilarious. If MS is so powerful they can do anything they want, how come they have failed with PlaysForSure so far? They didn't want it to succeed?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
.... to notice that WIndows users are using emacs shortcuts now.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.