Cap-trade WILL NOT WORK. In fact, IT WILL BACKFIRE ON CARBON. We are BOTH in agreement on that. OTH, applying a tax based on CO2 emissions (and hopefully pollution as well) IS TOTALLY LEGAL.
It is illegal to apply a tax in a different way based on imported vs. non-imported. It is TOTALLY legal to apply a tax based on pollution/emissions/etc. The problem that we ran into about the gambling is that we applied a different regulation on it being offshore. THink of it this way; Do we have the right to say that a good is dangerous or not to our citizens? We do. WTO can do nothing about it.
First, it is easy to send up lots of uranium into space. It can be sent in capsules that can take any issue (heat, water, etc). BUT, the simple fact is, that the moon has been found to contain Uranium. And it appears to be a LOT. It should be possible to mine it and send it various places. While I was actually a fan of Mars first, now I back the moon due to the water and uranium. Combine that with an electric launcher and it should be possible to send missions at extremely fast rates through the solar system.
I have always found it disingenuous that so many have said such things yet ignore the facts.
The truth is, that EU is fairly close to the same emissions as us. The problem is that EU likes to compare JUST Germany or France to America, which is also a lie. Heck, if they want to compare it in that fashion, we have states that compare VERY well against Germany and France.
But that is also why I am opposed to using emissions per capita. It is a false comparison. Take the case of American census. We are undercounted by 5-10% or more. Why? Illegal aliens. OTH, EU has a fairly static case and is fairly well known. Once America can do a better job counting, then we will have lower emissions per person.
First, China is one of the MOST INEFFICIENT countries in terms of energy. ABsolutely HORRIBLE. A large number of undeveloped nations are WAY ahead of CHina.
Second, I find it amazing that you blame the west for this situation:
CHina has fixed their money against the dollar (and it is WAY below what it should be)
they put trade barriers to block any western goods
They pollute heavily to be able to undercut any western goods.
The west has the tech to stop the vast majority of China pollution, but CHina wants us to GIVE THEM the tech (not the equipment, but the underlying tech), in spite of the fact that they are currently one of the richest nations going.
The CHinese ppl are STILL paid horribly.
CHina is dumping a large amount of goods on the west. EU is saying no to the dumping and Obama is doing exactly what W SHOULD have done; calling out all dumping.
Basically, China is polluting and gouging their citizens to be able to steal jobs. I do not blame the west. I blame CHinese gov. AND western companies.
Finally, Look carefully at what I am suggesting. It will raise the price slowly on those countries that are choosing to be inefficient to be able to take jobs. It will enourage the smaller items to be made local. That means more jobs in places like Africa and the Americas. It will also encourage ALL countries to drop their CO2 quickly to get the jobs. All so, marginal items will remain local.
China would be stronger and better for it; Chinese leadership would be losing control. Basically, when we announced what we were up to, Chinese leadership simply prevented it.
Britain put a gun on China and made them do their will. We will disregard the other issues (civility, legality, etc), and just focus on RAMIFICATIONS. China has spent the majority of their economic gains on THEIR MILITARY over the last decade. In addition, they have focused the majority of that effort on OFFENSIVE weapons, not defensive. Basically, China could not stop a western attack that involved America. BUT, once that looks likely to happen, China WILL ATTACK. Why? They now have the ability to attack our communication and GPS network. In addition, they are in the process of building new military only space stations. That holds ZERO advantage over automated systems EXCEPT for ability to control a weapon. In addition, they are now building new nuclear subs at an extremely high rate. They are spitting out 1-2 new ATTACKS subs AND 1-2 new BOOMERS EACH YEAR. America has 14 boomer capable, but only 10 are in use as such. China appears to now have 8-10 boomers TODAY (with more on the way). In addition, they have restarted their neutron bomb productions combined with regular hydrogen bombs.
What it amounts to, if you put a gun on China today (and only nuclear will work), then China WILL ATTACK. And they CAN WIN or at the least stop the west.
That option is no longer viable. Personally, I am thankful for that. OTH, Chinese leaders are thinking that they CAN win in a nuclear war. That twisted idea is going to cause a new WW.
Not really. The number of Chinese living in poverty is still greater than the entire population of the United States. Even the few Chinese who do manage to graduate from college still have trouble finding a good job. Getting a degree at a US university merely puts them at the front of that line. And of course, there are a few in China who are filthy rich. That is everywhere.
That is mostly the fault of the Chinese gov. First, a very large percentage of Chinese are in rural areas. And the Chinese gov has their prices fixed on the food they grow as well as limit where they can go (Contrary to many western thinking, china remains more than 1/2 COMMAND ECONOMY). In addition, the majority of the Chinese money is being spent on Military upgrades. In fact, their military has had more monetary increases then nearly all the rest of their BUDGET COMBINED (if you add in what appears to be happening in their 'Civilian' space program, it is more than 1/2 of all increase). The gov also has trade barriers against the majority of items from the west and even have full stops on a number of others (small minority though). That keeps prices artificially high. Finally, with CHina controlling their money, they have kept it fixed against the dollar, which is destroying the dollar and Euro (all while arguing that the Yuan, not the dollar should be used in international trade. The fact that China gov. is manipulating their money to the detrement of all nations should be reason enough for all other nations to fix their money against Yuan, but backwards). This keeps their import prices high and export low.
Majority of Chinese are poor, but this has more to do with their Gov.
That would have been the case had W done his part. Per the clinton agreement, in 2002, CHina was to allow their money to be freely traded AND they were to drop trade barriers. Right now, China still controls their money and has 25% tariffs on all goods. To make matters worse, they are purposely discouraging trade. For example, look at pollution control. This is technology that they DO NOT HAVE, but the west is loaded with. But they have 4 TRILLION dollars surplus. China says that they want the west to GIVE THEM THE TECH FOR FREE and will not buy ANY OF THE WESTERN CONTROLS. Lately, they have been stealing the plans for these. It is obvious that they will be selling pollution controls to other nations soon based on those stolen designs.
Right now, everybody is after the west (including the west) to address Climage change and help little nations deal with this. Mostly by putting cap/trad on OUR energy to address this. But will it work?
it would work if all else remains static. Sadly, that is not the case. China is adding 1-2 NEW COAL PLANTS EACH WEEK. These are.5GW size plants. Worse, the coal is inferior coal. It is very low grade coal with heavy pollutants. Then add in the new cars and oil based transportation that is happening in China.
Even with the growth in hydro and wind and Solar and Nukes that China is planning, if they continue this course, they will exceed ALL OF AMERICA's emission by 2015. By 2018, they will exceed ALL OF America's AND Western EU. By 2020 (11 very short years), they will account for slightly more than 1/2 of all of the CO2 that man has emitted through history. IOW, all of the cuts that we do, will be worthless.
But it still get worse. In particular, once we push Cap/trade, other nations will have a strong incentive to grab our manufacturing. And who will be pushing "cheap" coal plants? GE coal and other companies. Many companies will work to take advantage of the difference in prices (labor and energy).
So, with knowing the above, how do drop the emissions and solve the climate change issues?
Here is my idea.
All western countries need to cap their single point emissions right away. IOW, no increase in emissions from Coal, Cement, etc. Obviously, emissions from transportation (which is diffuse emissions and difficult to control). Ideally, other nations would join, but that is not likely. But the west CAN and should cap it.
Put a sliding tax on ALL GOODS at point of retail sale. It must be based on CO2 emissions FROM THE COUNTRY of main assembly AND the main material AND the transportation of item. Base the CO2 emissions from satellite. The tax needs to be applied as a percentage based on the above items.
For example, assume something is assembled in Canada, from Canadian oil. Canada has one of the lower emissions in terms of size as well as high efficiency in terms of GDP. In addition, the transportation costs are extremely low, assuming rail. As such, they may have to pay only 5% of whatever the tax is.
OTH, China has moderate amount of emissions based on size, HOWEVER, is one of the lowest efficiency in emissions/GDP. In addition, it has extremely high transportation costs (rail in China, then boat to here, and then rail around). As such, they would have 90-100% of the tax.
American goods made here have a moderate emissions per land and moderate efficient emissions. OTH, our transportation emissions are minor. As such, we might see 30-40% of the tax.
Several points on this:
This must be applied to ALL GOODS. If we apply it only to imported goods, then it will be illegal per WTO. Likewise, if we apply it only to local goods, it would simply be the same as the Dem's Cap/Trade; Worthless.
It really needs to be a sliding scale to reward those nations that clean up their act.
the base tax MUST start low to not kill economies and then INCREASE over time. If a business knows that the tax will increase, it gives them time to adjust their plans. If we hit it fast with high taxes, it will destroy economies.
Ideally, this same approach is used for a number of pollutants. For example, Mercury is one that is screaming to be controlled. China is the largest polluter of it and it will continue to increase with the coal. Likewise, the same is true of their SO* emissions. By applying a slowly increasing tax on nations based on their emissions, we can encourage ALL NATIONS to change.
One last point. Many nations will scream that they should be exempt because they are Developing nations. If that is done, it will simply encourage them to have lower costs goods by cheating. In addition, nearly all of the smaller developing nations HAVE low emissions. They would be at the low end of the tax.
Of course, it would be useful if they could retrieve those sats in one piece rather then the million from having been dropped. See, the CU students SHOULD have gone to CSU and learned how to do decent balloons FIRST. Heck, a CSU balloon can haul around a 6 y.o, and they even have practice runs for it.
They did not give out that much info in the beggining of this, but it was pretty obvious that they had more than 'just ties'. Yet, an AC got modded up, without anybody using any logic on his statment.
The attack was directly controlled from afghanistan. Even AQ and Taliban do not deny that. And OBL has multiple videos in which he states that he, AQ and Taliban were behind 9-11 and numerous other attempts on the west. In addition, they have now threatened Russia as well as China.
Look; We dropped them on a nation that had attacked us. Simple as that. We had no knowledge of the long term consequences. If you really want to blame somebody, then blame the japanese emperior. Heck, even after we dropped the first one, they should have said enough was enough. But they did not.
Finally, for all your carping about, you seem to ignore the fact that USSR, Germany, AND japan were all working on it as well. Germany transferred all their nuke knowledge to Japan via subs right before their fall. Either one of those 2 could have dropped them first (and the world would be a RADICALLY different place; all one nation). What would you be saying today had either of them dropped it? Praising that all the worlds jews were gone? That we were one happy nation?
This is ABSOLUTELY not true in countries that do not have democracy; China, Iran (quasi-democracy), North Korea, Myanmar, etc.. The reason is that these countries have ZERO issues with losing their citizens lives if things are coached in the right way. With a democracy, then each life lost will slowly degrade support for war, esp. if we started it.
New Mexico will be able to get some of the cheapest energy possible. More important, this link will lead to the creation of many more x-country lines going across the nation. Once that occurs, it will make AE very viable. Right now, we in the west pay about.03 to.07/KW, while the east pays.15-.20/kw.
They should consider putting together some of their code with a timer. The idea being that run a set sequence that exercises what THEY consider important to the game. Once they start doing that, they will become the owner of benchmarks. More importantly, the chip designers will spend a LOT more time working with them.
Most of the brownfields, by their very definitions, are either in or close to suburbia. Basically, by putting up wind, Solar PV|thermal, or possibly geo-thermal, these will generate power CLOSE to consumption. In addition, many of these sites already had high tension lines being brought in. Generally, a brownfield was a previous manufacturing site that used loads of electricity. So, with high tension lines already there, the increased costs of build-out as well as maintenance may be far less than doing a new site located 20-50 miles away.
Slashdot Mirror
this does not use batteries, does not swap anything. Did you not read the article?
Cap-trade WILL NOT WORK. In fact, IT WILL BACKFIRE ON CARBON. We are BOTH in agreement on that. OTH, applying a tax based on CO2 emissions (and hopefully pollution as well) IS TOTALLY LEGAL.
It is illegal to apply a tax in a different way based on imported vs. non-imported. It is TOTALLY legal to apply a tax based on pollution/emissions/etc. The problem that we ran into about the gambling is that we applied a different regulation on it being offshore. THink of it this way; Do we have the right to say that a good is dangerous or not to our citizens? We do. WTO can do nothing about it.
NASA has paid solely for it. I suspect that a number of countries will be trying to buy it. Others will try to steal it.
First, it is easy to send up lots of uranium into space. It can be sent in capsules that can take any issue (heat, water, etc). BUT, the simple fact is, that the moon has been found to contain Uranium. And it appears to be a LOT. It should be possible to mine it and send it various places. While I was actually a fan of Mars first, now I back the moon due to the water and uranium. Combine that with an electric launcher and it should be possible to send missions at extremely fast rates through the solar system.
Between Rush and the future Mildred E. Gillars, William Joyce's, that AC will fit right in.
Actually, America has NEVER been the largest emitter, even per capita. We are in the top 10, but have never been #1. Most of the middle east use 2-3 times the amount of energy and were not being accurately monitored. Once sats came into play, this became obvious as to how much CO2 is emitted in nations like Qatar, UAE, etc.. Heck even Luxembourg is worse than we are.Keep in mind that these were based on 2006 data which is ANCIENT. The truth is that America is MUCH lower now.
I have always found it disingenuous that so many have said such things yet ignore the facts.
The truth is, that EU is fairly close to the same emissions as us. The problem is that EU likes to compare JUST Germany or France to America, which is also a lie. Heck, if they want to compare it in that fashion, we have states that compare VERY well against Germany and France.
But that is also why I am opposed to using emissions per capita. It is a false comparison. Take the case of American census. We are undercounted by 5-10% or more. Why? Illegal aliens. OTH, EU has a fairly static case and is fairly well known. Once America can do a better job counting, then we will have lower emissions per person.
Second, I find it amazing that you blame the west for this situation:
Basically, China is polluting and gouging their citizens to be able to steal jobs. I do not blame the west. I blame CHinese gov. AND western companies.
Finally, Look carefully at what I am suggesting. It will raise the price slowly on those countries that are choosing to be inefficient to be able to take jobs. It will enourage the smaller items to be made local. That means more jobs in places like Africa and the Americas. It will also encourage ALL countries to drop their CO2 quickly to get the jobs. All so, marginal items will remain local.
China would be stronger and better for it; Chinese leadership would be losing control. Basically, when we announced what we were up to, Chinese leadership simply prevented it.
Britain put a gun on China and made them do their will. We will disregard the other issues (civility, legality, etc), and just focus on RAMIFICATIONS. China has spent the majority of their economic gains on THEIR MILITARY over the last decade. In addition, they have focused the majority of that effort on OFFENSIVE weapons, not defensive. Basically, China could not stop a western attack that involved America. BUT, once that looks likely to happen, China WILL ATTACK. Why? They now have the ability to attack our communication and GPS network. In addition, they are in the process of building new military only space stations. That holds ZERO advantage over automated systems EXCEPT for ability to control a weapon. In addition, they are now building new nuclear subs at an extremely high rate. They are spitting out 1-2 new ATTACKS subs AND 1-2 new BOOMERS EACH YEAR. America has 14 boomer capable, but only 10 are in use as such. China appears to now have 8-10 boomers TODAY (with more on the way). In addition, they have restarted their neutron bomb productions combined with regular hydrogen bombs.
What it amounts to, if you put a gun on China today (and only nuclear will work), then China WILL ATTACK. And they CAN WIN or at the least stop the west.
That option is no longer viable. Personally, I am thankful for that. OTH, Chinese leaders are thinking that they CAN win in a nuclear war. That twisted idea is going to cause a new WW.
Not really. The number of Chinese living in poverty is still greater than the entire population of the United States. Even the few Chinese who do manage to graduate from college still have trouble finding a good job. Getting a degree at a US university merely puts them at the front of that line. And of course, there are a few in China who are filthy rich. That is everywhere.
That is mostly the fault of the Chinese gov. First, a very large percentage of Chinese are in rural areas. And the Chinese gov has their prices fixed on the food they grow as well as limit where they can go (Contrary to many western thinking, china remains more than 1/2 COMMAND ECONOMY). In addition, the majority of the Chinese money is being spent on Military upgrades. In fact, their military has had more monetary increases then nearly all the rest of their BUDGET COMBINED (if you add in what appears to be happening in their 'Civilian' space program, it is more than 1/2 of all increase). The gov also has trade barriers against the majority of items from the west and even have full stops on a number of others (small minority though). That keeps prices artificially high. Finally, with CHina controlling their money, they have kept it fixed against the dollar, which is destroying the dollar and Euro (all while arguing that the Yuan, not the dollar should be used in international trade. The fact that China gov. is manipulating their money to the detrement of all nations should be reason enough for all other nations to fix their money against Yuan, but backwards). This keeps their import prices high and export low.
Majority of Chinese are poor, but this has more to do with their Gov.
That would have been the case had W done his part. Per the clinton agreement, in 2002, CHina was to allow their money to be freely traded AND they were to drop trade barriers. Right now, China still controls their money and has 25% tariffs on all goods. To make matters worse, they are purposely discouraging trade. For example, look at pollution control. This is technology that they DO NOT HAVE, but the west is loaded with. But they have 4 TRILLION dollars surplus. China says that they want the west to GIVE THEM THE TECH FOR FREE and will not buy ANY OF THE WESTERN CONTROLS. Lately, they have been stealing the plans for these. It is obvious that they will be selling pollution controls to other nations soon based on those stolen designs.
it would work if all else remains static. Sadly, that is not the case. China is adding 1-2 NEW COAL PLANTS EACH WEEK. These are
Even with the growth in hydro and wind and Solar and Nukes that China is planning, if they continue this course, they will exceed ALL OF AMERICA's emission by 2015. By 2018, they will exceed ALL OF America's AND Western EU. By 2020 (11 very short years), they will account for slightly more than 1/2 of all of the CO2 that man has emitted through history. IOW, all of the cuts that we do, will be worthless.
But it still get worse. In particular, once we push Cap/trade, other nations will have a strong incentive to grab our manufacturing. And who will be pushing "cheap" coal plants? GE coal and other companies. Many companies will work to take advantage of the difference in prices (labor and energy).
So, with knowing the above, how do drop the emissions and solve the climate change issues? Here is my idea.
OTH, China has moderate amount of emissions based on size, HOWEVER, is one of the lowest efficiency in emissions/GDP. In addition, it has extremely high transportation costs (rail in China, then boat to here, and then rail around). As such, they would have 90-100% of the tax.
American goods made here have a moderate emissions per land and moderate efficient emissions. OTH, our transportation emissions are minor. As such, we might see 30-40% of the tax.
Several points on this:
Ideally, this same approach is used for a number of pollutants. For example, Mercury is one that is screaming to be controlled. China is the largest polluter of it and it will continue to increase with the coal. Likewise, the same is true of their SO* emissions. By applying a slowly increasing tax on nations based on their emissions, we can encourage ALL NATIONS to change.
One last point. Many nations will scream that they should be exempt because they are Developing nations. If that is done, it will simply encourage them to have lower costs goods by cheating. In addition, nearly all of the smaller developing nations HAVE low emissions. They would be at the low end of the tax.
if Sam Palmisano was also arrested, charged, tried, convicted and hung. The top of IBM have been horrible over the last 7 years.
Of course, it would be useful if they could retrieve those sats in one piece rather then the million from having been dropped. See, the CU students SHOULD have gone to CSU and learned how to do decent balloons FIRST. Heck, a CSU balloon can haul around a 6 y.o, and they even have practice runs for it.
They did not give out that much info in the beggining of this, but it was pretty obvious that they had more than 'just ties'. Yet, an AC got modded up, without anybody using any logic on his statment.
Revelations in the case have slowly emerged following the Oct. 8 arrest of 32-year-old French-Algerian Adlène Hicheur, who holds a doctorate in particle physics. Hicheur was nabbed after intelligence officials intercepted encoded e-mails he sent to AQIM members offering to plan terrorist strikes in France.
What this shows is that those who do not think or even openly sympathize with terrorism, are modded up here.
What else is missing is how much communications EU taps. Much has been made of America's PATRIOT act and the theft of our rights. Little is said of the quiet disappearing of similar rights throughout EU.
The attack was directly controlled from afghanistan. Even AQ and Taliban do not deny that. And OBL has multiple videos in which he states that he, AQ and Taliban were behind 9-11 and numerous other attempts on the west. In addition, they have now threatened Russia as well as China.
Look; We dropped them on a nation that had attacked us. Simple as that. We had no knowledge of the long term consequences. If you really want to blame somebody, then blame the japanese emperior. Heck, even after we dropped the first one, they should have said enough was enough. But they did not.
Finally, for all your carping about, you seem to ignore the fact that USSR, Germany, AND japan were all working on it as well. Germany transferred all their nuke knowledge to Japan via subs right before their fall. Either one of those 2 could have dropped them first (and the world would be a RADICALLY different place; all one nation). What would you be saying today had either of them dropped it? Praising that all the worlds jews were gone? That we were one happy nation?
This is ABSOLUTELY not true in countries that do not have democracy; China, Iran (quasi-democracy), North Korea, Myanmar, etc.. The reason is that these countries have ZERO issues with losing their citizens lives if things are coached in the right way. With a democracy, then each life lost will slowly degrade support for war, esp. if we started it.
New Mexico will be able to get some of the cheapest energy possible. More important, this link will lead to the creation of many more x-country lines going across the nation. Once that occurs, it will make AE very viable. Right now, we in the west pay about .03 to .07/KW, while the east pays .15-.20/kw.
We have loads more sun, less clouds, and great geo-thermal potential. The West to the midwest has loads of wind.
Good Luck. Nice to see those that take on the evil and can win at least a battle (hopefully, the war).
They should consider putting together some of their code with a timer. The idea being that run a set sequence that exercises what THEY consider important to the game. Once they start doing that, they will become the owner of benchmarks. More importantly, the chip designers will spend a LOT more time working with them.
Most of the brownfields, by their very definitions, are either in or close to suburbia. Basically, by putting up wind, Solar PV|thermal, or possibly geo-thermal, these will generate power CLOSE to consumption. In addition, many of these sites already had high tension lines being brought in. Generally, a brownfield was a previous manufacturing site that used loads of electricity. So, with high tension lines already there, the increased costs of build-out as well as maintenance may be far less than doing a new site located 20-50 miles away.
before BSA claims that 100% of software on Linux is stolen?