This is a very good point about Democracy. I think this is also why almost nobody is for pure Democracy.
Any form of Government will work if you put the right people in it.
I am completly aware that you didn't say all, but you are defintitly talking about most. You said yourself that you were using the article as an opportunity to pontificate about women,Saying that avery tiny amount of women are capable of math, and that those women are unfeminine is pretty much the same as saying only men are suited for it.Which is more or less what you are saying. Especially with your statement in your first post about hormone treatments, it is obvious that you think the idea itself of female mathematicians is somewhat ridiculous. You seem to attach a value to the masculinity of mathematics, and the femininity of the humanities.
Let us say that you are right, what should be done then about women who want careers in computer science, seeing as this was the topic of the thread? Theory is all well and good, but what are the social implications?
There isn't any need to deal with the 'arguement'. It isn't an 'arguement', its a gender bias dolled up as logic. Paglia is as misogynistic as anyone, she just sees herself as enough of a man that the comments she makes about women don't apply to her. It is not meant as an attack to state what I think your race and gender are. I just don't think that very many women or black people agree with those kind of statements, the obvious exception here being the above mentioned Camille Paglia. Of course if they represent 'truth' I know it is completely unneccesary for me to agree with them. Perhaps you are right about men and mathematicians. It would explain some things if men were just clinically unable to grasp that women have the same kind of brains which they do,when they look at women they are unable to visualize the same kind of thoughts going through their heads. I don't think this is true about men. I always found it interesting that she picked Jack-the-Ripper. The majority of serial killers are male, indeed. But Jack-the-Ripper has never been identified. It is entirely possible that Jack-the-Ripper WAS a woman.
"There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack-the-Ripper?"
I find this kind of arguement very appalling. I believe that you just represent a group of insecure white males (I know it is quite possible that you are not a white male but somehow I do not feel that this is the case)who need to feel superior to females and people of other races because you lack faith in yourself and your abilities. Unfortunatly the quote above was made by a woman, who felt like she needed to jump on this band-wagon to be seen as an intellectual. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but you are flat out wrong, about women and blacks. These sort of studies come out more and more as society becomes more equal, but we will get to a point where they are just laughed off.
I thought it was amusing. Maybe American Greetings is upset because they were trying to sell a similar line of T-shirts to Hot-Topic and this beat them to it.
I'd have to work pretty hard to work up to Dave Sim's level of bile. What exactly did I say about him that implied a hatred of the male gender equivalent to his hatred of the female? Here is more of his 'rationality'.If any of you have read all of this and would like to put up a well mannered defense, be my guest. http://www.tcj.com/232/tangent0.html
Thank you, you represent maybe a tenth of the people on this board. I wonder why I even read this page sometimes, but there are a few rational people out here.
In addition to being a very good take on the atmosphere of CS departments, bringing the video games thread into it brings up another point. Playing video games as a child leads to a familiarity with computers and electronics, possibly groups of friends to talk about computers and electronics with, and a level of comfort with going into the electronics and computer sections of stores. Also scifi is still very sexist and male dominated, despite all the excellent female authors, and scifi often interests people in technological fields. Little boys are given the impression that these things are for them, while little girls are turned off by the sexist atmosphere and subliminally shooed away by all sorts of social factors. So the boys get interested at a young age, are more interested and encouraged in basic math, and have a leg up on the whole thing. The opposite happens with little girls and English but that's a whole other subject and we are talking about women in tech fields, where the money is at. Boys and girls perform equally on science and math tests until eigth or ninth grade, when being good at math is good for a boys reputation and bad for a girls, relatively.Then girls drop off rapidly and never catch up.
It isn't that women aren't capable but there is a lot of social stuff that needs to be worked through.
No, he was talking about women in general, the "female void" leaching off the "male light". It is very very very mysogynistic stuff. If you are not uncomfortable with the idea of being a mysogynist that is your problem, I myself see no need to support this kind of thinking. Here's some quotes and writings for anybody who is curious what we are even talking about. http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.ht ml
If you don't think that this stuff is mysogyny then go look up mysogyny.
Dave Sim is a mysogynist, he completly lost me as a potential buyer of his works because I read his little piece about women. He's not going to be getting any money from me.
So they're selling this with girls in metal bras? That will probably work. People would watch a show with guys filling out tax forms if it was accompanied by models in fetish wear. Thanks Comedy Central.
Slashdot Mirror
I liked the Ewoks. But I was pretty young when the movies came out.
C'mon, pick any of the Belmonts, use the sets from Bram Stoker's Dracula or Brotherhood of the Wolf. It'd make a great action film.
More like Japanese History in the case of Samurai Showdown...
Or at least make it a day or two off work.
This is a very good point about Democracy. I think this is also why almost nobody is for pure Democracy. Any form of Government will work if you put the right people in it.
I am completly aware that you didn't say all, but you are defintitly talking about most. You said yourself that you were using the article as an opportunity to pontificate about women,Saying that avery tiny amount of women are capable of math, and that those women are unfeminine is pretty much the same as saying only men are suited for it.Which is more or less what you are saying. Especially with your statement in your first post about hormone treatments, it is obvious that you think the idea itself of female mathematicians is somewhat ridiculous. You seem to attach a value to the masculinity of mathematics, and the femininity of the humanities. Let us say that you are right, what should be done then about women who want careers in computer science, seeing as this was the topic of the thread? Theory is all well and good, but what are the social implications?
There isn't any need to deal with the 'arguement'. It isn't an 'arguement', its a gender bias dolled up as logic. Paglia is as misogynistic as anyone, she just sees herself as enough of a man that the comments she makes about women don't apply to her.
It is not meant as an attack to state what I think your race and gender are. I just don't think that very many women or black people agree with those kind of statements, the obvious exception here being the above mentioned Camille Paglia. Of course if they represent 'truth' I know it is completely unneccesary for me to agree with them. Perhaps you are right about men and mathematicians. It would explain some things if men were just clinically unable to grasp that women have the same kind of brains which they do,when they look at women they are unable to visualize the same kind of thoughts going through their heads. I don't think this is true about men.
I always found it interesting that she picked Jack-the-Ripper. The majority of serial killers are male, indeed. But Jack-the-Ripper has never been identified. It is entirely possible that Jack-the-Ripper WAS a woman.
"There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack-the-Ripper?" I find this kind of arguement very appalling. I believe that you just represent a group of insecure white males (I know it is quite possible that you are not a white male but somehow I do not feel that this is the case)who need to feel superior to females and people of other races because you lack faith in yourself and your abilities. Unfortunatly the quote above was made by a woman, who felt like she needed to jump on this band-wagon to be seen as an intellectual. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but you are flat out wrong, about women and blacks. These sort of studies come out more and more as society becomes more equal, but we will get to a point where they are just laughed off.
I thought it was amusing. Maybe American Greetings is upset because they were trying to sell a similar line of T-shirts to Hot-Topic and this beat them to it.
I'd have to work pretty hard to work up to Dave Sim's level of bile.
What exactly did I say about him that implied a hatred of the male gender equivalent to his hatred of the female?
Here is more of his 'rationality'.If any of you have read all of this and would like to put up a well mannered defense, be my guest.
http://www.tcj.com/232/tangent0.html
Thank you, you represent maybe a tenth of the people on this board. I wonder why I even read this page sometimes, but there are a few rational people out here.
In addition to being a very good take on the atmosphere of CS departments, bringing the video games thread into it brings up another point. Playing video games as a child leads to a familiarity with computers and electronics, possibly groups of friends to talk about computers and electronics with, and a level of comfort with going into the electronics and computer sections of stores. Also scifi is still very sexist and male dominated, despite all the excellent female authors, and scifi often interests people in technological fields. Little boys are given the impression that these things are for them, while little girls are turned off by the sexist atmosphere and subliminally shooed away by all sorts of social factors. So the boys get interested at a young age, are more interested and encouraged in basic math, and have a leg up on the whole thing. The opposite happens with little girls and English but that's a whole other subject and we are talking about women in tech fields, where the money is at. Boys and girls perform equally on science and math tests until eigth or ninth grade, when being good at math is good for a boys reputation and bad for a girls, relatively.Then girls drop off rapidly and never catch up. It isn't that women aren't capable but there is a lot of social stuff that needs to be worked through.
Do you have a point?
No, he was talking about women in general, the "female void" leaching off the "male light". It is very very very mysogynistic stuff. If you are not uncomfortable with the idea of being a mysogynist that is your problem, I myself see no need to support this kind of thinking. Here's some quotes and writings for anybody who is curious what we are even talking about.t ml
http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.h
If you don't think that this stuff is mysogyny then go look up mysogyny.
Dave Sim is a mysogynist, he completly lost me as a potential buyer of his works because I read his little piece about women. He's not going to be getting any money from me.
Gee, being called an otaku is a lot like being called a nerd or a geek, isn't it? What's your point?
but japanese phones all make that noise by default on account of those subway perverts. not that you can hear it on the subway.
I meant that to be addressed to the other guy, you obviously have it in hand. Is your job Japan related, or did you learn it for personal interest?
Wow, Dave Sim...
Do you pick up manga? My kanji started getting a lot better when I started trying to read series with a lot of furigana.
Yeah, they could even call it a Jihad on Terror.
So they're selling this with girls in metal bras? That will probably work. People would watch a show with guys filling out tax forms if it was accompanied by models in fetish wear. Thanks Comedy Central.
"This is Unix, I know this!"-Jurrasic Park
'Handsome male leads' sounds kind of delusional...look at how many films Ron Jeremy is in...
Bleah, that was nausea inducing, particulary the gif showing how pliant the breasts are...I'll bet this is popular with necrophiliacs...