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Getting Small Press (Comics) To The Masses
Comicguy456 writes "At the recent Small Press & Alternative Comics Expo, a panel was held to discuss how to get the masses to check out indy comics. In this transcript, experts including Sean McKeever (The Waiting Place) and Max Ink (Amoeba Adventures) talk extensively about creating, selling, and marketing such books, as well as the small press industry in general. Manga is covered as well. " In many ways, the same advice here applies to people trying to get word about out bands/books/games etc etc.
...just put tits on the covers!
comics, especially independent comics is a dying medium. give up on getting joe wal-mart to read.
availability, portability, ease of distribution, (add a few more benefits that we'll never see because of the crippling restrictions placed on e-books by adobe and a slew of others).
/. story), - well, I guess everyone can infer their own conclusions.
Heh, considering a large percentage of newspaper people thinks that there will only be electronic news a few years down the line (see previous
My life in the land of the rising sun.
All my old favorites are here.
Katzenjammer Kids are still running after over 100 years.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
People interested in becoming creators of comics might want to check out Marvel's Epic line, which is accepting submissions from newcomers to the business. If your work is accepted they guide you through the process of basically getting the entire book together yourself, and then they publish it. Because they only have to worry about publishing and you do pretty much everything on the creative end of things, books don't have to sell incredibly well and they can remain viable entities, unlike Marvel's normal titles with are pretty much all top 100 sellers.
I believe it pays $8k to be split up among the creators as they see fit. The big drawback is that they gain ownership of any new characters you create if I remember correctly, but to people trying to break into the business this may be a great opportunity.
Of course, there are people in the web published arena getting their own interests involved.
Also, isn't Free Comic Book Day coming up soon? (May 3)
Perhaps a Comics Week should be declared?
The problem with the indy comic (or sometimes called comix) are that there is a huge amount of shit. This casts a bad light on the whole scene. Out of the gazillion indy comics that came out in the 1980's the only one still standing is TMNT, and that's because it was a cross-over to kids' fare. (The original TMNT were not like they are now.) And for a while, any moron could get published--people were buying them by the cartload just in case one gem was among them--what they ended up with was the equivelent of toilet paper. The industry now needs better, more insightful, and intelligent comics, not a new flood of crap. It damn near killed the whole indy industry last time--we don't want or need a repeat.
And something tells me that "Small Press Comics" don't have the kind of money to put into serious ad campaigns.
Now I suppose some of the more successful ones like UserFriendly are an exception to this, but unless these comics get a lot of free press/exposure, they will remain "Small Press".
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
independent comics are actually much more known to the average comics readers than independent music is to the typical music listener (everybody?) The reason I'm saying this is because nearly every comicbook store I know has quite a lot of the indy stuff, as opposed to the couple of music stores I know that carry indy music (especially since the amount of comic stores : music stores is like 10:1 at least!)
I'm not quite sure why this is, perhaps the market for comics is not as highly populated by mainstream stuff, leaving a lot of space for indy works, or perhaps the taste of comicbook fans is generally much more diverse? Who knows.
It's pretty weird though to read about independents not getting a lot of attention when you can walk into a comicbook store somewhere in Europe where they need to import everything and see independent comics lying all over the place.
n/t
Did not see anything about the $8000.
Basicly the process is that you send in some sample work, if Marvel likes what they see they contract out to you(you need to fill in the appropriate IRS forms) to do a comic based on what you sent them. Marvel sends you $500 as payment for the contracted work. Marvel may or may not print your stuff in the Marvel Epic Line of comics.
Since you are a contractor working for Marvel, Marvel ownes the work you do. However you can use Marvel owned characters in your comic, just no other trademarked characters.
Sort of interesting to see a bunch of comments moderated 5 already, just fifteen minutes after the article was posted. I started reading this article, since I had a small press publish my first (nonfiction) book, and I intend to publish my own stuff next year. After getting about halfway through, I decided the material wasn't worth my time. There are no doubt some good points here, but despite the claim from the submitter, this stuff is really mostly applicable to smalltime comicbook authors. And it's an incredibly lengthy piece considering the small amount of advice presented. It clocks in at nearly 10,000 words (for reference, books start at about 50,000 words), and I suspect the main advice in this piece could be extracted to make a new article barely 1000 words long.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
It has been ages since I bought an indy-comic. Partly because there nearest decent comic-store is an hour or so from here - and that seems to cater mainly to the young, inmature section of the market (more tits than in a porno-rag), partly because much of the mainstream norwegian comics are very good (karine haaland, Nemi, Pondus and EON & Wildlife to mention a few), and partly because the web provides me with more under- and overground comics than a sane man can read (Comander Kitty, Fur Will Fly, House of LSD and Kevin & Kell to take the first four on my list of bookmarks).
I don't think that indy-comics printed on dead trees has the importance they had for say, oh, ten to fifteen years ago. The ones that are good will find their way into mainstream magasines (at least this holds true for Norway), the ones that ain't good will die out. That, and the World Wide Wait is the underground printingpress of today; both for comics as well as for writing, art and music.
But as the subject says, that just my 2 cents (by the exchange rate anyway).
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
serializer.net. They strike a tone that finds that sweet spot between art, commercialism, and the necessary self-awareness of a frontier market/nascent medium. Also, they've got exclusive comix by two of my favorite artists, Ethan Persoff and Chris Onstad.
... and I don't mean the colors on cheap newsprint either.
Aside from the Sturgeon's Law factor (95% of everything is crap), one of the main reasons why I don't buy many new indy comix is because anything I'm likely to enjoy has a high probability of just plain disappearing:
Trade papers are the evidence of success: if it's good enough to get 4-8 issues collected, grab it!
Prime examples: "Bronze Age" by Eric Shanower, and "Girl Genius" by the manic Phil and Kaja Foglio
Design for Use, not Construction!
The people who read that kinda stuff probably see the material being so non-mainstream,underground, not well known,hard to find and get as part of the interest in it in the first place. This is definetly not a marketing problem. The people who want it know exactly where to get it.
No, UserFriendly has taken the opposite approach. That is a strip which fits easily in a small space, and on a VGA screen. They produced the product and made it available, with word of mouth and online advertising growing the audience.
So UserFriendly had a good-sized audience before publishing on paper. Publishing first and then trying to sell is a different problem -- and you don't know how successful you are until after you have spent some money on printing.
The paper approach can also use the Internet for indy work. Make some comics, use a copy shop to print a few copies (color or black & white), like 10-20. Put them up on Amazon, Half (those two if you registered in a way which gives you an ISBN/ISSN), and eBay. Have a home page with info. Buy some ads and get in comic indexes. See how long it takes to sell those few copies -- if you made a profit, you at least got your money back and can reinvest by making at least the same number of copies.
So, yeah, it's a good opportunity, but take it with a grain of salt.
Do domain names matter?
I propose that, in order to more effectively get comics to the masses (washed or unwashed), that we construct a giant worldwide network of these devices called "computers". These so-called computers would route data over a network - through satellites, over fields, and possibly even through thin air (we could call the last one 'Ethernet' - how funny would that be!).
This "network" of "computers" would be used by comic artists to publish their work at practically no cost. Each frame of their art would be piped into the homes of its comsumers over an ordinary phone line; they'd be compensated by overgrown conglomerates with too much VC money, who would pretend to their shareholders that this altruism was actually advertising.
I'd call this invention THE INTERNET. I'll file it right next to my patent application for the flying car - which is up for "review" next week, by the way.
Or would he be classed as small to medium with regards to production(no disrespect to Fred)
=If life was easy, i would be out of a job=
As opposed to the world of mainstream comics, full of pandering fanboys, artists with no understanding of form & anatomy, writers with no interest in human motivation, and publishers who treat their customers with contempt?
Comics in general have quality problems. People who've grown up in the superhero world (i.e. most Slashdotters) don't realize exactly how narrow of a genre superhero comics are, but it's got its own blind spots, just like the indies. It's not the sort of thing that's easy to get started in.
The recent upsurge in superhero movies don't change things very much; if anything, how they change their storylines to suit a mainstream audience should be quite instructive to comics fans. Look at the first X-Men movie and how streamlined the narrative was, compared to the dense soap-operatic narratives of the actual books. If you need to draw charts to explain crossover chronology you're never going to break out of the ghetto.
Quality problems are everywhere. But me, I'll take Acme Novelty Library over the Death of Superman any day.
Do domain names matter?
First, a plug: people interested in small press independent comics might be interested in my dinosaur comics. They are a study in genre and form!!
About getting comics to the masses: all I'm intending to do is self-publish and sell over my web site (and in a few comic book stores locally). When the price of self-publishing is so small, and you can distribute so easily, I don't see the real allure of professional printing. You can even get things professionally bound for a couple of dollars at your local copy shop.
dinosaur comics
If you self publish and want to reach the masses, you must find a distributor or sales agent. The masses go to bookstores. Bookstores hate buying, dealing with single or few title authors directly. If your product is good and the market is there, the books will probably sell.
Find a distributor or salesagent who deals in other independent publishers. These people have relationships established with distributors and stores. They can get your books (maybe) into stores.
You will still have to market and advertise on your own but it will mean zero if you don't already have the comics/books on the shelves in the stores.
The number one selling comics are those dumb ass archie dealies at the check out line. Comics decline is tied closely with the decline of the news stand. The publishers have choosen to go the safe route.
When you go to the supermarket news stand you're incure a risk. Every issue that doesn't get sold you have to refund back to the retailer. And it's not like you get product back. All you get is the cover back.
"Successful" comics of today sell at rates that would be considered failures 15-20 years ago. Marvel and DC are in the position of being more and more dependant on merchandising monies.
And it's not like the industry doesn't know this. The simple fact is it's too late. Comics are painted into a corner. You need capital to reinvent the distribution chain. And even if you were to get the capital you'd piss off the existing chain (comic book stores). And if you manage to reinvent the chain, it would mean the deal of the comic book store. Blah!
So when you ask about these small indie lables trying to be big, you have to ask yourself "why"?
Being big means being leveraged up the wazoo to investors and banks. Being big means have to suck up to hollywood to get some movie money.
Matt B. is one of the best indy comic i've found yet. Although some may not "get" it, if you're a single guy living near a big city, it will all make sense....
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
They have to stop sucking.
If you look at the comics from 30 years ago, you'll see complete stories in one comic - or possibly two at the most. Also, characters where recognizable even if they, say, changed clothes.
Today, both of these things have changed. To get a complete story, you've got to buy 10 or 15 comics. And this isn't only because the stories are longer and more complicated - todays comics seem to have more advertising instead of storyline. This is also prompting what I call "soap opera syndrome" - the comics are becoming WAY to melodramatic to try keep you interested between stories so that you'll buy the next one.
Also, a lot of the drawing is done so hastily (note that I'm not saying that the artists are bad), that the only way you can recognize the characters is because they have the same clothing from one frame to the next. Their facial features/size/build keeps changing.
Two things would make me buy comic books again (note that I wasn't alive 30 years ago, but I used to buy old comic books because they where good).
1) Enough with the cliffhangers! They suck! If you need more story, make a longer comic and charge more!
2) Draw well!
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
My son loves comics and is just starting to read. Unfortunately I've found little in the way of nonviolent, easy to read, not too cutesy, but fun comics. Recommendations?
Does Max Ink have an alterego? That name sounds soooooooooo made up. It HAS to be a cover for his alterego, superhero Large Condom. He wanders the streets at night, looking for cheap hookers to fuck.
I've setup the website ComicsConnector.com for specifically this purpose. Comics Connector is an online catalog devoted to independent comics. In addition to the catalog, we have a Features section with interviews, our exclusive Interview Yourself! feature and articles about comics. Check it out!
I have been getting mixed results with advertising/marketing my self-published comic project, Touch of Death. I initally started with the Overture/Google route, paying for people to come to my site and whatnot. But that didn't get any sort of results. I have ended up going to sites dedicated to comics and buying ad space there, with better results. The internet is great for the small publisher, there is very little money up front and you have a ton of control. For my money though the best response has been through a convention we did called Megacon in Orlando. It's a yearly convention (around the end of Feb) that nearly got 20,000 comic fans this year. I was able to sell a bunch of comics and nearly more importantly I met a large group of retailers who (if it weren't for our being there) became interested in the book.
How about writing your own?
StripCreator (the site I'm plugging) is a great little site that helps you do just that.
http://www.stripcreator.com
In Soviet Russia, beowulf clusters imagine YOU!
A friend of mine, Roberta Gregory, has travelled around the world promoting her comix ("Bitchy Bitch" is one of them) and been able to get by doing that. She also has found that some weeklies have been good for a partial income stream, as well as doing small shows at various restaurants and coffee shops and bookstores.
I guess the main thing is realizing, as with any art, that half of your job is promotion and sales, and adjusting your life accordingly.
The other thing is doing stuff people want to buy, not necessarily the fun things you want to do - if people want you to do comix with young women with large breasts and unicorns, then you spend part of your time doing that - it pays the bills.
But, overall, it's a hard business to make much money at - usually you have to have a second job.
> --- All Of The Above --- >
The "masses" don't read comic books, anyway. The "masses" of comic book readers, IMHO, don't walk into a store and walk out with a bunch of unknowns. They walk in knowing their favorites and looking for specific issues. The only way to attract the "masses" to an unknown is to get it known.
Sci-fi mags half a century ago had the right idea. They had a well-known author write a short story that could have sold the mag entirely on its own merit. The rest of the mag could be a number of shorts by unknown authors. Each reader then found the authors that appealed to them.
One good way of introducing indy comics is to include a short sample at the back of a popular comic at no extra cost to the reader. Including several would be an optimal way to expose the "masses" to a variety of indy comics they may find interesting.
Online comics is another good way of exposing indy comics to the "masses", though the crowd is a little different, so this must be nurtured carefully. (Too many people get used to their free online content and won't pay for the same content.)
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Why not release the "origin" editions of an indy comic on the Web? Sure, they may be prized by collectors, but the value goes up if 6 million people have heard of 'em, not just 60.
DjVu is very useful (open-source) to people who want to put out quality without all the bloat, while giving the readers a user-friendly experience.
Downloads faster.
Displays and renders faster.
Looks nicer on screen.
Consumes less client resources.
Can be OCRd and indexed.
There are plugins for all the majour platforms. Give it a try with some of the examples, and maybe consider using it for your next online comic or trade paperback?
- Many adults have better things to do than amass huge boxes of pamphlets in their closets. Trade collections sell better to the general audience.
- Local retailers are often unreliable; few people have easy access to a quality shop (Golden Apple, Comic Relief, et al.). Good luck following an indie series if your supplier can't be bothered to stock it properly.
- Manga are finally a significant force in the US, giving kids a great introduction to the medium. But when they outgrow Shonen Jump (300+ pages, $4.95/month) the average indie title (24-32 pages, $2.95/month) is going to be a really hard sell.
I would love to see indie comics publishers start up monthly "phonebook" anthologies to dump into the mainstream retail distribution network. Unfortunately the costs are likely prohibitive if you don't have eight hours a day of free advertising courtesy of Kid's WB and Cartoon Network. Meanwhile I'll keep going to Comic Relief every now and then and picking up all the trade collections that've been released since my last visit."I can't stop talking!"
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001
Hmm, perhaps they don't last b/c people don't buy them... assuming they won't last?
WRT trade paperbacks, comics go on my bookshelf, being books and all. I'm not a collector, with bags and acid-free backing boards and all that jazz. I like the trade pb editions because they are more durable - I can READ them without causing appreciable damage.
Freedom: "I won't!"
when i was little, we would buy a comic book at 7-11 for 55 cents. we would all read each others :-/ ). the comics would get damaged, destroyed, saved in a stack, read multiple times, etc... but one thing we did not thinking about was how much it was worth.
comics and trade them. we would even look at all the advertising, sucking each page dry for everything it was worth. (damn stamp ad ruined my credit rating at 14
alot of the people in the comic market right now are the ones who milked the market dry. using every dirty trick to make money off kids.
you want to be to an artist and still care about profit... something wrong with that notion.
thank you Mr. Barks, bob burden, steranko, miller, and all the rest who make such good comics...
ask me, the best way is to make the comic and give them to people who might like them. like kids.
I'm a chick. I didn't know about comics or manga or anime when I was younger, and now that I'm older (oh the grey hairs.), few of my friends (or enemies) are interested in these things. I've tried the simple technique of going to different comicbook selling sites and going to the local university library. I've seen a lot of Moore, and Miller and Gaiman, but I haven't been able to branch out further than that. The university library has an interesting selection of French comics - Baru and so on. I've been able to get all nostalgic about tintin and asterix, but I know I'm missing out of this whole crazy world out there.
So, after a long spew of babble, I just wanted to say that I'm happy to see this particular string talking about places to find good stuff. Thanks guys.
There is a very still info page here.
Considering how long it has been dead I guess it isn't going to happen :/
Marvel and DC should find big-ass 20 screen movie theatres in areas where there are no comic book stores for miles around. Then put in a small test stall in the area of the theatre where you play video games. One greasy ring-nosed punk to staff the counter. If it takes off, pull out and spin some small businessman a loan to open up in the area, or cut a deal with the threatre chain for a bigger chunk of space. If not, screw it.
This could pay off because a lot of the merchandise is cross over. They could sell movie spinnoffs too.
Something that hasn't been mentioned is the demographic of the comic reader. I've been going to comic shops and finding that the patrons are getting older and older. Where are the young comic readers?
I'll tell you. They're playing PS2/XBOX/console games, fragging each other online or queuing up for the latest hottest movie. Times have changed. There are that many more choices for a teenager's disposable income. Comics just can't cut it anymore.
The way I see it, comics will get progressively more and more ghetto-ized. It's a real pity (me being a comic fan). I still think that comics have a place; nothing else combines elements of film and the written word and when done well, the results are sublime. But realistically, comics as a medium is dying.
..until it gets between me and my phish cds or my cowboy be-bop dvds.
I'd like to see more stories like this. Comics, particularly independent comics, are something that seems to be of interest to this community, and that I don't see discussed much here.