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The Pentagon, MMORPGs, and Catching Osama
MarkRH writes "I know, it looked like a troll to me too. But apparently a Pentagon-funded group, the Highlands Forum, is investigating the possibility of fighting terrorism by postulating that terrorist networks are similar to the online communities found in MMORPGs. By studying interaction within a community like Everquest, the military hopes to find hints on how to crack Al Qaeda." See also the "Uncloaking Terrorist Networks" post of several months back.
simply assinine is what comes to mind. Well they got money to burn so wha the hell, wonder how many $9.95 a month subscriptions their budget can buy?
Post anti-MS: Funny, Insightful.
Post anti-Linux: Offtopic, Troll.
Could make a MMPORPG about catching Osama, they've already got a propaganda FPS game...
Banaaaana!
Personally, with the comments traded between gamers, i'm a little uncomfortable with anti-terrorist types studying gamers. Something that is commonly said in jest could easily be taken out of context by these government personnel and blown way out of proportion...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Finally, the age-old question is answered:
How can we play Everquest all day and get paid for it?
"Well, we didn't find Osama but my Human Leiutenant is as level 53!"
Does this make Everquest Gamers Terrorists?
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
ALL GEEKS ARE TERRORISTS!!!
Yet another reason I feel unloved... Now my neighbours will hate me too!
If PKers will now be called terrorists.
They'll pursue this for a while then quit - the false positives will be off the hook.
The thing is, most MMORG players in the USA are loyal Americans who'd love to help. Spying on them is just buring down the house to roast a pig.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
I doubt terrorists have the same immeadiate and direct communication that exists in on-line games. The less communication, the less chance for discovery.
In any case, I know MMORPG players. The only thing they accomplish in the real world is living in the basement and drinking Dew. Hell set up suspected terrorists with an EQ subscription and the only they they'll blow up in orcs.
Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
"Fsck you, we're in North Temple of Veeshan today."
"STFU our guild reserved it three months ago!"
"Piss off!"
"You piss off!"
(A random cadre of level 60+ wizards run by, complete with manaburn. "For Innoruuk!" They cast, take out three dragons, and then die to a mobile much lower level than they are.)
Meanwhile, back at the Bat Office..
Mr. Powell: Obviously, the Islamic Fundamentalists play Tier'dal Wizards.
Following this trend, this makes me want a "Bushes" White House add-on for the Sims.
Dude, where's my packet?
Is to subject them to l337 sp34k all day. U.S. pwnz Bin L4d3n.
Al-Qaeda is a loosely affiliated network of nodes trying to acheive a similar goal across large distances and online MMORPG is pretty analagous(when speaking in terms of mathematical models). I'm sure there are a few insights to be had.
-
A government paid job playing^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstudying online games.
Where do I apply?
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Fight terrorism by addressing the reason *why* these people are driven a level of frustration that would cause them to commit such acts.
Ask the average Joe on the street (in the US) about why September 11th happened and you'll hear something like, "evil doer". This befuddles me. These people aren't driven by pure evil but rather extreme frustration. Until the root of their frustration is addressed, I wouldn't be surprised if this continues forever.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Read this article at ABC News ABC News about the FBI pressured to NOT investigate before 911.
Sincerely,
W00t
He pockets a BILLION dollars in aide money to his many bank accounts and then tells his people they are poor because of the evil west. Since you seem to be in touch with all these extremists please enlighten us why you find joy in having your children exploding in an attempt to hurt others? Notice its nobody middle aged or even old, just young kids that have been tought all their lives to hate the US. Now thats fucked up, using your children as ammunition to fight your war.
Waiting for your reply.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
The Spanish American War
World War I
War on Poverty
World War II
Korean War
Vietnam War
War on Drugs
War on Iraq
War on Terror
(War on Iraq again?)
Sound familiar?
Question everything
U.S. foreign policy.
eg. The UN have reported that an estimated 6000 children die of preventable illness and malnutrition in Iraq EVERY MONTH due to a lack of food and medicine. This is attributed directly to the U.S. led trade sanctions against Iraq. 6000 children every month for approx ten years = 720,000 children.
The U.S. still maintains a military presence in the region and regularly subjects parts of Iraq to aerial bombardment.
The U.S. publicly suspects Iraq has chemical weapons. I wonder if they are anything like the depleted uranium weapons used by the U.S. against Iraq during the gulf war ?
And for ten points name the only country ever to use nuclear weapons for purposes other than testing ? America. Certainly some time ago now, but the U.S. is the only country to use nuclear weapons in anger and the vital military target chosen by the govt. of the day ? Two large civilian populations.
Hooray for America, the single greatest terrorist threat the world has ever faced.
it's been said that a having a war for peace
is like fucking for virginity.
They're not looking for Osama bin Laden's online character.
Still, I can't help but laugh at the thought of it:
"Sir, we've found him! He's playing EQ right now, under the character 'Jihad' as a Level 60 Shadow Knight!"
".....Damn! Look at that...he just 0wn3d that Level 60 Paladin in PvP!"
Zodiac Survey
Everquest plays YOU!
Disclaimer: I am a twink of Legacy of Sorrow.
http://public-integrity.org/money.pdf
enough evidence?
The Christian god has a son and his name is Jesus.
Any god which doesn't have a son called Jesus who was crucified is NOT a Christian god by definition.
Therefore, Islam and Judaism do NOT refer to the Christian god.
You're right in this instance, a war on Al Qaeda, or on Saddam himself is much better defined.
But we have wars on techniques all the time.
I love my kids, but I have war against some of their eating habits.
I enjoy the developers that work for me, and together we all war against certain coding habits.
Yes, these are wars that never end.
So if the root problem is the frustration of a people, a people unused to and uneducated in more acceptable ways to protest, than it is reasonable to have war on a technique, a war on terror. Agree or disagree with the Palestinians -- that's irrelevant for this argument, but just think what would have happened two years ago if the Palestinians en masse had protested using accepted non-violent techniques. Sit-ins, non-violent civil disobedience, etc.
But you're right, I don't think that that is what Bush means, and I believe that is a loss for us all.
We have *always* been at war with Eastasia.
Eurasia has always been our ally.
Oceania, Oceania, 'tis for thee...
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
So now we're paying government employee's to play games? Can I have that job?
There is no analogy between everquest and terrorist networks. The later work in a defined organisational structure known as cells. These cells have very specific ways of communicating which guarantee anonymity to the maximum amount of cells.
Now how does this relate to how people form a group in EQ? Well, it just doesn't. EQ players don't need that form of anonymity. They don't have different cells working together towards the same goal. While I will admit everyone who plays EQ has the same goal of 'getting more xp'...that's not the same thing, is it? You don't need (or have) all these cells interconnected, talking to each other to 'overthrow a system'.
What the pentagon will find is the mechanics of how a gamne is played...which will bear no reemblance whatsoever to how terrorist cells are organised.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
because al-queda as a terror network is a virtual network, while the Rand people are treating it like a video game. i fail to see how a group who's main purpose seems to be to fuck our (in the US) shit up can be described in language remotely similar to everquest et al. i guess you could say that they act like a bunch of 12 year old PKers. maybe they are just pkers and the whole world is a game. *hits tilde* woah.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
Man now i have to be 10x more careful who i tank in ao, now it could be some fbi dude with not only a bad char but a pair of handcuffs and a screwed up lack backing him.
"you sir have gankz0red a Fbi officer and are sentanced to 5 weeks helping n00bs in by1 of Omni ent"
YARG
I can just picture it, the people at the Highlands Group sitting around, clients gone for the recession, playing video games to pass the time. Then one of them goes, "Hey, the Pentagon is spending billions to fight terrorism, let's try to get them to pay us to play these games!"
And they did.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Should I be rolling on the floor laughing or scared out of my mind? God, I knew the government had some way out ideas, but I think they still need to get a clue when it comes to internet stuff. Appoint /. types to be their tech advisors!
Oh... All we need is an envelope with a bomb in it.. address it to "Osama" and ask a friend to pass it on. Within five people, he'll have the envelope...
You voted for the other guy?
Well, your other guy was in charge when Osama and his muhajeddins were in Bosnia right next to US soldiers.
When saudis were pumping men and arms into the region (where the muslim 'moderate' in charge had written a book saying that Islam can never live in harmony with other social structures)
When Osama got a a Bosnian Muslim passport in 95-96.
When Osama was in Kosovo in the late 90's.
Spare me the US wants to make friends BS.
The US' main strength is that it creates havoc so as to better profit from it.
As someone who'se in-laws lost a lot of family on Sept 11, 1973 during the US sponsored military coup and who has lived in south america for a parts of three decades, i find it insulting when this simplistic drivel is spouted.
And dont ever make the 'other guys; seem like better choices. Carter got a prize but his twit in charge Brzinski was the one who stated in his book that a few lunatic fanatics that they let on the loose is worth the fall os the soviet empire.
YOU FOLKS CREATED HIM.
You want to punish someone?
Line up everyone who had a hand in dealings with the Beaner.
im sure that would be the single most popular firing squad the world has ever seen.
zac
Let's see... my drugs support terrorism ... but my video game addictions help combat terrorism. Guess that makes us even again.
-Rabbit
If you want the full scoop on NCW, some DoD guys wrote an entire book on it.
Network Centric Warfare: Developing and Leveraging Information Superiority
I still don't understand it, though. I think the computer network analogy is a good one for conceptual purposes, but I'm not sure that's all there is to it.
(1) Bunny-hopping
(2) Camping
(3) Hacking the client
- undoware.ca
YOU play EVERQUEST.
Sorry, it had to be done.
"There ought to be limits to, uh, to freedom."
Delta Force: Land Warrior... rules! I play it nightly online :)
...and the 'flexibility' of a 'network organization'.
:)
:)
The CoC (Chain of Command) is much 'shorter' with a 'network' or 'cell' based organization. One lead 'cell' or 'network node' for the 'planning boss' and every other 'operations type cell/network node' can communicate/plan/etc. directly with the 'boss cell'.
A 'shorter' CoC equals a smaller 'decision loop'. One of the primary (perceived) advantages to superior C3I (Command, Coontrol, Communications, and Intelligence - which is really what makes the U.S. very superior on the modern battlefield) is the ability to 'get inside the enemy decision loop' - i.e. the ability to change tactics and objectives based on what the enemy is seen to be attempting and to do so before the enemy sees what the Good Guys are attempting and most importantly to be doing something operationally before the enemy can issue orders thru his CoC in an attempt to thwart the Good Guys. Think of it this way - you're playing Warcraft against your buddy, but there's a 4 min. delay before any of his orders to his units are 'initiated'. Also, when the orders are issued you are given a brief report of what his issued orders are. This is what superior C3I gives you.
For a much better explanation of what I'm talking about, read 'Every Man a Tiger' by U.S.A.F. Gen. Chuck Horner and Tom Clancy. There's a couple of chapters that show what I am attempting to explain in great detail, but the book explains it far better than I can in a post to '/.'.
As far as the Good Guys and their CoC - a network type CoC would be great. The basic advantage implied by the article = operations would be controlled by 'node to node' comms as opposed to all changes in operational planning and activites being routed thru a (much slower and in the case of CT type operations and the assets used in CT type operations totally uneccesary) 'traditional military' or 'traditional intelligence agency' CoC.
In short - desk warrior X would be given updates, but the office of desk warrior X would not longer be a 'required stop' in the CoC.
One of the reasons CoCs exist is to make sure that no decision is made by someone who lacks the required 'view of the big picture' in terms of 'zoom'. A Lt. on a battlefield could make a decision on something that might look great to him but was a very bad decision when looking at the strategic picture. A simple example - Lt. X is guarding a bridge. Overwheling enemy forces are approaching the bridge. The safest bet for Lt. X is to blow the bridge. He could fall back without blowing the bridge but he'd risk the possibility that his command might be caught and overrun.
Lt. X is unaware of the big counterattack forming to his rear.
It is sometimes impractical to inform every Lt. of the big counterattack. So a directive might exist that would say 'Demolition of bridges must be cleared at divisional level'. This insures that the decision to blow any bridge must go thru a CoC that included all Division command 'nodes'.
In general, the more competent/well informed/independent your command 'nodes' are, the shorter the CoC you can 'get away with' (see importance of 'shorter' CoC above).
The units in CT warfare are often small teams of individuals, with the only real difference between the 'team leader' and the other members of the team being who is cleared for 'big picture' information. With such units a big CoC is not needed to insure the 'safety of strategic planning'. There is no strategic planning per se. 4 bad guys are in hotel J in Vienna. Should team Z grab them now? Team Z needs an answer before the bad guys finish breakfast. A network style CoC would let Team Z zing this question to the 'big picture command nodes' of every Good Guy CT organization/intelligence service/etc. directly, as opposed to asking the question of the head of CT for the Nation that Team Z belongs to, then the head of CT organization of Nation Z asking the similar offices of several Good Guy Nations, 'thru channels' (read: slowly).
I'm hoping that made sense. Odds aren't in my favor however.
In short for the last time - keep saying 'Bush sucks' while playing Everquest. RPG players with 'counter-culture' opinions don't target daycare centers with shrapnel-enhanced explosive devices. Everyone who chases bad guys for a living is aware of this.
There's also some big communications traffic/security/etc. issues (advantages if you don't own Space, COMSATs, etc.) involving 'network style CoCs', but that's not a big deal for the Good Guys. For the bad guys - they have no traditional 'dedicated' 'communications routing node' if they use a 'network style' CoC. Which means that 'comm routing node' (think 'equivalent of the communications security office of WW2 Germany - which was penetrated by Allied intelligence so almost all sensitive comms were compromised by the penetration of 1 agency') doesn't exist. This means that communications have to be attacked the 'hard way' (in very general terms - 'one message at a time'), as opposed to penetrating the communications office and getting a crack at everything sent to everyone by everyone by default. This is one reason why bad guys change cellular phones all the time. Use a new phone every 2 days and maybe your comms aren't being monitored at the source. Unless your cellular phone supplier is penetrated. That would be bad.
Anonymous Cowardly Good Guy
Great, now I know what my tax dollars are being used for.
When I read batshit insanity like this, it reminds me of the Nazis during their final desperate years of power coming up with some extremely wierd so-called weapons to defeat their enemies, such as the wind cannon, or the assault rifle that could shoot around corners. It also reminds me of the CIA's experiments with LSD on American citizens in the 60's.
Trying to find patterns in terrorism in a game is so absolutely brainlessly stupid I can't believe that some moron came up with the idea. Real people are infinitely more complex than a game, and real life suffering, oppression and bloodshed can not be simulated in a game, or else people would not be playing UT or Quake.
Aren't they desperate or what to try something like this???
They must be really really desperate, afterall Al Qaeda people are 'professional' (but let's say that professional into wrong direction damnit!)
No, this is not a troll but it really seems to be a very desperate act from desperate people. And afterall Al Qaeda people are professional, otherwise they wouldn't have pulled the thing last year. Although they might not do it for the cash, just for pure idioticy & wrong beliefs. It is not violence which makes the changes nowadays, it's the politics. i just wish that Osama Bin Laden's professionality went to the other way, quite the opposite direction, fighting against terrorism instead of being a terrorists....
Sigh, can i now go back to play CS, oh Please?
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
--
These people aren't driven by pure evil but rather extreme frustration.
--
Nobody acts without "reasons". Hitler published an impassioned rationalization for his upcoming genocide in Mein Kampf that, if you read it, sounds oh so similar to the B.S. moral justifications that you hear coming from Arafat, Saudi, or Egyptian officials.
You might blame the rest of Europe for punishing Germany too much for the rise of Naziism before after WWI. That doesn't absolve Hitler or his followers for the sins of WWII.
To me, the core of Islamic fundementalism is equally based in anti-semitism as Naziism was, and is nothing for us to sympathize with.
It only legitimizes these deviant beliefs to try to "understand" them. Since the radical followers of this ideology have as closed minds as any hard-core cult member, it's too late to try to deprogram them, especially when the country they are in is feeding their hatred with a steady dose of hate. All you can hope to do is neutralize their threat to the civilized world to such a degree that they realize on a practical level that they are just not going to get what they want regardless of their degree of sacrifice. And if this has no effect other than creating a slow and protracted ethnic suicide, one suicide bomber after the next, then so be it.
To reward that behavior with any sort of perceived dignity, sympathies, or undue attention will only further encourage it in a "natural born killers" sort of way. Attention on the overcrowded world stage is what they really want.
Reducing the equation to "evil doers", as simplistic as it may sound, is indeed the proper tactic, because let's face it, they've already dehumanized us in their eyes.
September 13 2001: "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It's our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
March 13 2002: "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
And to think my taxes are helping pay for this. Sure my money's being spent in far worse ways, but I can think of so many better places to put it. It still amazes me we pay people to do this stuff.
Developers: We can use your help.
"character x" is planning to nuke "target y". . .
Just imagine an ECHELON analysis of that. . .
Oh, and the H2 Hummer is the ugliest thing I've had the misfortune of laying eyes on. Thinking back on it makes me want to stab out my mind's eye.
Murphy was an optimist.
Hezbollah: Can ne1 spare some plat?
Osama: Yes my brother, Death to America! Do you have the box cutter of holy might? Then to Jihad!
high-level black magic spells.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
He was working help desk for the University computer labs. He installed Everquest and played all his time, in between helping people out. He then sold his items on eBay at the end of the summer and bought a car.
He did all sorts of things on the school's time, like fill out surveys for money, etc.
Take that Joe Lieberman!
where the terrorits all gather. increase the budget!