I insult only those who would needlessly be insulted I suppose. Anyone, regardless of profession, has the right to be paid for their work. Perelman was given the offer to be paid, but he took the road less traveled, opting to give something he took from his mind and share it with the world freely. I guess it is things like this that got me into the Open Source movement, because money shouldn't always be the motivation. Sometimes giving something to the community, something that you toiled away on for a huge portion of your life creates a better world for tomorrow. Anyone that wants a life of luxury has a good chance of getting it if they put in the time. I am of the belief that those that put in the time to become masters of a field, and then give selflessly back to the world, should be celebrated as they are a rarity. All of humanity is richer for their efforts regardless of the motivation of the selfless giver.
I'm not sure why you felt insulted, as I feel you've insulted a large number of great minds when you assumed that money should be the primary goal in any effort worth dedicating yourself to.
Actually I was responding to jjohnson, who in his question asked for enlightenment.
He stated his reasons, we understand them.
If you understood them, why are you still asking questions about them?
Instead, I too am curious what makes his refusal ethically significant to you.
Because he refuses to work in a system he feels has been driven by cut throat politics. Because he, with all his eccentricities, was able to reach above all of that and find comfort in a life not dictated by men with agenda's who'd smile while sticking a dagger in your back for a place in history.
While your selected quotes indicate a consistent and logical approach to ethics (barring that Perelman's characterization of mathematics as a dishonest culture isn't nuanced and may even be self-serving), we also have a quote from another reply at your level:
The commercialization of mathematics offends him. He was deeply hurt by the many generous offers he received from U.S. universities after he published his proof. He apparently felt he had made a contribution that was far greater than any amount of money--and rather than express their appreciation in appropriately mathematical ways, by studying his proof and working to understand it--they were trying to take a shortcut and basically pay him off. By the same token, the million dollars will probably offend him. I don't think we will be hearing from Perelman again.
That quote is taken by the author of TFA who admittedly has never spoken with Perelman. What I've read from Perelman was taken by sources with whom he did speak with, and in them I found nothing about his disdain over the perception of being bought off. Perhaps that is just creative writing on the part of TFA, or maybe it is the truth, but I cannot tell. From my readings I took from it that it was his belief that math isn't something that should need a monetary reward, that the simple discovery of a new proof and the recognition that automatically goes with it are more than enough. It is a rare day we get to advance the knowledge of mankind, and he did so in a noble fashion, all the while his peers (Yau, Cao, and Zhu) worked hard to take the credit.
Assuming that characterization is correct, then it's not fair on Perelman's part to dictate what other peoples' perception of a reward should be.
I don't believe he tried to push his views on the world. When they tried to give him the Fields metal, they spent weeks trying to talk him into it, they even gave him three options; accept and come; accept and don’t come, and they'd send the medal later; third, I don’t accept the prize. From the very beginning, he told them he didn't accept. He didn't tell them that the prize and those that accept it were his lessers, just that he did not want it. He felt that if the proof was correct, that was all then he needed with no further recognition.
For example, what sort of communication did he make with the outside world to curb those job offers? How are they supposed to read his mind and determine what he wants for recognition?
This sounds a lot like a problem that will work itself out naturally. Why should a winner of a contest/prize have to announce to the world their intentions and how they'd like to be recognized? These people, companies, universities came to him, he has no responsibility to anyone to even return their calls as it were.
This sounds a lot like spite (as a strategy of altruism, I apologize for the connotation), sacrificing benefits both to yourself and others in order to harm someone in particular. While there can be ethical versions of spite, this seems more driven by pride than by some ethical standard.
Finally, I don't have the ability to distinguish between an eccentric ethical system wh
...decided to get a small "real" laptop, and I've been thrilled with it. 4.5 lbs, 13" display, 7 hours of battery life.
Make and model? I'd love to find a 13" screen with 7 hours of battery. I have an Acer One D150, 10.1" screen, and it gets ~5 hours of battery. I like my netbook, but I have huge hands and could go with something slightly larger. My experience with larger screens is they have a much worse battery life, so I'd really like to hear about what you are using. Thanks!
So you start out by saying we need to keep electing Presidents from the Repubs and Dems because that is the only way the President will be able to accomplish anything. Then you finish it up by saying not even a Dem as President with a Dem controlled House and Senate can get anything done... which is it? By the way, Ron Paul is a Repub, not a Libertarian.
I don't pay much attention to all the hand waving of both parties, but I'm always amazed at how many people think we simply have to maintain the status quo and keep electing the same two groups who consistently do the same crazy things. But hey, don't let that stop you from bashing some party that doesn't have a chance of even getting a spot in the Presidential debates due to the underhandedness of the current two party system nor has ever been elected to the ranks of President. Dang evil Libertarians, surely they are the bane of the political atmosphere with all that power they don't wield against us...
Sorry for the double post, I meant to mention I thought it was a little odd that no one has released his name. That the family hasn't been splashed all over the news media, asking for this persons return, with the news doing articles on all the good works DAi has done, and really re-enforcing the image of the altruistic nature of giving free laptops and cell phones in the name of being a friendly neighbor (true or not). Then again, this is only the first day it was announced, maybe tomorrow this will show up in the media. Until then, I guess we will have to deal with more ongoing Tiger Woods coverage.
Here and here, thats basically the best bits on it that I could find with my Google-Fu. Of course none of them are definitive smoking guns that could taken as 100% reliable (but the nature of the CIA would make it hard to pin down any blown Op as belonging to them). However it is an interesting development that wouldn't surprise many if it is true.
It seems that if each channel is already broadcasting whatever commercial they decide (and aren't just allowing some 3rd party time to broadcast over the channel for commercials), they could simply normalize the audio to be in tune with their shows prior to airing. They'd just need to process the commercials they receive one time before sticking them in rotation, and tada, no more screaming commercials... or am I misunderstanding how this works? Presently I can only imagine this is due to laziness on part of the channel, and a twisted sense of greed on part of the offending commercials.
Why is everyone surprised that super-earths are orbiting other stars? I've always wondered that.
I think it has to do with the fact that finding exo-planets, especially ones only a few times larger than our planet, is still something new. We've only been able to confirm extrsolar planets for 17 years, and it has only been in the last 5 years that we've been detecting anything even remotely as small as Earth. I agreed that as time goes on these will be less note worth, as we are getting better at detection, at least until we find something in the.8 to 2.0 Earth masses range which would be quite the news.
Er... ever tried asking the bus driver to tell you when you get to the stop that's nearest to such-and-such? It works surprisingly well...
Until you are in a foreign country, don't speak the language well, and are meet with a driver who has no patience for the American wasting his time.
I recently went with my wife to Germany. Our first steps around Berlin Tegel airport was to find where the Hauptbahnhof was located (translates to central train station, or something close to that). Unfortunately we didn't recall the word for hauptbahnhof at the time. We went to the advice counter in Tegel airport and asked them where we should go, they stumbled through their English and told us that we should go outside, get on a bus, and it would take us there. That sounded so much easier than it was, I suppose if we would have thought to ask what stop to get off of it would have been simpler. If only because the first bus we found, we had no luck asking him if he went to the train station. He yelled at my wife after she asked him if he spoke English, saying "German! German!" and then made some motions back out to the bus platform. So I did my best to apologize and we got off his bus and went to find another one. While we were looking around for some kind of sign that would point us in the right direction, the original bus driver kindly motioned for me to come back, so we did, he said something in German, than asked for 2.40 Euro's. So we took our seat, with our ton of luggage, and off we went into Berlin, without a clue where we were headed or where we should get off. After 10-15 minutes of driving and making several stops, my wife and I were getting worried. At this point our previously empty bus was now brimming full of Germans and my wife and I were starting to get a little more excited about where the hell we were. A woman behind us over heard our conversation and saved the day, explained that we missed one of the Hauptbahnhof stops already, but that we were almost to the main Hauptbahnhof which is the one we needed anyhow. Once we got to there it was pretty obvious we wouldn't have missed it, as it is a huge glass building with an equally large sign. All that said, Germany was an awesome adventure, and by large everyone we meet was very nice. It seems so long as you make an attempt to speak the language, you'll often find many nice people who know as much English if not more than I knew their language.
At the end of my adventure, I made a note to always remember to bring 1) a watch to tell the time, 2) a cell phone that works in the country you are visiting, more so if you are meeting up with friends, 3) a GPS that has a map, if only to confirm I'm where I'm supposed to be, or at least headed in the right direction.
The way you use the word commodity, it sounds like a bad thing. Can you clarify your statement further, as I'm not sure I follow why its being a commodity is an issue. I personally don't care who makes a game so long it is enjoyable. However I will not give repeat business to a company that has burnt me in the past. But otherwise, if it is a clone or not, so long as it is fun, I don't care who wrote it, be it the original author or some derivative work.
I don't think that makes things much easier...people have quite subjective perceptions when it comes to the size of Moon.
Why would it be subjective? The width would appear to be the same to everyone who looks up at the moon, being 1/8 to 1/10 of the diameter. There is some guessing I suppose to figure out how small that would be, but it is more spatial recognition, nothing subjective... unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, as what you said was kind of subjective;-)
Man oh man, agreed 100%. Sitting in a chair most days really destroys your lower back. My readings on the space program taught me that the lower back is one of the first to atrophy, and possibly the hardest to rebuild. Every few weeks my lower back gives me problems...
Agreed. If anything the people who broke the internet were all the webmasters expecting to pay for their sites, and possibly get some cash flow, via an ever increasing number of ads litering their sites. Then once other webmasters saw that hey, I can make a few pennies here and there, why shouldn't I get on this almost free cash boat. If webmasters (and their clients / company) weren't so cheap/greedy, then we'd never be in this situation. I miss the days of dial up if only because their was real content on the web for a good decade without the bloat of millions of ads.
Recently I started getting 15 mod points every time they get allotted, whereas I used to only get 5. I've also noticed a lot more of the comments seem to be getting moderation, so I'm assuming 15 is the new norm. Just curious and wanted to confirm this. Thanks
Really, wow. I didn't know that my client had any effect on the internet, especially in a negative way. It might be a hack but it is a useful hack for when you just want a site to load but it keeps hanging on a few of the ad / image server. Sometimes the problem is bigger than a few object/elements. Use the right tool for the right job and all of that.
Why do you care how it is blocked? In many ways it is similar to how DoS attacks are blocked along major backbone routes. You just blackhole the IP, telling it to go to a local, non-answering IP. In this case you are just blackholing the domain, sending it to an IP that shouldn't be answering (unless you want it to like you did using localhost to answer more quickly for sites you care to mirror). Please elaborate with what is wrong with using the hosts file in a way that is effective? I do understand that using the hosts with a big list can cause DNS resolution slowdowns (as it parses the hosts list, in memory, for every DNS call, prior to making a call to your cache or DNS server), but if the list isn't that big it isn't noticeable. So please, what is this fundamental disagreement about?
Troll? The GP never said anything about giving doctors the right to kill people, he said people should have the right to kill themselves. No one should need to stick around until the bitter painful end if they do not want to. It should be a valid option, and at the very least it should be legal (as all victimless crimes should be).
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I insult only those who would needlessly be insulted I suppose. Anyone, regardless of profession, has the right to be paid for their work. Perelman was given the offer to be paid, but he took the road less traveled, opting to give something he took from his mind and share it with the world freely. I guess it is things like this that got me into the Open Source movement, because money shouldn't always be the motivation. Sometimes giving something to the community, something that you toiled away on for a huge portion of your life creates a better world for tomorrow. Anyone that wants a life of luxury has a good chance of getting it if they put in the time. I am of the belief that those that put in the time to become masters of a field, and then give selflessly back to the world, should be celebrated as they are a rarity. All of humanity is richer for their efforts regardless of the motivation of the selfless giver.
I'm not sure why you felt insulted, as I feel you've insulted a large number of great minds when you assumed that money should be the primary goal in any effort worth dedicating yourself to.
Who said anything about understanding?
Actually I was responding to jjohnson, who in his question asked for enlightenment.
He stated his reasons, we understand them.
If you understood them, why are you still asking questions about them?
Instead, I too am curious what makes his refusal ethically significant to you.
Because he refuses to work in a system he feels has been driven by cut throat politics. Because he, with all his eccentricities, was able to reach above all of that and find comfort in a life not dictated by men with agenda's who'd smile while sticking a dagger in your back for a place in history.
While your selected quotes indicate a consistent and logical approach to ethics (barring that Perelman's characterization of mathematics as a dishonest culture isn't nuanced and may even be self-serving), we also have a quote from another reply at your level:
The commercialization of mathematics offends him. He was deeply hurt by the many generous offers he received from U.S. universities after he published his proof. He apparently felt he had made a contribution that was far greater than any amount of money--and rather than express their appreciation in appropriately mathematical ways, by studying his proof and working to understand it--they were trying to take a shortcut and basically pay him off. By the same token, the million dollars will probably offend him. I don't think we will be hearing from Perelman again.
That quote is taken by the author of TFA who admittedly has never spoken with Perelman. What I've read from Perelman was taken by sources with whom he did speak with, and in them I found nothing about his disdain over the perception of being bought off. Perhaps that is just creative writing on the part of TFA, or maybe it is the truth, but I cannot tell. From my readings I took from it that it was his belief that math isn't something that should need a monetary reward, that the simple discovery of a new proof and the recognition that automatically goes with it are more than enough. It is a rare day we get to advance the knowledge of mankind, and he did so in a noble fashion, all the while his peers (Yau, Cao, and Zhu) worked hard to take the credit.
Assuming that characterization is correct, then it's not fair on Perelman's part to dictate what other peoples' perception of a reward should be.
I don't believe he tried to push his views on the world. When they tried to give him the Fields metal, they spent weeks trying to talk him into it, they even gave him three options; accept and come; accept and don’t come, and they'd send the medal later; third, I don’t accept the prize. From the very beginning, he told them he didn't accept. He didn't tell them that the prize and those that accept it were his lessers, just that he did not want it. He felt that if the proof was correct, that was all then he needed with no further recognition.
For example, what sort of communication did he make with the outside world to curb those job offers? How are they supposed to read his mind and determine what he wants for recognition?
This sounds a lot like a problem that will work itself out naturally. Why should a winner of a contest/prize have to announce to the world their intentions and how they'd like to be recognized? These people, companies, universities came to him, he has no responsibility to anyone to even return their calls as it were.
This sounds a lot like spite (as a strategy of altruism, I apologize for the connotation), sacrificing benefits both to yourself and others in order to harm someone in particular. While there can be ethical versions of spite, this seems more driven by pride than by some ethical standard. Finally, I don't have the ability to distinguish between an eccentric ethical system wh
I, for one, welcome our no new overlords!
...decided to get a small "real" laptop, and I've been thrilled with it. 4.5 lbs, 13" display, 7 hours of battery life.
Make and model? I'd love to find a 13" screen with 7 hours of battery. I have an Acer One D150, 10.1" screen, and it gets ~5 hours of battery. I like my netbook, but I have huge hands and could go with something slightly larger. My experience with larger screens is they have a much worse battery life, so I'd really like to hear about what you are using. Thanks!
So you start out by saying we need to keep electing Presidents from the Repubs and Dems because that is the only way the President will be able to accomplish anything. Then you finish it up by saying not even a Dem as President with a Dem controlled House and Senate can get anything done... which is it? By the way, Ron Paul is a Repub, not a Libertarian.
I don't pay much attention to all the hand waving of both parties, but I'm always amazed at how many people think we simply have to maintain the status quo and keep electing the same two groups who consistently do the same crazy things. But hey, don't let that stop you from bashing some party that doesn't have a chance of even getting a spot in the Presidential debates due to the underhandedness of the current two party system nor has ever been elected to the ranks of President. Dang evil Libertarians, surely they are the bane of the political atmosphere with all that power they don't wield against us...
Sorry for the double post, I meant to mention I thought it was a little odd that no one has released his name. That the family hasn't been splashed all over the news media, asking for this persons return, with the news doing articles on all the good works DAi has done, and really re-enforcing the image of the altruistic nature of giving free laptops and cell phones in the name of being a friendly neighbor (true or not). Then again, this is only the first day it was announced, maybe tomorrow this will show up in the media. Until then, I guess we will have to deal with more ongoing Tiger Woods coverage.
Got a citation for that?
Here and here, thats basically the best bits on it that I could find with my Google-Fu. Of course none of them are definitive smoking guns that could taken as 100% reliable (but the nature of the CIA would make it hard to pin down any blown Op as belonging to them). However it is an interesting development that wouldn't surprise many if it is true.
It seems that if each channel is already broadcasting whatever commercial they decide (and aren't just allowing some 3rd party time to broadcast over the channel for commercials), they could simply normalize the audio to be in tune with their shows prior to airing. They'd just need to process the commercials they receive one time before sticking them in rotation, and tada, no more screaming commercials... or am I misunderstanding how this works? Presently I can only imagine this is due to laziness on part of the channel, and a twisted sense of greed on part of the offending commercials.
Why is everyone surprised that super-earths are orbiting other stars? I've always wondered that.
I think it has to do with the fact that finding exo-planets, especially ones only a few times larger than our planet, is still something new. We've only been able to confirm extrsolar planets for 17 years, and it has only been in the last 5 years that we've been detecting anything even remotely as small as Earth. I agreed that as time goes on these will be less note worth, as we are getting better at detection, at least until we find something in the .8 to 2.0 Earth masses range which would be quite the news.
Er... ever tried asking the bus driver to tell you when you get to the stop that's nearest to such-and-such? It works surprisingly well...
Until you are in a foreign country, don't speak the language well, and are meet with a driver who has no patience for the American wasting his time.
I recently went with my wife to Germany. Our first steps around Berlin Tegel airport was to find where the Hauptbahnhof was located (translates to central train station, or something close to that). Unfortunately we didn't recall the word for hauptbahnhof at the time. We went to the advice counter in Tegel airport and asked them where we should go, they stumbled through their English and told us that we should go outside, get on a bus, and it would take us there. That sounded so much easier than it was, I suppose if we would have thought to ask what stop to get off of it would have been simpler. If only because the first bus we found, we had no luck asking him if he went to the train station. He yelled at my wife after she asked him if he spoke English, saying "German! German!" and then made some motions back out to the bus platform. So I did my best to apologize and we got off his bus and went to find another one. While we were looking around for some kind of sign that would point us in the right direction, the original bus driver kindly motioned for me to come back, so we did, he said something in German, than asked for 2.40 Euro's. So we took our seat, with our ton of luggage, and off we went into Berlin, without a clue where we were headed or where we should get off. After 10-15 minutes of driving and making several stops, my wife and I were getting worried. At this point our previously empty bus was now brimming full of Germans and my wife and I were starting to get a little more excited about where the hell we were. A woman behind us over heard our conversation and saved the day, explained that we missed one of the Hauptbahnhof stops already, but that we were almost to the main Hauptbahnhof which is the one we needed anyhow. Once we got to there it was pretty obvious we wouldn't have missed it, as it is a huge glass building with an equally large sign. All that said, Germany was an awesome adventure, and by large everyone we meet was very nice. It seems so long as you make an attempt to speak the language, you'll often find many nice people who know as much English if not more than I knew their language.
At the end of my adventure, I made a note to always remember to bring 1) a watch to tell the time, 2) a cell phone that works in the country you are visiting, more so if you are meeting up with friends, 3) a GPS that has a map, if only to confirm I'm where I'm supposed to be, or at least headed in the right direction.
The way you use the word commodity, it sounds like a bad thing. Can you clarify your statement further, as I'm not sure I follow why its being a commodity is an issue. I personally don't care who makes a game so long it is enjoyable. However I will not give repeat business to a company that has burnt me in the past. But otherwise, if it is a clone or not, so long as it is fun, I don't care who wrote it, be it the original author or some derivative work.
No, it is the puzzle version of Post-It art.
but but but, will it run Windows?
No doubt it will run Windows quite well, from inside a VM.
Ah, thank you for the explanation. That makes more sense.
I don't think that makes things much easier...people have quite subjective perceptions when it comes to the size of Moon.
Why would it be subjective? The width would appear to be the same to everyone who looks up at the moon, being 1/8 to 1/10 of the diameter. There is some guessing I suppose to figure out how small that would be, but it is more spatial recognition, nothing subjective... unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, as what you said was kind of subjective ;-)
Kindly ask for more, hoping that she'd beat me ;-)
Man oh man, agreed 100%. Sitting in a chair most days really destroys your lower back. My readings on the space program taught me that the lower back is one of the first to atrophy, and possibly the hardest to rebuild. Every few weeks my lower back gives me problems...
LOL, my mom will be so proud. ;-)
Thanks for the clarification!
Agreed. If anything the people who broke the internet were all the webmasters expecting to pay for their sites, and possibly get some cash flow, via an ever increasing number of ads litering their sites. Then once other webmasters saw that hey, I can make a few pennies here and there, why shouldn't I get on this almost free cash boat. If webmasters (and their clients / company) weren't so cheap/greedy, then we'd never be in this situation. I miss the days of dial up if only because their was real content on the web for a good decade without the bloat of millions of ads.
Recently I started getting 15 mod points every time they get allotted, whereas I used to only get 5. I've also noticed a lot more of the comments seem to be getting moderation, so I'm assuming 15 is the new norm. Just curious and wanted to confirm this. Thanks
You’re breaking the internet, or a part of it.
Really, wow. I didn't know that my client had any effect on the internet, especially in a negative way. It might be a hack but it is a useful hack for when you just want a site to load but it keeps hanging on a few of the ad / image server. Sometimes the problem is bigger than a few object/elements. Use the right tool for the right job and all of that.
what internet are you using that ads haven't been a problem for you?
Why do you care how it is blocked? In many ways it is similar to how DoS attacks are blocked along major backbone routes. You just blackhole the IP, telling it to go to a local, non-answering IP. In this case you are just blackholing the domain, sending it to an IP that shouldn't be answering (unless you want it to like you did using localhost to answer more quickly for sites you care to mirror). Please elaborate with what is wrong with using the hosts file in a way that is effective? I do understand that using the hosts with a big list can cause DNS resolution slowdowns (as it parses the hosts list, in memory, for every DNS call, prior to making a call to your cache or DNS server), but if the list isn't that big it isn't noticeable. So please, what is this fundamental disagreement about?
Hey hun, I'm sorry the cramps are getting bad again, but since you are getting up to get some pamprin, sudo make me a sandwich.
Troll? The GP never said anything about giving doctors the right to kill people, he said people should have the right to kill themselves. No one should need to stick around until the bitter painful end if they do not want to. It should be a valid option, and at the very least it should be legal (as all victimless crimes should be).