A simple google search with 'patriot missile failure' gives all sorts of links to recent problems with this system. Still, it's not the system itself that is wrong. Software does not kill, software does what it's designed to do.
Now, if SCO were to win, THAT would be chaos indeed.
True. And $100 million is pocket change for Microsoft so it's a good bet for them. Give SCO some money to create uncertainty about Microsoft's competition and they reap the initial benefit of that uncertainty. And, if SCO happens to win.... well, let's just say it's an easy bet to make for Microsoft to make. Even though it's a long shot it doesn't really hurt MS and it has the potential to be a great windfall in their favor.
They have trouble attacking free software in the business world, so why not lash out at them from the courts? The only problem is that it seems to be backfiring. I read a post yesterday that pointed out that with more and more exposure of Fortune 500 companies using linux everyone else is starting to realize linux is not just a plaything. Linux is actually gaining momentum from the attacks.
... that I will continue to talk out of my ass about things which I have no real knowledge of, and I will certainly not RTFA. This, however, will not affect any moderation.
Besides, if Google did get sued, it wouldn't harm them that much, because of the IPO that they are releasing soon (hopefully).
Really? You don't think so? Why was it that Google delayed that IPO again? Something about bad timing wasn't it?
Tomorrow, when SCO sues Google, I'm going to link back to this post*. How much longer can they keep this up? The whole story is starting to fall apart so why not have one last huge grandstand move and sue Google. Even your GrandMa has heard of Google, and what's that? MSNBC says some company is sueing them? Noone will ignore the press release, air will be gasped, monocles will pop out of eyes and ladies will swoon. But SCO stock will rise, and rich people will get richer and Darl will have to think of another more astonishing way to get peoples attention or we'll start to ignore him like we should. And SCO still won't have actually done anything.
*And of course, if they don't, I'm going to ignore it and hope no one notices:)
I've seen win2k boxes with insanely long uptimes. An engineer at a company I used to work for had 3 win2k boxes that controlled the plant machinery and I know they had uptimes of at least 8 months, probably more. However, these machines had no physical connection to the outside world, thus no need to patch or anything. To access those boxes you needed to be in the control room.
Windows can be stable, Linux can be insecure, insightful posts can be offtopic.
All that said, I have to say that the original AC post was retarded.
why were the incompetently configured Windows boxes the only ones thrown out.
from the standpoint of this study, how easy is it to determine which *nix users are the incompetent ones? it can't really be determined, but those who allow script kiddie attacks against windows machines can easily be outed as poor admins.
I think it's a given that a relatively competent linux admin can keep their box secure easily.
pretty much the same across the board. I admin windows and linux boxes and have one bsd box. I haven't had a problem out of any of them.
But broken into less.
not so sure about that, according to *this* study, which I agree is not really a good indicator.
I don't mean to step in the middle of a my os is better than yours pissing contest, but I have an idea of what this study was trying to do.
Microsoft has a high marketshare. High marketshare means more idiots running it. Idiots are not likely to keep up with updates and are much more likely to run random executable from email. A high number of automated exploits for Mirosoft products depend on the enduser being an idiot (allowing idiots to damage the system is another arguement). A competent user would keep the system updated and not run random executables. So, throw out the data on idiots and only look at competent users running correctly configured systems and you'll find linux is attacked more. I'm not saying it's correct, but that seems to be the logic they are using.
One could argue that systems with more important data would be running on what's considered to be more secure systems, such as linux. And the data being more valuable attracts a larger number of good crackers trying to get at it. Therefore increasing the number of attacks on linux that are successful.
All studies are mostly useless unless you have a specific case and then it only helps you narrow down your options.
just like users opening random email attachments, anyone running.exe's (on a windows machine ok, don't tell me you don't have to because you run linux, so do I) from soulseek/kazaa/edonkey/whatever that doesn't scan the file with some type of virus scanner first needs a minimum of 10 whacks with a Clue-by-Four
and take it from there, even if it's his first day on the job.
Clerk reads screen, looks up to see two people walking in the door, a man and a woman. Clerk walks over to man and says "Good to see you again Mr. Jones!"
Girl says "Mr. Jones is my Dad and he gave me his card, this is just the guy I'm banging to piss him off. Now bring me your most expensive purse!"
It's still better for the clerk to know the customer personally, but yeah, this system is probably a good thing.
Re:Good publicity / Bad publicity
on
Hackers Hall of Fame
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· Score: 4, Insightful
while I'm sure most/. folk can make the distinction between bad guy/good guy/grey guy hackers I did find it disturbing that Woz is listed right after Vladimir Levin.
Many hackers, including Woz, have delved into the dark side, if just to gain more understanding of it. But because of poor laws and public perception many good computer professionals get lumped in with criminals. Look at it this way, could Dennis Ritchie break into your computer and steal your credit card information? The answer is yes, he's a smart guy and if he put his mind to it he could likely figure out a way to do it. Most people would freak out and say he is an 'evul hacker' but just because someone has knowledge of how something works doesn't mean they will use it for criminal purposes. Would Dennis Ritchie actually do that? Certainly not, but not because he lacks the knowledge.
To many people computer professionals are wizards. Casting archaic spells that create something from nothing on the screen in front of them. They don't understand it and they fear it. Just like in my last job as a network admin, the owner of the company found out I had access to all the accounting info. He wanted to limit my access to it and I had to explain to him the power I held over his network. I don't think it was comforting to him, but he did finally realize I had access to everything and why I had that access.
So yeah, putting Stallman, Thompson, Ritchie and other non-lawbreaking profressionals into a list with with criminals and publicity seekers like Mitnick and Levin doesn't help the public image of computer folk in general. But it's hardly a fine line of good or bad. I do wonder though, if it were the 'Engineers Hall of Fame' would Said Bahaji be on the list?
We must stop these evil file sharers before they destroy the world economy! We can simply shutdown all of these corrupt organizations that you mention, because they are obviously criminal.
We can create laws to prevent Gnutella, EDonkey and all the p2p software. Then we can ban IRC because obviously it's evil, just look at how many evil h4xx0r's are there.
What's this? Eff Tee Pee can be used to transfer files? Shut that down too. And email, you can send copyrighted material in email? And look at all that porn spam and virus' spread by spammers. Evil I tell you! We must legislate them away!
And you say people can use 'browsers' to request files from remote computers. Shut them down, obviously this is only used by corrupt youth trying to steal from poor Britney Spears. We must prevent computers from being able to transfer any type of files at all! Then we will have a nice clean internet that any God-fearing patriot can use freely and not fear that the evul hackers will steal his copyrighted music that he sells through the RIAA.
What's that you say? People can just meet in person and swap cd's or tapes? Crime! Crime! Anyone seen talking to another person in public is commiting a crime! For that matter, anyone talking to someone behind closed doors is so blatently breaking the law that we might as well shoot them on the spot.
Now, all of you sit quietly in your grey cubicle and don't look at one another.
YOU! You there, I can tell that you're *THINKING*! Stop it now or we'll give you a labotomy!
I see plenty of people who don't pay attention when they are driving. They are on the phone, talking to (and looking at) someone in the back seat, fiddling with the radio, looking for cds, eating, applying makeup and dozens of other things they should not be doing. Yeah, sometimes these people get fined when they run a stop sign and sometimes they go to jail when they get drunk and slam a car into a family of five.
However, sometimes people get fired from jobs for doing retarded things with computers. You just don't hear about it on the nightly news, or see it every day out on the street.
These virus are successful because a lot of unknowledgeable people do dumb things. But this happens in all aspects of society, it's not limited to computers. Now, as the subject says, Windows is succesful because it's so easy to use. Many small business owners choose it because they can do one thing very well and don't have the time or resources to learn *nix. But they can buy a windows box, click 'next' a few times and have everything up a running. Is it safe? no. Does it do what they need it to do? Apparently. Do virus writers go after windows because it's much easier to fool a windows user into running an executable? Yes. Just like in nature, the lions will go after the weak. Windows does have weak security, but it's because it's made to be used by people that aren't experts. I bet that if everyone installed linux all those dumb users would figure out how to use 'su' to make it run the great new attachment that says it's pictures of Anna K.
Can windows be secure? Hell yeah. It's what I get paid to do. My users don't get spam, don't get virii and don't have to worry about worms or exploits (they also can't use the command line, play solitaire or get to the internet, but that's beside the point). Is windows secure out of the box? No, but it's a lot easier to use, and that's what people who need to get things done want. If they need to be secure they will hire someone like me to do it for them. Microsoft doesn't care about security because Microsofts customer is not concerned about security (yet).
Now, to help deflect the karma blow I'm gonna take for posting with a subject like this I'd just like to say I'm posting this using Mozilla running on my RedHat 9 box (yes, from work, where I admin Win2k machines).
no kidding, you mean I can't infect a linux box with a windows virus?
I mean that this virus isn't email-client specific, any email client that allows a user to download an attachment and run it on a windows machine will be infected. You don't have to be using Outlook to become infected and transmit the virus to others. It will try to use Outlook and your mail server if it can, but if it can't it will setup it's on smtp on your machine.
I think you mean it_can_use Outlook. It's just an attachment, so any mail client can be used to infect yourself with this virus. I could telnet to my mail server, download the attachment to my hdd and run it and I'd be infected. I'd also be an idiot, but that doesn't mean I'm running Lookout.
Bottem line, don't run attachements unless you know what it is, and even then I'd scan it with an updated virus scannner.
And since you mentioned it and didn't get modded off-topic I'll add that I know plenty of linux admins who stay very, very busy and are constantly getting phone calls. Linux doesn't automatically solve all your problems, it just gives you a different set.
Cause if they know what I eat then they can.... uh.... they can..... um, help me out a little here. Those bastards, wanting to give me a discount just so they can improve their business model and stock more items that I like! How dare they try to improve anything.
btw, I have one of the discount cards, but it's not in my name. And normally if I forget my card, the cashier will just ask the next person inline if I can use theirs. Noone has refused yet.
Anyone who has every worked in the transportation industry can tell you there is more cost involved in shipping than just paying for the truck and driver. If you don't understand that then you are either ignorant or biased.
Add in the cost of administration, labor, maintenece and many other things that most people don't realize are actual cost of transporting any material. Then add the fact that you are moving fuel needed for a military force that is a prime target for resistance fighters, therefore requiring much more administration and support costs. Now your much closer to an actual cost figure. Maybe it's not $40/gallon, but it's much closer than your numbers.
I don't like Bush/Chaney/Rumsfield either and I think it's obvious that Haliburton is profiting from this war, but it appears to me that your just grasping at any straw that might make them look bad.
Sounds like Gillete's (on the strip behind the stadium). It's still in about the same condition and the frat boys love it, which means that the sororiety girls flock to it as well. I think the appeal is that it's been there for-freaking-ever.
I used to work at CPS (liquor store) next door to it. Which honestly wasn't a bad job, especially during football season. There were many fringe benefits.... plenty of slightly underage college girls looking to buy.... it's also still quite, um, smokey as you say;)
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The problem was actually one of training and clueless operators.
They still need more training.
A simple google search with 'patriot missile failure' gives all sorts of links to recent problems with this system. Still, it's not the system itself that is wrong. Software does not kill, software does what it's designed to do.
I was just waiting for the daily SCO story after reading this new BOFH.
Now, if SCO were to win, THAT would be chaos indeed.
.... well, let's just say it's an easy bet to make for Microsoft to make. Even though it's a long shot it doesn't really hurt MS and it has the potential to be a great windfall in their favor.
True. And $100 million is pocket change for Microsoft so it's a good bet for them. Give SCO some money to create uncertainty about Microsoft's competition and they reap the initial benefit of that uncertainty. And, if SCO happens to win
They have trouble attacking free software in the business world, so why not lash out at them from the courts? The only problem is that it seems to be backfiring. I read a post yesterday that pointed out that with more and more exposure of Fortune 500 companies using linux everyone else is starting to realize linux is not just a plaything. Linux is actually gaining momentum from the attacks.
and I will also continue to spell correctly, but use the wrong word.
... that I will continue to talk out of my ass about things which I have no real knowledge of, and I will certainly not RTFA. This, however, will not affect any moderation.
I don't think so, since the rovers are "among the most biologically clean spacecraft ever launched from Cape Canaveral."
I doubt it would be as easy to scrub all the nasties off a human. Even if they wear protective suits there would be a greater chance of contamination.
Besides, if Google did get sued, it wouldn't harm them that much, because of the IPO that they are releasing soon (hopefully).
:)
Really? You don't think so? Why was it that Google delayed that IPO again? Something about bad timing wasn't it?
Tomorrow, when SCO sues Google, I'm going to link back to this post*. How much longer can they keep this up? The whole story is starting to fall apart so why not have one last huge grandstand move and sue Google. Even your GrandMa has heard of Google, and what's that? MSNBC says some company is sueing them? Noone will ignore the press release, air will be gasped, monocles will pop out of eyes and ladies will swoon. But SCO stock will rise, and rich people will get richer and Darl will have to think of another more astonishing way to get peoples attention or we'll start to ignore him like we should. And SCO still won't have actually done anything.
*And of course, if they don't, I'm going to ignore it and hope no one notices
I've seen win2k boxes with insanely long uptimes. An engineer at a company I used to work for had 3 win2k boxes that controlled the plant machinery and I know they had uptimes of at least 8 months, probably more. However, these machines had no physical connection to the outside world, thus no need to patch or anything. To access those boxes you needed to be in the control room.
Windows can be stable, Linux can be insecure, insightful posts can be offtopic.
All that said, I have to say that the original AC post was retarded.
why were the incompetently configured Windows boxes the only ones thrown out.
;)
from the standpoint of this study, how easy is it to determine which *nix users are the incompetent ones? it can't really be determined, but those who allow script kiddie attacks against windows machines can easily be outed as poor admins.
I think it's a given that a relatively competent linux admin can keep their box secure easily.
pretty much the same across the board. I admin windows and linux boxes and have one bsd box. I haven't had a problem out of any of them.
But broken into less.
not so sure about that, according to *this* study, which I agree is not really a good indicator.
To the point the results give you what you want.
isn't that the point of studies?
I don't mean to step in the middle of a my os is better than yours pissing contest, but I have an idea of what this study was trying to do.
Microsoft has a high marketshare. High marketshare means more idiots running it. Idiots are not likely to keep up with updates and are much more likely to run random executable from email. A high number of automated exploits for Mirosoft products depend on the enduser being an idiot (allowing idiots to damage the system is another arguement). A competent user would keep the system updated and not run random executables. So, throw out the data on idiots and only look at competent users running correctly configured systems and you'll find linux is attacked more. I'm not saying it's correct, but that seems to be the logic they are using.
One could argue that systems with more important data would be running on what's considered to be more secure systems, such as linux. And the data being more valuable attracts a larger number of good crackers trying to get at it. Therefore increasing the number of attacks on linux that are successful.
All studies are mostly useless unless you have a specific case and then it only helps you narrow down your options.
who thinks this bill was sponsored by car dealerships in the surrounding states?
Vinod Khosla met Scott McNealy and Bill Joy at the University of Califomia, Berkeley.
just like users opening random email attachments, anyone running .exe's (on a windows machine ok, don't tell me you don't have to because you run linux, so do I) from soulseek/kazaa/edonkey/whatever that doesn't scan the file with some type of virus scanner first needs a minimum of 10 whacks with a Clue-by-Four
Gap already knows I like scantily clad saleswomen .... it's why they won't allow me in the store anymore. :(
and take it from there, even if it's his first day on the job.
Clerk reads screen, looks up to see two people walking in the door, a man and a woman. Clerk walks over to man and says "Good to see you again Mr. Jones!"
Girl says "Mr. Jones is my Dad and he gave me his card, this is just the guy I'm banging to piss him off. Now bring me your most expensive purse!"
It's still better for the clerk to know the customer personally, but yeah, this system is probably a good thing.
while I'm sure most /. folk can make the distinction between bad guy/good guy/grey guy hackers I did find it disturbing that Woz is listed right after Vladimir Levin.
Many hackers, including Woz, have delved into the dark side, if just to gain more understanding of it. But because of poor laws and public perception many good computer professionals get lumped in with criminals. Look at it this way, could Dennis Ritchie break into your computer and steal your credit card information? The answer is yes, he's a smart guy and if he put his mind to it he could likely figure out a way to do it. Most people would freak out and say he is an 'evul hacker' but just because someone has knowledge of how something works doesn't mean they will use it for criminal purposes. Would Dennis Ritchie actually do that? Certainly not, but not because he lacks the knowledge.
To many people computer professionals are wizards. Casting archaic spells that create something from nothing on the screen in front of them. They don't understand it and they fear it. Just like in my last job as a network admin, the owner of the company found out I had access to all the accounting info. He wanted to limit my access to it and I had to explain to him the power I held over his network. I don't think it was comforting to him, but he did finally realize I had access to everything and why I had that access.
So yeah, putting Stallman, Thompson, Ritchie and other non-lawbreaking profressionals into a list with with criminals and publicity seekers like Mitnick and Levin doesn't help the public image of computer folk in general. But it's hardly a fine line of good or bad. I do wonder though, if it were the 'Engineers Hall of Fame' would Said Bahaji be on the list?
We must stop these evil file sharers before they destroy the world economy! We can simply shutdown all of these corrupt organizations that you mention, because they are obviously criminal.
We can create laws to prevent Gnutella, EDonkey and all the p2p software. Then we can ban IRC because obviously it's evil, just look at how many evil h4xx0r's are there.
What's this? Eff Tee Pee can be used to transfer files? Shut that down too. And email, you can send copyrighted material in email? And look at all that porn spam and virus' spread by spammers. Evil I tell you! We must legislate them away!
And you say people can use 'browsers' to request files from remote computers. Shut them down, obviously this is only used by corrupt youth trying to steal from poor Britney Spears. We must prevent computers from being able to transfer any type of files at all! Then we will have a nice clean internet that any God-fearing patriot can use freely and not fear that the evul hackers will steal his copyrighted music that he sells through the RIAA.
What's that you say? People can just meet in person and swap cd's or tapes? Crime! Crime! Anyone seen talking to another person in public is commiting a crime! For that matter, anyone talking to someone behind closed doors is so blatently breaking the law that we might as well shoot them on the spot.
Now, all of you sit quietly in your grey cubicle and don't look at one another.
YOU! You there, I can tell that you're *THINKING*! Stop it now or we'll give you a labotomy!
I see plenty of people who don't pay attention when they are driving. They are on the phone, talking to (and looking at) someone in the back seat, fiddling with the radio, looking for cds, eating, applying makeup and dozens of other things they should not be doing. Yeah, sometimes these people get fined when they run a stop sign and sometimes they go to jail when they get drunk and slam a car into a family of five.
However, sometimes people get fired from jobs for doing retarded things with computers. You just don't hear about it on the nightly news, or see it every day out on the street.
These virus are successful because a lot of unknowledgeable people do dumb things. But this happens in all aspects of society, it's not limited to computers. Now, as the subject says, Windows is succesful because it's so easy to use. Many small business owners choose it because they can do one thing very well and don't have the time or resources to learn *nix. But they can buy a windows box, click 'next' a few times and have everything up a running. Is it safe? no. Does it do what they need it to do? Apparently. Do virus writers go after windows because it's much easier to fool a windows user into running an executable? Yes. Just like in nature, the lions will go after the weak. Windows does have weak security, but it's because it's made to be used by people that aren't experts. I bet that if everyone installed linux all those dumb users would figure out how to use 'su' to make it run the great new attachment that says it's pictures of Anna K.
Can windows be secure? Hell yeah. It's what I get paid to do. My users don't get spam, don't get virii and don't have to worry about worms or exploits (they also can't use the command line, play solitaire or get to the internet, but that's beside the point). Is windows secure out of the box? No, but it's a lot easier to use, and that's what people who need to get things done want. If they need to be secure they will hire someone like me to do it for them. Microsoft doesn't care about security because Microsofts customer is not concerned about security (yet).
Now, to help deflect the karma blow I'm gonna take for posting with a subject like this I'd just like to say I'm posting this using Mozilla running on my RedHat 9 box (yes, from work, where I admin Win2k machines).
I'm hacking ..... now go away, what I'm doing in here is private.
no kidding, you mean I can't infect a linux box with a windows virus?
I mean that this virus isn't email-client specific, any email client that allows a user to download an attachment and run it on a windows machine will be infected. You don't have to be using Outlook to become infected and transmit the virus to others. It will try to use Outlook and your mail server if it can, but if it can't it will setup it's on smtp on your machine.
That was my point.
I think you mean it_can_use Outlook. It's just an attachment, so any mail client can be used to infect yourself with this virus. I could telnet to my mail server, download the attachment to my hdd and run it and I'd be infected. I'd also be an idiot, but that doesn't mean I'm running Lookout.
Bottem line, don't run attachements unless you know what it is, and even then I'd scan it with an updated virus scannner.
And since you mentioned it and didn't get modded off-topic I'll add that I know plenty of linux admins who stay very, very busy and are constantly getting phone calls. Linux doesn't automatically solve all your problems, it just gives you a different set.
Cause if they know what I eat then they can .... uh .... they can ..... um, help me out a little here. Those bastards, wanting to give me a discount just so they can improve their business model and stock more items that I like! How dare they try to improve anything.
btw, I have one of the discount cards, but it's not in my name. And normally if I forget my card, the cashier will just ask the next person inline if I can use theirs. Noone has refused yet.
Perhaps they just had the brilliant insight that there's hydrogen in them thar fossil fuels?
I think it was more like 'Thar's boatloads of cash in this here military research!'
Anyone who has every worked in the transportation industry can tell you there is more cost involved in shipping than just paying for the truck and driver. If you don't understand that then you are either ignorant or biased.
Add in the cost of administration, labor, maintenece and many other things that most people don't realize are actual cost of transporting any material. Then add the fact that you are moving fuel needed for a military force that is a prime target for resistance fighters, therefore requiring much more administration and support costs. Now your much closer to an actual cost figure. Maybe it's not $40/gallon, but it's much closer than your numbers.
I don't like Bush/Chaney/Rumsfield either and I think it's obvious that Haliburton is profiting from this war, but it appears to me that your just grasping at any straw that might make them look bad.
Sounds like Gillete's (on the strip behind the stadium). It's still in about the same condition and the frat boys love it, which means that the sororiety girls flock to it as well. I think the appeal is that it's been there for-freaking-ever.
.... plenty of slightly underage college girls looking to buy .... it's also still quite, um, smokey as you say ;)
I used to work at CPS (liquor store) next door to it. Which honestly wasn't a bad job, especially during football season. There were many fringe benefits