Slashdot Mirror
RFID Tags For The Rich
Greedo writes "While reading this piece about designing 'experiences' in the Globe and Mail, I came across this interesting tidbit: If you're a frequent Prada shopper (and who on /. isn't?), the loyalty card in your wallet or purse contains a RFID tag that announces your arrival in the store. When you encounter a saleswoman, her handheld computer brings up your tastes, buying history, vital statistics and personalized suggestions from in-stock and coming inventory; the handhelds also place orders and book change rooms. Every item for sale bears an RFID tag. The RFID tags are courtesy of IDEO, and their website has a nice write-up of all the RFID-powered stuff at Prada, including the changeroom! I'm guessing this isn't coming to Wal*Mart's changerooms when they implement RFID. (Another write-up can be found here.)"
The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'
That's what I said
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand
Or so I have read
My baby fits me like a flesh tuxedo
I'd like to sink her with my pink torpedo
Big bottom, big bottom
Talk about bum cakes, my girl's got 'em
Big bottom drive me out of my mind
How could I leave this behind?
I met her on Monday, twas my lucky bun day
You know what I mean
I love her each weekday, each velvety cheek day
You know what I mean
My love gun's loaded and she's in my sights
Big game is waiting there inside her tights, yeah
Big bottom, big bottom
Talk about mud flaps, my girl's got 'em
Big bottom drive me out of my mind
How could I leave this behind?
--------
Elmond, 45, delivers boxes to old women in Seattle.
So what would it take to create a small device to send out random RDIF signals (a 'white noise' generator)?
Yet another attempt to add the personal touch to the cold world of business.
I'm not trying to flamebait, just make an observation. The days of going to your friendly local are over, and now the store assistants don't even need to think or recognise, they simply wrap digital information in comforting words and give you a nice smile.
...of the scene in Minority Report where he walks into The Gap and based on his retina scan is offered another set of pants similar to the ones he's bought there before...
It creeped me out then and it creeps me out now.
Winona Ryder's Lawyer: Your honor, my client wasn't stealing, she just thought stores worked that way.
I have it on good authority (from an ex apple store employee) that Apple's stores in the US also use these tags, and frequently.
Of course I don't expect to see a negative view of that here, being Apple and all.
My login name for Amazon.com does the same thing when I walk through the door of their e-Store. GOD HELP US ALL THEY ARE AFTER US!!!11!
1. Tag the rich
2. Track their locations
3. Take incriminating paparazzi pictures
4. ????
5. Profit!
John.
What's involved in reading an RFID? Is there a standard on what is on an RFID, with vendor ID's set aside as in Ethernet MAC addresses, or is it just a generic number format like with barcodes?
It would be interesting to get a nice, sensitive, portable RFID antenna hooked up to a laptop and go, uhm, war-walking...
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
If I only had the money, I would complaint about privacy violation at my local friendly Prada boutique.
Ok. So what if the customer totally changed his/her shopping habits? DaddyMoreBucks' 15 year old daughter might suddenly decide she wants to look (gothic/punk/gansta/whatever) instead of (gothic/punk/gansta/whatever). Doesn't seem like she'd be too keen on being haggled to buy something she's trying to change from.
And at Barney's, they just knock you over, slip a collar around your neck, pick you up and let you continue shopping. No "Excuse me, it's store policy" or anything.
When I buy pants from Target I get to simply tap on a small device outside the changing rooms which, upon generating a small noise, identifies me to the salespeople as needing access. They then use one of their access control devices to allow me to gain access to the room.
Don't even get me started on the 'pants restraining device' that wraps around my waist.
changing room: I'm sorry m'am, but we have you at a size 10, but you have 5 items that are a size 5, you are either trying to steal these items are you are about to ruin these items by trying them on.
customer: open the changing room doors please
changing room: I'm sorry, I can't do that
let's see, a new pc or a new shirt ?
Some people seem to think anything RFID has to be bad. This proves that doesn't have to be the case. These folks are open about the use of the RFIDs and they use it to provide real value to the customer. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Compare/contrast to Wal-Mart which isn't open about the use of RFIDs and doesn't give the customer anything of value when they're installed. Since the customer knows nothing about the RFIDs, they don't have real choice in whether they want "to participate" in potentially privacy invading information gathering. Prada, by being open about the tags, alows the customer to simply shop somewhere else if they don't like them.
TW
Just listen to this other real human being who have successfully shopped for an article of clothing at Prada:
"I enjoyed my experience at Prada, and especially the changing rooms. When I had completed my trying on of an article of clothing, I was free to leave, uncooked and totally alive. It is a good store."
So take it from me, Zalgon-23-Prada: our changing rooms are the best! In fact, you should go in them even if you have no intention of trying on any articles of human clothing. I should know, as I am a human being just like yourself.
"I see you're trying to put your trousers on two legs at a time."
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
and welcome to WalMart. My name is Cletis and I will be your personal saleman. Your most recent purchases include one Remington Bolt Action 700 CDL, two First Response Pregnancy Tests, and a case of motor oil. [Click, click, click] Can I interest you in a 1 Gallon Jar of Pickles?
sig
>>The dressing rooms also contain a video-based "Magic Mirror" which allows a customer to see an image of their back. The video-feed is also forwarded to Prada's central data bank, where it is stored for future sale to various tabloids.
They don't care how they look in that Prada or D&G or whatever it is they're wearing as long as it's the latest designs. In fact, I doubt most of them would want to see a picture of their behinds because they'll suddenly start feeling fat or something. What they want is for the salesgirl to say "Oh, yes, you look fabulous in that! And so slim! And that color really brings out your eyes! Yes, it's really you!"
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
I would love to see such a device. Would it be illegal under the DMCA?
there's no place like ~
...part of me says, who cares?
Yes yes, I see the privacy concerns. But on the other hand, people in stores currently aren't exactly trying to remember who you are and what you like. If they have a palm whatever to give them a better understanding of your tastes, they can be far more helpful in less time.
Getting past the personal buying history, however, those dressing rooms are certainly okay in my book. I like the idea of tags in the clothing displaying information on a screen, and come on... that "magic mirror" would make trying on clothing so much more enjoyable an experience. (At least, for those of us who actually care enough to put some effort in the way we dress.)
"if Fortune 500 CEOs sought it out to feed their children, the world would follow"
The frequent Prada shopper does not just shop in one city. They will expect the same level of 'courteous' service in New York, Paris, Los Angeles, and perhaps Milan; these RFID tags will give it to them.
It's not all that bad of an idea. I suspect that these shoppers will not be plagued with advertisements or other spam; they are rich, after all, and not the average dime-a-dozen consumer. The advertisers will be desperate not to offend them.
==============
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Ought to get some cute replies from anyone behind the counter then... "Oh hey mister Baggins... Just wondering though, you might be interested in a nuclear warhead, Thunderbird 1 and screwing my sist- ..."
Hate me!
1. learn prada's RFID tags
2. scan random people for them
3. mug the people who have them
Nice simple way to know who's got $$ and who hasn't. Random credit card numbers might be nice if you only want a few hundred from each of them, but oh what a platinum visa might be worth.
...wrapping all my credit cards in aluminum foil.
"When you encounter a saleswoman, her handheld computer brings up your tastes, buying history, vital statistics and personalized suggestions from in-stock and coming inventory..."
How can Prada afford all this technology and still only charge $1000.00 for a handbag?
shopper: I'll take this in a size four!
salesgirl: she's at least a ten Of course, madame. discreetly removes size label. Here you go. Size four!
Same principle with shoes.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
I think the very wealthy send personal shoppers to stores and accept/reject the new clothing in their own homes.
And that's for ready-to-wear. For tailored stuff (and who isn't rich and wearing custom tailored suits?), the tailor or his sizing rep comes to your house and measures you, shows fabric samples, and then comes back with finished clothes for final fitting.
Actually going to a store and having to disrobe in a changing room, interact with other people and have strangers around you isn't what people with real money do. There may be some stores that are far from home or impractical for personal shoppers, so in that case, you pack up your entourage, rent a few suites at the Plaza and have stuff brought to your room.
now burglars can just point an antenna at a house and instantly calculate the value of its owners goods and wether its worth robbing or killing the occupants for the contents
Of course, the point is moot as all my Prada cards remain secreted in a wooden box at home.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I'm tempted to go to Prada just to see the "mirror." For it to be a convincing substitute, you'd want a full length screen of some sort. Hard to believe thay've managed that so what exactly are you looking at when you look at the "mirror?"
Speaking of mirrors, an old girlfriend loved the mirror in my apartment because for some reason it flattered her coloring - she just looked better in the mirror than she actually did. I can see the "magic mirror" playing games of that sort as well - hiding blemishes, slimming the wearer etc.
Does ne1 else see this RFID stuff as a personal security risk?
I mean they are even planning on putting them in banknotes.
Drive by scanning anyone?
I've often thought that when you go into a fast food place (for example), the cash register should customize itself to your preferred menu items. You should be able to say, "I'd like my #6, please" and not have to say, "Big Breakfast, no hash browns, add a side of bacon, medium Diet Coke", and then later have to explain what they did wrong.
It would clearly save money for the retailer, as the ordering process would be quicker and more accurate. It would improve the customer "experience" too.
Instead of having the merchant suggest these items based on your past buying habits (intrusive), you could go to their website to set up your custom choices (say up to 6) and change them as often as you want. The clerks don't need to deal with the fact that everyone's choices are different, as the keys themselves change meaning when your RFID walks up to the register.
The connection there is real. Now people aim to replace that with a wire in a piece of plastic, just as they're replacing living wage jobs with permatemp spots or part time people working close to full time schedules. If you think the negative part of this story is RFID, which is just brand new fuel for the paranoid that'll in actual practice do more to save money than invade privacy, think again; it's about subjugating another fulfilling business practice to a cookie-cutter scheme that anybody who can fog a mirror can perform.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I thought it was:
1. Tax the rich
2. ???
3. Profit
I can see/hear it now. You walk in the store and this kind of thing happens:
"Hello, Mr. Jackson. How do you like that pair of cotton boys underwear you bought last week?"
or
"Hello, Mr. Clinton. Are you back for another blue dress?"
or
"Hi, Mr. Timberlake. Looking for another one of those fabulous snap-apart bustiers?"
I don't think this idea will last very long..
Geoffeg
and who on /. isn't?
Yeah. 'who' is pretty sad right now.
From the article, the changing rooms are made of clear glass that goes opaque when you and your RFID tag enter. "Once inside, the customer can switch the doors back to transparent at the touch of a switch, exposing themselves to onlookers waiting outside the room."
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
You shall see a cow on the roof of a cotton house.
One hopes it would bring up the fact that I stuffed the last three "helpful" sales people into the nearest wastebin for bothering me. Hey, I'd pay a couple pennies extra for that.
the handhelds also place orders and book change rooms.
They book change rooms? What are people doing in there? Having high tea? Holding a seance? Reading SCO legal documants?
I'm guessing this isn't coming to Wal*Mart's changerooms when they implement RFID.
I thought WalMart's changeroom were still under FEMA disaster quarantine? Eh, maybe that was something else...
--- Ban humanity.
It's called a recession. And it's led to a loss of 2.6 million jobs (which makes W the first Pres since Herbert Hoover to have a net loss of jobs during his term). And despite the uncertain signs of economic upturn and the ridiculous projections of job growth from the White House, jobs continue to be lost.
And the W solution: permanent tax cuts for those making more than $200,000. And since the Congressional Budget Office says that 36% of the record deficit comes from the Bush tax cuts, 31% from spending on defense and security and the rest from economic slowdown, there are reasons why people might be ...irked, shall we say.
The mirror adds 10 lbs.
Like, I'm totally sure you could, like, guess a TAG ID that would fit into their totally trendy numbering SCHEME and CRC check! You've been, like, hanging out way too long at the Mall! DUH!
Anyway, PRADA is so NOT COOL ANYMORE, it's like the Paris Hilton of fashion. OMIGOD!
The changing room is a prime location for theft. I'll bet you that the FIRST place a rfid reader is placed if the fitting/changeing rooms to nail the scumbags that go in with 5 items and leave with 4.
have it alert the attendant that the person just entered the fitting room with 3 shirts and a portable DVD player or other non clothing item, or handed back less items than they entered with.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
i'm sure they have you sign waivers and disclaimers that you don't care about that...
Small, isolated? Try 1 block from downtown financial center. Not a high-end clothes shop, either. No sir- a deli.
I started stopping there for a egg/bacon/cheese bagel, and on the second day- the woman looked at me and said "egg bacon cheese bagel, and an OJ, right?" Third day, i got a warm greeting and I knew she still remembered. This isn't a small place- it's directly across from South Station, and opposite One Financial Center. A lot of construction-guy types from the Big Dig and area renovation go there, as do limo drivers and local/state cops. The place is almost always bustling, and I've seen other customers get the same recognition.
All of this just goes to show that if you want to be successful, it's all about establishing a relationship with the customer, and that's the job of the sales person. It can't be automated, because if the customer sniffs that- they suddenly realize they're just a sheep of hundreds and they're not impressed in the slightest beyond the gee-gaw gadgetry of it all.
Who do you think will establish more long-term relationships at a high-end clothier- the salesperson with this palm thingy who does the in-person version of "let me pull up your records", or the salesperson who turns around, recognizes an important customer, and says, "Ah, Mr. Jones! Good to see you again. How did the alterations work on your dinner jacket?"
Please help metamoderate.
Ok, I'm too old and/or an uber-geek and/or married, but I have no idea what "Prada" is.
I'm even clueless relative to a bunch of people who read slashdot. Good thing that my wife dresses me. Otherwise I people would probably laugh at me in public.
Scary.
Ummm, who's "Prada"? What cards? I keep my (US) driver's license and ATM card on me, nothing else. If somebody wants more than that, they can show it up front, and show why. Please somebody tell me that *cash* isn't good enough..
C|N>K
I'm not rich or anything, but I don't mind paying extra for items of good quality. Prada just overcharges based on the name - plain and simple.
$770 for a Track Suit that's no better than Nike, et al., abso-F*ck1n-lutely ridiculous.
The lack of pushy salespeople who know everything about me is all the more reason to stick with Wal-Mart.
(Though actually, I make a point of going to locally-owned businesses who charge a little more so they can pay their employees more, rather than go to the W'art.)
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
'cause you'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes, scum!
just kidding
Why can't we just tag rich people the old fashioned way, by knocking them out with tranquilizer darts and stapling plastic bracelets around their ankles while they're asleep? It works pretty well with grizzlies...
What if significant numbers of people could be induced to (unwittingly) ingest RFID chips? We could scan pedestrian traffic choke-points for consumers of anything that is swallowed whole - club drugs, over the counter pharmaceuticals, happy hour tacos... The mind reels.
Get some good real-time video processing stuff... and hack into the mirror system, so that, for example, a person would see her own likeness slowly take on a disturbing sneer, with red glowing eyes. Watch them bolt for the door in a panic!
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Ye know not the power of small-town gossip.
It's not what you know they're doing with it -- it's what you don't know about that they're doing with it.
For instance, I heard that Giant [the grocery store chain] made more last year selling data about their customers than in profits from items sold in their store. In some ways, this is good to the customers, as it allows them to find an alternate revenue stream, and keep their prices down.
But it's not spun like that. Hell, in this case, it's not even mentioned, so in my opinion, it's worse than them placing ads on shopping carts. And I've personally been creeped out when they scanned my card before ringing up any merchandice, and of the four coupons their system spat out -- three of them were items I had on the conveyor belt, that had yet to be rung up.
Of course, I didn't like their spin on the cards, either. Probably because they were behind the curve, when I had who knows how many cards for every other business. [book store frequent buyers card, air lines, a couple other grocery stores]. At least with Safeway, the card was an alternative to needing to clip coupons from the book they'd send you each month. And with Kroger, they gave you a little keychain thing, and they guaranteed postage if it was dropped in a mailbox, so they could return your keys to you.
But I'm still not convinced that your health insurance won't go up if you start buying medical supplies and scan your card in. [or cigarettes]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Mwaha.
For those of you that aren't Canadian, or have never heard of Radio Free Vestibule (I think they're just called 'Vestibule' now), this comes from one of their sketches. Zalgon-26 McGee's fine clothing!
1. Steal RFID database, buy scanner.
2. Park van in front of exclusive boutique.
3. Wait for mark with lots of money, then snatch them.
4. ??????? (demand ransom, or make Paris Hilton video)
5. Profit!
I liked the part about how the "customer can switch the doors back to transparent at the touch of a switch, exposing themselves to onlookers waiting outside the room."
Oh look! It's Melt Disney Vorld!
I find it funny that you complain about the $770 track suit, but dont mention the $170 Sleeveless T-Shirt!
moo.
RFID tags are cool and all, and I think they're destined to have a lot of great apps, but this is NOT one of them.
Never mind the privacy concerns, lots of people will take up that charge. Stores will end up doing custom pricing with this. Wouldn't be hard to say, "Hey, this guy bought a big screen TV last time... when he checks this price, it'll be full retail". Of course, they might offer a discount at times, but I seriously doubt it.
Another thing, the last thing I want to do is to have to chase down a salesperson to find an item just because they're glad-handing a previous customer. Worse, I don't want salespeople slithering up and acting like a best friend just because they happen to have your info.
Being rich and being tracked is something of a resonant cycle. Frequent flyer miles, credit card bonuses, all manner of marketing perks and tie-ins, cobranded water, corporate discounts. Of course, the truly rich have personal shopper proxies, and themselves are not truly tracked - they can afford their privacy. But the "pretty rich", like the 90-98%ile Americans, are on the marketers' radar every minute, induced to report with a steady flow of "freebies" to gain their brand affinity and detect their tastemaking activities. The result is often a global disneyworld, where the only "choices" are designed by the marketers, and the "real world" never peeks through.
--
make install -not war
If you're a frequent Prada shopper (and who on /. isn't?), the loyalty card in your wallet or purse contains a RFID tag that announces your arrival in the store...
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I've SEEN IT, OKAY?
So you'r saying that you are, in fact, a white person? They are the true minority, when looking at global data.
If you're a Gates or a Getty and you walk into the Prada store, you'll expect damn good service with or without an RFID tag. Stores with massive margins don't need technology; they need fawning, supplicant employees who can flatter customers into coughing up $6000 for a handbag.
Bitch and moan all you like, but that's better than having a salesperson who's clueless about what you want try to help you. And if you don't like it, don't get the loyalty card. Easy.
and i don't want to go to toronto, either.
So, what they are basically admitting is that they are unwilling to hire staff capable of knowing a) what's going on in their own stores, and b) remembering the faces and histories of their top customers. That sounds pretty cheap to me. A preferred customer in a high end store is going to be much impressed by being served by the same person each time they shop, who already knows their tastes and needs, and can provide what used to be known as that 'personal touch. What you get with this is new face staring a screen each time you enter a store which screams 'clueless' and 'newly hired' rather than exceptional service.
. So the only effect on the customer at all is the possibility of Wal-Mart dropping prices even more as their inventory process becomes more streamlined. ... which will lure even more consumers away from mom and pop stores like Prada!
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
I, for one, would not sneer at your money. I might, however, sneer at your behaviour, which might well include what you do with your money.
Conversely I have had plenty of people with money sneer at my poverty, even though it was my goal and I have worked hard to achieve and maintain it. Since I do with skills and labor what other people do with money (growing food rather than buying it, for instance), this, in effect, is sneering at what I do with my money as well.
Although I find that people with money these days have a great deal of trouble grasping the concept that working an hour to save a hundred bucks is the same as working an hour to "earn" a hundred bucks. And yet I am often accounted a "bum" for productive labor because that labor wasn't spent in servitude to another.
So, why do you monied sorts sneer at my hand made clothes without designer tags?
My clothes are actually hand tailored, extremely rare, designer originals.
And they fit better than yours if you bought yours off the shelf.
So, I won't sneer at your money if you don't sneer at my lack of it. Deal?
KFG
It's not your money, it's the attitude that comes with it.
You having no issues throughout the recent cyclical downtown definitely is a result of your hard work but also due to a bit of good luck as well. What if you worked at Enron?
Rich people take all of the credit for being rich. Poor people take none of the blame for being poor.
if it's your wife using your card - then she'd know your preferences too...
And let me get this straight: 4 years of being in charge and you're still trying to blame it on Clinton? Seems W isn't the only delusional one.
When "the people" don't like RFID, they decide to use class envy to get them to change their minds.
Instead of being something that can be used to track us and invade our privacy, they'll frame RFID as a perk that only the rich deserve. This'll make people DEMAND it in everything.
Not for me, thanks anyway.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
This is not an elitist thing. If wealthier people are the only ones receiving this personalized treatment right now, it's only because high-end stores are the early adopters. Retailers do whatever they can afford to increase sales, and they know that treating Joe Sixpack like a big spender can induce him act like one. Personalization is already happening. When I use my Safeway card, the clerks always look at the receipt and thank my by name. As RFID costs come down, expect lower-end businesses to think of creative ways to make you feel elite.
"Good afternoon Mr. Yakmura."
you have never shopped at Prada. I wouldn't call some of the Prada girls cold!
if I could.
The reason why the rich sneer at you is because if everyone grew their own food and made their own clothes then there would be no capitalism and they wouldn't be so rich.
Considering Bananna Republic*(maybe only for petites, I'll have to check) and Land's End*(I think) have free return shipping back, its a no brainer.
I don't go to malls; the clothes come to me. Thanks Internet!
Whats scary is that J.Crew not only sent my wife a thank you letter for being a valued customer, but Bananna Republic online sent her a Christmas gift. Me thinks its time to hide those credit cards...
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
1. Put RFID tags in salvation army clothers.
2. Give clothes to homeless
3. War-drive to round up homeless people for protection during cold winter snap
4. ????
5. Heil RFID!
Store clerks remembered who you were and got to know you on a personal basis, and could do everything this RFID stuff enables total strangers to do for you now. But times have changed and people don't stay in the same job for 40 years and people don't shop at the same place or even live in the same city their whole lives. When that changed, people bemoaned how alienating modernity was.
Maybe this will start to change now that we have high tech eyes watching our every move.
But... it's just off-putting that someone you don't know well has all this information about you. I don't care really if my tailor of some decades of acquaintance knows some personal details about me, like my left leg is shorter than my right leg. I worry, though, when that information get collected into a big system and combined with all sorts of other information from who knows where.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
they finally invented cookies for the physical world
I wonder if it would be possible to set up a home inventory using RFID tags. Put one on everything you own, then use trianglation to map out the position of everything in your home. Loose your keys? No problem. Just fire up the handheld, connect to the server, run an RF ping and run a search on "keys". I don't fear the misuse of RFID (well, too much) but I don't think many of the people using them really have an idea of how much fun they could be!
If I could get a firm grip on reality, I'd choke it...
Magic Mirror wall,
Your circuitry hacked by spring,
Best new voyeur site.
-~-
Magic Mirror on the wall,
Who's got the biggest boobs of all?
Magic Mirror responds: "Why, PradaPorn dot com, hottest voyeur site since fall!"
There seems to be many people wondering if they can make an antenna that transmit rfid signals. Look up rfid blockers on google. They have been developed.
... who, or what, is Prada?
SpamNet - a spam blocker that really works
I almost always do.
... let me think about it ... NO WAY - and pay cash.
I refuse these airmail cards - So, if you can collect my personal info and track shopping habits, I get a 1% refund
If the 1% refund or the convenience not to run around with 200$ is worth more to you than your privacy, that's YOUR choice.
So stop bitching about the store tracking you, when it's YOU who made the choice.
Now, if the shop would refuse to sell you something without scanning a card, THAT would be creepy.
For very expensive items (1000$+) I still pay with cards as I dont want to take the risk of being robbed while carring tousands of dollars, but if your paranoid, you can pay in cash. (Heck, my mother bougth a new car in cash, but this was because they didnt accepted cards nor checks for large sums, go figure)
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof for my post which this sig is too small to contain.
and take it from there, even if it's his first day on the job.
Clerk reads screen, looks up to see two people walking in the door, a man and a woman. Clerk walks over to man and says "Good to see you again Mr. Jones!"
Girl says "Mr. Jones is my Dad and he gave me his card, this is just the guy I'm banging to piss him off. Now bring me your most expensive purse!"
It's still better for the clerk to know the customer personally, but yeah, this system is probably a good thing.
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
Gap already knows I like scantily clad saleswomen .... it's why they won't allow me in the store anymore. :(
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
With all the tech jobs heading out of the country, I'm sure a high-tech criminal class is sure to rise here in the good old U. S. of A.
One could loiter outside the store to get a bead on the RFID tags and start gathering raw data. A days work collecting and another disecting would be all that was needed.
A handheld computer on the streets of New York and the ability to detect a Prada card is all it will take someone to make 10K to 20K in a weekend.
Next thing you know, they'll start using it in cash. Could you imagine, someone could know exactly how much cash you were carrying at any given time.
That does it, I'm never shopping at Prada again!!
oh, wait...
Their fragile egos will convince them that the staff are fawning with faux familiarty because they're just so wonderful and not because a computer says they're loaded and stupid.
michael wrote:
>
> the loyalty card in your wallet or purse contains a RFID tag that announces your arrival in
> the store. When you encounter a saleswoman, her handheld computer brings up your tastes,
> buying history, vital statistics
"Stickpeople must not only be persuaded to accept Schwa's total control, they should be conditioned to ask for it by name." --Bill Barker
I've worked with several RFID implementations, and all of the (silicon-based) solutions have decent encryption to prevent "capture" of IDs or other data. Usually a shared-key system -- not unbreakable, of course, but pretty difficult to intercept on the sly.
If encrypted RFID systems don't include any nonce in the request, repeated in the response, then a replay attack is possible. You don't have to break the encryption at that point, just record and retransmit.
Humans tend to repeat their mistakes, so it wouldn't surpise me if such a vulnerability showed up.
Although I love good shoes (I'm a recent leather sole convert) I find Prada to be too contemporary for my tastes, but their web site is a joke. I scanned about with my mouse for the magic pixel to let me in, but I don't see it. Maybe it just isn't friendly to safari on the Mac.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
I've often thought that when you go into a fast food place (for example), the cash register should customize itself to your preferred menu items.
Great, so the register automatically knows what I want, big deal. The same moron human beings are still working there, so all RFID will do is let them fuck up my order more efficiently than before, and during the assembly phase instead of the submission phase. And they already fuck up my order just fine now, without RFID.
My card is actually in the name of "Arthur Dent", who has a nonexistent address and phone number. I was at an SF con some years back and a group of us agreed to do this.
I'd dearly love to know what Arthur Dent's consumer profile looks like right now. Just trying to stock up on stuff before the Vogon Constructor Fleet arrives, I suppose.
First of all you don't entirely need them. I already know for a fact that you read stories on slashdot about RFID tags! I can also surmise that a few of the posters are buying more tinfoil than they would normally need.
RFIDS? What do you think cookies are? The concept of RFIDs has efectively been on the net for years. And for you tinfoil hat ppl: They have been monitoring us liek rats for years... people have been taken, things have been done to them, now there walking gap advertisements...
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Nobody can pronounce my name on the first try without being born to it. The poor clerks at Safeway have enough to do without trying to learn how! Maybe Prada had better put a phonetic spelling in their records.
This could be really fun at a snob shop like Prada. I now nobody here has signed their loyalty cards as "Frodo Bigbutt," "Billy Bob Gates," or anything like that. let's see the Pradadroid say that out loud! Or would they have the nerve to call BS?
It would be nice to be rich and have absolutely no shame.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
From the article: ...enabling the customer to select alternative sizes, colors, fabrics, and styles, or see the garment worn on the PRADA catwalk as slow-motion video clips.
Just what most women want, to see themselves in the mirror and then a picture of a supermodel wearing the same thing. Talk about a self-esteem builder.
"We need a fourth law of Robotics: Stop Fingering My Wife"
Why bother with a flesh-and-blood sales clerk at all? Hook the reader into a database and a monitor. You can even put a nice smiling emoticon on the monitor for that friendly touch.
I'm guessing this isn't coming to Wal*Mart's changerooms when they implement RFID.
Wal*Mart has changing rooms!? Wow that could have saved me indecent exposure charge from the San Ramon County Police! Now you tell me! : P
-Jason
> If encrypted RFID systems don't include any nonce in the request, repeated in the response, then a replay attack is possible.
It's been a couple years, but I'm certain it had a challenge-response authentication system to prevent simulation. I am not a security expert, I just remember reading the specs while studying the api.
I also remember a story told by the owner of the company about a sales pitch he gave once. A nearby amusement park used an insecure rfid technology to sell access to video games, rides, etc. He walked in with his own reader, copied the "paid in full" transaction code and gave himself a free ride. A high-tech "vacuum-cleaner sales pitch", but effective.
S
Prada has always set the standard in service, and this is exactly how RFID technology should be used, they are veritable poster child for acceptable use of technology.
For Wal*Mart, however, RFID is used for more sinister purposes. Instead of greeting the customer as they enter and act as personal shoppers, they are using this technology to surreptiously follow people and spy on their habits.
The ONLY difference between the two approaches is the overtness. The high end retailer will use this in an overt manner, whereas the use of, and the abuse of RFID, lies in the covert manner applied by intrusive big brothers.
I for one welcome our new, very well dressed (nice shoes) Milanese overlords.
Go Jeff Markey!
I have had this functionality build into my shower for years...my shower is made of clear glass...but when I start having a shower, it goes opaque, or what I like to call "steamy"...once inside, I can switch the shower back to transparent by using what I like to call a "towel"
:)
I think I may have a case against Prada
p.s. sorry for the mental imagery guys
I assume that, like a CD, microwaving an RFID tag should permanently disable it. Has anyone tried that?
Due to price tags that automatically go up in proportion to the amount of your available credit....
I'm quite peculiar with how I like my favourite drink prepared
oh.
my.
fucking.
god.
Please tell me you are not THAT asshole!!
In response to many of the posts above, this anonymous coward who has worked extensively with supply chain rfid solutions would like to submit the following:
4 /1/2/ for more info and a link to a major newspaper story
_ WalMart was testing RFID retail solutions on individual products BEFORE they pulled back from the gillette tag project. See http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/65
_ Data collected by RFID in the retail environment is pretty inocuous compared to what is already collected. Wheter you use a 'club card' or not, if you've ever payed for a purchase with a credit card there is a name & address associated to your detailed purchases.
_ RFID tags can't be read by potential theives or evil conmen. The technology as-is is pretty crappy right now, and the range required to read tags small enough to fit on an individual product is within a couple inches. Portals/readers have to be specifically tuned to certin tag formats as well. Suffice to say, unless the 'evil doers' have the ability to hold the actual item -- and the right hardware to read the specific tag, they dont have a shot in hell at reading it. If that doesn't address your concerns, then how about this: newer tags implement self-destructing features, that allow a 'die now' command to be sent when scanning to render them useless -- just to be safe.
_ RFID tags function poorly around metals and machinery from interference. They're pretty bad around water and paper/wood too.
_ Everyone touts the Prada store's accomplishments for the past two years. Its old news -- and no one ever mentions that the stuff never works. Go by the store, ask for a demonstration. Watch the employees cross their fingers or laugh. Go on... The Prada store is only functional as a PR piece.
All of the outcry and reservations about RFID is just plain stupid -- the technology only makes current supply chain tasks easier. The only negative effect on consumer privacy they exert, is detracting attention from the invasive climate THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
There are a number of studies currently being conducted to take REAL measurements of women in the US, UK and Australia, trying to establish more realistic models for clothes size/proportion standards.
Having a system that actually tracked fitting information and reported it back anonymously could potentially see better standard fittings for everyone.
cheers
Sara
a Macgrrl in an NT World
I post anonymously because this was presented at the SOCOM SBIR conference in St. Petersburg yesterday. The president of Sierra Monolithics, Charles Harper, talked about a JSTAR based transponder (which he did not state was passive; but he didn't say it was active either) that they have designed and is in use in the Iraqi theater currently.
He stated specifically that the U.S. Boeing 707-based Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (JSTARS) working with a RFID transponder system created by Sierra Monolithics has been demonstrated to be readable at a distance of 10 Kilometers (is 10 Megameters ever commonly used?). So technically, this is RFID, similar I believe to the transponders in jet planes that transmit altitude and plane identifier codes in response to radar pings.
In the near future for those with RFID "loyalty" cards - (purely hypothetical of course):
You walk in, the RFID is scanned, a quick credit check is done along with purchase profiles based on credit purchases, and hmm, they direct you to the leather goods, or perhaps ignore you?
one the same site ...
Each dressing room is a simple eight-foot-square booth with Privalite glass walls that switch from transparent to translucent when a room is occupied. Once inside, the customer can switch the doors back to transparent at the touch of a switch, exposing themselves to onlookers waiting outside the room.
What if I accidently switch the door back to transparent accidently I am too afraid to go to such dressing room..
RFID chips need a writable component that stores a cookie that includes information about the last reader (referrer?) of the chip. Then you could know who knows -- but the price you'd pay is that the next person would know you know. Of course, no one would know who knows, because who knows what what the cookie knows means?
Let these Prada customers have their tags. When the revolution comes, having one of the readers will be most useful - no inadvertent slaughtering of staff in the confusion, nossir. Using high concentrations of the RFID tags as target designators would lead to a little collateral damage, of course. But you tend to get that when you're doing time on target against even the most carefully chosen sites.
Let's take for granted companies will attempt to use RDIF or any other technology to get to know even more then they already do about our spending habits (marketing guys want to know a lot about us)
... why can't I know THEIRS with the same ease ?
Now, if they can track in almost-real time or realtime MY spending habits, history, locations and choices
Imagine going to *anycompany* and asking "Hey I bought this stuff from you and I know that you know I did ; I'd like to track your company habits as well". Police will be summoned and you'll be likely charged with
1)invasion of private property (they'll lie)
2)industrial espionage
3)being a tinfoil-hat fool
Or if they're a little gentle they'll just say "go stuff yourself, that's not stuff you're supposed to know"
Well companies, data about me is not stuff you're supposed to know, so get lost as well.
... does Ad Aware stop these people from tracking you, or what?
for the rich?
I think not...
for the tasteless is more like it.
that kind of products is for people who want to look like they have a lot of money.
they would be glad to transmit this disinformation to anyone who would recieve it.
i wasn't shoplifting
my loyality card just isn't working.
I didn't know Prada did these. I know in all their items you get a kind of credit-card sized piece of plastic in a little envelope, but thought this was more to prevent counterfeiting.
I was impressed the other day at Walmart when I wanted to buy something that was out-of-stock, and a salesman scanned the barcode and then right there on his wireless scanner, reported to me which other stores claimed to have that item in stock. So you don't necessarily need RFID for that feature, at least.
(But then, he said that often the system was wrong, and he spent 15 minutes or so to call all those other stores on the phone for me to check stock, and they were almost all out-of-stock anyway. So something's not connecting properly in their system, but it's a good idea, at least.)