Slashdot Mirror
Kazaa Offices Raided
rj writes "ZDNet Australia is reporting the Music Industry Piracy Investigations (MIPI) this morning raided the offices of Kazaa owners, Sharman Networks, along with P2P company Brilliant Digital Entertainment, and the homes of key executives. Background on prosecution of copyright music in Australia over P2P is also available."
Can they do that?
I understand raiding the offices but the homes to? This smells a lot like the US patriot act
Linux is like living in a teepee. No Windows, no Gates, Apache in house.
pity the servers are actually in another country where they have diddly squat juristiction :-)
Two wrongs don't make a right.
I have been pwned because my
Did they think they had a slew of mp3s sitting around on cds in their homes? I know that raiding the offices and homes of execs is fairly common in accounting scandals and the like, but this seems a bit overkill.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
everybody sing along :)
How is Kazaa to blame for the transfer of pirated media across its networks? Should we shutdown the alleys because people sell drugs there? Ridiculous. I hope the MIPI gets screwed in the courts for this one.
was'nt centrally located but instead internationally distributed.
At last, someone has finally gotten in trouble for bundling spyware in their products!
-All your offices are belong to us*
*with Aussie strong accent, plz.
Regards,
jdif
Let's overcome our weakness.
It's a good thing that Kazaa is only used for trading public-domain indie music and Linux ISOs. Geez, I don't see what everyone's so worried about.
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
Ok, this sounds a lot more like a police state than anything the Patriot Act allows (at least in the letter of the law and not its interpretation). Raiding homes in addition to business sites? For what, IP infringement?
.au slashdotters get off saying that the US is a police state. What bollix and hypocricy.
What kind of freedoms do these goons get, anyway, when they raid? Do they take everything, bash down doors, and the like, as the article implies (and as would likely occur under the Patriot Act)?
If this kind of thing is valid, I don't see where so many
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
MIPI just got confused. They didn't realize that a file sharing network didn't include physical files.
Besides, with a name like MIPI, could you really stay mad at them for that long?
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
.. so the raid makes virtually no sense at all. Even if Kazaa was declared illegal through the entire world - an impossiblity, I know - it would still be mirrored by every tom, dick and harry.
Third of Nine
Well, um, yes.
I am guessing that throughout the world, the different recording associations got into a contest to see who could become the most Nazi in their tactics. Until now, RIAA had the lead. To counter this, the RIAA will probably round up all of the file traders into camps. This will allow them to win.
Yes, stopping Kazaa will end music piracy in Australia. Because nobody has ever heard of
None of which look like they're going away.
WARNING: If accidentally read, induce vomiting.
Use Your Forgotten Brain. Just because it's not in the US, doesn't mean it can't smell like the stench surrounding the abuses of liberty that the US Patriot Act articulates. Abuse of law enforcement for private gain is not limited to President VP Cheney and his "Justice" department henchmen. I bet your "conservative" values think that librarians are commies, because they encourage sharing.
--
make install -not war
hahahaha
barzelay.net
Trillionaires with Mafia support? (I mean Mafia backing, not people who threaten to make you sleep with the fishes unless you reboot your PC before ringing)
The words "deckchairs", "rearranging" and "Titanic" spring to mind. Kazaa may be today's Napster, but unless I'm very much mistaken, P2P is just as popular as in the Napster days. The **AA can shut it down and it won't make the slightest bit of difference. I'm sure the big sharers were making plans to move to a different P2P network anyway, what with the lawsuits flying round.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
-John
The ZDNet article points out that if all the "pirated" tracks in Australia were purchased for $A0.99, then the record companies would be $2b better off.
As of now, my understanding is that Apple sells tracks for $US0.99, and is in pretty close to a breakeven state for iTunes (this may have changed recently, as surely the sheer volume going through iTunes would cause them to move into profit at some point). Regardless, it seems that $US0.99 is pretty close to the breakeven point, and you'd assume the breakeven cost in Australia would be no lower than that given the population is so small - let's cut the record companies some slack and assume $US0.90 is the breakeven point for online music sales in Australia.
$A0.99 translates to $US0.76. Now, since it costs $US0.90 to provide a downloadable music track, Kazaa is actually *saving* the record companies $US0.14 per downloaded track. By my calculation, the 850,000 tracks downloaded via Kazaa haved saved Australian record companies $US119,000 in providing that service.
What's that? Bogus use of statistics, you say?...
...to end the sentence with the oblitagory "mate"
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
I thought only the cops could performs raids! Thank god this is in australia....if Fritz Hollings has his way we will probably have special music industy SWAT teams roaming the country soon.
Sherman Networks would be bloody stupid to have anything illegal (music/software/etc) on any of their computers and I really doubt they had anything.
This just seems like the MIPI along with the rest of the record industry is trying to harass Sherman Networks into going away. Personally I don't like/use KaZaa or any other P2P utility, but I think it's a necessary evil.
Oh well, if they should manage to close down KaZaa, there's plenty of underground alternatives for the (ab)users. Seems like wasted resources from a desperate industry.
(shot of men in riot gear overturning desks, rifling through offices and smashing computers)
Voice in aussie accent: Search engine!
(shot of Fosters can)
Voice in aussie accent: Beer!
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
The argument that this even remotely has anything to do with the patriot act is stupid. It certainly has no provisions for raiding people's homes on behalf of the record industry. The people you should be directing your anger towards is more than likely the RIAA, who's undoubtedly the puppet master for this MIPI thing.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
It's time for revolution, time for people take control of their lives and their communities. Fuck the government and their corporate rulers.
And I just got WAY into Australian pop music! Now I'll never get my fix.
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
It's leftish retards like you that have these paranoid ideas.
We are simply protecting ourselves and providing security to our neighbors. In times of war like now, it's best to pause certain freedoms just to keep everyone safe.
I hope you know this the next time one of your family memeber gets blown away by a muslim.
at least they get to die in the man sex0r salts.
1) Message Sending. They want to scare file traders into thinking that nobody is beyond the long reach of music executi^H^H^H^H the law. Thus stopping supposed music swapping.
.02
2) They want to see if KAZAA/Sharman are keeping track of who the heavy users are. Thus KAZAA would know about illegal file trading, and be partly liable for copyright infringement.
3) KAZAA/Sharman networks profit by looking the other way. However, if they are actively working to enhance "reliable sources" for file trading, that would look pretty bad.
4) Any inter-office memos/emails relating to the above.
It will be interesting to see exactly how private user's data really is. You would think that Sharman would (or should have) anticipated such a move by the recording industry.
just my
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Please Don't squeeze the Sharman!
Of all the subtle and not-so-subtle evils of the Patriot act, it is, at least to my knowledge, employed soley by the government/gov agencies.
This situation in Australia seems not too dissimilar to SCO busting into Linus' house with presumeably armed gov. officials and confiscating everything.
It's corporate terrorism.
Haven't heard of this one. Is this basically the Australian branch of the RIAA, a little-known arm of the Illuminati, both, neither?
I thought I was up on all the oppressive quasi-government enforcement agencies!
Chris
I'm Australian with an Iranian background and have never, ever experienced any racism. I also have many International friends studying in various Universities of Australia - again, no racism.
I think the problem is people take offense to playful comments too easily.
has begun. But there's not much that we customers can do, is there. A boycott will be of no use unless its on a global scale. And then, we like our music; how can this music industry monopoly be broken; itunes is the right way out, but not substantial enough.
MyDoomv3 - for RIAA anybody?
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
-Benjamin Franklin
It sounds to me like the digital music scene is going to continue to move towards the legal download of music, with companies like Apple and dell leading the way. Imagine the lack of need for services like Morpheus and Kazaa if you could find any track in one place...
Because all the files will be distributed across hundreds of thousands of computers.
... I'm using a Mac.
Wait...
yarrrrrrrrrrrr we be pirates
Australia's neighbors consist of fish, plz.
You actually have a good point. I'm not saying that there is no racism in australia, when there is, BUT:
the line between PC and non-PC is different there. Many comments that would make an American/Brit/Canadian feel uncomfortable, are perfectly acceptable in Aus, and are not taken offensively.
This is comming from a non-white canadian BTW.
There is always an element of racism in even the most tolerant societies. Australia has one of the most multi-cultural societies in the world, something that many (most, I hope) Australians are proud of, but it means there is always an element of racism somewhere. Earlier this week three Chinese restaurants were fire-bombed in one night in my city. It was quite a shocking event, as we haven't seen that type of violent racism here for some time. The last time was I think a couple of mosques shortly after 11-9-01 and before that over 10 years ago.
Security has increased since Sep-11, mostly related to air travel and at public events, but little else has changed. I don't consider it a total nazi state, and it's no worse to live here than before.
The majority of Aussies fit your image of friendly and laid-back, of course there are always a few people that will spoil that image. In this case its MIPI. If not MIPI, it would have been the ARIA (Australian Recording Industry Assoc).
Um, something to keep on topic: THOSE MIPI BASTARDS!
Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
I think they mean, kazaa exec's parent's basements. :-)
Really.. is that what its oging to take before this shit stops? When people start dying in gunfights? Thats exactly what will happen if they come to get my machines.
The United States' founding fathers also had these sort of ideas. Benjamin Franklin in particular had an interesting take on your thoughts, such as they are:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Know well that there is no pause. Liberty, once lost, is won back with blood. Remember that the next time one of your family members gets thrown into jail for holding a dissenting opinion.
Could this be considered a case of "putting the squeeze on the Sharman"?
Mr. Whipple will not be happy about this!
(Sorry, I resisted as long as I could...)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose the following;
RIAA/MIPI/"Recording Industry" has been conducting police raids in the United States out on the streets, handing out false tickets on false pretenses, etc... This began occuring over a month ago. Since then, they have lost key decisions in the courts, both in US and Europe, and things are looking bad for them. Now, they are beginning to conduct actual raids on property under obscure laws outside of the United States - obviously an intimidation tatic for those of us in the United States.
Now... why is this good you ask?
Because the day will come when an RIAA representative will knock at my university door and demand to see recipets for all my jazz mp3's (legally and educationaly obtained) I have laying around my harddrives. When this happens, hello Supreme Court.
This series of events is giving us a very clear picture: The RIAA is a dying animal who is now lashing out in any means necessary. Non governmental agencies playing cops - be it here or austrilla - is a fundemental violation of human liberty - which is a value upheld by the UN and the World Court (which Austrilla is a member of). Not that this really matters since no one is going to do anything about it, at least right now.
Later on, we are going to see events like these help us in a completely different court though - the court of public opinion. Isn't it easy to see a Dateline episode being made of this event? Isn't it easy to connect the dots and see that the RIAA and their chums are just doing this so the average American thinks that their home could be raided by Will Smith and his men in black protecting his copyright? Isn't it easy to see that the Average American would go apeshit if the RIAA actually tried to enter their house, and they later found out it was completely against the law?
Let's return to the orignal question. Why is this good?
Because the RIAA and every incarnation of it is pushing the very lines of human rights and freedoms that have been affirmed around the globe since the end of World War II.
I have never seen America stand down in the face of a constitutional violation, never. Hell, even some of my republican friends acknowledge Roe v. Wade. Let the RIAA come and try to impose this scare tatic here in the USA. I fore one can't wait for this good thing to happen. Two days after they try to enter a house in the US (legally or illegaly) Scallia and Rehinquist will join forces and strike the RIAA back to the seventh circle of hell from which it spawned.
Be happy with the RIAA's actions - it's a sign the end is near.
- The Ever Defiant Simrook
(p/s - All spelling errors are mine and mine alone.)
'Truth' is linked in a circular relation with systems of power which produce and sustain it...
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
You must make a decision, my Fuhrer.
If they raid 60 people and find 2 abusers do they have to answer for the extent of their search????
If they know 2 abusers, raid 58 and find nothing, then invade the two abusers they know, are they held responsible????
LS
I think they're hoping to find pirated or illegal ANYTHING in the executive houses or anything of Sharman's networks.
I think their plan is to do a raid and even if it turns up ONE slightly dodgy file, they're going to use that to link it with Kazaa and music piracy... which may give them a leg to stand on in court.
The issue is this: these days its pretty damn hard to find a single PC out there without one slightly dodgy file on it.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
"MIPI. Australian for queer."
(I'm gay, I'm allowed to make this joke.)
[grumpy]
That's not true at all. Violent mobs always get good results, despite being wrong. Lynching the government works wonders towards getting public opinion respected, but that's considered wrong too.
Seriously -- when the government is ignoring the demands of the populace, violence is the only answer. Too bad gun nuts are all talk. They yammer about the second amendment protecting the first, but where are they when civil liberties are violated? Busy polishing their guns and buggering family members. Bah!
[/grumpy]
I've started a political party which is currently looking for 500 members to get ourselves on the Federal ballot this upcoming election:
www.neteffect.org.au
If you want to have a representative in parliament who actually understands how this type of behaviour is a bad thing, and do something about it, then I recommend you visit our site and read through what we have to offer.
It's time that we Aussies had a REAL "younger generation" to represent our views instead of a 42 year old "young-un"; someone who knows what a frag is, someone who cares about our online rights and someone who understands the pickle we're in regarding current copyright/patent laws.
Oh, and someone (me of course) who's a regular Slashdot poster....
At the very least have a look at our policies and forum - I think you'll find that we're very much aiming to be a real force for change in Australia.
Visceral Psyche Films
Mobster 1: "I thought you said Troy McClure was dead!"
Fat Tony: "No, what I said was he sleeps with the fishes."
First, go to this link: www.dfat.gov.au/missions/.
Once there, look up the nearest Australian consulate. Then, give them a call and tell them that you're furious that they would allow this kind of manipulation at the hands of the recording industry.
Be tactful, polite, but firm. Practice what you're going to say. Don't swear, and don't say anything rash or dangerous to your own freedom. (We need you out of jail, so you can join the GNU/United Front militias in the Great Copyright Civil War of 2016)
The RIAA/MPAA may have billions of dollars, and governments all over the world at their beck and call, but what we have is a whole lot stronger: We've got the Slashdot Effect.
They've got the guns, we've got the numbers.
I sense a pattern...
The United States, which started as property of the British Empire, has begun to revoke its citizen's rights.
Austrailia, which ALSO started off as a branch of the British Empire, has started raiding the home, read: Private Dwellings, of people that work at a place that happens to traffic copyrighted material. They weren't even searched by law enforcement officers.
Does this mean that India is going to make it mandatory to consume beef, or something? Are the citizens of Ireland going to lose their rights, next? What about you silly Brits, are you next?
Learn something new.
Since when can someone search another person's property? Who is to say they did not take data or information not related directly to finding violations of law? At least if it was the police searching, you could have a court determine what is related to the specific law, and what is not. Who is to say they will not use items found unrelated to the copywrite issue, but which can still cause embarrasment, and use that information against them? It would be the equivelant of person B searching the house of person A for "copywrite violation" but finding tax records, photos of your lover, your address book of friends, etc...
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Right, and do you hear that thumping of my hand on the desktop? You should thank god that I'm using my extra-secret powers to keep Al Queda from invading your office and cutting your throat. The sound you don't hear is my other hand picking your pocket. What would we do without patriots like you, Anonymous Dupe?
--
make install -not war
Unfortunately Jack VT was released within the last couple of years and the race hate incidents have started to rise. I hadnt seen the 'national action' stickers for years - now theyre popping up everywhere in the Chinatown end of Northbridge. It doesn't really surprise me that someone is restarting the bombing campaign - I had the misfortune of running into JVT - he still travells with 2 goons at his side
It just goes to prove that America is not alone.
Australia also has the best judicial system that money can buy.
.
"MIPI obtained an Anton Pilar order ? which allows a copyright holder to enter a premises to search for and seize material that breaches copyright without alerting the target through court proceedings ? yesterday from Justice Murray Wilcox, and began raiding premises in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria this morning searching for documents and electronic evidence to support its case against the peer-to-peer companies."
Holy run-on sentence, Batman! Jeez...
I'm a minister!
If you took off your tinfoil hat, you'd notice that government raids of people's homes, on the pretext that their company might have been abused by other people to ignore copyrights, is government by fear and threat of force: fascism. Why is the air so thick with Anonymous Cowards reeling at the charges of fascism?
--
make install -not war
I'm using Kazaa k++ in australia at the moment, connects and downloads are unaffected, nothing to see hear ... move along
-= Technomancer =-
I would be careful saying that this is a rasist attack. While not dismissing it as a possibility, quiet often the attacks are the response from asian gangs for the victim(s) disclosing information to the police, or not paying off the gang enough protection money, etc. I do not know which city you are in, but there was a security video tape here on Sydney News a while ago, it was of a gang smashing up a chinese restarunt, and the gang was asian. I am not saing that all attacks arn't racist (there is examples of this in Australia, unfortunately), but this is not a good example, as it more than likley will turn out not to be. Third of Nine
Well, um, yes.
The raid reached the mainstream News on TV in Australia, so it's being treated seriously.
What shit's me, is that most people WOULDN'T buy most of the music they download, especially after listening to some of the shit out there.
I know I don't listen to 90% of the stuff I actually paid for and ripped to my computer.
the raid on the Crytek offices for supposed unlicensenced software. Happened on the fourth. Just seems to be kind of odd two major things like this in 2 days. Here's hoping for the trifecta. Would love to see that Microsoft is using unpayed for copies of Visual Basic ;)
I know that when illegal cable box dealers get busted the FBI looks over their customer list and goes after each one. Could this happen here and is it even possible to log THAT many millions of peoples individual files?
In Anton Piller K.G. v. Manufacturing Processes Ltd., [1976] 1 All E.R. 779 at 782 Lord Denning stated:
"Let me say at once that no court in this land has any power to issue a search warrant to enter a man's house so as to see if there are papers or documents there which are of an incriminating nature, whether libels or infringements of copyright or anything else of the kind. No constable or bailiff can knock at the door and demand entry so as to inspect papers or documents. The householder can shut the door in his face and say, 'Get out.' That was established in the leading case of Entick v. Carrington (1765), 19 State Tr. 1029. None of us would wish to whittle down that principle in the slightest. But the order sought in this case is not a search warrant. It does not authorize the plaintiff's solicitors or anyone else to enter the defendants' premises against their will. Id does not authorize the breading down of any doors, nor the slipping in by a back door, nor getting in by an open door or window. It only authorizes entry and inspection by the permission of the defendants. The plaintiff's must get the defendants' permission. But it does do this: it brings pressure on the defendants to give permission. It does more. It actually orders them to give permission - with, I suppose, the result that if they do not give permission they are guilty of contempt of court."
As you can see, you can if you so chose deny access, but you had better have a pretty good reason.
I wish I could think of a witty Sig. Sigh!
Anybody that ever used Kazaa was a fucking pirating scumbag!!
Even if they find personal copyright violations (personal piracy), it would be next to impossible to associate this to the company's business directly (ie. that they are a pirate ring). They would be liable only for the copies found.
The only thing I guess they were hoping for (and had zero evidence of before the raid probably) would be that they were using kazaa to share these themselves and therefore could be a 'pirate ring' of sorts. If the warrant was on shaky grounds, even if things were found, it could be thrown out.
More than likely the company has both criminal and civil complaints it can register against this act and burn whoever did this. I really hope that they at least were smart enough to run clean at their offices (home raiding would be iffy from any stand point for a corporate 'act' and could be fought as harasment so hopefully that can save them there).
This is outrageous, but the US isn't the only place where bad laws are made. At least I hope they were using bad laws (and not just being authoritarian).
Just a thought - US/Australia trade negotions are due to finish rsn (days).
I wonder if little johny howard (our pm) has prompted his ministers to push
the judiciary into demonstrating a commitment to the enforcement of copyright
laws in Australia.
Go johny go
History teaches us that anyone who tries to get in the way of progress either gets a war against them or is bypassed. Or to put it in other terms "nature finds a way".
The USA was built on some principles of being a new, golden land. It's heading for decline into conservatism and corruption. I think that China and India will be the new superpowers.
2 billion loss per day for some compressed
...
acoustic waves! mama-mia!
"more titts, i say!"
mewonders why the RIA (terrorist groups only have
three letters) isn't sueing the power companies
for supplying electricity to the network operators.
shutting down some power plants should do the trick!
time to backup that stuff and bury them somewhere
in the lawn. or for that matter, make a nice
geo-cache somewhere
good thing the "MY computer" that is running
P2P client is safely hidden in some dark ally in
bangkok and is being VPN remote desktop-ed from
my real home, puh!
Yes, yes, a substantial portion of Kazaa and other file-sharing programs/networks are in use illegally.
However, there is also a substantial portion which is used for, among other things, advertisements, legal restores (example: a long time ago, I used a file sharing network to backup an mp3 which I legally owned... the original had been corrupted during a backup to a bad CD; I lost a lot of data, but most of it didn't turn out to be important, luckily), and semi-legal file transfers (where the host might be in, say, Japan where the file is illegal, but the downloader is in the US where there is no copyright and is therefore legal).
With all due respect, sir, I think you're focusing on the negative side of file sharing.
~UP
Eat the Path.
and some studies have shown that file-sharing may actually contribute to greater expenditure by participants on legitimate music.
I wonder where these studies came from? Saying file-sharing encourages the purchase of legitimate music is like saying hookers encourage fidelity in marriage.:P
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
Perths asian gang scene is a lot different. There has I think been a stabbing in Hyde Pk (not as big as your sides hyde pk) in the last couple of years - between Viet's IIRC.
I think alot of the gang activity is due to the high number of asian students - some of them carry their gang related activity and values with them when they come here to study.
Because now P2P may be rid a spyware!
What does the MIPI do? Well, to be more specific, what does the MIPI do that the ARIA can't? It's not like the ARIA doesn't have enough resources (money) to investigate (sue) everyone.
and we are already paying a percentage on storage media to artists even though some of us don't even download MP3s!!!
We already payed for that music already through our taxes and hidden fees.
Where does it end?
It's time we cut the free money flow to these thieves.
Michael Malone from iinet has posted on the whirlpool forums saying that iinet was one of the four ISPs raided and that no subscriber information was asked for. What were they after then? A rumour I read is that some RIAA infringement notices were returned with a kind 'go to hell' and the raids are in response to this.
/. a hard time about their draconian laws and the RIAA acting like thugs. I have to say that I'm sad to see this sort of thing going on in my own country.
I know we give the Americans here on
as above, so below
Australian law allows a warrant to be issued providing that a Justice of the Peace has been convinced that there is reasonable grounds for suspecting that there is evidence of a crime on the premises.
I don't know how this compares with the US justice system and whether this was only granted by the patriot act (I doubt it). This has been the case for many years.
This is an invetigation of kazaa and it is reasonable that police be able to investigate suspected crimes wherever the evidence may be, otherwise criminals could conceal evidence in their homes and be totally immune to investigation.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
is that, if you don't have a badge and a piece of paper, you're not getting into my house... period... and I have a .50 caliber Desert Eagle to back that up... and the right to use it...
If we're going to discuss liberty and music copyright we might as well throw in musical taste.
:P
Didn't bother to read the rest of your post as your mention of jazz just took me back to those fond hours in the waiting rooms. j/k
Some aim to please, I aim to tease.
Is it a coincidence that Mark Vaile Australian minister for trade is currently in the US finalising (or trying to) the free trade agreement? http://www.trademinister.gov.au/releases/2004/mvt0 07_04.html
And that the federal election campain is starting to begin? the FTA is very important to PM John Howard.
Australias soft copyright laws are something the US wants changed and brought in line with their own. hmmm.
Seems like Australia is playing deputy again......
"We have solid evidence that Kazaa has biological weapons hidden in its servers!"
It appears that the United States isn't the only country where the right to privacy is extinct.
They must get permission and you can deny them entry, but if you do, you're a criminal and have committed the crime of contempt of court. What kind of law is that!?
I thought they broke the mold with Ashcroft. But apparently his minions have inhabited this Earth for some time now. Scary.
From a movie I once saw... Screaming "They're all over the place. We'll never get rid of them."
Kazaa doesn't download music.
People download music.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
We believe that during the raid proprietary code was seized which might allow the music industry to set up their own file sharing system. We therefore ask for an immediate raid on all the music industry premises and confiscation of all suspicious hardware for analysis.... Hey it works both ways.
Since when can someone search another person's property? Who is to say they did not take data or information not related directly to finding violations of law? At least if it was the police searching, you could have a court determine what is related to the specific law, and what is not.
Next week: Sharman networks search the offices and homes of the MIPI, any nearby U.S. diplomat, and their lawyers. They find copies of Kazaa light, a program that exploits Sharman's IP and network infrastructure illegaly.
Week after that: Local slashdotters' homes and workplaces are searched by the BSA and MIPI, looking mp3 files, a format for illegal music sharing, and for clones of Klondike and Minesweeper, business software "borrowing" their look and feel from Microsoft products.
Repeat untill infinity.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
This morning I was standing waiting for my bus outside the building that houses the main Kazaa/Sharman/LEF-interactive office and a couple of guys with cameras and microphones went rushing in. :)
/james
I followed them a bit of the way into the building but couldn't see anything.
Internationally news-worthy stuff doesn't normally happen near my house
What happens if they have a source safe with a single "illicit" MP3? Does that mean they can confiscate the entire server? Can the same tactic be used to get it back? It is all so confusing.
Well,
This has happened before in the USA and other countries, too. For example Cult of Scientology used to be famous for its raids to the critics' homes (Zenon's case,other cases
The situation is also getting worse in Europe, because the upcoming IPR enforcement directive will greatly strenghen Anton Pillar orders in all member states (unless we will manage to mount enough public pressure to stop the process, which is unlikely but not totally impossible - contact your MEPS today!)
V.
1. Levy a tax through ISPs. What did they say? About $6 a month for broadband subscriptions.
2. Footprint downloads - don't DRM them. Artists get royalties from the big pool based on how many times their stuff gets downloaded.
3. Round up the RIAA and the MPAA and put them all in jail.
4. Put Kenny Boy in jail at the same time.
- Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies was: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Nothing about losing the discussions or that the discussion has to end when Nazis or Hitler are mentioned.
- Godwin's Law was just an experiment.
It makes people look really silly when they take Godwin's Law seriously.Clever signature text goes here.
NOBODY expects the US Patriot Act!!!....
...and now for something completely different...
Ask an Aborigine if there is no racism in Australia...
see subject
I finally have a post to respond to in which I can pontificate on the freedom of the press clause in the US Constitution.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
'Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom...of the press;...'
I argue that the freedom of the press includes the right of any citizen, or group of citizens to own a press. At the time that the US Constitution was written the only means (i.e. technology) for communicating with a truly mass audience was the printing press.
Historically, only the Crown had the *right* to own a press. The Crown might *permit* others to operate a press subject to prior restraint, but the Crown controlled the uses of all presses.
In order to have freedom of the press individuals, or groups of individuals must necessarily be able to own, and/or have access to the technology that physically, and infrastructurely allows he/she/them to communicate with a mass audience.
Thus, it must logically follow that the freedom of the press must include the right to own the means of communicating with a mass audience.
New technology that provides the ability to communicate with a mass audience has historically, over time, been encompassed by the notion of the freedom of the press with regard to ownership.
The music industry in trying to advance its copyright claims via the elimination of various channels through which copyrighted materials flow illegally. This runs afoul of the freedom of the press.' That is the notion that a technology which allows for the communication between a person, and a mass audience is covered by the freedom of the press. Ultimately, copyright claims must be superseded by the right of the individual to have at their disposal the means of communicating with a mass audience, i.e. 'freedom of the press.'
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
Don't know what this MIPI is exactly, but to me it sounds like a special pivate police/terrorists-unit of the MI.
Is it really that far already?
I mean, how dumb can someone be, to let them do this?
If they want a war of the big industries agains the internet and the good poeple, then they should be prepared for a firestorm wich takes down their whole ill and mad system.
If nowadays, the companys act like governments it will happen to them like it happened to rome and it happened to the 3rd reich.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
1. Pay people to spam the Kazaa network with spoofed music files
2. Wait a bit for the self-spread spoofs to multiply
3. Sue the Kazaa team for billions in lost revenue
4. Profit
Erm... I forgot the ??? didn't I?
"I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
I'll conisder this fair when we can obtain a court order to bust into the offices and homes of the major labels and the ARIA (Austrailian RIAA) offices to randomly collect information on anti trust violations.
Kaza implementes a technology for SHARING FILES..they get raided. The weapon industry creates weapons to KILL PEOPLE effectively. The abuse of weapons in supression and homocide is substantial. Nobody raids them, or even sues them. Conclusion? Money is valued higher than human lives.
Don't squeeze the Sharman
yeah i was wondering why i was bored, time to download 50000000000 GIG of mp3s and movies tonight.
people have lots of stuff in their house, in all those raids they're bound to find something thats illegal.
(wether it has anything to do with p2p I don't know)
a stick to beat cause they have nothing else, it's pure intimidation.
People downloaded mp3s/warez before kazaa, does that mean ftp servers should be illegal?
If every person had a ftp server which was indexed to google. then what?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
p2p networks have lots of other uses besides music and movie sharing. p2p networks good for sharing any very popular files. A good example where p2p networks might work very well for sharing debian packages. IMHO some of the reasons why sharing movies online is so popular are 1) movies are released 6 months after they are in the US. So if I want to see a recent movie I must get it "illegally"!! 2) movies are simply too expensive to see in the movie theaters. Last year I saw 2 movies. I simply can not afford the "price" of movies, sorry I am not rich!! 3) renting movies alwasy struck me as dumb idea. I find watching a movie twice to be a rather unpleasent experience. a) After I watching the movie once, it is worthless. b) The movies I rent always have scratches. So IMHO I should be able to buy a movie for around half the price of a movie ticket, because I don't have a big screen at home. And a movie that'a an old release should cost half as much again. I currently buy most of the movies I watch for a little under $2.00 US per CD. And at that price p2p sharing is not worth the bother.
You'd think that, right? :)
No, the reason I don't make it clickable is that we have 8GB bandwidth per month, and making it clickable makes it that much easier to click on it just for clicking's sake. By not making it clickable I'm in a sense making a tiny barrier to entry that means only interested parties will take the minute amount of time needed to copy and paste the URL into their browser.
If you wish to you can mirror the site and provide a clickable link, which would save our bandwidth as much as possible.
Visceral Psyche Films
Perhaps Kazaa should raid the record industry executives and represenatives for copies of Kazaa Lite? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
A more immediate question that doesn't seem to have been addressed is what authority does "MIPI" have to raid anyone's office? They sound like some sort of paramilitary organization running around taking the law into there own hands (even then, the question of a law actually having been broken is another question).
What's next, summary executions?
-s
If a private industry/monopoly ever started busting down doors here in the US, you can garuntee a lot more people would start arming their homes. Shot gun sales would sky rocket. Memberships to the NRA would balloon.
It consistently amazes me how far Australia is behind the rest of the world in both a legal and political sense.
What possible justification is there for having a legal structure for allowing non-law-enforcement people seize data?
I'm reminded of the project run by a journalist once. The local police chief had been gathering the garbage of a suspected criminal, and going through it without a warrant. The journalist wrote a critical article, and the police chief and local mayor responded, saying that they were entirely in the right (as this was garbage, unwanted material), and that they had no ethical problems with the use of garbage for examination. The journalist responded by going through the trash of the mayor and police chief for a week and writing an article containing all the dirt this allowed them to dig up on the two.
May we never see th
What sort of redundancy does their new office layout provide? Are there any significant speed gains with this enhancement?
[sorry been up for 24 hours rebuilding a damn E4500]
CNN also likes "media". Criticizing "the media" seems to be hip these days, so CNN goes right ahead and does it. It really doesn't get much more ironic...
Actually, it does. I remember at one point CNN running a tidbit on whether excessive media coverage of some political event was having negative impact...this was followed immediately by a teaser for more CNN ocverage of said event.
May we never see th
Oop, didn't aussie's already give up their guns?
That's great. NOW. Get Fosters to ACTUALLY MAKE THAT A COMMERCIAL. it'd be funny.
If not, how can they be running around radiing companies, THEN the homes of employees?
Shouldnt that be 2 seperate issues anyway? I realize this is not the USA, but dont they have any rights down under?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Even Australia is now under Neo-Nazi-Con domination.
Pretty soon the only truly free countries will be Cuba and North Korea.
If Sharman networks is encouraging piracy, then gun manufacturers are encouraging murder. But you don't see Smith & Wesson getting raided. Granted it's less trivial for me to obtain a gun and make the decision to shoot somebody, but I wouldn't have that power at all if nobody was making them. And that power will likely remain available to me for the rest of my days.
By the same logic it can be said that producers of alcohol, and car manufacturers combined encourage drunk driving, because these two products are used in conjunction quite a lot, yet both industries continue to thrive unmolested.
It comes down to personal choices made by the individuals who use these products. I dislike Sharman Networks for getting into bed with BDE and their 'secret' trojan module, and as much as I'd like to see them get a smackdown, I really hope they can just walk away from this.
It is a fucking tool!
Really?
And here I was using it for something entirely different.
Does it give head, too?
All correspondence, all email, all code, all your files, everything you have. Regardless if its intra-company or not.
Make it impractical for them to read anything they subpoena.
That said, any advice on encrypting your entire hard drive, and external media such as CD/DVD, under various OS's ? Regardless of quit or innocence, no one has a right to see what is on my pc, or CD's.. Its *mine*.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Freenet's problem is not bandwidth. Freenet clients are capable of getting fairly good bandwidth.
Freenet's problems center more around:
* The choice of default interface. Normally, the way you work with Freenet is through a web browser. I'm sure this seemed like a good idea at the time (cross platform, eliminates some code), but it actually brings out a huge number of flaws. It is extremely latency-sensitive, it requires browser reconfiguration for any kind of sane use (with 200 or so simultaneous connections), it is still very easy to eat up all available connections when visiting a page that has, say, a number of thumbnails on it.
* Latency sucks. Latency really sucks. This would not be a problem if Freenet worked mostly through background batch processes, but Freenet was chosen to be used through a web browser, which means interactive latency is required. It can take ten minutes (admittedly, this is on the high side) for a Freenet request to wend its way through the queue and finally let the next page load). This makes Freenet web interface extremely unpleasant to use.
* Resource usage. I had a machine that ran *all* my servers before. It was a PII/266 with half a gig of RAM. Freenet killed it, eating memory like a big and maxing out the CPU frequently -- while supporting a single user. The reference (and I believe, only current) implementation is in Java. A stronger argument against Java's resource usage could not be produced.
* Poor data persistence. The Freenet authors have made some improvements in the past year or so, but, frankly, if I publish a page, some of the images may be missing soon.
Freenet is an (extremely) neat research project, but despite constant claims from Freenet fans ("Oh, *this* time we have lots of improvements") that Freenet is really "ready for use" this time, it has consistently shown itself not to be generally usable.
May we never see th
place and where are the rest of you people? This is why you browse at 0 when you mod, so you can find the abuse. How in the hell is this comment Redundant when its the FIRST POST that does not talk about SLUGS? It asks a question. Now maybe gilrain should have RTFA, because maybe his question was answered there, but that's not a Redundant mod. That's a NO mod. Yes, it was a question everyone was asking, but he posted it first and you modded him down. Why? This is abuse or plain old stupidity. I hope for all that is good I get to metamoderate this moderation. Maybe someone responsible will see this and spare their precious moderation points and bring this back above zero. I would suggest underated, because that is what it is. HOW CAN YOU MOD DOWN THE FIRST VALID COMMENT!?! LOOK AT THE THREAD IT STARTED!!! THERE WERE FOUR COMMENTS MODDED FOUR AND ABOVE!!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH! beer...BEER NOW! (You've heard "one out of the cooler")
Racism in australia is usually directed against asians.
Kind of like you won't feel any racism in Germany... if you happen to be from, say, france, and white.
(I live in Germany, before any idiotic mod mods this down as flame bait; I know what I am talking about)
If any motherfuckers who aren't cops with a warrant come to my house and tell me they're going to search it they're going to have the door slammed shut in their faces.
If they knock again, as soon as I finish opening the door they're going to have their teeth smashed in by the barrel of the shotgun that I'll stick in their mouths before telling them to piss the fuck off of my property.
If they try and start shit after that, they'll only get in after I'm done discharging 50 shotgun cartridges and they subdue me after my beserker rampage with the butt of the shotgun to their splattered corpses on my front lawn.
Fuck pseudo-cops.
Not the US.
Looking around online, I found an article from TeenWire about the Dos and Don'ts of Downloading, which states that "It's also legal to download music that you've already paid for. Let's say you loaned your copy of System of a Down's Toxicity to your friend, but he totally scratched it up. In this case, it's legal for you to go on Kazaa and download the entire album to replace your ruined copy, since you already own the CD."
So if the RIAA raids you after they've noticed you've downloaded 1000 songs, it would be okay as long as you physically had the CDs, cassettes, vinyl, 8-tracks in your possession? In discussions with others, everyone seems to believe that THIS is considered "fair use" but it really is a gray area right now.
If TeenWire owner Planned Parenthood says so, it must be true, right? Has this aspect of P2P been legally declared to be true in the US?
The aussies live in a penal colony. Criminals have no sense for justice.
"Don't squeeze the Sharman!"
---- Politics: Kissing ass and pointing blames.
1) Get a T1 line or better
2) Share thousands and thousands of mp3's on all networks
3) Rig mp3server shack with a trap door in the floor
4) Wait for MIPI/RIAA Polizei
5) Pull trap door with Polizei inside, dropping them into the secret RIAA Polizei holding area.
6) Repeat until no more Polizei exist in the wild.
7) Profit?
It is legal in the USA, too.
The BSA does it all the time, as shown in this article:
http://www.airscanner.com/pubs/jail.pdf
Exactly how can the FIRST POST be redundant?
Is this moded +5 Funny, because we all have given in and realised that this is the future?
I mean, it's not funny! It's not even unlikely with the development we see worldwide these days (weak goverments, mighty corporations).
I'd give this post +5, Apocalyptical yet realistic, but for some odd reason that moderation doesn't exist... Oh. And now I can't moderate.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
To take your analogy to far, you should arrest the engineers who built the alley and the planners who planned it. The point is not to close the alley but to arrest the drug pusher. Why not treat the desease rather than covering up the symptoms. Closing the alley will just move the drugs elsewhere just as closing Kazaa will move the sharers elsewhere.
Watch me build my house
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/07/news-sullivan.ph p
0 40 112023398.htm
Though no guns were brandished, the bust from a distance looked like classic LAPD, DEA or FBI work, right down to the black "raid" vests the unit members wore. The fact that their yellow stenciled lettering read "RIAA" instead of something from an official law-enforcement agency was lost on 55-year-old parking-lot attendant Ceasar Borrayo.
The Recording Industry Association of America is taking it to the streets.
Even as it suffers setbacks in the courtroom, the RIAA has over the last 18 months built up a national staff of ex-cops to crack down on people making and selling illegal CDs in the hood.
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Jan/gee20
no
Excuse me, but how can there be laws allowing PHUQUING MUSIC LABELS to storm in to a premisis swat team style looking for copyright violations?
I am lost here?
Private concerns can now use police tactics?
And this on the heals of a judge saying "This is not piracy, it is something new, and has not been determined what it is"
I can see that if some one was making actual conterfit CD's and selling them for money, that would be piracy, but listening to a song that some one else purchased is NOT. It is like the judge said something new.
This is sickening
cheers all
* Carthago Delenda Est *
From the article: The investigation into the Kazaa network has been ongoing for six months, and was precipitated by a significant change in the physical and technical structure of Sharman Networks
What's that all about? Did Kazaa suddenly start storing MP3s, or logging user IP addresses?
"This action appears to be an extraordinary waste of time, money and resources going over legal ground that has been well and truly covered in the US and Dutch Courts over the past 18 months," said Sharman Networks in a statement. "This is a knee-jerk reaction by the recording industry to discredit Sharman Networks and the Kazaa software, following a number of recent court decisions around the world that have ruled against the entertainment industry's agenda to stamp out peer-to-peer technology."
NUF SAID. You may now go back to your normally scheduled downloads. . .
Interesting! Now local fascists are enforcing American Fascist Laws.... Well, this proves that the Fascist States of AmeriKa do not have to use their army of stupidly obeying idiots to get their way. There are enough American emulating idiots in other countries to do their work for them. Maybe when Microsoft is allowed to raid homes to look for commie, pinko, Linux crackers, you all will wake up! (in jail that is)...
All it took was for one cop to slip a CD into their server to have execute access on their millions of spyware nodes. Think about that.
This is the same level of arguement as claiming that people browsing magazines in newsagents is killing the magazine publishing industry because everyone who reads without having paid is robbing from the publisher - at the very simplistic level this is sort of true. Yet most newsagents have figured out that althought there are some lost sales due to people having read the article that they were interested in, this is more than balanced out by people that would not have bought the mag if they had not had a chance to see what was in it first (and most of the people that read it and didn't buy it, would not have bought it anyway).
Eventually, the music business will come round to the fact that they are increasing sales to people like me. I regularly download tracks from Kazaa, but if I discover something that I like, I will almost certainly go out and buy the actual album.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As a native New Yorker myself, I could(n't) care less which saying people used.
Those who do care...well there's a place for them...Jersey.
stupid evil companies..
If you allow sharing generic binary files, and then do acoustic fingerprinting of MP3s and match them against a database of "offending" ones, you effectively did nothing. Any kind of reversible encoding your software isn't designed to - including but not limited to simple XORing with a constant - will break the fingerprint matching. People *will* use it then, if they won't move to other networks without such hassle. You *CAN NOT* be effectively responsible for the content of the network you create; there are WAY too many workarounds around any possible built-in limitation. Last but not least, designing such limitations - if they have to be at least remotely effective - rivals in complexity the P2P problematics itself (no, simple MD5 won't work).
I know of a great place which has greats amount of information for free. this information is about various topics and covers all formats; books, magazines, tapes, cds, movies on dvd/vhs. I fail to see why i cannot copy music from the library to mp3. I can always go there to get it and then rent it for two weeks. why cant i have a copy. moreover, why cant i send this copy to my friend. he is a taxpayer. he also has library card. cant he get the same music? what is stopping my from borrowing a book, copying it by hand and mailing it to my friend? isnt it similar to him going to his local library and taking out the book? I can see a problem with this if i was then charging again for it, but im not. I think the riaa, miaa, mipa, etc should go after the real source of free information, your local/school/etc library. with all this free information on the loose, its a direct threat to our capitalist lifestyles and way of life. remember you're nothing with the new and improved brand y thingy-mabob. so help out the riaa/etc and take a torch to your local library. i think there was a cool book burning see in indiana jones and the last crusade, but it might have involved some nice german fellows in uniform.
Herr Reichskanzler, wird es nicht Zeit, dem dreckigen Juden endlich wieder das Maul zu stopfen? Der Jude bereichert sich seit Jahr und Tag am ehrbaren Buerger und pluendert ihn aus. Wir Patrioten duerfen uns das nicht laenger gefallen lassen. Doch diesmal ist der Jude zu weit gegangen und seine Geldgier wird ihn wieder zurueck in die Konzentrationslager zur Sonderbehandlung treiben.
Deutsche, kauft nicht beim Juden!
Amerikaner, kauft nicht beim Juden!
Ehrbare Weltbuerger, lasst euch nicht mehr die Unterdrueckung durch das Weltjudentum gefallen. Wehrt euch!
Its interesting that MIPI waited until just after the MGM v Grokster case to request and search.
Probably my tinfoil hat, but I wonder if a failure to find anything would have been detrimental to the Appeals Court case? The RIAA attorney tried to push the point that Grokster were complicit in "trafficking in pirated goods", which the judge duly scolded them for, as abusive.
The timing just seems a little funny?
i can't believe these people get so pissed about the distribution of music.. i still have yet to figure out why this is as big of a deal as the record industry is making it out to be..
it benefits the artist more than any type of distribution ever.. the RIAA in particular is just mad because they didn't think of the idea first.. you don't have to charge people for music, when in the long run the artist will have a HUGE fan base thanks to free distribution WORLDWIDE.. don't you think that the record industry could benefit like CRAZY by saving money on distribution and pressing costs?? help the artist.. don't destroy them..
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
People don't listen until people start dieing. They need to understand, that you do NOT walk into another mans house without first talking to his gun. F*cking RIAA/MPAA
Pirates of the Net
Everytime I read something like this it makes me glad I live in the U.S.
And the good people of South Carolina will replace him with a REPUBLICAN!
Lets hope he is not an owned Hollywood weasel too.
How about if Kazaa gets an Anton Pillar order against MIPI, on the suspicion that MIPI is using the infringing "Kazaa Lite" software?
and get shot the instant you set your first foot on the premises. No vigilant citizen should be expected to allow this madness. If the government does not protect you and your property from private intervention, heck, if it even endorses private break-in as similar to law enforcement with a warrant and due process unter public scrutiny, then it is the right and the duty of all law abiding citizens to withstand and prevent these actions and even if it sounds provocative: by all means necessary.
The United States of America have a long tradition of people's rights, human rights, democracy and personal freedom. If someone is undermining the very foundations of this country, if they try to finally corrupt the entire state starting with the legislative process through bought senators, bypassing the judicial branch through their own actions and even replacing the executive branch with their own mobsters, it is time for every citizen to react. Form militias, arm yourselves. This is exactly what the second amendmendment was created for: empowering the citizen to protect himself from unwarranted searches, abuse of governemntal powers and the failure of the offical system. Don't tolerate private companies violating private property! Don't tolerate companies who subvert the legal process! Don't tolerate the corruption of the land of the free!
And please remember the following sentences: "I don't agree with what you said, but I'd fight to my death for your right to say it!".
I don't endorse the breach of copyright or anything like that. Even if Sharman Networks did violate this law or another, I will not hesitate to fight with them or anyone else who is denied his constitutional rights and due process over a non-violent, non-capital and non-life threatening crime.
(Even if it sounds provocative or flamebait, it is not meant as such. I truly believe in the law and the constitution as the only rightful way to run a country. Posting logged-in to emphase this, even if the TIA and the rest of the three-letter agency scum will have a field day with their eternal databases. And yes, I reinstate: this comment is about about militant actions against the enemies of the constitution and yes I do make a call to arms against attempts to corrupt the last ones of our private rights.)
By the people - for the people. Nothing else!
It takes one to know one.
=-----------=
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
p2p networks have lots of other uses besides music and movie sharing. p2p networks good for sharing any very popular files. A good example where p2p networks might work very well for sharing debian packages.
IMHO some of the reasons why sharing movies online is so popular are
1) movies are released 6 months after they are in the US. So if I want to see a recent movie I must get it "illegally"!!
2) movies are simply too expensive to see in the movie theaters. Last year I saw 2 movies. I simply can not afford the "price" of movies, sorry I am not rich!!
3) renting movies alwasy struck me as dumb idea. I find watching a movie twice to be a rather unpleasent experience.
a) After I watching the movie once, it is worthless.
b) The movies I rent always have scratches.
So IMHO I should be able to buy a movie for around half the price of a movie ticket, because I don't have a big screen at home. And a movie that'a an old release should cost half as much again.
I currently buy most of the movies I watch for a little under $2.00 US per CD. And at that price p2p sharing is not worth the bother.
It is worth noting that you cannot blame the Aussies for the law, it is something they took from the UK and have retained, though both countries could drop it.
It is very, very rare -its a kind of pre-emptive seizure which can only be justified by the 'recipients will destroy the evidence' claim.
Note also that in the UK there are essentially no limits on what the state security organisations can do in the country. Unlike the US, where the CIA and NSA are allowed to break US and local laws abroad. I guess only the FBI can break laws on the US mainland?
Whatever, the key point is that one democratic countries legal system cannot and should not act as a replica for another. Britain has silly laws (anton pillar, Prevention of Terrorism (emergency powers) act 1974 + successors, RIP (the encryption one), and politicians (esp that david blunkett) are always trying to copy the worst bits of other countries. And that is where we all need to keep an eye on all 'harmonisation' programs, be they copyright, privacy, terrorism: they always go to the most repressive, not the least.
Although it's a bad thing for P2P users, the losers at Sharman and Brilliant Digital really deserve it after packing so much spyware into a product and shutting down KaZaa lite.
Waco all over again
By the time they (RIAA & friends) win the Kazaa battle, they have hopelessly lost the war. Major p2p networks are already going or have gone decentralized (overnet, kademlia), others will follow shortly, and thus will be nearly impossible to shut down.
This is not tin-foil hats, this is real. The U.S. Patriot act gives the government the right to go into your house go through your computer and never tell anyone they were there. Also, if you happen to figure out they were there, and you tell anyone, they can put you in jail.
Welcome to your country...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
.. and they raided my house and took it away! I mean honestly. Cocaine-making machines can be used for all kinds of legal purposes, such as... coffee tables.... and...umm... abstract decorative metal-art.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Freedom of speach has become a right that is very much open to "reasonable" limitations by the government. On the other hand the first amendment has protections in it for more then just speach, and the one protecting religion has never really been abridged.
I have never really been a big fan of organized Religion, but maybe if we made P2P traffic consist of a noticeable amount of traffic regarding religion, then the courts would have more difficulty allowing government oversight.
Just a thought.
Good stuff. Kudos.
A lot of porn companies apparently put samples on the file sharing networks as ads. Some apparently even include popups of their sites embedded in wmv's.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
I can only hope that the RIAA starts trying this sort of thing in the US, and that they attempt to "force" their way into my home. I'd suspect that I'd be on the telephone for quite a while with the RIAA arranging for the cleaning of my walls, the shampooing of my carpets, and the removal of the bodies of the henchmen at the RIAA's expense.
And to think, so many foreigners have decried the US's "fascination with firearms". It's for precisely things like this that we maintain our rights to bear arms. When private organizations can arbitrarily act as law enforcement for the state, the state becomes indistinguishable from a private organization. Thus, the battle for control begins. Your government has weapons, do you?
One thing Americans have, for the most part, retained is a healthy mistrust of their government. Hopefully, situations like this will bring more folks around in other nations. Big government solves little, though the problems it creates would make for an impossibly long list.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
You know who Sharman Networks needs to defend themselves from the MIPI/IFPI/RIAA/MPAA thugs? None other than Terry Tate, office linebacker, of course! :^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Caaaaaapisce!
ughaglugalhguhagluhagulhagul.
if the record industry could do math (or anything related to rational thought), they wouldn't be in the pickle they're in.
I guess the positive version of the Golden Rule ("do unto others what you would have them do unto you") really works. Or, in other words, karma's a b*@%h, RIAA.
This is, after all, the home of Rubert Murdoch. Rubert Murdoch, is after all, the biggest piece of trash in the known universe. FOX News is perhaps the larger purveyor of bullshit politics, including "conservative" policies of big government, foreign intervention, individual rights curtailment and the big "P" word - PIRACY. They may have not started it, but they certainly promoted the use of the term "pirate" for people who make copies of CDs and movies for personal, private use.
The only thing that is defensible about FOX is the Simpsons and to some extent Family Guy.
They have promoted war - for which they better start using those billions to air condition Hell, and for all we know, that bastard engineered the Bali bombing just to get Australia "into the war" - securing the old ties of white english speaking people under the stars and bars, if not the union jack.
Australia is a country by, of and for the corporation, just a sunnier and more laid back police state.
why... everyone knows that Australia is peopled by criminals! ;)
"... Oop, didn't aussie's already give up their guns?..."
And what happens when a freedom lovin' citizen of the good ol' U S of A greets The Man with a gun in his paw?
They kill him anyway and try to steal his house and land
Ain't democracy grand!
T&K.
Political language
---Do you really think that more than 1% of the traffic on Kazaa comes from legitimate sharing?--- In the hearing this week, RIAA lawyers claimed that there were 750 million files and only 10% of them were legal under copyright laws. Of course, this backfired a bit when the judge realized that meant 75 million legal transactions: "So 10 percent is non-infringing?" Noonan asked. "That sounds like a lot of non-infringing files to me."
search my home without a search warrant signed by a judge. Oh wait, I forgot, the DMCA. My fault. I better go encrypt my files.
While I don't know about the validity of the concept, I do know that there have been studies done exploring the concept that use of prostitutes (as well as having other sexual partners) outside of the marriage can help strengthen and keep the marriage together.
::: TANGENT AHEAD :::
Note that this isn't the same as "fidelity" in marriage, though. Some people have different concepts on what marriage and mutual love can mean/represent. Marriage is more of a contract of trust and commitment. That doesn't mean that two people (who are married) couldn't come to a mutual, trusted agreement to allow each other to seek partners outside of marriage (ie, "open marriages"). It is when that trust breaks down (ie, not telling the other person - whether that is at the beginning or elsewise, not sharing feelings, etc), that the marriage is likely to fall apart.
This is where the concept of poligamy (and polyamory) is twisted in so many individual's minds. For these people, it seems inconceivable that more than two (unrelated) people can love each other in both a mutual and sexually based manner revolving around trust - yet have no problem with the concept of loving families (that is, groups of family-related people who love each other in a mutual, non-sexual, and trusted manner).
Once again, if the trust breaks down - whether it is between two people in a traditional or "open" marriage, three or more people in a polygamous or polyamorous "marriage", many people (in a traditional loving family), or hundreds of people (in a corporation) - that structure is going to break down. We see it with so-called "loving" marriages that fall apart, dysfunctional families on Jerry Springer (I know, cheap shot), and Enron.
It has nothing to do with the structure, but rather the trust (and in the case of marriages and families, the love being exchanged via that trust).
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
HERE HERE! MOD THIS MAN UP! this law would just *NEVER* work in the US, not without the cops being there to oversee everything. legal firearms and a very liberal policy on self defense when it involves a stranger coming into another persons home would make this the most hazardous job in the world.
again....
Like tell me, how the fuck do you plan on defending yerself against like say, the pure brute force tactics of a DEA raid, which in LA include tank like objects with battering rams, choppers, SWAT teams.. A whole host of firearms?
Then there YOU are.. 'MeriKKan sitting on the front porch in a rocker with your double barrelled shotgun?
mmmmmkay..
We cant even get into the NON possibility of you taking out the national guard, etc..
So what the fuck is it with you gun nuts, besides from the fact you're just that: Nuts?
I mean, guns are cool, I guess.. I'm not into them, but to each his own.. But this I will defend myself against the greatest armed forces in the entire world thing simply has to go.
It makes you look like a bunch of kooks.
We must stop these evil file sharers before they destroy the world economy! We can simply shutdown all of these corrupt organizations that you mention, because they are obviously criminal.
We can create laws to prevent Gnutella, EDonkey and all the p2p software. Then we can ban IRC because obviously it's evil, just look at how many evil h4xx0r's are there.
What's this? Eff Tee Pee can be used to transfer files? Shut that down too. And email, you can send copyrighted material in email? And look at all that porn spam and virus' spread by spammers. Evil I tell you! We must legislate them away!
And you say people can use 'browsers' to request files from remote computers. Shut them down, obviously this is only used by corrupt youth trying to steal from poor Britney Spears. We must prevent computers from being able to transfer any type of files at all! Then we will have a nice clean internet that any God-fearing patriot can use freely and not fear that the evul hackers will steal his copyrighted music that he sells through the RIAA.
What's that you say? People can just meet in person and swap cd's or tapes? Crime! Crime! Anyone seen talking to another person in public is commiting a crime! For that matter, anyone talking to someone behind closed doors is so blatently breaking the law that we might as well shoot them on the spot.
Now, all of you sit quietly in your grey cubicle and don't look at one another.
YOU! You there, I can tell that you're *THINKING*! Stop it now or we'll give you a labotomy!
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
Sharman Networks should immediately request the ability to do the exact same thing to MIPI. MIPI most likely has modified versions of Kazaa running on their systems to monitor the Kazaa network. If Sharman can at least determine from their servers that this is probable within MIPI's IP address space, they should get the same right.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Could you link us some pictures please?
"how the fuck do you plan on defending yerself against like say, the pure brute force tactics of a DEA raid, which in LA include tank like objects with battering rams, choppers, SWAT teams."
... " But this I will defend myself against the greatest armed forces in the entire world thing simply has to go."
DEA != RIAA.
The RIAA raiders might have handguns, if even that. I would suspect that allowing the raiders to carry guns in the course of their jobs would open the RIAA up to such a horrendous liability that they wouldn't risk using an openly-armed militia-like force. Against 5 lightly armed men who are trying into my home, I could do considerable damage. I suspect that the first two would drop before anyone knew the raid had gone bad. Whoever runs away can go, but invade my home and die.
"We cant even get into the NON possibility of you taking out the national guard, etc.."
I said defend, I never said defeat. First of all, I have absolutely no problem complying with a valid search warrant, signed by a judge, supported by oath or affirmation, with those executing the warrant behaving in good faith, so long as the warrant and search are respectively obtained and executed within the bounds of the Constitution. I'm not doing anything worthy of my home being searched, so I'm not terribly worried about being served with a search warrant. That being said, if the government began a campaign of breaking down doors to go on "fishing expeditions" as we call them here in the 'States, they're going to run into a problem when they get to my door. That doesn't mean that armored vehicles and helicopters are coming down at my hands, but it does mean that I'm not about to roll over like many others seem content to do. You apparently have either never heard, or simply don't believe in the phrase, "better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees". Or perhaps this one makes a bit more sense for you - "Live Free or Die".
"So what the fuck is it with you gun nuts, besides from the fact you're just that: Nuts?"
Gun nut? I own a few firearms, mostly for hunting, a couple for protection. Other than that, I'm not terribly into them. I don't subscribe to magazines and newsletters and such for guns, nor am I an NRA member or associated with any of the crazy militia groups. I'm just someone who values my liberty more than my life. I consider that the only non-cowardly take on the subject. I have no respect whatsoever for those who would relinquish their liberty in a vain effort to preserve their life. To me, such a life and such a way of life is pyrrhic by its very nature. My take on guns is that they provide protection not from overwhelming force, but from the self-preservation instinct that beseiges each individual to surrender liberty to tyranny when called upon to do so under penalty of death. A gun can be a tool to give one the courage to stand up and be prepared to pay the ultimate price in an effort to preserve the very things that make life worthwhile. Death is not defeat when one dies fighting for liberty. In this case, death is a victory, as the tyrant no longer holds any conceivable power over you, and you have died with honor.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
His mistake was hesitating and obeying authorities. You shoot them dead first, as time and again law enforcement have shown themselves to be just another group of thugs.
Every year it looks like K W Jeter's Nior is the 1984 of our generation.
Serves them right. Those kazaa thingies make that annoying sound, like a high-pitch armpit fart, and when people play music with them --ugh. I hope they have their skin peeled off with a utility blade.
One question, why are the toilet paper people at Sharman making kazaa thingies? It make no senth to me.
Are you seriously so stupid that you cannot realize that you also "give up freedom" when you turn over control to a private organization (company or corporation)?
As a citizen I have rights. As a "consumer" I have none, save to buy or to sell.
I'll take being a citizen over being a "consumer" any day.
Debunking the "59 Deceits"
This is why every business should have bouncers, preferably 7 foot tall Black Bouncers. They won't take shit from anyone, and unless that person or persons has a badge (police badge) they ain't gettin' in, period! Or just shoot them for trespassing and then make up some story that you felt your life was being threatened. Just be sure to have a knife to put in their hand and be sure to sure them from the front. :)
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
Here in Texas, if a stranger trespasses on your property and tries to "raid" it, you can legally shoot them.
COME ON, YOU RIAA FELLERS!!
I take it you are one of those to whom Benjaman Franklin was refering when he made the comment about "he who would give up a his liberty for a bit of security deserves neither" Or words to that effect.
Sorry. Our constitution's appended "Bill of Rights", aka the first 10 amendments to that grand old document, serve as the guarantee that we *will* stay a free country.
Go and read it, particularly the 1st and 2nd. The 1st guarantees your right to say anything you please as long as its not libelous. Recently amended by the non-patriot act part 2 and the campaign finance reform law to specifically enjoin anyone from saying something factual but detrimental about a currrent office holder within 60 days of a general election.
That, in and of itself, is unconstitutional according to the 1st amendment, but the supremes have somehow managed to warp their version of the first amendment around to protect the incumbents.
The 2nd guarantees the citizens rights to the tools to change that government back to a constitutionally constructed one should it deviate from that path and the need arise.
Some states, and some feds are hell bent on nibbling that right away like a flock of ducks.
Funny thing is that as of right now 32 states have signed onto some sort of legislation affirming that right, with another 1 or 2 coming on-board every year. Fortunately, I live in one of those states, so yes, if they come knocking on my door, they had better have a duely sworn and signed by a judge known to me, notarized search warrant in hand and readable by me else the ultimate weapon will be used to defend my home. Without that document in hand, they have no more standing than the average burglar. That my erstwhile friend, is my constitutional right.
As Thomas Paine, whose signature is on that grand old document, once said, "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
In my state if you are in my house I can shoot you, legally.
So come on in and look through my stuff.
they set foot in my house, i'll fuckin beat the shit out of them, shoot them in the head and chop them up into little pieces. Who cares if i go to jail? I'll have killed a whole bunch in the process
AMERICA IS A POLICE STATE, and becoming a FASCIST POLICE STATE. BUSH AND BASTARD CRONIES ARE TRYING TO SCARE US INTO SUBMISSION. FUCK THEM AND THEIR OIL MONEY, AND THE ILLEGAL PATRIOT ACT.
I hope you're as young as you sound. Do you really think that the people planning these raids didn't anticipate resistance? Here in the US, they take the court order to the sheriff's department and sheriff's deputies take care of knocking down your door and neutralizing you while the plaintiff's representatives conduct the search. If you're determined to die in a bloody gun battle with law enforcement rather than give up your warez collection, that's fine. Otherwise, you should realize that shooting at lawfully authorized people entering your dwelling is far more serious and dangerous than any copyright issue.
Your assumption that you would prevail in such a battle shows utter naivety, solipsism and underestimation of the opponent.
The obvious thing, which you don't need any specialized knowledge to understand, is that people who routinely enforce such orders will be vastly better equipped and prepared than you are for the type of confrontation you're planning.
I fail to see how sharing pirated songs and movies is a form of speech.
Very simple and very true. "I'm from the RIAA, and I am coming in" would be last words uttered by the poor shrill.
Are you saying that Kazaa is used to communicate? That's what webpages and blogs are for. Just because Kazaa has a chat client doesn't mean it exists as a "press". People use it to share files, not to communicate news or information to the world. You could argue that files represent nothing more than information but that isn't exactly a grey area. We are talking about a network that is being used to distribute copyrighted material (be it porn, movies, mp3s, etc).
That is a rather weak analogy IMHO. The freedom of speech does not entitle one to copyright infringement, particularly if said infringement can be linked to a loss of profit to the copyright holder. Whether these losses exist is another issue, I am only arguing the legality of the freedom of speech and the press and it's application here.
The right to swing your fist ends where the other person's nose begins.
Back to the subject at hand - Australians should be screaming murder. This is a blatant infringement of their rights and we should be adopting the US legal system. Intimidation tactic or not, no private citizen has the right to organise and conduct a search. If they have legal grounds, petition the courts and let the court take care it (like the Europeans have). Otherwise they can kiss my a$$.
you forgot some of the others lumped under feds:
NSA
USCIS
DHS
Border Patrol
ATF
DOJ
IRS
Customs
Secret Service
Postal Inpector
USFWS
FTC
Indian Affairs
~GoAT~
I.e.,, I have the RIGHT to PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. Something as a "consumer" I cannot do.
I can submit bills to become law, that includes getting my money back from SS, if I and others think that's a good idea. Or I can submit a bill that allows myself and others to invest money that otherwise would have gone into SS into the stockmarket.
I have the right TO BECOME THE GOVERNMENT by holding public office. Thus I can change whether or not any money is "squandered".
I cannot do this unilaterally, just by myself with no one elses involvement, and that's probably what your confusing with "freedom".
However democracy (or democratic republicanism if your a hairsplitting sophmoric geek), requires working with others, compromising if necessary, and acting with more than one's own interests in mind.
Petulent spoiled children can't tolerate doing this so they prefer the tiny sandbox called "the market" where they can be "free" to indulge in the choices that others have chosen to offer them.
That isn't freedom because it doesn't give you the power to create, only the power to refuse. Democracy, on the other hand, does give you the power to create. To create a new social order limited only by your imagination and your willingness to share.
Debunking the "59 Deceits"
The legal raid on Telstra was caused by the fact that some content from Kazaa's site is actually served from webservers in Telstra's network. Kazaa uses the Content Delivery Network service Akamai to serve content from several subdomains including images.kazaa.com. If you click on the link below, you will see that it resolves to an Akamai server that is located within Telstra's central network. http://tcruskit.telstra.net/cgi-bin/trace?images.k azaa.com
OK, try this. I'll call it the Godwin Convergence Corollary:
To prevent the abuse of this powerful facility, there are two rules regarding its use.
Are there still some people BUYING music. We are looking at an endangered species.
Only crap paysites these days buy their content (or, in more industry terms - have "non-exclusive" content.)
The real big sites (bangbus, milfhunter, etc) - all of that is their own exclusive content.
And it is just as much copyrighted content (and thus infringement) as anything else on Kazaa.
In the law there is no overlap between theft and copyright infringement whatsoever.
Actually, I like sharpening my claws on these rotting rags - it makes a satisfying ripping sound. And I find the arctic rivulets around town to be refreshing, like a Canadian spring.
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make install -not war
Interpol??? You would open your door to Interpol???
Point being, if the law wants in, I'll let them in of course. But if some dork with a RIAA hat wants in my house, he's getting hurt.
Found it, finally. The authority for the private party (record labels) to raid Sharman's various offices came from something called an Anton Piller order. The would-be raiders go before the court, lay out their accusation of copyright infringement, and then explain that the evidence may be removed if the soon-to-be defendant learns of the raid before it happens. If the court buys it, the court issues an order stating that the raid can take place and what the conditions are going to be. The order gets its name from a 1976 court case called Anton Pillar KG. v. Manufacturing Processes Ltd. et al. [1976] R.P.C. 719, which was the first time a court issued such an order.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Thanks for the citations, orthogonal. (Doesn't the Internet just beat the heck out of the Readers Guide To Periodicals as a research tool?)
Both of these articles cite money laundering as the non-terrorist activity being prosecuted under the Patriot Act. But that's a little misleading, since both the Money Laundering Control Act and the Bank Secrecy Act already existed.
I'm not going to lose sleep at night over the fact the government knows how much is in my bank account, since it can infer it from my tax returns anyway. I'd just prefer that every telemarketer in the world not know.
Ferrier Hodgson contact emails
Michael Potter (Forensic Divsion)
mpotter@syd.fh.com.au
Steve Sherman (Partner)
ssherman@syd.fh.com.au
Ian Ferrier (Partner)
iferrier@syd.fh.com.au
Main Switch +61 2 9286 9999
Main Fax +61 2 9286 9888
Yes, it would be impossible for the Americans to think that people from another country could beat them at something!
Does it bother you how vulnerable to "due process violation" case dismissal these "Patriot Act" searches are when conducted on nonterror suspects? Apart from the dilution of due process, the very freedom underlying our entire form of government, the effects of tainting all that evidence as inadmissible will free those criminals, while distracting those cops and prosecutors from fighting economic crime as well as terrorism. Why bother fearing malevolence, when incompetence is destroying us across the country?
--
make install -not war
Huh? What assertion would that be? I have not characterized the prosecution of other crimes under the Patriot Act in any way; the two articles cited by orthogonal do not mention the word "abuse". Only you have characterized them as abuses. Again you attempt to assign some sort of straw man argument to me.
Sorry, had I known I was addressing someone without a sense of humor I would have replied: "Given his commitment to law enforcement, surely John Ashcroft would not favor a provision in the Patriot Act that would serve to weaken the probability of conviction."
I am not a troll, as I have exhibited none of the behaviors associated with one in the Wikipedia. I do note, however, that two of your last twenty-four posts were flamebait...
What I'm "driving at here" is that the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) existed and was being used against money launderers before there ever was a Patriot Act. So to say "the Patriot Act is going after non-terror suspects" is misleading. It would be more correct to say that "the Patriot Act uses FinCEN to obtain banking information on suspected terrorists much as it has been previously used to obtain banking information on suspected money launderers".
Wait, can I stop you for a minute? I've had people accuse me of having a specious argument before, but never a specious question. Your misapplication of Brobdingnagian words (e.g., malfeasance) is execrable. Please try to remember to spell-check (e.g., uncouch [sic], unnaccountable [sic], challengable [sic]).
Sir or madam, in the best tradition of the Socratic Method I put a question to orthogonal, which he answered, to my gratitude and enlightenment. I read, but did not agree with the opinion expressed by the ACLU, EFF, et al in the articles that FinCEN's use constituted an invasion of privacy. I do not recognize a constitutional right to conduct financial activities in government-regulated banks with anonymity.
Yet you snipe at me with ad hominem attacks and questions irrelevant to my personal line of inquiry: the line of demarcation between the constitutional right of the people "...to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures...", privacy, if you will, and anonymity wherein one is free to commit acts in support of terrorism with impunity.
There's a saying that goes "Don't wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it."
Good day.
uxo, you're a dud.
I called your question specious, because it looks like a real question, but falsely leads the debate away from the issue, which is that you think the Patriot Act's abuse of justice is a joke. I'm not going to sink to defending my posts from your trivial "spellcheck" criticism, especially when I've responded so lucidly to so much drivel, Anonymous and otherwise, in this thread. But I posit that your intimidation by "big words" betrays your denial of the fuzzy logic you hide with "plain talk".
My sense of humor requires jokes to be funny, not merely sick. None of the money launderers, or the many other people spied upon for police purposes other than terrorism, are subject to the Patriot Act's terrorism scope. And even a suspected terrorist has 4th amendment rights not to be spied upon without judicial oversight. That protects all of us from a threat actually greater, in its reality, than the terrorism talk floated daily by Ashcroft and his henchmen.
*You* are the one who wriggles around with sidestepping "joking" disclaimers, while I have been completely consistent. If you want to drop your privacy, your liberty in the name of finding this year's model bogeymen, go ahead, but don't expect me to, or to respect you when you do. Don't question why I need to be so free. I'll tell you it's the only way to be.
--
make install -not war