It also makes the USA a very untrustworthy trading partner. You'll never know if the device you're buying has been manipulated or if the company you trade with has to cancel the contract because the US is against free trade and free speech.
But now i'm starting to understand why the US have to make war against all the "bad guys" they've been nursing up all this years: Nobody's willing to TRADE or DISCUSS with them anymore...
Just take a look at key military technology in the '60s and '70s:
First men in space: Russia (implies better ICBMs)
First operational jetfighter with thrust-vectoring (MIG): Russia
First working long-term space stations: Russia (also used for spying)
First undedectable stealth fighter dedected and shot down by: Russian technology in Yugoslavia (nice done, guys!)
World's most powerfull rocket: Russia (Energija), implies that they could launch a BIG amount of plutonium for a BIG shot.
Most reliable rocket technology: Russia
First figher plane with look-and-lock systems (you look at your enemy and the rockets automatically lock onto that target): Russia (IMHO the MIG25)
Well, sure, USA has a great deal of hightech gadgets lying around, but the Soviets are the guys that actually made them working.
There was also a big fuss about that the USSR stole the space shuttle technology for their Buran shuttle. Actually, the Buran uses a more modern design, has a much higher capacity, better aerodynamics and even can fly completly on automatic (whereas the US shuttle must be landed per joystick).
Sure, the USSR stole *some* technology, but the US wasn't any better. Didn't they steal MIG's whenever they saw a chance, just to try out how to beat them in air combat and integrate russian thruster-design into US fighters?
...that is was OpenSource that copied the code (at least not on one of its first claims): "We're finding...cases where there is line-by-line code in the Linux kernel that is matching up to our UnixWare code"
All that is saying that the lines match up. What's interesting about that sentence is that they weren't sure at this time it was really SCO's code.
If the revision logs had clearly stated that the lines where copied TO Linux he would have said something in the line of "We're finding...cases where there is MATCHING line-by-line code in the Linux kernel that HAS BEEN COPIED FROM our UnixWare code"
>... doing a survey of the population of Internet users is more than a little selective.
Did you notice: Most of the countries they surveyed are currently re-running at least 3 of that annoying american-style no-plot-whatsoever soaps made in the early '80 (like Dallas, Falcon Crest, AL Bundy).
Of course nobody WANTS to watch TV anymore.
Well, there are still the news, but they should be more correctly named "scarry olds". Like "guess what, Bush is attacking another country... again *sigh*" or "guess what, some fella from a country we can't pronounce died of a mysterious illness... that will later get identified as a bottle of Jack Daniels" or "SCO's managers still couldn't find a shred of proof so they are threatening even more companies to hide that fact"...
Sick, really:-)
I'd say: The more universities offering computer sciences courses that teach *real* computer science (as opposed to teaching how to use WinWord), the more your traffic will drop.
See the positive side: You will have to spend less time writing beginner tutorials:-)
As long as you can find the mechanics (motors, gears and such), the electronics are not a real problem these days.
Advanced microcontrollers are sold starting from $1. You may search for BASIC-stamps or take a look at the development boards from http://www.zilog.com
You can always ask me through./ messages if you need help.
But the REAL problem, as said above, will be the more simplistic parts like motors and gears...
We would be very pleased if you can come to visit us. But we're also planing to run a telnet-based real-time BlinkenStream and a Webcam for those who can not come.
> It also means the government is looking for a cooler way to monitor traffic.
That would be very good, because if you got the spying hardware in your hands you're able to analyze it - and then prepare it to match your own ideas of what the government should know about you. This theoretical hardware would have to send out information somehow - information that can be tampered.
For example: You buy such a router and the NSA activates the spy-software. But because you have modified it a bit they only get to see that you are only doing perfectly legal things (even if you aren't). If it comes to a trial anyway, you can force them to show up all the logs which are in YOUR favor:-)
Europe is another story. You always stay the copyright owner and have the rights to say what happens with the code.
The point is: Copyright is always enforced in the country of the copyright owner. So if the GPL gets declared illegal in the states, they STILL have to pay up the original authors when they are non-US...
"The GPL violates the U.S. Constitution together with copyright, antitrust and export control laws"
Funny, but at least the first versions of Linux where made in Europe and where then "imported" into the states. So it could only violate import-laws in the first time.
Anyway, let's just stick one moment to the "export control law violation" theory. If they can prove it, they are going to jail. Because they exported their Linux-distri worldwide.
Nice to think of: If they win in court, they not only get the IP-mafia shutting them down but also get i "nice" involvment of the NSA/CIA crowd for illegaly exporting software.
BTW: Did they happen to bundle encryption software into their distri?
"You seem to mistakenly assume that the authors would be somehow obliged to accept payment."
No, what i had in mind was that companies like SCO only understand the language of money. If say them "we don't like what you are doing. stop using our software" it may take YEARS before the judge decides. If you charge them for every single line of code it has most likely an immediate impact on their accounts.
The REAL humor is that SCO itself uses alot of code from the BSD Unices.
When the GPL fails they don't *have* to stop using it. They just have to PAY for it.
The big question is: WHITH WHAT? The guys are already forced to selling their grandma's just to pay up their lawyer right now...
Well, SCO and the other have made a contract. They work together and sell their distributions. Even while SCO has stopped selling distris, they are still enforced to do their share of contributions.
Really funny to think of it. They fight against a project they still (have to) invest in.
>Surely if the GPL was void, wouldn't microsoft already have proven that by now??
I'm not sure about that. Remember: If the GPL really *IS* void, so would the BSD-style licenses.
That would mean that the big companies would have to pay every author of every line of open-source software they use. Microsoft would inevitably loose their IP-stack (taken from *BSD) and SCO would probably have to buy back most of the software they use.
Remember: The GNU-tools and -software is NOT Unix, especially when it comes to the gcc-compiler.
Re-programming APIs (which is more or less the claim that SCO has against the linux-kernel) is proven to be legal, otherwise Microsoft would already have wiped out Lindows, wouldn't they?
Anyway, even if SCO *could* win in the US, the rest of the world is another case. And i really doubt US government will let it pass that the states will loose their money (and many of their programmers as well) when the rest of the world is using open source while they have to buy crappy software from a nearly-bankrupt company that threats to shut down everybody who isn't kneeling before them...
> I fail to see how anyone can claim that calling me at 5:00 pm while I'm eating dinner to sell me life insurance or ask if I REALLY want to change phone companies for the umpteenth time is 'free speech'.
Here in Austria/Europe it's illegal to make commercial calls to private persons when they are not already your customers. Well, it still sometimes happens, but police mostly shuts them down first and asks questions later.
Works fine and the industry has not problem with that (expect that idiotic telemarketers of course).
First of all: How do you get upgrades? Do you have to throw away the sofa when it isn't supported anymore?
So the sofa can communicate to other hardware? So what happens if it got a remote exploit? Do you have to take it back to your vendor or do you have to re-install it?
Or just imagine: You bring your new girlfriend to your home and try to have romance (or s?x) on the sofa, but you're getting interupted all the time because the sofa's constantly asking to input your girlfriends personal data and favourite tv programs:-(
Not that i own a TV, btw...
So i guess i stick with the standard couch for the moment, making up my own home automation where i see fit...
Well, that would be the point where i delete your email without reading it - no matter how important it is.
I won't accept that someone else can tell me how to read my mails (long ones are best printed), how to store them and/or if i'm allowed to forward it to my second account.
> Should I trust the security certificate from a hacker site?
Thats the point: You shouldn't. At the congress i once even saw a certificate sign by "You have been hacked, Inc." or something like that:-)
Slashdot Mirror
I agree.
It also makes the USA a very untrustworthy trading partner. You'll never know if the device you're buying has been manipulated or if the company you trade with has to cancel the contract because the US is against free trade and free speech.
But now i'm starting to understand why the US have to make war against all the "bad guys" they've been nursing up all this years: Nobody's willing to TRADE or DISCUSS with them anymore...
Just take a look at key military technology in the '60s and '70s:
First men in space: Russia (implies better ICBMs)
First operational jetfighter with thrust-vectoring (MIG): Russia
First working long-term space stations: Russia (also used for spying)
First undedectable stealth fighter dedected and shot down by: Russian technology in Yugoslavia (nice done, guys!)
World's most powerfull rocket: Russia (Energija), implies that they could launch a BIG amount of plutonium for a BIG shot.
Most reliable rocket technology: Russia
First figher plane with look-and-lock systems (you look at your enemy and the rockets automatically lock onto that target): Russia (IMHO the MIG25)
Well, sure, USA has a great deal of hightech gadgets lying around, but the Soviets are the guys that actually made them working.
There was also a big fuss about that the USSR stole the space shuttle technology for their Buran shuttle. Actually, the Buran uses a more modern design, has a much higher capacity, better aerodynamics and even can fly completly on automatic (whereas the US shuttle must be landed per joystick).
Sure, the USSR stole *some* technology, but the US wasn't any better. Didn't they steal MIG's whenever they saw a chance, just to try out how to beat them in air combat and integrate russian thruster-design into US fighters?
...how are they supposed to mimick windows? You don't have to reboot Lindows every time you move the mouse, so THAT can't be the point :-)
...that is was OpenSource that copied the code (at least not on one of its first claims):
"We're finding...cases where there is line-by-line code in the Linux kernel that is matching up to our UnixWare code"
All that is saying that the lines match up. What's interesting about that sentence is that they weren't sure at this time it was really SCO's code.
If the revision logs had clearly stated that the lines where copied TO Linux he would have said something in the line of "We're finding...cases where there is MATCHING line-by-line code in the Linux kernel that HAS BEEN COPIED FROM our UnixWare code"
Something like that, anyway...
How will this whole affair the public language in the future?
./?
Will they be Bride'ing instead of "making false claims"? Will they "go to SCO" instead of "going to the toilet"?
Will we refer to "Darls" instead of "Trolls" on
You could send them toilet paper with SCO shares printed on it. So they can already get in the mood for the months to come :-)
I'm waiting for them to try it in Germany or Austria (Europe) again...
They already got problems with the laws for selling a licenses without telling what they are licensing....
> ... doing a survey of the population of Internet users is more than a little selective.
Did you notice: Most of the countries they surveyed are currently re-running at least 3 of that annoying american-style no-plot-whatsoever soaps made in the early '80 (like Dallas, Falcon Crest, AL Bundy).
Of course nobody WANTS to watch TV anymore.
Well, there are still the news, but they should be more correctly named "scarry olds". Like "guess what, Bush is attacking another country ... again *sigh*" or "guess what, some fella from a country we can't pronounce died of a mysterious illness... that will later get identified as a bottle of Jack Daniels" or "SCO's managers still couldn't find a shred of proof so they are threatening even more companies to hide that fact"...
Sick, really :-)
ROFL
I'd say: The more universities offering computer sciences courses that teach *real* computer science (as opposed to teaching how to use WinWord), the more your traffic will drop. See the positive side: You will have to spend less time writing beginner tutorials :-)
As long as you can find the mechanics (motors, gears and such), the electronics are not a real problem these days.
./ messages if you need help.
Advanced microcontrollers are sold starting from $1. You may search for BASIC-stamps or take a look at the development boards from http://www.zilog.com
You can always ask me through
But the REAL problem, as said above, will be the more simplistic parts like motors and gears...
During the 20th Chaos Congress there's also a big BlinkenArea with the Blinkenlights team and many model projects.
See BlinkenArea for more information.
We would be very pleased if you can come to visit us. But we're also planing to run a telnet-based real-time BlinkenStream and a Webcam for those who can not come.
> It also means the government is looking for a cooler way to monitor traffic.
:-)
That would be very good, because if you got the spying hardware in your hands you're able to analyze it - and then prepare it to match your own ideas of what the government should know about you. This theoretical hardware would have to send out information somehow - information that can be tampered.
For example: You buy such a router and the NSA activates the spy-software. But because you have modified it a bit they only get to see that you are only doing perfectly legal things (even if you aren't). If it comes to a trial anyway, you can force them to show up all the logs which are in YOUR favor
That may work in the States. Maybe.
Europe is another story. You always stay the copyright owner and have the rights to say what happens with the code.
The point is: Copyright is always enforced in the country of the copyright owner. So if the GPL gets declared illegal in the states, they STILL have to pay up the original authors when they are non-US...
"The GPL violates the U.S. Constitution together with copyright, antitrust and export control laws"
Funny, but at least the first versions of Linux where made in Europe and where then "imported" into the states. So it could only violate import-laws in the first time.
Anyway, let's just stick one moment to the "export control law violation" theory. If they can prove it, they are going to jail. Because they exported their Linux-distri worldwide.
Nice to think of: If they win in court, they not only get the IP-mafia shutting them down but also get i "nice" involvment of the NSA/CIA crowd for illegaly exporting software.
BTW: Did they happen to bundle encryption software into their distri?
"You seem to mistakenly assume that the authors would be somehow obliged to accept payment."
No, what i had in mind was that companies like SCO only understand the language of money. If say them "we don't like what you are doing. stop using our software" it may take YEARS before the judge decides. If you charge them for every single line of code it has most likely an immediate impact on their accounts.
You forgot to mention that it also violates the Federations Prime directive by interfering with the under-developed folks at SCO...
Well, EULA's are only valid in a few countries anyway. But it's because you have to buy the product *before* you get to see the contract...
The REAL humor is that SCO itself uses alot of code from the BSD Unices. When the GPL fails they don't *have* to stop using it. They just have to PAY for it. The big question is: WHITH WHAT? The guys are already forced to selling their grandma's just to pay up their lawyer right now...
Well, SCO and the other have made a contract. They work together and sell their distributions. Even while SCO has stopped selling distris, they are still enforced to do their share of contributions.
Really funny to think of it. They fight against a project they still (have to) invest in.
Any comments? 8-)
>Surely if the GPL was void, wouldn't microsoft already have proven that by now??
I'm not sure about that. Remember: If the GPL really *IS* void, so would the BSD-style licenses.
That would mean that the big companies would have to pay every author of every line of open-source software they use. Microsoft would inevitably loose their IP-stack (taken from *BSD) and SCO would probably have to buy back most of the software they use.
Remember: The GNU-tools and -software is NOT Unix, especially when it comes to the gcc-compiler.
Re-programming APIs (which is more or less the claim that SCO has against the linux-kernel) is proven to be legal, otherwise Microsoft would already have wiped out Lindows, wouldn't they?
Anyway, even if SCO *could* win in the US, the rest of the world is another case. And i really doubt US government will let it pass that the states will loose their money (and many of their programmers as well) when the rest of the world is using open source while they have to buy crappy software from a nearly-bankrupt company that threats to shut down everybody who isn't kneeling before them...
> I fail to see how anyone can claim that calling me at 5:00 pm while I'm eating dinner to sell me life insurance or ask if I REALLY want to change phone companies for the umpteenth time is 'free speech'.
Here in Austria/Europe it's illegal to make commercial calls to private persons when they are not already your customers. Well, it still sometimes happens, but police mostly shuts them down first and asks questions later.
Works fine and the industry has not problem with that (expect that idiotic telemarketers of course).
First of all: How do you get upgrades? Do you have to throw away the sofa when it isn't supported anymore?
:-(
So the sofa can communicate to other hardware? So what happens if it got a remote exploit? Do you have to take it back to your vendor or do you have to re-install it?
Or just imagine: You bring your new girlfriend to your home and try to have romance (or s?x) on the sofa, but you're getting interupted all the time because the sofa's constantly asking to input your girlfriends personal data and favourite tv programs
Not that i own a TV, btw...
So i guess i stick with the standard couch for the moment, making up my own home automation where i see fit...
Well, that would be the point where i delete your email without reading it - no matter how important it is. I won't accept that someone else can tell me how to read my mails (long ones are best printed), how to store them and/or if i'm allowed to forward it to my second account.
> Should I trust the security certificate from a hacker site? Thats the point: You shouldn't. At the congress i once even saw a certificate sign by "You have been hacked, Inc." or something like that :-)