That may well be the case now that WMP has achieved such a huge market pentration and so much media is released in WMP format, but you have to remember that this is a situation which has been brought about by illegal practices on the part of Microsoft.
"This is yet another case of governments thinking that they know what they are doing in the tech sector, but are plainly, completely, clueless."
So the soloution is...
What exactly ? Now that the EU has judged that the MS behaviour is against the trading rules of EU they cannot just turn a blind eye and say
"OK MS, you're a big company and this is a tricky problem so why don't you just carry on exactly as you like and then maybe in 5 years time the situation will be much more complicated and harder to fix, but for now we'll just ignore it."
They have to take action and the action they seem to proposing seems like a sensible soloution to me.
Just a small point but the EU in fact consists of more than one country and I suspect anyone in Microsoft advocating such a policy would not be in Microsoft for very long.
Well I guess the Courts and, by definition, the Law is wrong on this one then. Perhaps you could provide some training to all these misguided Judges and Lawyers, maybe let them see some of your definitions and we could have this whole debacle sorted out in a jiffy.
Hmm yeah, that's a good definition of freedom isn't is
"If you don't like Windows you pre packaged with WMP you can always choose another O/S"
"If you don't like living under the current regime you are perfectly free to live under it no longer. We will even help kill you."
What people would like is the ability, or freedom, to see the cost of WMP and if they think they can get by with a cheaper alternative to not buy WMP and buy the alternative instead.
But you're right it's not a freedom issue, it's about Microsoft exploiting it's monopoly position to influence other markets. It's the job of the government to regulate this kind of behaviour and it's good that the EU is taking it's regulatory obligations seriously.
"Each has there own use, but this has got to be the most retarded lawsuit i've EVER heard of."
I think you've totally missed the point of this. Certainly I'm not arguing that basic sound support shouldn't be a part of an Operaring System but Media Player goes far beyond that, it is a fully featured Application.
Other companies would like to sell these kind of applications to people and make money out of it however with MS giving it away for nothing to 90% of computer users they don't have hope of selling anything.
You cannot buy Windows without Media Player, so you do not have the opportunity to compare it's price and value against other similar products.
From Microsofts point of view the current situation is very nice for them; Media Player is installed on 90% of computer users PC's, Media Player uses it's own proprietry formats, downloading music is becoming big business - suppliers are very tempted to use Media Player formats because of it's market penetration, Microsoft can call the shots.
From everyone else's point of view this is clearly a case of Microsoft using it's monopoly in the O/S system market to influence and gain control of other areas.
" So can't OEM people install real, etc before selling at the moment? Guess not."
Of course they can do but why would they ? They can't buy a cheaper version of Windows without a media player so there's no point in them shopping around for a cheaper alternative.
Stripping out Media Player from Windows will allow the OEM's to judge Media Player vs it's rivals on a fair footing, e.g. knowing the cost of each application.
In theory anyway, I hope there is some provision that the two versions of windows will need to maintain some kind of sensible price differentiation.
A lot of that maybe true but what do you suggest is done about it ?
We all now live and work in a global economy, corporations have no nationality and will inevitably exploit the differences in the cost of living and standard wages globally in order to increase their profits.
You mention the problems of moving 'American' jobs to India but fail to realise that they not 'American jobs' as in jobs belonging to Americans but 'American jobs' as in jobs being performed by Americans. Companies that can recruit from a global workforce view you as a 'resource' and don't care if you are American, Indian or Chinese.
So yes outsourcing may well not be a good thing for you, or me either but the companies don't really care about you, me or America.
In the long run of course there is the view that outsourcing is a good thing since it will begin to even up the difference in wealth and standard of living across the globe, the trouble is that like a see saw this means one side will be going down whilst the other is going up.
I think what the article was trying to say, it's not entirely clear, is that it was the actual film making / viewing equipment which was patented rather than them showing copyrighted material on it.
I look after a Telephone ACD and a few months ago it stopped working.
Us to Boss: Yes it looks like someone reconfigured all the trunks coming in to our cards Boss: What do you mean ? We can't afford these kind of outages, this is a disaster Us to Boss: Well we didn't reconfigure anything, have you any idea who else might want to have done this ? Boss: No, Oh hang on this isn't connected to the work I gave My Deputy to do yesterday would it ? Us: What work ? Boss: Well I needed to reverse the direction on all the circuits Us: Yes, that might explain things. Why didn't you ask us to reverse the direction on our cards as well ? Boss: I just thought it would work anyway Us: No, it doesn't Boss: Oh Us: So do you know what direction everything is going now ? Boss: No, I did write it down but I think some it was the opposite of what I wrote anyway Us: So you have no idea what's doing what now ? Boss: No.
I don't think hundreds of millions of folks do disagree, certainly an awful lot of people think it's a good film, like they would agree Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Monte Carlo Or Bust, The Pink Panther, Romancing The Stone, Crocodile Dundee are good films.
I suspect there are a lot less people who think Star Wars is the best film ever made, that it's plot and screenplay were eons ahead of their time, that the acting was amongst the best ever witnessed on the big screen, that the Star Wars 'universe' is reveloutionary and groundbreaking Science Fiction.
Sadly there are people, who I come into contact with far too frequently, who do think that and it is to those that I say; please, please go and read some proper fiction and watch some truly great films. There's a lot out there so stop wasting your time with Star Wars !
There's a big difference between the RIAA And SCO. The RIAA at least has a case, morally suspect as it might be whereas SCO actually has no case whatsoever.
The legal system might make the occasional stupid decision but in the main I think the Judge and Jury will easily be able see through SCO's nonsensical claims.
"Yeah Open Source stuff is a nice idea but you need big companies providing closed source software and paying you to earn a living don't you ?"
Personally I don't think that's necessarily the case and in fact closed source software might well inhibit my ability to make money from software engineering rather than promote it.
Most companies buying IT aren't really thinking to themselves "Hmmm, BigSoftwareProduct Ver 3.2 has just been released, I must buy it" they are more likely thinking "Hmmm, I'm sure this process could be done more efficiently - perhaps we can buy some IT to do it better ?". So there is a demand for soloutions not packaged software from big companies.
From my experience once companies have paid out there millions for BigSoftwareProduct Ver 3.2 which the salesman told them would do everything they wanted and integrate their existing processes flawlessly they quickly realise it is not in fact a perfect soloution to their problem and creates more work in related areas than they were anticipating.
At the moment if I wanted to set myself up as a consultant selling soloutions to the problems of business I would probably firstly have to pay out large sums of money for certification / training for various software companies offerings, if I wanted to sell a soloution to a business incorporating one of these software products the software company would most likely get a lot more of the money than I would.
What I would like from Open Source Software ( I don't know if we can achieve this - or if it's an achievable goal ) is a situation where I as a consultant can dip into a vast pool of tested, free Open Source software and find the components to create a perfect soloution for my client and put my modifications back out there in case anyone else finds themselves needing similar functionality.
I get paid, I add to the universal toolkit of open source software and my customer is happy. Is that a dream or could it be a reality ?
Star Wars isn't an 'amazing' film, it's a nice little movie to maybe watch on a Sunday afternoon when there's nothing better to do ( although I'd prefer Indiana Jones if I had a choice ).
There is nothing amazing about it, the dialouge is laughable, the plot is sketchy and weak, the acting is comical, the only amazing thing about it is that so many people are willing to fight to the death defending the fallacy that it was the greatest film ever made and every film since owes almost it's entire existance to it.
A large part of my amusement over the last few years has been watching the effects of cruel reality shattering the dreams and pomposity of my Star Wars obsessed friends as each film is proved unimaginably worse than the one preceeding it.
In principal I agree this would be a soloution but in practice I just don't think it's the best way of doing things or all that practical.
First of all you would have to Microsoft to talk to all these other manufacturers of Browsers, Media Players etc and they'd have to liase with each other in order to get everything in each release which I can see being a difficult process.
Secondly where would you draw the line at the programs which should also be included in Windows ? It would be practically impossible to include an infinite number of browsers, media players in each release and inevietably choices would have to be made about which ones to include and which to exclude.
The problem with those choices is that are not being made by 'the market' but by Microsoft or possibly a Judge of some kind.
So I think it is far better for Windows to sell their OS seperatley to companies like Time or Dell and also offer to sell them Media Player, IE etc. Time or Dell can then decide whether they wish to include Microsofts offerings on their new computers or offerings from other companies.
The choice in this case is being made by the market on the basis of the cost and quality of all the competing products. In an ideal world anyway.
A Web Browser is not a part of an operating system, it's an application which allows you to browse the web. A Media Player is not a part of an operating system either since it's an application which lets you listen to or watch media.
The problem here is that Microsoft will not let you buy their Operating System without also buying there Media Player which means that any other company trying to sell a media player cannot compete with them.
No one is suggesting that these things should not be included in the package which people buy in the shops, for example in most PC shops you can choose what size hard drive you want, whether you want a Web Cam included in the package, these are not automatically included on every PC whether you want it or not yet suppliers will not supply you a PC without a hard drive and they won't supply you with a PC without a Web Browser either - unless you request for it to be removed and get a reduction in the price.
Except in this case Kitty goes head first into a high speed spinning mechanism similar to that used to create the "mechanically seperated chicken pieces" you can buy in KFC.
Slashdot Mirror
"No OEM in their right mind would leave off WMP."
That may well be the case now that WMP has achieved such a huge market pentration and so much media is released in WMP format, but you have to remember that this is a situation which has been brought about by illegal practices on the part of Microsoft.
"This is yet another case of governments thinking that they know what they are doing in the tech sector, but are plainly, completely, clueless."
So the soloution is...
What exactly ? Now that the EU has judged that the MS behaviour is against the trading rules of EU they cannot just turn a blind eye and say
"OK MS, you're a big company and this is a tricky problem so why don't you just carry on exactly as you like and then maybe in 5 years time the situation will be much more complicated and harder to fix, but for now we'll just ignore it."
They have to take action and the action they seem to proposing seems like a sensible soloution to me.
That's got nothing to do with the matter in hand here.
Whilst I may not agree with, or like the products marketed by Real I would defend their right to develop and market these products with my life.
Just a small point but the EU in fact consists of more than one country and I suspect anyone in Microsoft advocating such a policy would not be in Microsoft for very long.
Well I guess the Courts and, by definition, the Law is wrong on this one then. Perhaps you could provide some training to all these misguided Judges and Lawyers, maybe let them see some of your definitions and we could have this whole debacle sorted out in a jiffy.
Hmm yeah, that's a good definition of freedom isn't is
"If you don't like Windows you pre packaged with WMP you can always choose another O/S"
"If you don't like living under the current regime you are perfectly free to live under it no longer. We will even help kill you."
What people would like is the ability, or freedom, to see the cost of WMP and if they think they can get by with a cheaper alternative to not buy WMP and buy the alternative instead.
But you're right it's not a freedom issue, it's about Microsoft exploiting it's monopoly position to influence other markets. It's the job of the government to regulate this kind of behaviour and it's good that the EU is taking it's regulatory obligations seriously.
"Each has there own use, but this has got to be the most retarded lawsuit i've EVER heard of."
I think you've totally missed the point of this. Certainly I'm not arguing that basic sound support shouldn't be a part of an Operaring System but Media Player goes far beyond that, it is a fully featured Application.
Other companies would like to sell these kind of applications to people and make money out of it however with MS giving it away for nothing to 90% of computer users they don't have hope of selling anything.
You cannot buy Windows without Media Player, so you do not have the opportunity to compare it's price and value against other similar products.
From Microsofts point of view the current situation is very nice for them; Media Player is installed on 90% of computer users PC's, Media Player uses it's own proprietry formats, downloading music is becoming big business - suppliers are very tempted to use Media Player formats because of it's market penetration, Microsoft can call the shots.
From everyone else's point of view this is clearly a case of Microsoft using it's monopoly in the O/S system market to influence and gain control of other areas.
" So can't OEM people install real, etc before selling at the moment? Guess not."
Of course they can do but why would they ? They can't buy a cheaper version of Windows without a media player so there's no point in them shopping around for a cheaper alternative.
Stripping out Media Player from Windows will allow the OEM's to judge Media Player vs it's rivals on a fair footing, e.g. knowing the cost of each application.
In theory anyway, I hope there is some provision that the two versions of windows will need to maintain some kind of sensible price differentiation.
I wondered why I wasn't getting so much spam yesterday.
You're joking that's only around 10,000 isn't it ? ( or $19,000 - exchange rates are great for cheap holidays ;-) )
A lot of that maybe true but what do you suggest is done about it ?
We all now live and work in a global economy, corporations have no nationality and will inevitably exploit the differences in the cost of living and standard wages globally in order to increase their profits.
You mention the problems of moving 'American' jobs to India but fail to realise that they not 'American jobs' as in jobs belonging to Americans but 'American jobs' as in jobs being performed by Americans. Companies that can recruit from a global workforce view you as a 'resource' and don't care if you are American, Indian or Chinese.
So yes outsourcing may well not be a good thing for you, or me either but the companies don't really care about you, me or America.
In the long run of course there is the view that outsourcing is a good thing since it will begin to even up the difference in wealth and standard of living across the globe, the trouble is that like a see saw this means one side will be going down whilst the other is going up.
I think what the article was trying to say, it's not entirely clear, is that it was the actual film making / viewing equipment which was patented rather than them showing copyrighted material on it.
yeah, maybe
Quite an impressive user though if he can set up an entire network on a single box.
I think you'll find that any Newbie who installs Debian or Slack can no longer be considered as a Newbie
I look after a Telephone ACD and a few months ago it stopped working.
Us to Boss: Yes it looks like someone reconfigured all the trunks coming in to our cards
Boss: What do you mean ? We can't afford these kind of outages, this is a disaster
Us to Boss: Well we didn't reconfigure anything, have you any idea who else might want to have done this ?
Boss: No, Oh hang on this isn't connected to the work I gave My Deputy to do yesterday would it ?
Us: What work ?
Boss: Well I needed to reverse the direction on all the circuits
Us: Yes, that might explain things. Why didn't you ask us to reverse the direction on our cards as well ?
Boss: I just thought it would work anyway
Us: No, it doesn't
Boss: Oh
Us: So do you know what direction everything is going now ?
Boss: No, I did write it down but I think some it was the opposite of what I wrote anyway
Us: So you have no idea what's doing what now ?
Boss: No.
I don't think hundreds of millions of folks do disagree, certainly an awful lot of people think it's a good film, like they would agree Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Monte Carlo Or Bust, The Pink Panther, Romancing The Stone, Crocodile Dundee are good films.
I suspect there are a lot less people who think Star Wars is the best film ever made, that it's plot and screenplay were eons ahead of their time, that the acting was amongst the best ever witnessed on the big screen, that the Star Wars 'universe' is reveloutionary and groundbreaking Science Fiction.
Sadly there are people, who I come into contact with far too frequently, who do think that and it is to those that I say; please, please go and read some proper fiction and watch some truly great films. There's a lot out there so stop wasting your time with Star Wars !
There's a big difference between the RIAA And SCO. The RIAA at least has a case, morally suspect as it might be whereas SCO actually has no case whatsoever.
The legal system might make the occasional stupid decision but in the main I think the Judge and Jury will easily be able see through SCO's nonsensical claims.
The main thrust of that letter seems to be:
"Yeah Open Source stuff is a nice idea but you need big companies providing closed source software and paying you to earn a living don't you ?"
Personally I don't think that's necessarily the case and in fact closed source software might well inhibit my ability to make money from software engineering rather than promote it.
Most companies buying IT aren't really thinking to themselves "Hmmm, BigSoftwareProduct Ver 3.2 has just been released, I must buy it" they are more likely thinking "Hmmm, I'm sure this process could be done more efficiently - perhaps we can buy some IT to do it better ?". So there is a demand for soloutions not packaged software from big companies.
From my experience once companies have paid out there millions for BigSoftwareProduct Ver 3.2 which the salesman told them would do everything they wanted and integrate their existing processes flawlessly they quickly realise it is not in fact a perfect soloution to their problem and creates more work in related areas than they were anticipating.
At the moment if I wanted to set myself up as a consultant selling soloutions to the problems of business I would probably firstly have to pay out large sums of money for certification / training for various software companies offerings, if I wanted to sell a soloution to a business incorporating one of these software products the software company would most likely get a lot more of the money than I would.
What I would like from Open Source Software ( I don't know if we can achieve this - or if it's an achievable goal ) is a situation where I as a consultant can dip into a vast pool of tested, free Open Source software and find the components to create a perfect soloution for my client and put my modifications back out there in case anyone else finds themselves needing similar functionality.
I get paid, I add to the universal toolkit of open source software and my customer is happy. Is that a dream or could it be a reality ?
Star Wars isn't an 'amazing' film, it's a nice little movie to maybe watch on a Sunday afternoon when there's nothing better to do ( although I'd prefer Indiana Jones if I had a choice ).
There is nothing amazing about it, the dialouge is laughable, the plot is sketchy and weak, the acting is comical, the only amazing thing about it is that so many people are willing to fight to the death defending the fallacy that it was the greatest film ever made and every film since owes almost it's entire existance to it.
A large part of my amusement over the last few years has been watching the effects of cruel reality shattering the dreams and pomposity of my Star Wars obsessed friends as each film is proved unimaginably worse than the one preceeding it.
Which effects were those ? Did I miss the Tie Fighters scenes in LOTR or something ?
In principal I agree this would be a soloution but in practice I just don't think it's the best way of doing things or all that practical.
First of all you would have to Microsoft to talk to all these other manufacturers of Browsers, Media Players etc and they'd have to liase with each other in order to get everything in each release which I can see being a difficult process.
Secondly where would you draw the line at the programs which should also be included in Windows ? It would be practically impossible to include an infinite number of browsers, media players in each release and inevietably choices would have to be made about which ones to include and which to exclude.
The problem with those choices is that are not being made by 'the market' but by Microsoft or possibly a Judge of some kind.
So I think it is far better for Windows to sell their OS seperatley to companies like Time or Dell and also offer to sell them Media Player, IE etc. Time or Dell can then decide whether they wish to include Microsofts offerings on their new computers or offerings from other companies.
The choice in this case is being made by the market on the basis of the cost and quality of all the competing products. In an ideal world anyway.
A Web Browser is not a part of an operating system, it's an application which allows you to browse the web. A Media Player is not a part of an operating system either since it's an application which lets you listen to or watch media.
The problem here is that Microsoft will not let you buy their Operating System without also buying there Media Player which means that any other company trying to sell a media player cannot compete with them.
No one is suggesting that these things should not be included in the package which people buy in the shops, for example in most PC shops you can choose what size hard drive you want, whether you want a Web Cam included in the package, these are not automatically included on every PC whether you want it or not yet suppliers will not supply you a PC without a hard drive and they won't supply you with a PC without a Web Browser either - unless you request for it to be removed and get a reduction in the price.
No, Microsoft have designed a number of products, Windows OS and Windows Media Player and will not allow you to buy them seperatetly.
If consumers want to buy one without the other they can't do it and that limits their choices.
Except in this case Kitty goes head first into a high speed spinning mechanism similar to that used to create the "mechanically seperated chicken pieces" you can buy in KFC.
It would definatley have been "you're" rather than "your" but as for the rest, who cares ?