I call shenanigans (or bad reporting) on this story. There were no 1TB hard drives 9 years ago (except maybe in HD manufacturers labs). You might have had an external array, but not a drive. I don't remember for sure, but I'd say a single hard drive was max ~250GB in 2000?
Turn the switch from SUCK to BLOW. You want positive pressure inside the cleanroom. That way no random things can get in. This is assuming that you can filter the air coming in from the blower in some effective (HEPAish) way.
Note that if you are working with an aerosolized biological agent then you do want the chamber to have negative pressure (vacuum on suck), that way no bugs will escape as you put the white powder in the envelope. Just make sure that the suction area has some kind of disinfectant method.
Still no guarantees on longevity of the drive though, there are a lot of factors such as outgassing from the window material interfering with the heads, the nifty pressure/humidity vent/regulator that is normally in the lid, vibration differences.......
I'd love to find out some deeper detail on what you tested/found on those 2.5" SATA drives. I can't figure out a good way to pass through an email address without attracting botspam, so if you use my user name here coupled with a very popular, happy, 100MB storage freemail provider who just copyrighted the 25th letter of the alphabet it will get to me and I can reply from my work address.
I'm interested in how short and random your seeks were, and if you were able to get an idea on what the.7% degradation was due to. Was the degradation a temporary thing that went away if you reformatted, or was it a permanent failure? Was there any indication in the SMART data that this was going on, anything you could use to predict a failure?
Thanks in advance for any information you can share.
Brian (BTM1001)
If we are dealing with a disease that is so communicable that it can be spread in the average flight/ferry/cruise ride, then why does the CDC need to keep that personal information for "only" a year instead of their normal 10 years? If they aren't on top of it within ~30 days at most, we are fracked.
I took a tour of InPhase recently, so I do know about this product in general (definitely not an expert though). There is not really any "high speed parts". The disk doesn't spin much at all. It rotates *very* slightly to reach a new "book", or area on the platter. The beams do their interference burn of the data and then there is a very slight rotation to the new book. Hard part is holding the disk and the beams steady while burning.
One in 12 stops during the trial of the scheme produced an arrest and Mr Ainsworth described the results as "surprisingly good".
I am not familiar with typical police actions, but what would the rate of arrests be on a random search of vehicles? 1 in 12 does not sound very accurate to me.
I'd say something like "Thank goodness I live in the US where there are protections against unreasonable search". Unfortunately, there isn't anymore, Thanks Rummie for PATRIOT I and II - Gotta love it when we send our friends and family off to fight and die in order to protect the American Freedoms, and when they come home, those freedoms do not exist.
"WOW, a subject where I seem to be the first "expert" to post."
I think this is a bit more monumental than you think. This is the first time an expert has commented on ANY/. article!
OPEC is a single country? Since when? "Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries" would tent to imply more than one country. Yes it is true that there are a few other producers of petroleum out there (can you say ANWAR?) but they are much smaller. OPEC does engage in what would be considered illegal price fixing in any other market. The reason it is not charged with such is that for once someone has the upper hand on the US.
Well, some of us went onto college chemistry. a molecule is simply a group of more than one atom that are bonded together. Like say the standard Oxygen in the atmosphere - it is a molocule, O2 - 2 atoms of Oxygen linked.
Not sure if Tungon is the same naturally.
Thanks for pointing out that individuals need to work on building their own savings account to draw on in case of emergencies. I personally classify government money as a bonus, an extra. I don't count on it, or use it to make my plans. This applies to retirement - I'm 27 now, there's no hope for Social Security for me. Unemployment? No way it will meet my fixed expenses (mortgage). That's why when I recently bought my first house, every cent did not go to the down payment. I kept back about 10 months of mortgage payments, so that if something were to happen I could survive. Unfortunately, the job market these days in Colorado indicates that that 10 months might not be enough.
Time for me to go on the CostCo diet - there's a 50 lb bag of rice for 12 dollars, and a 40 lb bag od beans for 8. That should get me through 2-3 months. Hey, millions of peasants cant be wrong!
The reason that the water stream "bends" closer to the charged spoon is because of the shape of a water molecule (H2O). The Oxygen ion has a negative charge(-2), and the Hydrogen molecule has a positive charge (+1). The 2 electrons that give the negative charge "belong" to the O ion, but it lends them to the H+ to balance out. While the electron spends most of the time around the O-H area, it does float in other areas around the Oxygen ion. Since the union of these ions to create H2O forms almost a triangle shape, with the H ions less than 180 degrees apart on the Oxygen ion, you wind up with a molecule with a slight dipole property.
This is not to say that the product does not work, just that the attraction of the water depends on the charge the water already contains. Unless the particles in the air can become charged, or are charged by default, setting up a magnet won't attract it.
I don't know what you consider low cost, but considering your talk of moving from DAT to DLT, it must be pretty bottom of the barrel. DLT is not that far from DAT on the tape life cycle, although Benchmark Technologies (Recently bought by Quantum) does have some newer hardware for it.
Since it sounds like you can't make the jump to a newer tape technology (LTO, SAIT, SDLT) this might be a place where optical - DVD might work. Still say bite the bullet and but a newer tape technology though.
300 GB AIT 3 is compressed. 4.7 GB DVD is uncompresse. Uncompressed AIT 3 is 100 GB. New tape technologies push teh tape size uncompressed to 200GB(Now) and even 500 GB(shortly)
Just a disclaimer to start things off - I am in the tape library business, so take what I say with a grain of salt. OTOH, I am a technical person, so it isn't going to be a polished marketing twist either.
The article mentions one major drawback, the inability to do offsite storage. You could work something out with offsite mirroring, but bandwidth costs at 70TB would get excessive. Not to mention needing the same hardware setup on the other end.
The other major advantage that tape has over disk is the archive ability. Once you write a tape, that data is static. I can have it sit in a slot in the library for a long time. Since this system is only designed for 5 years, archive is not a big deal, but a lot of industries it is huge. The ability to alter data on a disk drive seamlessly is a lot easier than to do on a tape.
The person who mentioned the shock/vibe values for a disk drive VS a tape cartridge: #1 I have dropped PLENTY of cartridges, and have only has one chip a corner. That chip did not affect my ability to use the tape further. Additionally, if the housing is destroyed, the process to spool off the tape, and splice it onto a different tape is not that difficult. I would not loose the data permanently. If there is a major mechanical failure inside a disk drive, getting the data off the platters is a lot harder..53 failure rate is good (I'm not sure what the published rates for new tape drive technology is) but the rate 5 years down the line is going to be much higher in my opinion.
I would be interested in seeing numbers for throughput of the system, power consumption, backup window lengths, average restore time. Some of these might stack up favorably to tape, others might not.
The comment on moving to optical as a backup medium - maybe someday, but for now the space needed/time to backup to optical does nto compare well with tape. A DVD of 4.5 GB VS a tape of 100GB (Currently available, yes I know blue lasers will improve that)
As for a robot failure, worst-case scenario, you put the tape in the drive manually. Realistically, at least at our company, we have solved this problem for our customers by providing the ability to easily replace components. This can happen either with a field engineer, or even the customer themselves. Generally all you need is a Phillips screwdriver, 20 minutes max, and the ability to follow instructions.
Again, I'm not in the sales department, so I can't quote costs, but a 435K total cost for 70TB is not that cheap. With tape systems, a lot of the cost depends on how fast the backups need to occur in. I could build out a 70 TB system with 1 drive, a SCSI connection and a huge wall of tapes relatively cheaply. As you add more drives, use fibre or gigabit Ethernet interfaces, etc costs go up, but access times go down. Cost can also be brought down by not going with the 500 lb gorilla of the field - StorageTek.
Yes disk is growing, but generally it does not replace tape, it only pushes it back a layer. This won't change for a while.
If she is not innudated with spam, does that mean she will have time to reply to my request for clarification on the legal protections of parody? Or on the violation of AmGreet's mission statement to act in a moral and ethical manner?
Not sure what it becomes when you comment on a comment, but I thought it was sort of neat that Wil Wheaton Read the poem and responded, being a subject of the poem and all. I also think Wil would take the purple pimple no problem.
Hey, that was really cool.
. . . and I'm not just saying that because I'm in it.;)
In today's mega merger era, it seems low, but if you read the article it turns out to be even a better deal than D&M had offered SB recently. They were willing to buy it for 40 mil plus 5 in assumed debt a few months ago.
Hopefully this isn't a sign of massive global deflation - I need my job!/me knocks on wood damn it's a plastic cubicle!
Reading the press release about the end of varsity football at MTU, I came to realize that it would be a good thing. Obviously the persons responsible for the release need a bit more work on their grammar (or proofreading):
Yeo was referring to the fact that when the current football scholarships become available, they will be remain in the athletic department and be re-allocated to improve the remaining programs.
What exactly does "be remain" mean?
Matches up pretty well with the football players who I remember from the Univ. of Colorado./Me crosses fingers and hopes OWN proofreading effort was sufficient
The following from the bottom of the article: RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 90% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States.
Sounds somewhat monopolistic to me. How about getting the government to file an anti-trust case against the RIAA. It would be difficult to be an artist and not support the RIAA in some way monetarily.
Speaking of 10%...
If you do some math with a 10% tax rate (generally higher than what would actually be paid), the revenue to the software companies would be 6,336,000,000,000.00 dollars US. 6.3 TRILLION.
TO put that in perspective, the GDP of the entire US in 2001 was $10.082 trillion.
(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Econ).
Who really benifits from this push?
Slashdot Mirror
I call shenanigans (or bad reporting) on this story. There were no 1TB hard drives 9 years ago (except maybe in HD manufacturers labs). You might have had an external array, but not a drive. I don't remember for sure, but I'd say a single hard drive was max ~250GB in 2000?
Are you sure it is not the elevation change?
Turn the switch from SUCK to BLOW. You want positive pressure inside the cleanroom. That way no random things can get in. This is assuming that you can filter the air coming in from the blower in some effective (HEPAish) way. Note that if you are working with an aerosolized biological agent then you do want the chamber to have negative pressure (vacuum on suck), that way no bugs will escape as you put the white powder in the envelope. Just make sure that the suction area has some kind of disinfectant method. Still no guarantees on longevity of the drive though, there are a lot of factors such as outgassing from the window material interfering with the heads, the nifty pressure/humidity vent/regulator that is normally in the lid, vibration differences.......
I'd love to find out some deeper detail on what you tested/found on those 2.5" SATA drives. I can't figure out a good way to pass through an email address without attracting botspam, so if you use my user name here coupled with a very popular, happy, 100MB storage freemail provider who just copyrighted the 25th letter of the alphabet it will get to me and I can reply from my work address. I'm interested in how short and random your seeks were, and if you were able to get an idea on what the .7% degradation was due to. Was the degradation a temporary thing that went away if you reformatted, or was it a permanent failure? Was there any indication in the SMART data that this was going on, anything you could use to predict a failure?
Thanks in advance for any information you can share.
Brian (BTM1001)
If we are dealing with a disease that is so communicable that it can be spread in the average flight/ferry/cruise ride, then why does the CDC need to keep that personal information for "only" a year instead of their normal 10 years? If they aren't on top of it within ~30 days at most, we are fracked.
I took a tour of InPhase recently, so I do know about this product in general (definitely not an expert though). There is not really any "high speed parts". The disk doesn't spin much at all. It rotates *very* slightly to reach a new "book", or area on the platter. The beams do their interference burn of the data and then there is a very slight rotation to the new book. Hard part is holding the disk and the beams steady while burning.
A quote from the article:
One in 12 stops during the trial of the scheme produced an arrest and Mr Ainsworth described the results as "surprisingly good".
I am not familiar with typical police actions, but what would the rate of arrests be on a random search of vehicles? 1 in 12 does not sound very accurate to me.
I'd say something like "Thank goodness I live in the US where there are protections against unreasonable search". Unfortunately, there isn't anymore, Thanks Rummie for PATRIOT I and II - Gotta love it when we send our friends and family off to fight and die in order to protect the American Freedoms, and when they come home, those freedoms do not exist.
Will a wooden shack in the mountains do? We have a frozen corpse festival nearby:
http://www.frozendeadguy.com/fdg/saga.htm
The lower oxygen content at 1 mile above sea level is definitely starting to affect a few people's higher brain function.
"WOW, a subject where I seem to be the first "expert" to post." /. article!
I think this is a bit more monumental than you think. This is the first time an expert has commented on ANY
OPEC is a single country? Since when? "Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries" would tent to imply more than one country. Yes it is true that there are a few other producers of petroleum out there (can you say ANWAR?) but they are much smaller. OPEC does engage in what would be considered illegal price fixing in any other market. The reason it is not charged with such is that for once someone has the upper hand on the US.
Well, some of us went onto college chemistry. a molecule is simply a group of more than one atom that are bonded together. Like say the standard Oxygen in the atmosphere - it is a molocule, O2 - 2 atoms of Oxygen linked. Not sure if Tungon is the same naturally.
Thanks for pointing out that individuals need to work on building their own savings account to draw on in case of emergencies. I personally classify government money as a bonus, an extra. I don't count on it, or use it to make my plans. This applies to retirement - I'm 27 now, there's no hope for Social Security for me. Unemployment? No way it will meet my fixed expenses (mortgage). That's why when I recently bought my first house, every cent did not go to the down payment. I kept back about 10 months of mortgage payments, so that if something were to happen I could survive. Unfortunately, the job market these days in Colorado indicates that that 10 months might not be enough. Time for me to go on the CostCo diet - there's a 50 lb bag of rice for 12 dollars, and a 40 lb bag od beans for 8. That should get me through 2-3 months. Hey, millions of peasants cant be wrong!
The reason that the water stream "bends" closer to the charged spoon is because of the shape of a water molecule (H2O). The Oxygen ion has a negative charge(-2), and the Hydrogen molecule has a positive charge (+1). The 2 electrons that give the negative charge "belong" to the O ion, but it lends them to the H+ to balance out. While the electron spends most of the time around the O-H area, it does float in other areas around the Oxygen ion. Since the union of these ions to create H2O forms almost a triangle shape, with the H ions less than 180 degrees apart on the Oxygen ion, you wind up with a molecule with a slight dipole property. This is not to say that the product does not work, just that the attraction of the water depends on the charge the water already contains. Unless the particles in the air can become charged, or are charged by default, setting up a magnet won't attract it.
I don't know what you consider low cost, but considering your talk of moving from DAT to DLT, it must be pretty bottom of the barrel. DLT is not that far from DAT on the tape life cycle, although Benchmark Technologies (Recently bought by Quantum) does have some newer hardware for it. Since it sounds like you can't make the jump to a newer tape technology (LTO, SAIT, SDLT) this might be a place where optical - DVD might work. Still say bite the bullet and but a newer tape technology though.
300 GB AIT 3 is compressed. 4.7 GB DVD is uncompresse. Uncompressed AIT 3 is 100 GB. New tape technologies push teh tape size uncompressed to 200GB(Now) and even 500 GB(shortly)
Just a disclaimer to start things off - I am in the tape library business, so take what I say with a grain of salt. OTOH, I am a technical person, so it isn't going to be a polished marketing twist either.
.53 failure rate is good (I'm not sure what the published rates for new tape drive technology is) but the rate 5 years down the line is going to be much higher in my opinion.
The article mentions one major drawback, the inability to do offsite storage. You could work something out with offsite mirroring, but bandwidth costs at 70TB would get excessive. Not to mention needing the same hardware setup on the other end.
The other major advantage that tape has over disk is the archive ability. Once you write a tape, that data is static. I can have it sit in a slot in the library for a long time. Since this system is only designed for 5 years, archive is not a big deal, but a lot of industries it is huge. The ability to alter data on a disk drive seamlessly is a lot easier than to do on a tape.
The person who mentioned the shock/vibe values for a disk drive VS a tape cartridge: #1 I have dropped PLENTY of cartridges, and have only has one chip a corner. That chip did not affect my ability to use the tape further. Additionally, if the housing is destroyed, the process to spool off the tape, and splice it onto a different tape is not that difficult. I would not loose the data permanently. If there is a major mechanical failure inside a disk drive, getting the data off the platters is a lot harder.
I would be interested in seeing numbers for throughput of the system, power consumption, backup window lengths, average restore time. Some of these might stack up favorably to tape, others might not.
The comment on moving to optical as a backup medium - maybe someday, but for now the space needed/time to backup to optical does nto compare well with tape. A DVD of 4.5 GB VS a tape of 100GB (Currently available, yes I know blue lasers will improve that)
As for a robot failure, worst-case scenario, you put the tape in the drive manually. Realistically, at least at our company, we have solved this problem for our customers by providing the ability to easily replace components. This can happen either with a field engineer, or even the customer themselves. Generally all you need is a Phillips screwdriver, 20 minutes max, and the ability to follow instructions.
Again, I'm not in the sales department, so I can't quote costs, but a 435K total cost for 70TB is not that cheap. With tape systems, a lot of the cost depends on how fast the backups need to occur in. I could build out a 70 TB system with 1 drive, a SCSI connection and a huge wall of tapes relatively cheaply. As you add more drives, use fibre or gigabit Ethernet interfaces, etc costs go up, but access times go down. Cost can also be brought down by not going with the 500 lb gorilla of the field - StorageTek.
Yes disk is growing, but generally it does not replace tape, it only pushes it back a layer. This won't change for a while.
If she is not innudated with spam, does that mean she will have time to reply to my request for clarification on the legal protections of parody? Or on the violation of AmGreet's mission statement to act in a moral and ethical manner?
Not sure what it becomes when you comment on a comment, but I thought it was sort of neat that Wil Wheaton Read the poem and responded, being a subject of the poem and all. I also think Wil would take the purple pimple no problem.
;)
Hey, that was really cool.
. . . and I'm not just saying that because I'm in it.
Posted by: wil on April 20, 2003 08:59 PM
So did a cocaine using alcoholic (not realy sure waht Junior was considered as a kid....)
In today's mega merger era, it seems low, but if you read the article it turns out to be even a better deal than D&M had offered SB recently. They were willing to buy it for 40 mil plus 5 in assumed debt a few months ago.
/me knocks on wood
Hopefully this isn't a sign of massive global deflation - I need my job!
damn it's a plastic cubicle!
Reading the press release about the end of varsity football at MTU, I came to realize that it would be a good thing. Obviously the persons responsible for the release need a bit more work on their grammar (or proofreading):
/Me crosses fingers and hopes OWN proofreading effort was sufficient
Yeo was referring to the fact that when the current football scholarships become available, they will be remain in the athletic department and be re-allocated to improve the remaining programs.
What exactly does "be remain" mean?
Matches up pretty well with the football players who I remember from the Univ. of Colorado.
Actually, I never once saw someone on any Federation vessel use a restroom. Therefore, there would be no continous source of fuel for the "wessel".
The following from the bottom of the article:
RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 90% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States.
Sounds somewhat monopolistic to me. How about getting the government to file an anti-trust case against the RIAA. It would be difficult to be an artist and not support the RIAA in some way monetarily.
Speaking of 10%... If you do some math with a 10% tax rate (generally higher than what would actually be paid), the revenue to the software companies would be 6,336,000,000,000.00 dollars US. 6.3 TRILLION. TO put that in perspective, the GDP of the entire US in 2001 was $10.082 trillion. (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /us.html#Econ).
Who really benifits from this push?