This is probably an underhanded idea, and a bad one at that, but suppose the RIAA talk people like Musicmatch into adding an extra little bit of code to their ripper for their trial version players. Whenever a CD was ripped using MusicMatch, a unique hash of the IP address (if static), general System ID and other identifing characteristics would be added somewhere within the file. Think about something like this. Let the RIAA download all the music they want for a few days or weeks, before some hacker notices. Then they have a list of who to prosecute for originally creating the file.
The saddest part of all of this - all of the fines you suggested are lighter than the ones suggested by our beloved Howard Berman as reported in this articleand this earlier discussion.
Well, where I live, upgrading Linux is free
Upgrading Windows involves either
a) Trip to Wal-mart for expensive OS
b) 'Discovering' an extra copy of the newest OS that happens to be laying around in my friends living room.
Most companies I know of wouldn't choose b.
Most companies don't have $100 - $200 to spend per PC and still be able to afford support for when something goes wrong.
I don't think they mind upgrading as much as they mind draining their entire budget upgrading.
Updating Linux kernel - Free
Linux licencing fee - Free
Cost to modify kernel - Free
Not having to pay unreal licencing fees and buy software every few years - Priceless
With Windows, even without support, I have to buy every new version of the OS to stay patched
With Linux, even without support, I can download any new updates for free
I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm just sharing my personal opinion. I could be wrong. I am, for the most part, human. Thanks.
Did Parent actually read any of the articles? I believe in Free-X's statement said...
/* Beginning of quote */
Since our attempts to contact Microsoft have become public knowledge our team has been accused of attempting to extort or blackmail Microsoft, this is not true as we have made every attempt possible to make contact with Microsoft to offer the following:
- A complete summary of all hacking technologies (many of these technologies have not been released).
- Source Codes.
- All attacks which have been developed but not yet released.
- To sign a Non-disclosure Agreement regarding our discoveries.
- Further research on exploits, which would be exclusive to Microsoft.
- Full names of all hackers involved upon agreement of legal protection from Microsoft.
- Assistance in the development of future security for the XBox by working with Microsoft.
For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following:
- Complete access to all documentation (chipsets, video etc.) to assist in developing a better Linux for the XBox.
- A signed Linux loader.
- Protection from Microsoft or support if any organisation/government attempted to prosecute members of our team.
- Refunding of the cost occured during the agreement period.
/* End of Quote */
I think the threat went more like You listen to us tell you about the security vulerability that would probably tick off content creators or we'll tell everyone else in hopes to get you to fix the code.
Do you get mad when someone discovers a flaw in Internet Explorer? Oh, but this is different, they're blackmailing Microsoft...
Once again quoting - "For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following:... A signed Linux loader.
From Parent - Frankly, I don't see how Free-X would have felt that they were approaching MS in a reasonable way. They offered to give microsoft all the code and to sign a non-disclosure agreement. They requested in exchange a linux boot loader. They asked. They didn't say "Give us what we want that's not in your own best interests or we'll tell people how to break your machine and potentially lose more money by having people buy XBOXes for uses other than buying the games that make them money." The bootloader was optional. They would give Microsoft the code either way. Microsoft wouldn't even listen. So what part was unreasonable? Disclosing the code, because Microsoft wouldn't listen? People do that all the time. Asking for something in exchange for work? Oh yeah, that unreasonable. Especially when you relize they were just asking.
And in other news Microsoft chairman Bill Gates announced at a press conference 20 minutes into the future that the Microsoft "Smart Watch" will also incorperate DRM. As briefly covered by his Billness, the Smart Watch will scan the retina of everyone who attempts to read the time. Anyone whose retina pattern is not in watch memory will have 2,000,000 volts sent through their bodies.
On a comment regarding this issue, Mr. Gates assured us "It is vital to the health of the entire global industry that we guard consumer privacy and trade secrets. Anyone passing on the street could pick up an enormous ammount of information from someone who is wearing a watch that isn't secure."
Dark Lord Bill further went on to say "... It is imperative that we guard all avenues from this impending danger... of someone stealing the 'time of day'. Terrorrist use the time of day constantly... (futher ramblings too lengthy to be posted here)"
We recieved a brief demonstration, when a CNN corrospondent accidently glanced toward the watch worn by Mr. Gates. Within a brief second, the corrospondent burst into flames, and unfortunatly died.
In other news Mr. Bill Gates is sueing the family of a man who tried to steal the "time of day"...
No. The 007 Hack only works if you own the 007 Game. Would you like for me to go over that again slower? The dashboard comes preinstalled on every single Xbox, regardless of what games you own. The way they say it. I basically have everything I need, without buying/borrowing/renting anything at all.
Oh, and this might not be right, but listen anyway. Wouldn't Microsoft win both ways if it was to sell its own distro? Really, don't flame me yet. Forget a boot loader, give an entire linux distro with programs like gaim and the gimp. Use something like Redhat or Mandrake. Maybe engineer their own little version. Release the source code. The linux code is all they would have to release. They could keep the bootloader code and any program code, as long as it wasn't GPL'd (basically any software they design other than a modified kernel). Key the disc. Only that unaltered distro would be able to run on linux. Just to mess with out heads, they could make their linux code only run linux programs that they key. Put it in a nice little rectangle box and sell it at Best Buy for $39.99. Add a MSN client (like AMSN), but no yahoo or aim or icq client. Technically they could be going with the Austrailian's deal, would be working their way into the *nix community and would be making a few bucks on an already free distro. And on top of that, if the Austrailians went ahead and published their findings, Microsoft could get them for breach of contract.
And (off the subject) personally, I'm a Bill Gates fan. I believe that we would see far less problems come from Microsoft if the lawyers weren't the ones making all the choices.
Oh, on one last note, if Microsoft did key a linux disc for the Xbox, I believe that technically, that would make Microsoft the winner of the $100,000 prize for doing so. That might help repay some of the costs right there!
Kinda funny though, they would use a vulerability in their OS to make a case for DRM. That kinda flies in the face of their "Trusted Computing Platform".
They even can't keep their gaming console secure. And all of the hardware configurations are exactly identical. And they wrote the dashboard.
They were in charge of every aspect of production - hardware, software, etc.... There are no wierd variables to worry about (What if their chipset is made by blahblahblah and their processor is running at blahblahblah).
Not programming a secure OS, forgivable, but not programming a secure gaming console? Whatever.
That would be a good example, if I didn't already own the X-Box. Let's revise your example to make it correct.
You just sold me your house, except you only gave me keys to go in some of the rooms of the house through only the front door. I just found out how to crack all the locks to let me into my own house. If you don't give me the key to my backdoor then I'll tell everyone else you've done this to how they can get into their own houses
You're saying like Microsoft still owns the X-Box. If they want to sell it at a lose, fine. Whose fault is it that they assume I want to buy enough games to make up for them selling the box too cheap?
No. Publisizing an exploit isn't illegal. If it is, sue Microsoft for putting up their knowledge base. No, using an exploit is what gets people in trouble. Circumventing some form of copy protection is what gets people in trouble. No, you know what, go check out Symantec or some other security site. It's brimming with info, because people need to know.
1) Release a boot loader, lose money on X-box, promote linux.
2) Don't release boot loader, be in the public's eye about not even securing a gaming system, lose more money because of xbox sales and stolen games, don't promote linux as much.
The rock and the hardplace. That's exactly where Bill is. Kinda feel sorrry for him.
And I plan to patent the idea of trading objects of value or services for other objects of value or services. Which is almost different than buying something with cash. Really.
Then I plan to licence my Idea to the world (putting pinky up to mouth) for one-milllllion dollars.
So somewhere off in the universe, someone is using 90% of my brain power so they can get a slightly better Frames Per Second in Quake III. Now I get it...
Let's think about this for just a second. The architect tells Neo, that there are somethings that he cannot possible understand, because he is still, for the majority, human. But, the reverse of that is also true. The architect cannot fully understand Neo, or his line of thought, for the same reason, that Neo is still partially human. The architect made the statement that it was impossible for Neo to save Trinity, yet he did. This was not something that the architect had forseen. All of his logic is based on probabilities. He had no true understanding of human emotion. He did not foresee Neo altering the Matrix enough for him to save Trinity. He was using the logic that it had never been done before, so the changes of it happening were 0. The matrix has never been destroyed before, so in the architects minds, the chances infinity to one of losing.
Yeah. I admit you're right. All of you. I'm really sorry for my ignorance. I really wasn't quite up to speed on my security info. What I meant (go ahead and flame me, I deserve it after that) is that *nix is... Forget it. I'm screwed. Please, Oh great one's, forgive your humble servent for his stupidity. I've just kinda annoyed at the lawyer's at M$ right now. I was wrong. My post was real flame-bait. You're right no OS is secure. I have not excuse. I was stupid. I'm going to go lock myself in my room now... oh wait... I'm already here... Well, I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge. (Oh and I do get info on all the latest bugs, via e-mail.)
Strength - Quality crafted with the ability to withstand abuse
or
Strength - Having a pack of ravinous lawyers trailing anyone else in the so called open market making a product that resembles and or operates anything like Windows?
Name something all of these have in common. Right! They all are virus's that microsoft could have prevented had they actually put any thought into the code for their os.
People don't even need the code for Windows to screw it over! Anyone can look for bugs in Linux. They find them. They patch them. Linux is where it's at.
On a closing note, do you real want an OS that locks you into MS's products? U.S. tries to split M$. M$ wins. U.S. buys os from M$. Kinda makes ya wonder about how that would affect the DOJ's bias, as opposed to free linux, rely on anyone else?
As opposed to having one corporation having the entire source code for choice operating system of the gov? Linux is secure. Secure. Secure. Are we getting the point? It's free. It works.
If that's a major concern, they have the source code, they can edit the code however they want, so none of us no what it's runnin. What about Windows? A prebottled OS that has to have someone baby sit it the entire time the PC is on? No thanks. I'll stick with Linux.
And in other news SCO is planning a massive lawsuit against all open source programmers.
The chief software development engineer at SCO announced "Yeah, uh, I found where the open source community is commonly using this function call main(). Yeah. We have it in our code, and.... and we're gonna sue. Yeah."
In other news principle stock holders at SCO were seen trying to sell their stock to Cmdr Taco...
Slashdot Mirror
Oh well, at least I though it was funny..........
This is probably an underhanded idea, and a bad one at that, but suppose the RIAA talk people like Musicmatch into adding an extra little bit of code to their ripper for their trial version players. Whenever a CD was ripped using MusicMatch, a unique hash of the IP address (if static), general System ID and other identifing characteristics would be added somewhere within the file. Think about something like this. Let the RIAA download all the music they want for a few days or weeks, before some hacker notices. Then they have a list of who to prosecute for originally creating the file.
The saddest part of all of this - all of the fines you suggested are lighter than the ones suggested by our beloved Howard Berman as reported in this article and this earlier discussion.
That's great and all, but if they bring you to court like the letters say they will (if you don't pay) that becomes very public.
You forgot Microsoft owns the world.
Upgrading Windows involves either
a) Trip to Wal-mart for expensive OS
b) 'Discovering' an extra copy of the newest OS that happens to be laying around in my friends living room.
Most companies I know of wouldn't choose b.
Most companies don't have $100 - $200 to spend per PC and still be able to afford support for when something goes wrong.
I don't think they mind upgrading as much as they mind draining their entire budget upgrading.
Linux licencing fee - Free
Cost to modify kernel - Free
Not having to pay unreal licencing fees and buy software every few years - Priceless
With Windows, even without support, I have to buy every new version of the OS to stay patched
With Linux, even without support, I can download any new updates for free
I'm not trying to get flamed, I'm just sharing my personal opinion. I could be wrong. I am, for the most part, human. Thanks.
/* Beginning of quote */
Since our attempts to contact Microsoft have become public knowledge our team has been accused of attempting to extort or blackmail Microsoft, this is not true as we have made every attempt possible to make contact with Microsoft to offer the following:
- A complete summary of all hacking technologies (many of these technologies have not been released).
- Source Codes.
- All attacks which have been developed but not yet released.
- To sign a Non-disclosure Agreement regarding our discoveries.
- Further research on exploits, which would be exclusive to Microsoft.
- Full names of all hackers involved upon agreement of legal protection from Microsoft.
- Assistance in the development of future security for the XBox by working with Microsoft.
For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following:
- Complete access to all documentation (chipsets, video etc.) to assist in developing a better Linux for the XBox.
- A signed Linux loader.
- Protection from Microsoft or support if any organisation/government attempted to prosecute members of our team.
- Refunding of the cost occured during the agreement period.
/* End of Quote */
I think the threat went more like You listen to us tell you about the security vulerability that would probably tick off content creators or we'll tell everyone else in hopes to get you to fix the code.
Do you get mad when someone discovers a flaw in Internet Explorer? Oh, but this is different, they're blackmailing Microsoft...
Once again quoting - "For the exchange, we were requesting but not demanding the following:... A signed Linux loader.
From Parent - Frankly, I don't see how Free-X would have felt that they were approaching MS in a reasonable way. They offered to give microsoft all the code and to sign a non-disclosure agreement. They requested in exchange a linux boot loader. They asked. They didn't say "Give us what we want that's not in your own best interests or we'll tell people how to break your machine and potentially lose more money by having people buy XBOXes for uses other than buying the games that make them money." The bootloader was optional. They would give Microsoft the code either way. Microsoft wouldn't even listen. So what part was unreasonable? Disclosing the code, because Microsoft wouldn't listen? People do that all the time. Asking for something in exchange for work? Oh yeah, that unreasonable. Especially when you relize they were just asking.
On a comment regarding this issue, Mr. Gates assured us "It is vital to the health of the entire global industry that we guard consumer privacy and trade secrets. Anyone passing on the street could pick up an enormous ammount of information from someone who is wearing a watch that isn't secure."
Dark Lord Bill further went on to say "... It is imperative that we guard all avenues from this impending danger... of someone stealing the 'time of day'. Terrorrist use the time of day constantly... (futher ramblings too lengthy to be posted here)"
We recieved a brief demonstration, when a CNN corrospondent accidently glanced toward the watch worn by Mr. Gates. Within a brief second, the corrospondent burst into flames, and unfortunatly died.
In other news Mr. Bill Gates is sueing the family of a man who tried to steal the "time of day"...
Oh, and this might not be right, but listen anyway. Wouldn't Microsoft win both ways if it was to sell its own distro? Really, don't flame me yet. Forget a boot loader, give an entire linux distro with programs like gaim and the gimp. Use something like Redhat or Mandrake. Maybe engineer their own little version. Release the source code. The linux code is all they would have to release. They could keep the bootloader code and any program code, as long as it wasn't GPL'd (basically any software they design other than a modified kernel). Key the disc. Only that unaltered distro would be able to run on linux. Just to mess with out heads, they could make their linux code only run linux programs that they key. Put it in a nice little rectangle box and sell it at Best Buy for $39.99. Add a MSN client (like AMSN), but no yahoo or aim or icq client. Technically they could be going with the Austrailian's deal, would be working their way into the *nix community and would be making a few bucks on an already free distro. And on top of that, if the Austrailians went ahead and published their findings, Microsoft could get them for breach of contract.
And (off the subject) personally, I'm a Bill Gates fan. I believe that we would see far less problems come from Microsoft if the lawyers weren't the ones making all the choices.
Oh, on one last note, if Microsoft did key a linux disc for the Xbox, I believe that technically, that would make Microsoft the winner of the $100,000 prize for doing so. That might help repay some of the costs right there!
Hey, ya hear that noise behind ya? That's the Secret Service about to jump out and get ya.
They even can't keep their gaming console secure. And all of the hardware configurations are exactly identical. And they wrote the dashboard.
They were in charge of every aspect of production - hardware, software, etc.... There are no wierd variables to worry about (What if their chipset is made by blahblahblah and their processor is running at blahblahblah).
Not programming a secure OS, forgivable, but not programming a secure gaming console? Whatever.
You just sold me your house, except you only gave me keys to go in some of the rooms of the house through only the front door. I just found out how to crack all the locks to let me into my own house. If you don't give me the key to my backdoor then I'll tell everyone else you've done this to how they can get into their own houses
You're saying like Microsoft still owns the X-Box. If they want to sell it at a lose, fine. Whose fault is it that they assume I want to buy enough games to make up for them selling the box too cheap?
No. Publisizing an exploit isn't illegal. If it is, sue Microsoft for putting up their knowledge base. No, using an exploit is what gets people in trouble. Circumventing some form of copy protection is what gets people in trouble. No, you know what, go check out Symantec or some other security site. It's brimming with info, because people need to know.
1) Release a boot loader, lose money on X-box, promote linux.
2) Don't release boot loader, be in the public's eye about not even securing a gaming system, lose more money because of xbox sales and stolen games, don't promote linux as much.
The rock and the hardplace. That's exactly where Bill is. Kinda feel sorrry for him.
Then I plan to licence my Idea to the world (putting pinky up to mouth) for one-milllllion dollars.
So somewhere off in the universe, someone is using 90% of my brain power so they can get a slightly better Frames Per Second in Quake III. Now I get it...
Let's think about this for just a second. The architect tells Neo, that there are somethings that he cannot possible understand, because he is still, for the majority, human. But, the reverse of that is also true. The architect cannot fully understand Neo, or his line of thought, for the same reason, that Neo is still partially human. The architect made the statement that it was impossible for Neo to save Trinity, yet he did. This was not something that the architect had forseen. All of his logic is based on probabilities. He had no true understanding of human emotion. He did not foresee Neo altering the Matrix enough for him to save Trinity. He was using the logic that it had never been done before, so the changes of it happening were 0. The matrix has never been destroyed before, so in the architects minds, the chances infinity to one of losing.
Yeah. I admit you're right. All of you. I'm really sorry for my ignorance. I really wasn't quite up to speed on my security info. What I meant (go ahead and flame me, I deserve it after that) is that *nix is... Forget it. I'm screwed. Please, Oh great one's, forgive your humble servent for his stupidity. I've just kinda annoyed at the lawyer's at M$ right now. I was wrong. My post was real flame-bait. You're right no OS is secure. I have not excuse. I was stupid. I'm going to go lock myself in my room now... oh wait... I'm already here... Well, I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge. (Oh and I do get info on all the latest bugs, via e-mail.)
or
Strength - Having a pack of ravinous lawyers trailing anyone else in the so called open market making a product that resembles and or operates anything like Windows?
Name something all of these have in common.
Right! They all are virus's that microsoft could have prevented had they actually put any thought into the code for their os.
People don't even need the code for Windows to screw it over! Anyone can look for bugs in Linux. They find them. They patch them. Linux is where it's at.
On a closing note, do you real want an OS that locks you into MS's products? U.S. tries to split M$. M$ wins. U.S. buys os from M$. Kinda makes ya wonder about how that would affect the DOJ's bias, as opposed to free linux, rely on anyone else?
If that's a major concern, they have the source code, they can edit the code however they want, so none of us no what it's runnin. What about Windows? A prebottled OS that has to have someone baby sit it the entire time the PC is on? No thanks. I'll stick with Linux.
You're Bill Gates, aren't you?
I don't know why... I'd take one!
The chief software development engineer at SCO announced "Yeah, uh, I found where the open source community is commonly using this function call main(). Yeah. We have it in our code, and .... and we're gonna sue. Yeah."
In other news principle stock holders at SCO were seen trying to sell their stock to Cmdr Taco...