It is NOT about us "grumpy old men" saying "get off my LAN" because we hate change. We hate change for the sake OF change. The first rule: "Don't Fuck With It!" Translation for the layman: Don't fix what isn't broken! The wheel has been around _thousands_ of years because it _works_. Sure there are minor improvements here and there but the basic design & implementation doesn't leave people guessing.
I've been on/. since ~1999. IMHO, the only FEW things that/. needs to change in order to go from good to great are: (Sorted by priority)
* Editors to do their actual freaking JOB of fixing typos, spelling, grammar, dupes, bad/inaccurate headlines * Add UTF-8 support. Only of these I'll be able to post diacritics and über -- that is "Uber" with two umlauts. WTF is this 1997? * Allow us to edit our posts -- BUT show the original post so we can do a _visual_ DIFF of what has changed !/. innovated moderation.. PLEASE innovate again. * If they actually fixed their broken 'ecode' tag -- I'm a programmer yet still can't post properly aligned code!? * Fix their lame-ass lameness filter -- against I've been here years, I want to post CODE but I can't. WTF. * Allow us to private message (PM) other members like every other forum does. * Lastly, stop with the shitty Betteridge's Law of Headlines -- that is, stop trolling us just to get more "ad revenue"
That's IT ! (Please feel free to chime in what you would like to see in/.) Obviously the ad hominem arguments will go away but for the most part this is (or was) a mostly civilized and intelligent part of the internet before it got popular. If I want those stupid lolcat memes/articles I know where to go for emo-news.
All this extra whitespace crap and bad UI with/. beta? Do. Not. Want.
I've written about the "life cycle" of online social sites in the heck just 2 months ago in Dec 2013... http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
Sorry for bad netiquette of quoting myself...
I've been online for 20+ years. The cycle of online human communication is *always* the same.
* Forum (BBS / newsgroup / website) provides a common ground for people to share info. / tips / opinions * Site is small as only the "geeks" use it * Site gains Momentum and goes mainstream * The crazies come out of the woodwork -- Name Calling / Ad Hominem / Trolls attack -- people keep forgetting authority needs accountability * Moderators are either
a) 45% of the time non-existent
b) 45% of the time grammar/spelling/free-thought nazis where posters need to tow the party line,
c) 4% of the time does it rarely exist there are balanced moderators who allow a difference of opinion as long as it it kept civil and intelligent
d) 1% site allows members to self-moderate * All the old members complain about "the good ole days" when the noobs / newbs / hipsters, etc. didn't drive the S/N from Signal into Noise * New site starts that promises to be "Bigger, Better, Cheaper", etc. * Old site membership is split as some members leave to check out "Awesome new site" (temporarily, others for good), * Old site lingers but never really recovers from the mass influx of growth and decay. * Rinse and Repeat ad nauseum.
What/. did innovate at the time was to allow the crapfest of usenet to be FILTERED. Reddit has mob rule when you get carpet modded into oblivion because people don't want their thinking challenged.
> reddit (where I may soon be moving to if classic goes away)
/. is better then digg, 4chan, reddit, or any of those other emo-news sites. The sub-reddits are OK, but if you think the groupthink on/. was bad hell you haven't seen anything yet!
/. could be great if they actually fixed their broken 'ecode' tag, their lame lameness filter, and if the editors actually did their freakin job -- correcting spelling, typos, grammar, and dupes. When I think how bad/. is I always go visit another site only to find out it is even worse! Such as no user comments (or limited comments), you can only log in with fazebook of twitter, no moderation, group-think, excessive ad hominem, bad whitespace / UI, etc.
I've had some wonderful discussions and arguments here on/. over the years. At least there is _some_ token of civil discussion here -- or at least there used to be...
> I hope the next revolution in software engineering will probably be some more automatic way to handle errors, just like garbage collection was to memory handling.
That would be extremely nice; In the past I would of argued TINSTAAFL but now that 4-core 2.x GHz is starting to get common switching away from the fundamental root problem of "von Neumann architecture" might be an option. However I don't see anyone switching to the Harvard Architecture anytime soon which means yet another 40+ years of buffer overflows before people wise up... simply because it is to costly for array bounds checking.:-/
1. When I have to work around some bullshit because the image editor I paid for (b)locks me from even viewing what it thinks are high resolution scans of money... Adobe can fuck off.
2. When they start charging "rent" for software as a service... Adobe can fuck off.
"According to CNET and various other sources, CS6 will be the last version of Adobe's Creative Suite that will be sold in the traditional manner. All future versions will be available by subscription only, through Adobe's so-called 'Creative Cloud' service. This means that before too long, anyone who wants an up-to-date version of Photoshop won't be able to buy it â" they will have to pay $50 per month (minimum subscription term: one year)...."
"We've made it really clear to folks that you get the discounted price only for the first year," Morris said. "We're pretty confident that even when the price normalizes at the $50 list price, most of these customers are going to stay."
My sentiments exactly. One of the reasons I use Chrome: Don't have to install's Adobe's bloatware for Flash and/or PDFs. If a browser has security issues with plugins then you know there are bigger problems.:-)
Sorry for not communicating the context of the time frame more succinctly...
FF v?? -- forgot which version added the about:memory -- memory leak was about 1/2 plugged FF v25 -- no youtube downloader, no plugins, leaks memory slowly FF v26 -- youtube downloader, still leaks memory slowly
I find Chrome's design of 1-process-per-tab to not have any hidden memory leaks compared to FF's lets-share-everything and GC everything later.
When you FF using 2 GB of RAM, every tab closed except 1 blank one, and pressing the GC button in the about:memory which does NOTHING -- there is a fundamental deeper problem with FF's memory usage design.
> The ALL CAPS menu may not be your cup of tea, but it was a retarded conscious design choice
And that's why you posted your reply in ALL UPPERCASE 1980 Apple ][ style right?? Just to drive the point home since you completely missed it...
OH, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
THE ALL CAPS MENU MAY NOT BE YOUR CUP OF TEA, BUT IT WAS A CONSCIOUS DESIGN CHOICE AND IT'S UNIFORM ACROSS MOST (IF NOT ALL) OF MICROSOFT'S CURRENT PRODUCT OFFERINGS. THE ALL CAPS MENU IS PRESENT IN OFFICE, VS, BING.COM, ZUNE, XBOX, ETC.
LIKE IT OR NOT, IT'S A MINOR IRRITATION AT MOST (AND ONE EASILY REMEDIED) IN ONE OF THE BEST IDEAS ON THE PLANET. I'D ARGUE THAT VS 2013 IS THE SINGLE BEST DEVELOPER TOOL EVER BUILT BUT I KNOW THE ANTI-MS MONKEYS WILL COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK TOUTING ECLIPSE'S CLUTTERED DESIGN AND CLUNKY ARCHITECTURE AS THE NEXT COMING OF CHRIST.
IF MS WEREN'T MAKING CHANGES, THEY'D BE STAGNANT. SINCE THEY ARE MAKING CHANGES, THEY'RE PRETENTIOUS ASSHOLES.
It is NOT about MS making changes, it is about them making retarded UI changes. Some of us actually grew up with computers BEFORE they had this "luxury" called lower case. You should try this thing that involves books called reading or should I say:
"YOU SHOULD TRY THIS THING THAT INVOLVES BOOKS CALLED READING."
> Chrome uses more ram than any other browser according to benchmarks.
And in the real world of actual usage when I use it for a month straight with 100+ tabs, closing ALL the tabs down Firefox STILL hogs about 2 GB of RAM. The only work around I've found is to completely restart FF which has minimal RAM usage. And no, "about:memory" with manual forcing the GC to run doesn't help.
> A lot has changed since 2011. LOL. I've been using FF since the 1.x days. I see the same slow memory leak version after version. I will agree that FF is getting better, but it still has a ways to go. I gave up on it being my primary browser about 4 years ago. Chrome is faster, has more features, doesn't leak memory. The only thing I use FF these days is for a you-tube downloader which is why I continue to suspect that I believe they aren't properly releasing the extension's memory.
I hear you! Your list is priceless ! I've seen some of those bugzillas from time to time and you are spot on.
Ignoring a problem a problem doesn't make it go away, as much as the FF dev's would like to remain delusional.
I used to hate Chrome with a passion and refused to use it for a year or two. But after running FF from pre 1.x to 26 I gave up on FF about 4 years ago once I saw Chromes "Task Manager", the built-in Flash player, and built-in PDF previewer.
I keep trying FF every version to see if the memory leak has been fixed. I run lots of 50+ tabs for about a month straight before FF craps out. Closing all the tabs down, using about:memory and forcing the GC to run doesn't lower the memory usage down. The only work around I've found is to restart FF which has again has low memory usage.
Thanks for the support and the validation that I'm not the only one who noticed the FF dev's being smug at times. A little honesty wouldn't kill them.
Believe it or not, the issue is actually more then some obscure ideological desire. Let me explain...
With closed hardware it costs a FORTUNE to get all the bugs out. By using cheap commodity off-the-shelf hardware you can save
a) debugging time), and
b) get something that just works. Wait, you mean don't like tossing out thousands of units due to some design flaw?:-)
With a closed OS how many man-years will you pay to make it
a) secure, and
b) write drivers?
Again an open OS is "good enough". You are leveraging the rest of the "community". So there can be significant financial savings by going the open hardware + software route.
> (C) He thinks that being made CEO is a punishment for some mistake he's made in his current job.
That's known as the "Peter Principle" or "Dilbert Principle";-)
"... companies tend to systematically promote their least-competent employees to management (generally middle management), in order to limit the amount of damage they are capable of doing."
We use uppercase and lowercase in books to make it EASIER to read. Reading off a screen is already harder on the eyes why the hell would you make it even more so?!?! Oh, and let's get rid of those underlines so people can actually *see* and *learn* the hotkeys / keyboard accelerators. Let's dumb the UI down to full retard mode because how dare anyone suggest you can design a UI for novices and the power user!
Microsoft will never understand that you need to take advantage of the strengthsANDbe aware of the weaknesses of the hardware to massage the Software + Hardware + User Experience. Microsoft has all the arrogance of Apple without understanding why Apple makes some of its changes. (Apple is by no means a saint, but they tend to have a more consistent User Experience.)
> they poisoned their own corporate environment
Yup! Stack Ranking has to be the dumbest move ever. As a company you want to motivate your employees; it is also import to not demotivate them.
Any teenager could of told you the outcome because (intrinsically with their sense of entitlement) they understand John Gilmore's quote very well:
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
Of course the problem goes both ways: Content Creators: Failing to understand "Whack-A-Mole" doesn't work on the internet. Content Consumers: Unable to respect the wishes of the creators.
> $100 for an Amazon version of the Ouya would be kind of cool.
I agree, but the hardware is kind useless without software. The one thing Balmer got right is you need developers to write great software for your hardware.
With today's market...
You need open hardware You need an open OS You need an open SDK You need to court indies (to get as many games as possible)
Otherwise the industry is too entrenched into the existing infrastructure of consoles and mobile.
> thought the Peace Prizes to Gore and Obama to be the most asinine thing that the committee has ever done.
Concur 100% ! Considering Obama did fuck all to receive the prize, Snowden exposing the lies of the government most certainly deserves more then 1 medal !
Agreed 100%. Another question for the "Snowden is a traitor" camp:
Why aren't his superiors ALSO labeled as traitors as well ?? They are sworn to uphold the constitution. What makes them justified that they feel they can break the law?
The government is breaking the law, and continues to act illegally. A civilian breaks the law (oh how convenient) to expose the illegal activities. Why is the civilian prosecuted and the original offender let off scott free?? Why again are we also not trying and sentencing the government officials who broke the law in the first place??
Uh, not to detract from your exceptional points, this isn't exactly a new thing...
"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates
And parents wonder why being lazy and letting someone else indoctrinate their children isn't a problem...
Slashdot Mirror
Concur 100% ! Well said Rival !
It is NOT about us "grumpy old men" saying "get off my LAN" because we hate change. We hate change for the sake OF change. The first rule: "Don't Fuck With It!" Translation for the layman: Don't fix what isn't broken! The wheel has been around _thousands_ of years because it _works_. Sure there are minor improvements here and there but the basic design & implementation doesn't leave people guessing.
I've been on /. since ~1999. IMHO, the only FEW things that /. needs to change in order to go from good to great are: (Sorted by priority)
* Editors to do their actual freaking JOB of fixing typos, spelling, grammar, dupes, bad/inaccurate headlines /. innovated moderation .. PLEASE innovate again.
* Add UTF-8 support. Only of these I'll be able to post diacritics and über -- that is "Uber" with two umlauts. WTF is this 1997?
* Allow us to edit our posts -- BUT show the original post so we can do a _visual_ DIFF of what has changed !
* If they actually fixed their broken 'ecode' tag -- I'm a programmer yet still can't post properly aligned code!?
* Fix their lame-ass lameness filter -- against I've been here years, I want to post CODE but I can't. WTF.
* Allow us to private message (PM) other members like every other forum does.
* Lastly, stop with the shitty Betteridge's Law of Headlines -- that is, stop trolling us just to get more "ad revenue"
That's IT ! (Please feel free to chime in what you would like to see in /.) Obviously the ad hominem arguments will go away but for the most part this is (or was) a mostly civilized and intelligent part of the internet before it got popular. If I want those stupid lolcat memes/articles I know where to go for emo-news.
All this extra whitespace crap and bad UI with /. beta? Do. Not. Want.
I've written about the "life cycle" of online social sites in the heck just 2 months ago in Dec 2013 ...
http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
Sorry for bad netiquette of quoting myself ...
Thoughts?
--
Only Cowards Censor
> reddit (where I may soon be moving to if classic goes away)
I've had some wonderful discussions and arguments here on /. over the years. At least there is _some_ token of civil discussion here -- or at least there used to be ...
-- /. Beta
Fuck
> I hope the next revolution in software engineering will probably be some more automatic way to handle errors, just like garbage collection was to memory handling.
That would be extremely nice; In the past I would of argued TINSTAAFL but now that 4-core 2.x GHz is starting to get common switching away from the fundamental root problem of "von Neumann architecture" might be an option. However I don't see anyone switching to the Harvard Architecture anytime soon which means yet another 40+ years of buffer overflows before people wise up ... simply because it is to costly for array bounds checking. :-/
You might find this read interesting:
* "The von Neumann Architecture of Computer Systems"
http://www.csupomona.edu/~hnri...
References:
* Von Neumann architecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...
* Harvard architecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...
--
"Beautiful Form Helps Function
Ugly Form Hinders Function"
One of the many reasons it is import to write beautiful code & algorithms.
> Let's just stop bagging on Adobe...
1. When I have to work around some bullshit because the image editor I paid for (b)locks me from even viewing what it thinks are high resolution scans of money ... Adobe can fuck off.
* https://www.google.com/search?...
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
* http://www.rulesforuse.org/pub...
2. When they start charging "rent" for software as a service ... Adobe can fuck off.
* Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001...
Translation: We're going to gouge customers whether they like it or not. $ucker$!
So no, we'll stop bagging on Adobe's crap once they stop being dicks not before.
> I won't even install it on my machines.
My sentiments exactly. One of the reasons I use Chrome: Don't have to install's Adobe's bloatware for Flash and/or PDFs. If a browser has security issues with plugins then you know there are bigger problems. :-)
Exactly. And nothing of value was lost. :-)
Sorry for not communicating the context of the time frame more succinctly ...
FF v?? -- forgot which version added the about:memory -- memory leak was about 1/2 plugged
FF v25 -- no youtube downloader, no plugins, leaks memory slowly
FF v26 -- youtube downloader, still leaks memory slowly
I find Chrome's design of 1-process-per-tab to not have any hidden memory leaks compared to FF's lets-share-everything and GC everything later.
When you FF using 2 GB of RAM, every tab closed except 1 blank one, and pressing the GC button in the about:memory which does NOTHING -- there is a fundamental deeper problem with FF's memory usage design.
> The ALL CAPS menu may not be your cup of tea, but it was a retarded conscious design choice
And that's why you posted your reply in ALL UPPERCASE 1980 Apple ][ style right?? Just to drive the point home since you completely missed it...
It is NOT about MS making changes, it is about them making retarded UI changes. Some of us actually grew up with computers BEFORE they had this "luxury" called lower case. You should try this thing that involves books called reading or should I say:
"YOU SHOULD TRY THIS THING THAT INVOLVES BOOKS CALLED READING."
--
"Only cowards censor"
> Chrome uses more ram than any other browser according to benchmarks.
And in the real world of actual usage when I use it for a month straight with 100+ tabs, closing ALL the tabs down Firefox STILL hogs about 2 GB of RAM. The only work around I've found is to completely restart FF which has minimal RAM usage. And no, "about:memory" with manual forcing the GC to run doesn't help.
> A lot has changed since 2011.
LOL. I've been using FF since the 1.x days. I see the same slow memory leak version after version. I will agree that FF is getting better, but it still has a ways to go. I gave up on it being my primary browser about 4 years ago. Chrome is faster, has more features, doesn't leak memory. The only thing I use FF these days is for a you-tube downloader which is why I continue to suspect that I believe they aren't properly releasing the extension's memory.
I hear you! Your list is priceless ! I've seen some of those bugzillas from time to time and you are spot on.
Ignoring a problem a problem doesn't make it go away, as much as the FF dev's would like to remain delusional.
I used to hate Chrome with a passion and refused to use it for a year or two. But after running FF from pre 1.x to 26 I gave up on FF about 4 years ago once I saw Chromes "Task Manager", the built-in Flash player, and built-in PDF previewer.
I keep trying FF every version to see if the memory leak has been fixed. I run lots of 50+ tabs for about a month straight before FF craps out. Closing all the tabs down, using about:memory and forcing the GC to run doesn't lower the memory usage down. The only work around I've found is to restart FF which has again has low memory usage.
Thanks for the support and the validation that I'm not the only one who noticed the FF dev's being smug at times. A little honesty wouldn't kill them.
I'm quite well aware of about:memory for years and no, it still doesn't fix the problem.
My suspicion was that it was the Flash plugin leaking memory but I don't use any plugins with FF and it still leaks memory albeit -- much more slowly.
I don't use social media so could care less about bloatware.
I just want FF's memory leak to be fixed instead of the devs ignoring it version after version, year after year.
Chrome's "Task Manager" that shows per tab it's Name, Memory, CPU Usage, Network Traffic and FPS still lacks any counter part in FF.
Believe it or not, the issue is actually more then some obscure ideological desire. Let me explain ...
With closed hardware it costs a FORTUNE to get all the bugs out. By using cheap commodity off-the-shelf hardware you can save :-)
a) debugging time), and
b) get something that just works.
Wait, you mean don't like tossing out thousands of units due to some design flaw?
With a closed OS how many man-years will you pay to make it
a) secure, and
b) write drivers?
Again an open OS is "good enough". You are leveraging the rest of the "community". So there can be significant financial savings by going the open hardware + software route.
--
"Only cowards censor"
> (C) He thinks that being made CEO is a punishment for some mistake he's made in his current job.
That's known as the "Peter Principle" or "Dilbert Principle" ;-)
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...
You are 100% bang on when you say " Let's try this! No, this! No, that! " -- Microsoft is running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
It is because MS doen't have a freaking clue about *good* User Interface or User Experience. To understand UI you need to understand TWO things:
1. S/N and
2. Flow.
Here is the perfect example of Microsoft being total fucktards: google: visual studio 2012 menu all caps
https://www.google.com/search?...
We use uppercase and lowercase in books to make it EASIER to read. Reading off a screen is already harder on the eyes why the hell would you make it even more so?!?! Oh, and let's get rid of those underlines so people can actually *see* and *learn* the hotkeys / keyboard accelerators. Let's dumb the UI down to full retard mode because how dare anyone suggest you can design a UI for novices and the power user!
Microsoft will never understand that you need to take advantage of the strengths AND be aware of the weaknesses of the hardware to massage the Software + Hardware + User Experience. Microsoft has all the arrogance of Apple without understanding why Apple makes some of its changes. (Apple is by no means a saint, but they tend to have a more consistent User Experience.)
> they poisoned their own corporate environment
Yup! Stack Ranking has to be the dumbest move ever. As a company you want to motivate your employees; it is also import to not demotivate them.
Again, MS is clueless.
> on a 240GB SSD, the footprint is something like 10%. Am I the only one who feels that's absurd?
That's because Windows 7 ships with idiotic 1972 defaults. I have 16 GB of ram and a 128 GB SSD. Normally Window would waste:
18 GB C:\Windows (will vary, don't waste time "optimizing" for space)
16 GB Hibernation hiberfile.sys
16 GB Virtual Memory pagefile.sys
====
50 GB / 128 GB = 39% !!!
To get back 32 GB out of 128 GB SSD space which is 25% space (!!) I turn off that unneeded hibernation and VM crap.
Reclaim VM pagefile.sys
Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Properties -> Advanced System Settings -> Settings (Performance) -> Advanced Tab -> Change -> Uncheck Automatically manage -> No paging file -> Set -> OK -> Restart your computer
Reclaim Hibernation hiberfil.sys
Start Menu -> Type cmd -> Right-Click the cmd Icon -> Run as Administrator -> Type powercfg -h off -> Type exit
This link provides more tips
* http://www.guru3d.com/article/...
--
"Only cowards censor"
Any teenager could of told you the outcome because (intrinsically with their sense of entitlement) they understand John Gilmore's quote very well:
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
Of course the problem goes both ways:
Content Creators: Failing to understand "Whack-A-Mole" doesn't work on the internet.
Content Consumers: Unable to respect the wishes of the creators.
--
Only cowards censor
> $100 for an Amazon version of the Ouya would be kind of cool.
I agree, but the hardware is kind useless without software. The one thing Balmer got right is you need developers to write great software for your hardware.
With today's market ...
You need open hardware
You need an open OS
You need an open SDK
You need to court indies (to get as many games as possible)
Otherwise the industry is too entrenched into the existing infrastructure of consoles and mobile.
That is an interesting point. Anyone have an idea of how many patents Google was able to buy originally?
> thought the Peace Prizes to Gore and Obama to be the most asinine thing that the committee has ever done.
Concur 100% ! Considering Obama did fuck all to receive the prize, Snowden exposing the lies of the government most certainly deserves more then 1 medal !
Very eloquent post ! Government has failed the first lesson about technology:
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
And if you can't that does NOT imply to wantonly ignore the rules, nor does it mean simply change them to suit your fancy.
Agreed 100%. Another question for the "Snowden is a traitor" camp:
Why aren't his superiors ALSO labeled as traitors as well ?? They are sworn to uphold the constitution. What makes them justified that they feel they can break the law?
Agreed 100% ! Is it only in America that things are fucked up this bad??
Lie and get away with it.
Tell the truth and get convicted for it.
--
Life, verb, "The journey of self discovery"
The government is breaking the law, and continues to act illegally.
A civilian breaks the law (oh how convenient) to expose the illegal activities.
Why is the civilian prosecuted and the original offender let off scott free??
Why again are we also not trying and sentencing the government officials who broke the law in the first place??
You seem to be misunderstanding "Civil Disobedience". Here is a refresher course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
Uh, not to detract from your exceptional points, this isn't exactly a new thing ...
"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates
And parents wonder why being lazy and letting someone else indoctrinate their children isn't a problem ...