> crystalspace seems to have a stigma associated with it of being antiquated.
Probably going to get flamed and down-modded, but what the hell. IAAPGD (I AM a professional game developer) and shipped titles on PSX, PC, PS2, and soon Wii.
CS has been around, what 10 years? It was crap for the first few years. It overly complicated something simple, with terrible class design and coding style that was clearly written by an amateur. Unless you've shipped a game or two, most developers just aren't aware of all the issues -- not just tech, but features, that a game engine needs. A game engine really needs to run on both PC and consoles so it has the opportunity to have a _clean_ API of the various math, rendering, collision detection, collision response, physics, sound, input, etc.
Since it's not good to criticize without offering a solution, David Eberly's Wild Magic engine and books do a very nice job of clearly explaining the how and why's of engine design. It's not perfect, and you can tell where he had to make compromises, but it's a joy to read. Probably because he wrote NetImmerse before they became Gamebryo.
> where you could be shot if you if you wrote a single line in C++ (device drivers, some embedded systems etc).
SO you use a poor language when a better one will do?! The 70's called. They want their language back.
Don't get me wrong, I love C, but there is absolutely no reason to _still_ be using C in the _21st century_ when you could be using Embedded C++ to get rid of the stupid "typedef struct" type declarations, and other C idioms such as implicit int, no proper bool support, limited variable declarations, etc. There is a reason C++ is popular with us game devs. It got rid of most of the brain-dead C assumptions and annoyances, and lets us have our performance along with code readability.
I'm currently working on an Open GL implementation for the Wii. I inherited some some old C code to use as a base, and it was an absolute mess and painful to read without basic C++ syntax, before I cleaned it up. Doing OOP in C stinks! Use C++ for a few years, then go back to C. You'll realize how many little things are improved.
Depending on your real-time nature constraints, you'll want to turn off RTTI, Exceptions, Virtual Funcs, and Multiple Inheritance and use C++ as a better C to _at least _ get some better compile time type safety.
But I guess some people like being a masochist instead of using a newer language that helps the programmer express abstract and compact idioms.
When you're 20, you can afford to waste time recompiling your kernel every day.
But when you're 30, your priorities change, because there's more to life, such as wife, kids, friends, hobbies, gaming, etc...
I just don't have the time to waste setting up a computer like I once did. Sure OpenBSD is the best firewall, but a cheap $69 linksys router is "good enough" and I don't have to spend days going over shell/config scripts. I would also argue Windows is "good enough", because the average power user doesn't have to dick around setting things up to run -- they can focus on why they were using the computer in the first place -- such as playing WoW with guildies using TeamSpeak/Vent:)
I know a lot of non-computer people, and geeks too, switching over to OS X -- consistent UI (you don't realize how much time you waste with the W32 GUI). As a developer its pretty sweet -- runs W32, Unix, and OSX apps. Perfect for porting.
People just want computers to _work_ with minimal fuss. It's not rocket science -- just computer science and psychology. The tech is largely irrelevent these days.
Maybe where _you_ live, but not for the rest of the world, dude. Pull your head out of the sand and look around.
It is perfectly _legal_ to download music in Canada. Why? Because LAW is SUBJECTIVE, created BY the PEOPLE, FOR the PEOPLE.
> no one is stupid enough to think that piracy is legal
No one is stupid enough to think that copyright is an ABSOLUTE. It was _created_ in the 17th century by the _publishers_. It is an _artificial_ right.
Copyright is an archaic hold-over when people used to whine over "mine", instead of sharing what they created. It's time to step into the 21st. These games of aritifical scarcity and control are immature.
> When someone figures out that how to balance solo play with group play with PvP and PvE so that any combination you want to choose is viable and actually delivers it.
Why don't you first define what you mean by "balance" ??
* The intro, for who have graduated school (basic reading, but not familiar with the vernacular) * The person getting started into the field, with terms introduced the first time they are used (probably taking a college course, or just graduated college/university) * The Ph D level with tons of intimate details (written by people who teach and research the topic for a living)
Math is taught terribly in North America.
Kids can do MODULAR math, when they learn to read time. NO ONE tells them though! Kids can also do Calculus, when they throw & catch a ball.
Yet when they get to high school, they think Math is "hard"?? Because we're not using the language _they_ are familiar with. There is a time and a place to introduce terminology to minimize the communication time, and ambiguitity, but there needs to be better analogies and more real-world examples of how to APPLY the math.
People really need to be show the "bigger" picture, of how things fit together. We're learning more and more about less and less.
> the vast majority of Muslims do not believe that in any way, and the Koran is actually very clear on the rules of war,
Have you even _read_ what the Koran says? The Koran is corrupted just as much as the Bible.
* "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
* "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
* "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
* "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)
* "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
* "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
* "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
* "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
* "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
* "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
* "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
* And the reward for those who kill those who are not Muslim: "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)
Only to us developers. You know, the ones, who have to know how much performance we can get out of the system.:-) One of the nice things is that we can run our game at the full 640x80 versus 512 width on the PS2. Ironically, the limited graphics is helping taking the burden off of only focusing on graphics, and more on gameplay and stylized art (such as the Mii) Nintendo has always focused on fun games, and I think its finally starting to pay off.
Yeah, the Wii is a GC1.5. But for consumers, they could care less about performance. All they want are fun games. The wiimote is helping with this -- giving developers a chance to think of different ways of using it. I think part of the concern is that we don't want another "light gun" fiasco. Have to wait and see.
-- "How long do we have to wait for Drum Hero using dual nunchucks on the Wii?"
> But why do so many Slashdotters seem to be in favor of ripping off artists, programmers,
I am a games programmer. (A few) People copy my games. Get over it.
Why? Few reasons. I certainly don't see an extra dime because a few people make copies -- that money is sucked up the publishers, but at least a few other people might read the credits, and be interested in finding out who designed and created the games, and look for other games by us. And then maybe they'll tell their friends about the game. Word of mouth advertising is the best kind -- since it's free. And maybe a demand will be created for more of our games. How much is _that_ worth??
I create art & entertainment because I enjoy problem solving, and making people feel good, not because I'm interested in making a buck. I happy (and thankful) that it pays the bills, but I also recognize that I don't have some god-given right to profit.
Frankly there are only 2 types of artists: Those in it for the money, and those in it because they love it. If you can't make enough money "Sucks To Be You." If you can't make enough money doing what you do, time to find another job, because either you suck, or your marketing sucks. Britney Spears should be proof enough of this: Only in America can you over-market crap, and STILL have people willing to pay for it.
> lame critiques of copyright law
Because it is an _artifical_ ARCHAIC law from the last millennium. ALL laws are _artificial_. If enough people see the stupidity in "owning" a long string of numbers, then outdated laws like copyright will eventually change. In Canada it is LEGAL to download music, because people see no difference in going to a library and listening to it, or borrowing the music from a friend.
Copyright was created by the _publishers_ to stop other publishers. This artificial control and power over stopping people from sharing information and art is on its way out. You can't stop people from sharing.
> How's that for mainstream? Wake up Blizzard. Make Diablo 3.
Whole heartidly agree!
I don't understand why Blizzard ignores D2 so much -- I mean, how many 7-year old games are there that are STILL being played actively?!
It really sucks that none of the bugs in the game will ever be fixed.
The only thing D2 _really_ needs is:
a) An option for the game creator to boot any one from games (why am I _forced_ to allow PKs into my public games?!) b) Loot Rules (master looter, group, etc) like WoW (along with automatic gold pickup) c) Ability to respec both skills and talents. Make it cost something, with a one delay. d) Enable the organ set, runewords and Uber Diablo offline for us single players (without having to use a mod like the awesome PlugY) e) Option to pay $5 month to play on "perferred" servers where there is NO LAG!!!!
Rest are just my "wishlist"...
f) An option to trade items without going into the game! The ability to stack gems would be nice too. Trading 40 gems stinks! g) official muling support (Not everyone has 2+ computers and 2+ copies of the game) i.e. a SHARED stash like PlugY is perfect. h) Talents above 20, but with the cost being the skill level / 10. j) Make Gold actually worth something! Remove the stupid level restriction on characters and stash, and allow me to purchase set items once I have found them. k) Fix the Ancients bypass glitch, OR allow us to create mules that are limited to level 9 and can enter any difficulty. l) Make the Pali's Meditation aura useful again! When was the last time you ever saw a Medadin? Runewords killed a lot of interesting and unique builds. Not everyone wants a hammerdin or smite-adin!
I could post a ton more ideas, but that's enough for now... (Yes, I've played FAR too many hours on fine, fine, game)
Slashdot Mirror
Cool .sig
Considering they used to fill _football_ stadiums with SC tourneys in Korea, don't underestimate how much it has sold, or continues to sell.
The free to play online ability is also a big hit with parents. Witness Runescape's popularity.
But what do I know, I only work in the games industry...
> Because these benefits are automatically bestowed upon everyone who lives in our society, it's sometimes tempting to try to "opt out" of the system.
By what "right" do you have to FORCE me to "opt in" ?
ALL LAW is based on contract law, and since there is NO LAW that REQUIRES a person to opt in, you're argument is flawed.
Probably should add that Wild Magic is now the excellent Geometric Tools.
? topic_id=310637
And here's a thread where David mentions him writing NetImmerse for those interested...
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp
> crystalspace seems to have a stigma associated with it of being antiquated.
Probably going to get flamed and down-modded, but what the hell. IAAPGD (I AM a professional game developer) and shipped titles on PSX, PC, PS2, and soon Wii.
CS has been around, what 10 years? It was crap for the first few years. It overly complicated something simple, with terrible class design and coding style that was clearly written by an amateur. Unless you've shipped a game or two, most developers just aren't aware of all the issues -- not just tech, but features, that a game engine needs. A game engine really needs to run on both PC and consoles so it has the opportunity to have a _clean_ API of the various math, rendering, collision detection, collision response, physics, sound, input, etc.
Since it's not good to criticize without offering a solution, David Eberly's Wild Magic engine and books do a very nice job of clearly explaining the how and why's of engine design. It's not perfect, and you can tell where he had to make compromises, but it's a joy to read. Probably because he wrote NetImmerse before they became Gamebryo.
Cheers
Ah, nothing like shooting the messenger and ignoring the message.
Here's a tip: your word of the day is: Ad hominem; come back when you are willing to engage in a civil conversation.
Cheers
> where you could be shot if you if you wrote a single line in C++ (device drivers, some embedded systems etc).
SO you use a poor language when a better one will do?! The 70's called. They want their language back.
Don't get me wrong, I love C, but there is absolutely no reason to _still_ be using C in the _21st century_ when you could be using Embedded C++ to get rid of the stupid "typedef struct" type declarations, and other C idioms such as implicit int, no proper bool support, limited variable declarations, etc. There is a reason C++ is popular with us game devs. It got rid of most of the brain-dead C assumptions and annoyances, and lets us have our performance along with code readability.
I'm currently working on an Open GL implementation for the Wii. I inherited some some old C code to use as a base, and it was an absolute mess and painful to read without basic C++ syntax, before I cleaned it up. Doing OOP in C stinks! Use C++ for a few years, then go back to C. You'll realize how many little things are improved.
Depending on your real-time nature constraints, you'll want to turn off RTTI, Exceptions, Virtual Funcs, and Multiple Inheritance and use C++ as a better C to _at least _ get some better compile time type safety.
But I guess some people like being a masochist instead of using a newer language that helps the programmer express abstract and compact idioms.
> Ref: shouting 'fire' in a theatre. (person shouting 'fire' gets consequences, we accept that in this situation person did not have free speech)
....
And if there REALLY is a fire ?
Gotta agree.
:)
When you're 20, you can afford to waste time recompiling your kernel every day.
But when you're 30, your priorities change, because there's more to life, such as wife, kids, friends, hobbies, gaming, etc...
I just don't have the time to waste setting up a computer like I once did. Sure OpenBSD is the best firewall, but a cheap $69 linksys router is "good enough" and I don't have to spend days going over shell/config scripts. I would also argue Windows is "good enough", because the average power user doesn't have to dick around setting things up to run -- they can focus on why they were using the computer in the first place -- such as playing WoW with guildies using TeamSpeak/Vent
I know a lot of non-computer people, and geeks too, switching over to OS X -- consistent UI (you don't realize how much time you waste with the W32 GUI). As a developer its pretty sweet -- runs W32, Unix, and OSX apps. Perfect for porting.
People just want computers to _work_ with minimal fuss. It's not rocket science -- just computer science and psychology. The tech is largely irrelevent these days.
>look what they did to NPR.
What happened to NPR??
> PIRACY IS ILLEGAL.
Maybe where _you_ live, but not for the rest of the world, dude. Pull your head out of the sand and look around.
It is perfectly _legal_ to download music in Canada. Why? Because LAW is SUBJECTIVE, created BY the PEOPLE, FOR the PEOPLE.
> no one is stupid enough to think that piracy is legal
No one is stupid enough to think that copyright is an ABSOLUTE. It was _created_ in the 17th century by the _publishers_. It is an _artificial_ right.
Copyright is an archaic hold-over when people used to whine over "mine", instead of sharing what they created. It's time to step into the 21st. These games of aritifical scarcity and control are immature.
Cheers
--
"Governmnet is a neccessary evil."
No, that was ''Nipplegate'', one of the most watched events...
Uhm, because we all know running away from the problem made it go away...
Fucking idiot. One word: LIBRARY.
OS 10.3.9 running on a PowerMac G3 333 MHz here.
:-)
Works fine for email, web browsing, and Diablo2 muling.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a movie worth? :-)
:)
What programmers do...
--
It's not everyday you get to implement OpenGL on the Wii
> When someone figures out that how to balance solo play with group play with PvP and PvE so that any combination you want to choose is viable and actually delivers it.
Why don't you first define what you mean by "balance" ??
Agreed!
That's why there needs to be 3 "versions":
* The intro, for who have graduated school (basic reading, but not familiar with the vernacular)
* The person getting started into the field, with terms introduced the first time they are used (probably taking a college course, or just graduated college/university)
* The Ph D level with tons of intimate details (written by people who teach and research the topic for a living)
Math is taught terribly in North America.
Kids can do MODULAR math, when they learn to read time. NO ONE tells them though!
Kids can also do Calculus, when they throw & catch a ball.
Yet when they get to high school, they think Math is "hard"?? Because we're not using the language _they_ are familiar with. There is a time and a place to introduce terminology to minimize the communication time, and ambiguitity, but there needs to be better analogies and more real-world examples of how to APPLY the math.
People really need to be show the "bigger" picture, of how things fit together. We're learning more and more about less and less.
Cheers
> the vast majority of Muslims do not believe that in any way, and the Koran is actually very clear on the rules of war,
Have you even _read_ what the Koran says? The Koran is corrupted just as much as the Bible.
* "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
* "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
* "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
* "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)
* "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
* "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
* "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
* "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
* "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
* "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
* "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
* And the reward for those who kill those who are not Muslim: "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)
> does that really make such a big difference?
:-) One of the nice things is that we can run our game at the full 640x80 versus 512 width on the PS2. Ironically, the limited graphics is helping taking the burden off of only focusing on graphics, and more on gameplay and stylized art (such as the Mii) Nintendo has always focused on fun games, and I think its finally starting to pay off.
Only to us developers. You know, the ones, who have to know how much performance we can get out of the system.
Yeah, the Wii is a GC1.5. But for consumers, they could care less about performance. All they want are fun games. The wiimote is helping with this -- giving developers a chance to think of different ways of using it. I think part of the concern is that we don't want another "light gun" fiasco. Have to wait and see.
--
"How long do we have to wait for Drum Hero using dual nunchucks on the Wii?"
Also, see:
Ethics of Liberty, 15. "Human Rights" as Property Rights
> That includes being able to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. If you're not allowed to do that, then you do not truly have freedom of speech.
What if the theater REALLY is on fire?!
That example is NOT about freedom of speech, but about property rights.
i.e.
http://blog.mises.org/archives/003070.asp
Welcome to the 21st century...
> But why do so many Slashdotters seem to be in favor of ripping off artists, programmers,
I am a games programmer. (A few) People copy my games. Get over it.
Why? Few reasons. I certainly don't see an extra dime because a few people make copies -- that money is sucked up the publishers, but at least a few other people might read the credits, and be interested in finding out who designed and created the games, and look for other games by us. And then maybe they'll tell their friends about the game. Word of mouth advertising is the best kind -- since it's free. And maybe a demand will be created for more of our games. How much is _that_ worth??
I create art & entertainment because I enjoy problem solving, and making people feel good, not because I'm interested in making a buck. I happy (and thankful) that it pays the bills, but I also recognize that I don't have some god-given right to profit.
Frankly there are only 2 types of artists: Those in it for the money, and those in it because they love it.
If you can't make enough money "Sucks To Be You." If you can't make enough money doing what you do, time to find another job, because either you suck, or your marketing sucks. Britney Spears should be proof enough of this: Only in America can you over-market crap, and STILL have people willing to pay for it.
> lame critiques of copyright law
Because it is an _artifical_ ARCHAIC law from the last millennium. ALL laws are _artificial_. If enough people see the stupidity in "owning" a long string of numbers, then outdated laws like copyright will eventually change. In Canada it is LEGAL to download music, because people see no difference in going to a library and listening to it, or borrowing the music from a friend.
Copyright was created by the _publishers_ to stop other publishers. This artificial control and power over stopping people from sharing information and art is on its way out. You can't stop people from sharing.
Welcome to the 21st century.
> How's that for mainstream? Wake up Blizzard. Make Diablo 3.
Whole heartidly agree!
I don't understand why Blizzard ignores D2 so much -- I mean, how many 7-year old games are there that are STILL being played actively?!
It really sucks that none of the bugs in the game will ever be fixed.
The only thing D2 _really_ needs is:
a) An option for the game creator to boot any one from games (why am I _forced_ to allow PKs into my public games?!)
b) Loot Rules (master looter, group, etc) like WoW (along with automatic gold pickup)
c) Ability to respec both skills and talents. Make it cost something, with a one delay.
d) Enable the organ set, runewords and Uber Diablo offline for us single players (without having to use a mod like the awesome PlugY)
e) Option to pay $5 month to play on "perferred" servers where there is NO LAG!!!!
Rest are just my "wishlist"...
f) An option to trade items without going into the game! The ability to stack gems would be nice too. Trading 40 gems stinks!
g) official muling support (Not everyone has 2+ computers and 2+ copies of the game) i.e. a SHARED stash like PlugY is perfect.
h) Talents above 20, but with the cost being the skill level / 10.
j) Make Gold actually worth something! Remove the stupid level restriction on characters and stash, and allow me to purchase set items once I have found them.
k) Fix the Ancients bypass glitch, OR allow us to create mules that are limited to level 9 and can enter any difficulty.
l) Make the Pali's Meditation aura useful again! When was the last time you ever saw a Medadin? Runewords killed a lot of interesting and unique builds. Not everyone wants a hammerdin or smite-adin!
I could post a ton more ideas, but that's enough for now... (Yes, I've played FAR too many hours on fine, fine, game)
Cheers