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Student in Court Over Suspension For YouTube Video
kozmonaut writes "A model student is in court this week over 40-day suspension for posting a mocking in-class video to YouTube of 'Mongzilla', a high school english teacher. The student is arguing he had First Amendment rights to publish the video, though it was filmed without permission in the classroom. 'Kent School District lawyer Charles Lind says the suspension had nothing to do with online criticism of the teacher. Rather, it was punishment for the disruption created by the students secreting a video camera into Joyce Mong's class and dancing in a mocking, disrespectful manner while her back was turned. "It's quite clear that the district is talking about conduct in the classroom and not the videotape," Lind said.'"
What online rights is this about? Your right to post videos on the internet without being held accountable for what they contain?
the school district is desperately backpeddling to find a good reason why they should be able to sue over a youtube clip. Even IF their given reason for the suspension is legitimate (which it isn't) 40 days is utterly disproportionate. 40 days is 8 school weeks which is over half a term. Even a ONE DAY suspension for getting up and dancing behind the teacher's back is disproportionate.
FGD 135
Seems like a perfectly reasonable suspension to me. If someone is stupid enough to post a video on a public forum, he should be ready to accept the consequences of somebody seeing that video. To take the situation to the extreme, if someone posts a video on Youtube of themselves killing somebody else, would you want a 1st amendment defense to hold for them.
Nothing is impossible. We just haven't quite worked out how to do it yet.
would consider a less than B average in high school as "model student" material. from tfa [quote] Cohen said her client has "no disciplinary record at school, and he is the model student" with a 2.97 grade-point average. [/quote]
This is what happens when you socialize young people in a setting where adult presence and guidance is nearly non-existent. You can't blame the students because their elders created an environment that is a more civilized version of Lord of the Flies.
Try getting a man on the street photo published sometime, you'll see.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
The teacher was in a public area and so has no expectation of privacy.
Isn't that what we keep getting told when the government put CCTV cameras up?
Mongzilla is still up on Youtube.
This is totally different than the students who videotaped their teacher being a complete asshole in class and posted it. They were punished for embarrassing the teacher and no other reason. If they were acting like the asshats (in class) that the article describes, then they deserved to be smacked. That said, 40 days is DAMN ridiculous. Students do not need to be bringing cameras to school in order to record themselves acting the fool, but suspending them for 8 weeks is nonsense. Stop with the knee-jerk reactions because kids are being kids. Suspend them for a day or two and hope they learn. Sheesh.
mmm...muffins
A 40 day suspension for making fun of a teacher? Christ almighty. Am I totally out of touch with current school policies? In my day kids got one week suspensions for smoking pot and getting in to fights.
40 days for a classroom disruption?
What the hell are they thinking? Back when I was in high school, we just got yelled at by the teacher, at worst sent to the principal. Maybe in the most extreme situation you'd get a week, but 40 days?
...if they just called him into the dean's room and gave him a quite "personal" lecture, he would maybe simply have removed it and nobody would've ever heard of that video, safe a few of his friends who already saw it.
Now, the whole world will watch it and, to add injury to insult, think the school is trying to throttle free speech.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Students have to study and learn and to show respect for their teachers. Any disrespectful behavior should be punished. A 40-day suspension however, is way to harsh.
If you hold them to their stated reason (or rather, excuse) for the punishment, it's for "disrupting the class." 40 days is several orders of magnitude too extreme. It's like executing somebody for spitting out their gum on the sidewalk.
No, they're punishing him for embarrassing the teacher (and exercising his rights), and now they're just trying to cover their asses.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Comment removed based on user account deletion
All kids involved in the video taping the teacher are morons. I remember when it was common sense not to do something so blatantly stupid and self-incriminating while in school. What ever happened to being able to sit for 45 minutes without acting like a jackass?
Why is the summary making it a point to say that that student was a model student? Do these model students have more rights than nerdy students, ugly students, non-bulumic students and fluncking students?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
668: Neighbour of the Beast
According to the article, all the kid did was post links to the video. I can understand suspending the kids who were causing trouble in the room, but also suspending people for just posting links (for the same amount of time, anyway) seems a little over the top.
Of course, as a teacher, if you're so oblivious of what's going on in your classroom that a kid can walk around behind you and give you bunny ears and make rude gestures, then this kind of thing is no surprise. I say that as a high school teacher, by the way. Bad classroom management creates way more problems than bad students.
I also thought it was funny that the video that was making fun of their english teacher had several spelling/grammar mistakes.
OK I can accept that they are just use the video as evidence of the wrong doing. I would like to see them justify 40 days suspension or even suspension since they did not seem to even notice until it was posted. One day in school tops, 40 days is outrageous. If the school cant deal with an upset student population then they do not know how to teach.
FYI my wife is a teacher I have worked around school systems for the last 10 years, no I'm not a school administrator.
No sir I dont like it.
to put someone on TV?(unless the filming was incidental, ie you were part of a crowd they were filming). At the very least, can't someone force a television station to not air a piece of footage if they do not sign a waiver? Does this also apply to youtube?
Monstar L
If you're going to do something illegal/stupid, don't film/photograph it. It may be cool, but eventually it will bite you in the ass.
This type of teacher-mockery should stay in the classroom (and occasionally in the principal's office) where it belongs. In my day there was no YouTube. I remember having to write an apology for my disruptive conduct. I wrote it out in a scroll, and unfurled it on bended knee to the offended teacher while my friend, as my squire, made tooting "hear ye" noises with her hands. I wanted the scroll back, but the teacher was amused enough that he wanted to keep it.
u-bend
If you read the article, it isn't even clear at this point that the kid who's being suspended was involved in producing the video, either by acting up in the classroom or by assisting in filming it. It sounds like all he did was post a link to it on his Myspace page, and the school is busting him because they want him to rat out the people who DID make it.
We're talking about a 40-day suspension. If the student had previous 10, 20 and 30 day suspensions for selling drugs to kindergarten students or something, then maybe a 40 day suspension would be more reasonable.
But if a student has never been disciplined before, jumping straight to a 40-day suspension for a first offense that is neither illegal nor dangerous seems a tad unreasonable.
So no, model students don't have more rights than non-model students, but model students probably deserve lighter punishment for the same offense than students who are constant sources of problems and have been disciplined several times before.
paintball
"What happens if all the students produce a video of this nature? Expell all of them?"
Yes. Disruption of the classroom is a common reason for detention, and in extreme cases, expulsion. As a first offense, it might be a bit much, but if the offenders are continuously causing problems, they deserve the punishments they receive, even harsh ones. Pandering to the crowd of "save the children" and "no child left behind" is a mistake we're beginning to see the results of now. It will only get worse if we keep it up.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
40 days suspension is excessive ! One or two days might get the message through of not showing disrespect but 40 is harsh. Leave it to zero tolerance policy....
Couldn't the student claim it's a parody and eliminate any chance of a case against said student?
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
1) Quick, get JT, this behavior was causes by that candy bar advertisement
2) People are still using MySpace???? WTF
3) If someone posts links to a video that you don't like, find out who made the film and posted it to the public forums.
4) if you want to suspend all people who post links to it, I suggest that the entire population of that school start posting links now. Let them suspend the entire school population for 40 days.
5) Have you seen that video... OMG, they have a right to complain IMO. There is enough evidence to support making fun of the teacher. Hell, late night comedians could make fun of this situation just looking at the video and take a no child left behind theme... wow.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
They would give them 40 days of summer school...
Orignator of the Miserable Failure Googlebomb
Before making a video criticizing your English teacher, proofread your titles.
Or, if you prefer,
before makeing a video critisizing you're english teacher, proof read you're titles.
I think this kid should have been paying more attention to the content of this English class, and less attention to making fun of the teacher.
"Your about to see"
"Imagine the worse smell"
Grammer and spelling kids, grammer and spelling.
After watching the video, I have to say, that's pretty worth a lengthy suspension. It wasn't just a stupid prank, it was premeditated and fairly vulgar. If I were a teacher, and the whole school had watched the video, I'd be pretty embarassed. From a legal sense, sure, he has a 1st amendment right to 'say' what he did...but they also have the right suspend him for however long they want. It's too bad they don't have the legal right to backhand him for it too.
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.
I'm still in high school and when a infraction such as this occurs we just get a talking to by the Net Admin here and maybe are parents are informed, I could understand a 3 day suspension but 40 day? That is just ridiculous. The dean should just sit him down have a talk and have the kid remove the video with respect.
Even a ONE DAY suspension for getting up and dancing behind the teacher's back is disproportionate. I agree one day for THAT would not be appropriate. Filming and the putting it on the net is something else. He planned a disruption and ridicule of his class. I don't care he did it, but getting punished is not a violation of his rights.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
40 days of suspension sounds about right. The video was not funny. I hope he gets sued for libel and emotional distress.
they might just have SHOT him instead.
Funny, I was never expelled for 40 days and I remember tossing my text book out the window in complete defiance. This kid posts a video of other kids dancing behind the teachers back, note he didn't record the video, and he gets expelled for 40 days. That's 10% of the school year, for postiing a video on the Internet outside of class.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
You obviously haven't watched the video. It shows him insulting the teacher in class by waving his hand at her as if she smells, holding up fingers behind her head, doing a lewd dance behind her - all in a row. It's a self-incriminating video, giving the school the evidence it needs to suspend him. That said, a 40-day suspension is obviously over the top.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
... what you think it means
"A model student... secreting a video camera into Joyce Mong's class and dancing in a mocking, disrespectful manner while her back was turned."
Recording someone without their knowledge or consent while also disrupting their teaching efforts in order to mock them isn't what I would call "model behavior." Usually that term is awarded based solely on GPA; it seems like it's more a matter of "smart enough not to get caught (until now)" rather than "acts in a respectable manner."
A two-faced honor student. Gee, never seen that before...
...expelled for 40 days. That's 10% of the school year...Really? A school year is longer than a calendar year?
According to comments on youtube, Gregory Requa did not post the video. He just added a link to it from his myspace page.
(Yes, I know this would include more than likely my own post as well, even though I checked for spelling. I can make a spelling error if you want. Really, I can. Please?)
I think I would have assigned a 50 page single space typed essay to the entire class, to be submitted in 3 week's time on the values of a good education or something along the lines of the course's subject.[1]
But really, students poking fun of a teacher has been around since day one. Teachers doling out the punishment to fit the crime has been around since day two- which brings me to the 2nd point- 40 days really is too long. A week, perhaps, but not 40 days.
[1] Before everyone gets their underwear in a knot, when I was in high school, my English teacher made her class read the entire collection of Shakespeare in 3 weeks with a 3 page report on each play and collection of sonnets.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
Hmm. They suspended a student for 40 days for disrupting class, in an incident that wasn't even noticed by anyone in authority until it was posted on YouTube and later reported on the news. But that's not all. The kicker? The suspended student wasn't even there!
d ge23.html
Suspension? Detention? Expulsion? Yeah, maybe for the administrators involved. For the student? Nada.
The judge, of course, accepted the school district's sophistry and let the suspension stand.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/316793_kentri
Agreed, the punishment (after reading the article) is a bit ridiculous, even if the kid did film it and cause the disruption. The article also mentions the teacher wasn't even aware she was filmed, so there couldn't have been too much disruption of the class, as far as she was concerned.
My point was that being punished for doing something wrong shouldn't be considered a bad thing. The saying "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" doesn't seem to hold in our society any more and it's frightening. People should be held accountable for their actions.
Whether or not the kid was actually involved is more important, in my opinion, than the amount of time the punishment was for, or why they set that time frame. From the article it certainly looks as though that fact is debatable.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
It's the "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" case. While the current case differs in that the video was taken on school property a favorable return for Frederick might go a long way in assisting the plaintiff win his case.
IANAL
Sure, but that would have absolutely nothing to do with the school. The teacher him/her self would have to pursue legal action against the child(ren) who were involved.
From my limited understanding (I didn't read TFA), the school suspended him for 40 days for in-class misconduct and he's the one pursuing legal action against the school to get the suspension lifted, or at least reduced.
FWIW, IMO 40 days is ridiculously excessive unless the kid has a long history full of lesser suspensions for related incidents.
ha! I tried the same thing....although it bounced off the window frame (I was way across the room) which is probably a good thing in hindsight since we were on the 3rd floor. I only got kicked out for the day though. I didn't find this video particularly entertaining either. Making fun of a fat teachers is a time honored tradition, but not very funny once you get past that age I guess.
ehem... _grammar_
I'm not usually one to do this, but you did misspell it twice... while trying to make fun of someone for misspelling things.
Friedmud
Refer to URL http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/316793_kentrid ge23.html .
The Federal Judge upheld the 40 day suspension.
The school should be embarrased to have her working there. The video points out she's unhygienic, the classroom looks disgusting, nobody respects her. That's just what I got in the first 60 seconds.
The school is alleging the video disrupted class - so that's why the student was suspended. So how disrupted was the class that they had to find the video on YouTube to know about it? Did the teacher not mention how 'disrupted' her class was? Ok then fire her.
Allowing this to go on is a disgusting example of a school board as a whole.
---
Bride of Mongzilla?
Ace
This kid brought a video camera in to class, videotapped his teacher posted a very degrading and insulting video on the internet. Nothing on that video shows the teacher doing anything wrong, (except possibly the lack of organisation).
But what an asshole of a child! I think 40 days suspension isn't enough for this kind of behaviour, he should have been expelled. How do you think this teacher would feel? I wonder how this video has affected her life?
If some pissy little kid made a video like this about me, I'd be after more than expolsion. Monetary compensation maybe.
Having said all that, the video was very funny. Which only makes it much much worse.
I think in this case the severity of the suspension is directly related to it's press attention. Especially when you consider that this kid appears to be trying to graduate and stay out of trouble due to his record.
For some reason I refuse to use either spell check or the spacebar properly.
This kid may as well have his parents take him out of school and start homeschooling. He could have an entire year of homeschooling done in that time.
With a good lawyer, he may be able to threaten them back with cruel and unusual punishment.
Oh wait, I forgot, you loose all rights when you step foot in a school...
arrrg, (like a pirate)
The best way to eliminate classroom disruption would be to eliminate the disruptive students. An electric chair in every school would promote good behavior and help with overcrowding.
Badass Resumes
A 2.97 in High School just means that you show up to class most of the time.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
...39 day suspension for being an idiot.
Ok, I think a lot of kids have had snide remarks or done disrespectful things when angered by a teacher/authority figure... but to then go and tell the WORLD that they did it? This is right up there with the knobs who rob a place and leave their wallet at the scene.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Based on the math, I'd say the parent poster went to a school that had an extremely short school year.
Did it take anyone else a while to realize that Monzilla was a play off of Godzilla, not Mozilla?
The ultimate goal of science is to unify all forces of nature to a single law that can be silk-screened onto a T-shirt.
Did you seriously just say that if the teacher wasn't bothered, there wasn't a disruption in the class?
Schools don't prevent disruptions to help the teachers have a nice day. They do it to foster a learning environment for the students. If 3 or 4 of the students are doing something majorly disruptive like dancing behind the teacher's back, -nobody- is learning at the point, and probably not for a while afterwards.
The punishment may not fit the crime, but I don't remember a time in school when it -did-, so that's nothing new. I was once written up for not doing my work in class (I had finished already) and when the teacher tried to rescind, wasn't allowed. Why? The vice-principal didn't like me. He actually had the nerve to say 'I just wanted to see if you'd show up' when I got there. I still had to do clean-up duty for something I didn't even do. Oh yeah, fair.
I've always seen expulsion as a way to let the kids that didn't WANT to be in school, not be. If they want to pass after that, they're going to have to work their little butts off just to pass. They won't have time to disrupt the class any more when they get back. (Nevermind what they'll have to deal with from their parents.) Nobody I knew ever had it happen to them, though. They cared about their grades too much.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
You know, if I was a teacher and my name was "Mong", I would change my damn name.
Similarly, do not go into teaching under your original name if your name is "Tard", "Spaz" or "Ho".
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
You don't need model releases for CGI monsters in films.
I learned this from trying to sue someone selling a property to me who didn't want to sell to me. I had a tape recording of the conversation, but couldn't use it as evidence because it was illegal in CA to make a recording w/o both party's permission.
There's no "First Ammendment" protection here.
subject line says it all...
668: Neighbour of the Beast
I think you need to read again. What I said was "so there couldn't have been too much disruption of the class, as far as she was concerned."
I'm not arguing your point about a "learning environment" because I agree. My point was: sure the kids knew about the disruption, but I doubt in a class where the teacher was that clueless, disruption was anything out of the ordinary. Your argument was my point exactly, that the teacher was incompetent and thus the disruption, probably wasn't much of one anyway. We've all sat through classes that were a mandatory waste of our time. From what the article implied, this was one of those classes.
As for the rest of your comment, I was suspended for 3 days because someone else hit me. I didn't retaliate (it wasn't worth the effort) and went directly to the office and waited for the teacher (who had seen it) to arrive and report it. I still got suspended for fighting. At another school I had to make an official apology for cursing in front of (not at) a teacher whom I thought was a student because he was so young. I was speaking to a friend, after school, in the parking lot, but I still got in trouble.
Punishment is part of growing up, and it's as much a learning tool as anything else in school. It teaches us tact, and common sense about when to keep our mouths shut. It teaches us about consequences for our actions, but that doesn't mean it's a reasonable thing we shouldn't argue or disagree with when it's appropriate to do so. Do I think the kids involved should be punished? Yes. Should it be this severe? No.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
"secreting a video camera into Joyce Mong's class" What pore did that come out of? That must have hurt.
Mainly, that the punishment must fit the crime. 40 days suspension for doing what that kid did? Bullshit. I hope he sues, gets a huge pay-day, and the school board and the town feel the budget pinch for years to come.
Blar.
Second, according to the article, the suspended student may not have been involved in the filming at all. He's not the student seen making 'rabbit ears' behind the teacher, and you can't know if he was the student running the camera.
He was targeted by the school board because of a link to the video on his myspace page.
From the article:
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
"... I'd be pretty embarassed. "
Being embarrasses for not having comtroll in your class room is no reason to suspend the student.
However, the student going out of his way to screw around in class surely does warrent a suspension....although it seems overly lengthy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If I'd pull something like this at my job or on a Professor in College I'd expect to either get fired or at least severely punished. High School should set a similar standard of what's acceptable / unacceptable in society. A joke is one thing, but this strikes me as pretty strong.
My problem with 45 days is that he looses a lot of school work that might send him into a downward spiral. No need to ruin his education. But he should get punished, maybe lengthy community service or so (I'm not a fan of after school either -- it's usually students vegetating around). As a principle I'd also address the school as a whole and state that behavior won't be tolerated. I'd say something along the lines that I expect teachers and pupils to treat each other with respect. Maybe I'm naive, but that's my idea.
man... what is this a remedial class? I don't see any structure there at all. To top it off the class is filthy and distracting.
Gee.. when I was in high school (graduated in '81) at least the classes were clean, and there was structure there. If this is the majority of what kids are experiencing today no wonder the U.S. is going down the tubes! We got to do something about this. Our future depends on it. I guess this is why I sent my kids to a Catholic k-12 and high school. Sure they've got the typical "guilt
thing" engrained in them but hell... at least my kids are pretty bright! And my wife and I made our kids a priority. So parents,
watch the video. Would you want your kids to attend an english class like this? terrible.
The same reactionary school that handcuffs its students uppity 11-year-old black kids for "rowdy behavior."
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
1) You're a kid, you don't have citizenship, you don't really have rights.
2) Harassment is not covered by the first amendment.
Yeah.. but it is obvious from the video that this woman is not fit to teach. She's not very orginized and there's no structure to that class. I believe this is why the video was created, to get it across that the students wasted 180 days and learned absolutely nothing. If the room was clean, the lesson plan structured, and the kids causing the ruckus kicked out of class, then I would say
she can teach. I didn't see that. my wife is a teacher, I know what has to go into lesson plans, structure, etc. There was none
of those skills displayed here.
I have to disagree... If the reason is truly "Disrupting the class", the suspension should have been handed out that day. If the teacher didn't notice the disruption before the video was discovered, just how disruptive could it have been? Certainly not enough to justify a 40-day suspension. Are the kids brats? Sure. Does that remove them of their 1st amendment rights? Um, no.
The teacher, and the school seem to have mishandled this... If I were there, I'd have just made damn sure to make note of who the kids were, and take measures to catch them in the act next time..... *then* suspend them, with a real reason that doesn't make the school look like it's run by the people that can't grasp the basic freedoms that I used to think schools were supposed to teach their students to appreciate, along with the 3 R's.....
Just a thought...
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Well, now you know which book he threw out the window! And if you repeat the grade, then yes, in a way it is.
What?
I hate you! Just because you can type faster than me, doesn't mean you have to rub it in :-)
What?
I know the student personally, and i know the movie personally...i watched it being filmed and parts of it being edited. I cant tell you that Greg is being used has a scapegoat because the school district needs to punish someone in this matter to set a presidence...Greag wasnt invlolved in filming of the thing AT ALL...he was coersed into saying what he said. Greg is probably aking the fall for this...and if he does its for something he didnt do.
just remember this:
I hope he sues, gets a huge pay-day, and the school board and the town feel the budget pinch for years to come.
Laywers serve their clients. A client can decide to go for massive damages, or can refrain from doing so.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
In the state of Washington, only one party has to consent to a recording. That said, this probably doesn't fall under wiretap regulations. The student could make an argument that a school is a public place and as such people do not have a reasonable expectation to privacy (i.e., they have no reason to think they won't be recorded in some way), but he'd probably get trumped by the numerous rulings that state that schools have special exceptions to the publi spaces regulations.
Either way, forcing the kid to miss approximately 20% of the school year for this is ridiculous.
Suspension? These criminals should be doing 5 years of jail and a fine of $250K each for their copyright infringements. They obviously didn't read the U.S. Copyright Law {Title 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq., Title 18 U.S.C. Section 2319} contract they signed when they opened up their CDs to import music into this little work of art. Burn them at the stake!
It must've been a math book he tossed out the window.
But if they are partly paid by the taxpayer, then the taxpayer is part owner.
A state school is, in any case, a public place that specifically allows children, parents and other members of the public in. So in what way is a scholl place not public? That you can't hold a rally in it? Well, you can't hold a rally in the main street either, but the public street is still public for the CCTV operations.
Just wait until the RIAA gets on them for using unlicensed music in their video.
This isn't about free speech, it's about teenage stupidity. We've all been there. The only difference in today's world it's easy enough to film yourself doing something dumb, providing irrefutable evidence. And who wouldn't want to jump on the free speech bandwagon? I hear it's an easy way to get out of trouble. Certainly the students are frustrated with a weird teacher, messy classroom, and I'd imagine a substandard education. But that's reality. Not everyone can get into a nice school or be assured the most professional instruction possible. If anything they should be prepared that their future co-workers or boss will be just like Mrs. Mong. The activity in the video proved the cameraman and his accomplice weren't conducting themselves properly and a suspension for both is in order. 40 days is too much, but it's an administrator's job to over-react. A face to face meeting between the parents and school officials would iron that out quickly I'd imagine. A three day suspension and an essay/aplogy letter are all that's needed.
Seriously, reminds me of the Everglades or something. One stupid and, frankly, unentertaining video produced while the teacher's back was turned in one day really did a number to that school environment, eh? Come on, that's just a shallow and not too creative excuse for maintaining an authoritarian power-structure. It's not like he physically threatened or harmed anyone, nor prevented others from listening to or learning from the teacher. The "school environment" seems penty intact, and is just used to punish someone when they can't punish someone any other way. There was recently a Supreme Court case, IIRC, where a student was charged with "disrupting the mission of a school" and suspended for posting a "bong hits for jesus" sign after hours and off school property!
They think they own the kids that attend their schools, and they sure act that way, and things like this only reinforce it. Another poster above put it well that this is not how you train students to grow up to be good citizens of a democracy; this is how you acclimate them to autocracy.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
I'm a long time out of high school, but if this happened to a friend of mine, I'd do the same thing, but this time, I'd make sure I wasn't caught.
All you need is time to think, and student have plenty of that.
Besides, any teacher that didn't bathe deserved scorn heaped upon her nationally.
i tend to agree .
The punishment is way to hard , and stupid too.
What's he going to learn from being expelled ? nothing .
A good punishment would be making him write a paper on why he did it , and the consequences of his actions . he will learn a lot more from that .
about the 'disprution' . how long did he record the video ? if it's 5 minutes or so , it's hardly a distraction , but i'm sure it will have been a lot af fun . and school should be a little fun too .
Or would you prefer boring childeren , who never do anything wrong in their lives , living like slaves to society ?
Slipping shoelaces ?
"It's quite clear that the district is talking about conduct in the classroom and not the videotape," Lind said. '"
Okay, this doesn't make sense. How can this NoT be about the online posting, for without it, they would not have known. Thus, no class-room conduct disruption.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
I'll just stick with watching old episodes of "Welcome Back Kotter"
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Um, fine, but a student doesn't disrupt class by letting off a little steam. This is good for the students. The lady had NO clue this happened. It's not like they turned the school upside down by mocking that she smelled.
You have a big ego problem if you think that no one can make fun of you. You're just ASKING for people to mock you.
You were doing really well, and I agreed for the vast majority with your sentiment, right up until your left-field dig involving the Communist Manifesto. Have you ever read the thing? I'm no Communist (in fact, I think Communism is for the most part damn silly), but nowhere in the CM does it encourage people to be sheeple; quite the opposite, it is a panphlet encouraging people to revolt! I realy can't stand it when people confuse the quasi-fascist "communist" states and their histories and policies with the actual doctrines and documents describing Communism. It's the Political Scientist in me, I guess.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Oh how I wish I had this technology when I was a kid!
I've had a teacher who kicked me across a room in grade 5 and still teaches to this day, I've had several very cruel teachers who liked to target and mock individual students who didn't deserve it, I've one who threw things at us, or threw chairs and briefcases across the room in angry screaming fits, another who threw my personal property in the garbage just because it wasn't a book and pencil, I've had teachers who were just miserable assholes in general and you had to wonder why the hell they were teaching.
In general they got away with it because their classroom is their private fiefdom and administrators turned a blind eye to their behaviour. Every one of these f*ckers deserved exposure, teachers have been getting away with this for too long so I totally applaud this behaviour - the kids should have been rewarded.
I agree that it was a premeditated and fairly vulgar prank, although I don't think those circumstances automatically allow the school district to suspend the kid. It seems like the district really needs to address the issue of the teacher's competence. However, simulating a sex act behind a teacher's back, especially if it's a male student and a female teacher/student, is justifiably a physical threat. A high school student with a 2.97 GPA is hardly a "model student", and the spelling and grammatical errors in the video show that the (other) student who produced it are dumb.
He's going to court over a suspention from scool of 40 days?
Are you kidding me?
apart from the fact if he deserved it or not.
I woe the school who has to fight court battles over stuff like this. It would be a reason for me to kick his entire family from school. Just too big a risk for the stability of the school.
I hope his parents get their asses kicked by the judge. That will make a valuable lesson for both the student *and* the parents.
Unbelievable
There is an update to this story. The judge ruled that the video wasn't protected speech. "The First Amendment does not extend its coverage to disruptive, in-class activity of this nature." In the end, the judge wrote, Requa "failed to establish or raise serious questions that his punishment is for his protected free speech and not for the classroom conduct of which he is accused." He got a 40 day suspension along with two others who were involved in the caper. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/316793_kentrid ge23.html
Translation of the judge's remarks: "You're a kid, I'm an authority figure. You mocked a fellow authority figure, so I'm coming down on you".
Since he didn't make the video, didn't post the video, and wasn't featured in the video, it's impossible to logically conclude that the punishment was for anything but linking to the video.
What else do you expect from Kentridge students? (Kentwood, class of 1990. Go Conquerers!)
I tried to watch a couple of minutes of it. It's not very funny or amusing. Maybe if I were EMO, 17, and went to this school i might find it funny.
Slashdot = -1 Redundant, Asperger, kdawson FUD, Libertarian, and Linux
We're not allowed to RTFA. ;)
No, you're right. In that case, they are even bigger idiots. Again, if it had been him doing the goofing off, 40 days would still be drastic overkill. This is even worse, however.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
sometimes, it really does feel that way
The first point that I think the majority of posters have missed. The kid in question alleges that he had no part in the production of the video, he only posted a link to it on his myspace. While I agree the video is childish and I am sure embarrassing for the teacher, these are high school kids(no offense). I recall doing more than a few stupid and childish things in high school. Should they suffer punishment, sure. I think a 40 day suspension is excessive for what amounts to technologically advanced name calling. I also find it interesting how quickly we can vilify a high school student for posting a link to the video, but what about all of the "news" sites that are now hosting/linking the video? Does a link on one high school students myspace page generate more or less hits than a news story making the rounds on internet news sites?
If you can't get in the place (cos it's not public)? Just hand around outside (which, oddly enough is also public and definitely so, yet hanging around there will get you moved on, so being restricted when there doesn't seem to mean it isn't public any more).
So does the school have a Access License? Some sort of contract on entry that must be signed? No? So it's public. Especially to the FRIGGIN PUPILS AND TEACHERS!!!
Ok, I asked for that. Actually, it was global studies (bah).
should have been ~10%, reasoning: 9mo. ~ 10mo., and 40 days ~1mo.
Here's the math. 40/(365 * .75) = .1411 or 14.11 % of the school year.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Can't believe I typoed that. :) .1461 or 14.61% ~15%.
Should be
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Hey if a teacher can't teach you obviously drug the child.
If the staff can't maintain discipline you obviously turn the school into a police state.
So when children that are OWED an education get a mess of a human being instead of a real teacher it's obvious you need to suspend the students.
Children learn best by example so all they would learn from THAT is to be unhealthy, incapable of hygiene and bad at their jobs.
It's the students that got slapped in the face and insulted by having this woman pawned off on them.
I'm sure the bleeding hearts will whine that she has emotional problems..well they're her personal problems they have no business in the class room.
Your math is still flawed as weekends cannot be counted in those 40 days. 40 school days is 8 weeks (5 days/wk), which is 1 week short of an entire semester (1 school year is 36 weeks, 9 weeks per semester), thus it would be ~22% of the school year.
I thought I was going to be running out of steam, and was even beginning to realise that 1) we agreed on quite a lot and 2) I was beginning to come around to your position. But... "Hitler technically never physically did anything. He just spoke....very very well." Godwin! hooray! I win!
FGD 135
He was targeted by the school board because of a link to the video on his myspace page. So he was an accessory. The main thing that bothers me is that is seems that this is the only kid who got in trouble. If that was my son, he'd have hell to pay. One of the most important things a parent needs to teach their offspring is respect. And that video shows a complete lack of it.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
In the scrolling text at the beginning of the video -
"Imagine the worse smell"
"Multiply by 100"
"And your close"
"to the smell of her class"
This "model student" must have been absent the day they discussed "worse" vs. "worst" and "your" vs. "you're".
along with the 3 R's.....
It's 4 R's. Readin, ritin, rithmetic, and rong spellin.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
I should have recorded my English teacher this year to expose her incompetence. She constantly misspelled "prologue" as "prolouge." She gave improper definitions of common words (defined a mute as a person who cannot hear and defined the villain as the foil) even though no one ever asked for said definitions. She called a documentary on King Arthur his autobiography. She told us that she thought it was odd that radio plays didn't have stage cues, because she believed they were supposed to be read aloud. The list never ends. Not necessarily in the case mentioned in the article, but sometimes, teachers really are terrible.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Ok, I think I'm going to give up on it today.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
In my home state, the minimum length was 180 school days per year. That puts a 40-[school]day suspension at about 22% of the year. That figure is misleading, however, because missing 40 school days in a row pretty much condemns you to flunking everything and having to repeat the grade.
Don't worry, everyone has those days...
Then I saw the video.
Sorry, this isn't the Holden Caulfield of Kentridge High. The filmmaker is a Beavis. He's one of Mike Judge's droolers in Idiocracy. Ah, the price of making video cameras cheap and easy to operate!
As far as can be told, the chief offenses of the good lady Mong are:
-- She smells bad to the noses of teen boys who wear sleeveless athletic gear;
-- She has a fat ass;
-- She hasn't spent her days ordering the books on her classroom shelves as anal retentively as their mothers have tidied the Reader's Digest tomes and workout DVDs in their homes.
Wotta J'accuse!
This is a very nasty video that merely intends to hurt. It brutalizes what appears to be a tired, unappreciated woman, a disheveled and disrespected human being whose thankless job it is to babysit these spoiled shits.
Suspend the kid and push him in the direction of the nearest Wal-Mart: his bright future awaits.
And it rather sounds like you're a kid of the same age with that "logic."
Seems to me the judge is simply saying that the litigant did not meet his burden
of proof and therefore the judge has no recourse but to leave well enough alone.
As for the chip on your shoulder about authority figures, get over it Mr. McQueen.
In particular, I'd recommend you try working with some of today's youth. Are they
all monsters? No, but enough of them are that you could almost mistake a pack of
junior high students for kindergartners with cell phones. Of course, this is coming
from someone who didn't appreciate the incredible childishnes of his classmates in
his own recent youth either.
Were that I say, pancakes?
Hear hear! Lol.
No, it's nothing to do with that. It's that we were both posting a joke about which book you threw out. And he beat me to the punch by only 14 comments, less than a minute. In this case, several others were thing the same thing. It's a mind reading thing. I get nailed by that a lot. Either I'm a powerful transmitter, or the other folks are sensitive receivers...wait, that's not what I meant. Uh, they're really tuned in...yeah, that's it. I'm turning in my tinfoil hat for the pro model, made out of lead.
What?
I should like to think that in my old school, a pretty strict school in the UK [we're talking about 35 years ago] just his behaviour in class would have seen him either thrashed or expelled, i.e., just for mocking the teacher, he could have expected either one of those punishments.
... that's why my son goes to a private school where, hopefully, like-minded parents have brought up their children to be respectful.
And, you know what, we didn't get class disruption, we all learned, and we had mutual respect - not through fear, but because it was the normal thing to feel for one another. When you're liberal enough to start the balling rolling, who knows where it'll stop!
Sadly, most UK classes probably have the same problems as this kid's does
This 'child' has got what he deserves IMHO - just hope he and his classmates learns form it!
Grammer and spelling kids, grammer and spelling.
Ha-ha!
I'm a big tall mofo.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
And you are acting like a child... probably are.
Nope. pushing 40. Just tired of morons who are way too willing to give up rights to tin-pot dictators.
Why not?
Well, mostly because of how public schools are funded. Since most public schools get federal funding, they are covered by federal laws about a student's right to an education.
So he was an accessory.
That wasn't shown to any certitude, according to the article (and the quote from the judge).
The main thing that bothers me is that is seems that this is the only kid who got in trouble. If that was my son, he'd have hell to pay. One of the most important things a parent needs to teach their offspring is respect. And that video shows a complete lack of it.
Well, the "kid" was 18, so it's possible he wasn't even living at home and you'd have had shit-all to say about it. And as I said, the kid in the video wasn't the kid in court, so the video didn't show a lack of respect by the kid who was suspended. Unless you count linking to a video you think is funny shows disrespect. Not to mention, from the video it didn't appear that the teacher did much to earn any respect.
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Nope. pushing 40. Just tired of morons who are way too willing to give up rights to tin-pot dictators. I'm not certain that any rights where lost. Not enough info. and too many unknowns. Why not?
Well, mostly because of how public schools are funded. Since most public schools get federal funding, they are covered by federal laws about a student's right to an education. and what about the rights of the other students in the classroom who want to learn but are denied that by this type of behavior. People always forget about the rest of the class. So he was an accessory.
That wasn't shown to any certitude, according to the article (and the quote from the judge). True... The main thing that bothers me is that is seems that this is the only kid who got in trouble. If that was my son, he'd have hell to pay. One of the most important things a parent needs to teach their offspring is respect. And that video shows a complete lack of it.
Well, the "kid" was 18, so it's possible he wasn't even living at home and you'd have had shit-all to say about it. Somehow I doubt that. But really, if my kid did not learn respect by 18, then I have failed. I would say that these kids parents failed in that task. My son who is 15, is a pretty good kid even with the normal puberty angst. And as I said, the kid in the video wasn't the kid in court, so the video didn't show a lack of respect by the kid who was suspended. Unless you count linking to a video you think is funny shows disrespect. If he thought it was funny, then yes, that itself is a lack of respect. Not to mention, from the video it didn't appear that the teacher did much to earn any respect. But her comment sure did. She was upset because she did not want all the students to be tarred with this action because most student, in her opinion, were good kids.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
There are plenty of racist little burgs in this country that would happily outlaw black people if not for state and federal courts pressuring them otherwise.
Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs...
Blar.
The situation with the kid does not involve a Constitutional issue - he can still say whatever he please. The situation you propose (hypothetically I'm sure) is a classic equal protection issue.
:)
That's what I'm saying
Don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon.